Sid Roth - This Miracle SILENCED the Skeptics (Medically Verified)
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world, where it's naturally supernatural. My guest, Delores Winder, had what I believe is one of the greatest verifiable miracles that I've ever observed. You may wonder what's over here. This is a neck brace that she lived in. This is a body brace that she lived. Delores, how long did you live in this?
Delores Winder: Well, I lived in plaster of Paris ones for 7 years, and they would cut the sides open, and put straps on. And then finally they started making plastic, and I lived in plastic ones for another 7-1/2 years.
Sid Roth: What is this bump here, on the back?
Delores Winder: That's where the bone came through the skin, and was stuck out, and had to wear a patch on that to keep that from happening.
Sid Roth: Okay. Some of you perhaps have never heard of Kathryn Kuhlman. I was privileged as a brand-new Jewish believer in the Messiah to see her in the auditoriums. And she had such a relationship with the Holy Spirit that she lived for that relationship. And the greatest miracles I ever saw in my life happened there, but the greatest miracle that I know of that happened under her ministry is my guest Delores Winder. And I want to take you back in time, and I want you to see this miracle taking place. Right now, take a look.
Delores Winder: In a body cast for 14 years: 4 fusions, 1 through the front, the other 3 through the back: 2 cordotomies to kill the pain. So this side of my body was numb from here down: this side from here down. Two weeks before I was healed, my husband and I made my funeral arrangements.
Sid Roth: What you're about ready to have unwind is going to build your belief in God, your belief in the miraculous. Delores, for those that don't understand, you had a disease that your bones were becoming brittle...
Delores Winder: Yes.
Sid Roth: Way before their time.
Delores Winder: Yes.
Sid Roth: And when someone reaches a point that they're about ready to die, they're terminal, and their pain is unbearable, they had a surgery back then which they don't even do today...
Delores Winder: No.
Sid Roth: It's such a horrific surgery. What was it, and what did they do?
Delores Winder: It was percutaneous cordotomy, where they go into the base of the brain, through behind the ear, and they burn out the nerve centers, so you can never feel again in the part of the body that they burn the nerve centers out.
Sid Roth: Now you had it on both sides which meant that you had no feeling from where, your waist down?
Delores Winder: Well, on my right side I had no feeling from my neck down: the left side, from my waist down.
Sid Roth: And there's no reversal for this surgery. Never in the history of the world has it ever been reversed, until that night when she went to the Kathryn Kuhlman meeting. Now Delores loved God, but did not believe in miracles for today: she felt they ceased. And so when the mother of the housekeeper turned on this Kathryn Kuhlman show. What did you say to her?
Delores Winder: Turn it off.
Sid Roth: Why?
Delores Winder: Why? Because I came from Pennsylvania. I was always told Kathryn Kuhlman was a kook: said she healed people and that wasn't true, and I believed it.
Sid Roth: And what did the housekeeper's mother say to you?
Delores Winder: She said to me, "What if you're keeping a door closed to God"? And I had to respond, because at that point, I was waiting for an answer from God, for my youngest son.
Sid Roth: You see, she had a young son. How old was he, Chris?
Delores Winder: He was 14.
Sid Roth: He was 14: and she was wondering what was going to happen to him when she died because, well tell me about the orthopedic doctor that was a friend of yours. When he told you you were going to die, what did he say?
Delores Winder: Well, when he came into the room, they wanted to take me into the hospital one more time: see if there was anything they missed or anything they could still do, or anything they could learn to help somebody else. And when they did all this checking, and had a new neurosurgeon in to look at me, and he said, "It's time to go". The tissues in my back were shredding, even where that bone was through the skin, and they couldn't even patch it. And he came in and sat down, and I said, "What's wrong"?, and he said, "Delores, there's nothing more we can do". And he said, "I would give anything in this world to make you well, and there's nothing to be done".
Sid Roth: And she heard the voice of the Holy Spirit say to her, "Kathryn Kuhlman": and she knew somehow that if she went to the Kathryn Kuhlman meeting, she would find out. She'd have some peace of mind of what would happen...
Delores Winder: That's right.
Sid Roth: To her son. You literally said to, you had "Chutzpah", you said to God, what did you say to him?
Delores Winder: I told him "I will not die till you show me how you're going to take care of Chris". And he gave him to us: he's adopted. And he gave him to us after I was in my first body cast, and then in a brace for several years, and...
Sid Roth: So did Chris ever see you normal?
Delores Winder: No: no, he never did. He never did.
Sid Roth: Okay. So, you know you have to go to this meeting of this woman you don't care for.
Delores Winder: But you know, I could go because it was a Methodist Holy Spirit conference: and I grew up Methodist, and I knew they weren't going to let her do anything out of order.
Sid Roth: Okay. So you get in the car to go to this conference. You get out, but you can't get out of the car yourself, so what do you do?
Delores Winder: Well, Gail always put me in and took me out. And she couldn't get me out because the pain, this shoulder was deteriorated: also both wrists and all my fingers.
Sid Roth: What was going on with your organs?
Delores Winder: Heart and lungs were very bad, and my kidneys had started to close off, and that was what was killing me: yeah. And this man stepped up and said, "Let me help": reached in and picked me up, and took me in. Gail parked the car and came in, and he took us to seats. And Kathryn Kuhlman came out on stage, and I thought, "Dear God, I can't stand to look at her". And the Lord said, "You don't need to look at her: just listen". And so I closed my eyes, and I was holding my head like this, and she said, "Tonight, I'm going to introduce you to the Holy Spirit". Now she's talking to Methodist pastors and lay leaders.
Sid Roth: It wasn't a healing service.
Delores Winder: No, it was not a healing service. In fact, they made her send her people home, because they couldn't have healing. And so I thought, "I know the Holy Spirit: it's the Spirit of God". And she said, "If you call call him 'it', you don't know him". And suddenly, something happened to me. And I had my eyes closed, and I saw a little Kodak slide picture of Chris and a man on our front porch. And the man turned and looked at me, and said, "Tell Chris he need never walk in the house alone": to "Tell him to take Jesus' hand, and walk in, and I'll walk in with him. My name is Holy Spirit".
Sid Roth: And now you felt you had your answer.
Delores Winder: I had my answer: I was ready to go home.
Sid Roth: She was ready to die. But God wasn't ready for her to die!
Delores Winder: Right.
Sid Roth: I know you're not going to go away. Be right back after this word.
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here with Delores Winder. And Delores suffered from such a painful disease. Her bones became brittle: when she was 30, the doctors estimated she had the bones of someone in their mid-70s. Her body organs started closing down. The pain was so unbearable, the doctors said, "Prepare to die". But because the pain was so bad, they did a surgery that's not reversible.
Delores Winder: Right.
Sid Roth: They severed the nerves in the brain so that she didn't have any feeling in her body: they did it on both sides. It's something that it's such a horrific surgery, they don't even do this today. No one in the history of the world ever had this surgery reversed in any way possible. So she goes to this Kathryn Kuhlman meeting, and she had one question in her heart: "What's going to happen to my young son when I die"?: and God showed her, and she was at peace. So she's ready to go, but you need help to get out...
Delores Winder: Yes.
Sid Roth: So what happened?
Delores Winder: Well, I said to Gail, "Let's go", and Kathryn Kuhlman had said, "Somebody had an ear open", and people started going up, and I thought, "Now she's putting on a side-show". And I looked like I fit in a side-show, and I wanted out. So Gail handed me my cane, and I started pulling myself to the edge of the seat so she could get me up. And as I did, my legs were on fire, and I thought, "What on earth is happening"? And the thought came to me that the bone that was out, the cast was putting pressure on it, and making my legs burn. And wasn't I glad I only wore that only 1 hour a day, because bill would get me get up and let me sit up with him for an hour. The...
Sid Roth: The rest of the time you were in the bed.
Delores Winder: Yes, the rest of the time I was in bed. And I thought that was what was happening. And finally a man was down by my seat, and he said, "Something's happening to you", and I said, "My legs are burning". And he said, "Would you walk with me"?, and I said, "Get me out of here". So he got me up, and he said, "How can I help you"? And I said, "If you put one arm around me, and then take this arm, and with my cast, I can shuffle", so we started out. Of course he felt the cast, and finally he said to me, "Have you ever had any surgeries"?, and I said, "I had 4 spinal fusions, and 2 percutaneous cordotomies". And nobody knew what percutaneous cordotomies were, so if I would say that to them, they wouldn't say anymore.
Sid Roth: You could get rid of them.
Delores Winder: I could get rid of them. They would say, "Oh", and that was the end of it. But this man turned me to face him, and he said, "You've had 4 spinal fusions and 2 percutaneous cordotomies"? And I said, "Yes". He said, "Isn't it strange that your legs are burning"?, and I thought, "He knows what I'm talking about", but I wouldn't answer him: I just said, "Yes". We went out to get to the lobby, and he said to me, "You can take your cast off if you want to", and my instant reaction was, "Dear God, these people are dangerous". Never saw me before, and telling me I can take my cast off. And I looked at him, and I saw something: I didn't know what, but I saw something in him. And finally, he said to me, "Do you want to take it off"? Sometimes people aren't willing to get healed: but I said, "I've been in one of these things over 15 years, and I'm dying". And he shook his head, and I knew he knew. And I said, "Yes I would want to take it off". He had me in the women's restroom with Gail in there helping me out of the cast. Had the neck brace off, and he went out while she got this off me. And when he came back in, she said to me, "Is something happening"?, and I said, "No". She said, "This isn't like you". I started to fasten my cast back up: but when that man stepped in the door, I knew he knew something. And I said, "Get this off me, and get me to him". And he carried me out, and he and an usher carried me up on the platform, and Kathryn was waiting for him.
Sid Roth: Let me interject something. What you don't know is this man that walked up to Delores wasn't even supposed to be at this meeting.
Delores Winder: That's right.
Sid Roth: He was a medical doctor, and he felt God told him to go to the meeting, because he had a word of knowledge for one person. And although there were what, a thousand people?
Delores Winder: Three thousand.
Sid Roth: Three thousand people, he walks directly up to Delores: this was the one that God had selected. The reason he knew about the cordotomy is because he was a medical doctor!
Delores Winder: That's right.
Sid Roth: That's why it didn't amaze him. But wait till you find out what happened when she takes the cast off, and goes on the platform with ms. Kuhlman. Don't go away.
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here with Delores Winder. So if you just came on, Delores had this horrible, horrible disease: she was given a death sentence. They severed her nerves so she had no feeling: they don't even do this type of surgery today. And this doctor walks up to her: has a word of knowledge. Tells her to take this off. This is a body brace and a neck cast. She takes it off. I'm still amazed you. Took it off, Delores. And they carry her up to the platform where ms. Kuhlman...
Delores Winder: Yeah.
Sid Roth: Is there, and what happened next?
Delores Winder: Then she said to me, "Walk", and I said, "I can't walk". And I had very little voice because the second cordotomy, they went through the throat: paralyzed my vocal chords.
Sid Roth: Mm!
Delores Winder: And I didn't think she heard me when I said, "I can't" because she said again, "Walk"! And I pushed my foot out to show her I couldn't: came up off the floor. It came down on the floor, and I thought, "I feel the floor. No, you can't feel the floor". But I had to get the other foot out because the man had not moved up: and my body was so crooked, I knew if they let go of me I would fall. So I pulled the other foot up, and it came off the floor, and came down, and I thought, "I feel the floor. No you don't feel the floor. You can't feel the floor". And suddenly I felt, and my fingertips started going up. And they said I was looking at my hand, and then got up so far, and I started screaming, "I can feel, I can fee". She told me to walk: she had no idea what was going on. I ran on the platform: came back, and she said to me, "Bend over". And my doctors could only bend me so far: and I started to bend over, and realized I was free. I could bend, and I touched the floor. And there was a doctor from Dallas sitting on the platform, and he didn't believe any of this. And he said suddenly a hush fell, and he looked up, and he saw my body straighten. And he said, "If that doesn't make a believer out of you, nothing will".
Sid Roth: In other words, he saw your body crooked, and could see it...
Delores Winder: Yes: yes.
Sid Roth: Straighten before his very eyes.
Delores Winder: Yes. And he said, and the next year he introduced us at the Methodist Holy Spirit conference. But I saw in shock, because I didn't believe anything like this.
Sid Roth: They tell me that you ran...
Delores Winder: I ran.
Sid Roth: And you don't even remember it!
Delores Winder: No.
Sid Roth: How could run? How could you do that to go, Delores?
Delores Winder: I don't know.
Sid Roth: Okay. This great miracle occurs: she goes home in a state of shock. I have to ask you, what did your son, that was so important to you, your adopted son say when he saw you?
Delores Winder: He ran out to the car, and I was getting out of the car by myself for the first time he ever saw that happen. And he picked me up, and started carrying me across the street screaming, "You were healed, you were healed". But before we went, we had an incident where he said to me, "Mother, you're going to be healed", and I said, "No, honey, that doesn't happen. And I'm not coming home any different than I'm going: but I will have an answer for you. Do you understand that"?, and he said, "Yes ma'am". And I jokingly say that was my last Methodist Presbyterian Sunday school lesson, "Miracles are not for today".
Sid Roth: How about the doctor? What was his reaction?
Delores Winder: He was so amazed. He was waiting for a phone call from bill to say that I had died. And when he walked in the room, and I told him "Don't tell him I'm here", when he walked in the room and saw me, he said to me, "What's happened"? He said, "You look different. What are you doing"?, and I said, "I want you to check me", and he started checking me. And he got me up on the table, and I could turn over by myself. And he started running his hands down my spine, and he said, "It's straight". And this shoulder was so bad that he couldn't touch it before. And he was pressing on it and said, "Is that hurting"?, and I said, "No, it's not hurting". And finally he looked at me and he said, "I suppose you want me to use the pin, too", and I said, "Yes". And he barely touched my foot, and I said, "It's sharp". He said, "Alright": he said, "That's all. Tell me what happened, but let me sit down". And he sat on his stool, and the tears just dripped. And I said to him, "Van, tell me another way this could have happened", and he said, "There is no other way. This is truly a miracle of God, and you have work to do for him".
Sid Roth: I would like you to see her husband bill, in his own words, describing the worst state that Delores was in, and the change.
Bill Winder: We were in the kitchen, and she was beating her fists upon the wall, saying, "Lord, why don't you take me"? Last they weighed her, she weighed 73 pounds: and I'm sure at the time of healing she weighed less than that. She was one, though, the fact she got these percutaneous cordotomies, they go into the base of the spine and they kill all the nerves to the feeling in your body, when she got that, she was able then to maneuver a little bit more than usual. I never did this to the sense I had to carry her: I had to assist her in and out of bed and so on: we had a hospital bed. And they thought when she got the percutaneous cordotomy that she was naturally going into a wheelchair and that was it: and the type of person she is, she wouldn't accept that. So she would, in fact around the house she'd push a chair around. She walked like a spastic person at first, because she couldn't have any feeling. She didn't know where her legs were: in order to move one leg, she had to look down and see which one was forward in order to move the other one. But to say which is the worst time, I don't know: it was all pretty traumatic. I guess the first thing I really noticed was her back was straight: it had never been because her one leg was an inch and-a-half shorter than the other because the hip had crushed up and, she's the only person in this world that we know that was healed of percutaneous cordotomies. It's an irreversible process.
Sid Roth: Well bill had a brand-new wife! In fact she was so new that she would start teaching Bible studies. And one of the things she disliked about Kathryn Kuhlman was when Kathryn Kuhlman would touch people, the spirit of the living God would be so tangible, it would literally push that person over and they'd fall to the ground. Delores, what happened at your Bible study?
Delores Winder: We got a phone call: someone was in the hospital in critical condition: would we pray. We started praying, and I knew I didn't want to touch anyone, because my hands were hot.
Sid Roth: Why were your hands hot?
Delores Winder: I didn't know yet, but I understood I didn't want to touch anyone when my hands were hot. And this woman had trouble getting up, and I went to help her up. And when I did, I brushed against another woman who fell over her. And then I stepped back and brushed against somebody else, and they fell. And then going out the door, I had a woman in a wheelchair: and I didn't know what had happened, but as I was going out the door I brushed against her, and she fell out of the chair. And I was shook.
Sid Roth: Now all these people at this Bible study that are falling down under the power of God, Delores is very reluctant of all this. She wanted... Did you put your hands in your pockets...
Delores Winder: I did: I did.
Sid Roth: So they wouldn't be, I believe you did that.
Delores Winder: I did.
Sid Roth: And so, she doesn't know what's going on. She then finds out all these people are being physically healed. And over the year, you see I believe Delores Winder received the same anointing that Kathryn Kuhlman received. I believe that the miracles of ms. Kuhlman are the same miracles that occur with Delores Winder.
Delores Winder: Amen.
Sid Roth: And she has put together keys of knowing the Holy Spirit like ms. Kuhlman did. Keys of understanding healing that are vital, that's almost been lost to this generation. Not almost, it has been lost to this generation. So the question I have for you is...
Sid Roth: Do you know the Holy Spirit?
Delores Winder: Yes.
Sid Roth: Do you, ms. Kuhlman would say, "I don't want to even go on a platform, without his presence being on me". The way you know the Holy Spirit is to know Jesus...
Delores Winder: Amen.
Sid Roth: And then ask the Holy Spirit to fill you with his presence. Do that right now. I feel him, don't you?
Delores Winder: Thank you: thank you. Right now: yes.