Sid Roth - I Said, "God, Are You Real?" His Answer Shocked Me
Sid Roth: Welcome, Holy Spirit! Go and flow. My guest, Susan Perlman, a Messianic Jew, came to faith during the Jesus Movement of the 1970s. As co-founder of the Jews for Jesus, she found herself on the cutting edge of Jewish evangelism. I want to find out how she felt when her faith and Jewish identity were challenged, and tradition no longer provided the answers she so desperately needed.
Susan Perlman: Hi. It's good to be with you, Sid, and to be able to share some of my story. As you mentioned, I am a Messianic Jew, but I grew up in a traditional Jewish home in Brooklyn, New York.
Sid Roth: My favorite place!
Susan Perlman: Of course.
Sid Roth: I love the food there!
Susan Perlman: But there's good food in the Middle East, too.
Sid Roth: I'm sure.
Susan Perlman: And I thought my Jewish identity was wrapped up in being a good Jew. It never occurred to me to actually venture into the realm of Christianity at all. I think if anyone had told me back then that I would end up believing in Jesus, I would have laughed and said, "That's impossible". And yet God did touch me in an amazing way.
Sid Roth: You know, I want to go back to the very beginning. You had something happen to you that happened to me, Susan. Someone said, "You killed Jesus". Do you remember that?
Susan Perlman: Yes. When I was in public school, after a class we would have religious instruction. And this friend of mine came back one day from her religious instruction to tell me that I had killed Jesus. And I remember, I was, like, nine years old, and I said, "I would know it if I killed somebody. And I didn't". And she said, "No, it's the truth". And I said, "It's not the truth". And she said, "Well, the nuns told her, and they don't lie". And so I went home that night, and I was so upset. I told my mother what had happened, and she said, "Well, Susan, that is what they, the Gentiles, think we did, that we killed their God. Of course it's nonsense, it's foolish. But just know that's what they believe".
Sid Roth: Then tragedy hit. Your father had a sudden death. How old were you, about?
Susan Perlman: I was 12 then. And my father had an unexpected heart attack, and died. And my mortality was something I had to think about for the first time. I remember, as is traditional in Jewish homes, we would sit at home for the first seven days, it's called "Shiva," mourning for the death and thinking of memories of my dad. And it was traditional as well for the family Rabbi to come by and pay his respects. And I remember asking the Rabbi, because I was really troubled with this, I said, "Is my daddy in heaven"? And his answer did not satisfy.
Sid Roth: What was it?
Susan Perlman: Sid, he said to me, "Well, you know, your life that you lead from now on will be a testament to him, and his memory will stay alive in that". And I was a precocious 12-year-old, and I wasn't satisfied...
Sid Roth: You still are, by the way.
Susan Perlman: I probably am. And I said, "You didn't answer my question, Rabbi". So then he tried again. And he said, "Well, you know, we can't know for sure what lies beyond the grave. But we can hope, and your father was a good man". Again, that answer didn't satisfy me, either. I shelved it, but I also kind of thought about it over time, that Judaism, at least the authorities in Judaism I knew didn't have answers for the most important questions of life.
Sid Roth: Then you meet the Jesus people?
Susan Perlman: Yeah, can you believe this? I mean, I...
Sid Roth: Yeah. Now you're working in New York. What are you doing?
Susan Perlman: I'm working as a copywriter. I'm writing bedspread ads for J.C. Penney. I'm making a good living. I love my life. But I'm on my lunch hour, and I run across a guy. He had blonde hair down to his shoulders and a guitar slung on his back. And he was wearing a button that said, "Smile, God loves you". Now I had read in "Time" magazine about the Jesus Movement, and he just was the epitome of what I thought the Jesus people were. So I said, "Are you one of those Jesus people"? I stopped him, Sid. I just stopped him on the street, because that's who I was. I'm still that way, I guess.
Sid Roth: You are.
Susan Perlman: Anyway, I said, "Are you one of those Jesus people"? And he said, "I guess you could say that". And I said, "Exactly what is it that you believe"? Now, wouldn't most of you people out there love to have someone stop you and ask you that kind of question? And he said, "It's noisy here, let's go into a coffee shop". We did. And then he shared the gospel with me. For the very first time, I heard the message that Jesus came, died from my sins, and that by accepting His forgiveness, I would have new life in Him. Well, I listened politely, but then I said, "I should tell you, I'm Jewish". Now...
Sid Roth: That's usually the way to stop everything.
Susan Perlman: Absolutely. I expected an apology at that point. I thought he'd say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you were Jewish". But instead, he said, "Oh, that's great"! Well, I thought that it was pretty good that I was Jewish, but I couldn't understand why he would think that. And then he said, "You know, my Savior is a Jew. And the New Testament was written by Jews". And Sid, I think I knew that theoretically, but it never really sunk in. And he then said something even more interesting to me. He said, "I'm a folk singer. I'm doing a concert tonight in a church, and I would love to invite you to come with me". Now, he was actually a very famous folk singer, I mean, if I have to stop someone on the street, it's good that I got someone who was as well known as him. His name was Larry Norman. And he took me with him to this church, and I heard the gospel again.
Sid Roth: But then... and this is going to be hard for you to believe, but it's true... then she meets an angel. An angel?
Susan Perlman: I did. And it was not what I expected. I listened to the whole message, the worship, the words of testimony, people sharing about answered prayer... it all made a lot of sense to me, and I actually was a little nervous about it, so I walked outside of the church in the service, while it was still going on. And I looked up at the sky. It was a warm night, summertime, stars were out. And I said, "I don't know, God, if You're real, if You're there, if I'm talking to thin air or not. But if You are, and Jesus is who these people say He is, then I want Him in my life. If He could forgive my sins and make me whole, make me new, make me fresh and clean in Him, I'm ready". And I didn't hear, like, an audible voice, you know, there was no handwriting in the sky. But I did hear a still, small voice in my heart. And I'm convinced it was God. And He said to me, "Susan, Jesus is My Son". And I knew it was true, at that point. I mean, tears were running down my eyes, and I prayed to receive Jesus into my heart. I said my version of a sinner's prayer, probably not very eloquent, but I think it did the trick. I walked back into the church. I slipped into the last row, and just sat there. And this man was sitting next to me, I hadn't noticed him until that moment, but he said, "Excuse me, did you just receive Jesus into your heart"? Well, oh, I was, like, astounded.
Sid Roth: I mean, you were by yourself when you did that.
Susan Perlman: I was by myself in this row, yeah. And I said, "Yes, I did. How do you know"? And he said, "Well, I can see it all over your face". And I guess I just blinked my eyes for a second, and I opened them. And he was gone. He wasn't there. He couldn't...
Sid Roth: Where did he go?
Susan Perlman: ...he couldn't have walked out. It was just a split second. And I really believed that he was an angel that God sent so that I could actually articulate out loud what I had just done.
Sid Roth: You know, not only was Jesus the bridge to God's presence, but Susan also became a revolutionary for Jesus, finding herself on the very front lines, literally on the front pages of major newspapers. Be right back.
Sid Roth: So Susan received a call from Moishe Rosen, the founder of Jews for Jesus. He offers her the opportunity of a lifetime. She leaves her successful career in New York, relocating to California to become the co-founder of Jews for Jesus, venturing into unchartered waters. This groundbreaking ministry was unlike anything before, focusing on up-front, sometimes in-your-face, direct Jewish evangelism. What was it like, stepping out into those unchartered waters? Would you say it was thrilling? Would you say it was scary? Would you say it's all the above?
Susan Perlman: Well, it was. But I was an activist. I was involved in leafleting for all kinds of causes. But now I had a cause that really made a difference for all eternity. I was handing out something that would get people to think about their future, their destiny. Some of the titles of our early literature were very thought-provoking, like, "If being born hasn't given you much satisfaction, try being born again". Or there was a psychobabble book, best-seller out called, "I'm Okay, You're Okay". And so we wrote something that said, "I'm So-So, You're So-So". You know?
Sid Roth: How did you get these, and I remember reading these tracks you did. How did you get these fabulous ideas? This is not something you copied from a book.
Susan Perlman: No, but we were really engaged in our own people. We were Jews talking to other Jews. Part of what we had to do involving having a sense of humor.
Sid Roth: Oh, you had it.
Susan Perlman: You know? And if you go through the New Testament, Jesus uses humor all over the place. But we also had a serious message. And the message was, we're not taking ourselves so seriously, but we're taking God very seriously, because He cares, and He loves you. And He wants your life to be better than it is right now.
Sid Roth: Many times these young kids on the streets, I mean I saw so many pictures with the T-shirt, "Jews for Jesus", that could be very intimidating. Did they run into problems?
Susan Perlman: We did. We had people, you know, spit at us and shove us but we also had people come up to us and say, "I wish I believed in something as much as you do, that I could stand out and make myself as vulnerable as you do".
Sid Roth: Make a difference.
Susan Perlman: Make a difference.
Sid Roth: Now, Susan also faced some serious enemies in her life, beyond what you've just heard. Cancer. Then she asked her oncologist how long she had to live. Do you remember asking him that question?
Susan Perlman: I do, and it was a her.
Sid Roth: Yeah.
Susan Perlman: And I asked her, and she said, "Well, this is a very aggressive..".
Sid Roth: How old were you at the time?
Susan Perlman: I was 34. "It's a very aggressive, fast-growing tumor". You know, "We're going to treat it very aggressively, but there's no saying how long you have".
Sid Roth: This was breast cancer?
Susan Perlman: This was breast cancer.
Sid Roth: And so was it possible you could die from it?
Susan Perlman: Yes. Yes. But I had, like, a myriad of people praying for me, praying for healing, praying that I would be an overcomer. And God did that. I believe He brought me through it.
Sid Roth: Now, you had pretty aggressive treatment. And you said it was very difficult telling your family about this.
Susan Perlman: Well, it was. My mother, who was not a believer in Jesus, was very upset. She said, "Susan, why did this have to happen to you"?
Sid Roth: Both your mother and father were Jewish, correct?
Susan Perlman: Correct. Correct.
Sid Roth: Okay.
Susan Perlman: Yeah. And I remember answering her and saying, "Listen, would it be better if it happened to somebody else's daughter"? I mean, this is a situation in life where, you know, tragedy and illness happen to both people who live a good life, and people who are living a bad life. But it's how we handle it, and how we approach it. And I said, "I know ultimately, whatever happens, I'm going to be living forever".
Sid Roth: But wait a second. You told your family you're a believer in Jesus, you're out in the streets, you're in headlines. You believe in Jesus and you're dying of cancer? Did your relationship wane with God?
Susan Perlman: No, the opposite. I mean, when you know that the things of this earth might be short-lived, then God becomes even closer and stronger. And He was there for me in so many ways. I remember even when I was going through chemotherapy, I couldn't read very well, my eyes hurt from the drug. So I listened to the Scripture audio-wise.
Sid Roth: Mm-hmm.
Susan Perlman: And that just opened up a whole new world to me of having His Word come alive. So God sometimes will use things...
Sid Roth: You almost overdosed on Scripture because of that horrible thing the devil was throwing on you.
Susan Perlman: Absolutely.
Sid Roth: So you had the surgery, and you're cancer-free.
Susan Perlman: For many years.
Sid Roth: About 20 years. But then, out of the blue, cancer comes again. What happens?
Susan Perlman: Well, I said, I can't understand the first time why it happened in terms of giving me the testimony. I don't know why a second time, but you know, obviously I can take it.
Sid Roth: You're tough.
Susan Perlman: You know, I'm from Brooklyn.
Sid Roth: That's what I meant.
Susan Perlman: You know? What can I tell you? Yeah. So in any case, I went through another battle, and then succeed in seeing the Lord be victorious and keeping me around. He still had work for me to do. And so I did.
Sid Roth: You know, whether you're a millennial or not, it says, we're all sinners. We've all committed sin. Maybe you're better than someone else, but compared to the holiness of God, you're as filthy rags, according to our Torah. You can be clean right now, through a gift of God. I want you to say this prayer. I've prayed with thousands whose lives have been transformed. And I want you to believe it to the best of your ability. And I want you to pray this out loud, right where you are right now. Repeat these words after me. "Dear God, I'm a sinner. I'm so sorry. I believe Your blood washes me clean. The Passover blood from the Lamb of God. Yeshua, Jesus has made me clean. And now that I'm clean, Jesus, come and live inside of me. I make You my Savior. You saved me from all of my sins. And now I make You my Lord. Amen".
Sid Roth: Susan, God has given you a heart for our people, the Jewish people. I want you to pray in the camera right now for those viewers to have a heart for the Jew, the same heart that you have. Same heart I have.
Susan Perlman: Lord, God of Israel, Savior of the world, we know the only hope for peace that's out there is in Jesus. And we ask that You would put on the hearts of Your people a love for the God of Israel. Bring Shalom, bring Salaam to all. Amen.
Sid Roth: Real quick, I want to know, have you seen any results with these open millennials coming to the Lord?
Susan Perlman: We have. The only hope that they can see is in story, and the story of Jesus is just one that fascinates them. They hear about this Jewish man and what He did.
Sid Roth: You know something? I'm going to tell you something very sad. Very sad. I knew nothing about Jesus except He was a curse word. Oh, I did find out one thing; I found a book called "Ripley's Amazing Jewish Facts," and it assembled all the facts. And I'm going through this, and I see one of the amazing things Mr. Ripley found out. You know what it was? Jesus was Jewish. Do you know what, as a Jew when I read that, what I did? I got angry at Mr. Ripley, and I ran to my mother, and I said, "Ripley says Jesus Christ is Jewish"? And she said, "Yeah, I think He is". Doesn't God have a better witness than Mr. Ripley? You have a divine appointment with the Jewish person that God has put in your life. If you don't share, maybe no one will. There's no other name given unto men in which we must, must, must be saved, but the Name of Jewish. The next Jewish person that crosses your path, tell him the good news, that the Messiah has come and died in their place, made them clean, and then He'll come a second time for all those clean people to spend eternity in love, in heaven with Him. Amen.