Sid Roth - You Have to Hear What God Said to This Israeli Assassin
Sid Roth: Hello. I'm Sid Roth your host on it's supernatural. My guest was a professional assassin. At a young age, Moshe, you were a Nazi hunter. Why would you hunt Nazis?
Moshe Laurie: Well, when I was like nine years old, I realized, I asked my mom, how come we don't, why don't I have any grandfather, why don't I have a grandma, why don't have any family? And we lost them all in Europe to the Nazis and I resented that an awful lot. And I just said, this was never going to happen again.
Sid Roth: Listen. To resent that and to be involved in identifying and terminating Nazis, that's two different things. You must have had, you had something, a little more rage inside than the normal person.
Moshe Laurie: Justice.
Sid Roth: Justice.
Moshe Laurie: They were not going to get away with it. These were people, they thought were beyond the reach on the law. These were the ones, these were not the ones who were captured and brought to justice. These were the ones who thought they could live out their lives in peace after killing an entire people, and that wasn't going to happen.
Sid Roth: I know you did not, but would you have killed a Nazi if you had the opportunity.
Moshe Laurie: Yes. Yes, without a doubt because I believed that I was anointed, I was being led to do this sort of thing, that God had sent me as a warrior of David from the Torah to go and do this thing for my people.
Sid Roth: Okay. Then you evolve to be a Mossad officer and you trained assassins. Did this bother you at all? I mean, you would train people to kill people.
Moshe Laurie: It was amazing because I had this gift. You know, it wasn't a violent thing. It wasn't that I wanted to run around and hurt people. This was a Torah thing. This was the eye for an eye. These were the enemies of Israel that had to be destroyed until they would leave us alone. It was more of a peaceful thing. They had to be taken care of so that our children didn't have to live in fear.
Sid Roth: What, just out of curiosity, what type of ethics did you follow as a Mossad officer?
Moshe Laurie: You know, it's interesting, not even in the Mossad because there's very little to talk about. But the actual Israeli military, the idea of the Israeli defense forces, within their doctrinal statement of their army regulations state that life is sacred, and only to be taken when and if necessary. This is why the ethics are carried out. It's not a light thing. As a matter of fact, when we began training people for the anti-terrorist training, which was beyond the assassination, it was a very difficult thing to find qualified people that could do that.
Sid Roth: For instance, you told me at one raid, because of the ethics, lives were lost.
Moshe Laurie: Well 1972, I believe the year was, when the Japanese attacked the airport, at one point for just a moment.
Sid Roth: This was the airport in Tel Aviv.
Moshe Laurie: It was then called Lud. It's Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv.
Sid Roth: Tel Aviv.
Moshe Laurie: And at one point when the Japanese were taking the weapons out of their suitcases on the suitcase carrier thing there, a border patrolman saw them and was in a position to actually take all of them out at the one moment. But there was a family standing between them and he was incapable of firing. And by the time he tried to get into position, shooting started, almost a hundred people were wounded, 24 were killed. One of them was the brother of the president of Israel, who was a world-renowned eminent nuclear physicist, not that his life was any more precious than anybody else's. But God forbid, he had to take those three lives. He could have saved 24 plus the hundred and all the others. This is a very difficult thing for a person who is brought up on the ethical principle of the value of life. And we had to find a training program that would allow a thinking person to shoot through a good guy.
Sid Roth: Now I understand you were a pretty big guy. You weighed close to 400 pounds.
Moshe Laurie: After my training. But yes, when I was in training, I weighed like 265.
Sid Roth: Okay. A lot of stress.
Moshe Laurie: A lot of stress. A lot of, I mean, it's a stressful job because, you know, when you're hunting them they're not exactly sitting around, they're hunting you back. So life gets really stressful. The point is that you have to be, I had a wife and two children in Israel, and every morning when we said good-bye it was literally good-bye, I never knew if I was coming back. She made, a couple of times she got a phone call and I came back three months later, and there was always the issue that I may never come back.
Sid Roth: Now you came from a real religious background. You were Orthodox, Hasidim, you wore the little curls. Did anyone ever tell you about Christianity?
Moshe Laurie: Well they tried. They tried. They couldn't when I was little because I was brought up in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, which is a very Jewish, very orthodox.
Sid Roth: Very religious.
Moshe Laurie: And it really wasn't, we all knew we had catholics, we had Jews and we kind of lived with each other. There wasn't this big witnessing thing. You couldn't witness to me. You tried to witness to me and I, at first, I would just say to you, listen, I'm Jewish, I've got enough problems, leave me alone. And then of course if you were a good witnessor and you said it again, I spit on you.
Sid Roth: Seriously?
Moshe Laurie: Seriously.
Sid Roth: What if I said it again after you spit on me?
Moshe Laurie: It never happened. I never got violent. But I mean, listen, when I stand up, I'm 6-foot-3, and if I just spit on you, would you want to talk to me about anything?
Sid Roth: I understand. But guess what happened? He heard an audible voice that revolutionized his life and he is a new type of military warrior. Right back after this.
Sid Roth: Hello. I'm Sid Roth. My guest, Moshe Laurie, former Mossad officer. Moshe Laurie, the pressure was really heavy and he came to America, I guess, for a little rest and relaxation, and you tried to make a little money on the side. Tell me what you were doing with your camera.
Moshe Laurie: Well what I would do is I would get to the station. I had a car parked and I had video equipment. I didn't really need the money, but then you wanted to make a little extra. What I did is I found, while in my travels, I found a little league, what they called a pop warner little football league.
Sid Roth: I'm familiar with that.
Moshe Laurie: And I offered to videotape it. And of course, they paid me for it and I videotaped nine-year-olds in full equipment. Hysterical. Then they were going to have an awards dinner and they asked if I would tape it, because the mommies and the coaches, you know, the little guys with the mommies. And then I said, okay. But then I found out to my surprise that this football league was sponsored by the largest catholic church in Las Cruces, New Mexico. That's where I was.
Sid Roth: So money is money.
Moshe Laurie: Listen, I was taught as a child that the devil lived in them churches.
Sid Roth: Just like...
Moshe Laurie: Absolutely. The rabbis don't go there. These are deceived people. The devil uses them to take Yeshua, who is really a good prophet and they made him into this Messiah, and it's causing us all these problems. Don't go there. And I found out from catholic friends of mine that the nuns would say the same thing to them about us. But I was really hesitant about it and it was a large church. But I had already been paid, Sid. I already had the money in my pocket and I wasn't going to give it back. So I went to talk to the priest and I said to the priest, "Listen, I'm coming to do this filming. But if you start any prayers before I get to film, the mommies aren't going to get their tape because I'm leaving". I was nice about it and then we did that. I didn't know also that it wasn't only the largest catholic church in town, it also had a kindergarten through 12th grade school. It was a mandatory assembly. I walk into this place early and it was like 9:00 in the morning, and it was 4000-plus people sitting there. I almost died. Here I am...
Sid Roth: Wait a second. You're a professional assassin, a Mossad officer, and you just can't take some catholics and Christians?
Moshe Laurie: I wasn't worried about the Christians. I was armed. I was worried about the devil.
Sid Roth: What do you mean, you were armed?
Moshe Laurie: I always carried a weapon. Until I left Israel because things we were going to talk about, I was always armed. There was always a weapon on me, around me, near me because I never knew.
Sid Roth: But you were afraid of...
Moshe Laurie: The devil.
Sid Roth: Why?
Moshe Laurie: Because the devil lived there. I wasn't supposed to go where he was.
Sid Roth: A-ha. And maybe you had a little fear that God wasn't happy with this?
Moshe Laurie: I didn't really know. This was just an instinctive thing that you're taught since childhood. You don't go in these places.
Sid Roth: So you're in there, you're trapped, you're paid in advance. What happens next?
Moshe Laurie: I go all the way in. I go off to the side and won't talk to anybody. I'm just doing one of these numbers. Yeah, I walked in. I got as far over as I could in the corner. I wouldn't even set up my tripod because I was afraid if I had to get out of there quickly I didn't want to lose my equipment. I started videotaping, minding my own business, Sid, and I hear a voice all of a sudden.
Sid Roth: Are you used to hearing voices?
Moshe Laurie: Not back then I wasn't, oh no.
Sid Roth: First time.
Moshe Laurie: First time that I heard one audibly. I always waited to hear.
Sid Roth: Audibly or inside?
Moshe Laurie: I thought it was audibly. I heard this voice as clear as you.
Sid Roth: Someone spoke to you and what did they say?
Moshe Laurie: It said, "You can serve the Father through me, you will serve the Father through me, for I have come in his stead". Did you hear that? "You can serve the Father through me, you will serve the Father through me, for I come in his stead". And Sid, I started crying like a baby. Big hero, armed. I started to cry because at that very moment, I think I may have mentioned to you when we were talking, that I had been waiting all my life for the Messiah to come, all my life, since I was a little boy, because this is what we waited for.
Sid Roth: Sure. At passover, we wanted Elijah...
Moshe Laurie: He's at the door.
Sid Roth: Right. Could this be the passover the Messiah will come.
Moshe Laurie: And I knew at that very moment, I knew that I knew, that not only was that the Messiah, but it was Jesus, Yeshua, not the one I really wanted to be the Messiah, but I knew that I knew. And you know, people have asked me over the years, how did I know. Well I can't even tell you today that I knew. But I know and I know, and I don't care.
Sid Roth: Okay. God speaks to you and says, repeat that, what did he say?
Moshe Laurie: "You can serve the Father through me, you will serve the Father through me, for I have come in his stead".
Sid Roth: Listen, you're not like a secular Jew that had no education. How much Yeshiva, school, did you go through?
Moshe Laurie: Altogether as an adult and as a child, 21 years.
Sid Roth: Of Yeshiva.
Moshe Laurie: Yeah. And because of my security background, Sid, if that wasn't supernatural, I'd have taken that camera apart to see who was playing games. Who planted the tape recorder?
Sid Roth: All right. You get an audible voice, tells you, you should serve Jesus. What do you do with this information?
Moshe Laurie: Oy vey. I finished videotaping. Remember, I walked in there all surly and hiding, I walked out, I got the equipment back up. These people thought I was crazy. I got this big grin on my face. I'm walking out trying to shake these people's hands and they don't want nothing to do with me. They think I've gone completely nuts that I must have taken some drug while I was in the corner videotaping. What I really needed to do now is find out what I was supposed to do. I had no clue. The only thing I knew about Christianity was to refute it. I had been trained as an adult how to come against it.
Sid Roth: How were you trained? Who trained you?
Moshe Laurie: Out of the last place I studies was in Esha Torah, a Yeshiva in Jerusalem, it's the flame of the Bible. And senior students and first year rabbis were trained on how to refute the New Testament. We carried plastic cards, no it isn't John 3:16, it's Joel, we had it all set. So I needed to know what to do because if I had been a non-Jew and I converted to Judaism at that moment, I would have needed to find a rabbi and then spend almost a year learning the 1600, 613 mitzvoth. So I was running around that whole day. I didn't want to deal with catholics. I was brought up with catholics. I knew that this was the Messiah, but I wasn't so sure about these people.
Sid Roth: You know what I'm curious?
Moshe Laurie: What?
Sid Roth: Your wife, your children, Israelis, how did they handle this?
Moshe Laurie: Not well. After all this was said and done, I went back to Israel and, you know, I didn't have a whole lot of sense with what the reaction would be. I was just so thrilled that the Messiah...
Sid Roth: Your whole life you're waiting for Messiah.
Moshe Laurie: Thirty-nine years, Sid.
Sid Roth: He's not the one that you expect.
Moshe Laurie: I go running back. I arrive. My best friend shows up at the house. He's also involved. I say to him, "The Moshiach has come". And he goes, because he was also religious, he goes, "Where"? And I say, "Listen, it's Yeshua, it's this Jesus guy. He's been here 2000 years and we blew it". He gets very quiet and he says to me, "Moshe, I got to go for a minute. I'll be right back". Sixteen years he hasn't come back yet. They divorced me against my will.
Sid Roth: Your wife.
Moshe Laurie: My wife really didn't want it, but she comes, she's Iraqi, she comes from a very old, old family, very involved in security since like the early '30s. They decided that I was nuts, I was crazy because I accepted this false prophet as the Messiah. In Israel, if you wanted to divorce, Sid, a woman cannot get one, period. A man, takes two and half, three years because it's a spirit of reconciliation from the rabbis. They divorced me in less than two months against my will because they decided I'm spiritually crazy.
Sid Roth: What happened with your children?
Moshe Laurie: They took them. They divorced, I didn't see my children.
Sid Roth: Why? I'm just curious. Your whole life you realize, you've been told Jesus isn't Messiah. Now God tells you he is. It's costing you your family. Couldn't you compromise a little?
Moshe Laurie: Actually, I had left and there was kind of a feeler. I could have gone back after about four or five months, possibly, and just said, "Listen, stress, I was on a sabbatical, meshugah, I was a little bit crazy, I'm sorry. It was wrong". Go into a little bit of counseling with our agency and then go sit with the rabbi for six months quietly, and I would have gotten it all back. Because not only did they take my family, my job, I found out later, they cancelled my passport. I'm surprised they didn't kill me. If I were them, I would have killed me because what I knew and what I was involved. As far as they were concerned, I was absolutely unstable. Sid, I went from being...
Sid Roth: But wait a minute. Maybe this voice was just your imagination. Why would you wreck your whole family over serving the Messiah?
Moshe Laurie: Because I knew. I knew that I knew. How could I not? Listen, my whole life changed.
Sid Roth: This is your wife, your children. Come on, Moshe, you're human.
Moshe Laurie: I didn't have a choice. I knew. Listen, from that moment on, I came into real joy, Sid, that if, you know what, I had more problems from that moment on than I ever had in my entire life.
Sid Roth: All these physical things happened. You had how many major diseases?
Moshe Laurie: Eight. Been more since then.
Sid Roth: Tell them the major diseases that you had.
Moshe Laurie: Well I had a heart condition. There was damage in the back of my heart. I had valve trouble. I had sick sinus syndrome, it's the pacemaker got destroyed, I think, when they were fixing it. I had degenerative arthritis of the spine and joints. I had four different lung diseases that were so bad that I couldn't even breathe properly. The joint problems and the weight.
Sid Roth: How was your walking?
Moshe Laurie: Well I walked with a cane or I sat in a wheelchair. There was no choice. I had almost 28 years of martial arts, and of course, the one I used wasn't for sport, the different amalgamations of seven different forms, and there was just a combination that was literally destroying the cartilage in the joints. The arthritis was so bad.
Sid Roth: Hold that thought. You're going to find out that the God he served honored him and he had miraculous healings, next. Stay right there.
Sid Roth: Hello. Sid Roth with my guest Moshe Laurie. Moshe was a Mossad officer, a professional assassin. He hears a voice that tells him what he didn't want to hear. His whole life as an orthodox Jew, he wanted the Messiah, but he finds out that it's the Jew Jesus. His wife, his two children leave him. They want nothing to do with him. Then things get even worse. He has eight major diseases. Could the doctors cure your arthritis?
Moshe Laurie: Oh no.
Sid Roth: What type, tell me how bad the arthritis was.
Moshe Laurie: How degenerative arthritis in the spine and joints so bad I couldn't pick up ten pounds. If I tried to pick up a loaded briefcase, I would scream from the pain. Today I could pick you up.
Sid Roth: I don't want you to try. How was your walking?
Moshe Laurie: I couldn't really walk well. I mean, I had to walk with a cane. I had huge pain. It was almost impossible. I rode in a wheelchair, when I'd go to the supermarket, I'd take the motorized carts. They thought that, in '91, they thought that I wouldn't live out the year. I was taking 12 medications three times a day, and this is what was going on.
Sid Roth: Tell me what your prognosis was for life.
Moshe Laurie: I was supposed to be dead by the end of '92. They said that I would not live out the year because the heart was deteriorating, the medications were interacting on themselves. They had just nowhere to go. My lungs, the lungs were getting worse. They inserted a pacemaker. The pacemaker was on demand.
Sid Roth: So Moshe, you're following Jesus. You lose your wife. Between you and me, did you love your wife?
Moshe Laurie: My one true love. I mean, not my one true love because God has replaced it.
Sid Roth: Obviously.
Moshe Laurie: This was my love.
Sid Roth: Did you love your children?
Moshe Laurie: Yes, yes.
Sid Roth: Was it hard?
Moshe Laurie: It was difficult, but he took care of it.
Sid Roth: Okay. But now you have all these physical things wrong with you. Literally, you're crippled. You're not good for anything. Between you and me, you really think this Jesus is real?
Moshe Laurie: I don't look very crippled today, do i?
Sid Roth: No.
Moshe Laurie: 1992.
Sid Roth: Listen, I got the medical reports right here and you were a mess.
Moshe Laurie: Dying.
Sid Roth: You know, there's no cure for arthritis.
Moshe Laurie: No, yes there is. Today there is.
Sid Roth: What?
Moshe Laurie: Yeshua. You also have the report in there that says that just a few weeks ago, they did a scan for bone and the doctor found, the foot doctor that was doing this didn't know my background and said, "I'm sorry, I want to tell you that you have a little bit of arthritis in your shoulders". And I said, "Doctor, are you sure"? I said, "Anything else"? And he said, "Oh no, the rest of your body is the bones and the cartilage are in perfect shape.
Sid Roth: What kind of test did they do for you?
Moshe Laurie: It was a gamma ray test. They took the blood and they put, they get the white corpuscles and they put radioactive.
Sid Roth: So what happened to the arthritis in the spine that was making, on a cane and wheelchair, and the knees, what happened to all that?
Moshe Laurie: He healed it. The Lord said I can put my heel on my waist
Sid Roth: You're not taking these super nutrition things that are supposed to relieve the pain?
Moshe Laurie: Nothing, nothing. I mean, I do herbs and vitamins, but it has nothing to do with this. It's gone. The Lord healed it. God healed this because he promised, and I asked him, I had no choice. Listen, if I was willing to give up my children, my life, my country, why wouldn't I turn to him. I went and said, you said, you said, supernaturally, you said you would heal me. And he did. They can't find any of the diseases anymore, Sid. They can't find any of it. And you know what? He's also establishing my children.
Sid Roth: What do you mean?
Moshe Laurie: My, I hadn't seen my children in 15 years. And I went back to Israel on a tour, and I reestablished myself with my daughter. Found out that she got saved. My 23-year-old daughter is a believer. My former wife doesn't want to hear it, but she is a believer. She's coming to be with us for six months, very soon. He replaced the wife, my true love, with another true love, a believer. He reestablished that. He saved my 82-year-old mother before.
Sid Roth: How? How does an 82-year-old Jewish woman turn to Jesus?
Moshe Laurie: Oy. I heard that I should go tell my mother about Yeshua. And the last thing a good Jewish boy, I donít care how old he is, wants to tell his mother is something she doesn't want to hear. But I went. And I didn't just walk up and say, Jesus. She'd had probably smacked me. I walked up and I began to tell her about the changes in my life. I'm not hunting people anymore. Even though I did it for Israel, mothers don't approve of that. And she knew a little bit about it, so she was not happy. What she said to me at that moment, I was really afraid. I prayed, I went, I said, as big as I am. And my mother was very little, and she said to me, "You know, Moshe, any God who can change you from doing what you were doing back to teaching Torah has got to be a good God". And I said, "Mama, he can be yours, too. You want him"? She said, "Yes". I almost fell over. And we prayed, and she lived for three years, happy, happy with sound mind.
Sid Roth: Moshe, you were consumed with destroying the enemy. Sounds to me like that same thing that was all in encompassing now is in serving God. Do you have joy?
Moshe Laurie: Yeah. You know what, in the work that I used to do, it was living in the pits of hell. You had to go down into the darkness. Man, what man does to man is unspeakable. Since I have known the Messiah, even with all the tribulations and the diseases, and the losses, and the founds, I want to tell you, once you get on God's list and get off the devil's list, he tries to get you back, works very hard at it. But the joy of the Lord is my strength. I am happy. I am healthy. Even when there are tribulations, the joy is, it's, I can't really explain. How can I explain it. And I want to tell you something. I'm still an assassin.
Sid Roth: You are?
Moshe Laurie: Yes.
Sid Roth: You didn't change?
Moshe Laurie: I changed. I don't hunt people anymore. What I hunt now is evil in the name of the Lord and his word.
Sid Roth: Now there is certain evil called diseases.
Moshe Laurie: Yeah.
Sid Roth: That God healed you of and I've got the records right here. I mean, I've got the medical records. You pray for people that are sick. What happens?
Moshe Laurie: They get healed. They get healed.
Sid Roth: Now someone told me, there's a word, a Hebrew word, hallelujah.
Moshe Laurie: Yes.
Sid Roth: What does that really mean?
Moshe Laurie: It comes from the word "Hallel", and hallel means just absolute, absolute joy. It's even more so. What was that word I told you? I forget.
Sid Roth: Outrageous.
Moshe Laurie: Outrageous abundant, beyond, uncontrollable, uncontrollable joy.
Sid Roth: Uncontrollable joy. What's going on in your life right now? I'll tell you one thing. You're watching because there is a God that cares about you and there is a destiny on your life. Can you understand this uncontrollable joy? The only way you can understand this uncontrollable joy is to experience the life of God in Yeshua, Jesus the Jewish Messiah.