Joyce Meyer - Love, Joy and Self-Control

TOPICS: Talk It Out, Fruit of the Spirit, Love, Joy, Self-Control

Ginger Stache: Hi friends. Welcome to Joyce Meyer's Talk it Out podcast. Where Joyce teaches the Word of God in her practical, no-nonsense way. And my friends and I, talk about the real stuff of living it, and we hold nothing back. I'm Ginger Stache, with Erin Cluley and Jai, three friends, who are all in very different stages of life, but know the importance of having honest, loving women around you. And when we need a little extra help, our wonderful friend, ms. Joyce, is here, like she is today, to walk us through.

Joyce Meyer: They are needing more and more help.

Ginger Stache: Yes, it's true. There is no denying. Yeah, pretty soon it's gonna be like an everyday occurrence.

Joyce Meyer: Right now, it's once a month, so.

Ginger Stache: So, consider yourself one of the girls, come on in here, and let's talk it out. Last week, we started by the Fruit of the Spirit, beginning with talking about the Fruit of the Spirit. And that is all about what God's spirit gives us, but we are responsible to help cultivate it, and make it grow in our life. Joyce, we hit some really good stuff last week and you're gonna help us finish a long list of all the rest.

Joyce Meyer: I started, I told you earlier, there's no way we're gonna get to all of those.

Ginger Stache: Last week, if you missed it, we talked about peace, patience, and humility. And it, honestly, it was kind of ouchie.

Erin Cluley: It was painful.

Ginger Stache: A little painful. But Jai, just for you...

Jai Williams: I see.

Ginger Stache: We've got some guacamole and chips.

Jai Williams: I see we've got guacamole.

Ginger Stache: 'Cuz she talked about being an avocado. That's her fruit.

Joyce Meyer: Oh. So, we have six fruit left, and I can promise you we're not going to get to all of them.

Ginger Stache: We do. We have love, joy, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and, eeek, self-control.

Joyce Meyer: Well, I have something funny we want to show the people. My youngest grandson, I have 12 grandchildren. And my youngest one, a little over two years old, his mother's teaching him, the Fruit of the Spirit. And you have to look at this, and see what he said.

Female: Can we say the Fruit of the Spirit? Love.
Boy: Self-control.
Female: Joy.
Boy: Self-control.
Female: Peace.
Boy: Self-control.
Female: Patience.
Boy: Self-control.
Female: Kindness.
Boy: Self-control.
Female: Goodness.
Boy: Self-control.
Female: Gentleness.
Boy: Self-control.
Female: Faithfulness.
Boy: Faithfulness.
Female: And self-control.

Joyce Meyer: I think that's hilarious. Every one of 'em was self-control till he got to self-control, and then he wouldn't say anything.

Ginger Stache: Isn't that the way it is with self-control.

Jai Williams: When you actually have to use it, then it's like, "Naaa".

Erin Cluley: I'll tell you all about it.

Jai Williams: I'll talk about it.

Joyce Meyer: I thought it was funny, at two and a half, he already knows, every one of 'em takes self-control.

Jai Williams: Yeah, that's very true.

Ginger Stache: That is so fun. I love to see the way children assimilate these things. 'Cuz they really pick up on a lot of stuff, but that little twist is always very fun. And if I was going to talk about the Fruit of the Spirit, I might do the opposite, and just leave out self-control.

Erin Cluley: Pretend it doesn't list,not part of the list.

Ginger Stache: It is pretty important though. You talked before, Joyce, about how that the bookends of love and self-control...

Joyce Meyer: I was gonna mention that. Like, you start,and, I think, all of the Fruit of the Spirit comes out of love. I mean, you're not gonna do any of the rest of 'em, if you don't love. But then, self-control, the last one, is like, what holds 'em all in place. It like, sometimes, love tells me to be kind, but I've used self-control to be kind. And love always tells us to be humble, but we sure need self-control for that. And so...

Jai Williams: The baby's got it right.

Joyce Meyer: I consider the two of them to be, two that we need to talk about a lot. Because really, the rest of them, if you've got the love and the self-control, and you have a desire to do the rest of them, it's pretty easy.

Ginger Stache: Let me ask you this question, because a lot of people talk about the gifts of the spirit. You know, we all either want the gifts, or we're afraid of the gifts because we don't understand them, whatever that might be. But I think it's really important to distinguish between the two. So, we're gonna start, right now, with a little clip from your teaching that just helps explain this so well, the difference between the gifts and the fruit. Take a listen.

Joyce Meyer: In God's kingdom, we are not known or applauded by the gifts that God gives us, but what God looks for is fruit. He looks for character. He says you will know them by their fruit. The world admirers gifts. Boy, if you can do something that the world think is great, you're in. But God admires character. Gifts are easy, they're given. We're not better than one another because we can do something that someone else can't do. We must learn to live deeper. "Either make the tree sound (healthy and good), and its fruit sound (healthy and good), or make the tree rotten (diseased and bad), and its fruit rotten (diseased and bad): for the tree is known and recognized and judged by its fruit," fruit. We need to learn how to be fruit inspectors. We need to live deeper. We need to look deeper, at the people's lives that we're around and the people that we get hooked up with. You know, a peach tree, you know that a peach tree is a peach tree because it bears peaches, right? A peach tree doesn't go around with a megaphone yelling, "I'm a peach tree. I'm a peach tree. Yo, look at me. I'm a peach tree". "Yeah, well, where's your peaches"? Well, that's what happens with Christians. "Oh, I'm a Christian. I say hallelujah, praise the Lord. Thank you, Jesus. I cast out devils. Whoa-ho. I'm a Christian". Yeah, well, where's your fruit? You're known by your fruit. Are you helping anybody? Are you patient? Are you loving people? Are you a giver? Are you quick to apologize? Are you gentle? Are you faithful? Are you sticking with something and refusing to give up on anything? How do you treat people? Those are the things that are important to God. Somebody say, amen. Audience: amen.

Ginger Stache: Amen.

Joyce Meyer: Amen.

Ginger Stache: I love that you went deeper with the Fruit of the Spirit because it's easy to run through them: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, and just kind of gloss over them. But you got into forgiveness. I mean, the things that come out of the fruit are the things that we have to do. So, when you're talking about living deeper, I think that's so important, and not just seeking after those gifts, but being who he wants us to be.

Joyce Meyer: I went through a phase, I was in the church when there was a phase going through about the gifts of the spirit. And everybody wanted to know what their gift was. "What's your gift? What's my gift? Let's compare gifts". And God just began to show me that it's, you don't know people by their gifts. I mean, my gift to teach and preach is a gift that God gave me. You know, so if you read in Romans 12, it says, "Don't think more highly of yourself than you ought to". And it talks about the gifts. And so, we have to realize that, you know, Jai sings, I preach, Ginger has a lot of creative gifts, Erin has a lot of creative gifts. We don't all have the same gifts, but they're not our gifts. They're really gifts that God has given us. So, we don't need to compare ourselves with one another. Yes, we want to use our gifts. But gifts are given, fruit is not given. The seed of fruit is given, but it has to grow. And like, for example, humility is a fruit that only grows under trial. You can't...

Erin Cluley: That's the truth.

Joyce Meyer: I'm sorry, I had it wrong, patience. Patience,it comes from a Greek word, that says as you,it only grows under trial. And that's why people don't ever want to pray for patience. Because they know if they pray for patience, you'll get a problem that you have to solve.

Ginger Stache: I actually, had that, on the way here, today. Why is that, that the whenever we talk about something, we're going to start getting tempted or tried or just to, just God saying, "Are you actually gonna do this or you just going to talk about it to somebody else"? So, I had two people pull out in front of me today, on my way to work, so hard that I had to slam on the brakes. Everything went flying to the front of the car. You know, the first time, you're like, "Okay, thank you, God". The second time you're like, "What is going on"? And so, trying that patience, I'll tell you, and I'll be honest, I did not pass with flying colors.

Joyce Meyer: You didn't pass? Do we have to go back and talk about patience again?

Ginger Stache: Well, I'll just keep working on it, personally, 'cuz it's such a big thing.

Joyce Meyer: I think all of us, will work on all of them at different times in our life.

Erin Cluley: I thought it was so interesting, when you talk about that, how the fruit is what is most important, that's what we need to focus on. When you look at scriptures, that's what Jesus is teaching us to do. He's not telling me, "Here Erin, here is how you be a more creative person at your job". He cares. And I can find scripture to help me be a leader. But he cares more about the fruit in my life, and teaching me to be a person after his own heart, not here's how to do your job.

Jai Williams: I think it's so powerful how you just talked about, like,I've heard this all my life about gifts come without repentance. Like you can get a gift, like, whomever. 'Cuz you know, you see people that you know, are doing awful things in the world, and they're just so gifted to do certain, it's like, "How did they," but you have to remind yourself like, you know, "How did they get to do it like that"? Like, you know, "And I'm like this". And so, not comparing the gifts. But also, understanding that the gift is that. It's the actual word. It's a gift. It was given from God. But the fact the fruit is to cultivate that, that is really our responsibility. It's really our responsibility to,really do that and practice that, those bookends of love and self-control.

Joyce Meyer: A lot of times, if you notice though, people who have real strong gifts that put them in the public eye, if they don't have fruit, if they don't treat people good, many, many times they end up failing, and their lives fall apart.

Ginger Stache: Very publicly.

Joyce Meyer: And I know God, God spoke to me, when my ministry started getting bigger, and I was on tv, and we were having thousands of people come to the meetings. And he said, "I want you to always remember that however many people you can help, that's exactly how many you can hurt". And so, you know, the more people you're in front of, the more responsibility you have to make sure that you're living the life, not just telling other people how to live the life. I wrote a book recently called, "Loving people that are hard to love". A couple weeks ago, I had an occasion to get really mad at somebody, and I was mad for maybe, three hours, and then, I remembered my book.

Erin Cluley: You have a lot to help you with that.

Ginger Stache: "I wrote a book about that".

Joyce Meyer: Oh, yes, I have to forgive. And you know, if you talk about, this is what I think, I think that love really is how you treat people. It's giving, it's kindness, it's gentleness, it's humility, it's really all the rest of the spirit. So, I talk about 'em, like, bookends. All the Fruit of the Spirit come out of love, but they're held in place by self-control. You know, love would require me to be humble. But if I don't feel like being humble then I need self-control, to do what I feel,and I really would love to see people study the Fruit of the Spirit more, because I think it is extremely important to me. When Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruit". I mean, we're the only Jesus that people are gonna see.

Erin Cluley: I think, when, in your clip, you said this, and then saying that again, I think one thing that stands out to me is, this is where we, as Christians, are not doing our job, in the world, right now. Because people are so angry and upset, and things are so polarized. And there's, you are not seeing Christians act by their fruit. We are just as guilty of name-calling and treating people poorly. But if we were to do what Christ has called us to do, as the body of Christ, and act like the fruit, what would our world look like right now? That doesn't mean the heart issues are gonna go away. But wow, we could have some really good conversations and be,show people Jesus.

Joyce Meyer: Actually, if we would have been acting like we should have all along, we probably wouldn't have the situations...

Jai Williams: Yeah.

Erin Cluley: That's true. That's good.

Joyce Meyer: That we have in the world, right now. And that's always been my pet peeve, I guess. God has really called me to help people, not just know Christ and be born again, but to live the life that he wants them to live. And that requires spiritual maturity, and spiritual maturity requires self-control, and the Fruit of the Spirit is a big part of that. "You will know them by their fruit". You know, we are God's representatives. The Bible says that "He makes his appeal to the world through us". I think, it's 2 Corinthians 5:20. So, just think about that. He's making his appeal to the world through us. And so, I love it, when I don't even have to ask somebody if they're a Christian. If I can tell they are, by their behavior.

Ginger Stache: And that really does start with love...

Joyce Meyer: It does.

Ginger Stache: Like you said, it kind of is all of those other things rolled up into what love is. And I'm so grateful that the Bible describes all these things for us, and equips us in a way, if we choose to use it. Like the love chapter, 1 Corinthians 13 talks about the fact that "Love is patient. Love is kind". It takes all those other fruits of the spirit, and love is the foundation of all of it. So, let me ask you all this. When love is hard to find in your life, when love is hard to come by, how do you stir it up? What do you guys do?

Joyce Meyer: Well, I've studied it so much now, because I did things wrong for a lot of years, and I was an unhappy Christian, and Christians should not be unhappy. We should be the happiest people, the most content people on the face of the earth. And I was not content, and I was not happy. And it's interesting, if you really ask God a question, if you're, if you really want the answer, he'll give you one. And I asked the Lord one day, "Why am I so unhappy"? And he said, "You're selfish". And you know, love is not self-seeking. Love is all about trusting God, to take care of you, while you take care of other people. So, I studied love so much that I, it's been a priority for me for a long, long time. And that doesn't mean that I always hit it, one hundred percent, but I know, I think you have to know the importance of it. And if you really know the importance of anything, you're more likely to do it, whether you feel like it or not, than if you just, if it's just a, you know, "We love everything. We love ice cream. We love God. We love church. We love our shoes," you know. But there's a difference in the agape love. He's calling us to love, as he loves. And every one of those fruit, we see in God's character. He's kind, he's gentle, you know, he's forgiving, all those things that love is. So, he's not asking us to do anything that Jesus didn't come and do. And not only that, he helps us do it, if we cry out to him. You know, when I had that thing happen, a couple of weeks ago, it was like, because I know now, how important it is to forgive, I mean, I know it. I've taught on it so much, preached on it so much, studied it so much, wrote so many books on it, read books so many books on it. It's like, really, the Word of God will save you. It says in James that, "The Word of God will save your soul". And the Word of God will change you and it will save you, but it's not, you can't just hear it for 20 minutes on Sunday morning. You have to be a diligent student of the Word of God. I'm working on a little project, right now, called, "40 things the Word of God does for you," and it's amazing. But it can't, you have to know it by revelation, and you have to learn to meditate on the Word of God. And so,and I just pray that people would understand that. That if you would take 30 minutes, diligently, every day and study the word. And then, maybe, another 30 minutes throughout the day, meditating on the word. And meditate just means to roll over, and over, in your mind. And I tell people, "If you know how to worry, you know how to meditate". Only you meditate on the Word of God. Well, like, Philippians 4:6, is my go-to place when I get anxious or worried. Immediately, I'll start meditating on that scripture. And so, I think, if people are finding it hard to do, they need to either get their Bible out, look up the scriptures, if they don't know 'em, or if they've studied it enough, they will know them. And they'll, the Holy Spirit brings 'em to your mind, it's like they pop-up when you need 'em.

Ginger Stache: I did what you said, too, and I think it's so important is, when we're missing something in particular in our life, to study it in the Bible, to look for it, and to ask God for more of it. And I remember a time where, you know how the world is, and I just wasn't seeing a lot of love around me. And I was saying, "God," you know, "Where is all the love that you're filling the world with". And I remember very clearly, like you did, I remember just this feeling of, you start sharing more of it, and you'll find more of it around you. And it comes down so much to, what we do in our own life, when we're looking for it outside of ourselves, God wants to start in us.

Jai Williams: Yeah, I've noticed whenever I'm feeling like I'm not receiving it, or if I'm feeling like I'm not really giving it out, I immediately, go to the fact that, somehow, I'm disconnected from him. Like, there's a disconnection. Because I usually stop and like, reflect on the fact that God is love. Like, it's that simple, like, God is love. And if I'm feeling any lack in myself, or if I'm feeling like, "Nobody loves me," or, you know, like, or "I'm not, I don't like anybody". Like, honestly, you know, like, then, I'm like, "I'm,i,I'm not connected to God. I'm not connected to him like I need to". So, I will like, pull back, si, you know, meditate on the scripture, meditate on his love, and ask him simply, just to fill me up.

Ginger Stache: Don't you think joy is the same way...

Jai Williams: Yeah.

Ginger Stache: As one of the Fruit of the Spirit. When we don't have joy, it's exactly what you said also, we need to reconnect with him.

Jai Williams: It's a disconnection because, like, all of the fruit are,they're him. It's him. And if I'm lacking in any of 'em, it means that I am lacking him. And, that's the harsh reality. Is like, no matter how much, I tote around, "I'm a Christian," which, honestly, these days, what I'm finding out, with a lot of people that I've been interacting with, after going through this past season of my life, because I've been very different with how I've approached people. Like, I'm way less judgmental, I'm way less... I'm way less Jesus-pushing, you know, I'm way less that. And I really want the fruit to show. Like,and so, a lot of that means, I've shut up a lot. Like, I don't say mucha nuthin'. But I let people talk to me. And what I'm noticing is that people are gravitating more to me. Like, I don't have to tell them, I'm a Christian because, honestly, the word Christian, these days, a lot of people don't like it. Like, it's a deflector to people. And so, the fact that I'm learning how to cultivate the joy, and cultivate the love, man, in this season, where I felt the least amount of love, I'm like, "God, let your love just show through me. That,so many people are drawing towards me that need love, I'm like, "What about me"? Oh again, I hear you. You know, I'm like, "What about me feeling it"? But like, God's like, teaching me how to love people. And I'm getting so much more fulfillment from that cultivation and being able to give it out to people.

Erin Cluley: I think, I had a similar experience to you, last year, about the same, the same topic of love. I was praying, and the world was on fire, and like, "God, what are you doing here? What,show me something. I need to know what, you're still here, right"? And so, he brought the word, love, up to me. And so, I just went through the gospels and just read all about, what does, what is Jesus saying about love? And how is he acting that out? And he does it just like you're saying Jai. He's going and sitting with the least of these. And he's not judging, and he's not criticizing, and he's so humble, and gracious. And not, he doesn't have all these words to say. 'Cause I kept saying,thinking, like, "I need to have paragraphs, of paragraphs, of encouragement to tell people". And he just was with them, where they were.

Ginger Stache: But he's also, so honest.

Erin Cluley: Yeah.

Ginger Stache: You know, when somebody's not doing what they need to do, he will let them know, and in few words, really well chosen, very straightforward, but still in love.

Erin Cluley: Yeah, I love the way he communicates. Because it's not like, "Whatever you say goes". "This is truth. So, I will stand up for what's right," but...

Ginger Stache: It's not, "I don't want to make anybody upset".

Erin Cluley: No.

Ginger Stache: "But I'll still love you through this".

Erin Cluley: Yeah. and I, so, that's kinda what I learned in the past year. But I love the verse that you shared, 1 Corinthians. Love feels really big to me, like, that's a really big concept to grasp. So, I like that one 'cuz it says, "Here's what that means. Here's your definition of love," as like a checklist. So, "Are you being this"? "No". "Are you being that"? "No". I got one on the list, so let's try for another one today. But that's kind of a practical thing, I like to do.

Joyce Meyer: I think, if a person did nothing but focus on love for the rest of their life...

Erin Cluley: We'd be busy.

Joyce Meyer: Well, to be honest, I don't think you would have any other sin problems.

Erin Cluley: I totally agree.

Joyce Meyer: Because if you walked in... God doesn't sin, and he is love. And so, I think that every sin, somewhere, is because you're not paying attention to love.

Ginger Stache: Well, we mentioned joy a little bit. I love joy. Joy's just one of those really important things. And sometimes, when we're so far down, joy just seems unattainable. But we have to remember that God doesn't talk about joy the same way he talks about happiness or anything temporary. It does come from the seed that he gives us, and then, we develop it from there. So, from there, going to kindness. Kindness is a hard one in the world today too, don't you think?

Joyce Meyer: People are pretty crude and rude today. Somebody told me recently, he said, "You need to do a seminar just on manners". I mean, it's like, people out in the world today, just, they are so,they just don't have manners. I mean, some of the stories that people tell me, who work with the public, I mean, a couple of my granddaughters work at a fast-food restaurant. And I said, "You would not believe the way people can act, if you just don't give 'em enough ketchup packets". It's like, every,people are just ready to explode. And just,it's not that hard to be a little bit kind to people.

Jai Williams: I think kindness is a lost art somewhat because, even though it's a fruit. But I'm saying, it's just, it's kinda lost in this culture because we,we're used to getting things quickly. Like, this is like, a very fast-paced world. And so, that's where, I think, a lot of patience lacks and a lot of kindness. Everybody's just on the go. And so, one thing that I try to keep instilling in my daughter, just, be kind. Like, say, "Thank you". Say, "Please". Those are like, lost things that I don't think, and I grew up in a time, my parents,if I didn't say, "Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. Yes, sir. No, sir," to any adult, you know like, I would get in trouble. And so, I raised my daughter the same. And she still says it. Now, people get offended, 'cuz they don't wanna, "You think I'm old"? Like, "No, I'm just saying, I'm just trying to respect," you know, like. But I think that, just that art of kindness, like, I still do it. I don't care. I'm like, "Thank you. Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. Yes, sir". It's just kindness. It's just being gentle and kind.

Joyce Meyer: I think joy comes from being thankful too.

Ginger Stache: Yes.

Joyce Meyer: I really believe that if you,if you're having a cranky day and you're unhappy, you're probably unhappy because you're thinking about what you don't have, and what people are not doing for you. But if you turn it around and, I mean, I try to do this every morning. I thank God for several different things that, you know, are pretty ordinary things. This morning, I got to turn my fireplace on because it was a little bit cool outside. And I love my fireplace, so I thanked God that I had a fireplace. You know, and if you keep your mind on what you do have, you can be happy. But I heard something the other day that, I read this, but I thought it was really, really good. You know, maternity, growing up in God, which you have to do in order to display these fruit, it takes going through some hard stuff. I mean, to be honest, that's just where we grow. And this man said he was talking to his father, who was elderly, and he said, "Son, I've learned that you can never be really happy until you've had plenty of reasons to be sad".

Ginger Stache: Wow, yeah.

Joyce Meyer: I mean, hey, if you think about that, that's really deep. Because when you, when you've been hurt, I think, that's when you stop hurting people. Like you said, you've been so much nicer to people, but it's because you went through a year of real pain. And when we haven't had that, we're not sensitive to what other people are going through.

Erin Cluley: One thing I love about joy, I think it connects really well to peace, because we can be going through something terrible, and traumatic, and whatever it is, but you can still have joy because we have the peace to know that God's taking care of it. That doesn't mean my circumstance is great. But to me, I can feel that joy. And sometimes, I wonder like, "Erin, why are you so, why are you smiling right now? You should be crying". But I know that God's taking care of it. So, it's like an unspeakable joy, because I have that peace. You know, I think they work together.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, and there's something beautiful about the fact that the Bible tells us that "The joy of the Lord is our strength". And we don't often connect joy with being strong. But the joy of the Lord is something that gives us strength. That's incredible.

Erin Cluley: 'Cuz, it does feel like a weapon, like you're fighting back.

Ginger Stache: Exactly.

Jai Williams: And if joy,no, and if joy is the opposite of sadness, then that makes a lot of sense to me, 'cuz I've been sad.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah.

Jai Williams: Like, you know, like, when I'm sa... Like, I'm wimpy.

Ginger Stache: You don't feel strong, right?

Jai Williams: No, like, when you're sad it's easy to not feel strong. But so, if the opposite of sadness is joy, then it makes so much sense to me. Like, just getting up, like, I remember growing up, we would sing, like, the, like, if you need joy, you can leap for it. Like, we used to sing that all the time. You know, and so, like, so honestly, I still use that to this day. If I'm really feeling low, I'll just get up and like, start jumping around like, acting silly. Or like, or think of something...

Ginger Stache: Dance it out.

Jai Williams: Or just make my heart leap. Like something that, and that's where gratitude comes in, you know, like, just think of something that'll give you joy. And you do feel strength from that. That doesn't take away the issue, but it definitely, makes you not feel so wimpy.

Erin Cluley: It kind of refocuses you too on Jesus.

Joyce Meyer: Well, really, when the devil comes against us and gives us trials, and tribulations, and problems, he's really not after whatever it is, he's trying to take away from you, he's after your joy, and he knows that's the way to get it. Joy is extremely important. And this may sound like something that people think, "No, that wouldn't work". But you can actually, make your mind up in the morning, "I'm going to be joyful today. I'm going to have a good day. I'm going to be happy with what God's given me. I'm going to be content". 'Cause in Colossians 3, it says, "Set your mind, and keep it set on things that are above". So, the thoughts that you have, early in the morning, sometimes, sets you up for the whole rest of the day. That's why the enemy makes a bid for your thoughts, sometimes, before your feet ever, hit the floor. And so, I've kinda learned, over 45 years,it's a long time. I mean, I was so stupid in the beginning. And,but I've learned over 45 years, that the Word of God, actually will work, if you work it. If you do what it says. "So set your mind and keep it set on things that are above". And that doesn't mean sit around and think about heaven all day. But it means to think of the things that God would want you to do, but you have to do that. So, you can take a little time, before you ever get out of bed in the morning, and think, "Okay. Lord, I love you. Thank you for another day. I'm going to be joyful today. I'm gonna walk in love today. I need your help. I can't do it without you". But it,how many people wake up, and the first thing they think about is who they're mad at, and what somebody did to 'em yesterday that, you know, they're irritated about.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, I like this verse talking about kindness, "Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, and forgiving. Because when, there are a lot of different ways, you can be kind, right? You can be kind in endless ways. But tender-hearted is something that really speaks to me about kindness. It's let,keeping our heart soft, even when the world is hard, even when the pain around us, makes us feel self-protective.

Joyce Meyer: right.

Ginger Stache: And so, kindness, can only come when we keep our heart tender, and that comes from forgiveness. So, it kind of ties together with what you're saying about that, "First thought in the morning, can't be who I'm mad at," or you're not waking up with a tender heart and kindness is not gonna flow out of that.

Joyce Meyer: Well, and like, Jai talked about, how much kinder she is now, and it's because you had a good dose of...

Jai Williams: I gotta beat down.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah. Sometimes, you got to get that hardness beat out of you. And you know, God never is trying to be mean to us, but,I'm gonna do a speaking engagement, later this week, and I'm gonna teach on the raising of Lazarus from the dead. But I'm,the main thing I'm after is, I love the part where it says that Jesus knew that Lazarus was sick. So, because he loved him, he waited two more days until he went. Now, see, it's like, we gotta pay attention to that. Because he loved him, he didn't go help him. And so, that...Uh-huh.

Erin Cluley: Why? Why did he do that?

Jai Williams: I don't like it!

Joyce Meyer: Because there was something deeper, he was after. There was a greater lesson that he wanted to teach Mary and Martha. Now, you know, I tend to be a rescuer. So, I would have wanted to, ran real fast and rescued poor Lazarus. But how many people rescue their kids and they think they're helping them. And really, what they're doing, is just enabling them to keep the bad behavior that they have.

Erin Cluley: That just shows the self-control that Jesus had too 'cuz, of how much he loves us. Yes, as a parent, you want to run to your kid, but he knew what was better for them to hold back.

Jai Williams: I'm sure he wanted to.

Joyce Meyer: Mary and Martha, both were, "Lord, why,if you would have been here... Why weren't you here? Why did you let me go through this"? And you know, the Bible says you're to thank God in things, but it also says you're to thank God for everything. Now, I let me tell you, that's a whole 'nother level. Ladies:. That's hard.

Jai Williams: Everything though? Whoo!

Joyce Meyer: Think about that. Yeah, thank God for everything. And I've been trying that.

Erin Cluley: How's it going.

Joyce Meyer: Oh, well, it's going.

Erin Cluley: I'm not to your level yet, so.

Joyce Meyer: It's like, I'm really, I want to, I don't want to just study the word. I really wanna take it seriously, and try it all out. You know, so, if I'm supposed to thank God for things, it doesn't make any sense to me. But I, "Okay, God, I thank you for that blow up we had in the family. And I believe, the reason why we can thank God for things is because we do believe that God can work something good out of them, and he can work something good in us. You just cannot become what God wants you to be, if everything in your life is cushy.

Ginger Stache: And that's how we learn these other two, right? Faithfulness, faith,we learn the faithfulness of God...

Joyce Meyer: Sticking with stuff.

Ginger Stache: By seeing it happen. Goodness, but I think we need to skip over goodness and faithfulness, if that's okay with you guys, only because there's so much to talk about with self-control.

Erin Cluley: No, I prefer the other two, thank you.

Ginger Stache: Ok, anything you guys wanna say about goodness and faithfulness, before we move on to self-control?

Erin Cluley: No, they're great.

Joyce Meyer: We probably need the rest of the time for self-control.

Ginger Stache: I think you're right.

Jai Williams: I will say this though. With faithfulness, like being consistent, that's something that I'm like, a part of my self-love journey. Just being consistent, like, being faithful. Like, God said, if,you know, "If your faithful over few, he'll make you ruler over much". So, like, just learning how to be more faithful and consistent with things, it's helping me.

Ginger Stache: It's hugely important, hugely important.

Jai Williams: Yeah. So, it takes self-control to do that. Da-da...

Ginger Stache: Yeah, nice transition. Thank you.

Joyce Meyer: So we should know we're headed in the wrong direction when we hear ourselves say, "I know I should do this, but..."

Erin Cluley: Yeah.

Ginger Stache: "But..."

Joyce Meyer: "I know I shouldn't do this, but..." "I know I shouldn't talk about this, but..." what we're really saying is, "I know what's right to do, but I'm not gonna use any self-control to do it".

Erin Cluley: Oh, ouch.

Ginger Stache: Oh, I had one of these last week. And it was something that someone did. And it wasn't a terrible deal. It was annoying. But I knew, in my heart, that God did not want me to talk about it. He did not want me to tell anybody about it. And that was one of the hardest self-control things, I can remember happening in a long time. Because I just wanted to talk about it. I just, I wanted to tell my husband. I wanted to tell my daughters. "Do you know this person did"? And it was a huge factor of self-control. Nobody knew. It was really just between me and God.

Joyce Meyer: I totally agree with you. That's one of the hardest things in the world to do is to not tell anybody what somebody did to you. I've had that test, many times.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, so anyway. That was one of those self-control, hard things that I had to deal with.

Erin Cluley: I sat in the car, in my garage, like, more times than I can probably count, like fuming, angry at whatever the situation was. So badly, wanting to pick up the phone and call a friend, to just tell about whatever just happened, the person did to me, or whatever. And so strongly, I can feel the Holy Spirit saying, "Do not pick up that phone". I can hear your teaching in my mind. Do not pick up that phone. What do you say? "Go to the throne, not the phone".

Joyce Meyer: Yeah.

Erin Cluley: "Okay"! So, I'll just sit in my car until I am ready to get out without making it that choice. Because I know, once I do that, I'm not gonna go back to him. I'm not gonna, him being the Lord, and talk to him about it. I wanna move on with my friend, and we're gonna vent, and feel better that way. So, it's so hard.

Joyce Meyer: I used to work for somebody that was really not very nice. And so, there was a lot office, you know. And God really dealt with me about not being part of that. You know, not, "Don't talk about 'em". But I would go home and talk to Dave. And one day, the Lord said, "It's not a matter of who you're talking to, it's the words that do the damage". And so, see, when we're putting those words out there, those are words then, that the enemy can turn around and use against us. That's why it's so important to cover people. "Love covers a multitude of sins".

Ginger Stache: And this was not something that, that person would have ever known that I said, because that wasn't the point. It wasn't about hurting that person, like you're saying.

Joyce Meyer: But God was having you cover them.

Ginger Stache: Yes!

Joyce Meyer: And you know, you got the whole thing with Noah and his sons. When his,when his one son, when he got drunk and lay in his tent naked. And his one son went in and saw him, and ran back out, and told the other two brothers. And the other two brothers walked in backwards, with a cover, and covered his nakedness. And the son who uncovered him, got a curse, and the other two got a blessing, so.

Jai Williams: It's funny how self-control, like, in this season, for me,like, I'll be 40 in a little bit. So, I'm doing like, this 40-day fast of sorts, you know, just to get towards it. And one of the things in the forty-day fast is like, me working on, not trying to fix stuff. Like, 'cuz I love,like, I've talked about this before, but I love a good resolve, you know? Like even, in music, you know? "dah-dah-dah-da... da".

Ginger Stache: Don't leave us hanging.

Jai Williams: You know, like, end it, you know. And so, even if there's a, you know, something tense going on with me and someone, like, I wanna be like, "Okay, are you good"? "Okay, like," you know, I always wanna do that. And so, even, with my daughter, like, she's eighteen. And honey, she's doing her,she's grown, I guess, you know, so. And I just wanna like, you know, touched and ask questions. And what God is teaching me, right now, it's like, "Aht, aht, aht, don't". Like,and so it's, a lot of this time as me being hands-off. Hands off of others, and hands-on with me. And like, that's something, I'm not used to that. I've lived the opposite way. You know, like, all my life, I've lived hands on everybody else, and don't touch me. Like, you know, so, like, that's the self-control of not having that resolve and trusting that God's gonna fix it and he's gonna,he's gonna resolve it in his time, whenever that is, two days later, maybe.

Ginger Stache: And when you've lived that way for forty years, it's a lot of self-control to start to change some of those little things that God's asking us to work on.

Jai Williams: Yeah, 'cuz a lot of the fixing things that I thought I did, I thought God told me to fix.

Ginger Stache: And he probably did, some of them.

Jai Williams: Mmm...Some of 'em...

Ginger Stache: Maybe not all of 'em.

Jai Williams: Some of 'em. But I mean, the mentality of thinking that, okay, all this stuff that I was fixing, you know, and resolving, like, I thought that was God. But now, God's telling me, "Keep your hands off," in this particular time frame, "And just really focus on you. Work on cultivating your fruit. Work on cultivating things that I've told you, to do for you," so.

Joyce Meyer: We have to remember that we all still have a flesh.

Ginger Stache: Oh yeah.

Erin Cluley: We sure do.

Joyce Meyer: And it's never going to want to do the right thing. Now, if you do the right thing enough,long enough, then it will finally shut up. Like, my husband has worked out for 60 some-odd years. And so, course, he looks amazing. People, "Oh, I wish I looked like Dave". Well, he didn't get it, wishing. You know, he got it through self-control. I never hear him say, "I don't feel like working out. I don't want to work out today". Even if he felt that way, he wouldn't say anything. He would just go and do it. But it's because he's done it so long. And so, some of these things like that, are hard areas, that are hard to have self-control in. We have to realize that our flesh is gonna fight against us until it's completely dead. And the only way you kill it, in an area, which the Bible does say, "Kill the flesh," in Colossians, in the Amplified Bible. The only way you can do that, is you can kill anything if you don't feed it. But every time you give in to it, you feed it. And the only way you ever can get free from it, is to not feed it anymore, and then, it finally loses its strength.

Erin Cluley: It brushes up against your pride though. That,just to not say something, when you know... Or too, what you're doing with your daughter, and holding back when you know the answers, is so,it feels so much like a blow to the pride when you know the answer, and "I can help you and I can make this all right". And to not, it's hard.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, but it is that starvation theory that you're talking about. I think that's a great way to describe it. The more I can go without sugar, the less I want the sugar.

Joyce Meyer: That's exactly, right.

Ginger Stache: And it's the same way, in the other areas of our life. And when we talk about the Fruit of the Spirit, I think, we see how all of these things, in our life, come together and how they feed each other with the good things, the fruit, and starve the bad things in our life. Like, if you look at 2 Timothy 1:7, it says, "For God did not give us a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of self-control".

Joyce Meyer: Right, and isn't it interesting that self-control's in there?

Ginger Stache: Exactly. Self-control is one of those things that defeats fear. That's mind-blowing to me, pkew.

Jai Williams: I think it's interesting because I've learned that scripture so many times, and it was, of a,in a sound mind, and it's just...

Joyce Meyer: But a sound mind is self-control. The Amplified Bible brings that out.

Jai Williams: Exactly, but that's what I'm saying. Like that... Like...

Joyce Meyer: If you're thinking properly.

Jai Williams: It's about... It's up here.

Erin Cluley: So, you get your self-control in your mind.

Joyce Meyer: Well, you're thinking properly. You're thinking, "I don't feel like doing this, but I know what I should do. And so, I'm gonna do, with God's help, what I should do, not what I feel like doing," and your flesh is gonna have a fit. It's just like a little baby when you take its pacifier. It'll scream, and yell, and you know, "Give me my sugar..." "Give me..." whatever it is. But every time you don't feed it, and that was always really helpful to me. Every time you don't feed it, it gets a little bit weaker.

Ginger Stache: So, I have to share this story since you brought up pacifiers. Because we were just with our grandson this week. And his mom is starting to wean him from the Binky, the pacifier. And so, the new rule is, "The Binky stays in the bed". So, he can have it at nap-time and it bedtime, but the Binky has to stay in the bed. Well, I got him up from his nap, one time. I pulled the pacifier out of his mouth and I put it down, and I turned around, and it was in his mouth again! And I was like, "What happened? How did he do that"? He's like a little magician. And so, the next day, I really watched to see what he did. And when I got him up, he had a pacifier in his mouth, and two in his hand.

Ginger Stache: And as soon as I pulled one out, he just popped another one in. And he did that three times. Just popped another one in. And he had a whole pile of them in his bed that he was hoarding. And that's how we are.

Joyce Meyer: Well, we're kinda like that. We've got our back-ups.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, that's how we are especially with self-control. We can find all sorts of ways to manipulate it to get what we want. It's hard to let go of some things in our world.

Joyce Meyer: You know, the bottom line is, I was just sitting here thinking, a Christian, every person who's listening or watching, who is a Christian, our whole goal should be to please God every day. It's not about us, but to please God every day. Knowing that if we do that, then he can use us to bring other people into the kingdom. If we didn't have a purpose here, when we're born again, he would just bring us up to heaven and we could bypass all this. But God works through people, but not fleshly people. You can't, back in the Old Testament, there was never any anointing oil put on the flesh. You can't anoint the flesh. You can only anoint the spirit.

Ginger Stache: So, Joyce, give us a word of encouragement, as we close, to continue to develop the fruit of spirit in our life.

Joyce Meyer: Okay. Well, I think, I would focus on love and self-control. Let's just take those two. Out of nine, let's just take those two, and realize that every time God wants you to do the right thing, the devil's gonna try to get you to do the wrong thing. But keep in mind that principle, that every time, you say, "Yes," to God and, "No," to the enemy, or, "Yes," to the spirit and, "No," to the flesh,in the beginning, it's really hard. It's like, say, if you decide to stop,you're not gonna talk bad about people anymore. Like, you had your one situation. So, let's just say, you decide, "I'm gonna live like that". Okay, well, in the beginning, it is gonna be so gut-wrenchingly, hard and you'll fail a number of times. That's why you gotta stick with stuff, you know, stick with stuff. And then, just keep at it, and keep at it, and keep at it until that thing no longer has control over you. And then, I can promise you, God will give you a new assignment. So really, we're never going to be perfected to where God doesn't need to deal with us. And don't get your panties in a bunch, when God deals with you. Just be thankful that he cares enough about you to not leave you the way that you are.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. Well, we'll all be better off for it. And it won't always be real comfortable along the way, especially, when our panties do get in a bunch. 'Cuz that is not comfortable.

Jai Williams: It's embarrassing to pull it out.

Ginger Stache: But it's an excellent point. The more that we starve those needs, those,the fleshly desire, the more the Fruit of the Spirit can grow in our lives. Thank you all very much.

Jai Williams: Thank you.

Erin Cluley: Thank you, Joyce.

Joyce Meyer: You're welcome.