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Sid Roth - Counterfeit Grace



Sid Roth: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it's naturally supernatural. I wouldn't want it any other way. As you know, I'm a Jewish believer in Jesus. And when I first became a believer I wish it was different. But I really wasn't mentored. I was almost on my own. And the only thing I really knew was the Bible. And so what did I do? I read the Bible. And then after reading the Bible I started looking at religion. I mean, and some people would say, God doesn't heal today. And I'm thinking, what Bible were they reading. I don't understand this. And some people would say, oh, God is my buddy. Yea God.

I come from a Jewish background. God is holy. There's a reverence. Yes, there's an intimacy with Him. I saw no reverence for God. It was just strapping your seatbelt and go buddy. No. That's not the God I read about in the Old and the New Testament. And then I heard, once you're saved, no matter what happens you will always go to Heaven, and if something happens you really weren't saved. That's not what this book is saying. And it's too late to tell me God doesn't heal today. I've seen too many miracles. It's too late to tell me God isn't a holy God. He is a holy God.

It's too late for you to tell me that once I'm saved, nothing can ever stop me from being saved. It's too late. But there is a spirit of delusion that is coming upon the church, and I want you warned, so it doesn't touch you and it doesn't touch your loved ones. That's what we're going to talk about today. Hello. Sid Roth here with Tony Kemp. And Tony is my friend. He's a member of the board. He's a student of the Word of God, a graduate of school theology. And Tony, you were telling me that in the great Azusa Street Revival, which happened early 1900's, there was a prophecy, which appears to be talking about today, because it also is talking about Bible scripture. Tell me about it.

Tony Kemp: Well the apostle Paul wrote to Timothy in 1 Timothy, Chapter 4. And this is what he said, he said, "The Holy Spirit is speaking in unmistakable terms of the last days". That in the last days, Sid, "Some shall depart from the faith". He didn't say that they would reject the faith. But Paul said that they would depart from the faith. In other words, they would gradually depart from the truth and the grace message of Jesus. And he also told Timothy in the second letter, that in the last part of the last days, "Some would not hold on to sound doctrine".

And so here's the prophecy that happened in Azusa Street between 1909 and 1910. Here's what the Word said: "It shall come to pass in the last days of the great Pentecostal movement three things are going to occur. One, the people will praise a God that they no longer pray to". And remember, the apostle Paul said first prayers, supplications, intercessions then giving thanks, and praise and worship to the Father. The second thing he said in this prophecy is that the leaders, the ministers, the people would emphasize power instead of right living. And the third thing the prophecy said was people will emphasize the gifts of the spirit instead of the lordship of Jesus the Messiah.

Now Sid, do we need praise and worship in the church? Yes. But every single one of us who are disciples of the Messiah need to have a prayer life. Do we need the power of the spirit and the demonstration of the spirit in the church? Absolutely. But we need to practice right living every single day. Do we need the gifts of the spirit and manifestations of the glory of God? Yes we do. But we need to do so in submission to the person of Jesus and in surrender to Jesus and in obedience to the lordship of Jesus the Messiah.

Sid Roth: Okay. Tell me. Give me a short definition of the biblical understanding of grace.

Tony Kemp: Well first of all, Paul said to Titus, he says, "The grace of God has appeared to all men bringing salvation". At first, when I look at the grace of God I look at the goodness and the person of Jesus. But secondly after that, I see grace as divine influence. And this divine influence causes me, Sid, when I hear the truth of the Gospel to turn from sin, against sin and surrender my life to Jesus the Messiah. This true grace emphasizes to me the need to deny myself, take up the cross and obey Jesus everyday. In other words, true grace, Sid, produces a transformation of habits, character and life, and calls us to become more and more like Jesus as I develop intimacy with God through Jesus the Messiah.

Sid Roth: Okay. What is, and this is the word that God has given, what is counterfeit grace?

Tony Kemp: Counterfeit grace in a word is powerlessness. In other words, if I preach a message of counterfeit grace I say to you, come to the altar, receive Jesus as Lord and Savior and God loves you. But I don't preach a message of personal deliverance, freedom, liberty, transformation of habits, character and life. I say to you, because God loves you, you can just stay in sin. But true grace says, God loves you and is going to save you from your sins, and change your life progressively and completely as you submit to Jesus the Messiah.

Sid Roth: You know, this counterfeit grace message goes so far as to say, because of what Jesus did at the cross that we don't have to repent of sin any more once we get born again .And what about the teaching of once saved, always saved. I want to talk about that when we come back. Don't go away.

Sid Roth: Hello. Sid Roth here with Tony Kemp. And Tony, I don't get it. I have read it's too late for me. I've read the Bible. I don't understand how someone could think, once saved, always saved. Tell me why that's wrong.

Tony Kemp: Well first of all, Jesus said in Matthew 24, speaking to his disciples, he says, "He who endures to the end the same should be saved". Jesus is talking to those that are his followers, his disciples, and he's saying, you must obey me to the end of your lives, to go to Heaven and to go to glory. In addition to that, the apostle Paul, who was the great teacher of grace, said in Romans 11, he said, "Remember now, both the goodness and the severity of God on those that sinned and failed God's severity came upon them. But God said on you with goodness, if you continue in this goodness," meaning continue to obey the teaching of Jesus the Messiah, he said then, "If you refuse to obey the teaching of Jesus to the end of your life and you backslide," he said, "God will cut you off". And this is what he said, Sid. He said, if God did not spare the natural, take heed that God does not spare you.

Sid Roth: That's what I was reading. I don't understand. Unless you lift scripture out of context and do not look at all scripture, that's the only way you can come up with that, really.

Tony Kemp: Not only that, the apostle of love, John, who wrote the Book of Revelation, God comes to John and through the person of Jesus by the spirit, and Jesus begins to talk to the church in emphasis and says, "I have something against you. You have left your first love. You've backslid". He said, "Repent and do your first works again". Then Jesus speaks to John about Sardis, and this is what he says: "You have a name that lives," indicating at one time you were born again, you had a salvation experience. But Jesus says, "You need to remember from where you have fallen and you need to repent".

And then Jesus says this: "You have a few names of Sardis who have not defiled. They shall walk with me and right". And what Jesus is saying, is you have some people who are living a clean life, a holy life, a righteous life before me, and they're going to glory. Then Jesus says one other thing. He says, "He who overcomes," meaning overcomes sin, because Jesus defeated sin, "that same person will have their name in the Book of Life. But the person who surrenders to sin and does not continue to follow Jesus to the end," he said, "I will block that person's name out of the Book of Life".

Sid Roth: Okay. What would you say, and I think you've almost answered the question, to those that say, yes, you have to repent when you're saved. But once you do that, since Jesus already died for all of your sins you don't have to repent any more.

Tony Kemp: Well let's take a look at this. Because Jesus speaks, in Chapters 2 and 3 of the Book of Revelation, to the seven churches, and to five of those churches he tells them to repent. In addition to that, you have in Acts, Chapter 8, Phillip the evangelist preaching, and a sorcerer by the name of Simon gets saved. And it says there that he gets saved. Later on, Simon sees the apostles lay hands upon people and they get baptized with the Holy Spirit. Ask the apostle Peter if you give him money, if maybe you can get this power. And he approaches Peter. And this is what Peter says to him. He says, "Your heart is not right with God in this manner". This is what Peter says. He says, "You need to repent of the wickedness of this thought and ask God to forgive you". In addition to that, John, the apostle of love in 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all that's not righteous".

Now Sid, it has been said that 1 John was written to Gnostics, a people who taught false doctrine, but the letters were written to the church. John actually says, Sid, "My little children". He said, "You spiritual fathers who know Jesus the Messiah, you young men who have the Word of God living in you, you've overcome the wicked one, you children, you spiritual children who know God, that's who I'm writing to". And so it is very clear that the Word of God teaches us, after we get saved we need to repent because repentance is the method that God uses to transform your mind and my mind so that we do the will of God in a way that's acceptable, pleasing and honoring to him.

Sid Roth: Okay. Tony, what about someone says, are you saying to me, Tony, I have to be born again twice? Is that what you're saying?

Tony Kemp: No, I'm not saying that. Here's what is the truth. Jesus says to one of the churches in the Book of Revelation, "You were born again, but because you chose to sin you spiritually died". And when a person repents they can spiritually come back to life.

Sid Roth: Some of the counterfeit grace teachers are teaching either there is no Hell or there's something like a Purgatory, a short term Hell, and then you go to Heaven. What would you say to them?

Tony Kemp: Well I'm listening to the apostle of love, again, John, and he says in Revelation 14, and he also says in Revelation 20, "That the people who are not found in the Book of Eternal Life, those who have repented, believe and obey Jesus the Messiah, that they go to the Lake of Fire and they're tormented there forever".

Sid Roth: Now what is the Lake of Fire?

Tony Kemp: The Lake of Fire is Hell. It's where everyone goes who does not obey Jesus to the end of their lives. And allow me to say this, too, Sid, I want to listen to Jesus, because Jesus said in Mark 9, and Jesus is speaking to his disciples. He said, "If a person dies in sin," and Jesus actually says to the disciples, "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. If your eye causes you to sin, cut that sin off. If your foot causes you to sin, cut it off". Jesus said, "The person who dies in sin will go into the fire that never shall be quenched".

Sid Roth: Why is Tony, why is he so passionate over this? Because the Bible says it. Why is he so passionate over this? Because he had a vision of the Lake of Fire. He had a vision of Hell. And I want him to tell us about that when we come back. Don't go away.

Sid Roth: Hello. Sid Roth here with Tony Kemp. And we're talking about an amazing end time move for the devil. It is one of the major heresies to ever hit the church, and it's spreading throughout Christian television and Christian radio, and books and conferences. It's called the counterfeit grace message. Now Tony, people would say, wait a second, Tony, you're saved by grace, not by works. What are you talking about?

Tony Kemp: Well here's what I would say. I would say that grace is the influence of God in my life, the presence of God in my life and the power of God in my life. And grace produces genuine repentance. Where I bring to Jesus the fruit of repentance, grace produces right living everyday, and grace produces intimacy with the person of Jesus and with God the Father.

Sid Roth: I like that kind of grace.

Tony Kemp: Amen. Amen. Grace is powerful. Grace causes people to be safe from their sins, delivered from darkness. Grace causes people to walk in holiness, causes God to enjoy his sons and daughters, and grace enables you to enjoy God like never before.

Sid Roth: What would you say to someone that says, but wait a second, Tony, you can't get away from God's grace.

Tony Kemp: I would say this. I would say that the Word of God says that you can fall from grace. And the apostle Paul said in Galatians 1, he said, "I marvel that you are so removed from him who called you into the grace of the Messiah. And talked about it to those Galatian believers who decided to backslide, and he actually makes this phrase. He said, "You have fallen from grace". Now listen, Sid, I'm going to listen to the apostle Paul. I'm going to listen to Jesus who told people that they had to obey him to the end.

Sid Roth: Well listen, these false teachers use the scripture. There's no condemnation. They say, let's just preach love. That's the only way people will come to know Jesus. Let's get this condemnation business gone. In fact, God says there's no condemnation in Messiah Jesus.

Tony Kemp: Well let's talk about love. Because in the Book of Revelation, Chapter 3, Jesus addresses the church. And this is what he says: "As many as I love, I rebuke and correct". He said, "Repent and turn from sin". That's my first response. Here's my second response. Jesus, because he loves us, Jesus represents the Father. What father has a son or daughter that he doesn't correct or chasten, or bring into character development. And so when we receive the correction of God we receive the direction of God, and we come into character development with just holiness.

Sid Roth: Okay. But the scripture actually says, Tony, there's no condemnation for those that are in Christ.

Tony Kemp: Romans 8:1 says this: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus who do not walk after the flesh, but walk after the spirit. For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death".

Sid Roth: So they leave the last part of the verse out.

Tony Kemp: And that's what makes it a counterfeit message, because God sent his son to condemn sin and the flesh. And when I surrender to his son Jesus, the righteousness of the teaching, the instruction, the law fulfilled in me as I walk in and by the power of the spirit.

Sid Roth: You had a vision, multiple visions of the Lake of Fire, of Hell. Tell me what you saw.

Tony Kemp: Well it all began in 1989, where I had an out of body experience. An angel came to me and I was taken to Heaven. But as I was on my way to Heaven, I saw the souls of those that were departing Earth, and they went into a portal toward the Lake of Fire. Later on in the mid to late 1990s, I had two visions. And I saw the Lake of Fire, fire, brimstone. And then God Almighty took me up close to one individual who was hanging in the fire and suffering, tormented because of disobedience and rebellion to the Word of God, and because they did not live for Jesus the Messiah.

Sid Roth: Hell is real to you.

Tony Kemp: It's real.

Sid Roth: Hell is real. And I'll tell you what concerns me the most, you know, Tony, and audience, what concerns me the most is people that are in sin that aren't concerned about the sin that they're in. I mean, I talked to someone recently that is a homosexual, and this person didn't seem to be bothered one iota. Do you know why she wasn't bothered? She is this close to having her conscience seared. And once your conscience is seared you cannot be convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit.

The counterfeit grace message says that the Holy Spirit doesn't convict you of sin under the New Covenant. You just don't know the Bible. I'm concerned about you that are involved in the sin of pornography. I'm concerned about you that are involved in the sin of drugs and addiction. I'm concerned about you that are having sex outside of marriage. I'm concerned about you that are involved in the new age. Do you know how close you are to having your conscience so singed, so seared that you won't be able to repent. But you would not watching this show right now if you had crossed the line. Repent. The Kingdom of God is now.

Repentance means turn from your sin, believe that the blood of Jesus washes you away when you repent, and turn to God for the power to be free. The Messiah says, "You shall know the truth". He's a person. His name is Jesus. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free". Choose life. You do not know when your end will come. As smart as you are, you do not know when your end will come, and I don't want to see your conscience seared so you can't repent. It will never be easier than this moment, never easier than this second. Make your peace with God right now in Jesus' name.
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