Sid Roth - I Heard Jesus Knocking. What I Heard Next Blew Me Away
Sid Roth: Welcome, Holy Spirit. You are so welcome in this place. We're so glad Your Presence is here, and all things are possible in the Presence of God. My guest, Kellie Copeland, the daughter of Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, had a front-row seat observing word-of-faith teaching. Kellie wasn't satisfied. She knew there had to be even more. Kellie, tell me what your life was like at home.
Kellie Copeland: My parents, I just have to just praise and bless God for putting me in their household because I grew up with such a foundation of the Word, of faith in His Word, the integrity, Sid, of the Word of God, that if His Word says it, then we shape our life like that. We live like that. We breathe like that, and then we receive what He said about us by faith and then put that in our mouth.
Sid Roth: You have no idea how blessed you are because I had to be 30 before I even knew who Jesus was, but most Christians, they don't have a foundation like that.
Kellie Copeland: It gave me such a firm foundation of my identity in Christ, my identity in Him, my... because this is... Whatever this says is who we are. Well, that gave me... and you asked me about my parents. We lived His Word, breathed His Word. There's nothing else.
Sid Roth: Give me one example that you remember as a young person at home that really impressed you as a young person.
Kellie Copeland: Well, you know when your kids ask you for something and it's a little out of the price range, it's a little out of the budget? I remember I wanted a boat, so my dad said, "You guys need to believe God for that". I was 6. My brother was 4. We wrote out some indiscernible agreement with God and stuck it on the fridge because dad said, "That's your faith project". And then I wanted a horse. He's like... Well, he didn't say, "No, we don't have a place to keep it". And my point is that he never said, "No". It didn't matter what the budget was. "That's a great faith project. We'll agree with you". And when we would set our faith, find a Scripture... We'd have to find a Scripture. We'd write it out. "Heavenly Father, we believe we receive a boat, the perfect boat". And so 2 weeks went by, and this man... And he didn't have one like he was out telling people that. Nobody knew that but our little family. Nobody even barely knew who he was, but this man called, and he said, "Brother Copeland, I'm so sorry. God has been on me for 2 weeks to give you my fishing boat". So this man gave us his fishing boat. But then a few days other, this other man calls. And he said, "Brother Copeland, God has been on me about giving you my cabin cruiser". Little lake cabin cruiser. Now, I'm 6. My brother is 4, and dad was like, "Lord, two boats"? And the Lord said, "Go look at their agreement," and so it said, "the perfect boat". And so my dad said to us, "What were you thinking? What is the perfect boat"? "We want you out on the lake so nobody can find you. We want to spend the night out there. We want to ski. We want to fish, and we want to do". And the Lord told him that took two boats. But that's just how I thought life was, and it really is that simple. We mess it up, but that was my life.
Sid Roth: But you have to stay like a little child...
Kellie Copeland: You do.
Sid Roth: ...even as you become an adult in your belief in God's Goodness.
Kellie Copeland: But that's hard when you become adult...
Sid Roth: Yeah.
Kellie Copeland: ...when you start getting hit, smacked.
Sid Roth: You went through a whole lot of traumas and trials in your life.
Kellie Copeland: I did. I did, but I kept, and I have always kept, that assurity, maybe because the Word is so firm in my life. I think I've gained so much about the Spirit and His Presence and His Comfort and His Love and some of those things that I didn't have in my emotional space, but the authority that I had knowing the Word, if people... if you are not sure about what God has for you or what He bought and paid for, for you, dig into His Written Word and get that...It's really legal. It becomes so legal, like, "That's mine". And so I had been through divorce, and it kind of hit me really sideways because nobody ever had been ugly to me. I just had this great life where my prayers get answers and my things I stick on the fridge get done. But you said something when you said I wanted more. If I could be honest with you, Sid, I didn't know, I didn't think about there being more. If you said, "Do you have all of God, or is there more"? Everybody would say, "Of course there's more". But how we behave, how we are hungry or not hungry for more, it's more about how we're behaving than what we think we know. I tell you, when I thought there must be more is when I was laying face down, trauma, hurt, the middle of a divorce. I knew I had to have more. When all my prayers were answered and things were great, I didn't really think about more. But I cried out to the Lord, Sid, and I just said, I remember just, I'm bawling because I was so hurt. And I said, "I think there's something wrong with my soul, something in my emotions or something". And I don't know anything about that because my life of faith made me strong, especially I think in my mind and my will. My mind was set on the Word. I think that made my will strong, and my emotions were, in an effort to just believe this and not be led by emotions, I would just push my emotions aside and just say, "No. I'm living this". And that did work for many years. He will show us, and of course there's something wrong with us because we don't have it all. And like a little child, He looked at me in the eyes. I'm going to look at you like that. He said, "I'm going to send you people to listen to". I felt like a kindergartener. "And I need you to listen to them not for what they don't know that you know. I need you to listen to them for what they know that you don't know". And when He said it, Sid, I thought, "That seems so obvious. How are we ever going to learn anything if we're not willing to hear something we don't already know"? And so He did that. He started sending me people. I started listening to you. I started listening to this person, this person, this person, and it would repair places of error because it was something I didn't know. And it would get rid of the lie that the enemy had planted, and it began to make me stronger and stronger, and that's how I saw what God was doing, too. He began to show me the strategy of bringing the groups of the Body of Christ together. Sid, I saw it in 1 Corinthians 12. That is the chapter where it talks about receiving from each other the gifts. Everything in you, I receive. You've already changed my life. And then chapter 13 is about giving to each other of what's in your gift, and that is how we will come to the place where Satan has no foothold in us.
Sid Roth: What did you learn? What was the first step to get rid of these emotions that were crippled?
Kellie Copeland: A lot of the things I could talk about now, I look back and see what God did, and He's taught me about the soul. But He did tell me, He said, "You have given Satan real estate". That made me mad.
Sid Roth: I was going to say...
Kellie Copeland: I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no". Those lies, the lies in our soul, not our spirit. Our spirit is renewed, but our mind, we know it has to be transformed. By the renewing of our mind, our insides our transformed. Our life is transformed. So when He said that, I realized there were lies planted, and the root lie, the abandonment, I was not even 3 years old, and not... that's a long kind of story, but we were in a car wreck, and the Lord had to show me as an adult, in all of this trouble, he showed me where that abandonment had come in during that car wreck, and my family almost died. It looked like I was okay, but Satan had told me a lie, that I was abandoned. So all the behaviors of that went with me into adulthood, even though I wasn't, so that's where emotions work.
Sid Roth: You were helped with the Word of God, but you were sabotaged through your emotions. Is that right, what you're saying?
Kellie Copeland: That's right. They're immature. We all have a place, I believe this is what God is refining right now. We have this place where we don't know something, and that's where Satan is going to come in at you. He wasn't coming at me where I knew. He wasn't coming at me where I was strong, and God didn't make me weak. He just didn't give me all the... I don't have everything of Him operating in my... All the truth about Jesus is vast. In those weak places, He's here to restore, remove stuff, like the sycamine tree. They were talking about bitterness and unforgiveness, and they said, "Say to the sycamine tree, 'Be plucked up.'" And that's what He showed me that day. When I saw that about the abandonment, it was in a service, when He literally talked to my heart, and He said, "That's where"... My dad was telling the story of the wreck, and He said, "That's where abandonment came in". And so in that moment, I didn't know what I was doing until later. I looked back on it, and God taught me that we can do this. I said, "That's a lie". And I said, "Abandonment, I speak to you, and I command that lie to be gone," like the plucking up. But then the Word talks about when you say to the mountain, "Be removed," you have to put the Word in there. So the Lord showed me, and what I did that day and the Lord showed me later was, I began to speak the Word. That's not the truth. The abandonment is not true. The truth is I do have a good earthly father who would never abandon me, and he never did, but I have a Heavenly Father who would never abandon me. So when we put the truth in...
Sid Roth: So even if you...
Kellie Copeland: ...that hole...
Sid Roth: Even if you had an earthly father that would have or did abandon you, the truth is higher than the earthly father. It's your Heavenly Father.
Kellie Copeland: But those things, those lies are the things that create double-mindedness that the Bible talks about. We want this. Our conscious mind is believing this, but somewhere in there, it's saying, "God has abandoned you," or, "You're abandoned," or, "You're not loved". So when we remove that and we put the truth in there, it goes down as deep and as far back as that origin lie does. But in that moment, God let me see that I had space that was taken up in my emotions was something that was not from Him, and He began to deliver me. And when He removed the abandonment and things out of my life, I had more room for Him. So it wasn't just that I got rid of what was of Satan in my emotions, but He filled that space. He filled that up with Himself. I really think that is a supernatural process, but I met the supernatural when He began waking me up. The fact that, Sid, that He would talk to us personally, that's so supernatural.
Sid Roth: When we return, Kellie will explain how the Messiah began waking her with messages that drew her into intimate relationship with God. Be right back.
Sid Roth: What caused the, "I think He's speaking to me," to really feeling you're hearing clearly? Was there anything that triggered that?
Kellie Copeland: Well, just a hunger. I had always wanted to be that person who would get up early and have the hour. My mom was like that. She'd get up, no matter what time she had to get up, she was up an hour early to be with the Lord, and I always wanted to be that person. And I would just not have it in me sometimes. I had four kids at home, little kids all at the same time, and so as I grew older and in this time of hurting that the Lord was changing me and changing me from the inside out, I just wanted to spend time with them, but just to be honest, I wasn't making the quality decision. My dad talks about a quality decision, that you make it and you don't turn back from it. I love that, but it was not in me in the moment, and so I just gave the Lord this very weak invitation, and He took it. And I said, "Lord, I have to get up at 6," so I'd set my clock for 6, not earlier. I'd say, "I have to get up at 6, but You can wake me up earlier if You want to," and I just started saying that. Two weeks I said that, and after 2 weeks He woke me up. And I had been hearing knocking at the door. I'd get up and go to the door. Nobody was there. I'd go back to bed. In the middle of the night, I'd hear knocking, and on about the fourth time, I was like, "That's You"! I felt like Samuel. "That's You! You are literally knocking on the door of the church," I guess. It was like Revelation was happening to me.
Sid Roth: Now, tell me a few things when He woke you up, what He said.
Kellie Copeland: Well, that one day I went in there, and I was concerned over something that was coming up and just been talking to Him about that, but I still had this reservation and some fear in me about a situation, and He started talking to me about that. I got up that morning. I went into the living room, and I sat down, and I got my journal and paper, pen. I'd never really done this kind of journaling, but He was talking to me so quickly, so... It was stern but loving and factual and very tutorial almost, but yet inviting. And He started talking to me about the throne room, and it was long, and I put these conversations that I had with Him because I wrote them down, and then I wrote what I said down, and I put some of those in this book. And I had to divide it into three. I thought it was a lot. He talked to me about that I had not been in the inner court. He said, "You've been in the outer court," and He talked to me about why. He said, then, He said, "I will invite you. You will not go into the Father's Presence, into the throne room, but with me, but I will lead you in there". And He said, "And I will share with you the protocol of the court". It's always love. He talked about the throne room. He talked to me about the trip that I was supposed to make that I was concerned about. He gave me the words of mission. He said, "I want you to go on My behalf". I no longer had fear about it. So he talked to me about strategy. He talked to me about me. He talked to me about my identity, and I can even look back on that now and see more. There was so much in there He was prophesying and telling me. I didn't understand. I just knew I was shaking by the time He got done with that encounter, and it made me want to come back. And so my encounters, I call them encounters, with Him, the days between got shorter and shorter where I just had to go back, and I had to go back, and I had to hear from Him. And then one day I was saying, "Lord, I'm so sorry that I have not been with You this week". He goes, "Are you kidding? We've talked all day every day". I just wasn't sitting on my couch anymore. It had become...His Presence with me had become just so natural that I even said, "Excuse me," in the house by myself when I sneezed.
Sid Roth: It seems so simple what you're saying.
Kellie Copeland: It's so simple.
Sid Roth: Most people would say, "Well, that never happened to me. Am I Swiss cheese"? Look in the camera, and give them some advice so it will happen to them.
Kellie Copeland: Well, you heard how wimpy my invitation to Him was. You give Him a little crack. And honestly, I guess really my heart cracked open as I was hitting the floor in my trauma, but those weak places that we like to hide from God are the very open doors that He can come into our heart and come into our life and fill us with himself removing the garbage out of our mind, will and emotions that are there. And it's just a crack that he needs. It's just a moment of, "I need more. I'm ready to learn. I'm ready to see You. I'm ready for you to heal me". I do believe, Sid, that we are in that time that the Bible calls it shaking. Jesus told Peter, "Satan is trying to sift you". So I see it as such a dual thing. Satan wants us to think he's got us in a wilderness time we can't get out of. There's a sifting that Satan wants to do in our life. He wants to shake us up. He wants to mess us up. But on the other hand, God is shaking us, shaking loose from everything that's not Him. He is sifting what's of the enemy out of us. So my point in all that is, we just need to get our eyes on Him and what He's doing and get our eyes off of what we see the enemy is doing and let him take us into that wilderness. He wants us in a wilderness, not to be hurt. He wants us to talk. He wants to talk to us in the... If you look at all the places of wilderness in the Bible, Jesus went in the wilderness. The children of Israel went in the wilderness. Hosea, in Hosea, that's a huge part of the wilderness to talk to them. And can I talk about that, that...
Sid Roth: Please.
Kellie Copeland: I want to just read that Scripture to you because it says, "Therefore, behold," this is Hosea, "I will allure her, bring her into the wilderness and speak kindly to her". If that doesn't describe what He did for me, and He says, "It's so simple". He's making the invitation. He's alluring you right now, and it says, "I will then return her vineyards to her and transform the Valley of Trouble into a gateway of hope". That's on Him, not me.
Sid Roth: There are people that are watching right now that are smiling on the outside and crying on the inside. First thing you have to do, very first, is have your own experience with God, not Kellie's...
Kellie Copeland: That's right.
Sid Roth: ...not mine, not my guests', your own experience with God. He loves you as much as any guest you have ever seen on my show or any other, as anyone that's ever lived. I want you to repeat out loud this prayer, and mean it to the best of your ability. "Dear God, I've made many mistakes in my life for which I'm so sorry. God, I command in Jesus' name the fear that has come into my life as of this second it goes in Jesus' name. I ask you, Jesus to live inside of me, be my Savior and my Lord. I love you, Lord. Give me my own experience with You. Amen". Kellie, there's so much that God has put into you, so much you can help people with. I want you to pray for the people watching that are hurting like you hurt to be as healed as you are going through right now.
Kellie Copeland: Well, right now I just want you to position yourself for that. Our positioning for Him to minister to us and heal us is not one of begging. It's not one of striving. It's one of simplicity. That place of the wilderness, it just... That word, wilderness, even means, "A place to feed your flocks," like a pasture. So I want you to just lay down. There's such a fire on me right now. There's such a fire in your room right now, and that fire, God is just... You can sense His presence right now. And I want you to just kind of lay down on the inside, and just say, "All right, Jesus. You are my shepherd. By my shepherd". Lord, I just thank you for the people right now that are ready to lay down everything they are at Your Feet, everything they are good at, everything they're not good at, everything they have going on that's wonderful in their life and every place of hurting or shame or trauma or disappointment. All of that sickness, lack, we just lay it at Your Feet right now, and we invite You to speak to us. We invite You to shepherd us. We invite You, and we give You, as You said in the beginning of Your Ministry on Earth, and in Revelation You made it clear: "If any have ears to hear, let him hear". We receive Your Words, and we give You a hearing ear, and I thank you, Lord Jesus. Just pray this with me, "Thank you, Lord Jesus, for taking my life and shepherding me unto life in You, in Jesus' Name. Thank you, Lord".