Kenneth Copeland - God's Word Is Truth
Kenneth Copeland: Hello everybody. I'm Kenneth Copeland and I'm here again today with Dr. Professor Greg Stephens. I don't even know how to describe it anymore. We have had... The Lord has helped us and to truly show that the Lord could truly unveil, Hebrews 13, verse 20, Now the God of peace that brought again from the dead, our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the ever lasting covenant. Now, like you said, how long has everlasting.
Greg Stephens: That's everlasting. Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight through Jesus Christ.
Kenneth Copeland: That was his, that was his purpose in the first place.
Greg Stephens: Get's you right back where we were. And we've done that in Christ Jesus. And now, you know this you've, you've heard this, you know, you are as righteous as Jesus. You're as loved as he is loved. The father loves you as much as he loves Jesus.
Kenneth Copeland: If he doesn't. Yeah. Calvary was a murder, not a sacrifice.
Greg Stephens: Oh man. Even hearing you say that that's trampling on the precious blood.
Kenneth Copeland: Yes.
Greg Stephens: This is why you can't, and people get mad. You can't say I'm a sinner saved by grace.
Kenneth Copeland: I was a sinner. I got saved by grace. And now I'm the righteousness of God.
Greg Stephens: That's it. To say anything else is to really, that's a strong word. I can't think of another word. It's almost to blaspheme what he's done. Yes. Once you have knowledge of it.
Kenneth Copeland: Once you have knowledge of it of course. And, and, and once you come to that place where it becomes necessary for your life and then to turn around on it. Oh, come on, man. Jesus will say that won't he? He said, any man puts his hand to the plow and turns back is not... What? Fit for the kingdom.
Kenneth Copeland: That's right.
Greg Stephens: Oh, I want to be fit. I I'm so thankful that he...
Kenneth Copeland: Don't cast that confidence away. Don't treat it like that. Don don't don't. That's nothing. Don't do that? You be casting in your faith away like it's nothing. Hey, it's what made you, you and the kingdom of God.
Greg Stephens: That's what Judas did isn't it?
Kenneth Copeland: That's exactly what he did.
Greg Stephens: Just cast away. It was a light thing to him. I always wonder why Judas carried, this is something that's been rolled around in me, I don't have the answer for it yet. Judas. Why was he carrying the money bag when you have, when you have a tax collector there, that's skilled in that. Looks to me like Matthew or Levi, Levi would have been the guy to do that.
Kenneth Copeland: He couldn't. It already had been prophesied.
Greg Stephens: That's exactly right.
Kenneth Copeland: It already had been said. David said it.
Greg Stephens: That's right. Yes he did. Yes he did. And in looking at that, that whole thing with Matthew, the only thing I could get at having been a pastor of our own congregation before and now an under shepherd, uh, makes you wonder, makes you think the way you look at somebody's credentials now if you're going to hire in staff or whatever. Cause, well that would've been the perfect guy to me, but no, you've got to listen to the Holy ghost. The Holy ghost said separate Barnabas and Saul for the work in which I call them.
Kenneth Copeland: That's the only credential that is the credential. I don't care what you did.
Greg Stephens: He's going to choose this Pharisee of Pharisees name. Paul, Saul of Tarsus. He's going to choose this guy. Really? Here's what it is. He chooses him to finish his work to the Gentile. I've always wondered. Jesus, why didn't you... Your from Judah, the tribe of Judah? Why didn't you set your, your headquarters up in Jerusalem where the temple was? Why'd you go up there to Galilee? Because that was written as well. A light to the Gentiles who sat in darkness.
Kenneth Copeland: And it says he'll move to Capernaum. Before he ever moved to Capernum. It said, he's going to move.
Greg Stephens: He will withdraw to the Galilee. It says.
Kenneth Copeland: And he was not called the Nazareen, but because he was under an Nazerite right now. No, he was in Nazareen because he came from Nazareth.
Greg Stephens: That's exactly right.
Kenneth Copeland: And people have fouled that all up.
Greg Stephens: And when John got arrested, it says he withdrew to the Galilee. I believe that's in Matthew. Some 14 times in that book, it talks about he withdrew to the Galilee. That became his place to withdraw. And he was right on the crossroads of humanity and,
Kenneth Copeland: and right on the Lake.
Greg Stephens: Beautiful Lake house.
Kenneth Copeland: Big house.
Greg Stephens: Yes he did.
Kenneth Copeland: When they excavated it, they thought it was Peter's because it was so big. But then, and the scripture tells you, it was Jesus, right? His house was big enough that when all, when they came in there from Jerusalem and, and all the different parts of...
Greg Stephens: Because it sits on the crossroads.
Kenneth Copeland: And, and, and where they broke up the roof, it says he was in the house. It was Jesus' house. Amen. When the guy broke up the roof...
Greg Stephens: I've been there. It has a great view of the sea of Galilee. He had a great view.
Kenneth Copeland: Well, he lived on the lake brother. Yes, he did. He's a very wealthy man.
Greg Stephens: Yes, he was. Still is. And I'm in...
Kenneth Copeland: So am I.
Greg Stephens: So am I. Because why? We're in covenant with him.
Kenneth Copeland: And I live on the Lake brother. Yes I do.
Greg Stephens: Glory to God. I'm putting it all together here, now. Get your face out there for your Lake house. I just did. So he represented, everything I hear my father say, do, I do it. He didn't say anything beyond it. He didn't stop short of it. He honored. And that's what that whole Seder meal is. We've gone through this on these weeks are it's it's um, it's honoring the tradition of teaching your children so that they'll know.
Kenneth Copeland: He gave, he gave them right there in the 10th chapter, John, which was in that mailer 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th chapter of John was all, all there, right in the middle of the night with his men.
Greg Stephens: Yes. Ordains him into the ministry. It's an ordination service.
Kenneth Copeland: And I'm going to turn over there.
Greg Stephens: John... Is that 13?
Kenneth Copeland: John 14. And then there's something in 16 that is...
Greg Stephens: I love the way he starts that.
Kenneth Copeland: Verse 10. Believest thou not that I am in the father and the father in me, the words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself, but the father that dwells in me, he does the works. Now up until then. I'm seeing them as the he's doing this. He's doing that. Yeah. Well he said, I'll come and heal him. He had every right to say that. But now he revealed him, Sergio. He tells them, Michelle. Cynthia? He tells them. And then he says, I'm sending him to you. And the works that I do shall you do also. He's setting it up. They're just sitting there, just drinking in every word.
Greg Stephens: My favorite one, right after that, he says the works that I do, you shall do greater works. Look at this. Verse 14, if you shall ask anything in my name, I'll do it.
Kenneth Copeland: That's almost change as good as the 21st person. He, that has my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loves me. And he, that loves... It's those in the word that his word is their life. My father will love him and I will manifest myself to him. Now, then. The most startling words, Greg, I believe I've ever read. I don't have any time to read this. I read it over and over and over and over and over and over. And I get the covenant thrill at that that I call going widescreen. And just suddenly, it's just like this. 13th verse. How be it? When he, the spirit of truth is come. He will guide you into all truth for, he shall not speak of himself, but what so ever, he shall hear that shall he speak. He will show you things to come. He will glorify me for, he will receive of mine. He will receive of mine and show it unto you. All things that the father has is mine. Therefore I said, he'll take a... Everything that God has, man. Everything he knows. Everything he has. He'll show it to you. And you can do it, he just got through saying you could do it.
Greg Stephens: The beginning of the end, all of it in between. Okay. So you ready for one? Let me give you, let me give you one in Hebrew. The word for the word for truth and Hebrew is ehmet. It takes the first letter, the exact middle letter. So Alef-mem-tav is how you spell Ehmet. Now in the paleo Hebrew symbols, you have the strength, the bold blood of bulls and ghosts can not take away. But a bit last letter is the cross. That middle letter is Mem and it looks like royalty. It looks like a crown with water. Out of your middle, your belly shall flow rivers. You got the father, the son and the Holy ghost, all right there in that word of truth. And I tie it every time I say this, the top to the bottom and all the way around the middle.
Kenneth Copeland: There it is.
Greg Stephens: Truth. My word is truth.
Kenneth Copeland: Everything he has.
Greg Stephens: That's my covenant.
Kenneth Copeland: Everything. He knows all of his wisdom, all of his knowledge is available through the Holy spirit. And it belongs to us. It belongs to us.
Greg Stephens: It belongs to us. And so we have a covenant responsibility with that.
Kenneth Copeland: And Greg, I'm totally convinced of this. I don't care what you need. I don't care. What kind of problem you have. You use those verses of scripture right there in that covenant meal. Yes. And you pray in tongues long enough, you can find out anything. You can find it out. You can find out what to do. You can find out how to win this thing. You can find out what belongs to you. Amen. Oral Roberts, my father in the spirit, the way he built Oral Robert University, he went out there on that corner.
Greg Stephens: On Lewis street there.
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah, just a vacant lot. They owned it. And it came time to build a university. The first thing he did was take all that he had and, and, and, and money and everything. And he and Evelyn Roberts went before the board and laid it all on the table. He said, I'm sowing everything I have before we, before we build this. Put the seed in the ground before you do anything. And he would stand out there on that property for hours and hours and pray in the spirit, get in the spirit and begin to interpret that. And God gave him the plans and he saw it in the spirit, praying in the spirit and then begin to speak in English. And God showed it to him. That's the way he built Oral Robert's university. The buildings. That's where the plans came from. That sound like David to you? David in the temple.
Greg Stephens: Absolutely. Right. Absolutely right. Now he didn't get to build it David, but, Oral Robert's got to build it. Yeah. And I hear, wow, we're on this side of the covenant with that.
Kenneth Copeland: Yes, sir. That's the reason Satan fights speaking and ministering in tongues more than he fights healing, more than he fights wealth, more than he fights anything in the Bible. It's tongues that just rip him apart because he can't figure out what in the world you're saying.
Greg Stephens: It's a mystery to him.
Greg Stephens: He cannot understand it. Now the 13th chapter of first Corinthians is the biggest chapter in the new Testament because it's the love chapter, right? Even though I speak with a tongue of men and angels and have not love... Now, you go through there and it just, he does it on purpose. He brought the, the gifts manifestation of the spirit in the 12th chapter. And then he takes each one of those and wipes them out because we're not speaking in love, but there is a reverse side of that. Speaking with the tongues of men and angels in love, you can find out anything, anything.
Greg Stephens: Total access to everything.
Kenneth Copeland: And you go right back to this verse right here.
Greg Stephens: I was thinking about why Moses couldn't go in and, and why, how did he miss it? How could he have seen God and miss it? He didn't have the Holy spirit. So he, he was ruled by his emotion more than he was ruled by... Because he had just received the word and all. And he was real, well...
Kenneth Copeland: Let me, let me, let me clarify that someone had done it. He had the Holy spirit, but he's not born again.
Greg Stephens: That's what I'm saying.
Kenneth Copeland: Nobody got born again until Jesus went to the cross and was glorified and then the new birth came into being.
Greg Stephens: Now you could access by faith. The Syrophoenician woman did it. David did it. Abraham did it. Sarah did it. You could access the blessing of our covenant in that day by faith.
Kenneth Copeland: Well, and cause Moses wrote that, the blessing of Abraham.
Greg Stephens: Yes, absolutely. Right.
Kenneth Copeland: He wrote it. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. He saw it all. Even though it a hundred years before him, he saw it all. When he got, he asked for God's glory, can I just show it to you in Exodus 33, he asked for something that was really in our time. And I'm going to show you where not walking in your covenant can be dangerous if you're not careful. Um, Exodus. Well, let me start with verse 11 and the Lord spake unto Moses face to face as a man, speaketh unto his friend. There's friend. And he turned again into the camp, but his servant, Joshua, the son of nun, a young man departed, not out of the tabernacle, going over here now. Um, verse 17. And the Lord said to Moses, I will do this thing also that thou has spoken where you found grace in my sight. And I know thee by name. And he said, I beseech thee, show me thy glory. That's what Moses asked of him. Verse 19. And he said, I'll make my goodness pass before the inoperable...
Kenneth Copeland: Oh my goodness.
Greg Stephens: Yeah. I left that out.
Kenneth Copeland: Oh my goodness. That's big. He saw the whole thing at one time. There's no telling what Panorama struck him and what he actually, what the vision he actually had.
Greg Stephens: He saw so much that he was shining. There's not words in English to describe it. He says, show me all a and I will make all my goodness pass before thee. I'll Proclaim the name of the Lord before thee and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious and show mercy chesed on whom I will show chesed. And he said, thou cannot see my face for there shall no, man. See me and live verse 21. And the Lord said, behold, there is a place by me there's a key phrase. Yes, sir. And now she'll stand upon a rock. Now what place is there by the father? Right at his right hand.
Kenneth Copeland: That's what I was just thinking. There is a place at my right hand.
Greg Stephens: At my right hand. Well, now that place does it belong to Moses and doesn't belong to me? Oh yes it does. Because it belongs to Jesus. Yes, sir. And I'm in Christ.
Kenneth Copeland: And I'm seated with him, raised up and seated with him in heavenly places. He's on the right hand of the father on the throne of grace, Greg. Where you and I sit at the right hand of Jesus because the right hand is authority and we are his authority in the earth.
Greg Stephens: So he places him in here. He goes past and he can see from... The history of it from there back, he sees it all. So he walks past him. Now here's where this thing gets a little messed up. Here's where Moses misrepresented everything he saw. Cause I believe he saw the complete goodness. So I believe he saw in our age because he was placed in our age temporarily. He gets down and they're complaining about water. First of all, he's commanded to strike the rock and the water, the water would flow forth. Well, we know that's a typology and we know, we know what that is. That's Jesus Christ. He'll be struck. The water will flow out. And then he was told the next time don't strike the rock that people are grumbling. He said, speak to it. And he didn't do that. He got angry at the people, let his passions get the best of him. And he struck the rock again. And he broke that covenant typology that the father wanted demonstrated. To the people. Here's the typology. He saw all the goodness, he saw Mark 11.
Kenneth Copeland: Have what you say.
Greg Stephens: Have what you say.
Kenneth Copeland: He should have demonstrated that. And it should have been the type that you could refer to in Mark 11:23. Yes, sir. Instead it became the Anti-type, the attitude. And you had to learn it. If you had to know Mark 11:23 to realize what he did.
Greg Stephens: So what he's trying to get them to do is to once the rock has been struck and the rock has been struck, comes right after Passover with the boys that night teaching them. And from now on...
Kenneth Copeland: He got the water. He got the water, but he cost him his ministry.
Greg Stephens: It cost him his ministry.
Kenneth Copeland: The people got the water they needed.
Greg Stephens: Yes, they did it. It took care of the people because he watches over his word. Yes, sir. This is why you see ministries fail. They misrepresent the covenant. They misrepresent righteousness. And he misrepresented it. He got to see it. He took him up on the mountain, let him see the promised land, but he didn't get to enter in. And I'm telling you what you, I know you're pressing for that 120 years and I've got my faith in agreement with you on that because we have seen the rock struck now because of our covenant. Here's what we know about our covenant. We're not to strike Jesus again, matter of fact, Paul wrote that. Shall he come down from heaven? Or be brought up... He's quoting what happens here with Moses. Doesn't need to be struck again. Now you'll speak. That goes right back to what you just read in John. You'll ask the father in my name and he will do it.
Kenneth Copeland: And that's 16:23. Now in Mark,11:24... 23 and 24. Whosoever shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed, be thou cast into the sea. Not doubt in his heart, but believe that soever things which he sayeth shall come to pass. You have whatsoever you sayeth, therefore I say unto you, what's everything you desire. When you pray, believe you receive them and you shall have them. Now John 16:23 and 24. Whatsoever. You ask the father in my name. He will give it you. Didn't say anything about believing.
Greg Stephens: Because the rock has been struck. I just have to say it now.
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah. And he, he said ask and you shall receive that your joy may be made manifest. You are my child. I have already graduated now in Mark 11:24. I'm there. It's mine and we are out of time.