Joyce Meyer - No Offense, But...

Ginger Stache: Hi, friends. I was just taken back by how beautiful you all look. Just fabulous! Come on in here! And all of you in here, too, you're all looking so good.

Erin Cluley: Very surprising.

Jai Williams: It was, I'm like...

Joyce Meyer: Wow.

Ginger Stache: I was just caught aback by their beauty.

Jai Williams: I mean, they look great.

Erin Cluley: Yeah.

Joyce Meyer: It really is amazing.

Ginger Stache: I think everyone needs to be told how gorgeous they are 'cause we never see it in ourself, do we?

Erin Cluley: That's so true.

Joyce Meyer: They don't have my rhinestone jeans.

Jai Williams: They don't.

Ginger Stache: Joyce is looking fine today. She's got rhinestones down her jeans. She's got this hot pink jacket. And when I say hot, I mean hot.

Jai Williams: Hot pink.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, blue nails.

Joyce Meyer: Blue nails.

Ginger Stache: She is...

Erin Cluley: I do need to know, Joyce, do you need your toes and your fingernails to match? Do they need to be the same color?

Joyce Meyer: Yes, absolutely. They have to match. I don't...

Erin Cluley: People feel very strongly about that.

Joyce Meyer: I know. I don't do well with not matching.

Erin Cluley: Ok.

Ginger Stache: That's funny. I have to be the opposite.

Erin Cluley: Me too.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, right.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. The way she said that.

Erin Cluley: She's like, "I'm not surprised by that".

Joyce Meyer: That doesn't surprise me at all.

Jai Williams: Like, each one of my fingers is a different color.

Joyce Meyer: That don't surprise me either. But see... I... Being a little bit more mature...

Erin Cluley: Uh-huh.

Ginger Stache: In so many ways.

Joyce Meyer: Than the rest of you, I am still from that era where you just matched.

Erin Cluley: Yeah.

Jai Williams: It looks good on you, though.

Joyce Meyer: And I have a hard time not matching. Actually, you're gonna laugh, but I even, I have to have... My pajamas have to match.

Erin Cluley: That is so cute.

Ginger Stache: Now, Joyce's pajamas look better than most of my normal street clothes.

Jai Williams: I saw one leopard one, and I was like, is that... I'd wear that as an outfit. Put some heels on with it and I'd be out the door.

Joyce Meyer: Pennie helps me unpack on the road. And she said, "Sometimes, I can't tell which are your clothes and which are your pajamas".

Jai Williams: Do you... You switch it up every night, though?

Joyce Meyer: Oh, yeah. I wear a different pair every night.

Erin Cluley: Ok.

Joyce Meyer: And they gotta be... No wrinkles.

Ginger Stache: No wrinkles.

Erin Cluley: Do you iron your pajamas?

Joyce Meyer: I steam them.

Jai Williams: Ooooooh! Good treatment! Her pajamas have better treatment than most of my clothes.

Joyce Meyer: Even though they get wrinkled right away, I have to start out...

Erin Cluley: Ok.

Ginger Stache: Yeah.

Joyce Meyer: With everything right.

Erin Cluley: That is so interesting.

Jai Williams: Have you always been like that?

Joyce Meyer: Pretty much.

Jai Williams: Wow. That's great.

Ginger Stache: It's just so organized and like, detailed, and...

Joyce Meyer: But I'm not that way about everything. Just like...

Ginger Stache: It says a lot, though.

Erin Cluley: It does.

Joyce Meyer: I just...

Erin Cluley: Do you iron your sheets? Your bed sheets.

Joyce Meyer: No.

Erin Cluley: Ok.

Joyce Meyer: But I do like to look good when I go to bed.

Erin Cluley: I mean, Joyce, why not?

Ginger Stache: I'm sure Dave appreciates that too.

Joyce Meyer: Now, I take my makeup off, so I don't look too good.

Ginger Stache: Well, today, we are talking about something that is going to set a lot of people free, I think. It's so important. And when we get down to the nitty gritty of it, it is something that we deal with probably, every single day, in one way or another. We're talking about offense, and how not to be easily offended. How to choose not to take offense. There are so many aspects of this topic. But we're gonna start with Joyce teaching us a little bit about what offense actually means. And then we are going to dig right in and help all of us not live at it.

Joyce Meyer: Now, the Webster's dictionary says, offend means, "To displease". It means, "To make angry". But I like this. It says, "It expresses less than to make angry". It's like, it... In the beginning it's a smaller thing than to be angry. That's why we have to get it when we first feel it. And you know how it feels. It's just like... It's just that little... You just kinda curl your nose up, and... A little bitter... Actually, the truth is, is love is not easily offended. It's amazing how many things we could solve in our lives if we would just focus more on walking in love with other people.

1 Corinthians 13:5, we need to read it. "Love is not conceited. It's not arrogant and inflated with pride. Love is not rude, unmannerly, does not act unbecomingly. Love... God's love in us does not insist on its own rights or its own way. It is not self-seeking". Here it comes: "It is not touchy, or fretful, or resentful. And it just keeps getting stronger. It takes no account of the evil done to it. It pays no attention to a suffered wrong". What kind of things tend to offend us? "Somebody doesn't appreciate my work". Somebody ignores us. "I'm not included in something that I think I should've been included in". "Somebody disagrees with me". "Someone doesn't meet my expectations".

Somebody's inconsiderate. Have to wait in line for someone who's movin' a little slow, waitin' in traffic. Somebody swerves into your parking place you've been waitin' on, not having our opinion appreciated, people who don't believe the way we do even about the God that we all serve. You know, if we were better at this message we wouldn't have 900 different denominations, all who think they're the only ones that are right. I think some of those walls are startin' to come down, and I hope and pray that in my lifetime I'll get to see them come all the way down because, wow, what a force we could be in the earth if we could all just decide to love each other and stop criticizing people who don't think exactly the way we think.

Ginger Stache: Ruckus, applause. Exactly. It's so true. And now, maybe, more than ever, there is so much to be offended by.

Joyce Meyer: Definitely more than any other time.

Ginger Stache: It's crazy. I mean, of course, we've always had our family and our friends who can offend us. But now...

Erin Cluley: Crazy.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, now there's social media. It's crazy full of offense. There's political aspects that are nuts, cultural, the church, as you mentioned. Just so many areas that we could really let this sink in and take root. And so, that's why you've taught so much about it.

Joyce Meyer: But the thing that's interesting is the Bible says in Matthew 24 that in the last days, one of the signs of Christ's coming is that many will be offended, and they'll fall away.

Erin Cluley: So, you mentioned earlier that you are more mature. I'm only saying because you said it. So, in the years that you've lived, does it feel different now than it does in the past? Like, can you see that shift?

Joyce Meyer: Oh, yeah. People today are definitely much more touchy. I mean, say back, like, when I was a teenager, which has been a while ago, people even that weren't believers were still nice. You know, they had manners. Like, they didn't use bad language in front of a woman. I mean, just things that today, people don't think anything all it about. Like, they wouldn't use bad language in front of a woman because it might offend her. And if they did, they would apologize. "Oh, I'm sorry". And people today, are more and more selfish and self-centered. And the more selfish we become, the easier it is to get offended every time something doesn't go the way we want it to go.

Ginger Stache: Yeah.

Jai Williams: I do think it has a lot to do with the current state of technology, too. You know, we have so many different platforms where people don't just see something, they can also offer their opinion: their unsolicited opinion, you know.

Ginger Stache: And without any kind of retribution.

Jai Williams: Yeah. No retribution, no filter, no anything. You know, and then, I saw this other post the other day that said, "Do you remember when your... When a teenager would get to talk to their friend on the phone, that they first typically had to talk to their parent first"?

Erin Cluley: Yes.

Jai Williams: Like you think of even that like...

Ginger Stache: You call, and you say...

Jai Williams: You'd call a landline.

Ginger Stache: "Is so-and-so there"?

Jai Williams: You know, and then, your mom or dad... And you... So even things like that, you... A lot of the generations now, have skipped out on a lot of like, respect, even, those foundations of respect and honoring people. And, you know, so it's easier to get offended because people have fewer... They have more filters, but they have fewer filters when it comes to their opinion and respect. I just thought that was interesting.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah.

Ginger Stache: That's very true. When you look at offense, a lot of it comes down to what we think is out of our control because somebody else did it. You know, "They did this to me". But what we wanna talk about today, I guess, is that we have a choice.

Joyce Meyer: Right.

Ginger Stache: "Are we going to be offended, how do we deal with things"? So, what are some of the things that you guys find, your touchy areas, that you get easily offended by? I know I've got plenty. That was a little giggle. You go first Jai.

Joyce Meyer: Let's hear about yours first since you've got some many.

Ginger Stache: Since I asked. Oh, I definitely do. Ok, so one of mine, you mentioned in your teaching, and that's being left out. I can easily be offended by like, "Oh, everybody did this and I didn't get invited," or, you know, some... "So-and-so didn't tell me something that I thought I should know". And that's always a decision, like, "Ok, am I just gonna let this go"? Or "Am I gonna let it eat me up from the inside"? 'cause that's what offense does. And here's the other one. It's not the only other one, but another one that comes to my mind. When people don't respect or make fun of the elderly or even not that, just old jokes, I can easily be offended by old jokes.

Joyce Meyer: Oh, I was gonna start tellin' old jokes.

Jai Williams: Good thing you didn't.

Ginger Stache: No, no, no. Not just "Old jokes".

Joyce Meyer: I mean, jokes about the elderly.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, there you go. Jokes about, you know, "You're old," and it just... It feels very disrespectful. And I've felt that way, really, my whole life.

Joyce Meyer: I'm glad you told me 'cause I had one coming up.

Ginger Stache: But the older you get too, you know, the more you start to hear. And it's interesting because when I first started working here... I was 39 on the day that I started working here, and I was one of the oldest people, in my area, that I was in charge of. So, right away, it was like, all kinds of old jokes. And I'm like, "I'm 39".

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, right.

Ginger Stache: But then, I had to make that choice, you know, because I love these people. "Am I gonna laugh and go on"? Sometimes, I would say, "Ok, that's enough," you know, and other times you think, "I'm not gonna be offended by this". And other times, I miserably failed, and I was just mad all day long.

Joyce Meyer: Ok, well, one of my big ones is I am a very good communicator. And it really bothers me when people don't communicate. It... You can cause so much work for other people by just not communicating what you really want, what you expect. You're gonna be a little late, you know, whatever the case might be. And...

Ginger Stache: Can you kind of take that personally, like, it's offensive to you?

Joyce Meyer: Well, it just... Yeah, it just really bothers me when people don't respect me enough to communicate...

Ginger Stache: There it is, yeah.

Joyce Meyer: With me. Because when you don't communicate, you are costing somebody else time and trouble. And I know a lot of people just aren't "Natural-born" communicators, but if you're gonna deal with other people, it is something that you need to learn. I mean, how easy is it to say, "I'm gonna be 15 minutes late"?

Jai Williams: Mm hmm.

Joyce Meyer: Instead of just being late.

Jai Williams: Right.

Joyce Meyer: And then, half the time, not even saying, "I'm sorry I'm late". But I had an interesting one this week. I sent an email to somebody. And it was just... It wasn't anything that required an answer. I was just telling them something about me. Like, I've started these stretching classes. I felt like God put it on my heart, it would really be good for me to stay more flexible. So, I'm being stretched with an assistant. In other words, I don't do it myself, they stretch me. Which, I got my first one this week, and she said, "I was just getting to know your body, but I'll warn you, ahead of time, next week is gonna be a little more intense". So, you can all pray for me ahead of time. But... So I just... I text somebody, that's a friend, just to tell 'em what I was gonna do. And here's the thing I want people to understand. I didn't get an answer and it bothered me. It kept, like, kind of coming back to me. "Well..." you know, but then, I realized, so often, we're offended by our own expectation. See, I expected them to answer me, but they may be a busy person that looked at that and thought, "It doesn't require an answer". We're all just so different in the way that we... You know, like, I like somebody to say, "Oh, that's great," or, you know, "Have fun," or, you know. I, at least, wanna know that you...

Ginger Stache: "Nice to hear from you, gumby".

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, that you got my... That, you know, the little heart thing on the top or whatever. Just something to let me know that you got it. Because if I don't hear back... If I don't hear anything back, then I don't know if they got it. I don't know if they don't care. So, to me, that comes across as a lack of communication. But, I really thought about that this morning since this is what we're gonna be talking about. And I believe that I have the answer to not being offended.

Ginger Stache: Share it.

Erin Cluley: The whole answer?

Ginger Stache: We need it.

Joyce Meyer: Pretty much.

Erin Cluley: Well, we'll take it.

Joyce Meyer: Pretty much. You want it now?

Erin Cluley: Yeah, right now.

Joyce Meyer: I think, at least the largest part of the answer is to always believe the best.

Erin Cluley: Mm hmm.

Ginger Stache: That is huge.

Erin Cluley: It would change everything if that's how we viewed anything.

Joyce Meyer: I mean, it would because instead of me thinking that person just ignored that and just didn't care anything about what I was telling them. I know it's somebody that loves me, so I don't think they would do that anyway. But then, I thought, "Ok, what are the other possibilities"? Well, this is a very busy person, so "Maybe they got 25 emails that day and they intended to answer me, but then, another one came in, another one came in, another one came in". And... But it's funny how offense is. It's like, when you've got that offense in your heart, the thing that bothers you will just keep kinda coming back. It'll just nag at you a little bit, a little bit, little bit, a little bit. And... But I really do believe that, that's the largest part of the answer is: we have a choice to believe the worst or to believe the best. To be suspicious or to be loving. And even if the other person was being rude to me, I'm only helping myself by believing the best.

Ginger Stache: That's right, yeah.

Erin Cluley: We've had that conversation. My husband and I, so often, when... We'll get in little tiffs, and if you... If we have stopped and said, "Back up," like, "I am for you, we're on the same team, here," and having that same conversation to believe the best about me, "My intentions really were good". It's amazing how that kind of backtracks whatever you're talking about. And it does change.

Joyce Meyer: I remember Dave saying to me one time, "Why do you always act like I'm your enemy"?

Erin Cluley: Yeah. Yeah, because I expect you to be sometimes.

Joyce Meyer: Well, Dave, he's really... He really... He's a protector. And he really wants to take care of me and make sure that I don't get hurt. Well, I'm very independent.

Ladies: No.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, very independent. And so, I would take it... Let's just say, like, for example, and he'll even do it now, if I'm going down a set of steps, he'll say, "Now, hold onto the banister".

Erin Cluley: That would irk me so much. "I can walk, thank you".

Joyce Meyer: See, like, before, I would think, "Well, I'm not stupid," you know. I would take it like he thought I was stupid. And so, it's interesting how a lot of times when we're offended, it's not because somebody's done something to us. It's because of the way we're taking it or because our expectation wasn't met, and maybe they didn't even know that we had that expectation of them.

Ginger Stache: That's so true. How many times have I said, "Don't you think I know that"?

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, right.

Ginger Stache: Because he's trying to be helpful, but it's really easy to take it in that way that you're offended where it's like, you know, "I've got this. You don't have to treat me like a child". When that's not what he's doing at all.

Joyce Meyer: I almost got Dave a father's day card this year, because he acts like my dad. I've started saying, "Yes, dad". He'll say, "Did you take your probiotic this morning"? And if I didn't take it, he'll get it and bring it to me, and put it in my mouth.

Ginger Stache: And see, he's... And put it... Oh, that was maybe one too far.

Joyce Meyer: I mean, it's just...

Ginger Stache: "Swallow".

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, "Swallow". "Are you drinking water"? I was having a little tummy problem the other day, and he said, "Did you eat sugar after you ate your dinner"? And I said, "No, dad".

Joyce Meyer: But the thing that's so interesting is how many years, I mean, years that would offend me and bother me, because I totally took it wrong. His heart was 100 percent right. And I was taking it completely wrong because of insecurities in me...

Ginger Stache: That's a big word in this is, isn't it? Insecurities.

Joyce Meyer: From my dysfunctional past.

Erin Cluley: The thing that causes me to feel offense is similar to what you're just saying. If I am made to feel dumb. Like, if you do something that makes me feel stupid, or I think that you think I'm stupid, nothing causes me to rise up, my nose stick up like you said.

Joyce Meyer: "Now, what do you think I am, stupid"?

Erin Cluley: Yeah. Like, "I am a smart, independent lady. I can do things by myself, and I know things," so that... And that is my own insecurity. I can feel that in me. There's something inside of me that causes me to, I don't know, feel not good enough or...

Joyce Meyer: It is really amazing how many problems being insecure causes us.

Ladies: Yeah.

Ginger Stache: I never really connected that with offense, but it makes complete sense.

Jai Williams: Yeah. Insecurity and triggers from trauma. Like what you said, like, even like, your past, there's a reason why you're this independent woman. You've had to be for so long and so it's a process of growing, and maturing, and living life, and letting your guard down to be able to receive that love again. Because I know, even now, like, that's a big deal for me. And so, like, even one of the biggest things that offend me and irk me and get on my nerves is people telling me how I should heal. Like, that bothers me, even though I know that they... I guess they mean well, like, they want me to be happy or whatever. But "You should do this, and you should do that, and you should". And I'm like, "You should be quiet". I'm like, we need to talk about offense because, I just... I get like that, but a lot of times it's typically when it's unsolicited opinions, or people trying to be kind, overly kind about sensitive areas, you know, that we're healing from. And, you know, and another one of mine, which I'm a shorter person, I'm only 5 1 and I'm a black woman. And so, when people say things that make me feel tiny or if something that makes me feel like a stereotype, I instantly get defensive. Like, it's like, "I am not"! But I am loud. I do know that. Like, I know I'm loud, but I don't like when people tell me that because then I'm like, "Don't call me a stereotype 'cause I'm..." you know, but you know what I mean? So, it's things like that, that... It might even fit my personality and they don't mean any harm. But because of triggers from historical things in our country or, you know, just things that hurt that it could trigger me and make me offended and defensive when it's somebody that loves me and it really is me, you know? So, yeah.

Joyce Meyer: You know, I think, if we really think about it, how many people do you think get up every day and think, "I'm gonna see how many people I can offend today"?

Ginger Stache: I could think of a few, maybe.

Jai Williams: Right, or several!

Joyce Meyer: No, I mean...

Ginger Stache: But not generally. You're right. That is not how it works.

Joyce Meyer: Seriously, what I'm trying to say is, is we always take it like well... Like, "You're doing this on purpose". And they don't even know they're doing it most of the time.

Jai Williams: Exactly.

Joyce Meyer: That's where... Now, maybe, they're not using wisdom. You know, like they're giving you advice you don't want. But you can choose to believe, "They're really just trying to help me".

Jai Williams: Exactly.

Joyce Meyer: You know, even though you don't necessarily want to be helped. And that was the thing with Dave. It was like he was always trying to help me, and I'm like, "I don't want to be helped. I can do this myself".

Ginger Stache: Right.

Joyce Meyer: And I'm a little impatient... Well, no, I'm a lot impatient. And so, sometimes, I had to wait on him to come to help me and I wanted to just get it over with.

Ginger Stache: "So, help me when I want it right away, but don't help me when I don't".

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, right. Exactly. You hit it on the head. "If I want your help, I want it right now".

Ginger Stache: Well, you said something that I think is so true is, is the way that offense gnaws at you because I can hear something and right away decide, "I know they didn't mean it that way," and move on. But later that night...

Joyce Meyer: Oh, yeah.

Ginger Stache: You start replaying the conversation, and then, you think, "Well, wait a minute, maybe... Maybe they did mean it that way". And it just nags at you. And it goes away and comes back. How do you deal with that?

Joyce Meyer: I even found myself, last night... Now, this is really telling on myself, but I looked up that email...

Ginger Stache: "Did I not hit send," right?

Joyce Meyer: To see...

Jai Williams: "Maybe she got..."

Joyce Meyer: No wait. To see how long ago it was that I sent it, to see how many days that it had been that they hadn't answered me.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. No, we've all done that.

Joyce Meyer: We've all got our stuff. But this is what this is all about. And, you know, people can take some of this and it can really help 'em, if they will. Because the thing is, is by taking offense, and the Bible does say, "Don't take offense". It's always gonna be offered. We can choose to take it or not to take it. But by taking it, we only make ourselves miserable. Because I would venture to say 99 percent of the time, they don't have any idea they hurt our feelings.

Jai Williams: Exactly. And that's one of the things that, when you said that earlier, before we started, when you said about taking offense, like, it's our option to take it, you know, or to like... It's because we're human and it's natural to say like, "Oh, this... That hurt my feelings". That's normal. And if it's someone you love, I believe in Matthew 18, saying... You know saying, "Hey, that kind of hurt my feelings when you said that". But I've also... I'm learning... I'm still in the process of learning, I'm growing in this area, when I do get offended, when those thoughts... 'cause those thoughts, like, replaying it and then trying to figure out the intention and be like, "Because she said this, and she said... Oh, she said that, and oh," you know, and then it's like, "And that's why she did that, and that's why he did..." you know. And so, then, I start playing it out. But what I've stopped... Learned to do when those thoughts keep coming up, I like, take a breath, and I'm just like, "God," like, "Help me".

Joyce Meyer: Right.

Jai Williams: "Help me to let go. Help me to forgive and help me to believe the best". Because that's something I love about you, g, like, you're always just like, "I'm just gonna try to believe the best". And I'm like, "Ugh! Help me," you know? So, I literally ask for help when those situations coming.

Joyce Meyer: It helps me when I believe the best. Even if I'm not doing it for the other person, I've learned that everything that God tells us to do in his word is for us. It's actually just for our... I actually read that in the scriptures this morning, that "I'm giving you all these commandments for your good". Everything that he tells us is for our good. So, to believe the best, allows me to go ahead and be happy, even if they intended to be rude to me. Yeah.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, don't give 'em that.

Joyce Meyer: You know, just don't give 'em that.

Jai Williams: It's stressful to like, try to be the investigator trying to figure out, put all the...

Ginger Stache: Oh, yeah.

Jai Williams: It's stressful! Like, I'm like, man, it's just... When you're trying to figure out.

Ginger Stache: Like a corkboard, with pictures, and string.

Jai Williams: Yeah, like trying to put all the pieces together "Because that's what happened... And this is what she said... That what she saw that... And he said..." it's just stressful. So, like, now, I'm just like, "No," like, "I believe..." "God, help me to believe the best in this situation and help me to let this go," cuz too much on me.

Ginger Stache: Something else that has really helped me is making the conscious decision not to tell other people.

Jai Williams: Oh, yeah.

Ginger Stache: Because...

Joyce Meyer: That's very good.

Ginger Stache: That's when you're like, "Well, maybe I shouldn't feel that way, I'm gonna ask so-and-so". And then, your friends are gonna say, "I can't believe they said that" because we defend one another. But if I don't speak it out loud as an offense, it takes a lot of the power away from it, and it doesn't give us that opportunity to hash it over with someone else.

Joyce Meyer: It's even worse when we try to spiritualize our gossip. And say, "Now, I'm only telling you this because I want you to pray.

Erin Cluley: Oh, we do that so well in the church.

Joyce Meyer: I bet God's going, "Mm hmm, yeah".

Erin Cluley: Just to be real honest, about this topic, when I was thinking about like, "Why do I feel offended sometimes"? My pride is a really big part of it. Because in that moment, when I... I can feel, "Erin, here's your moment, you can let it go or you can pick it up and run with that offense". So, I can feel it very clearly. My pride will rise up, and I will think, "They are wrong, and I will not let them off the hook," that they don't know that they're on. But I feel like I'm empowering them if I forget, or if...

Joyce Meyer: Well, what you're saying is really important because pride is a large part of this, just like insecurity because, you know, pride kinda says, "Well, you know, I'm too important for you to treat me that way".

Erin Cluley: It's exactly what my inside says.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, "I want you to know what I know". "I want you to know who I really am, not how it seems you're treating me". I get that completely.

Joyce Meyer: And that all goes back to insecurity, doesn't it?

Erin Cluley: Yeah, it does.

Jai Williams: A hundred percent.

Joyce Meyer: It all feeds right back into that. There's an area of offense that I think would be really helpful to people. If you look at the definition, of course, there's several different ones, but one of them is arguing, heated arguing, and an angry undercurrent. And I think that angry undercurrent is the most dangerous. Like I attended a church, long time ago, that was literally destroyed by strife. And the Bible, I think it's in Hebrews, talks about that if you don't get rid of strife, you and your entire fellowship will be eaten up with it. It's like, you know, a little pacman cancer, it just goes around, you know, everybody's gossiping about the pastor, or you know, you thought you should be the worship leader and you didn't get picked, and so... And... But it's all that stuff that's behind-the-scenes. And everybody, you know, smiles at each other and "Oh, praise the Lord, we're all happy". And that is the most dangerous thing because, as you know, here, we deal with strife. I mean, that was one of the things that God put on my heart when he called me into ministry, is that I was to do, if I wanted to be successful, was "Keep the strife out of your life, out of your ministry, out of your marriage, do what you do with excellence, and always be a person of integrity".

Ginger Stache: That's why the pajamas are ironed.

Joyce Meyer: That's right. That's right. And so, we have really striven over these years to keep that here. We still talk about it.

Ginger Stache: It's definitely a priority.

Joyce Meyer: It's one of our core values. And if we have somebody working for us that causes strife, and some people do. They just... They cause strife. I mean, they just... They're not smart enough to ever keep their mouth shut.

Ginger Stache: Take offense at everything and then talk about it.

Joyce Meyer: They take offense. Then it goes from person to person to person. And every time you tell somebody something bad about somebody else, you know what I've learned? Even if I don't wanna believe it, they have still affected my opinion about that person, and it makes it harder for me to not be suspicious about them. So, we're really... It's really dangerous. Gossip is really dangerous. And so that angry undercurrent just... And it kills the anointing. The Bible says, in Psalm 133 that where there's unity, there's blessing and anointing. And so, this ministry can't be blessed, there can't be a strong anointing on it, which really, that's what we have. That's what breaks the bondages off of people is God's anointing, which is his presence and power. And believe it or not, the Holy Spirit is easily offended because he's gentle like a dove and he... In Ephesians starting in 4:29 going, you know, through 39... 30, 31 and into the next chapter, it tells you the things that offend the Holy Spirit, that grieve and vex and offend the Holy Spirit. And one of them is this anger and this kinda stuff that we're talking about. So, if we want the Holy Spirit to be strong on our ministry or on our lives, then we have to keep the offense out of our lives.

Ginger Stache: That's huge. I think even what that... That statement that it kills the anointing, I mean we all want to be anointed to do what God wants us to do. We want our families to be strong. We want to be strong as leaders, and mothers, and teachers, and in the workplace, whatever it is we need to do and if this is one of those things that squelches the potential that God has put in us, then I don't want that.

Joyce Meyer: I mean, if you read those scriptures about don't vex, sadden, or offend the Holy Spirit, I mean, it really is sad when you think about it, that he just wants us to be at peace and to love each other, and to trust him. And, you know, all this hatred, and anger, and gossip, and all the junk that's on social media, and the accusations, and talking about... Saying things about people you don't even know anything about, it's like... It really, really, really needs to stop.

Ginger Stache: So, in a culture like this, in a time that we're in right now, where we really are living in a society that's just walking on the edge of offense, all the time, how do we deal with it? What things have you guys seen that have been helpful in your own life?

Erin Cluley: I just want to say, I think it goes along with your question to, having worked here for a long time, and I remember when I started hearing those words, "Here's the core values of the ministry". And I thought, "Oh, well, that sounds lovely". Like, "I would like that," but I didn't... Lots of things sound really nice so I thought, "That must be something that people say because it's looks nice on the building". But to see that actually played out every day that I've been here, for all those years, is exactly what we need to do as a people in society, where we have hard conversations. And if you offend me, I'm gonna tell you and we're gonna talk about it. We don't let things go and just put a band-aid over it. We're gonna address it or figure it out, but you don't just pretend everything's ok. And I think that's what... That plays a big part in society.

Ginger Stache: And have the conversation with the goal of resolution and forgiveness. It's not just, "I'm gonna tell you because I'm gonna feel better that you know".

Erin Cluley: It's all about where your heart is.

Ginger Stache: Exactly.

Erin Cluley: How are you positioning your heart when you have this conversation?

Joyce Meyer: Well, our staff pastor, pastor mike, he's actually in charge of conflict resolution. In other words, we're not... We can't put up with it. I can't do what God has called me to do and do it successfully. There are too many people in the world that are lost, too many people that are hurting, that have got wounds on the inside of them that are bleeding and open sores, and we're called to help them, and the... And it's the anointing that destroys the yoke of bondage. It's not me. It's not you. It's not our fancy TV show. It's just, you know, those are all just ways to get the anointing to people. And really probably a lot of people listening, right now, don't even know what the anointing is. And that's what's sad. It's the presence of God on something and the power of God on something that makes it work. And I always say, "I don't do anything fancy: I talk". And if it's not anointed, I'm in trouble. And it's that anointing that goes beyond people's brain and gets down in their heart and convinces them. So, we will... If we cannot bring somebody out of being strifeful here, we won't keep 'em. Because they'll spread it to somebody else and spread it to somebody else. And how many households, how many marriages, how many siblings, how many places of employment... You know, because we have that peaceful atmosphere here, I mean, we have longevity. I mean, people stay here. I mean, we've got, I don't know how many people been here...

Erin Cluley: You can't get rid of us.

Joyce Meyer: 25 years, and 20 years, and 15 years. And we just... We don't have a big turnover rate. And part of it is they love the atmosphere. Ginger asked a question and I think we kinda got off track. You wanted to know what we could do in this society...

Erin Cluley: Ginger wants to change the world over here.

Joyce Meyer: To help this situation.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, exactly.

Joyce Meyer: And it really... No one of us can solve the whole situation. I mean, as a ministry, we can do things like we are doing. You know, like I've written a book for this fall, "Loving people that are hard to love". We're talking about this subject today. We're teaching about this. But it has to be an individual decision that people make. And so, each of us have to make it for ourselves, hoping and praying that what we're saying today is... I hope some eyes are being opened and people are seeing, "Oh, my gosh, that's why we're having all these problems". And see, people... You can have that angry undercurrent, that hidden strife in your family, and I can tell you, it will affect the blessings on your life. And so, then, people wonder why they're not blessed or, you know, things are always breaking down in their house or, you know, and... I mean, I believe that we open a door for the enemy when we stay in strife. Because God loves us. He forgives us. He's merciful. He always is the God of a second chance. He believes the best in us. And he expects us to give to others what he's given to us.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, with the way things are right now, in our world, I can watch the news at home and get offended very, very quickly. We were recently on a vacation, and, you know, they have all these cheap t-shirt shops for, you know, gifts to take home or whatever. And I saw t-shirts that I was offended by. I mean, they were ridiculous. T-shirts, and what they said, it was just so offensive.

Joyce Meyer: I've had the same thing happen.

Ginger Stache: Uh...And yes, there's righteous indignation. I mean, some of that is different. But there comes a point where we can let so many things grab on to our lives and just keep us in an offended state of being. And what I've really had to figure out is that in the beginning, offense have shallow roots. So, if I keep pulling it out, then I'm so much better because those roots can get really deep. And then, if I pull out offense, right away, I don't have to deal with deep forgiveness issues later. So, it's something that I've had to find, in the way the world is today, and everything else, just life in general. Like we were talking about, people who don't mean to say things the way that I take them, just pulling those little, tiny... Little, tiny weeds out before they become great big, giant rooted trees.

Joyce Meyer: And, you know what? People in the world that don't know Christ, they are hurting so bad. And a lot of what comes out of them is just out of their own inner pain. And it is really good if you can grow to the point of, say you get a cranky clerk. Well, you know, really, when you go in a store and you're gonna spend money there, I mean, you should be treated respectfully. But that doesn't always happen. Sometimes people are grouchy, or cranky, or whatever. And how much easier is it just to believe, you know, "I have no... I don't know what she's going through, right now. I don't know, you know, maybe, her husband just left her with four kids, and she doesn't know what she's going to do, or maybe, she just got a report that she has cancer". You know, we don't know why people come across that way. And every person that we run across like that, it is an opportunity to tell them, you know, "God loves you. And I can see you're having a little bit of a hard day. And I just want you to know that God loves you". Well, see, a lot of us don't want to do that because then we might be a little bit embarrassed or, you know, whatever. But it's... We're not helping the situation at all if we just... "Bleaah" you know, right back at them, which is our natural impulse. "Well, you're not gonna talk to me that way".

Jai Williams: Yeah. One of the things I do, when I get encounters like that, I typically find something to compliment 'em on.

Ladies: Yeah.

Jai Williams: You know, and usually shifts the environment.

Joyce Meyer: That's very good.

Jai Williams: You know, like, I find something.

Erin Cluley: You're good at that.

Jai Williams: Like, if it's something... Especially if it's somebody that I'm like, "Oh, look at your nails, girl," you know, like something like that. And that small thing, instead of taking offense in that moment, and giving a compliment, it'll change the whole...

Joyce Meyer: I had that exact same thing happen to me about three weeks ago. I went to have blood drawn. And I have very tiny veins and they roll. And there's only a few places where they can really get blood out of me. And so, I started trying to tell this girl where they were, and she said, "Now, let me do my job".

Erin Cluley: Oh...

Joyce Meyer: And so, she was gonna go somewhere else. I said, "You're not gonna find a vein there". She said, "Now, let me do my job".

Joyce Meyer: I was offending her. And so, then, I did just what you said. I changed it, and I said, "How long have you been doing this"? And she told me. I said, "I bet you are really, really good at this, if you've been doing that, that many years". And it completely changed the atmosphere.

Jai Williams: A quick... Quick little compliment will change the atmosphere. I do have a question. It's a little... It's a little tough one, though, but...

Joyce Meyer: Well, good, ask it to one of somebody else.

Jai Williams: Mm-mm, I'm lookin' over at you with the hot pink on. No, but anybody. We talk... You talked about it in the clip that we showed earlier about having so much division even in the church, if... If we weren't so offended, we wouldn't have, like you said, like, "900 different denominations".

Joyce Meyer: Right.

Jai Williams: In this day and time, like, not only are we at war, it seems like, with the world, it seems like a lota Christians are at war with each other.

Ginger Stache: That's so true.

Jai Williams: So, what do we do as believers, and our friends, that are watching, what do we do to help bridge those gaps? Because it's so divided right now.

Joyce Meyer: Does somebody else want that, or do I need to take it?

Jai Williams: Look at her fingers.

Ginger Stache: Well, you know, when you're sitting right here.

Joyce Meyer: I don't wanna hog the whole show, but I'm ready.

Jai Williams: It's got your name on it.

Ginger Stache: She's itchin'

Joyce Meyer: If you don't want it, I'll take it.

Ginger Stache: It's all yours.

Joyce Meyer: What was the question?

Jai Williams: The church is divided.

Joyce Meyer: Oh, yes. That's what happens when you're mature.

Jai Williams: Yes, we're very divided. And churches against churches, denomination against denomination, because of, government, you know, and different things, there are just things that are dividing us as believers.

Joyce Meyer: It has to be an individual decision. And all big, amazing, powerful movements start with one person. And so, one person can start turning things around. And I think we even need to get bold enough to speak the truth in love. See, we don't do much of that either. It's like, so if somebody comes to you... Like, I had somebody call me... It's been a couple of years ago now. And they told me something about a minister that's a friend of mine, that I know very well. And they said, "Well, did you know that..." blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, "Wait a minute". I said, "Number one, I do not believe that. Not for one second. I don't believe it". But I said, "I'll tell you what I am gonna do. I'm gonna get off this phone and I'm gonna call her and ask her". And sure enough, it was just a bunch of gossip that had just... And so, I called her back, which she really shouldn't have been calling me and telling me anyway. But I called her back and I said, "Whoever told you this, you need to call them and tell them that they're totally wrong because it is absolutely not true". So, I think, sometimes, we need to, instead of just listening to it, we need to get a little bit feisty, and say, "You know, let's don't go there. Let's just walk in love and believe the best". And you know, or let's pray for that person. You know, I think we have to make a decision to not just jump in the middle of it. And the problem is, and this sounds awful, but the flesh likes it.

Ginger Stache: Oh, yeah.

Erin Cluley: Absolutely.

Joyce Meyer: "Gossip, ew, what? What? Have you heard? What? What"? You know, and we need... So, I think it has to be a one-on-one movement. And if nobody else does their part, we're still responsible to do ours.

Ginger Stache: What you said about the Holy Spirit being grieved, I mean, what could be more effective for the enemy than to get offense just completely wound throughout our churches and our Christian people?

Joyce Meyer: That's right.

Ginger Stache: So, you know, it is one of those things that we know we have to fight back individually, like you were saying, and really asking God to help us. And I'm always asking God, "Lord, help me know truth," cuz truth seems so hidden, right now.

Joyce Meyer: Yes, yes.

Ginger Stache: Help me to know what you're really wanting me to see. And for me, a big thing, being slow to anger, cuz I can be angry like that. Praying that I can be slow to anger, slow to speak, but to speak the truth with love when I'm supposed to. So, just a few things to pray about.

Joyce Meyer: Sometimes, we do need to just be quiet for a while and pray. I think we do need to wait on God's timing and pray for people. Because many times, God will solve the problem, if we don't get in the middle of it. But then, there is a time to speak up and to do it in love.

Jai Williams: I do think one of the reasons why... And I'm... Social media is what I do. Like, I do marketing, too. So, like, I'm not like, anti social media, but I do believe that social media does like, add fuel to the fire.

Ginger Stache: Absolutely.

Jai Williams: Because I think... I told one of my friends, who used to really like to gossip. And I'm like, "That's why you like social media because you're nosy," you know, like, "You just wanna scroll and scroll, and so you can see, 'ew, she had the baby. Ew, the baby is ugly'".

Jai Williams: You know, like she has something to say.

Ginger Stache: Oh my! Joyce almost did a spit take.

Joyce Meyer: Don't make me spit my perrier across the room.

Jai Williams: She just likes the gossip. She just wanna put her two cents on everything.

Joyce Meyer: Social media does a lot of good. I'm grateful I can preach the gospel on social media. And I believe God gave it as a tool for that. But like everything else, Satan gets in and tries to misuse it. And it really is becoming so sad, the things that people say about other people. And you have no recourse to fight back. And it's just, you know, it's not fair. We had... I was just out of town recently, went to Branson for a few days, and I had two different people come up to me and say, "Oh, I saw your infomercial last night about the diet program you're selling". And so... And we've been fighting this for a while. Somebody's on there selling this diet plan and saying it's mine. And I told 'em...

Ginger Stache: And it's completely not. So, anyone who's seeing this stuff. This is a great opportunity to tell everyone... It is completely bogus. It is not Joyce.

Joyce Meyer: I said, "It's a total scam. I am preaching the gospel. I am not selling diet pills. That's not what I'm doing". And they're like, "Oh, I'm so glad you told me that". I mean, we've had people call and get mad because they couldn't get their diet pills from us.

Ginger Stache: It's true. They're offended by it.

Joyce Meyer: They are, that we advertised. But it's not just me. It's happening to other ministers, too.

Ginger Stache: Oh, so many, yeah.

Joyce Meyer: It's like, I feel so sorry for people that, that's all they have to do with their time, is just sit around and do that kind of stuff and try to cause other people problems. I am so thankful that I have got something to do that is helping people.

Ginger Stache: It's a sneaky, sneaky world, right now. And so, our goal and what we want to leave everyone with, all of our friends who've been talking it out with us, is in this coming week to try to be unoffendable. And it doesn't mean, like Jai said, sweeping it under the rug. It's dealing with the things that we need to deal with. It's believing the best in people and choosing to be unoffendable. And just give it your best shot. Pray that God will help you, and we'll see how it goes. But great conversation, you all. Thank you very much.

Joyce Meyer: We gave a lot of good advice today. And I think a lot of people are gonna get some nuggets that are gonna really help set them free.

Ginger Stache: I think so too. And if you want even more, if you go to joycemeyer.org/talkitout, we have joyce's book for you, called, "Do yourself a favor, forgive". It's really good and it goes really well along with this topic. You can go there and check that book out. And we're just grateful that you are all here with us, today, and looking so good.

Ladies: So good.

Joyce Meyer: And you got to see my jeans.

Ginger Stache: We will see everyone next time.

Ladies: Bye.