Jonathan Bernis - Last Days Countdown
Jonathan Bernis: Shalom, and welcome to Jewish Voice. I’m your host Jonathan Bernis and I’m joined today with our staff evangelist, co-host, rabbi Jack Zimmerman, a good friend. Gosh, Jack, we’ve known each other for decades, decades. But I wanted to get him back because he did an amazing program with us on the Palestinian, Israeli conflict. And today, we’re gonna talk about another conflict. You know, believers are diving into scripture from Daniel to Hosea, Ezekiel, Revelation, looking for end time scriptures. But often, one war is missing from the discussion, the war against Israel in Psalm 83. Jack, you know, we think of the Psalms, right, as songs of praise, of worship, ascending to the temple, right? «Create me a clean heart, o Lord». «I walk by still waters,» you know, like, «In the shadow of death». But Psalm 83 is different and it’s very, very intriguing. It talks about a specific war. It’s an end time prophecy actually in Psalms. Lay it out for us.
Jack Zimmerman: It’s a petition by Asaph, who was the chief musician for king David and Solomon in their time. And you’re right, this is a radical departure because most of these Psalms talk about exactly what you mentioned. This is a petition. This is a prayer to God saying, «Lord, there are impending enemies coming against Israel. And Lord, they’re not just coming against Israel, they’re coming against you. And so, protect us from this invasion». This coalition of ten nations who have promised not just to come against Israel and attack, because that’s old news, but they have promised to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.
Jonathan Bernis: Right, that’s so interesting. Of course, end time prophecy, you think of Jeremiah. You think of Daniel, right? You think of Hosea. You think of course, the Book of Revelation.
Jack Zimmerman: Yeah.
Jonathan Bernis: But Psalms, written by David, these Psalms of praise. But what’s happening is he’s, I think, the Holy Spirit is just, he doesn’t know what he’s writing necessarily. But he’s writing a last day’s end time prophecy, right? About an alliance that’s coming against Israel.
Jack Zimmerman: Very much so. And this is unusual because Asaph wrote 12 of the 150 Psalms. He wrote Psalms 50. He also wrote Psalms 73 through 83. This is one of the few that is prophetic. There were some who think, «Well, you know, he was a musician, etcetera. You know, he played instruments. He wasn’t a prophet». Not true. We’re told in 2 Chronicles that Asaph is identified as a chozeh. Now chozeh, in the Hebrew, means seer, but a seer is a prophet. It’s the same thing. The difference is a prophet basically says, «I’m gonna tell you what I’ve received from the Word of God». A seer says, «Not only am I gonna do that, but I’m gonna reveal the visions that God has given me as well». So, of course, this is a legitimate prophecy still to come, by the way, spoken of in Psalm 83 of these ten nations that have sworn to cut Israel off and wipe her off the face of the earth.
Jonathan Bernis: We have so many requests for teachings on end time prophecy. And to be honest, it’s not my focus. It’s not my expertise. I don’t know if there’s a pre-tribulation rapture, post tribulation, mid tribulation.
Jack Zimmerman: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: I have a guest in that talks about pre-tribulation and I am convinced the next week, post tribulation, I’m convinced, mid trib, I just believe in pan tribulation. It’s all gonna pan out in the end.
Jack Zimmerman: Amen.
Jonathan Bernis: But this is very, very intriguing. I wanna go through this because Israel is… Things have changed.
Jack Zimmerman: In a very, very short amount of time. And we look at these nations in Psalm 83, and there are those who say, «Wait a minute. Well, do we think that this might be happening now»? There were actually some who say, «Wait a minute. This prophecy was fulfilled in 1988, 1948 rather, during the war of independence». So, let’s take a quick look at Psalm 83, who these ten nations are or who they were in ancient times, and then we’ll get an idea of who they might be today. And the reason that I say, «Might be today,» is because scholars differ on the order of the countries that are listed. And that’s makes a big, big difference when we try to look at this in terms of end time prophecies.
Jonathan Bernis: Well, take us through it. Take us through it. I’m really interested. This is exciting.
Jack Zimmerman: Good, so, in Psalm 83, when we look at these lists of nations, we’re looking at mostly verses 5 through 9, this coalition of ten nations that would come against Israel that Asaph is petitioning God to hold off. So, we have the tents of Edom which many identify as Palestinians. And I’m emphasizing that because yes, we’ve got Palestinians, obviously, attacking Israel today, and southern Jordanians. Ishmaelites who are identified as the Saudis. Moab identified as Palestinians and also central Jordanians. Hagrites. And here is the key. The Hagrites in many orders of this chain are identified as Egyptians. I’m not convinced that they were Egyptians. Many are not convinced that they were Egyptians. Why? Because in 1 Chronicles 5:10 it says of the Hagrites, that the Hagrites lived, and they kept their tents east of Gilead. That’s not Egypt, that’s northern Jordan, so it doesn’t match. But also, let’s go through the rest of the parties in that list. And as we do, I want you to take note of these other countries and their ancient names. Gebal or Byblos, Hezbollah. That’s right now. Ammon, the Palestinians and northern Jordanians. That’s right now. Amalek, the Arabs of the Sinai area, which also, some others identify as Egypt. Again, not sure if it’s going to match. Because if you look at the Amalekites, they’re actually located, biblically, in the area of southern Israel, the desert, the Negev, up to the border of Egypt so it doesn’t qualify. Philistia, Hamas of the Gaza strip. Tyre, Hezbollah.
Jonathan Bernis: Well, that one is very intriguing, specifically Hamas, the Gaza strip.
Jack Zimmerman: Exactly.
Jonathan Bernis: Yes, specifically, that’s the area, the Gaza strip.
Jack Zimmerman: Yes, yes. And Assyria, the Assyrians and northern Iraqis. So, that’s what we’ve got today. And really, an answer to the first part of the question of what you were talking about. There was a time, I would venture to say, that I have seen more churches and more Christians take interest in Psalm 83 in the past 14 months than they have in the past 14 years.
Jonathan Bernis: Absolutely. October 7th made Israel front and center again.
Jack Zimmerman: Yes.
Jonathan Bernis: Completely. And ever since, sadly, we’ve been seeing a rise of waves of antisemitism which is so, so sad to see. But Jack, timing, timing. Are we in this?
Jack Zimmerman: Okay. So, are we seeing the fulfillment of Psalm 83 right now and where are we going from here? Here is the answer to the first question. I don’t think so. And one of the reasons I don’t think that we’re seeing the fulfillment of Psalm 83 right now has to do with the country of Jordan. If we were seeing this today from the past 14 months, then Jordan would be one of the parties that’s attacking Israel. Jordan is not doing that now. I don’t see that coming soon either, at least in the very near future, and let me explain why. We have a more than 30-year peace treaty, granted, it’s a cold peace treaty, but it’s a peace treaty and it’s still been standing between Jordan and Israel. I don’t see that treaty collapsing anytime soon. There were many, many reasons for that. But one, economically, Israel supplies Jordan with natural gas and with water. And so, it’s not in Jordan’s best interest, and I’m sure that king Abdullah would agree to say, «Okay, let’s now attack Israel». I think that if Jordan wanted to join in, they would have done so already during the past 15 months as Hezbollah has done, as the Houthis from Yemen have done, and obviously, as Iran has done as well. So, I don’t see this now. Do i, however, see this in the future? I do, because in the future…
Jonathan Bernis: That was my next question, obviously.
Jack Zimmerman: I knew exactly where you were going.
Jonathan Bernis: Telepathy this is… Yeah. Just keep going.
Jack Zimmerman: In the future, what do we have, in the future? Isaiah talks about cities of aroer being attacked, etcetera, etcetera. Where is aroer? In Jordan. So, eventually, eventually, this is going to happen in some way, shape, or form, or another.
Jonathan Bernis: How does that scenario happen? There’s been peace for so long. What will turn Jordan? Just, like, what do you think?
Jack Zimmerman: You know, I would have to pull something out of the sky. And it’s conjecture, it’s speculation. But the only thing that I could think of would be pressure from other Arab nations.
Jonathan Bernis: There’s no other explanation.
Jack Zimmerman: No.
Jonathan Bernis: Or something happens where Israel strikes against Jordan somehow. But it’s gonna happen.
Jack Zimmerman: Yes.
Jonathan Bernis: But it’s not now.
Jack Zimmerman: No.
Jonathan Bernis: It’s not now. This is fascinating, but we need to take a short break. Jack and I will be back in just a moment right after this.
Jonathan Bernis: Welcome back to our discussion of Psalm 83. Before we go on, I just wanna say thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, to our generous partners who make the work of sharing the good news with Yeshua and Jewish communities around the world possible. From all of Jewish Voice I just wanna say how grateful we are. And we’re your extended hands. We’re doing this together. We’re blessing the Jewish people with the greatest blessing they can receive, the good news of their Messiah. Now, Jack, diving back into Psalm 83, you said in the last segment that this is not yet the fulfillment of Psalm 83. October 7th was a huge shift. I mean, what happened, the most horrible event of the Jewish people since the holocaust. It’s just horrible. But it was not the fulfillment of Psalm 83, not yet. You said, not yet. But where does this fall, do you think, in the timetable of the last days? Because we’re getting close, the clock is clearly ticking.
Jack Zimmerman: We are. And indeed, if we wanna get technical about it, if we look at Hebrews 1, the first two verses, the writer of Hebrews, we don’t know who it is. Some people think it’s Paul, we’re not sure. The author of Hebrews doesn’t identify themselves. They refer to those times as these last days. So, the question is, of course, where are we on that timeline? Well, you know, immediately after the events of October 7, 2023 occurred, there was so many people, well meaning folks, passionate folks about end time prophecy, who were saying, «Oh my gosh. This is it. This is the Ezekiel war, the war of Gog and Magog». Time out. You’ve got to look at what the prophecies say about that. There’s gotta be something that comes before the war of Gog and Magog, before the Ezekiel war. Because the Ezekiel war occurs when people are living in peace and safety and there’s an attack from the far north. So, here is where we are. I believe that what we’re looking at is, on this timeline, the next significant event to occur will be Psalm 83, particularly verses 5 through 9.
Jonathan Bernis: So, we actually have a timeline that we’re gonna put up now. So, let’s put that up now.
Jack Zimmerman: You bet.
Jonathan Bernis: And take us through this. You can see this now. Take us through this.
Jack Zimmerman: So, basically, where we are, and we are getting close to the end of the end.
Jonathan Bernis: Gosh, we’re close to Psalm 83.
Jack Zimmerman: We are, we are. And that is the next event that I see coming. And then following Psalm 83, what do we have? We have all of these countries coming against Israel. Obviously, God eliminates all of them or possibly through the Abraham accords has them turn away from their wickedness and becomes friends with Israel, which we saw president trump do in his first term.
Jonathan Bernis: Which he’ll do again.
Jack Zimmerman: I believe he will. So, there’ll be a continuation of that. But then, what do you have after that? Then you have everybody in Israel saying, «Wow, our enemies are gone. They’ve either been eliminated, or they are with us. We’re living in a time of peace and safety». Boom. Ezekiel war follows.
Jonathan Bernis: Wow.
Jack Zimmerman: Yeah.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, well, many are so happy to have trump back in because we want the Abraham accords, we want peace.
Jack Zimmerman: Yes.
Jonathan Bernis: But that is a prelude, right? To war.
Jack Zimmerman: It is.
Jonathan Bernis: You have to, I mean, if you’re open minded and reading the scriptures, you can’t avoid it.
Jack Zimmerman: Right. Which begs the following question being that, is the Ezekiel war a prelude to something else? And it goes back to what you were saying. Is it pre, mid, or post? And I’m right there with you. I’m pan, it’s all gonna pan out anyway. Besides, if I were, or you were, or any of us were to take one particular position, we’d have the other two positions coming down on us. And so, I believe the important thing is that in this listing and this series of events, let’s look forward to it and let’s understand that this is all about God’s end time prophetic plan of salvation. And therefore, after these events occur, let’s bring as many people with us, a bountiful harvest, to come so that they may receive Yeshua when he comes back.
Jonathan Bernis: Well, that’s our response, really. Our response is the gospel. Our response is proclamation. Just simply put, God’s peace plan for the Middle East and the world is the Prince of Peace.
Jack Zimmerman: Yes.
Jonathan Bernis: And it’s amazing when I go to Israel and I see Israelis and Palestinians worshiping together, hugging each other, really friends, really caring about each other, because they’ve both been born from above…
Jack Zimmerman: Amen.
Jonathan Bernis: And they become truly brothers and sisters in Messiah, in Christ.
Jack Zimmerman: And isn’t it great that when you look, for example, in Isaiah that it talks about one day in Egypt, for example, there will be five cities in Egypt setting up altars to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and speaking Hebrew.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah. Amazing, amazing. Let me go back to… I wanna go back to the terminal point of Psalm 83. It hasn’t happened yet. October 7th. Some say it was. October 7th was the direct fulfillment or the beginning of the fulfillment of Psalm 83. You’re saying not yet.
Jack Zimmerman: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: What’s the one event we should look for that would identity this is indeed Psalm 83?
Jack Zimmerman: Sure. I think the one event that we should look at is, let’s take a look at these nations who are coming against Israel and is Egypt part of it? I think Egypt is the key here, because again, I’m not fully in agreement that Egypt is one of the nations participating in Psalm 83. But if Egypt were to come into this, then I think that changes the equation.
Jonathan Bernis: That is extremely serious because there’s been peace since Sadat boldly came to Israel. And sometimes it’s been warm, sometimes it’s been cold, but it’s been peaceful.
Jack Zimmerman: That’s right.
Jonathan Bernis: And there was a time when a lot of Israelis were going to Egypt, that’s since ended. But if Egypt turns, that’s the key. What about Jordan, though? Jordan is a real concern also.
Jack Zimmerman: Sure. And again, will the peace agreement that Jordan and Israel have hold up? It’s been 30 plus years, and will it continue to hold up in the future?
Jonathan Bernis: So, really, those two nations, Jordan and Egypt, if they turn on Israel, we are in Psalm 83.
Jack Zimmerman: Exactly.
Jonathan Bernis: And I pray it doesn’t happen anytime soon.
Jack Zimmerman: Yes.
Jonathan Bernis: But we need to keep watching and we need to be aware of the season. We need to be on top of this spiritually. And our job is to pray and proclaim. Just talk about birth pangs. This is a really big one that Jesus gives us Revelation to. The last days are connected with birth pains. A lot’s going on that’s been repeating through history, but he says this is like birth pains concerning the last days in Matthew 24.
Jack Zimmerman: You bet, and this is right out of the Olivet discourse where he talks about wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilences, etcetera, etcetera. He says, «But these are only the beginnings of birth pains». The best way that I can allude to birth pains actually, if you wanna go back to the beginning, is Genesis 37, when Joseph is out in the fields with his brothers and he basically says, «Hey, listen. Guys, I had this dream. You’re gonna love it. Sheaves of grain,» representing you, of course, «And they were all bowing down to me. What do you think»? And the basically said…
Jonathan Bernis: They love that.
Jack Zimmerman: «Yeah, oh yeah. Thanks a lot. You know. No, we don’t wanna hear you». He said, «Wait a minute. I got a better one. The sun, the moon, and the stars,» by the way eleven, «Cause Joseph has eleven brothers, 'were bowing down to me too. Aren’t you really excited about that'? And they were like, 'no, Joseph, you’re an idiot. Stop talking'». And what we have is that takes us right to the fulfillment of this idea of birth pains in Revelation 12.
Jonathan Bernis: Okay, unpack that for us because I’m trying to make the connection with Joseph’s Revelation.
Jack Zimmerman: You bet.
Jonathan Bernis: The brothers are really angry and we know the stories. Shipped off, thrown in a pit, yeah. But he’s gonna redeem his brothers. It’s a picture of Yeshua, by the way. It’s amazing.
Jack Zimmerman: It is. And Joseph’s Revelation, I guess, pun intended here, is revealed to us in the Book of Revelation, Revelation 12:1-2. Because we’ve got the sun, the moon, and the stars, look at what the verse says. «A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, on her head a crown of twelve stars. She’s pregnant,» doing what? «She’s crying out in birth pains, in agony to give birth». So, you’ve got the reference back there to Genesis 37. Essentially what you’ve got is, «Okay, this is Rachel. This is Jacob. These are the twelve tribes. This is the birth of a child who will represent Israel, that, of course, is Yeshua». What happens after that? Revelation 12:5-6, «She gives birth to a son, male child, rules the nations with an iron rod». Fulfillment of the Psalms, «And her child was snatched away to God on the throne. Woman flees into the wilderness. She has a place prepared by God, so they might take care of her 1,260 days». Here’s Petra. But what happens after that? The dragon comes, not only for the mother, but also for the child. He’s unsuccessful. And then, and then what do we have? The Battle of Armageddon, and the dragon, the false beast, the false prophet destroyed.
Jonathan Bernis: Wow, you mentioned Petra. I don’t know if people understand that, but it’s an enclave in…
Jack Zimmerman: In Jordan.
Jonathan Bernis: Which I’ve been to several times.
Jack Zimmerman: Yeah.
Jonathan Bernis: It’s really amazing, isn’t it? It’s a nabatean stronghold, right? Some believe there’s food already stored there, and Israelis will flee there for safety.
Jack Zimmerman: Yes, and you know what’s just as amazing? Think of this because this gets back to the Psalm 83 timeline. Psalm 83, among the parties who are threatening Israel is Jordan. And isn’t it more than just a coincidence? It’s actually almost a paradox, that in the end so many of our people will flee to Jordan, the nation that once threaten to attack us in Psalm 83.
Jonathan Bernis: Wow, it’s really overwhelming, but it’s in the scriptures.
Jack Zimmerman: It’s right there.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, it’s clear. So, wars… Seems to be peace. So, do you think there’ll be a renewed peace, that it gets better before it gets worse? Do you see that happening?
Jack Zimmerman: You know, it’s a great question. I hesitate on saying that things are going to get better only because the scriptures tell us. And what does Paul tell Timothy? He says, «Look, in the last days, people will be falling away from the faith. There’ll be lovers of money. There’ll be lovers of themselves, etcetera, etcetera. They will not endorse sound doctrine. Neighbor will go against neighbor». So, there will be conflict. If that’s what we have that’s coming up, I don’t see many times of peace in the future because the scriptures say otherwise.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, yeah. We just need to be ready. And keep in mind, we are citizens of the Kingdom of God. Oh, what do we do as the things get worst, and the world gets shaken? We stand firm in our faith. Jack, it’s so great to explore this. You at home can see that Israel is right in the middle of leading up to the last days or the center point, even in the Psalms. Jewish Voice stands with Israel to share the gospel with everyone in the land, Jew and Arab alike, because Jesus, Yeshua, is the Messiah and Savior for all. I wanna ask you to partner with us today and help us to reach out in Israel both to Jew and Arab alike. Please listen and prayerfully consider to give. Jack and I will be back to pray for you and your family next.
Jonathan Bernis: We wanna just take a few minutes as we do in every program to pray for your needs. And we get so many, I know that some of you are going through some real challenges. We get lots of letters, emails. I know that some are still struggling since COVID. 2019, 2020 changed everything. And some of you are going through a sense of, even, hopelessness, but certainly, rejection, separation, discouragement. We understand that and we know that God is a loving God who sees and cares even before you have need. Also, I wanna ask those of you that have never made that step to invite Yeshua, Jesus, to come into your heart, to live for him, today is the day of your salvation. He’s standing at the door. «Yeshua, Jesus is standing at the door of your heart,» the scripture says, «And he’s knocking at your door to let him in». He’ll transform your life. We wanna give you that opportunity. Don’t wait till tomorrow. Jack, there’s so many people hurting, so many needs. I’m gonna ask you to pray. «Where two or three are gathered together in his name, he’s in the midst of us».
Jack Zimmerman: Amen. I would be delighted to. Avinu Malkeinu, our father, our king, Lord, the past several years had filled many not just with concern, but also with fear particularly over the past 14 months. And, Lord, in the Olivet discourse one of the things that you remind us of is we see the beginning of these birth pains, is you tell us, «But do not be alarmed for these things must happen». And so, Lord, my prayer for each and every one is that we move in faith and not by fear.
Jonathan Bernis: Yes.
Jack Zimmerman: That we are not alarmed and that we put all of our faith, and our strength, and confidence, Lord God, in you, knowing that we can trust and depend upon you for all things and knowing that the end of the book has a wonderful, wonderful conclusion. In Yeshua’s name.
Jonathan Bernis: In Yeshua’s name. And thank you, Lord, that it ends well. That even though the earth has been shaken, we are in you, and we are safe and confident. I wanna you to go deeper and find meaningful ways to support and bless Israel and the global Jewish community by visiting our website, jewishvoice.tv. You’ll discover resources to grow in your faith and opportunities to make a positive impact to change lives, to transform lives. And remember, the greatest news you can give any Jewish person or anyone for that matter is the good news of the Messiah, of our Savior, Yeshua, Jesus. As we close the program today, I wanna remind you to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, Psalm 122:6. And it says, «For those that pray for Jerusalem, may they prosper who love thee». So, prosper, prosper, prosper by praying for Israel and the Jewish people. Until next time. This is Jonathan Bernis along with Jack Zimmerman saying shalom and God bless you.