Sid Roth - Christians Spend BILLIONS on PSYCHICS
Sid Roth: My guest is Rick Joyner and he's part of Morningstar. When I think of Morningstar, I think of a number of things, Rick. I think of prophets, people that predict the future. I think about young people, but I also think about music. Where in the world did you get what is known as the Morningstar music from? How was it birthed?
Rick Joyner: Well I gave permission to some musicians to kind of go wild. I guess I should better say go free.
Sid Roth: Were they good musicians?
Rick Joyner: They were some of the world's best, but they felt like in church they could not use their gift. They were restrained. They had to be so held back. And I said, well if you play before the Lord we want your best licks. We want you to play better than anything you've ever done. So I kind of saidó...
Sid Roth: Why is it that we humans are so stuck in tradition? Well I believe, you know, a lot of what we call religion is a religious spirit that is not necessarily true worship. I think there is nothing more exciting than God, but nothing more boring than religion. And true, what we're called to is a relationship, not just religious rituals. And there is a religious spirit that I don't believe is the Holy Spirit that puts a great yoke of restraint.
Sid Roth: But this music is so different. It's sort of like, it's a culture shock for some people, but do young people like it?
Rick Joyner: They absolutely love it. I mean, that's why we draw so many young people.
Sid Roth: You were telling me you're on a religious television station in England and they estimated that something like 50 percent of the audience that listens to this music is are not non-believers in Jesus.
Rick Joyner: Well that was they estimated, and it's true. And we do conferences, when they first started that channel in Europe and all. We did conferences there. We were drawing sometimes 50 percent unbelievers to the conferences. We would have many, of course, become believers quickly, but they were drawn because of the music, I believe.
Sid Roth: Rick, you said there is a warning on this latest CD of yours. What's the warning?
Rick Joyner: Well we tell people not to listen to it when they're driving a car because so many get speeding tickets. They get, it's intense. This is pedal to the metal.
Sid Roth: Now you know, they do have TV in cars right now, so pull over to the side of the road if that's you. All right, tell me about this artist that's featured on here, Leonard Jones.
Rick Joyner: Leonard Jones is really, I believe one of the best guitarists in the world, and some of the best guitarists in the world, those are considered who Leonard is. He is truly remarkable, but he plays every instrument. He could sit first string violin in most symphonies. He's truly, I believe a musical genius and he plays with some of the best, and I believe he's writing some of the best stuff.
Sid Roth: Okay. Speaking of the best stuff, wait until you hear, this comes from Ecclesiastes, 'there is a time'.
Leonard Jones: There is a time, a time for every season a time. Everything that's under the sun, a time to give away, a time to sow a seed, a time to reap a harvest. A time to give him praise, time to stand in awe time to bow in worship!
Leonard Jones: There is a time, a time for every season a time. Everything that's under the sun, ohhhh. There's a time to live, there's a time to die, time to live a resurrected life! A time to live in peace a time to stand and fight a time to give a shout with all might! A time to give away a time to sow a seed, a time to reap a harvest. A time to give him praise, time to stand in awe time to bow in worship!
Sid Roth: Listen, that is good. That is good. Now I'm not in that younger generation even though in my heart I am. I'm not in that, but I like it. How about you, Rick, do you like it?
Rick Joyner: Oh I love it. I love it. It's great.
Sid Roth: Literally, you said no holds barred. Whatever God shows you, do it.
Rick Joyner: Yes. Do it with all your might, play your best licks and be free. And I believe where the spirit of the Lord there is liberty. I also believe we're serving the Creator who so creative and made every snowflake different, loves diversity, loves creativity. I believe creativity is one of the places where we can most touch the heart of God. There's got to be freedom for that creativity.
Sid Roth: I love it. There's a Hebrew word, 'hofesh' and it's freedom, and everything that we should do is when people think of religion they think of bars, not bars where you drink, bars in prison. But it shouldn't be that. It should be, in fact, you wrote a trilogy that they're about ready to make a motion picture. What is the name of that?
Rick Joyner: 'the final quest'.
Sid Roth: How many of those sold?
Rick Joyner: I had no idea. They estimated two million or more, but it is translated in so many languages. We haven't really kept up with it.
Sid Roth: Now you understand prophecy yourself. You've been caught up into the heavens. You wrote this bestselling series, was literally from a visitation that you had, and you understand prophecy. I want to find out what God is showing you as to where we really are in history, whether we're really in, as the orthodox rabbis say, the footsteps of Messiah. Be right back after this word.
Sid Roth: Sid Roth here with Rick Joyner and I know you're on the edge of your seat because he's not only a prophet, he's got a whole school of prophets. It sounds kind of like in the Jewish scriptures, Elijah and Elisha, and they had these schools of the prophets. What is God showing you as far as where we are in history?
Rick Joyner: Well you know, both Joel 2 and acts 2, it speaks about in the last days the Lord is going to pour out his spirit. It says, when he does the old men are going to dream dreams, young men see visions, and the sons and daughters are going to prophesy, and we're seeing a tremendous I believe- maybe unprecedented in history outbreak of dreams, visions and prophecy.
Sid Roth: Now as you and I know, you turn on TV, you can't help but see a psychic or call a certain phone number and it's a psychic network, and you were telling me last night how much money you spent on psychics in this country.
Rick Joyner: Well the last study I saw a few years ago was between 10 and 12 billion a year just in our country.
Sid Roth: Ten or 12?
Rick Joyner: Billion.
Sid Roth: I thought you said that.
Rick Joyner: Billion a year...
Sid Roth: Did you get that, billion a year.
Rick Joyner: Spent on psychics. But this was the most shocking part of all. They said over half of those was being, over half that was being spent by Christians who had been taught that God no longer speaks to them and they were turning to psychics.
Sid Roth: If you won't believe the truth, the Bible says, you'll believe a lie. Now a lot of people look at the truth and they say it's a lie, but you have to recognize you cannot have a good counterfeit unless it's a counterfeit of something authentic. I want the authentic. So the world is beginning to understand prophecy and you told me you sent some of your students out to secular business conferences to prophecy.
Rick Joyner: Well they asked us to come. There was a seminar in Florida just a couple of weeks ago from, it was a business seminar and they asked us, could we send some of our prophetic teams down, and we said sure. So we mobilized 30 of our kids to go down there and they set up teams. And anyone who wanted to go in and be ministered to by these teams could go, and it had a spectacular impact.
Sid Roth: Do you know if many of these secular business people became believers in the Messiah?
Rick Joyner: They said. We estimated about 150 became brand new believers.
Sid Roth: We have in America the fastest growing trend and there are some very godly people involved this. It is called 'seeker sensitive'. But what happened if we look at the Bible and we become whatever we did there we should do? Guess what kind of results we'll get? I mean, can you imagine going in to a secular business conference and prophesying to people? I understand even the White House under the Reagan years used psychics to find out what was going on. Now Nancy Reagan used to have, at least it was in the newspapers. But I think that people are getting wise and they say I don't want that cheap counterfeit that is only right 20 percent of the time, and I doubt if it's even right that much. I want the kind the Bible says that can't fail.
Rick Joyner: Well that's true. And there are, I believe both our government and many other governments, by the way, many governments have sought out the prophetic true, godly prophets, and I believe whenever you seek the Lord you will find him, and he's helped many people. There's a lot we couldn't say about that because we lose our ability to speak in certain situations. But I believe there is, there are many, many people that are starting to understand there is a counterfeit and there is a real. If they don't declare that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, he is the Messiah, he is the Lord of lords, don't go to him. They can be supernatural. They can have some supernatural information, but there's good and bad. There's good and evil.
Sid Roth: So what you believe is the prophet Joel says you'll know when it's the last days. Acts, it says the same thing. So because these gifts are coming to the surface and everything else going on in the world, would you agree with the orthodox rabbis, we're on the footsteps of the Messiah?
Rick Joyner: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I would like to emphasize, though, it's not so much the end as it is the beginning. It's maybe the end of this age and I think like we normally say to every year when it passes on new year's say good riddance to that year, we're going to say good riddance to this age. The King of kings has come back to rule and reign over the earth. He's going to restore the earth. The scriptures are clear. He's going, we have a greater hope than any New Age Movement, any Utopian Philosophy, anything. We've been given the greatest hope of all. He's going to come back and restore the earth. The lion is going to lie down with the lamb again. Children will be able to play with cobras. There's not going to be any more morning sickness, dying, pain, child abuse, hunger, any of these things. He is going to restore the earth.
Sid Roth: What are doctors going to do when there's no longer the cough I had...
Rick Joyner: They'll have to get a real job!
Sid Roth: What are they going to do? They're not going to be able to say, well the cause of your disease is stress. There's not any stress there. The Bible talks about people being translated, being in one city and then finding themselves in another city, just instantly. Has that happened to you?
Rick Joyner: That's happened to me.
Sid Roth: Tell me about it.
Rick Joyner: Well I was leaving Charlotte, North Carolina for Winston-Salem to go to a little home group, and this is years ago. And I was late leaving. It was about a two-hour trip and I was late. I was going to be late anyway, maybe 20, 30 minutes late. Then there was an accident on the interstate. I sat behind that for over an hour, and I figured one I got passed the accident I'm going to be there two hours late. I'll get there right at the end in of the meeting. And I said, well I'm going anyway. I said I was coming and I'm going to go. Now I had to take interstate 77 north, intersect to interstate 40 and go east for a while. So anyway, as soon as I get behind passed this accident, it's like all of a sudden I look up and I didn't recognize this truck, I didn't recognize the other vehicles around me and I thought I had maybe had fallen asleep or something. You know, you might drift off and it shocked me. And then I looked up and I'm at the exit on the other interstate, interstate 40. I thought thenó...
Sid Roth: How long should it take for that to occur?
Rick Joyner: At least an hour and 15 to 20 minutes, maybe an hour.
Sid Roth: You're telling me that you transcended time.
Rick Joyner: Absolutely. I was there instantly.
Sid Roth: Thinking of transcending time, we're going to take a break right now and when we come back we're going to find out how God knows ahead of time where we're going to live, and he as the exact place that we're to live in. Don't go away.
Sid Roth: Hello. Sid Roth here with Rick Joyner. Did you know that God has every hair on your head numbered, that not two sparrows fall to the ground without him being aware of it, and of how much more value are you. You have value and you have worth. Of how much value are you than the sparrow? My guest Rick Joyner, he's just man. I'm just a man. But we know God. We have intimacy with God and there is a prophet by the name of Bob Jones that wandered into your life and he described property that you were going to own. Explain that.
Rick Joyner: Well he had a dream and when I moved to North Carolina I came with a word I was to go to the mountains of North Carolina. Now I met Bob Jones through a friend of ours, Mike Bickel, and, oh man, he immediately started telling me details about my life and things that happened in my history that I didn't even know that I had checked out later that I found out to be true about my ancestors and stuff. But anyway, he later called me back and said he had a dream about me moving to the mountains of North Carolina and described the place in detail, exactly how far it was from where I was living at the time, which he got within two-tenths of a mile. We told him he's got to do better than that.
Sid Roth: Well according to the Bible you have to be a hundred percent, but I'll take within two-tenths of a mile in the whole world.
Rick Joyner: Yes, that's right. But he described it in detail. We later, Tom Hess who is a friend of yours was involved in this, and was given some land nearby, and he called me and told me he was supposed to give us.
Sid Roth: It's a small world. I was on his board and I was involved in that decision. But go ahead.
Rick Joyner: Is that right? Okay. So Tom calls me from Jerusalem and tells me about this land and he described it. It had some, the deed had some of the details that Bob had told me in his dream. And it was measured like they do in the mountains sometimes, from white rocks to an old oak tree. And bob, in his dream, had seen the land was measured from white rocks to an oak tree and details like that. He said there buildings in the middle with red roofs and a mountain with a rock face, antennas on it, and all this. Of course, that could have been a lot of places in North Carolina. But when we found it had every detail that Bob told us about us in his dream, including where the streams were on the land and things.
Sid Roth: But Rick, that is natural. I mean, there was a king of Syria that was upset with Israel because it's this king said, they know what I'm discussing in my bedroom. It was a prophet. And today, according to the new covenant, we're all supposed to be able to prophesy. Now I am so excited about this new property that you have. Was that prophesied also?
Rick Joyner: It was. And you know, we prophesy in part, we know in part, and Bob had all these details about the land, the property we were going to, the rectangular building. He saw a lot of other little details that worked out later. But he saw some damage to it, water leaks and damage, and all. We went looking all over Charlotte for old buildings and everything, almost bought some that we thought fit the description.
Sid Roth: Been there, done that. I understand.
Rick Joyner: And then we finally happened upon the property. It was exactly as Bob had described and now we're in it.
Sid Roth: And this is the old PTL headquarters that Jim Bakker had a vision to develop. And Rick, I don't have to be a prophet to know that that mantle has fallen upon you, and that's going to be even greater than Jim thought it was going to be. You've got that beautiful grand hotel and it is now grand. I mean, how did you end up getting that property, which Bob Jones saw in a vision, which you couldn't even find when you went in your peanut brain trying to find it.
Rick Joyner: Well it's interesting that Jim Bakker, when he got out of prison, he kind of spiritually bequeathed that property to us in a conference, publically, and were saying we don't want it. We don't want a hotel. We're in missions.
Sid Roth: He didn't know that. He could have given it to you.
Rick Joyner: Yes, but he spiritually said we think you're supposed to have it. So anyway, there were some reasons, some things I had to be a part of and some business things, and all, where if I had known that property was coming to me I could not have been a part of it. It would have been a conflict. We had no idea. So I think in a way the Lord hid it from us, where it was. And then at the right time it came into our hands for, we bought 60 million, well Jim paid 60 million to build it in the 1980.
Sid Roth: So it's more now even with the value of real estate.
Rick Joyner: Yes, I would think so. We bought it for 1.6 million?
Sid Roth: How come so cheap?
Rick Joyner: Well actually, they didn't think the buildings could be restored.
Sid Roth: Did you have a good Jewish attorney by the name of Ruach Hakodesh's, the Holy Spirit?
Rick Joyner: I did. The Jews tell me I made the Jew jealous.
Sid Roth: Well you're just being normal. Speaking of normal, very quickly tell me about the glory cloud that came in at a meeting you were at where you were speaking and everyone saw it.
Rick Joyner: Well this is back when we were first starting. We had a first worship and warfare conference, what we call 'the heart of David' and we had spent about eight hours that day, you know, taking some breaks in between. But it was at an intensity that we used to hope we could get to and maintain for 15 minutes. It was the most intense worship we had ever experienced and it had gone on and on. The last session had gone into hours and it kept building. It was the greatest worship I've still ever been a part of. And at the end, Leonard Jones was playing the last song and all of a sudden, it felt like a nuclear fire in the building. I felt burning inside. You know, nuclear is supposed to burn from the inside.
Sid Roth: Yes.
Rick Joyner: I felt like my insides were on fire and I watched two girls who were on the stage started grabbing like they were on fire. And then I'm feeling heat, fire and I watched one of these girls run and dive through the drum set, scared, terrified. And I turned around and looked, and there's this cloud, pillar of clouds right in the middle of the stage. My first thought is we've got a fire, because heat, fire, all of this. And the whole audience had been worshiping at the top of their voice, went instantly silent, started wailing, crying, and I'm looking all over at what's, and I think we've got a fire. And then I just said, the presence of the Lord is so intense, let the place burn. That was my thing. Everybody who was in there saw it except for a few.
Sid Roth: Everyone outside of a few saw this glory cloud. We're coming into the days like you read about in the scriptures where the glory is going to show up and everyone is going to be healed. I feel such a presence of God on my face right here that I happen to believe God's presence is invading wherever you are right now, and in his presence all things are possible. What do you need right now? The first thing you need to do is get right with God. Repent of your sins and believe Jesus is your Messiah and Lord. Get ready. Get ready!