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Joyce Meyer - Keys to Marriage

Joyce Meyer - Keys to Marriage
TOPICS: Talk It Out, Marriage, Relationship
Joyce Meyer - Keys to Marriage

Ginger Stache: Hi, everyone! Welcome to Joyce Meyer's Talk it Out podcast. This is where Joyce teaches the Word of God in her practical, no-nonsense way and my friends, and I talk about the real stuff of living it, and hold nothing back. I'm Ginger Stache, with Erin Cluley, and Jai, three friends, who understand the importance of having honest, loving women around you. And when we need a little extra help, we ask ms. Joyce, who's here with us today!

Joyce Meyer: I'm here to help.

Ginger Stache: And you are all with us today, as friends, who are here to talk it out. And we have something we have never had on the show before, we have a male! Welcome, Dave Meyer!

Dave Meyer: I am on the spot.

Erin Cluley: Yes, you are.

Ginger Stache: It's so fun to have you with us. We're really looking forward to this. I think it's going to help a lot of people, give some great advice. We're talking about marriage. So, mawrrridge... This is what's stuck in my mind, I don't know why. But there are so many aspects of different places. We talk about how we're in different stages of life, and everyone listening is in a different place in their own relationships. So, we're gonna dig right into your relationship, as well as ours, and everybody else's. So, why don't we start by you guys telling us how long you've been married and just give us a little background.

Joyce Meyer: Well, we've been married 54 looong... Wonderful years. And I would say most of them, have been pretty great. The early years were a little tough because I had been sexually abused by my dad, and had all kinds of problems, but didn't know I did. I thought everybody else had the problems, and if they would just do what I wanted them to, we'd all be fine. And so, I was pretty rough on Dave those first few years, but he's so easygoing that he managed it better than most people would. And so, what was it like for you, in those early years?

Dave Meyer: Well, I have a survival mentality. And so, I mean, the early years were tough because you know, not only had you been abused by your father, but you'd been abandoned by your mother, and rejected by your first husband. So, you came in loaded for bear, because you had all this stuff penned up inside of you, and I was the one who was gonna get it released on me, you know.

Joyce Meyer: And I truly, didn't know I had a problem. I mean, I really, I just thought if everybody would just do",why doesn't everybody do what I want 'em to"?

Dave Meyer: I didn't know you had a problem either.

Joyce Meyer: I know. I remember, Dave and I'd been married just about three weeks, he looked at me, one day, and he said, "What is wrong with you"? And I wasn't real sure that anything was wrong with me. But even then, we look back, we talk about it, and we sound like it was all terrible, but we had fun, even then.

Ginger Stache: Well, you guys definitely have a lot of fun today. I think that's a great place to start. Because you guys, you have to know this. Joyce was already here, with us, and then, Dave walked in, and Joyce, tell them what you said.

Joyce Meyer: Well, the first thing I said was, "Why didn't you wear the shirt that we agreed that you were gonna wear"? He had me go in his closet, and approve the shirt that he had out, and then, he shows up in something else. And he asked me, "Can I wear a polo shirt"? And I said, "No, wear a dress shirt". And here, he is, in a polo shirt that says, "Boss," on it, of all things.

Dave Meyer: And... I said, "It's the shirt you approved, not the shirt I approved". And I said, "This is what the shirt says".

Joyce Meyer: Why did you ask me to approve it?

Ginger Stache: Well, you know, this is real life. This is real life: this is how it goes.

Joyce Meyer: Something that I just kinda feel like I wanna start with is, I know that there's all kinds of people that, you're on the verge of divorce, or you're contemplating divorce, or you just feel like you don't know if you can make it with this person that you're married to, but I just really wanna encourage people to try to make the one you've got work, because there aren't any perfect relationships. And if you throw one away, think you're gonna go get another one that's gonna be different, it may have, not the same problems as your first one, but there's going to be problems. We always say, "The grass is not always greener on the other side". And I just felt like I really wanted to encourage you to, you know, realize that we haven't been married 54 years, because it's all been easy. We made a commitment to God, and he's been in the midst of our relationship. And I'm sure that there are many times that Dave stuck it out because of his love for God. And, you know, many times when I didn't give up, because of my love for God, and that's important. That you really make a decision, if you're a Christian, that you're gonna do what you believe, God would have you do, not just what you feel like doing.

Ginger Stache: I think that's so great because there's something in working, there's something in God doing something in a relationship, between two people. And so, we want to talk more about that, to give people the tips and the fuel that they need. At the same time, Joyce, you've been through a divorce.

Joyce Meyer: Right.

Ginger Stache: So, you also know the other side of that. And Jai's sitting here, going through a very difficult time in her life, where things are not always the way that you want it to be, I guess, is the right thing to say.

Joyce Meyer: Well, I married the first guy that paid any attention to me because I thought nobody would ever really want me because of what my dad had done to me. And so, I got married when I was 18, and I married a guy that was 19. And I don't know which one of us had more problems. You know, and a lot of times, I say, "Desperate people, do desperate, dumb things". And many times, you just grab at anything for fear of having nothing. And it's really,it's really not even fair to say that we had a five-year marriage, because we were separated those five years more than we were together. And on two different occasions, he abandoned me in other states. And I mean, just left one day to go to work and never came back. And so, on top of the rejection, I'd already experienced, more rejection wasn't really what I needed. But I got it, and so, we were married five years. He ran around with other women. He was a petty crook. He wrote bad checks all the time, and ended up, shortly after our divorce, he ended up going to prison.

Dave Meyer: You know, when we got married, because of the hurt that Joyce experienced, she came in with a controlling spirit. In other words, she wanted to control the situations because she knew if she controlled, or felt if she controlled the situations that she wouldn't get hurt again. And that,i think that happens in a lot of marriages. I think, what happens is, is a lot of,a lot of, whether it's a man or woman comes into a situation where they've been,into a marriage where they've been hurt in some way, abused in some way, then they come in with that controlling spirit. And a lot of times, what you have on the other side, is a person that allows themselves to be controlled. And when you have a controlling spirit and a person that allows them self to be controlled, you have a situation that has to end up in a disaster. You know, there's no way to, no way around it. Unless that person realizes or learns that they can do something about it. They don't have to stay in that situation. But they have to be, they have to have knowledge in that area. That's why the Word of God is so important. Because the Word of God reveals your position in a marriage. And you can't succumb to a person controlling you, because if you do, you're actually hurting yourself and that person.

Joyce Meyer: Timing is very important in a situation like that. And Dave was very long-suffering and patient with me for a long time. And then, he finally, did start confronting me. And oh, man, it was like a nightmare when he did 'cuz I just blew up. But probably, if he would have done it any sooner than he did, I would have probably just left. I just want to encourage people that it's, you know, if you're in a situation where you're being controlled or you let somebody control you, and you feel like you need to confront 'em, you need to make sure that you pray, and make sure you have the time right, and not just do it on your own timetable.

Erin Cluley: You know, how'd you know it was the right time to say something?

Dave Meyer: Actually, the Holy Spirit. and I,you know, I would pray, in situations, I'd go off and pray. But when I pray, I wouldn't just pray that I saw something that I thought was wrong in Joyce or she was doing it and she shouldn't have been doing. I would pray also that God would show me, if that's,if I'm not seeing this thing right and reveal to me, the truth. You know, if I'm,so that I can change. And I think you have to be open-minded, when you pray. You have to have that open mind because if you pray,if you go in with a judgmental attitude, praying, you know, that's a situation where God can't really do anything, because you're really hindering him from doing it. You're judging whole situation, instead of letting God judge it. And so, you know, that's, and also, when I confronted her, when the Holy Spirit told me, "Now, it's time. Now, she's ready. Confront her". And when I did, if I'd have confronted her before that, it would have been,i would have felt bad. But when I did, I felt total peace. I've felt peace about confronting her.

Joyce Meyer: I didn't, but he did.

Dave Meyer: She was like a bull in a China closet.

Joyce Meyer: Oh, I was so mad.

Dave Meyer: Oh, yeah, she was very mad. But it's like, I felt this peace and it was like, "Let her be mad. Let her be mad. She'll get through it. And when she does, she'll get set free".

Ginger Stache: But that wasn't, that didn't come automatically for you. I know, you've said that you were at a point where you were just in tears and didn't know what to do.

Dave Meyer: Oh, yeah. That came over a period of time because I was trying to, you know, deal with the situation, and learning what to do, and how to apply the Word of God. And as I did,as I applied the Word of God, learned what to do, and applied the Word of God, that then, you know, God began to give me, you know, understanding and clarity in the whole situation.

Ginger Stache: Yeah.

Dave Meyer: And getting that, and then, the Holy Spirit said, "Now, it's time". And at that time, it was...

Jai Williams: I wanted to jump in and say thank you both for being so honest, and transparent about your relationship. And I really encourage all the women that are watching this, possibly have your husband's watch this episode, because had more people done this, I don't,i think there could have been potential for what happened in my marriage, not to have happened. If more, leaders in the faith, would be honest about the trials of marriage. But also, understanding like, the leading of the Holy Spirit. We say it all the time, but when it actually comes time to practice it, it's a little challenging. So, a lot of times,i believe, with my ex-husband, like, I came in with a lot of baggage, as well, from my marriage. Which was one of the reasons why, at the end, after I found out about the affair, after I found out about everything, I was really just at a place where I was like, I'm willing to try to make it work. I wanted to try to make my relationship work, but he was so checked out by this time, and didn't have a lot of males in his life speaking that truth of leading, and asking God for wisdom on how to help someone that had been so damaged. So, I do want to thank you guys for sharing the honesty of the trials of marriage. And also, just encouraging those that are watching, like, maybe, ask your spouse to watch this, because this is very, very helpful. It's a little late for me, but it's helpful.

Dave Meyer: I think, most of the time, it's a lack of knowledge of what to do in given situations, you know. But then, when you get the knowledge, then you have to apply that knowledge. And so, there's two things. There's two things that have to happen. First, gaining knowledge, then applying the knowledge. And if you don't apply the knowledge you gained, and don't apply the knowledge, then, you know, the situation can't change.

Joyce Meyer: Usually, people just get angry, and they don't really deal with it on any kind of a spiritual level. And one of the things that Dave did,and I think this is something very important for our viewing audience to hear today, was Dave decided that he couldn't do anything to make me happy. But he decided he was going to be happy and enjoy his life anyway. And I think, so many people, you let your joy be dependent on what the other person is doing. And actually, initially, it angered me that I was so unhappy, and he was so happy. He didn't seem to care.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. This isn't right.

Joyce Meyer: Over a long period of time, it became a really great witness to me that he was so stable, and it made me hungry for the joy that he had. And kinda showed me that, you know, you can have joy, even if the other person's not doing everything you want 'em to. And I just think that's really important. If you're in a marriage that is challenging or difficult, don't let the other person make you unhappy all the time. Do what you can to make them happy, but if they're not gonna be happy, I remember, Dave said to me, he said, "I've tried everything I know, and you're obviously, not gonna be happy, so I'm not gonna try anymore. You can be unhappy if you want to, but I'm gonna enjoy my life and be happy".

Dave Meyer: I told her that, "I'll love you and show love to you, but it's your choice to receive that love".

Ginger Stache: It had to be hard sometimes, to keep loving when...

Dave Meyer: Oh, it was hard. There were times when she would stay mad at me and wouldn't say a word to me for weeks. One time, three weeks: wouldn't say a word.

Ginger Stache: You little spitfire.

Dave Meyer: Oh, she was a spitfire.

Erin Cluley: Determined.

Dave Meyer: She's a spitfire, but, of course, that's why I married her. That spitfire, I like that, you know, spitfire in her...

Joyce Meyer: He likes a challenge, and he got one.

Dave Meyer: You know, at that time, was when I really learned, the Holy Spirit showed me, you know, "You can enjoy your life. Just go on and enjoy your life". And like, she was saying, it made her real mad, real mad but...

Joyce Meyer: Boy, was I mad.

Dave Meyer: It didn't bother me at all. You know, usually, something like that would affect a person and cause them to change what they're doing, but I had such a peace about it, that I was doing the right thing.

Joyce Meyer: And it bothered me, that it didn't bother him.

Ginger Stache: So, did you think, through this, you know, "I need to get out of here"? "This isn't working for me". Or did you want what he had, and that kept you there?

Joyce Meyer: No, I never really thought about leaving Dave. I don't know why, because things were such a mess. But, I guess, you know, deep down inside, I knew he was right. But I hadn't come far enough in my walk with God, to where I really was ready to do something about it, until one day, and I still remember exactly where we were at, in the house. He was getting something out of his closet, and I was being a smart Aleck, like I usually was, and giving him trouble. And he said,he just looked at me, and he said, "You know what"? He said, "If I depended on you to make me feel like a man, I would be in big trouble". And he said, "I just wanna tell you that I'm not real sure how long I can put up with this, but I don't think I can put up with it forever". And that actually, really put the fear of God in me, because I knew from my experience with Dave that he wasn't the type to just make idle threats. I knew that if he said something that he meant it. And so, I really started trying to behave better. And I remember, after about a year, I said to him, "Well, you know, am i, I'm doing better, aren't i? I'm doing a lot better". And he said, "Yeah, some". And I thought, "Wow". But you know, the other thing that I wanted to make sure that we tell people today is that one of the biggest mistakes that people make in marriages is they start trying to change each other.

Dave Meyer: Exactly.

Joyce Meyer: You don't like what the other person is doing, so you try to change them, you try to make them be different, and, why don't you speak to that?

Dave Meyer: The best marriage is, is when a husband allows the wife to be herself and when a wife allows the husband to be themselves. That's the way we are, now. I mean, we allow each other to be ourselves, you know.

Joyce Meyer: And we're both imperfect.

Dave Meyer: Yeah, and that doesn't mean we don't do things wrong or even, well, we actually, haven't had words for a long, long time.

Erin Cluley: Just about the shirt.

Dave Meyer: A lot of people call 'em arguments. I call them heated discussions. You know, we haven't had that for a long, long time, but it's because we have to give each other the freedom to be ourselves. You know, and really, that's what, that's really, how the two become one flesh because they're...

Joyce Meyer: You know, you accept the person's flaws. And you almost, like, things that, things that used to make me so mad that Dave would do, now, they're almost funny. They're almost humorous to me.

Ginger Stache: "Almost," you said.

Joyce Meyer: Almost.

Dave Meyer: When I'd play golf, she used to fight me. She'd used to say, "You can't play golf. You can't play golf". And I said, "Well, I'm gonna play golf".

Erin Cluley: Well, I'd be mad, too.

Dave Meyer: So, over a long period of time, now, she's got to the point, over all those years, now, she's got to the point where she's, "Why don't you go play golf"?

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, "Why don't you go play golf, go".

Erin Cluley: So, how do you determine like, what are the things that are important enough to have a heated conversation about? And what are the things that you just let go, and give them just the room to be themselves?

Joyce Meyer: Well, obviously, if what somebody's doing this sinful, you know, you would need to confront that. But most of the things that people end up getting a divorce over, really, not in all situations, you know, there's adultery, and things like that, or drugs, or alcohol abuse, but most, I would say the majority of things that people get divorces for are just incompatibility. Well, who is compatible? I mean, really, nobody is, unless you decide to be, on purpose. And so, you have to kinda learn to pick your battles. And like, Dave knows my personality. It's a little bit, I guess, sassy would be a good word for it.

Dave Meyer: I wrote a good poem for it on that one time.

Joyce Meyer: I've usually, got something to say about everything.

Dave Meyer: I call her my "Sassy lassy".

Jai Williams: Sassy lassy.

Joyce Meyer: It really means a lot to me, that he lets me be myself. I don't feel pressured to be somebody else. And, you know, Dave loves sports and I don't really care anything about any of 'em. And, you know, that was a big thing for a long time. You just,you can't make somebody, not like something, if they like it. And you can't, like, he's got a little more of a laid-back personality, and I'm more aggressive. And you know, I always tried to make him be more aggressive. And he finally told me, one day, he said, "You better thank God, I am the way I am, or you wouldn't be doing what you're doing". And so, really, so often, God gives us the perfect person. But we stay so busy trying to make them be what we think they should be, that you never realize that God's given you what you'd need.

Dave Meyer: Well, actually, what happens is a, most of the time, in marriages, you're opposites, you know.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, tell me about it.

Dave Meyer: And so, what happens is you try and make the person be the way you are and you actually, married 'em because they have attributes that you don't have. And so, you're trying to make 'em be like you, and really,it's really not what you want.

Joyce Meyer: No.

Erin Cluley: But Dave, I know the right way. I'm right.

Jai Williams: I've seen so many people, these days get, like, divorced over such little things. Like, even if you would of, like, a younger couple, that,or a newer couple like, would have still been upset about the polo shirt thing. Like, I mean, ya'll just sitting here acting like, I'm like, "You're not mad about that"? "You're not mad about"...

Jai Williams: You know, but people these days are literally, I had a conversation with someone the other day, I'm like, "Seriously, that's why you're getting a divorce"? Like, everybody's just so quick to let things go and hold on to the most petty arguments. And like, I love that, to see how you all just kind of like,it was a moment. You still were a little upset about it. You're like, "I picked the shirt out," but then, you're like, now, you all are laughing about,you know.

Dave Meyer: We joke about things, mistakes, you know.

Joyce Meyer: It didn't really make me mad 'cuz I know how he is.

Jai Williams: But I love that. I love that, though. The younger,couples now...

Ginger Stache: But you have to learn that. It takes time. Tim and I are very different. I mean, we are opposites. And I am very hard to live with. I mean, I'm just headstrong, fiercely independent. And so, in the beginning, we had a lot to learn through that. I had a lot to learn. And we had a lot to figure out together. But you do tend to, not only come together, but you learn how to do things differently, for one another, without changing who you are. So, I was laughing yesterday, when we were at a drugstore and we were waiting in line for the pharmacy. And the line was long, so, of course, I didn't have a lot of patience for that, and I was getting bored. And so, I had of a bottle of vitamins in my hand, and they were playing musak, over the speakers. And so, I started shaking the bottle with the music, and kind of dancing around. And tim, when we first got married, would be like, "Stop it"! 'cuz he'd be so embarrassed. 'Cuz basically, I've embarrassed him for 36 years now. So, he,but this time, he just looks at me, and he just knows it's gonna happen. So, then, we're walking through the aisles more and I thought he was pushing me, and I said, "Do you want me to turn? Why are you pushing me"? And he said, "I was trying to hold your hand".

Jai Williams: Oh!

Ginger Stache: And I said, "It felt like you were shoving me". And he goes, "Oh, yeah, because that works so well on you". So, anyway, we still have a lot to learn. But I'm so interested, Jai, in what you said earlier, 'cuz you said something about your own situation, and that "It's too late for me". But thank you for sharing what you're sharing. And I think that's really important because I want to think about all of the people, all of our friends who are watching right now, the different situations that we're all in. And I think of you and Mike too, and what you've been through recently, and just different things that are happening in their lives. And for you, does, is it important for you to see a hope for love in the future, you know? To learn, like we all need to learn, "Ok, what are my possibilities? What can God do"?

Jai Williams: Oh, a hundred percent. Like, it's definitely,i think, that's why I always am grateful for the way that you share your entire story, you know, because it helps you feel like, "Okay, there's light at the other end of the tunnel". 'Cuz, honestly, I'm just saying, 'cuz my divorce wasn't final until like, a few months ago. Like, I've been going through this for a while, but my divorce wasn't final until a few months ago. And honestly, I was at a place where I'm like, I don't... I don't know if I can trust anyone again. You know, I don't know if I can get to the point where, and then, I'm like, do i, because everybody wants you to just move on. Christians, you know, like, want you to, "Just move forward". I am moving forward, but I still have moments. I still have healing that I'm going through. But to hear that you still, even in your marriage, like you,God gave you someone that can, that could deal with, where you are. 'Cuz, I just shared recently, some positions of where I was in my, I went to my first wedding after being divorced. And that was the most difficult environment to be in,to be. And it like,it was people that I loved, it was people that I was happy for, that actually, before I even found out about the divorce, I was like counseling, like helping them, you know. 'Cuz that's what I've been doing for years, you know. But then, to feel like, "Oh, my gosh. Everything that I've ever told them", like, "I'm not even worthy of, I can't say anything about this anymore". And so, to hear you being able to know that you've gone through that and still be able to,God restore your heart, and have someone that comes into your life to, that can help you heal through that, I think it's important.

Joyce Meyer: Well, I just really, I really want to convey the message to people to stop looking for reasons to get a divorce, and start looking for reasons to stay together. You know, don't, think about the good things and not just the bad things. I actually, remember, one time, God put this on my heart. I was mad at Dave about something and...

Dave Meyer: Oh, you're kidding.

Joyce Meyer: You never knew that, did you?

Erin Cluley: She hid it so well.

Joyce Meyer: I took out a piece of paper and I made a list of everything that I didn't like about Dave. And then, I made a list of everything that I did like about him. You know, the amazing thing was, was the list of things I liked was so much longer than the list of things that I didn't like. But we tend to focus on the few things that we don't like...

Ginger Stache: Did that surprise you, when you saw the list?

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, it did. It did, it did. Because you,i had only focused on, "Well, he's not this, and he's not this," or, "He is this, and he is that". And I think that's one of the reasons why we are still married is because Dave is always been a real positive person. And he is easygoing, you know, he's not quick to get angry. And I think that he looked at the good parts more than he looked at the bad parts. And I don't know of anybody that could stay married, if all you do is look at what's wrong with the other person, all the time. Because what you focus on becomes magnified, it becomes bigger than what it really, actually, is in your life.

Dave Meyer: You know, you can,in any relationship, it's not gonna be perfect. Doesn't matter what relationship it is, it's not gonna be perfect. And it's amazing how people come into marriage and think it's going to be a perfect relationship.

Ginger Stache: HallMark movies look like that.

Dave Meyer: They get out of marriage because it's not a perfect relationship. They'll have a relationship with somebody else but it's not a perfect relationship and continue that relationship. So, it's really the devil. He gets in there, and he starts working on things, and starts to really get you in an area. You know, one of the things, I'd like to talk about here, was Joyce,when we got in a heated discussion...

Joyce Meyer: Uh-oh, "Joyce..."

Dave Meyer: She would remember things from years ago. And I said, "Where do you put all this stuff? How do you", I'd forget it. After we had a discussion, I'd forget it.

Ginger Stache: There's a little filing cabinet.

Dave Meyer: The next day, I'd forget it. And I'd say, "How,you must have a computer for a brain. How do you keep all that stuff and remember all that stuff"? I said, "I couldn't remember last week what we argued about," you know.

Joyce Meyer: The Bible says, "Love takes no account of the evil done to it". In other words, it doesn't keep records of wrongs. And so,and now, I'm not that way anymore. I mean, now, I mean, maybe, I could remember Dave and I having a couple of arguments in the last year, but I really couldn't tell you what they were about, now. Because I do forgive and let go of things really fast. And that's so important in a marriage, because if you don't let go of it, the longer you hang on to it, the bigger it's going to seem to you. And it just,all I can say is, do everything you can to make the one you've got work. And, like I said, there's times when it won't. You know, I realize there are serious situations. You don't want to let somebody abuse you. You know, there's definitely reasons why it won't work. But I'm talking mainly, about the people that just, they let petty things become major things. Or somebody does do something wrong in a relationship and the person just, you just won't forgive 'em. "I just won't forgive you. I'm not going to forgive you". You know, I mean, you've been through that. You've had things you've had to forgive.

Ginger Stache: I have: hard things to forgive.

Joyce Meyer: There are very hard things to forgive. Things you could have easily said, you know, "I'm getting a divorce," and felt justified in doing it. But you made a decision that you wanted to do it God's way.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, he's not easy to live with, either. I'll just throw that out there, 'cuz I said that I'm not.

Joyce Meyer: Well, let me just say, Dave's not as perfect as everybody thinks he is.

Ginger Stache: But so glad. I'm so glad that we did make the decisions that we made, that we worked through things. And they were things that God helped us, and we could work through. And not everybody is in that situation, I understand that.

Joyce Meyer: Well, Jai's husband wouldn't work through it.

Jai Williams: And that's one of the things that I'm the most grateful for. In the moment, like, I felt like, stupid. 'Cuz I wanted to have that moment, like, once you,once you find out about, you know, like, your husband cheating on you or something like that, you just wanna have your moment. Like, the movies, too. The other movies, of the women that bust the windows out the car! And well, I mean, I'm sorry. I had a moment. But you wanna have that moment of feeling like you've been vindicated. And I wanted to serve him with papers, but God would not allow me to. He told me to sit still, and I constantly said, "I'm married until I'm not," you know. And like, I was praying over our marriage. I was asking him, but I can't force someone. He served me with papers, and I said, "If you did that, then", I mean, it's, I mean, I only had 30 days to respond. So, I had to sign it back, even though, but, I felt so little doing that. But, honestly, on the other side of divorce, I still feel a peace about the fact that I tried, I did everything in my possible...

Joyce Meyer: And that's good that you have that. That you know, that you did the best that you could. You know, I'm sure that there are people watching today, and you're contemplating marriage, you're thinking about getting married, and I just wanna tell you that after you get married, you're gonna find out things that you don't know right now. For example, when Dave and I got married, I did not know he played golf.

Ginger Stache: And it's not the golf that's a weird, terrible thing, but he played a lot, right?

Joyce Meyer: A lot, yes.

Dave Meyer: Oh,i don't know about that.

Joyce Meyer: A lot. You're outnumbered here.

Dave Meyer: Once a week was a lot.

Joyce Meyer: Not only was it that. He liked football, baseball, basketball. He even starting liking sports he didn't even play: tennis, and hockey, you know.

Dave Meyer: I still do.

Joyce Meyer: I said, "He liked anything that bounced or rolled, he liked it".

Ginger Stache: I caught Tim watching putt-putt golf on TV, one time.

Erin Cluley: That's on TV?

Ginger Stache: Yeah, it was. Any sport, he's all over it.

Joyce Meyer: Oh, Dave watched bowling, anything, and I was just like, "Really"? You know.

Dave Meyer: And she even bowled in a league when we were younger.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, so, you are gonna find out things that you don't now, and you need to just set your head for that, that, you know, when you marry somebody they come "As is," you know. Maybe you haven't seen the little tag on there, but there's an "As is" tag on there. That means that, you know, there are going to be some flaws. Nobody is perfect and without fault. But we normally,we magnify everybody else's and we look at ourselves through what I call "Rose colored glasses". You know, we can always make an excuse for us but for you there is no excuse.

Ginger Stache: Erin, you and Mike, had a big event, not too long ago, where you guys made the decision... Tell us a little bit about what you guys did.

Erin Cluley: So, we have been through a really difficult year, this past year. And it was the kind, where I was listening to you a lot, talk about don't, don't focus on the bad and look for the good, and stay and make it work and, can't tell you how helpful that was. So, we have just been working on a lot this year and talking through, "We're gonna stick this out, we know God put us together". So, I needed, I needed to renew my vows with him because, it wasn't so much about a big thing I needed to do. My heart needed to recommit to him that I'm going to stick this out. And, "You are not perfect. I know more about you now, than I knew when I said, 'yes'. I don't love everything that you do, but I love you, and I choose you". So, we renewed our vows, a couple weeks ago and, just with my parents, and my sister and her husband. And there is something so special about it, because it wasn't about the stuff. It wasn't about the ceremony. It wasn't about the dress. It was, "I have committed my life to you, and I'm gonna stay married to you," and vice versa. So, it kind of changed, not changed, but re-establish what marriage means to us.

Joyce Meyer: I think that what you're saying is very important because I do remember a time where I just was like, "I don't know if I can do this anymore".

Erin Cluley: Yes.

Joyce Meyer: "I just don't know if I can do this anymore". And not that whatever he was doing was all that terrible, but I had made it out to be. And I remember making a decision that I was committed to this, and I was not, "I'm in". And I think that you have to come to that place, otherwise, you're always gonna be going back and forth, and there's always gonna be a reason why now, you may leave or you're not gonna make it work. But that commitment that you made, you're basically saying, "I'm going to stick it out, no matter what". Where, when people get married, they may say that, but they don't really know what's coming.

Erin Cluley: Right, exactly. In the vows that we wrote to each other, we wrote each other letters, we both said, "This is what we promised 11 years ago, we had no idea what that would mean, in actuality". We just were two kids who thought the world was gonna be perfect like that hallmark movie and everything was gonna be rosy. But exactly, what you just said, a couple months ago, the Holy Spirit spoke so strongly to me, and said, "You have to make a decision. You cannot keep saying this or that. You have to decide you're gonna stick this out, and then, make your, 'yes,' be, 'yes'".

Dave Meyer: And when you do that, you open the door for God to start moving in your life. Otherwise, you're basically, handling it by yourself, you know. But when you make a new commitment, then you're saying, "God, I need you to show me what to do, and how to do it".

Joyce Meyer: And you do, you have to accept people with their flaws. You have to, because they're just not, I mean, there's certain things that I'm always gonna do, and if Dave wants to stay married to me, he'll just have to put up with it, because I'll always do it. And there's certain things...

Dave Meyer: I have.

Joyce Meyer: There's certain things that you do too, that you know, could...

Dave Meyer: Oh, yeah. I know.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, you do stuff, too. That could, you know, irritate me. That, it's just like, "That's Dave. He's not gonna change. I love him, I'm staying married to him".

Dave Meyer: Actually, I married her for the fire, you know. That's one of the things I married her for. I liked that fire.

Joyce Meyer: Well, it won't go out.

Dave Meyer: I know that. If it does, I'd stoke the embers. Anyway, she would, when we had heated discussions, a long time ago, I'd say, and the way to throw water on her heated discussion, was to say, "There's that old fire. I love it. Come on. I love it".

Joyce Meyer: He'd make a joke out of it. I'd be spitfire mad, and here, he's making a joke out of it.

Jai Williams: I have a quick question. So, I'm reengaging in the dating scene, ok?

Dave Meyer: You what?

Jai Williams: Reengaging, or like allowing myself, opening my heart...

Joyce Meyer: To date.

Jai Williams: To potentially, yes. Even though, I was like... But I'm trying. What was a date like with Dave and Joyce? Like at,in the beginning, when he was courting you. How did you court her?

Ginger Stache: You only had a few, right?

Dave Meyer: Five dates.

Jai Williams: Well, then give me date number three, or something.

Dave Meyer: I went to her house a lot of times, you know, but, and spent time with her there. But we actually, only had like, five official dates. I took her to a basketball game, to a movie, to,out to bowl.

Joyce Meyer: Played poker with his brother one night.

Dave Meyer: And I knew it, was the girl for me when we went out the bowl, and I said, "You want something to drink"? And she said, "Yeah, I'll have a beer". And I said,and she said, "I'll have a falstaff". And I said, falstaff was a beer, at that time, in St. Louis. I said, "You wanna glass"? And she said, "No, I'll drink it out of the bottle".

Ginger Stache: "This is the one for me".

Joyce Meyer: "Bottle will be just fine".

Dave Meyer: "I'll just have the bottle".

Jai Williams: Oh, I love that so much. I love it.

Erin Cluley: Will you tell us how you met? I do love that story.

Dave Meyer: Yes, I will. This guy I worked with, in the engineering field, he needed a ride home one night. And so, I said, "Sure. I'll give you a ride home". And so, when I was pulling up in front of,what,i didn't know it was her parents' home. She was outside washing her car in short shorts. And I said, "Wow, she's cute".

Dave Meyer: Back then, you had to roll the window down like this... So, I rolled down the winda' and I said, "Hey, after you're done washing that car, you wanna wash mine"? And she looked at me, she stared at me, she says, "Buddy, if you want your car washed, wash it yourself". What went off in me, like a stick of dynamite, was, "That's the girl for me".

Ginger Stache: I can see it like a cartoon. Your eyes go...Rerr...Rerr...

Joyce Meyer: He either had to be a total lunatic, or he was being led by the Holy Spirit.

Dave Meyer: I actually, had prayed. You know, I was dating three girls, at the time, because I knew it was time to get married.

Joyce Meyer: He just didn't believe in prayer, he believed in prayer with works.

Erin Cluley: Make sure you really hear from God.

Dave Meyer: I was 26 years old, had spent three years in the service and come back and it was time to get married. And so, I prayed, and I said, "God, I wanna get married, and I need you to show me who to marry". And I said, "Give me somebody that needs help". I didn't know, at the time, when I made that statement to her and she came back real sharply, I didn't know, at the time, that she had all these problems. But, I thought, "Any normal guy would have ran from this, real quick". But, it actually, just drew me.

Joyce Meyer: It challenged him.

Dave Meyer: And so, the next day, she needed a ride home because her car went in the shop. So, the guy that i, he needed a ride home again. And he said, "Can you pick Joyce up"? And I said, "Yeah, but you're sitting in the back seat". So, she sat in the front seat, and I said, "So, you won't wash my car, huh"? And she smiled. And soon as she did that it just broke the ice.

Ladies: Aww!

Dave Meyer: By the time I got her home, I had her phone number and called her a day later, and it was history after that. And we had five dates. I was at her house, quite a bit of time, but we had...

Joyce Meyer: You really weren't at my house.

Dave Meyer: Yes, I would. I used to come to your house quite a bit.

Joyce Meyer: My dad was a nut. He didn't let anybody come over there.

Dave Meyer: I know. He didn't mess with me.

Joyce Meyer: Well, he worked nights, so you might have come over at night.

Dave Meyer: I saw him once in a while, not very often.

Ginger Stache: See, I love this because it's real life. You know, it's talking, I think people sometimes get this idea of marriage that there shouldn't be any bumps, there shouldn't be like, especially, a godly marriage. You know, we're just gonna know through what God's word says, how to do this, and it's all gonna be perfect, and it doesn't work that way. I've got a whole list of scriptures here about marriage, and honestly, so much of it is what you're talking about. It's the Holy Spirit guiding us, because it's a walk. It's not a, "Oh, here's the answer, right here, in Ephesians". I mean, yes, it's there. It talks about marriage all through it, but it's so much of God's spirit helping us, and just going through it.

Joyce Meyer: And you know, the bottom line is, Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey me". He did not say, "If you obey me, I will love you". He's already committed to loving us. But he said, "If you love me, you will obey me". And I do think, that people that have committed their life to Christ, that you need to be willing to do things for the Lord, that you might not be willing to do for a person. And if you will do things because you love God, do them right, because you love God, he will make things work out in your life.

Dave Meyer: When I was younger, you know, and when we got married,you know, when I was younger, I had a strong relationship with the Lord. But then, when we got married, you know, I had prayed for somebody that needs help. And so, when she began to open up, you know, all the things that she had gone through, which I knew nothing about, when she started opening up on that, then, you know, it did not shock me because I had prayed, previously, that I wanted to help, you know, I wanted somebody that needed the help. And so, that didn't really shock me. And it probably,something like that, if you weren't prepared ahead of time, you know, it might have really gotten you in a situation like, "Whoa, what did I marry here"? You know, but, as far as, her dumping her life on me, that didn't affect me at all.

Ginger Stache: Joyce, any advice for women in a marriage, going into a marriage, dating, whatever it may be, who have been through abusive situations: what's some advice to help them to begin, or make it through a relationship when you've got real hurt?

Joyce Meyer: Well, one of the things that we tend to do is, when you've been hurt, abused, mistreated, you feel like you're owed something. And, in a way, you are, but you end up trying to collect from the wrong person. And so, don't, my advice is, don't marry somebody and then blame them for what somebody else did to you, and try to get them to pay you back. Only God can pay you back. That's what he taught me. Only God,he's our vindicator. "I will repay," the Lord says. And so, if we will do things, God's way, he will repay you. I mean, my gosh. We've got such a wonderful life now, and God's allowed us to be in this ministry, and we're getting to help so many people. And who would have ever thought, in their wildest imagination, the first three years of our marriage, that we would be doing something like this? I mean, it would have been just like so far from impossible. That it,wouldn't have been amazing. But honestly, if people will do things God's way because of their love for God, no matter how hard it is, God will pay you back, he will reward you. The Bible says, in Isaiah 61 that, "God will give you double blessing for your former trouble". And it even says, "He'll give you honor, for the shame that you had". And so, God is faithful to his word. And I just want to say again, I'm repeating myself, but be willing to do things God's way, no matter how hard it might be, and you'll be amazed at what God will do in your life.

Ginger Stache: Thank you both, so much. And you guys too, really, thank you for sharing. I just think it's so important and so helpful for people who are with us here, and we also, have a free Bible study that you can do online, that is called "Keys to a stronger marriage". And I think you're gonna love it. You can go to joycemeyer.Org and find out more about that. It's free. It's there to help you. It will tell you more about what God's word says, and help you plug into that power of the Holy Spirit that we've been talking about all along. We also want to invite you to something extremely exciting. And Joyce is going to be the headliner of our women's conference, which is coming up. The love life women's conference, October 8th and 9th. It's an online event. And Joyce, it's gonna be fun.

Joyce Meyer: It is, it is. And you know, even though we've got COVID and pandemics, and we've found ways to work around that to keep ministering the word to people. And we've had so many people join us on these online events. And you know, God's just making it work beautifully. So, I really do want to encourage you to join us. It's going to be on Friday night and Saturday morning. And we have other people speaking, as well as, me.

Ginger Stache: So many fun guests this time. It's going to be great. And you can get it on-demand. So, you can watch it after that, and share it with friends, and I hope all of you will be there 'cuz it will be so much fun. Go to: joycemeyer.Org/lovelife21 to register, right now. Just don't even wait on anything else. Go do it. Go do it, right now, 'cuz we all want to see you there. And also, go to to sign up for our friend's list. It's a great way to be reminded of what episodes are coming out and when, and all the fun stuff, get some behind-the-scenes thing. Thank you all very much again, for being with us.

Ladies: Thank you.

Ginger Stache: Thank you, Dave, for being our first male guest.

Jai Williams: It wasn't that bad?

Dave Meyer: No, I was surprised I got words in.

Ginger Stache: You did, you did, you got lots of words in. He sat down and he goes, "I dunno, it's a little girly".

Joyce Meyer: I told him, "That's all he's getting today. He's said all he gets to say". The rest of the day's mine.

Ginger Stache: And we're gonna close out today, with a special little story, as told by Joyce and Dave, that we know you're gonna love.

Joyce Meyer: We opened a new safety deposit box. And we wanted to put a couple of our kids on it. And so, Dave and my one son-in-law was on it, and so my son-in-law says to me, "Well, I have one key, and dad's got the other key. And so, you're gonna have to find his key, so when you, when you take it, to get the other two kids on there", and I didn't have my name on there yet, that, you know, they'll, "You'll be able to get into it and do whatever you need to do". So, I went to Dave and said, "Where's the key to the safety deposit box"? "I don't know". I said, "What do you mean, you don't know? You got the other key". He says, "I don't know". I said, "Well, Steve said he gave it to you. You got one when you went to the bank. Where's it at"? "I don't know". So, for three days, I'm like, "Find the key," "Look for the key," "Where's the key," "Find the key". So, he finally, starts searching everything. Could not find the key anywhere, anywhere, anyway. Okay, so for two days, I'm thinking "Well, I bet if it would have been the key to your golf bag, you'd know where it was". Uh-huh, yep. Now, I know you don't think like that, but. I would find myself thinking, "Be nice if you'd just be a little bit more responsible when it comes to this kind of stuff". And then, I'd think, "No, Joyce, you shouldn't think that. No, no, no". And oh, then, I'd wanna say something so bad. How many of you know, when you're just like, you wanna say it so bad? But you know, if you do, you're gonna start something. And it's like, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace. Okay, so, we couldn't find the key, couldn't find the key. So, I told my son-in-law, "Okay, find out," you know, "If we can get other keys". And he said, "Oh, no, we only give out two keys. If you want a new key, you gotta drill the lock out of the box. It's going to cost you $200 to get a new lock, and get new keys". So, I go back to him. "It is going to cost $200, for us to drill this out". And I said, "You know, this happened once before. The last time we had a safety deposit box, you also lost the key, and we had to drill the lock out, and we could not find it. You should have kept up with that key". So, I'm going upstairs, one morning, and I thought, "I wonder if I have that key". Go away.

Dave Meyer: Listen. I sat there, as long as I could sit. This is my story. She's got this mentality that, "I am right. I am always right".

Joyce Meyer: Oh, and you don't have that mentality?

Dave Meyer: I'm talking now.

Joyce Meyer: Pray for me right now! Pray for me!

Dave Meyer: Anyway, she's,all this time, she's told me I've got the key. So, I'm looking everywhere. I'm looking everywhere for the key. And I look it for four days on and off. On the fourth day, I'm sitting at the breakfast table with her, and she says, "Did you find that key? Have you looked for the key yet"? In different places. And I said, "I haven't looked at the office yet. I'm gonna look at the office," in my desk, at the office. And she says, "You sure, it's not somewhere else". I said, "No, I've looked everywhere else". And so, she got up from the breakfast table, and as she was leaving the table, this thought came to me, "What if she's got the key"? Now, that is the Holy Ghost. I knew it, immediately, that's the Holy Ghost.

Joyce Meyer: Oh, yeah, you got a word of knowledge, right? And as she was going upstairs, to her office, the same thought came to her. "You know, I better check my, in my closet just to see". And she goes in her closet, well, I had called my son-in-law and asked him what the key looked like, so I could identify it, you know, if I find, when I looked for it. And she comes out of her closet holding this key, dangling it. Of course, I recognize it, right away. And she says, "Is this the key"? I said,one of our helpers, our armor bearers is in the kitchen, and immediately I said, "Praise the Lord"! And she had egg all over her face. Now...

Joyce Meyer: And he has not let me forget it.

Dave Meyer: I said...

Joyce Meyer: "You maintain peace by having a humble attitude"!

Dave Meyer: Hey, you haven't been maintaining peace up here, for a long time. Anyway, not only does she find that key...

Dave Meyer: But then, then she goes back and finds the other key from years before.

Joyce Meyer: I had both of 'em!

Dave Meyer: She did not only have egg on her face, she was buried in egg. And I was so thankful. And I said, "Lord, thank you. That'll take care of me for a couple years".

Joyce Meyer: Go, sit down.
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