Sid Roth - Jesus Is In The Old Testament
Sid Roth: My guest discovered modern rabbis have hidden what the ancient rabbis knew about Jesus. Next on this edition of It's Supernatural!
Sid Roth: Hello. I'm Sid Roth, your investigative reporter. What happens when a woman that is raised in a very, very traditional Jewish family is challenged about Jesus? What does she do? Does she become an ostrich? Does she just cover up her eyes and her ears, and her mouth, and say, I don't want to know nothing? Or does she think for herself? My guest Sharon Allen, you were raised in New York. Tell me about your early Jewish upbringing.
Sharon Allen: Well I was raised in an observant Jewish home, an orthodox Jewish home. We kept all the rules and regulations, the biblical commandments and the rabbinical commandments. And only we didn't think of them as rules and regulations. We thought of them as our way of showing our love and devotion to God. And so we kept a kosher home, we didn't work on the Sabbath on Saturdays, we walked to the synagogue on Saturday morning. We didn't drive in a car because that's not allowed. We went to Yeshiva. We observed all the commandments. And this we did out of love for our heritage.
Sid Roth: Had you just, growing up out of curiosity, heard anything about Jesus?
Sharon Allen: Well I guess when you grow up in America you just naturally hear about Jesus. But I never took it seriously. I always thought it was for other people. To me, it was Roman mythology. It was like Greek mythology. It was a forbidden thing. It wasn't anything that I dealt with, never even thought about really.
Sid Roth: So you got married. You had a daughter.
Sharon Allen: Yes.
Sid Roth: And did you marry a Jewish man?
Sharon Allen: Yes. My first marriage was to a man from a similar background and we had a beautiful daughter. I have a wonderful daughter, Alisa. Her Hebrew name is Chava Leah. And but we were divorced when Alisa was very young. And Alisa and I moved to California when she was six years old, and we moved to the Jewish area, the orthodox Jewish area of Los Angeles, the Fairfax district.
Sid Roth: And that was about the time there was a real estate boom.
Sharon Allen: Yes.
Sid Roth: And you got into real estate. You met your boss Ron Allen.
Sharon Allen: Yes.
Sid Roth: And very shortly, what happened?
Sharon Allen: Well we became very, very good friends and he knew about my Jewish background. He didn't really have any strong religious background. He told me he was raised Protestant and but he loved our Jewish ways. And oh, my mom and dad just loved him. They just really took to him and he took to them. And in fact, my mom would always say he's so hamesha, which means he's so comfortable to be with. And we did get married and we had a Jewish home, and we were very involved in the Jewish community in Irvine. In fact, we helped build the Chabad Jewish Center in Irvine.
Sid Roth: Now what is Chabad?
Sharon Allen: Chabad is orthodox Judaism, Lubavitcher. And at the time the Rebbe Menachem Schneerson was the leader of the organization and they helped to, they want to provide every Jewish community with an orthodox synagogue, with an orthodox Chabad rabbi.
Sid Roth: But then she asked her husband, Ron, you're so Jewish. Isn't it time that you convert, and of course, he said yes. But what were the requirements, Sharon?
Sharon Allen: Well there are basically three ceremonies that need to be done for an orthodox conversion. The first one is the person who wishes to convert to Judaism was if they're a man they have to be circumcised. And in the case of my husband who was circumcised already as a baby, all the rabbis do is they just draw a bit of blood. And the second ceremony is mikvah. You need to be in a mikvah water immersion and that is for purification and identification with the Jewish people. The third ceremony, which they do in an orthodox Jewish ceremony is the person who wishes to be converted must appear before a beth din, a council of rabbis, a rabbinical court, and they must renounce whatever they believed in before. So in a matter of fact voice, I said to my husband, "Well I guess you'll just renounce Jesus". And he thought a moment, and he said, "I don't think I can do that". And I said, "What! What do you mean you can't renounce Jesus. I mean, it's Roman mythology. It's Greek mythology. It's fantasy, virgin birth. I mean, how can you believe in anything like this"? Well and what made it so amazing is that my husband, when all the years we were together he never mentioned Jesus, never mentioned church. You know, he really didn't even talk about anything about Christianity. Business was his religion. He was a successful businessman. And I said to him, "You're such a successful businessman, how can you believe in something like this"? And well we didn't have a very good morning, I can tell you.
Sid Roth: I'm sure. So what did you do about this? This is a big challenge, though, to you.
Sharon Allen: Well there was one thing that I knew that was that everything that God wanted us to know about his Jewish Messiah would be in our Jewish Bible so that we Jews would be able to recognize him when he would come. And so I figured I'd just look into my Jewish Bible. And so I went downstairs to the family room where I had my Jewish Bible. Every Jewish home has their fancy Jewish Bible in Hebrew and in English. I took the Bible off the shelf and I decided, well I'll just start to read at page one.
Sid Roth: But wait a second, you've been going to the synagogue your whole life.
Sharon Allen: Absolutely.
Sid Roth: Hadn't you read the whole Tanach, Jewish Scriptures?
Sharon Allen: You know what? When we go to synagogue we hear a Torah portion and then we hear a Haftarah portion, a portion from the prophets. But we don't actually sit down and read every single word that's in the Bible. And completely different picture emerges when one sits and begins to study from page one, and that's what I decided to do. I didn't think it would take me too long. I figured well pretty soon I'll find the exact scripture that would prove to my husband that this Jesus could never have been the fulfillment of the Jewish Bible. And so that's what I started to do. I went, I opened up my Bible, started at page one. My daughter went to school, my husband went off to work and there I was sitting.
Sid Roth: So this was your full time job.
Sharon Allen: Oh absolutely. They came home hours later, my husband from work, my daughter from school and there I was still reading page after page, after page. The next morning, my daughter went to school, my husband went off to work and there I was sitting page after page. Hours later, they came home from work and school. There I was still reading. This went on for weeks.
Sid Roth: But wait, it was only going to take a couple of days.
Sharon Allen: That's all I thought.
Sid Roth: For weeks, for months. We're going to be back in a moment and find out what Sharon Allen, who had never, ever read the New Testament, no Christian told her anything about Jesus, she was going to get rid of this in 30 seconds, goes month after month, after month, starts thinking for herself, reading the Jewish Scriptures for herself. Find out what she came to the conclusion of. We'll be right back after this.
Sid Roth: Hello. Sid Roth your investigative reporter and I'm here with Sharon Allen. Sharon comes from a very religious background. She and her husband helped build the synagogue, the religious center of the Chabad movement in Irvine, California. And she came into a crisis. Her husband, who was raised Christian, but his God really was money, he wasn't into church or reading the Bible, or anything like that, ready to convert to Judaism, and he says, "I can't deny Jesus". She says, "That's Roman mythology. I'm going to prove you're wrong. I'm going to read my own Jewish Scriptures and prove to you that there is nothing to this. It's untrue. Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah. It will take a few minutes". She reads, for the first time. She was used to the prayer book and the various portions read in the synagogue, but not the, she never even, this great religious background, she's never read the scriptures for herself. So she starts at Genesis and she starts reading and reading, and reading, and how long did your search take?
Sharon Allen: Well it took almost a year completely because when I finished reading the Bible I did see that man, Jesus, in the Bible. There are specific prophecies where he would be born, how he would live his life, the things he would accomplish, things he would do, even the fact that he would die. I was amazed at the things that I read. But there was just no way that I was going to believe in this Jesus, so I figured I must have missed something.
Sid Roth: Okay.
Sharon Allen: And the rabbis tell us, you can't read the Jewish Bible without the commentaries.
Sid Roth: Of course.
Sharon Allen: So I bought the ArtScroll Tanach Series by Mesorah Publications, I bought the Rashi Commentaries, the Soncino Commentaries and I just kept reading and reading, and reading. And yet even in the commentaries, it speaks of prophecies, speaks of the Messiah. And so I thought, okay, I have to study further. I bought the Talmud. I read the Mishnah Torah by Maimonides and I just kept reading and reading. I went to the Jewish bookstores and I bought anti-missionary books, books with such title as, "You Take Jesus, I'll Take God", and I just kept reading and reading, and reading. And I still came back to the same thing, this Jesus seems to be fulfilling what the ancient Jewish rabbis always suspected.
Sid Roth: So should you have gone to your rabbi, to other rabbis, specialists?
Sharon Allen: Yes, absolutely, and I did. I called up my rabbi and I said, "Rabbi, can you please help me". I explained to him all my books. He came to my home with his wife. I showed him my library, because by this time I had quite a library, and I even shared with him that all the ancient Jewish rabbis, they even recognized that there were two different specific pictures of the Messiah in the Jewish Bible. They even had names for them.
Sid Roth: What were the two pictures that you saw?
Sharon Allen: Well they even had names for them, Mashiach ben Yosef, Messiah, son of Joseph, who would come as a suffering servant and Mashiach ben David, Messiah son of David, who would come to the conquering hero king.
Sid Roth: Now we always hear about there will be peace on earth when the Messiah comes.
Sharon Allen: Yes.
Sid Roth: But there are two pictures of the Messiah.
Sharon Allen: Yes. And the rabbis recognize them. They did. I read the Targumim, which are the Aramaic translations of the Bible.
Sid Roth: But I raised in a traditional synagogue and I never heard a rabbi talk about Messiah ben Josef.
Sharon Allen: No, and I didn't either. And so my rabbi had suggested I speak with a deprogrammer, a professional deprogrammer.
Sid Roth: What is a deprogrammer?
Sharon Allen: Well he is a rabbi that is specifically knowledgeable in trying to get people who are thinking about Jesus to not think about Jesus.
Sid Roth: Okay.
Sharon Allen: And they re-interpret what the scriptures say, and they use whatever means they have in having a person feel like they shouldn't be believing in Jesus even if the scriptures are that specific.
Sid Roth: But I don't understand this. You wanted them to prove that Jesus wasn't the Messiah.
Sharon Allen: Yes, absolutely.
Sid Roth: So but they were not saying what the ancient rabbis said?
Sharon Allen: Absolutely. They came from a completely modern approach. For example, Isaiah 53, all the ancient rabbis recognize that Isaiah 53 was speaking about the Messiah and yet now, the modern rabbis say it's speaking of the State of Israel. And it was impossible, because when you read the specific scriptures it is very particular and it specifically speaks of one man who will take on the sins of the Jewish people.
Sid Roth: Not only that, it says, "This one will be sinless".
Sharon Allen: Yes.
Sid Roth: And all the prophets talk about the sins of Israel. So how could they even justify something like that?
Sharon Allen: I don't know except that they are so desperate to keep us from believing in Jesus.
Sid Roth: Tell me about some of your discussions with these anti-missionaries or the people against people that believe Jesus is the Messiah.
Sharon Allen: Well I shared with them about what, in the Bible is named the Malach HaShem. In English it speaks of the angel of the Lord and how he keeps appearing in the Jewish Bible to the patriarchs, to all of the different people that we read about. And each time he appears they recognize him as being God, they fall on their face, they fear for their lives. He comforts them, he accepts sacrifice from them, all these things that a mere created being could never do.
Sid Roth: Of course.
Sharon Allen: And so, and all through the Bible he appears. And the rabbis say, oh it's just a different angel each time. But it is not true because when you read it in Hebrew, it is very specific that this is the same particular messenger of God that speaks as God, accomplishes things as God and they recognize him as being God so much so that they fear for their life.
Sid Roth: Now who do you think that messenger of God is?
Sharon Allen: It is definitely the Messiah, definitely.
Sid Roth: So what did these rabbis say when you would say that to them, wanting them to convince you differently? You're on their side.
Sharon Allen: You know, we had to agree to disagree because we could only go just so far. In fact, after I spoke with the deprogrammer, Rabbi Bentzion Kravitz, he wanted me to speak to Gerald Sigal, who wrote another anti-missionary book called the "Jewish Response to the Christian Missionary".
Sid Roth: Hold that thought. We're going to be right back after this and find out what this real expert anti-missionary deprogrammer had to say. Be right back.
Sid Roth: Hello. Sid Roth your investigative reporter and I'll be right back with Sharon. But I'd like to find out who our guest is next week. Janie in the control room, who's on next week?
Janie:Sid, you'll be interviewing Sharon again and she has, she's been talking about Bible prophecies and the amazing thing is these prophecies were written hundreds, like some 700 years before Jesus came, proving that Jesus is the Messiah. But she also found in the Book of Genesis where it says the names like Adam to Noah that those names, when you translate them into English, it has a hidden sentence. So it's very exciting discoveries that she's found.
Sid Roth: Thank you, Janie. Do you realize what she just said? That there is a hidden message in the first ten names that God has in the scriptures when the Hebrew is translated into English. And next week we're going to find out that that sentence is proof that Jesus is the Messiah. Now Sharon, we get you with this really professional anti-missionary.
Sharon Allen: Yes.
Sid Roth: And how did that work out?
Sharon Allen: Well then I spoke with Gerald Sigal who is in Brooklyn, New York, and he's a school teacher there, and he wrote this book, "The Jewish Response to the Christian Missionary". And so they devised a plan, after I read his book, they devised a plan that he would call me and we would talk on the telephone. So on Monday nights we would talk on the phone and he would ask me questions. And but what I saw was that he was also coming from very modern approach. After a couple of weeks, he called my rabbi and he said, "I don't think I can help her. She's too far gone".
Sid Roth: So after a year I guess you just came to that conclusion and said that you believe Jesus is the Messiah?
Sharon Allen: No. I was still looking for help.
Sid Roth: Why? Why didn't you?
Sharon Allen: There was just no way. I mean, the way that I was raised, the way that I believed, there was just no way that I could believe that Jesus, it just couldn't be for me. And I just had to know for sure, just there must be an answer out there somewhere.
Sid Roth: But there was. There was this meeting, this man from Canada.
Sharon Allen: Yes. Yes. The very next meeting my rabbi said that Rabbi Emanuel, who is an internationally known deprogrammer was going to be speaking at my daughter's Yeshiva. And so my husband and I, and my daughter, we were very comfortable about going. We went that evening to hear the rabbi speak and we sat up in front because this is my daughter's Yeshiva, and we were very comfortable. We knew everyone.
Sid Roth: Yeshiva is a Jewish school.
Sharon Allen: Yes. Yes, Hebrew Academy. And so we sat up front and the rabbi spoke. It was used as Jewish outreach to the community, and he spoke on Jewish life and Jewish tradition, and the importance of having a Jewish home. And then when he, I had, Ron and Alisa, and I had decided that we would go and hear the rabbi speak, and that after the meeting was completely over and everyone was leaving then I would quietly go up to the rabbi, explain to him what had happened and then hope that he would be able to help me.
Sid Roth: You're still trying to be convinced that that man Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah.
Sharon Allen: Oh yes, yes. And so that evening went and we heard him speak. And when he finished speaking he opened it up for discussion. And then the first person raises their hand and says, you know, "Rabbi, we're having difficulty with the missionaries in the area". And the rabbi said, "You don't have to worry. If you have a Jewish home, don't worry about the missionary". Now the second person and raises their hand and says, you know, "Rabbi, the missionaries are talking to our children and they're having Bible studies and we don't know what to do". And the rabbi said, "Look, you have a Jewish home. You send your children to Hebrew Academy, a school like this," because after all, this was like a Jewish outreach to the community, "and you don't have to worry these missionaries". Now the third person raises their hand and says, "Rabbi, you really don't understand. These missionaries are giving our children scriptures. They're bringing these scriptures home and we don't know how to explain them". And at this point, the rabbi, he was standing on a platform and he had a podium in front of him, and he grabbed the sides of the podium, and he sort of loomed out over to the audience, and in a big looming voice he said, "Never ever under any circumstances does any knowledgeable Jew ever turn to that man". You know, because Jewish people don't say the name Jesus, "that man" instead of Jesus. At which point I thought he was talking to me and I grabbed Alisa's hand and I said, "Alisa, do you think I should say something"? And she said, "Yes, mommy". And I grabbed Ron's hand and I said, "Do you think I should say something"? And he said, yes. And so I raised my hand and I said, "Rabbi, what do you tell someone like me, I am a Jewish woman, I know my Yiddishkeit, I have a Jewish home, I raised my daughter Jewish, she's here at Hebrew Academy and yet when I read the Jewish Bible I see that man". Well from that moment on until the end of the evening, which is maybe until 12 midnight he and I were in direct discussion. And we talked about Jewish traditions, Jewish home life, the Bible, scriptures. And once again, I was seeing a rabbi coming from a very modern approach. Here I'm coming from all these books in a very traditional approach and he's coming from a very modern approach.
Sid Roth: Before there was, in other words, what you're saying to me is, before there was prejudice involved the ancient rabbis, before they even knew who the Messiah was when they just read the scriptures for what they said, they came to the conclusion it was talking about a Messiah that describes that man. But the modern rabbis refuse to accept what the ancient rabbis saw because there is prejudice. So then what happened?
Sharon Allen: Well the rabbi was, in fact, we had said to the rabbi, "Please let someone else talk and ask a question". But the audience kept saying, "No, no, no, we want to hear what you have to say". And so now it was maybe towards 12 midnight and the rabbi was very anxious to bring the meeting to a close. And so from the podium he said in a very loud, ugly voice, he said, "Well that man committed blasphemy from the cross". And I was in shock. I couldn't understand what's he talking about? What do you mean blasphemy? He said, "Oh yes. When he was on the cross he committed blasphemy". I said, "What are you talking about"? He said, "Yes, when he said "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me,'" and he used a very ugly voice. So I said to the rabbi, "But Rabbi, he could have said it crying, he could have said it pleading, he could have said it lamenting. How do we know he, what do you mean"? He said, "Oh no". He said, "Yes, that man committed blasphemy from the cross". In the rabbi's excitement and anger, I suppose, and wanting to bring the meeting to a close, he himself forgot that those very same words were uttered by our own beloved King David in Psalm 22, and what Jew would dare to say that our beloved King David committed blasphemy? And of course, when you read Psalm 22, those are the very same words, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"? But it goes on to say how God would protect him and take care of him, and bring him close to himself again. And so when I heard what the rabbi had said and that he had just said anything that would come to his mind just to close the issue, I realized something is terribly wrong here. And so I went home that evening and I said to my daughter and to my husband, "I have no more doubts. I have no more fears. This Jesus, Yeshua Ha'Mashiach, Jesus the Messiah is my Jewish Messiah".
Sid Roth: How long ago was that?
Sharon Allen: Eighteen years ago.
Sid Roth: How Jewish do you feel today?
Sharon Allen: Oh as Jewish as ever, more Jewish because I'm believing in the Jewish Messiah, the Jewish Messiah that's in the Jewish Bible.
Sid Roth: Did you hear that? More Jewish today because what is a Jew? The word "Jew" comes from the Hebrew word Yehuda, which means a praiser of God. How can you praise God if you don't know God? Why have we Jewish people not heard from a prophet in over 2000 years? Could it be we missed THE prophet, THE Messiah, that man, Hebrew for Jesus, Yeshua Ha'Mashiach, Jesus the Messiah. Do you want to know the truth? At this moment it's not an accident that I'm speaking to you. It's because God loves you and God has a purpose for your life. If you will tell God you have committed many sins and you are sorry, and you believe that Jesus the Jewish Messiah died for your sins and ask the Messiah, Yeshua, Jesus to come inside of you and be Lord of your life, in your own words, God will understand, you will come to know God the Father, God who loves you, God who has a destiny for your life, God who wants to give you some shalom, some peace, God who sent his son Yeshua to die for you. He loves you very much. You are special to him. He really does. He loves you.