Sid Roth - One of the Greatest Miracles of the 20th Century
Sid Roth: I knew a woman by the name of Kathryn Kuhlman and she had one of the greatest miracle ministries the world has seen in almost 2000 years, and she said the miracle you're about ready to hear was one of the greatest miracles of the 20th century. I want you to see what happened.
Delores Winder: I was in a body cast for 14 years, four fusions, one through the front, the other three through the back, two cordotomies to kill the pain. So this side of my body was numb from here down, this side from here down. Two weeks before I was healed my husband and I made my funeral arrangements.
Sid Roth: Sid Roth back here. Welcome to my world where it's naturally supernatural. My guest, Delores Winder, and who's our friend over here, Delores?
Delores Winder: Well it was a friend for a lot of years.
Sid Roth: It held you together. Explain exactly what was wrong with your body.
Delores Winder: I had, first of all, three vertebras that deteriorated and then a deterioration crushed the spine. Then it got across the hips. They aged my boned when I was 31 as someone in their mid-70s. I was not healed until I was 48. So I wore a body cast all that time. This was a pretty new one. This is one they made me because they learned how to work with plastic.
Sid Roth: So this was like to hold you together to stop your whole body from deteriorating.
Delores Winder: Yes.
Sid Roth: Was there anything medical science could do?
Delores Winder: No.
Sid Roth: What was the condition called?
Delores Winder: Well they named it pseudo arthrosis, which is only the false old aging process and I went into the false old aging process at the age of 29. At 31, my bones aged out of someone in their mid-70s. And they did a spinal fusion, and it lasted a year and a half, and then it broke, and I had to go back and have another one done. And when they did the second one, they had sent me back to Pennsylvania to my doctor who did the first one, because they sensed there was something drastically wrong with the bone. So got back there and he said, "I don't know what it is, but when I took some bone out I could put in the palm of my hand and mash it". So it was very dry, very brittle. He did the second fusion. I was in a body cast then and then I lived in a body cast for almost 19 years.
Sid Roth: Now you adopted a young son.
Delores Winder: Yes. Yes.
Sid Roth: And I guess he never...Was never able,
Delores Winder: No, no you were able to bounce him or...
Delores Winder: No, no throw him up in the air.
Delores Winder: No, no the...We got him at the time between my first and second fusion. I was in a body brace at that time knowing I would never come out. But because we had a foster son who did so well in our home the judge said I could give her 12 kids. So we got our adopted boy. He was given. He was a gift from his mother to me. And then I realized right after our adoption was final that my fusion was broken. Intense pain set in. I could hardly move. And as soon as we moved to Texas I had to go in and see the doctor.
Sid Roth: Medical science was pretty good. Wasn't there anything they could do to reverse this?
Delores Winder: No. Everything was in the bloodstream making healthy bone, but the bone would not take the nourishment. So there was nothing, and the doctors told me when they realized what really was happening, they told me, we'll help you through as much as we can. It's going to be a long and a painful time of dying, but we'll help you through.
Sid Roth: Now you were a Christian at the time.
Delores Winder: Yes.
Sid Roth: Didn't you believe God for a miracle?
Delores Winder: No.
Sid Roth: Why?
Delores Winder: Because miracles didn't happen today. Miracles were for the apostolic age. That was what I was always taught. That's what I believed. But later the Lord said to me, "You had my word and read it. Why didn't you believe it"? Kathryn Kuhlman said to me, "Delores, did you truly believe the Bible was the Word of God"? And I said, "Yes, totally and completed". She said, "No you didn't. You believed about that much of it. You didn't believe the rest". We put into account in the denomination I grew up in, and many denominations because we worked in the mall, that this was the apostolic age. It was the age of miracles. Something like this could not happen.
Sid Roth: Okay. Your pain is unbearable. You're hanging in there for dear life because of your son.
Delores Winder: That's right.
Sid Roth: You don't want to leave only because of him.
Delores Winder: Yes.
Sid Roth: But what's going on?
Delores Winder: Well see, when the bone deteriorates, the what they call bone sludge goes into the kidneys, starts affecting the kidneys. But before that, my lungs got bad from being in the body cast all the time and getting pneumonia every year. And so I had breathing problems, stomach problems, hiatal hernia. And then when they were doing the one spinal fusion my heart gave out and they had to restart my heart. I had a heart problem after that.
Sid Roth: Okay. There is and you fell and you hurt your neck, and so you had a neck brace.
Delores Winder: Yes.
Sid Roth: The body cast.
Delores Winder: Yes.
Sid Roth: But things were so bad that they did something only for terminal cases, like when they do this with the mind, the brain, it's called a lobotomy. There's no reversal.
Delores Winder: Right.
Sid Roth: They literally burned out your nerves?
Delores Winder: Nerve centers. They go into the base of the brain where the nerve centers are and they burn out the area that they want to deaden completely.
Sid Roth: To stop the pain.
Delores Winder: Remember, 32 years ago they didn't have all the medicine they have now. Morphine was it and when morphine would not hold the pain any longer they decided it was time to do this. Three doctors have to certify you're terminal before they can do it because it cannot be reversed once they burn out the nerve centers. And they would take a diaper pin. I had to be awake when they did that. They gave me tranquilizers, but I had to be awake because I had to be able to tell them when I could not feel anymore. And they would run this pin into my feet. When my right foot, the first one, came up, they would run the pin in to see how far it would go when I wouldn't feel anything. And they did that up to my neck level. So I had no feeling on the right side up to my neck level. Then less than a year later they did the left side, but they could only come up the waist because my heart and lungs were too bad for me to automatic breathe. So I still had the pain here.
Sid Roth: This is a horrible way to live. Find out what happens when she sees miracles on television. Don't go away. We'll be right back to it's supernatural. We now return to it's supernatural.
Delores Winder: Now I never believed in instantaneous healing. I believed in the power of prayer. I believed God could heal according to Delores Winder. I could get a little better and a little better. But I wasn't. I was getting worse and worse, and worse.
Sid Roth: Well I'm so glad that God doesn't heal according to Delores Winder. Delores, the worst thing the doctors said to you near the end.
Delores Winder: Well they took me in one more time to see if there was something else they could learn from my case. And my orthopedic surgeon had become a dear friend in the midst of all the taking care of me. And they called a new neurosurgeon in who had never seen me to see if there was anything they missed or anything they could still do, or they could still learn from this other people. And I was laying in the hospital. He came in and he sat down, and I said, "What's wrong"? And he said, "Delores, it's over". By this time the bones had pulled loose. I had one bone through the skin. I had an open sore for seven months with that bone through the skin, and I weighed less than 73 pounds. And I looked at him, and he was crying. And I said, "Why are you crying? I'm happy. I can go home now".
Sid Roth: You can get out of the pain.
Delores Winder: Yes. I can get out of this. And not only me, but my family, too.
Sid Roth: Okay. How about this woman that comes by and has the nerve to change the channel on the dial, don't you change your channel, to change the channel on the dial, and there is a woman who says something like, "I believe in miracles because I believe in God". What did you think when Kathryn Kuhlman came on?
Delores Winder: Well when she changed my channel and this red-headed woman came out on the platform, floating along and saying, "I believe in miracles," I looked at her and I said, "Who is that"? She said, "That's Kathryn Kuhlman". And I said, "Turn that off". She said, "Don't you watch her"? I said, "No, turn it off". See, I came from Pennsylvania originally. I knew about Kathryn Kuhlman.
Sid Roth: But.
Delores Winder: I thought I did.
Sid Roth: But she heard a voice. Did you believe that was God when you heard the name Kathryn Kuhlman?
Delores Winder: Yes because I was praying. I said, "God, I need an answer for my son. I cannot die. I can't come home until you show me how you'll take care of Chris". And this all occurred then. And finally I said to her before she turned it off, before she left, she said, "What if you're keeping the door closed to God"? And I said, "By not watching Kathryn Kuhlman. That's crazy". She left, but the question stayed. And finally, I said, "All right, Lord, if I'm keeping the door closed by not watching her you'll have to tell me when it's on". Because by this time I was sleeping a lot, I was doped up a lot. And I'll watch her. Well instead of that I was waking up this day, a couple of days later and I heard Kathryn Kuhlman's name and I thought the woman who stayed with me was in the house. And I called to her. Now remember, I didn't have a voice. I only had a hoarse whisper because they went behind, they through my throat to do the second cordotomy, and it paralyzed my vocal chords. And in a hoarse whisper I called out to Gail and she didn't answer me. And when she came in I said, "Did you say something about Kathryn Kuhlman"? She said no. And I thought, wow, that had to be the Lord, so I have to watch her. But instead of that, you know God sets certain circumstances up for our life.
Sid Roth: So let's fast forward. You end up at a meeting where it's not even a healing miracle meeting.
Delores Winder: Methodist Holy Spirit conference.
Sid Roth: Okay. You're seated in there. You're not a happy camper.
Delores Winder: Well by this time I got what I came for. She said, "Tonight I'm going to introduce you to the Holy Spirit". And I'm sitting there thinking, I know the Holy Spirit. It's the Spirit of God. The next words out of her mouth was, "If you call on him, you don't him. He is God here with you". And suddenly everything in me was at attention, and I suddenly felt something, recognizing the Holy Spirit. And then I saw, I had my eyes closed because I didn't want to look at her. And I had my eyes closed, and behind my closed eyelids I saw Chris, our son, and a man standing on our front porch. And the man turned and looked at me, and said, "Tell Chris he need never walk in the house alone. Tell him to picture Jesus reach down and take my hand, and I'll walk in with him, but my name is Holy Spirit". And I knew it wasn't just for Chris. It was for Bill, too. I knew I had my answer. I didn't understand it.
Sid Roth: Bill is your husband.
Delores Winder: Yes. But I knew I had an answer. It was the Holy Spirit. How simple. God is here present with us. Jesus said I'll never leave you alone.
Sid Roth: You had your answer, but then you started seeing things that were bothering you, on stage.
Delores Winder: That's right. Well you see, the Methodists told her no healing. So everyone had gone home, all her workers. But suddenly she said, "Someone had an earache. If they come they'll receive their hearing". And I thought, what's going on now. And some people went up and they said, "I can hear! I can hear"! I got very frightened because suddenly it began to look like a side show up there. And I said to gail, "Get me out of here". My woman who took care of me took me. I said, "Get me out of here". But as I was trying to move so she could lift me up, my legs were on fire.
Sid Roth: Your legs are on fire.
Delores Winder: Yes. And it was just a shock to me I just looked at them. And I had to hold my lips between my teeth to keep from screaming, burning so bad. And I heard the voice of the enemy that night also. He said, "Aren't you glad you only wear your cast one hour a day now. That bone is pulled out. It's putting pressure on making your legs burn". And of course, I wasn't very logical at that time. My mind was pretty destroyed and so I believed that. And I would have gotten out of there and gotten home. And I met with board of doctors and ministers in California when I met with Kathryn Kuhlman, and they said, "If you would have gotten out of there, you would have probably gone home, crawled in bed and died".
Sid Roth: But a man walked up to you who happened to be a medical doctor.
Delores Winder: Yes.
Sid Roth: Who wasn't even supposed to be there.
Delores Winder: No.
Sid Roth: And he shows up. He walks up to you and what did he say to you?
Delores Winder: He said to me, "What's happening to you"? And I looked at him, and I said, "My legs are on fire". And he said, "Would you walk with me". And I looked at him, and I thought, he can get me out of here. He's walking around. He must know them, so he can get me out. And I said, "Just help me up". And as he did, he said, "Now what can I do for you"? And I said, "Put one arm around me and take this arm". And with my pain I could hold my cane in this hand because I couldn't feel. I can push and I can't walk, but I can shuffle. He started to walk out with me, and he said to me, "Have you ever had any surgeries"? And I said, "I've had four spinal fusions and two percutaneous cordotomies". And he stopped. Nobody ever knew what a percutaneous cordotomy is because they rarely did it.
Sid Roth: Only if someone is going to die.
Delores Winder: Yes, unless somebody, and three doctors have to certify that you are terminal before they can do it. And he looked at me, and he said, "You've had percutaneous cordotomies and your legs are burning"?
Sid Roth: Hold that thought. We'll be right after this word. Don't go away. We'll be right back to it's supernatural. We now return to it's supernatural.
Delores Winder: I still had pain until we got up on stage. And when you told me to walk across the stage and I came back and walked across again and came back, and you said to me, "Do you have any pain"? Suddenly I realized I didn't have a pain in my body.
Sid Roth: Hello. Sid Roth here with Delores Winder. And Delores, we were just watching that where you were talking about what was going on. So this medical doctor, Dr. Llewelyn says to you, "Isn't it strange that you had this surgery where the nerves were burned and you feel this fire in your legs". What did you think when you felt? You thought it was something bad, but it was really, were you beginning to think maybe you were healed?
Delores Winder: No.
Sid Roth: Had anyone in the history of humanity ever been healed when their nerve endings were burned out?
Delores Winder: Not anyone we know of.
Sid Roth: It can't be reversed.
Delores Winder: No. No one that we know of was healed from that.
Sid Roth: Okay. So you take your body cast off.
Delores Winder: He said something to me, though.
Sid Roth: What?
Delores Winder: He said, "Do you want to take it off"? And I said, "I've been one of these things over 15 years and I'm dying. Of course I want to take it off". And that was his answer to get me in the women's restroom to get my cast off me. And he and an usher carried me back in. But I wanted to say to that man, "Don't do this to people". Because I had no idea what he was doing telling me I could take my cast off. But I couldn't get the words out. And I looked at him, and I knew he knew something I didn't know. And so I let him take me into the restroom. Gail came in and got my cast off me. He and an usher carried me back in and Kathryn was waiting for him. And she said, "What do you have there, doctor"? And he said, "I've got a spine". She said, "Bring her here immediately". My first thought was, oh dear Lord, I'm being put in a side show, but at least nobody knows me. Got up on stage. She asked him to tell the people what was wrong. He said, "All I know is she's had percutaneous cordotomies and there's no way she can feel, but her legs are burning". Kathryn said, "Walk". And I could walk to the, I guess pastors were on the platform, took a hold of me to hold me up while he was at the mike. And I had to show her I couldn't walk. And I pushed my foot up out and it came up, and when it came down, I thought, I feel the floor. And the battle was on. I heard, "No, you don't feel the floor. You can't feel the floor". Well finally, it started in my fingertips and this feeling started going up my hand. And they said I started screaming, "I can feel! I can feel"! And I guess that's when my voice came back, too. And then they tell me I ran on stage.
Sid Roth: You ran?
Delores Winder: I ran.
Sid Roth: You have no nerves. You can't run. Your bones are all brittle. You can't run. Don't you understand, Delores, you can't do what you're telling me.
Delores Winder: Well I understood it, but somebody else didn't. And the Lord had me running on that stage. But after it was all over, Dr. Llewelyn said to me, met me out in the lobby, and he said, "Delores, I need to tell you about something. I need to caution you. The devil is going to try to tell you, you haven't been healed". I never heard a sermon on the devil. I was in church all my life. And I stepped back from him and I thought, what kind of people are these talking about the devil? Well God is so good. He connected me with a pastor and a doctor in California who sort of took care of me by phone. The doctor in California, Richard Casdorph, would know when something was happening with me, and he would call me. He would say, "What's going on? I know". I met him because he wrote the book "Real miracles", wanted to get my story in it because of the cordotomies, and he became a very dear friend, and still is to this day. But I had no understanding of healing. I never knew anyone who said they were healed.
Sid Roth: Yes, you might not have had any understanding of healing, but Delores had one of the greatest miracles of the 20th century. And guess what, that same presence that was on Kathryn Kuhlman is just pouring out of Delores. I want you to hear what Kathryn had to say about this great miracle. Let's go to that.
Kathryn Kuhlman: What you're hearing is the result of the power of God. This was an instantaneous healing and it wasn't in a miracle service. It was when the Holy Spirit magnified Jesus.
Sid Roth: I don't know about you, but I'm in awe over God. God is so good. And you know something? You told me that had you, you asked God why you had to go through over 19 years of this agony, and what did he say to you?
Delores Winder: A year after I was healed, he said, "I would have healed you 11 years earlier if you would have heard and obeyed". My mother wanted to take me to a Kathryn Kuhlman service and I could not believe she would even think of such a thing.
Sid Roth: And I'm reminded of what that woman said to you. Who knows? You might be closing the door. Well you're not going to close a door because I can feel your faith. It's just rising up. What's going on, Delores? What's going on?
Delores Winder: There's a woman who is in such depression and such agony. Her husband left her. She's got two children. She doesn't know what to do and I can feel her pain. Just reach out to the Lord. She'll just reach out to him. He's got a life for her that she has never had before. So please, reach out. The Lord will take that pain. Thank you, Jesus.
Sid Roth: Don't give up. Don't give up. That's what Delores is saying to that woman. But there are so many people right now that you're on the verge of giving up. Delores almost missed her miracle. The first time she missed it. But who knows if this isn't a door that's being open to you and healing is for today. This is the word of the living God. Bless the Lord o my soul and forget not all his benefits who has forgiven all of my sins and healed all of my diseases. There is power in the testimony. What you have heard, there's been, I don't know if you sense this, but there's been such a presence of God on what Delores has been sharing that it's pouring through your television set right now. And if you will just believe that you are already healed, the presence of God is there to do it, do something you couldn't do before. In Jesus' name be healed.