Joyce Meyer - Lies We Believe

Ginger Stache: Hello, friends. We are glad that you are here because this will be an eye-opener for you. The four of us, today, are going to be talking about some of the lies that we have believed and how they've impacted our lives. Because, Joyce, you were just saying that many people don't realize that some of the things that we believe and really impact our actions, and how we think about ourself, are just lies and they don't realize where they're coming from.

Joyce Meyer: Well, Satan is called the deceiver. And you're deceived when you believe a lie. The thing that's really bad about it is whatever you believe becomes reality for you, even if it's not true. And it will affect you as if it were true. And so, there's so many different lies that Satan tries to tell people. And I know you've got a clip you wanna get started with, and then I've got a whole list of lies.

Ginger Stache: Lists and lists of lies.

Joyce Meyer: Lists of lies.

Erin Cluley: Are we to check off the ones that we have when you say them.

Joyce Meyer: I'm sure we all have different ones too.

Jai Williams: Oh, yeah.

Ginger Stache: Oh, yeah. We're all gonna share some of those things that we have fallen for, you know. Nobody likes that word deceived, but, boy, we've all been there. So, yeah, Joyce is right. We're gonna start off with a clip from her where she shares about some of the biggest lies that we believe and how they impact our lives.

Joyce Meyer: Now, let's talk about some lies that I believed in my life. I believed that I was flawed because I had an abusive childhood, and that I would always be flawed, that I would always have a second-rate life, and I would just have to settle for that. Well, I found out in here that was a lie. Maybe you're here today and you've made a lot of mistakes, and the devil's been telling you, "Well, it's too late for you. I mean, you might still go to heaven, but you can forget any kind of a victorious life. You can forget your ministry. You can, you know, forget really having the things that you thought you once could have". That's a lie. That's a lie. I wonder how many lies people believe in this place today. I just wonder how much...See, the problem with deception is you don't know you're deceived. And so it's like, "Well, no, I don't believe lies".

Well, I'm telling you that I did. One of the lies that I believed, as messed up as I was, I believed I was right about everything. And I was very happy to tell everybody what was wrong with them, and I was very happy to make a huge effort to change them. And I was totally deceived. I did not know what a miserable, wretched mess that I was. "Oh God, you gotta change Dave. Oh God, you gotta change Dave. God, you gotta change Dave". And I was shocked one day when the Lord spoke to me while I was praying. Who would expect God to speak to them while they're praying? And he said, "Dave is not the problem". And I thought, "Well, then who is? There's only me and him. It cannot be me". I mean, seriously, how much are you finding wrong with the other people in your life? Not this section? Okay, what about over here?

And the devil loves that, because if he can keep us busy finding things wrong with everybody else, then we never can be confronted by the truth about ourselves, and we just go our whole lives judging, and criticizing, and living this fantasy that there's no problem with us. And I don't care if there's 1,000 things wrong with the person you're married to. You are not gonna change 'em, but God can change you if you'll let him change you. And he can change you so much that you won't even care what's wrong with him.Yeah! I mean, Dave still does stuff that used to drive me nuts and now I just couldn't care less. Doesn't bother me at all. Doesn't upset me. I don't think anything about it. And I stayed mad for years over stuff that he still does. He didn't change, but God changed me. But he won't change you until you're willing to say, "God, I don't want to be deceived. Show me truth. Help me face truth".

So, I believed all kinds of things that weren't true. That's why the Bible says in Romans 12 that we are to renew our minds according to the Word of God. So much deception in the world today, just crazy stuff, stuff that don't even make any sense. One thing that I read said, "Self-deceit is said to be a sin against common sense". Remember last night I said, "You know, in the last 10 years or so, I've just come to the conclusion, you know, if what I'm doing is not working, then why just keep doing it"? You know, if I'm mad at people all the time that have hurt me and it's not changing them at all, it's just making me miserable, then why stay mad? If I'm worrying all the time and it's not changing my problems, it's just giving me ulcers and headaches, then why keep doing it? Why can't we just have a little sanctified common sense?

Ginger Stache: Common sense, you know, sometimes you think it's common sense, but when you're living it and these things seem so real to you, cuz that's how the devil works. He's a sneaky one, and he knows how to push the buttons to make it really impact us. But I think what you said is so true that we don't know, what we don't know. You know, being deceived, the definition means you don't know it. So, how do we figure it out?

Joyce Meyer: Well, the first thing, I wanna say, and I really want everybody to get this, is the Bible says, "Pray that you be not deceived". And I really wonder how many people have ever prayed that. And really, it's something that we should pray on a regular basis, "God help me not to be deceived". And especially in the last days, which we believe we're in. I know every generation has believed they're in the last days. But, you know, we're laster than they were so.

Ginger Stache: I love that.

Joyce Meyer: We're more last. And in the last days, deception will be really great. And so, I just wanna encourage everybody to pray that. You know, "God, I don't wanna be deceived. If I believe lies and don't realize that they're lies, please show me". Then you have to be willing to face truth. And God's usually not gonna reveal truth to you about somebody else. It's usually gonna be you. But we need to walk in wisdom, and the only way we can do that is if we pray that God will reveal the things that we're deceived about. I think it's probably unimaginable, just with our viewing audience today, how many people are believing things and maybe have believed them most of their life that are just absolutely not true according to the Word of God.

Jai Williams: You think about how even sin entered the world like in the Garden of Eden. It was on deception.

Joyce Meyer: Right.

Jai Williams: You know, like that is, just when you said that I don't really pray that I'm not deceived. But that's even how we even have to have the Battlefield of the Mind, because we're believing something that's not true. Like, it's really the start of sin. It's like, deception is the start of sin.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, you're right. The Bible says in Genesis that Satan deceived eve. And he told her a half truth.

Erin Cluley: Yeah. It's not all the way wrong.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, it's not all the way wrong. You know, but there's just, you know, truth has gotta be pure. If you have just a, even, like, you know, there's a large number of people in the world that believe that, you know, Jesus was a prophet but not a Savior. I mean, there's a lot of people that believe that Christianity's right, but they also believe that, you know, a lot of other religions are right, too. There's people that believe that "Well, a good God would never send anybody to hell". But they don't realize that God does not send anybody to hell, people choose. They make choices. He said, "I said before you, life and death, you choose". And so, what about you guys? What's one of the biggest lies, Ginger, that you've caught the devil telling you?

Ginger Stache: One of the biggest ones for me is that thinking that God was not good if what was happening in my life was not good at the time. That lie that if God is good, then these things shouldn't be happening. And boy, you know, we all learn so much over the years and I'm so grateful for what I've learned. And, you know, I can say I'm so grateful for my age just for experience and what you get from it, because I wanna encourage, you know, young women, whether you're in your twenties or thirties, wherever you may be, is that there's so much that you'll learn that will change how you see yourself, how you see who God is. And that was one of the big things for me is, I would get very confused and angry at God: "How can you be good if this thing is so bad that's happening right now"? And "How can you be good if what I feel is not good"? And, you know, we all know that feelings are not what we can go by, but it's hard when you feel like things are really bad. So, I found this verse that I loved at the time that really helped. It was Deuteronomy 7:22: "The Lord your God will drive out those nations before you little by little". He's talking about, he's fighting people's battles for them, right? "You will not be allowed to eliminate them all at once or the wild animals will multiply around you".

Joyce Meyer: And that's pride.

Ginger Stache: I love this because it taught me so much about all those things that I don't see that I'm not thinking of. I'm thinking, "Why aren't all these battles won right now"? And it's because if he did, things would happen that would come in and steal the victory away. So, it's not knowing who God is, that makes that lie a reality. It's knowing that he's so good that it's bigger than we can possibly understand.

Erin Cluley: Can I ask the question with that? Cuz of what you just said, I haven't heard that verse in a while. And then, you said that, that was talking about pride, because I think pride's a big lie that I can, I know I fall into. I didn't write it down, but it should have been number one.

Joyce Meyer: I think that's a problem for everybody. You know, pride was Satan's sin. And I think that's the bad thing about pride is like deception, when you're proud, you don't know you're proud. You know, you think, "Nothing wrong with me". You know, like all those years that I thought Dave was the problem and I was so shocked when God told me it was me. I was like, I couldn't hardly believe it, you know, "Me"? And that, Satan keeps people in bondage. You know, "If you continue my word, you will know the truth and the truth will make you free". But there's something it doesn't say that is inferred that we have to understand, that truth, if applied to your life will set you free.

Ginger Stache: You said if you're willing to face it, that's huge.

Joyce Meyer: If you're willing to face it, and it's painful.

Erin Cluley: So, knowing is not enough.

Joyce Meyer: Pride itself makes it very hard for us to believe, and especially to admit to somebody else, that, "I have a problem with this".

Erin Cluley: And it feels scary to me. It feels scary to want to, to even, to say that out loud to you right now, that I have pride, just because of what you do when you say that out loud.

Ginger Stache: Oh, you know, the reason that it's okay to say out loud is because we're all dealing with it, too. I mean, you know, we get it.

Jai Williams: We all are.

Erin Cluley: You're not sitting over there saying, "No, I don't deal with it".

Jai Williams: "How dare you be prideful". "I pride myself on not being prideful". But one of the biggest lies that I believe Satan has really been poking at me was that, because I understand that we go through things and, you know, God allows things. Bad things don't come from God, but God does allow certain things to happen, and he'll get the glory out of it. I felt like that was not a good thing. Like, I felt like, "So you have me on the chopping block always to be used by you, for you, to get the glory". Like...

Ginger Stache: "What about me"?

Jai Williams: What, Joyce's favorite line. "What about me"? But, it's like "How is this good". Like, it's like what you were saying. Like, "How is this good, if the things that I go through that I didn't cause", cuz like, getting a, you know, my ex having an affair, that's not something I reaped. Like, you know, I didn't sow that. So, it's kind of like, it warred with me.

Joyce Meyer: Can I get a word of explanation about that.

Jai Williams: Plea, help me.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah. I think the thing that people don't realize is a lot of our hurt comes from other people. And, you know, we say, "Well, God didn't do it, but he did allow it". But part of the reason behind that is because everybody has free will. And so, even, like, when I got older and I questioned God about why he didn't stop my father from sexually abusing me, especially since I was praying and believing that he would, and my father had a free will. And God does not make people do what's right. And so, as long as my father had authority over me as a child, I was affected by his bad decisions. But as soon as I was able to, soon as I was an age where I could leave and start making my own decisions, then I could start turning things around. So, you were affected by your husband's bad choice. But you are free to make choices, that can cause that to turn out to be a blessing in your life.

Ginger Stache: And the thing is, that is this wonderful opportunity for Satan to come in and start just chopping away at you, and who you are, and your value in Christ, and your value as a woman, "And why wasn't I good enough"? And "Where was God when"? All those things.

Jai Williams: Those are all the questions that I had, and even in that timeframe, and even still now, like, I'm still warring through. When I don't believe, and that's why, I mean, I even brought my phone with me. I have to keep my list of declarations of truths to counter the lies, because Satan was lying to me, saying all these things. Now, grant you, I admit, wholeheartedly, that the failure of our marriage, I had a part of that. Like, I contributed to the failure of our marriage. Things that I wasn't ready to face, lies I believed about myself, things that I brought over from my past, you know, I brought those things. So, the failure of my marriage, like, that I feel like, still could have been worked on was, I was a part of that. Now, the affair and when we got divorced, I had nothing to do with that. Like, so, I still know that there's work that needs to be done in me. So, I'm not blameless in, you know, struggles in our marriage. But that result, I was kinda like, "God, why did you"? Like, you said, "Why did you allow that to happen when I prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed". Even after I found out about stuff was willing...

Joyce Meyer: See, a lot of times, for God to not allow something bad to happen to us, he has to control somebody else's free will.

Jai Williams: Yep.

Joyce Meyer: And he doesn't do that. He gives everybody free choice. And I always say, no matter what happens, you gotta hear the big if. If you choose to handle it God's way, then God will always bring a double blessing back, in your life. But then, that person made a bad choice. But what usually happens then is the person who's been hurt, they make a bad choice. So, then, "I choose to hate you, and to not forgive you, and to have a bad attitude, and to try to get you back". And, you know, but we all have to be responsible for our own behavior. And that takes some humility to do. I think that whole thing about everybody having a free will and God not overriding your free will, I think that deserves a little more attention than what...

Ginger Stache: I wish we could undo that. Don't you? Like, just say, "Okay, God, I'll give you my free will".

Jai Williams: Right.

Ginger Stache: "Help me. Help me not"

Erin Cluley: "Do whatever you want to".

Ginger Stache: But he doesn't do that.

Jai Williams: "I don't wanna be free".

Ginger Stache: Exactly. "I had it. I tried it. It didn't work so well".

Jai Williams: "I really messed things up".

Ginger Stache: "It's yours now".

Erin Cluley: "Decide whatever you want, however you want to".

Ginger Stache: But he knows what's best for us and doesn't work that way.

Joyce Meyer: You know, anytime, if you are going to be involved with people, you're going to get hurt.

Erin Cluley: It makes me really angry. And so, I need to redirect that anger towards, it's the devil that makes me angry, because like, when I was thinking through what are these lies that I believe, it's people who have caused me to believe them. So, the enemy has used painful situations to cause these things. And now, I have all these places in my heart that feel angry, or hurt myself, because of other people. But I need to shift that focus to taking that out like, "I'm angry at you," down there.

Ginger Stache: "You down below".

Erin Cluley: The devil down under my feet. Right. But I think that's important to flip that. Like, I'm glad that you said that because I can't, the person might have messed up. But the devil has worked his way in there.

Joyce Meyer: That's exactly right.

Jai Williams: You think about all the teenage girls that think that they're too big, or too skinny or, you know, ugly or...

Joyce Meyer: Their skin's not right.

Jai Williams: Yeah. Like, yeah. There's like, just all of the negative things that I struggled with when I was a teen, that I see my daughter struggle with, a lot of that has to do with other people's free will casting their opinions on, you know, on people. Like, free will plays a lot into that because it's usually like a trigger and a trauma response to someone else's opinions that make me believe that something's wrong with me, that makes me feel like I'm not good enough because of what people think.

Joyce Meyer: I think free choice is amazing because that means that I always have an opportunity, no matter what anybody else does, I always have an opportunity to follow God and see that thing turned around.

Ginger Stache: Oh, that's a much better way to look at it.

Joyce Meyer: I mean, that doesn't mean that you don't get hurt. You know that, somebody told me, I know somebody who's having a rough time in their marriage right now. And the woman said to me recently, "Well, I just don't feel like I love him anymore". And I said, "You know, if you ever loved him, you still do. But it's hidden now, under hurts and wounds and bruises. And you have to let God heal that, before you can really know what's in there".

Jai Williams: That is heavy right here. I mean, how many marriages could have been saved with just that notion of like, I remember having that, like, "Do you not, you don't love me anymore"? Like, "I don't understand, how you don't love me. We work. We were married for 20 years". Like, "So, you fell out"? Like, "What ha...It wore out"? But it's like, yeah, understanding that you still love people, but that the stuff that's on top of it, the hurts, and wounds...

Joyce Meyer: Hurting people, hurt people. That got me through so much when God told me that regarding my father. You know, like, "Why would you want to do that to your own daughter," you know. And I remember when my father finally did apologize to me when he was 83.

Jai Williams: Ew...That's a long time.

Joyce Meyer: That's a long time. But, you know what he said? He said, "I'm sorry for what I did to you, when you were a kid". But he said, "There is absolutely no way that I could have kept myself from doing it".

Erin Cluley: Oh, wow.

Jai Williams: What?

Erin Cluley: Cause he was so hurt.

Joyce Meyer: So, he was basically saying he was controlled, demonically.

Jai Williams: Wow.

Joyce Meyer: And I think it was a spirit that got into his life in his childhood because there was other stuff like that in his family. And so...

Ginger Stache: So, when you hear that, there's no excuse for what he did.

Joyce Meyer: No, I'm not making excuses for him. But then God said, "You have to remember that hurting people, hurt people". I don't think most people get out of bed every morning and just say, "Well, my goal today is to see how miserable I can make you".

Ginger Stache: Yeah.

Joyce Meyer: You know, I mean, I have a real hard time with mean people because my father was just mean. But he was mean because he was so unhappy. And I'm not making excuses for him. But what is helpful, if you're gonna work on forgiveness, is to understand.

Ginger Stache: Yeah.

Joyce Meyer: Understanding it's just like, "Oh, yeah, I get it".

Ginger Stache: That's what all this is about, isn't it?

Joyce Meyer: I see that, yeah.

Ginger Stache: Is combating those lies with the understanding of truth.

Jai Williams: Like when me and my dad had tough, tough times, when I was younger, I used to didn't think he liked me.

Erin Cluley: You didn't, is that what you said?

Jai Williams: I didn't think he loved me. I didn't think, you know, and so then that messed with my relationship with God because I correlated a Heavenly Father with my earthly father. And those lies of, "He doesn't love you: he doesn't like you, he doesn't", you know. But then, when I got older and really walked through some healing with that situation, like, honestly, God like, gave me visions of my dad when he was younger, like some of the things that he had gone through. And taking that moment to have that sense of empathy for someone that may have hurt you, like, that's, I think that's what you're talking about. Is like, it's not making an excuse, but it's like, understanding what led them to that. Like, you've even talked about it, even with your, with, you know, what happened with you and Mike. It's like, you unders, you had to almost backtrack to think about what got 'em to that place and not take it so personally.

Joyce Meyer: Now, once somebody is in bondage, I mean, we all know. You know, it's like if you have an addiction to something or you're in bondage, it's not just snap your fingers and walk out of it. You know, it takes a close relationship with God. But then sometimes somebody that's in that kind of sin don't really believe they could ever have that. And so, there's a lot of little intricacies to this that if you do understand that really helps you to be able to forgive and to let go.

Ginger Stache: What's another one of those lies for you, Erin, that you've believed?

Erin Cluley: One of them is kind of what, Jai, you mentioned about like, teen girls. And so, those lies, I remember, starting to believe them in like, middle school, that I'm always second choice. I will never be the first one picked. And so, I was never the first one with a boyfriend. I've talked about that before. But just that feeling of not being picked, because I didn't fully recognize that was a lie then, that stayed. And so, now, as an adult, that's still one that I have to constantly renew my mind with. Excuse me. The Battlefield of the Mind is so important.

Jai Williams: You said, "Excuse me," to the table.

Ginger Stache: She kicked the table on accident.

Jai Williams: She didn't wanna offend it.

Ginger Stache: "Sorry, table".

Erin Cluley: So pretty. I can see now, looking back, like how that compounds if you don't call that lie what it is, and catch it, and say, "No," that compounds. So then, going into marriage and having even recently found out about Mike's addiction to pornography, now I'm second again. And I am chosen, I'm not as pretty as those girls, so I'm the second pick because I'm what he married so that's what you get.

Joyce Meyer: But see, we take other people's mistakes on us. And instead of saying like, "I thought what my father did to me was my fault". But how could it be my fault, as a kid? I didn't know to say, "You have a problem, and this is your fault". Same way with you.

Erin Cluley: Right.

Joyce Meyer: You know, the devil really tries to deceive, once again, by making us think, you know, "Well, if I would have been different, there would have been no affair". "If I would have been different, there would have been no pornography". "If I would have been different, there would have been no abuse". But that's lies.

Erin Cluley: No. And I had to, Psalm 139:13-18 is one that, when I go there, in my mind, I have to say over, "You created my inmost being. My frame was not hidden from you". That means, like, the way that my body is created is by God. It's designed that way. So therefore, that is a lie that I'm second choice. This is how he chose to make me, his first choice.

Joyce Meyer: I think a lot of people believe, when they're having trouble or problems, that they did something wrong. And now God is punishing them for what they did.

Erin Cluley: That's a big one.

Ginger Stache: Like, "I got sick. Therefore, God is punishing me".

Joyce Meyer: "God is punishing me". And as much as I know about the word, and as long as I've been walking in these truths, just this week, the enemy tried to tell me that. Because I hadn't felt very good lately. My back went out, and I'd been nauseated, and I'm like, you know, and I found myself, see, we don't pay attention sometimes, to what we're thinking. And sure the Holy Spirit caused me to realize that I was thinking, "Well, have I done something wrong"? And I haven't had a problem with that in like, for a long time. So, we have to be careful. Just because you gain a victory, you have to maintain that victory.

Ginger Stache: Oh, that's so important. That's good.

Joyce Meyer: You gain. But you have to maintain.

Erin Cluley: Because you're Joyce meyer and you still have to work on it.

Joyce Meyer: Oh, yeah. Every day. Every day of my life, I have to work on my thoughts, my words. Disciplining myself to do the things that I know that I need to do. We're not going to reach a point where all this is just gonna be easy and there's no effort to put into it. That's why, you know, being a real full-on, God-kind-of-Christian is not for wimps.

Ginger Stache: No, it's not.

Jai Williams: It's on-going. Like, I think that is so important to really point out. Is like, just because you've overcome a lie of, you know, "I am pretty enough" or, "I am", you know, like "That is a lie". Tomorrow you're gonna probably feel ugly again. You know, say, like, have to do it all over again. Like, the same with forgiveness.

Joyce Meyer: And who decides what pretty is anyway?

Jai Williams: Exactly. I know.

Ginger Stache: And Satan is so good at what he does. Like what you were talking about, Joyce, he knew that, that wound from your past, that thing that he could kind of throw at you again, but you knew how to fight back. For me, one of the lies that I believe, like, if I'm sick or something like that, I begin to think "This situation will last forever". You know, instead of thinking, "God is working". And, you know, "It may be difficult today, but joy comes in the morning". Satan, for me, will start saying, "Oh, you know, there's something really, really worse here and you're gonna be like this forever".

Joyce Meyer: I call 'em "The never" and "The always," lies.

Ginger Stache: Yes, those are terrible lies.

Joyce Meyer: They're categories. You know, "This is never gonna change, you're gonna be like this forever". And then the next thing you think is, "I can't stand it. I can't take this".

Ginger Stache: Yeah, "I can't take it".

Joyce Meyer: But if you realize this will end and it will end well. I've formed a habit of when bad things are going on, of actually saying, "This is going to end well, and it will not last forever".

Ginger Stache: Oh, that's good.

Jai Williams: Oh, that's really good.

Ginger Stache: Let me ask you about a few lies that people believe, and just see if you guys have dealt with it or how you would fight back. One is: "I have to be perfect".

Erin Cluley: All hands in the air. That was my number one, actually. Very much.

Joyce Meyer: Actually, one of the things I wrote down is "I believe that God loved me more when I was good," when I was working, for me, it was working. Because, for some reason, I always felt like my father wasn't much into fun. So, I remember getting in trouble for laughing and playing, but if I was working, he seemed to be happier. So, I had a really hard time...

Ginger Stache: You learned it.

Joyce Meyer: I had a hard time believing that God wanted me to enjoy my life.

Jai Williams: Yeah. That was a big one for me. Like, that I've contemplated is like, because I'm so performance based, you know, just, "If I'm not performing", cuz I would hear the accolades from my dad, who's a pastor, from the platform.

Joyce Meyer: And Christianity doesn't believe with a do, it believes with a done. It's what Christ has done, not what we do.

Jai Williams: Yeah.

Ginger Stache: So, fighting against that whole thing that, "If I'm not perfect, I'm not worthy of," "I'm not good enough".

Erin Cluley: Did you want to raise your hand on that one, too?

Ginger Stache: Oh, absolutely. I mean, honestly, all of us, very driven...

Joyce Meyer: We all have that to a certain degree.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a thing. Okay, here's another one. "My life is harder than anyone else's".

Joyce Meyer: Oh, yeah.

Ginger Stache: "My life is harder than other people's".

Joyce Meyer: That's what", I've got it worse than anybody. Poor me". You know, the Bible actually says in Peter that these same afflictions are appointed to your brethren throughout the world. And it's talking about when you're going through things that, you know, at the right time, God will deliver you. And to remember that other people are going through the same things. And I think that's very helpful. If you remember, "I'm not the only one that's hurting".

Erin Cluley: It's true. We were just talking about this last night: Mike and I were. Cuz we just have a lot going on. And so, we were talking about like, helping somebody else, and it was like too much. Like, "We don't have time to help them. We have all this going on". So, we had to talk through this conversation of, you know, the actual point of us being here on this earth is to help people. And there's balance and boundaries, and all that. You can't help everybody all the time. But this home and keeping our life protected is not the point. So, that was an important lie that we worked through.

Ginger Stache: Yeah.

Jai Williams: That's during some of the toughest times in my life, now, grant you, I've built my life on trying to mentor. You know, I've always had either interns or some, you know, somebody that's been around. But when I was goin' through that tough time, I wanted to get rid of everybody, like, "I can't help none of y'all". But then, I said, "You know what? Let me slow down, and I can't take on as many as I typically do". So, I had to use wisdom with that and to make sure that I was in a healthy space. But I did take on a few that I was like, "I can still help somebody during this. I don't have to like, isolate completely while I heal or process this". And those are some of the most rewarding times, of that season, was when I was able to pour into someone else, you know? And it also made me not believe the lie that "I was kinda useless".

Ginger Stache: Yeah, so, when you started fighting back against that lie, that is actually what God used to start some of your healing.

Jai Williams: It reaffirmed me. Because I felt like, I was like, "Nobody's gonna", you know, like, you know, the whole thoughts of divorce in the church. It's like, "Now the church isn't gonna want me back," or like, "Can I still lead a church"? You know, just all those lies. That saying, helping someone else, reminded me like, "No, the gift of God is still in my life. The anointing of God is still on my life. I'm still", you know, "He's still able to use me to help other people".

Joyce Meyer: God hates divorce, but he doesn't hate people that are divorced. He hates what divorce does to people, but he always loves us.

Ginger Stache: And the way the devil twists our thoughts, as well, like, the one we just talked about, that "My life is harder than anyone else's". I haven't really thought that, but I have instead had my version of that, which is "But nobody else understands what I'm going through". And, you know, that's just as wrong. We serve a God who walked this earth and understands completely everything that I'm dealing with and is in the midst of it. And yet, it's so easy to see, "Nobody understands me". And, you know, "I'm just not sure that people see how much I'm hurting right now".

Joyce Meyer: Or "How hard I'm working. Nobody appreciates me". And "Nobody works as hard as I do".

Ginger Stache: Right. Here's another lie, let's talk about, and I think this is one that I know you've talked about dealing with before, Joyce, is just that, "It's just my personality. I'm dealing with these things. It's just who I am. Get used to it. It's never going to change".

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, well, we should never, we have to always compare our behavior with God's word. And so, if my behavior doesn't line up with God's word, then that's not "Just who I am". And I don't just get to do that, because "That's just who I am". Or because "It's hard for me". Like, you know, I'm pretty straightforward. And a lot of people really love that and that can really be good, but it can also slip over into being rude, or to picking a wrong time to be straightforward. And so, I've had to deal with that in myself and become a little softer, a little more gentle. Believe it or not, it's a lot easier to teach all this stuff than it is to do it. [ladies laughing]

Ginger Stache: That's fair to say, yeah.

Joyce Meyer: And there is a greater responsibility on people who teach it. The Bible says that in James, that there's a greater responsibility. What about this? The Bible says that "Pure religion, true and undefiled, is to bridle your tongue and to visit, help, and care for..."

Ginger Stache: We all go, wha...Wha.

Joyce Meyer: "To visit, help, and care for widows and orphans in their affliction, and to live a holy life". So, how many people think they are so spiritual, and yet, they're always talking about other people behind their back? Some of the meanest people that I have ever met have been religious people.

Erin Cluley: That's awful.

Joyce Meyer: And so, God really did not send Jesus to die for us so we could have a religion.

Jai Williams: Yeah, that's good.

Joyce Meyer: But so, we could have a personal relationship with him and be transformed into his image, to be like him. And so, I thought it'd just be good to throw a word in there for the tongue. You know.

Ginger Stache: I think that's a great idea.

Erin Cluley: With that, do you think that it would be safe to say, it's potentially a lie, that the church believes, that it's our job to determine what is right or wrong, and not allowing God to do some of that. Like, do you think the church believes lies?

Joyce Meyer: Well, I think, today, in our society, that I don't even know how many people really believe in absolute truth anymore.

Erin Cluley: Yeah, that's true.

Joyce Meyer: You know, it's like, well, truth is different for different people. But that's ridiculous. I mean, truth can only be one thing. You know, you can't have 12 versions of the truth. And so, Jesus said, "I am the truth". So, his word is the truth. You know, when you really get down to telling people, "No, you don't just get to do whatever you wanna do". You know, the Bible has a lot of wonderful promises, but it's for people who are obedient to the word. And that doesn't mean we're not forgiven for mistakes, and that doesn't mean God's not merciful. But you have to be very careful about making excuses for sin. And because that's a deception in itself.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, it is. That obedience word is a hard one. It's so important.

Joyce Meyer: I mean, it says in Romans 2:1, "The same things that you judge other people for, you do". And so, I thought, when I first read that scripture years ago, I thought, "Well, Lord, why in the world would we do that"? And what I heard back was, "Well, you look at everybody else through a magnifying glass, but you look at yourself through rose colored glasses". "So, for me, there's always a reason. But for you, there is no excuse".

Ginger Stache: Yeah.

Jai Williams: I have a taboo question.

Ginger Stache: A taboo question? Eww...

Joyce Meyer: Oh, we're going to get...Mmm.

Jai Williams: I just wanna throw it out there and if it needs to be scratched, it's scratched. It's one of those things with, a lot of people, it goes to what you asked about people saying that it's part of their personality. What's really trending are people saying, like, because of their horoscope, you know, like, I don't know anything about that. But people say, because you're born in this time, that's what a lot of people are trending and talking about that right now. Like, saying like, "Well, I'm a this" or "I'm a that" and "That's this".

Ginger Stache: And "That's how we are".

Jai Williams: "And that's how we are. I'm not gonna be compatible with you because you were born then, and I wasn't born there", like, that's a topic that a lot of Christians don't talk about. But look at, she's like, "And I'm not going to".

Joyce Meyer: Oh, no! I'm ready!

Ginger Stache: No, she's ready to jump.

Jai Williams: Please, please! Because I'm saying like, that is something, literally, if I'm having a conversation with somebody, seriously...

Erin Cluley: This is gonna be so fun.

Jai Williams: I'm just saying, people say like, "When were you born? What's your sign"? I'm like, I don't even know.

Ginger Stache: Here, Jai, slide over here, and we'll just let her go.

Joyce Meyer: I'm trying so hard to let you finish.

Jai Williams: Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead!

Joyce Meyer: I worked with a girl, one time, that was all into that stuff. And she would not even get her haircut unless it was the right time of the month and her stars aligned. Okay. Well, here was the problem. I was at a place in my life where I was really hungry to go deeper with God. But the church I was going to wasn't giving me anything beyond doctrines, which we need, but I was getting no help with my everyday life problems. So, I was wide open looking for something, and actually, hungry for the supernatural. Because there is a part of us that wants that because God's put it in us. And I was actually starting to listen to her, and she wanted to chart my life and chart my stars. And it was about that time that God interrupted and touched me with the power of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, I could have went right down that road. So, let me just say, the Bible says that's wrong, that we don't consult things like that. Would you want to ask the stars what you should do, when you can consult with the one who created the stars?

Ginger Stache: That's right. Exactly. Yeah.

Erin Cluley: That's good. I'm glad you asked it.

Jai Williams: I just had to ask. A lot of people are like, they're really on that, right now. To say, like, "That's why you act like that. You must be a..." "You must be..." You know, it's like...

Joyce Meyer: I had a girl giving me a massage, one time, and she told me what sign she was under, and she said, "What are you"? And I said, "I'm a Christian".

Jai Williams: That's your sign.

Joyce Meyer: I was born under the sign of the cross.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, yeah. Well, lies people believe. I mean, there are so many things like that because we're so desperate for guidance. We're so desperate for answers that some of the lies we'll believe is, "I can look here, I can look there". You know, "I can look at the tea leaves," whatever it may be.

Joyce Meyer: Call the psychic on TV and pay them a dollar a minute.

Ginger Stache: Those are big lies that people believe and they're dangerous.

Joyce Meyer: You can pay me a dollar a minute, and I'll talk to you and tell you the truth. And I won't even keep your money. I'll give it to the poor. I get really frustrated with all that kind of stuff. And part of the thing that frustrates me is, and not every church is. There's a lot of wonderful churches. But a lot of the problem with some of the direction that people are going is the church because they're not telling people that these things are wrong. And I'm sorry, but we are like sheep. Jesus said that. And sheep are not real smart, and they have to have constant direction. And people have to be told, "This is wrong," "That's wrong," "This is right," "This is right". You have to tell them.

Ginger Stache: So, we've talked through, there are countless, there are so many of these lies that sink into our spirit that we could talk about. But we've got this list. And I'm sure everybody who's with us in here today has already thought of their own list. So, what do we do to counteract the lies? What are the steps that we take?

Joyce Meyer: Well, you have to check in the word and see if what you believe is true. You're never going to know the truth. "If you continue, in my word, you will know the truth and the truth will make you free". I would never know the truth if I didn't know the word.

Jai Williams: Yeah. And I think it's important that, even going back to what you're saying with people, like, confronting people on lies, I think because Christians have had such a bad rep like, recently... Not recently, but throughout time, I think it's important when we confront people to, first of all, confront them in love, and also have those scriptures. Like, I wouldn't suggest going to a person and confronting them on a lie that they firmly believe in without having scriptural context to back it up. Like, that's just something, cuz there's a lot of finger-pointing, "Wrong, wrong, wrong". When it's like, "Okay, well then, show me where", a lot of people don't read the Bible. Like, a lot of people don't know scriptures. So, we have to supply that.

Joyce Meyer: And they've already decided that it's an antiquated book, that's out of date. It's not, I mean, "This is the 21st century, Joyce, what's wrong with you"? But, you know, "Everybody does it. So, it can't be wrong if everybody does it". And I always say, "If you're the only person in the whole world that you know that's doing what's right, keep doing it". Because we're on a very much a downhill slide in our society today. And if Christians don't start standing up and really taking a stand for what's right and doing it, there's not too much hope. And when we were talking, you have to know the word, I can guarantee you that probably 60, 70% of people watching the first thing they heard was a lie, which is: "Well, I've tried to read the Bible and I don't understand it". So, I have a suggestion for them. If you really cannot understand the Bible, then listen to people who do understand it. You know, listen to teaching, watch shows like this. Watch shows like my show. Get books that explain the word to you. I've written 150 of 'em, if you can't find any anywhere else. And there are so many different translations of the Bible, not the translation's different, but different versions, more modern versions that you can understand. And so, please don't use that excuse. "Oh, I just don't understand the Bible," you know. I mean, there's some of it I don't understand, you know. I mean, Leviticus. I mean, I read Leviticus as last year, and I thought, "Oh, God, help me get done with this". I mean, 'cause it's all the law, and all these things that people lived under. I'm so glad we don't live like that now. But, I mean, just sitting here talking, I think the devil tells people ten lies a minute. We have to know the truth or we're just in for big trouble.

Jai Williams: Yeah, and I think it's important for when you're in a more joyful state, I think it's important to write those scriptures down or read those books and take those nuggets out. Cuz, like, I've talked about before, when I was going through like, one of the toughest parts of my divorce, I literally used an app and I had scriptures written down that had truths in there. I also had a category, a column that had every truth that I could think of, that countered how I was feeling in it. Because when I did not believe and when I did not have the strength to pull up a book or pull up a, I had the app that was a practical thing for me that I had it right on my phone...

Ginger Stache: Very practical.

Jai Williams: And just would scroll through it and read it out loud. I would read it sometime like, "I am the righteousness of God". Like, I didn't have the joy with it, but at least I read it.

Joyce Meyer: You were fighting the good fight of faith.

Jai Williams: Exactly.

Joyce Meyer: And we have to do that. We have to fight.

Ginger Stache: You have any other thoughts? I just see something in Erin. She's ready to say it.

Erin Cluley: The wheels are spinning. One, I highly recommend, Joyce's book, "Battlefield of the Mind" because it is in our mind, like it just...

Joyce Meyer: Oh, that's, you know...

Erin Cluley: You teaching me that helps me even realize, "Oh, there is a lie there. Who even knew"? So.

Joyce Meyer: When God gave me that understanding it was like, "Wow," because we don't, first of all, we think we can't do anything about what we think.

Erin Cluley: Yes. It's just what it is.

Joyce Meyer: We think that everything we think is true. And we don't realize that, that mind is the area where Satan attacks and tells us those lies.

Erin Cluley: I also think too, just really practically, like, if you've never done this before, it sounds overwhelming. Like just go to the word and believe the promises. "Where are they? Is there like a list on page 2,072"? And you said this before to like Google it. If I am believing that I have to be perfect. Well, Google "What is the Bible say about perfection"? And it's so easy. And then you start your own list like you were talking about. So, there's practical, easy ways to do that.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, it is so much nicer actually, now, with so many resources readily available online, hugely helpful. It makes a big difference. But we have to take the time.

Joyce Meyer: Oh, my gosh! It's so much different today than when I first started trying to dig all this out and get my life straightened out. I mean, I'd have to have a pile of books all around me. Now, you just got a computer and you put in there what you want and poke a button. And sometimes, I don't know that, that's all so good because when you really have to dig, you keep it. It's like, it becomes part of you.

Ginger Stache: But you also have to be careful what comes up on that computer as you're digging as well. Make sure that you are testing everything with God's word. Read it for yourself and pray that God will give you the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to us, like you were talking about, protect us from deception.

Joyce Meyer: You know when I am really glad that I know the truth? When I watch TV.

Ginger Stache: There's a lot of stuff out there.

Joyce Meyer: There is so much junk even on stuff that's supposed to be good. And I many times I'll just think, "Thank you, God, that I know the truth about that". "Thank you, that I know the truth about that". Because it's like, I have this constant discernment or filter going on that, you know, I can take that, but I gotta throw that away.

Ginger Stache: And I just want to encourage everyone who's with us here today. If there are thoughts, if there are things that are playing over and over in your mind that are causing you pain, anxiety, things that you know are not from God, then those are very likely the lies of the devil. So, think about those things that are not sitting right with your spirit and see what God's word says about those things. Know who you are in Jesus. And we do have a free booklet, which is a great way to get started. This is called "What are you thinking"? And Joyce's little booklet gives you a lot of scripture that will help you to begin thinking those things that are in line with God's word, instead of those lies that Satan drops into our lives. You can get it at joycemeyer.org/talkitout. You can also catch up with our past episodes. We hope that you'll tell your friends about the podcast, and we hope that you will be here next time because we've got some fun stuff planned.

Jai Williams: We do.

Ginger Stache: You got some work to do out there, fight back against those lies. Thank you all for sharing your personal experiences. Very, very beneficial, it's very helpful.

Erin Cluley: Thank you, Joyce.

Ginger Stache: We'll see you next time.