Sid Roth - Jesus Came to Me with a Terrifying Message
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world, where it’s naturally supernatural. How would you like to recapture the glory, the presence of God that was on the first Jewish believers in the Messiah? How would you like to recapture the power that was on those first Jewish believers? Peter would walk by: in his shadow, people would be healed. Well my guest, John Fenn, has had 3 visitations from the Messiah of Israel, in which the Messiah has instructed him carefully of what the first Jewish believers in the Messiah had, that we do not have today. I want to find out. John, tell me about that first visitation.
John Fenn: Well the first one actually was a bit of a history lesson. I was kind of minding my own business, praying and worshipping one night in the living room: my wife had already gone to bed. And suddenly the Lord was there: and he came over, and actually sat down, in the spirit. Suddenly I can see both in the spirit realm and the natural. And he said this: «I want to teach you a little bit». And of course I was born-again in the charismatic renewal of the 1970s: late 60s, early 70s, so he said this: «You’re a product of what you call 'The Charismatic Renewal'». He said, «At that time, many of my people came out of the denominational churches because their needs weren’t being met», and he said, «And thus, what you would call parachurch organizations started. And you heard of prayer groups and Bible studies with people meeting on their own». He said, «Out of that sprang up a whole new breed of churches: a whole new generation of churches», and he said, «You’re a product of that»: and that was exactly the case. And then he said this: he said, «But many of those churches have become as rigid and structured and set on their own agenda as the denominational churches that preceded them. And once again, you’re going to hear of my people leaving them, because their needs aren’t being met, because they want more of me». That was the whole, that was a little bit scary, because I was a pastor of a traditional church. But he said…
Sid Roth: So he’s saying there’s going to be within your mind a whole new paradigm different than what we’ve known previously.
John Fenn: And you know when he said that many of that generation, the churches that were birthed in the 70s, 80s and 90s, etc., have become as rigid, inflexible and set on their own agenda as the generation that preceded them. I had to plead guilty. I was as guilty as anyone else, as a pastor. You know, 4 songs, announcements, worship, get to the Buffet line before the next church down the street. And it began birthing in me a desire to just let go and let God: that why did we have to cut-off the worship if the worship was going strong, and the presence of God was so strong? And so that was the summation of that started, that first visitation was a real time of checking and double-checking, and comparing the way church was done in the first century, and the way that church is done today: all over the world there is a big difference.
Sid Roth: Well briefly, what did you find?
John Fenn: Well, so many different things. One of the first things that I noted was that every single book in the New Testament, from Matthew to Revelation, was written to people in living rooms. There were no big buildings at the time or anything like that. Secondly, not a single letter in the New Testament was written to leaders. In other words, it doesn’t start and say, «To the elders», and everything. The word «Pastor», the idea of the pastor being the head came about, you know, 300-and-somethign years later. It was jointly governed by the people. I discovered that when I was reading some of the problems, like for instance in the 1 Corinthians letter, there is a situation with incest, and Paul said, «You should have handled it». He didn’t say, «Get the pastor», «Get the elders»: he said, «You should have handled it». In the very next chapter, two brothers are suing one another: and he says the same thing. Instead of get the leaders or anything, he said, «You should have handled it. Why don’t you guys pick two of the least in the church and let them decide the issue».
Sid Roth: As a matter of fact, you talk about the whole paradigm of church was changed with Constantine.
John Fenn: That’s right. In 313 a.D. I believe it was he issued what’s called the edict of Milan, which legalized Christianity, which brought Christians out of the homes that they’d been in for, you know, more than two centuries. And actually gave them a bunch of money, took over pagan temples, and setup the auditorium-style church that we have today! Now, I’m not against the church by any means: God will fill whatever structure you know that man gives him.
Sid Roth: Of course.
John Fenn: But the very first structure that God gave him was the family.
Sid Roth: Okay. So if we want to get back what that first group of Jewish believers had, we have to do what they did according to the Bible. You had a second visitation.
John Fenn: In February of 2001, I was about to minister in the Toronto area, and during the worship, suddenly the Lord was there, right up by the worship team, about 6 or 7 steps away. And he came walking over to me, and one of the things he said was this: «See what I see. People running to and fro to this meeting and that, looking for the spectacular, thinking that’s supernatural: but they miss the supernatural work in their midst, and in their heart: for the process of discipleship is supernatural». And he said some other things, and he said this: «As it was in the beginning, so it must be now. I am moving in relationships». Well, that launched about a 9 or 10-month study of the word, to look at the relationships, to look more deeply at how the New Testament was actually practiced. And I found, again, that when I was reading Corinthians, and Colossians, and Thessalonians, that these were actually people who were named in the Book of Acts, who hosted these churches! Lydia in Philippi, jason in Thessalonica, you can go down through the names. And so I was realizing I was reading real letters to real people sitting in living rooms who were in relationship. Deep relationship where…
Sid Roth: Well deep relationship is important to God. Is that what you’re saying?
John Fenn: And accountability comes through relationship, and that’s exactly right. You know, I like to say that Christianity started as a relationship in Israel when God came to man: it went to Greece to become a Philosophy, to Rome to become a religion, to Europe to become a tradition and part of the culture, and then to America to become an enterprise.
Sid Roth: That’s quite a mouthful. We’ll be back in just a moment. But he had a third visitation. Don’t go away. Be right back.
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here with John Fenn. And John had 3 visitations from the Messiah of Israel, in which the Messiah told him how to recapture what the first Jewish believers in the Messiah had. And John, tell me about this third visitation.
John Fenn: Well the third one was later that same year, in November of 2001. Again I was up in Canada ministering in a, and this is so important, because it demonstrates the heart of Yeshua. It was in a church that really ministered to the former drug addicts, prostitutes, the red light district. And in the middle of the worship service, after I had already contemplated this, in fact a couple of weeks earlier I told my wife, I said, «You know, I don’t want to pastor a church again. But if I ever did, it would be in my living room, just like the apostle Paul did». And so when the Lord appeared in this worship service and came walking over, the first thing he said as he was walking is, «I love these kinds of people». And it was so important, because that’s the heart of the Lord. There are no facades on people who have been through difficulties in life and such. And he came walking over, and the power of God was so strong. And I don’t want to say he turned it up, but the pastor next to me fell first to his knees, then flat on his face: but my strength left me: fell to my knees. And 3 guys that we’d brought with us said that they saw the Lord that night, and he walked right past them later. But, he said, «You’ve learned much from the people I’ve brought across your path, and you’re studies in the word the last few months. Now I want you to start a house church, and a house church network. And I want you structure it in such a way to facilitate the development of house churches around the world». And I said, «Why»? , you know: «What»?
Sid Roth: Of course.
John Fenn: And he said this. He said, «It’s against a time to come: to resource, and be a resource to them». Now this was in 2001, and so, «A time to come», «Against a time to come» is saying that it will be a provision for a time to come. And now of course we have a network that spans the world of home-based churches. But, the point is, it’s relationship-based faith. It’s relationship-based Christianity, meeting people exactly where they are in life: so we’re very much aware.
Sid Roth: Now how would this differ from the traditional church that has house groups?
John Fenn: House churches and cell churches are two separate animals completely. A house church is completely autonomous: on its own, independent, taking care of each other’s needs. A cell church still is attached to the larger church where the main meeting is a large congregational meeting. A house church see, we’ve discovered that Christianity is the fastest-growing religion in the world, according to the U.S. Center for world missions: almost 8% per year. And you know we see all this stuff on the news about Islam and everything, but the fastest-growing religion is Christianity, and it’s nearly all in-house church. And so the main difference is that people are learning that Christ lives in me, and I can gather with other people, and be committed to them, and meet with purpose. And in our case, in our network, and what we believe is the Book of Acts is normal Christianity, which means it should be dynamic, it should be organic, it should be full of miracles, and that’s what we see happening! God meets us right there because that’s the way, that’s the pattern they did in the Book of Acts.
Sid Roth: You want him to «Provoke you to jealousy»? Tell me about that meeting where the glory cloud came in.
John Fenn: Well you know, Sid, the supernatural happens so often it’s more a matter of picking which one do you want to hear about. But we’ve had several times where, as we’re sitting around in the living room and just in worship: and just not afraid of the silence, not needing to go on because we’re comfortable with one another: just staying in the father’s presence. There have been so many times where we have felt, and several people have seen at the same time, this bright white fog: it just settles on people: and just such peace. When the father ministers, there’s a real depth to it. And I say the anointing for that is like an inner healing: and his presence makes you want to be still, and wait in his presence. But we’ve also had times where we have had several where there’s been like a swirling tornado. Several people in the same house church have witnessed not only a sound that they heard in their spiritual ears, but have seen the swirling tornado of fire. And when it touches them, all the cares, and all the attacks: I want to say the ramifications of the attacks that they’re going through, are just swept away, and burned away, and replaced with the presence of the Lord. It’s like a swirling tornado: it expands and contracts, with the worship and with the presence of God.
Sid Roth: Now, the Lord told you that you were to start these house congregations to prepare for the times that are coming. How do they help one another? I mean we know what the Bible says…
John Fenn: Sure…
Sid Roth: But how does it work practically, someone loses their job?
John Fenn: Well, I’ll give you great examples. You know the Book of Acts, like you said, they took care of one another, and what we do is the same pattern. That if we expect that each house church will take care of its own if there’s a need. But if it’s too large, if the need is too large for that house church, that’s when I hear about it, and we appeal to the network. Very similar to the apostle Paul going around to the Corinthian church and the Philippian church raising funds for the saints in Jerusalem. We recently had a gentlemen who was involved in a car wreck: lost about 6-weeks' worth of income: too large for that local house church. We put it out to the network: were able to send him over $2,200 to help out. This week in Tulsa at our core house church in Tulsa, we’re not having regular church. We have a young family that needs a room finished out: the walls are torn out, and we’re getting the Sheetrock and the spackle and all that that’s needed, and we’re going to finish out that room, in lieu of «Church».
Sid Roth: Well how could you do that? I’m kidding you John! But how does this differ from say a regular church, just smaller?
John Fenn: You know, if a house church is a miniature of what we left, it’s not house church. We believe that the Lord is going to move through the particular gifts that are present. Paul said it this way in 1 Corinthians 14:26. He said, «How is it…Brethren? When you come together, somebody’s got a Psalm, someone’s got something that God’s taught them, someone’s got Revelation»…
Sid Roth: Yeah, but we’ve all been taught to be a spectator, John!
John Fenn: House churches are discussion-oriented, not sermon-oriented. And so in the relationships that develop, and often there’s food. You know, if you…
Sid Roth: Well that’s the Jewish part.
John Fenn: That’s the Jewish connection right there. And so a lot of what you see is the multi-generational: the older moms helping the younger moms, the older dads and the younger dads. And you see this happening over the food, and over the worship, and it’s a participatory in nature. What we do is we ask folks to consider rotating homes, and rotating leadership: each week it’s different.
Sid Roth: You don’t have a single leader?
John Fenn: Don’t have a single leader: it’s mutually governed.
Sid Roth: So we have to look to one another, rather than the one man show.
John Fenn: Exactly: exactly. And what happens is say somebody’s a real, has an anointing and the gifting in music. You know when they lead and they host, it’s all going to be about worship, and that’s fine, because that’s their gifting. Somebody else who’s a teacher, it’s like don’t even bother putting in a CD, because just get out the Concordance and get out the study books, because it’s going to be digging into the word: it varies each week.
Sid Roth: John, hold that thought. But the Lord has given John insight into what’s going to happen in the future. Don’t go away. We’ll be right back.
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here with John Fenn. And John is a proven prophet: he’s prophesied many things, mostly personal things, but some on a national level. Tell me something on a national level you prophesied.
John Fenn: Sure. Well in October before the Iraq war started, I was in one of our house churches in broken arrow, Oklahoma, a suburb of Tulsa. Sitting there on a sofa, in the middle of worship, and suddenly Jesus was standing there, right in front of me, and he said, «Come with me». And immediately I was out and up and standing: I mean this just happened just, standing in the middle of an Iraqi city. I was looking over the shoulder of what was clearly a U.S. Soldier handing a tract to a woman in a black burka, and I said, «Lord, what am I seeing»? , and he said, «The U.S. Military in Baghdad». And I said, «Well how long will it take»? : he said, «About 3 weeks». And this was in October. Of course what happened was it was all over the news. The lightning-fast attack lasted almost exactly 3 weeks, and so I was able to be sure.
Sid Roth: So you knew this ahead of time.
John Fenn: I knew that ahead of time. Like several different things: before the challenger blew up, the day Ronald Reagan got shot, the pope John Paul: all those different things.
Sid Roth: Okay. John, the Lord has told you that we won’t even recognize the United States in the next few years. And tell me exactly what he said.
John Fenn: Sure. Driving down the road, and I was just contemplating the changes between 1995 and 2005 when he spoke to me. So 2005, driving down the road, thinking of president Clinton’s presidency, Monica Lewinsky, all the different things that happened, and then 9-11, and here we are at a war in Iraq, and I said, «Father, I don’t even recognize the country for now, you know, over the past 10 years». And he said this: just interrupted my thought and immediately said, «Truly I tell you, if you don’t think you recognize the country now, I’m telling you the truth when I say you won’t recognize it again in another 10 years».
Sid Roth: And I’m sure that that’s true, unfortunately. John, tell me some of the things that the Lord has shown you about that’ll happen in the future. And did he give you any idea of timing?
John Fenn: There’s, before the election, in last fall, he talked about the new president. And he said there will be a lot of policies put in place. And he said there’s going to be a series of two hurricanes, and then three earthquakes that are going to come against this country. He said, but he said, «First, the president’s policies will all be in place before any of that happens», and that was… So what I’ve been doing is watching the progress as things happen, because it’s not going to happen right now: we have some time. But when things are all set in place, you’re going to see a couple of big storms, and you’re going to see earthquakes. And two of them are not going to be in an area that you would normally associate with earthquakes.
Sid Roth: Hm! Now, why is God telling you, and others, I might add, like, like, like the…
John Fenn: Sure.
Sid Roth: About these house churches. In China, how many house churches are starting every month?
John Fenn: Well you know that nobody really knows: but we do know that, I heard a Chinese house church leader say that there are a million Chinese coming to the Lord every single month. Now if you add that up, that’s, you know, a million a month more. That’s why they’re saying that the church in China is somewhere between 120 million and 200 million Chinese Christians. I heard one of the most fascinating things is they had read in the New Testament how China is undoubtedly one of the 5 kings of the east that will invade Israel at the end-times, and they said, «We want to take Jesus to Jerusalem». And so they actually are spilling over their western borders into Kazakhstan and some of the other «Stans», and their idea is «One house at a time» to go across the southern belly of asia, to take Jesus into Jerusalem. It’s amazing: there’s so much happening. India, it’s exploding, house churches.
Sid Roth: What is going on, according to your research, with people that are dead coming back to life? I mean these are biblical things that happen in the Bible: they happened in the first congregation of Jewish believers. Are you seeing this happen today?
John Fenn: I’m seeing that the reports are all over the place. In fact a good friend, Jim Rutz who wrote «Megashift», has actually documented people being raised from the dead, in I believe it’s at least 70 countries: it’s either 57 or 70: it’s hard to track. Many of them among, well what it is, it’s not church leaders that are raising these people from the dead. It is people who just realize Christ is in them, and the name of Jesus is the most powerful name in the universe!
Sid Roth: Tell me about that one woman that has raised a number of people from the dead.
John Fenn: Well in, for instance in India, there’s the «Dalit»: it is the lowest: the «Untouchables». And a woman who’s a street sweeper: and what happened in her neighborhood and her church was a 5-year old boy got electrocuted. And the parents took him to the hospital, and where they worked on him for a couple hours. And finally pronounced him dead, and they said just take him home and bury him: the parents refused. They came to the end of the natural: they did what they could do in the natural: they brought him home, they called the church. And this little lady, what happened is they began praying at 10pm: at 4am this little boy woke up: completely healed, completely normal. Just has a little bit of a scar behind his left ear where the electrical line electrocuted him. And a friend of mine asked her, «How many of these resurrections he’s raised from the dead have you been involved with»? : she said I believe it was 16, if I have my number right. So here’s this little street sweeper in India: had no idea that it’s quote-unquote «A big deal». To her it’s normal Christianity.
Sid Roth: Now what is the Lord’s desire to be happening in these house congregations?
John Fenn: That the Book of Acts is normal: that there are supernatural relationships, supernatural moving of the spirit. The gifts of the spirit are not only the charismatic gifts. The gifts include people helping each other out, gifts of hospitality and mercy, people with mechanical experience…
Sid Roth: So everyone’s a participant, everyone…
John Fenn: Everyone’s gifted.
Sid Roth: Shares in the love, and in the relationship.
John Fenn: It’s dynamic! It’s dynamic. And the children are all part of it. Unlike the traditional church, you send your kids away and some stranger teaches them about Jesus, the children are all included. So we become a community of family, of extended aunts and uncles, and grandparents, and tossing, no, wouldn’t be the case «Tossing»: «Handing» the babies to one another, or the toddlers you know, going around to one another. It’s just, it’s rich in every area. And so there’s a flow of healing: there’s a flow of love when it’s done in the way that Paul practiced it.
Sid Roth: I have to ask you: does God want to heal anyone right now?
John Fenn: Well there’s healing, especially in the area of hurts and emotions right now that’s going on. In fact, some of you out there are recognizing that you’ve been part of a system that you haven’t ever felt a part of. That you have felt wounded: you’ve been wounded and damaged, and just feel all alone, yet you’re surrounded by people. I’m really getting a word for loneliness right now: loneliness and sorrow, and just feeling detached. And what the Lord is letting me know is there is hope! There are believers out there. The traditional church reaches less than 20% of the population of any given town. Now one man who did some research said in Houston, Texas, only 11% is reached by the traditional church. You may be part of that other 80% who are no longer going to church, yet you desire to be the church, to link-up with others: and so I want to pray for you right now. Father, in the name of Jesus, I ask that you will bring people across their paths. That they, right now, there’s a healing anointing: this is like a soothing oil. In fact in the spirit, I see oil going over the minds of so many different people. And that’s extending also into the physical realm, into the neck, and into the shoulders, and into the upper back. And there’s a healing that’s going forth right now emotionally, to realize that the Lord did not do this to you. And you’ve been confused, but right now, the Lord is letting you know, you know that there is a place: it’s relationship-based faith: it’s relationship-based Christianity. And there’s just a healing anointing right there: so as you feel that warmth, as you feel that, let that warmth and let his presence just touch your heart.
Sid Roth: I’m feeling it right now.
John Fenn: Oh it’s strong.
Sid Roth: What does that mean?
John Fenn: Oh it’s strong.
Sid Roth: What does that mean? It’s just healing me, or…
John Fenn: Yeah. No, it’s just the general anointing on you that’s just happened so often you know, when I minister, and I know others as well. It’s just the general presence of God. What happens is in the end of the gospel of Mark, it says «The Lord worked with them and confirmed the word with signs following».
Sid Roth: «With signs following». Get ready: it’s yours.