Joyce Meyer - Keys to Marriage - Part 2
Hey, friends! Welcome to, "Enjoying Everyday Life". Today, we continue our discussion on marriage and relationships with Joyce, and our very special guest, Dave Meyer. You see, we all sat down with Jai and Erin Culley, on a recent, talk it out podcast focusing on the keys to marriage and great relationships, whether you're married or not. Dave and Joyce have learned a lot in their over 50 years together. And as we said, we shared it on the talk it out podcast, and Joyce said, "I really want to share this on, 'Enjoying Everyday Life'". So, here's more encouragement on how to make our relationships great. Let's talk it out.
Joyce Meyer: I really want to convey the message to people to stop looking for reasons to get a divorce, and start looking for reasons to stay together. You know, think about the good things and not just the bad things. I actually, remember, one time, God put this on my heart. I was mad at Dave about something and...
Dave: Oh, you're kidding.
Joyce Meyer: You never knew that, did you?
Erin: She hid it so well.
Joyce Meyer: I took out a piece of paper and I made a list of everything that I didn't like about Dave. And then, I made a list of everything that I did like about him. You know, the amazing thing was, was the list of things I liked was so much longer than the list of things that I didn't like. But we tend to focus on the few things that we don't like...
Ginger: Did that surprise you, when you saw the list?
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, it did. It did, it did. Because I had only focused on, "Well, he's not this, and he's not this," or, "He is this, and he is that". And I think that's one of the reasons why we are still married is because Dave is always been a real positive person. And he is easygoing, you know, he's not quick to get angry. And I think that he looked at the good parts more than he looked at the bad parts. And I don't know of anybody that could stay married, if all you do is look at what's wrong with the other person, all the time. Because what you focus on becomes magnified, it becomes bigger than what it really, actually, is in your life.
Dave: You know, you can, in any relationship, it's not gonna be perfect. Doesn't matter what relationship it is, it's not gonna be perfect. And it's amazing how people come into marriage and think it's going to be a perfect relationship.
Ginger: HallMark movies look like that.
Dave: They get out of marriage because it's not a perfect relationship. They'll have a relationship with somebody else but it's not a perfect relationship and continue that relationship. So, it's really the devil. He gets in there, and he starts working on things, and starts to really get you in an area. You know, one of the things, I'd like to talk about here, was Joyce, when we got in a heated discussion...
Joyce Meyer: Uh-oh, "Joyce"...
Dave: ...She would remember things from years ago. And I said, "Where do you put all this stuff? How do you", I'd forget it. After we had a discussion, I'd forget it.
Ginger: There's a little filing cabinet.
Dave: The next day, I'd forget it. And I'd say, "You must have a computer for a brain. How do you keep all that stuff and remember all that stuff"? I said, "I couldn't remember last week what we argued about," you know.
Joyce Meyer: The Bible says, "Love takes no account of the evil done to it". In other words, it doesn't keep records of wrongs. And now, I'm not that way anymore. I mean, now, I mean, maybe, I could remember Dave and I having a couple of arguments in the last year, but I really couldn't tell you what they were about, now. Because I do forgive and let go of things really fast. And that's so important in a marriage, because if you don't let go of it, the longer you hang on to it, the bigger it's going to seem to you. And all I can say is, do everything you can to make the one you've got work. And, like I said, there's times when it won't. You know, I realize there are serious situations. You don't want to let somebody abuse you. You know, there's definitely reasons why it won't work. But I'm talking mainly, about the people that just, they let petty things become major things. Or somebody does do something wrong in a relationship and the person just, you just won't forgive 'em. "I just won't forgive you. I'm not going to forgive you". You know, I mean, you've been through that. You've had things you've had to forgive.
Ginger: I have: hard things to forgive.
Joyce Meyer: There are very hard things to forgive. Things you could have easily said, you know, "I'm getting a divorce," and felt justified in doing it. But you made a decision that you wanted to do it God's way.
Ginger: Yeah, he's not easy to live with, either. I'll just throw that out there, 'cuz I said that I'm not.
Joyce Meyer: Well, let me just say, dave's not as perfect as everybody thinks he is.
Ginger: But so glad. I'm so glad that we did make the decisions that we made, that we worked through things. And they were things that God helped us, and we could work through. And not everybody is in that situation, I understand that.
Joyce Meyer: Well, Jai's husband wouldn't work through it.
Jai: And that's one of the things that I'm the most grateful for. In the moment, like, I felt like, stupid. 'Cuz I wanted to have that moment, like, once you find out about, you know, like, your husband cheating on you or something like that, you just wanna have your moment. Like, the movies, too. The other movies, of the women that bust the windows out the car! And well, I mean, I'm sorry. I had a moment. But you wanna have that moment of feeling like you've been vindicated. And I wanted to serve him with papers, but God would not allow me to. He told me to sit still, and I constantly said, "I'm married until I'm not," you know. And like, I was praying over our marriage. I was asking him, but I can't force someone. He served me with papers, and I said, "If you did that, then", I mean, I only had 30 days to respond. So, I had to sign it back, even though, I felt so little doing that. But, honestly, on the other side of divorce, I still feel a peace about the fact that I tried, I did everything in my possible...
Joyce Meyer: And that's good that you have that. That you know, that you did the best that you could. You know, I'm sure that there are people watching today, and you're contemplating marriage, you're thinking about getting married, and I just wanna tell you that after you get married, you're gonna find out things that you don't know right now. For example, when Dave and I got married, I did not know he played golf.
Ginger: And it's not the golf that's a weird, terrible thing, but he played a lot, right?
Joyce Meyer: A lot, yes.
Dave: Oh, I don't know about that.
Joyce Meyer: Nah... a lot. You're outnumbered here.
Dave: Once a week was a lot.
Joyce Meyer: Not only was it that. He liked football, baseball, basketball. He even starting liking sports he didn't even play: tennis, and hockey, you know.
Dave: I still do.
Joyce Meyer: I said, "He liked anything that bounced or rolled, he liked it". You are gonna find out things that you don't now, and you need to just set your head for that, that, you know, when you marry somebody they come "As is," you know. Maybe you haven't seen the little tag on there, but there's an "As is" tag on there. That means that, you know, there are going to be some flaws. Nobody is perfect and without fault. But we normally magnify everybody else's and we look at ourselves through what I call "Rose colored glasses". You know, we can always make an excuse for us but for you there is no excuse.
Ginger: Erin, you and mike, had a big event, not too long ago, where you guys made the decision... Tell us a little bit about what you guys did.
Erin: So, we have been through a really difficult year, this past year. And it was the kind, where I was listening to you a lot, talk about don't focus on the bad and look for the good, and stay and make it work and, can't tell you how helpful that was. So, we have just been working on a lot this year and talking through, "We're gonna stick this out, we know God put us together". So, I needed to renew my vows with him because, it wasn't so much about a big thing I needed to do. My heart needed to recommit to him that I'm going to stick this out. And, "You are not perfect. I know more about you now, than I knew when I said, 'yes'. I don't love everything that you do, but I love you, and I choose you". So, we renewed our vows, a couple weeks ago, just with my parents, and my sister and her husband. And there is something so special about it, because it wasn't about the stuff. It wasn't about the ceremony. It wasn't about the dress. It was, "I have committed my life to you, and I'm gonna stay married to you," and vice versa. So, it kind of re-establish what marriage means to us.
Joyce Meyer: I think that what you're saying is very important because I do remember a time where I just was like, "I don't know if I can do this anymore".
Joyce Meyer: "I just don't know if I can do this anymore". And not that whatever he was doing was all that terrible, but I had made it out to be. And I remember making a decision that I was committed to this, and I was not, "I'm in". And I think that you have to come to that place, otherwise, you're always gonna be going back and forth, and there's always gonna be a reason why now, you may leave or you're not gonna make it work. But that commitment that you made, you're basically saying, "I'm going to stick it out, no matter what". Where, when people get married, they may say that, but they don't really know what's coming.
Erin: Right, exactly. In the vows that we wrote to each other, we wrote each other letters, we both said, "This is what we promised 11 years ago, we had no idea what that would mean, in actuality". We just were two kids who thought the world was gonna be perfect like that hallmark movie and everything was gonna be rosy. But exactly, what you just said, a couple months ago, the Holy Spirit spoke so strongly to me, and said, "You have to make a decision. You cannot keep saying this or that. You have to decide you're gonna stick this out, and then, make your, 'yes,' be, 'yes'".
Dave: And when you do that, you open the door for God to start moving in your life. Otherwise, you're basically, handling it by yourself, you know. But when you make a new commitment, then you're saying, "God, I need you to show me what to do, and how to do it".
Joyce Meyer: And you do, you have to accept people with their flaws. You have to, because they're just not, I mean, there's certain things that I'm always gonna do, and if Dave wants to stay married to me, he'll just have to put up with it, because I'll always do it. And there's certain things...
Dave: I have.
Joyce Meyer: There's certain things that you do too, that you know, could...
Dave: Oh, yeah. I know.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, you do stuff, too. That could, you know, irritate me. That, it's just like, "That's Dave. He's not gonna change. I love him, I'm staying married to him".
Dave: Actually, I married her for the fire, you know. That's one of the things I married her for. I liked that fire.
Joyce Meyer: Well, it won't go out.
Dave: I know that. If it does, I'd stoke the embers. Anyway, when we had heated discussions, a long time ago, I'd say, and the way to throw water on her heated discussion, was to say, "There's that old fire. I love it. Come on. I love it".
Joyce Meyer: He'd make a joke out of it. I'd be spitfire mad, and here, he's making a joke out of it.
Jai: I have a quick question. So, I'm reengaging in the dating scene, ok?
Dave: You what?
Jai: Reengaging, or like allowing myself, opening my heart...
Joyce Meyer: To date.
Jai: To potentially, yes. Even though, I was like... But I'm trying. What was a date like with Dave and Joyce? Like in the beginning, when he was courting you. How did you court her?
Ginger: You only had a few, right?
Dave: Five dates.
Jai: Well, then give me date number three, or something.
Dave: I went to her house a lot of times, you know, and spent time with her there. But we actually, only had like, five official dates. I took her to a basketball game, to a movie, out to bowl.
Joyce Meyer: Played poker with his brother one night.
Jai: Oh, I love that so much. I love it.
Erin: Will you tell us how you met? I do love that story.
Dave: Yes, I will. This guy I worked with, in the engineering field, he needed a ride home one night. And so, I said, "Sure. I'll give you a ride home". And so, when I was pulling up in front of... I didn't know it was her parents' home. She was outside washing her car in short shorts. And I said, "Wow, she's cute".
Dave: Back then, you had to roll the window down like this... So, I rolled down the winda' and I said, "Hey, after you're done washing that car, you wanna wash mine"? And she stared at me, she says, "Buddy, if you want your car washed, wash it yourself". What went off in me, like a stick of dynamite, was, "That's the girl for me".
Ginger: I can see it like a cartoon. Your eyes go... Rerr... Rerr...
Joyce Meyer: He either had to be a total lunatic, or he was being led by the Holy Spirit.
Dave: I actually, had prayed. You know, I was dating three girls, at the time, because I knew it was time to get married.
Joyce Meyer: He just didn't believe in prayer, he believed in prayer with works.
Erin: Make sure you really hear from God.
Dave: I was 26 years old, had spent three years in the service and come back and it was time to get married. And so, I prayed, and I said, "God, I wanna get married, and I need you to show me who to marry". And I said, "Give me somebody that needs help". I didn't know, at the time, when I made that statement to her and she came back real sharply, I didn't know, at the time, that she had all these problems. But, I thought, "Any normal guy would have ran from this, real quick". But, it actually, just drew me.
Joyce Meyer: It challenged him.
Dave: And so, the next day, she needed a ride home because her car went in the shop. So, the guy that I, he needed a ride home again. And he said, "Can you pick Joyce up"? And I said, "Yeah, but you're sitting in the back seat". So, she sat in the front seat, and I said, "So, you won't wash my car, huh"? And she smiled. And soon as she did that it just broke the ice. By the time I got her home, I had her phone number and called her a day later, and it was history after that. And we had five dates.
Ginger: I think people sometimes get this idea of marriage that there shouldn't be any bumps, there shouldn't be like, especially, a godly marriage. You know, we're just gonna know through what God's word says, how to do this, and it's all gonna be perfect, and it doesn't work that way. I've got a whole list of scriptures here about marriage, and honestly, so much of it is what you're talking about. It's the Holy Spirit guiding us, because it's a walk. It's not a, "Oh, here's the answer, right here, in Ephesians". I mean, yes, it's there. It talks about marriage all through it, but it's so much of God's spirit helping us, and just going through it.
Joyce Meyer: And you know, the bottom line is, Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey me". He did not say, "If you obey me, I will love you". He's already committed to loving us. But he said, "If you love me, you will obey me". And I do think, that people that have committed their life to Christ, that you need to be willing to do things for the Lord, that you might not be willing to do for a person. And if you will do things because you love God, do them right, because you love God, he will make things work out in your life.
Dave: When I was younger, you know, and when we got married, you know, when I was younger, I had a strong relationship with the Lord. But then, when we got married, you know, I had prayed for somebody that needs help. And so, when she began to open up, you know, all the things that she had gone through, which I knew nothing about, when she started opening up on that, then, you know, it did not shock me because I had prayed, previously, that I wanted to help, you know, I wanted somebody that needed the help. And so, that didn't really shock me. And it probably, something like that, if you weren't prepared ahead of time, you know, it might have really gotten you in a situation like, "Whoa, what did I marry here"? You know, but, as far as, her dumping her life on me, that didn't affect me at all.
Ginger: Joyce, any advice for women in a marriage, going into a marriage, dating, whatever it may be, who have been through abusive situations: what's some advice to help them to begin, or make it through a relationship when you've got real hurt?
Joyce Meyer: Well, one of the things that we tend to do is, when you've been hurt, abused, mistreated, you feel like you're owed something. And, in a way, you are, but you end up trying to collect from the wrong person. And so, my advice is, don't marry somebody and then blame them for what somebody else did to you, and try to get them to pay you back. Only God can pay you back. That's what he taught me. Only God, he's our vindicator. "I will repay," the Lord says. And so, if we will do things, God's way, he will repay you. I mean, my gosh. We've got such a wonderful life now, and God's allowed us to be in this ministry, and we're getting to help so many people. And who would have ever thought, in their wildest imagination, the first three years of our marriage, that we would be doing something like this? I mean, it would have been just like so far from impossible. That wouldn't have been amazing. But honestly, if people will do things God's way because of their love for God, no matter how hard it is, God will pay you back, he will reward you. The Bible says, in Isaiah 61 that, "God will give you double blessing for your former trouble". And it even says, "He'll give you honor, for the shame that you had". And so, God is faithful to his word. And I just want to say again, I'm repeating myself, but be willing to do things God's way, no matter how hard it might be, and you'll be amazed at what God will do in your life.
Ginger: Thank you both, so much. And you guys too, really, thank you for sharing. I just think it's so important and so helpful for people who are with us here, and we also, have a free Bible study that you can do online, that is called "Keys to a Stronger Marriage". And I think you're gonna love it. You can go to joycemeyer.org and find out more about that. It's free. It's there to help you. It will tell you more about what God's word says, and help you plug into that power of the Holy Spirit that we've been talking about all along. And also, go to joycemeyer.org/talkitout to sign up for our friend's list. It's a great way to be reminded of what episodes are coming out and when, and all the fun stuff, get some behind-the-scenes thing. Thank you all very much again, for being with us. Thank you, Dave, for being our first male guest.
Jai: It wasn't that bad?
Dave: No, I was surprised I got words in.
Ginger: You did, you did, you got lots of words in. He sat down and he goes, "I dunno, it's a little girly".
Joyce Meyer: I told him, "That's all he's getting today. He's said all he gets to say". The rest of the day's mine.
Ginger: And we're gonna close out today, with a special little story, as told by Joyce and Dave, that we know you're gonna love.
Joyce Meyer: We opened a new safety deposit box. And we wanted to put a couple of our kids on it. And so, Dave and my one son-in-law was on it, and so my son-in-law says to me, "Well, I have one key, and dad's got the other key. And so, you're gonna have to find his key, so when you take it, to get the other two kids on there"... And I didn't have my name on there yet, that, you know, "You'll be able to get into it and do whatever you need to do". So, I went to Dave and said, "Where's the key to the safety deposit box"? "I don't know". I said, "What do you mean, you don't know? You got the other key". He says, "I don't know". I said, "Well, Steve said he gave it to you. You got one when you went to the bank. Where's it at"? "I don't know". So, for three days, I'm like, "Find the key," "Look for the key," "Where's the key," "Find the key". So, he finally, starts searching everything. Could not find the key anywhere, anywhere, anyway. Okay, so for two days, I'm thinking "Well, I bet if it would have been the key to your golf bag, you'd know where it was". Uh-huh, yep. Now, I know you don't think like that, but. I'd find myself thinking, "Be nice if you'd just be a little bit more responsible when it comes to this kind of stuff". And then, I'd think, "No, Joyce, you shouldn't think that. No, no, no". And oh, then, I'd wanna say something so bad. How many of you know, when you're just like, you wanna say it so bad? But you know, if you do, you're gonna start something. And it's like, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace, peace. Okay, so, we couldn't find the key, couldn't find the key. So, I told my son-in-law, "Okay, find out," you know, "If we can get other keys". And he said, "Oh, no, we only give out two keys. If you want a new key, you gotta drill the lock out of the box. It's going to cost you $200 to get a new lock, and get new keys". So, I go back to him. "It is going to cost $200, for us to drill this out". And I said, "You know, this happened once before. The last time we had a safety deposit box, you also lost the key, and we had to drill the lock out, and we could not find it. You should have kept up with that key". So, I'm going upstairs, one morning, and I thought, "I wonder if I have that key". Go away.
Dave: Listen. I sat there, as long as I could sit. This is my story. She's got this mentality that, "I am right. I am always right".
Joyce Meyer: Oh, and you don't have that mentality?
Dave: I'm talking now.
Joyce Meyer: Pray for me right now! Pray for me!
Dave: Anyway, all this time, she's told me I've got the key. So, I'm looking everywhere. I'm looking everywhere for the key. And I look it for four days on and off. On the fourth day, I'm sitting at the breakfast table with her, and she says, "Did you find that key? Have you looked for the key yet"? In different places. And I said, "I haven't looked at the office yet. I'm gonna look at the office," in my desk, at the office. And she says, "You sure, it's not somewhere else". I said, "No, I've looked everywhere else". And so, she got up from the breakfast table, and as she was leaving the table, this thought came to me, "What if she's got the key"? Now, that is the Holy Ghost. I knew it, immediately, that's the Holy Ghost.
Joyce Meyer: Oh, yeah, you got a word of knowledge, right?
Dave: And as she was going upstairs, to her office, the same thought came to her. "You know, I better check in my closet just to see". And she goes in her closet. Well, I had called my son-in-law and asked him what the key looked like, so I could identify it, you know, when I looked for it. And she comes out of her closet holding this key, dangling it. Of course, I recognize it, right away. And she says, "Is this the key"? I said, one of our helpers, our armor bearers is in the kitchen, and immediately I said, "Praise the Lord"! And she had egg all over her face. Now...
Joyce Meyer: And he has not let me forget it.
Dave: I said...
Joyce Meyer: "You maintain peace by having a humble attitude"!
Dave: Hey, you haven't been maintaining peace up here, for a long time. Anyway, not only does she find that key, but then she goes back and finds the other key from years before.
Joyce Meyer: I had both of 'em!
Dave: She did not only have egg on her face, she was buried in egg. And I was so thankful. And I said, "Lord, thank you. That'll take care of me for a couple years".
Joyce Meyer: Go, sit down.