Sid Roth - She Met Her Baby in Heaven
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here with Mark Virkler. And uh, we're going to talk about an area that uh a lot of people uh confine to the back rooms. But one-third of the ministry, almost one-third of the ministry that Jesus was casting evil spirits out of people. There was a freedom that the primitive, early church had that is lacking so much today. Now Mark, tell me what your first experience was with deliverance.
Mark Virkler: My first experience was with a deacon in our church. He came and uh, he said he had an uncontrollable sin issue. He had fasted, he had prayed, he had memorized scripture: nothing worked. And it was lust, and he would instantly undress every woman when they came to church. He hated himself for it, and he could not overcome it, and so he said, "Do you think this could be a demon"?, and I said, "I don't know", because I had never cast a demon out of anybody! But I said, "If you want us to pray for you, we can", and so we did. The three elders of our church got together: we prayed for him, and um within about a half-hour to an hour, two or three demons surfaced, and we cast them out. I mean the guy was shaking, and there was a gruff voice saying, "I'm not coming out", and we said, "Yes, you're coming out". And we used the name of Jesus: we cast it out. There was sweat pouring off him: he was shaking. They came out, and I thought, "Wow! That's a new experience"!, because I didn't even know deacons could have demons, and so I went back to him a week later, six-weeks later...
Sid Roth: Um hm.
Mark Virkler: A month later, six-months later, a year later, two years later, and I asked him the same question: "Is your life different"? And he said, "Yes". He said, "Now it's like any other sin: I can crucify when I choose to, and I choose to crucify it". So his compulsion, which was caused by a demon, was broken: and he was set free of it through a deliverance prayer.
Sid Roth: Okay. You then went through deliverance. You had a great fear of having a stroke.
Mark Virkler: Yeah I did. My grandfather died when I was maybe 7 or 8, somewheres around there, and my recollection was it was of a stroke. And that wasn't quite accurate, but that was the way I saw it as a child. And so I picked up a fear of having a stroke, which I didn't even know what it was. But I had recurring dreams about 5 days a week for about 15 years: and the dream was I would wake up paralyzed, my head was bloated, my arms were bloated, my tongue was bloated: I would shake the whole thing off, and I'd be fine. And I didn't know that that's not the way you're supposed to wake up! And so when our church got into deliverance, I asked the elders to come pray for me. And as they prayed for a demon to come out, what manifested was that sensation. Um my wife was sitting there in the living room: she said it looked like my tongue was bloated, and I felt like it was bloated, and um, and I shook this whole thing off. I came out with tears, and I've never had that dream since then. That was a 15-year old recurring dream, that I've never had for the last 30 years of my life.
Sid Roth: What about that fear of stroke?
Mark Virkler: I'm sure that demon would have tried to convince me that I was going to die of a stroke: and I have zero fear of stroke at this point: absolutely zero fear.
Sid Roth: Okay, so uh, y-you cast out many demons, but one time you bumped into a demon that you could not cast out! Tell me about that.
Mark Virkler: Well yeah, exactly. We had cast out thousands of demons from hundreds of people, and sometimes they come out easy, sometimes they come out hard. And this one gentleman, it was difficult. We'd spent an hour shouting at him saying, "In the name of Jesus, this demon come out", and the demon would manifest. The person would shake and vibrate: a gruff voice would say, "I'm not coming out of him". We'd say, "You are coming out. In the name of Jesus, every knee must bow, every tongue must confess. You're coming out", and the demon would not come out. And two or three of us spent an hour commanding him to come out, and I said, "God, I am so frustrated". Theologically this makes no sense because the Bible is crystal-clear that "Every knee must bow" to "The name of Jesus", and this demon did not bow. I have no idea why it didn't bow: I have no idea why it didn't come out. And because I am so theologically confused, I'm just going to set this area aside, because I'm lost. There's obviously stuff about the heart which I do not understand, and I cannot make this work.
Sid Roth: So for 10 years, he would have nothing to do with deliverance, until he went to a conference in Australia. And all of a sudden, he was getting some very unusual thoughts.
Mark Virkler: Well, my life had been getting more mucked-up as I would call it. I picked up some anger, and fear, and fear of rejection, and...
Sid Roth: I didn't know pastors did that!
Mark Virkler: I didn't either! I felt once I was ordained, I'd have no more sin issues. But, you know, I got fired from some jobs, and some people wounded me, and so I had wounds in my heart, and some demon said, "We can help you with those wounds", and so they magnified them. And here I am starting a 21-day tour, a speaking tour in Australia, and I'm feeling fear of rejection, rejection, anger: and I'm saying, "God, you know, I'm in no shape to minister". So I asked God, I mean a surgeon if his wife, who I'd heard did prayer ministry, if she would pray for me, and uh he said he'd check. And so the next day the two of them got together, and they spent 3 hours praying for me: and uh in those 3 hours she was amazing. They got about 20 demons out of me, which really made me feel better.
Sid Roth: Here's the bottom-line: how is your life different after that?
Mark Virkler: Well, the fear of rejection, the fear, the rejection, the anger, the hatred, the rage, all of that was gone: because what would used to happen, if I would get into a threatening situation, I would feel something rise up within me and grip me, and push me into a fear corner: and I was controlled by fear. And I'm convinced now that when something rises up within a person and grips them, and pushes them in a negative direction, that thing is a demon. And I have none of that kind of stuff within me anymore. There's nothing that rises up within me, grips me, and pushes me: I'm free.
Sid Roth: But when she prayed for you, she showed you 7 very supernatural prayers, and you've been praying this over people ever since. What type of results have you gotten?
Mark Virkler: We have gotten tremendous results. I would, as I looked at those 7 prayers, which I realize she was detaching the anchors that demons hung onto, and that's why the demons came out so easily.
Sid Roth: And the reason they stayed that one time you failed was because they actually are like attorneys: they had legal rights to stay.
Mark Virkler: Yeah. And so she would remove all the legal rights through these first 6 prayers, and the 7th prayer is to cast the demon out. And at that point it would come out easily without any pressure, without, because it's no longer attached to something within the individual.
Sid Roth: And just out of curiosity, when you would pray through normal deliverance, it would be hours, and they would yell and scream and fight. Do you see much of that now?
Mark Virkler: No, no. See, that's over with now, because now deliverance is usually maybe 2 or 3-minutes, using "In the name of Jesus".
Sid Roth: I like that!
Mark Virkler: I love it!
Sid Roth: Don't go away. We'll tell you some of these 7 supernatural prayers. Be right back.
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here with Mark Virkler, and I've got some good news for you: you do not have to live with that pain, emotional or physical. Uh Mark, what you found out, that there were 7 supernatural prayers.
Mark Virkler: Right.
Sid Roth: And when people systematically pray these prayers every legal right that these demons have, they're just dismissed: and then it's easy to set someone free. But the big question I have is how can a Christian have a demon?
Mark Virkler: Well that's a big question I had too, you know. And I initially didn't believe a Christian could have a demon, and for several reasons. One, is because the word "Demon-possessed" freaked me out. I said, you know, you can't be possessed by the Holy Spirit and possessed by an evil spirit.
Sid Roth: Right: yeah.
Mark Virkler: However, the Greek, in the New Testament, isn't "Possessed": the Greek is "Daemonion", which means "Demonized", which the literal definition is "Under the influence of", which is a totally different picture than "Possessed by". "Possessed by" means I am controlled, where "Under the influence of" says well there's some area of my flesh or soul that's under the control of something negative, even though in my spirit I'm controlled by the Holy Spirit. So that picture makes it more acceptable for me to say, yeah, there's a lot of parts of us. We've got souls, we got bodies: and maybe a demon's controlling one part out there, even while the Holy Spirit's possessing my spirit.
Sid Roth: You know, in the New Testament, I read about Jesus casting out spirits of infirmity, and people get healed.
Mark Virkler: Yeah.
Sid Roth: And the thing that you and I were discussing is can a Christian h-have a demon? Can a Christian be sick? Well, the latter you'd say for sure! Of course a Christian can be sick! Well does that mean they're demon, they're sickness-possessed? Demon-possessed? No! But does that mean they're "Demonized", as you pointed out?
Mark Virkler: Um hm: um hm.
Sid Roth: Of course!
Mark Virkler: Um hm: um hm.
Sid Roth: It's uh... Now do many Christians need deliverance?
Mark Virkler: Well my personal guess is we all need deliverance, because we've all been wounded. We walk through life, things happen: and when things happen, we put up walls. You know I put up walls and say, "That'll never happen again".
Sid Roth: What is a "Healed heart"? What is a "Wounded heart"?
Mark Virkler: A "Healed heart" I think is a heart that uh lives in "Faith, hope, and love now abide, these three", 1 Corinthians 13:13. So if I can look at an area, if you can look at every of life, like your marriage, and say, "I've got faith, hope, and love". Look at your health and say, "I have faith that I'm going to live into old age with vibrant health". Look at your finances and say, "I've got faith for my finances: I'm going to 'lend and not borrow'". I'll look at my children and say, "I've got faith, hope, and love there". So if in each of these areas you can say I've got, "I'm full of faith, hope, and love, and it's healed". But if you look at one of those areas and you say, "No, because I've got fear, doubt, and unbelief", then that's unhealed: that area is unhealed. So an unhealed heart would be any opposite of faith, hope, and love. Opposite of faith would be fear, doubt, unbelief. Opposite of hope would be hopelessness, despair, loneliness. Faith, hope love. Opposite of love is anger, hatred, rage. So those would all be heart wounds that demons could fill, and which we can now heal through deliverance prayer, through these 7 prayers.
Sid Roth: Well let's take a look at some of these prayers.
Mark Virkler: Um hm.
Sid Roth: Uh, uh for instance, the first one would be a prayer of uh breaking generational curses. What are generational curses, and uh why do they have to be broken?
Mark Virkler: Well the Bible says the sins of the parents are passed on down "To the third and fourth generation", so a lot of times the messes we have didn't start with us: they started with our parents, and they're coming down to us. So we can place the cross of Jesus between the generational sins and curses, and us. And i...
Sid Roth: I like that!
Mark Virkler: Yeah! I do too! And I would say to that person: picture yourself in your mother's womb, because that's where you picked up generational sins and curses. And picture that baby there: picture the cross of Jesus between that baby, and all the stream of energy flowing down towards it from the m-mom and the dad. And you just speak it: you say, "In the name of Jesus, I forgive my parents for giving to me generational sins and curses in the area of", whatever, anger, hatred, scorn, "And I command that to hit the cross of Christ Jesus, fall to the ground powerless at the foot of the cross: and I release that baby in the womb uh from these generational sins and curses. And I pray for the blessings of Calvary to cascade down over that baby, and I bless that baby with life, and I call that life to come upon that child".
Sid Roth: Give me an example, a real-life experience of someone that prayed them, and what happened to them.
Mark Virkler: Who broken generational sins and curses. I'm going to just read a testimony if I may, alright?
Sid Roth: Okay.
Mark Virkler: This is uh from a lady, uh, Kelly Shea, and uh she'd said, "I", here's her testimony: "I started having stomach problems whenever I drank anything with a certain ingredient in it. This hadn't always been the case, and I had no idea what triggered this new sensitivity: and it went on for about 2 years. I was going through the 'prayers that heal the heart' set, and uh there was a lesson about generational sins and curses: and uh, it mentioned that that could result in allergies. I knew there was adultery a few generations back in my family, so I prayed through breaking those generational sins. A few days later I was out with my friends. I ordered a drink, without thinking: and when I got home that night, I realized I wasn't sick. It was then that I thought about the results of the prayer. The allergy has never come back. Kelly Shea".
Sid Roth: Mm! That is wonderful. Now you prayed these supernatural prayers with many people. You conduct seminars, you have tapes, etc.
Mark Virkler: And what happens is as you, I mean as you're working through these, you feel lighter, and lighter, and lighter, and lighter, until you're free. A-and people feel that lightness. I feel the lightness: people who go through it, they feel the lightness. They come back...
Sid Roth: I actually feel a lightness as you're speaking this! But what about, let's take another one: "Ungodly soul ties". Most of you've never heard of this. But what are "Ungodly soul ties"?
Mark Virkler: A "Soul tie", um in the Bible you have an example of "The soul of David was knit with the soul of Jonathan knit", so they're tied together, two souls. So whenever you have a bosom buddy relationship or a covenant contract with a person, you have a "Soul tie". And if you have an ungodly soul tie, you're passing stuff from one person to the other. So if we get together and gossip about the government or people, then I'm pouring a toxic poison, into your spirit, and we have a soul tie, because we get to do it every week: you know, we just share negatives. So that would be one example of an ungodly soul tie.
Sid Roth: But you see, here's the most wonderful thing! When you attack all of these areas that the devil has strongholds, it's almost like you're covered in oil: and he goes to reach in, and it! We'll be right back after this word.
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here with Mark Virkler, and we're talking about such a fascinating area because most people I know, most Christians I know, in one or more areas of their life, they're not really free. I loved it what you said, Mark, that the comment that most people that go through this series have to say is, "I feel lighter".
Mark Virkler: Lighter: yep.
Sid Roth: And they are lighter!
Mark Virkler: They are.
Sid Roth: Uh let's talk about something that this is so important: breaking word curses.
Mark Virkler: Okay. Yeah, word curse. The Bible says, "Life and death is in the power of the tongue," and so I can speak life over myself, uh or you, and you can speak life over me: we can speak death over each other or over ourselves. And some word curses have been spoken by another person, and some have been spoken by me over my life, and they have power: they have spiritual power which needs to be broken. So...
Sid Roth: Uh I would imagine the word curse that would be the worst of all would be when you speak a curse over your life, not even realizing it's a curse!
Mark Virkler: Yeah! Yeah! Maybe I'll say, "I'm never going to get healed of this sickness".
Sid Roth: Hm!
Mark Virkler: Well that's a word curse. I have just said the power of God cannot meet me, and will not meet me: and I'm going to stay in this prison, alright. And so I mean that...
Sid Roth: And "I'm going to always have a bad marriage", "I'm going to always have a bad relationship with my children".
Mark Virkler: Yeah! Or "I'm never going to get a job: not in this economy. I can't get a job"!: those are all word curses which need to be broken. You need to say, "In the name of Jesus, I break the power of that word curse: that it's a lie, and it has no authority and power in my life. And the truth is," and then you go to the Bible and the Holy Spirit and say, "Lord, what is the truth"? Alright, the truth is, well "I've blessed you! I've blessed your hands, I've blessed your eating basket, I've blessed your bonds, I've blessed everything you touched"!: that's one truth! Alright, so you start speaking truth, which speaks life then, instead of speaking death over you.
Sid Roth: Did you, out of curiosity, ever find out if you cursed yourself, or someone cursed you, and get rid of it?
Mark Virkler: Yeah! I've spoken several word curses over myself, and the Lord's told me to stop. One was concerning my abilities academically, because when I was in high school and college, I was straight B's all the way through. No B's: straight B student.
Sid Roth: Um hm.
Mark Virkler: So I used to confess, "I have a B-level brain", and God said, "Mark, don't ever say that again". He said, "Now that you are anointed with the Holy Spirit", he said, "You have a triple-a brain". He said, "You are brilliant. And you say", "From now on you say, 'I am brilliant, through the anointing of the Holy Spirit'". And so he took me out of a box, a prison I'd built for myself, saying, "I am limited: I cannot perform", and he said, "Don't ever say that again", and gave me a new platform where I can now be much smarter than I would have been.
Sid Roth: Now another one. A-and there's no such thing as "The most important one" because Mark, as you've explained, if you leave a couple out, uh you then allow room for the demonic to influence you.
Mark Virkler: Well, you know, I was at a seminar last weekend, and the lady, you know, I was praying with a lady. And she said, "You know, I went and I got prayed for, and I broke this ungodly belief", you know, and she said, "I felt better, but this mess is still there". And I said, "Well, that's because you prayed 1 of the 7 prayers, and 1 of the 7 gave you a level of release. And if you'll go home and pray the other 6, pray the whole bundle, you will not get a level of release: you will get a full, complete release".
Sid Roth: E-explain to me the "Prayer of inner healing".
Mark Virkler: "Inner healing" is allowing Jesus to walk into some painful scenes, and show up, and do whatever he wants to do. And this one lady... You want a story?
Sid Roth: Please.
Mark Virkler: This one lady who was a pastor's wife, she had a child who was stillborn, and um, and she was broken-hearted: she was traumatized. Uh she sees the dead baby and this picture is powerful. And even though in her mind, theologically, she knows the child is in heaven: the picture is, the baby dead. And whenever you have a competition between a picture and an idea, that picture wins. We say "A picture is worth a thousand words", so the Lord gave her a new picture. He took her in an open vision: he took her to heaven, and uh he walked over to a bassinet in heaven, and he reached down, picked up a little baby, and he gave it to her, and he said, "This is your baby". And she held the baby, she caressed it, she nursed it. She counted all of its fingers and toes, and spent some time with it, and then the Lord said, "Now it's time to go back". And so she gave the baby back to him, he put it back in the bassinet, and took her back to earth. But that's "Inner healing": that's allowing Jesus to walk in the scene, and give you a new picture.
Sid Roth: You know now that she had this new picture, what difference did it make?
Mark Virkler: Well, now she's no longer devastated over the fact that she's lost a child: this child is dead. That devastation, that pain is gone, because now there's a hope there. She knows the child's in heaven, with Jesus: she sees that. And what you see changes your heart.
Sid Roth: Well, you know, there must be a lot of women in this country that have had abortions, and uh they have found that women that have abortions carry that trauma the rest of their life.
Mark Virkler: Mm.
Sid Roth: Is there a way of getting rid of that trauma the same way?
Mark Virkler: Well yeah. I definitely would say we want to go through these 7 prayers and we just uh, and inner healing is one of them. You want to ask Jesus to show up, and say, "Lord, you know, you were there when this thing happened, you know. You were there in the room, because you're Emmanuel, 'God with me': you were there": so where were you at, what were you saying, what were you doing. And then just fix your eyes on Jesus: look around the room, see where he was, and he will appear, in the picture in your mind. And then you invite the Holy Spirit to take it over: and say, "Jesus, move freely": and tune to flow, and the scene will come alive. And Jesus will come, and he will put his arms around you and hold you: uh he will speak loving words. Spontaneous thoughts will come to you, which is the voice of Jesus talking to you: and spontaneous pictures will come, which is a vision of Jesus. And you can just write down that flow of spontaneous thoughts and pictures. And...
Sid Roth: Now explain to me what that means exactly, "The spontaneous flow of thoughts and pictures".
Mark Virkler: Yeah. Well, see, my thoughts are analytical thoughts. I say, "Hm, 2 + 2 is 4". Now spontaneous thought is a flowing thought: it comes to me, like I'm driving down the road and suddenly, "Pray for somebody". I said, "Oh yeah! Pray for s": he just dropped in, and it came from flow. And the Bible says, "'out of my innermost being shall flow rivers of living water'. This he spoke by the spirit". So when you and I want to tune to the spirit, we tune to flow: flowing thoughts, flowing pictures, or spontaneous thoughts and spontaneous pictures. They come with a life of their own: I don't think them up myself.
Sid Roth: Give me, briefly, one person that comes to mind that prayed these 7 prayers and what happened.
Mark Virkler: Well, one gentleman we prayed for, he had uh chemical sensitivity, and really strong is problem with it. And uh we prayed: and when we were done praying for him, he saw the Lord, in the vision, come, minister healing: set him free. And uh, and I've checked back with him over the years, this was like 10-15-years ago, and he said, "It's totally gone". The chemical sensitivity is totally gone, and has not returned.
Sid Roth: Uh you know Mark, you were talking about uh earlier a fear of stroke. Uh th-there's so many of you that have fears, and fear is a symptom of a wounded heart.
Mark Virkler: It's the fact that satan is now speaking spontaneous negative thoughts to me, rather than the Holy Spirit speaking spontaneous positive thoughts.
Sid Roth: And how "Can two walk together, unless they be agreed"?
Mark Virkler: Exactly: exactly. So we need to kick out satan, kick out all of his spontaneous negativity, and all of his legal rights, remove those, and grant the Holy Spirit a chance to minister.
Sid Roth: So has anyone taken your course and it not worked, that you know of?
Mark Virkler: Not that I know of. I mean I've had probably hundreds of people email me and tell me, "This changed my life".
Sid Roth: Now but well when you've prayed with people these same prayers, what have you observed?
Mark Virkler: I've observed that people got healed, alright. Just radically healed in many um different areas, because I've prayed for hundreds and hundreds of people. And there's always been a lightness: they feel lighter and lighter. Allot of tears usually, because when Jesus walks into a scene, and does what he wants to do, it just touches your heart.
Sid Roth: I understand, because Jesus himself walked into a scene, the worst day of my life before I knew the Lord, and I experienced a realm where if I wanted to worry, I could not worry.
Mark Virkler: Hm.
Sid Roth: What a realm to live in. The way you get in this realm is by healing your heart, by experiencing this lightness, by experiencing this freedom. But the "Step one" is to experience what it's like to have your sins forgiven: to be clean: to be as holy in God's sight as Yeshua is, as Jesus is. That can only be if you make Jesus your Lord. In your words, get right with God now. Do it, right now.