Joyce Meyer - Fighting Back Against Fear - Part 2
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Ginger Stache: Well, hello there. I’m Ginger Stache and welcome to, «Enjoying Everyday Life». We are so glad that you’re joining us today. We have some unfinished business to get to. That’s right. Yesterday, we were learning how to fight back against fear. And Joyce encouraged us to face it and not run away. So, please join us as Erin, Joyce, and I continue to trust God. We’re going to talk about how to grow stronger and to attempt to live a life free from fear. But even if we are afraid, to do it afraid. Stay with us.
Ginger Stache: We are going to talk about something that’s really important because it impacts all of our lives and especially in the world today. We live in a world that is full of fear. And so, Joyce is here with us, Erin and I are gonna talk about how to deal with fear in our lives and how to help overcome it.
Joyce Meyer: There’s so many things going on in the world today. If you don’t trust God, you go crazy. I mean, you just, you can’t be afraid of things. I mean, you can be, but you’re just going to be miserable if you are. And so, faith overcomes fear. And if we walk in faith, trusting God to take care of us, he says he loves us and that he will take care of us. You know, «The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want,» you know, «Even though I go through the valley of the shadow of death, I will not fear for you are with me». And when you get afraid, there’s a lot of scriptures that you can meditate on. People in the Bible were afraid. When God called Jeremiah, Jeremiah was afraid. He said, «I’m too young, I’m this and that». You know, different people, Moses told God, «I’m not this, I’m not a good speaker, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not». And the thing is, is God already knows what we’re not. And he «Uses the weak and the foolish things of the world to confound the wise». And when I look back at how much time I wasted in fear and the things worked out anyway, you know, I just, I don’t wanna do that anymore. And another thing that we have to be careful of is dread. Because dread is like the first cousin of fear. And I had to go somewhere the other day and be with some people that I didn’t particularly wanna be with. And they had hurt me in the past, and it’s just usually not a comfortable situation for me. And I just decided, «I’m gonna go in there, I’m gonna be friendly, I am gonna take the initiative and be friendly». And three or four times that week I had to say, «I will not dread this». Because I would start, I’d feel that dread, you know. And if you let dread go, it will turn into fear.
Ginger Stache: Yeah. No, that’s really helpful to know how to handle that. Because you just had to draw a line.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah. You have to make your mind up. I mean, it’s amazing how our thoughts, the effect that our thoughts have on us.
Erin Cluley: Oh, absolutely.
Joyce Meyer: And the Bible tells us to «Cast down wrong thoughts and imaginations and take every thought captive under the obedience of Jesus Christ,» in 2 Corinthians 10. «Take every thought captive under the obedience of Jesus Christ». And in the beginning, that’s just like, «My gosh,» I spent the whole day casting down and…
Erin Cluley: Every thought.
Ginger Stache: So many thoughts.
Joyce Meyer: Casting down and it coming back. But gradually, a little bit at a time, as your mind is renewed, according to the Word of God, the minute you feel fear, you recognize it, and you know that’s not the way you’re supposed to feel, so, you can say, «I will not fear, I will walk in faith». And what you say, even to yourself, and we do all talk to ourself.
Erin Cluley: We do.
Joyce Meyer: What we say is very important. I think we believe more of what we say than what anybody else says.
Erin Cluley: When I was a kid, I was very terrified to go to sleep at night, at a certain age. And so, I remember my dad would come in, and he taught me Psalm 23. And so, we would say it over and over every night. And that got so deep in my heart that even as an adult, if I feel fear, then sometimes that scripture will come back up. And I think… So, now, I’ve taught it to my son who deals with some fear. And the power of the word, in our hearts, just makes such an impact in those moments of fear that even though the fear might not have gone away, it gave me the strength to walk through that fear, so.
Ginger Stache: That’s really important too, because I think sometimes, we think that as I get older and more spiritually mature, somehow, I won’t have to deal with these things anymore. Like, I’ll get past the level of needing to guard my thoughts. And it really doesn’t work that way. We always have to be aware of our thoughts. And when fear or dread or whatever is creeping in. You’re talking about people in the Bible who had those issues. Jeremiah said, «I can’t do it because I’m too young». Sarah said, «I can’t do it because I’m too old».
Joyce Meyer: Right.
Ginger Stache: I mean, there’s always something that satan will plant in our minds to remind us of why we need to be afraid. What we can’t handle, all of those things. And if we have the Word of God so ingrained in us that that is our first response, it doesn’t mean that we have to be ashamed of the fear that we faced because we’ve learned how to handle it. So, it makes such a huge difference. Are there other things that can stir up fear in our lives? I know a lot of people just can’t really take in too much news, because there’s so much in the world that is uncertain and so much that’s going on. And of course, the negative news is what leads everything. So, that’s one of the things that I’ve heard a lot of people talking about is making the choices in your own life, not to be hidden from truth, but how much can you handle and what is good for you and what is not?
Joyce Meyer: Well, like, I mean, I know someone who cannot watch any kind of a movie where there’s any kind of attack on a woman. She just cannot do it because then she’ll just start getting afraid, you know, that something’s gonna happen to her or one of her girls. And if you can’t handle it then it’s better…
Ginger Stache: There’s no need to do it: don’t do it.
Joyce Meyer: Not to do it. So, each person has to decide for themselves, «Is this something that I need to confront»? I think we need to confront things that are keeping us from doing the things that God wants us to do.
Ginger Stache: Like, one woman that we talked to who was afraid of flying.
Joyce Meyer: Right.
Ginger Stache: And she knew that there were things that she needed to do, and she had to confront that fear so she could go where God wanted her to go.
Joyce Meyer: She was missing things in life because her husband traveled all the time and he wanted her to go. But she would not go unless they drove, and he was a very busy man: he didn’t have time to drive everywhere. And she flies all the time now. But, you know, the first time, when you’re breaking that bondage off of your life, like I said, I mean, I would like, for years and years, I never talked to anybody about what my dad was doing to me. And I was probably, in my early '20s, before I ever told anybody. And when I first started to talk about it, I would shake, and I would start shaking, and sometimes, even after I was finished talking about it, I might shake for two or three hours after that trying to get myself calmed down. Well, now, that doesn’t happen at all. You know, I told the whole world what happened to me in an effort to help them. And it’s just a matter of pressing through things. Let’s just talk for a minute about the opposing force. Let’s talk about faith. In Hebrews 11:6 it says, «Without faith it is impossible to please God because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him». So, those are two things: God is and he’s good. He’s a rewarder of those who earnestly seek him. Without faith we cannot receive and walk in God’s good plan for our lives. And he is not pleased until we do. Because he wants us to have good lives. And so, if we don’t have faith, it doesn’t please him, because then we can’t receive from him. Well, naturally, satan is gonna come against that, trying to give us the exact opposite of what God wants to give us. John 6:28, they ask him, «What must we do to be doing the works that God requires»? And Jesus said, «This is the work that God requires of you that you believe in the one whom he has sent». It always comes back to that faith and believing. John 11:40, «Then Jesus said, 'did I not tell you that if you believe you would see the glory of God? '» and I’ve just got scripture after scripture after scripture. But you know, maybe, instead of trying to fight all these fears, we just need to practice more believing and…
Ginger Stache: Yeah, that’s good.
Joyce Meyer: You know, stay on the positive side. Like the Bible says, «Walk in the spirit and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh». It doesn’t say, «Fight with the lust of the flesh, and then you’ll be able to walk in the spirit».
Erin Cluley: That’s so good. Because then you walk in a situation, like, I can just think of a couple examples where, instead of me walking in and thinking, «I’m not gonna be afraid of this,» I’m thinking, «I am the daughter of the Most High. I am called and equipped to do this, and he will give me what I need».
Joyce Meyer: That’s exactly right.
Erin Cluley: And what a different way that is to go into a circumstance.
Joyce Meyer: I wrote a book on habits, about making good habits and breaking bad habits. But I didn’t call it «Breaking bad habits and making good habits». I talked about «Making good habits and breaking bad habits». And the principle there is, is instead of me fighting with the bad habit and always trying to stop this, «I can’t do this. I gotta stop this. I gotta stop this. I’m resisting it. I’m against it». I need to just practice doing the right thing. And then, there’ll be no room for the bad thing. When you cast down a wrong thought, then there’s room for you to think a good thought. But if you cast down a wrong thought and don’t replace it with a good one, the wrong one’s gonna come right back.
Erin Cluley: Which you teach about the words that we say.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah.
Erin Cluley: You don’t just stop saying negative things, I now have to say the positive in its place.
Joyce Meyer: Well, when Jesus talked about casting out demons, he said, «If you cast the demon out and the place is empty, then he’ll just go get seven more and bring 'em back.».
Ginger Stache: Bring his friends. That’s no good.
Erin Cluley: No.
Joyce Meyer: And it’ll be worse than your first. So, he was basically saying, «We’re gonna get rid of the evil in your life, but now you need to do good things so that evil can’t find a place to get back in».
Ginger Stache: So, it’s not enough just to say, «I’m not going to be afraid. I’m not going to be afraid. I’m not going to be afraid». I mean, you could try to work something up in yourself, which is like a false bravado, but that doesn’t do it. It’s not going to be sustained when something does happen. Instead, you have to know why you don’t have to be afraid.
Joyce Meyer: Right, and you think, you know, «I’m not giving fear anymore of my attention. I’m gonna pay attention to faith». And fill yourself full of faith scriptures, and read books on faith, and read books on believing. And you know, we believe something all the time, so why not believe the good things?
Ginger Stache: Yeah, when you’re afraid, you’re believing something bad’s gonna happen.
Joyce Meyer: You’re believing something bad’s gonna happen, so it’s just as easy and a lot more fun to believe that something good is going to happen. And some people might say, «Well», you know, and this was kind of my attitude. «Well, if I believe that and then it doesn’t happen, I’m gonna be disappointed». But I’d rather, I always say, «I’d rather believe for a lot and get part of it, than believe for nothing and get all of it».
Erin Cluley: Yeah, that’s so true. I kind of had this Revelation in the last year that when you fear something happening, there’s no grace covering you yet, because it hasn’t happened. You don’t need God’s grace for it. But when you walk through something that’s really difficult or hard or scary, God gives you the grace to walk through that situation. And so, we had something happen, and I experienced God’s grace kick in, in a way that it didn’t take away from the pain of the situation, it was still awful, but yet God’s peace and grace was there, so we had what we needed. And thought, I had worried about something like this for so many years. And then, when it happened, yes, it’s still awful, but God gave us what we need. And I just think that we would save so much energy…
Ginger Stache: Yeah, you’re right.
Erin Cluley: To not have to even mess with that until it’s time, and he gives you what you need to walk through it.
Ginger Stache: Because rather than just during this difficult time that you’re walking through it, which is really, really hard, but like you said, God is with you. He’s helping you. It doesn’t always make it feel better at the moment…
Erin Cluley: Right.
Ginger Stache: But it will in the long run.
Erin Cluley: Right.
Ginger Stache: Instead of just having this timeline that you had to deal with it, if you’re afraid of it, then you have this timeline that you have to deal with it because of all the fear leading up to it.
Erin Cluley: Yes.
Ginger Stache: And you just take a bad situation, and you expand on it incredibly. And it takes so much out of us, like you were saying, to even be in that fear all the time. It’s exhausting.
Erin Cluley: It’s exhausting.
Joyce Meyer: And, you know, fear is not just afraid of things in the future. Fear can also be afraid of things in the past. Like, «I made a mistake now, and I’ll never get over it».
Ginger Stache: Right, yeah.
Joyce Meyer: You know, «I’ve totally messed this up. I sinned and now God won’t forgive me». You know, «I blew my opportunity now: I’ll never get another one». We need to apply faith in all areas of our life. The Bible says that «Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen». So, fear is the substance of things we don’t hope for.
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: And God wants us to be full of hope. Hope has become really important to me in the last few years. When I really studied it out and found out that Bible hope is not like this, well, the world’s kind of hope, «Well, I really hope it happens, but I don’t know. It probably won’t. Or, maybe it will, but I hope it will». Bible hope is believing that something good is just about to happen at any moment in your life. And you can’t have faith without hope because faith is the substance of things hoped for. So, you might even just squash it down to something that anybody can understand. Be positive. Hope is always positive. So, always be positive. Always believe the good things. Believe the best of people. Don’t be suspicious and fearful that something bad is gonna happen all the time. I mean, it is absolutely amazing that we will not go beyond what we believe.
Ginger Stache: Well, that makes so much sense because if fear is the expectation that something bad is going to come, then hope is the antidote, it’s the expectation that something good is going to come, that God is going to bring good into our lives. So, if we can replace fear with faith and hope, I mean, it really is just like taking an aspirin for a headache.
Joyce Meyer: Right.
Ginger Stache: One will defeat the other.
Joyce Meyer: That’s right. Good. Good preachin'.
Ginger Stache: Are there things, as we close out, are there things that have been a bigger struggle with you guys for fear that…? You know, we talk about this stuff and it’s so true. It is absolute truth, but it’s not always easy to walk out, you know. So, are there things that you would encourage anybody with, with things that you’ve had to overcome in your life and how you’ve seen God work in some of these fearful areas?
Joyce Meyer: Well, the biggest thing that I still have to stand against, and I hope I don’t have to do it all my life, but I had a real stronghold built in my childhood of being afraid of my dad’s anger. And so, when he would get angry, I would always do this dance trying to get him back in a good mood, trying to make a joke, or, you know, buy him a gift, do something to make him get back in a good mood. And, you know, it doesn’t bother me if somebody’s mad at me that I don’t really care that much about, but when it gets to be a close friend or family, if I think that I’ve made somebody mad, I have a really hard time settling down until I know they’re okay with me. And that is the one thing that I still have to stand against and remind myself of. So, that’s my thing.
Erin Cluley: That’s a good one. I think, for me, it has to do with being a mom and just my inability to control anything about my children, and…
Ginger Stache: As every mother understands.
Erin Cluley: I’m probably not alone in this. But even as they get older, the things that I can’t control are changing. And so, learning how to work with God and then open hands to remind myself they’re not mine is very scary to me. But I want to keep like Joyce was saying…
Joyce Meyer: But then you can talk to somebody like me…
Erin Cluley: Yes.
Joyce Meyer: Who has four grown children…
Erin Cluley: Yes.
Joyce Meyer: And all the time I wasted being afraid of this with this one, and that with that one, and this with that one, and that one. And you know what? They’ve all turned out just great.
Erin Cluley: They have. And that’s so encouraging. I think that you sharing your story helps me with my fear. So, I think that’s good.
Joyce Meyer: And the Bible says if you «Train 'em up in the way they should go when they’re old, they won’t depart from it». I think that every child, maybe not every child, but a lot of children come to what I call, «A crisis of faith». They have to… I remember one of my kids saying to me, «I have to find out if I believe this because I really believe it’s true, or do I just believe it because you believe it, because you’ve taught me to believe it». And so, they had to go on a little spiritual journey of, maybe, not going to church for a while and, you know, not doing things, and then come back around to knowing they were doing it because they wanted to.
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: And those times were scary for me because, you know, «Well, what if, what if, what if, what if»? And that’s one of the devil’s favorite sayings, by the way, «What if». And I just know from experience that, you know, first of all, you can’t control what they do now or when they’re grown.
Erin Cluley: Right.
Joyce Meyer: And you can raise a child totally right, and they’ll still go haywire. But all you can do is the best you can do. And then you have to leave it in God’s hands. I think something that people don’t really comprehend is when I pray something for you, I believe God hears and answers prayers. But when you’re praying for somebody else, you have no control over their free will. And neither does God, because he’s given 'em free will. So, you may not always get what you want when you’re praying for somebody else because what happens when you pray for them is God will begin to deal with them. But he won’t, you know, maybe, like, salvation, you’re praying for somebody that’s not saved. Well, God’s gonna begin to deal with them, but they still have to submit their will to God. So, you have to know going in when you’re praying for other people that there’s no 100% guarantee that you’re gonna get what you want. And you can’t do anything beyond what you can do.
Erin Cluley: And I think that’s part of it in this situation, and so many in our lives, in the things we’re afraid of, is we can’t control. We can only trust, like you said.
Joyce Meyer: Right.
Erin Cluley: It all comes back to trust. So, I can ask him, and I can give them the people or the situation, and then I have to just let go because otherwise that fear can just eat at you.
Joyce Meyer: Let me just say something to you, as we close here, that I hear all the time and you just did it. We say… No, this is good. We say, «I have to trust God,» but we should say, «I get to trust God». «I have to let go». No, you get to let go, and know that God’s got it.
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: «I have to» is one of the things that Jesus died for. That’s legalism. It’s like, «I have to go to church». No, you don’t. «I have to go to the grocery store». No, you could just not eat, you know. There’s so many things, everything in life is, «Well, I have to do this». «I have to go to work». «I have to, I have to, I have to». No, you get to. I’ve been thinking about that with faith and trust. What a privilege it is to have a problem and be able to trust God. Think of all the people in the world that don’t know how to do that. And that’s a great privilege that we have. We get to trust God with our children. We get to trust God with our finances. So, no more «Have to».
Erin Cluley: That was good.
Ginger Stache: That’s a great place to wrap things up. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. I think there are a lot of fears, right now, that are just subsiding, you know.
Joyce Meyer: Right.
Ginger Stache: That God’s working in your life and he’s teaching you about faith and hope and he’s sharing with you how to deal with your fear in a different way. Instead of trying to fight it and combat it on your own with your own strength, he is showing you, a better way, and you get to walk through that with his help.
Joyce Meyer: Amen.
Ginger Stache: So, thank you both. Love you guys. Love all of you, and we’ll see you right back here, next week. Bye-bye.
Joyce Meyer: We will.