Sid Roth - The 10 Levels of Glory
Sid Roth: I'm here with Hrvoje Sirovina, and he's from Germany, he's been with us before. And you weren't supposed to be here. They wouldn't let you into the United States. You must have really prayed hard.
Hrvoje Sirovina: No, actually, I believe there is an agenda of God here.
Sid Roth: I believe that also. You are here because God wants you here. What happened the last time you did the show with us?
Hrvoje Sirovina: Huh! We got overwhelmed with emails, phone calls, from all over the world. There were so many testimonies, testimonies of people getting- they got healed, heart diseases, God healed, you know, even families got reunited. Businesses started to flourish. People received hearing again. So it was like testimonies and testimonies, but also a lot of prayer requests.
Sid Roth: And he was very surprised because he never realized the power of television and social media that the healings were as easy as if he laid hands on people.
Hrvoje Sirovina: That's true. Usually, it's in a service where the glory of God comes and people get healed. But in this, this time it was really through, through the airwaves of television and social media. Amazing.
Sid Roth: And in your congregation, in Germany, you said enough was enough, and you declared May the miracle month in your church, but you got much more than that. What happened?
Hrvoje Sirovina: That's true. Actually, there are selfish reasons, you know, because at the end of May, it is our annual family vacation. So I said, you know, all the borders were closed, shut down. So we were like, no, no, no, I have to go to have my family vacation this year. So I declared the month of May as a miracle month and I started to preach about dancing through the storm.
Sid Roth: And the newspapers. Actually, the secular newspapers picked this up and ran headlines.
Hrvoje Sirovina: Yes, that's true. You know, even to the last day before we had to leave for our vacation, nothing looked like the borders are going to open up. Nothing looked like that. Our government is taking down the lockdown. So we prayed. I prayed, I proclaimed. And the very next day, our newspaper, our main newspaper, the headlines where "Germany is dancing again".
Sid Roth: Now! Don't you tell me things are impossible in your life? He got to go on vacation!
Hrvoje Sirovina: Come on!
Sid Roth: National headlines!
Hrvoje Sirovina: Come on!
Sid Roth: Germany is dancing again! Wow. But you know what excites me even more when you went to the gym and God began to download things about going from glory to glory? "The 10 Levels of Glory".
Hrvoje Sirovina: Right.
Sid Roth: Explain that.
Hrvoje Sirovina: I was in the gym and I was thinking, you know, and meditating on the Word of God, and I was meditating about the glory of God and meditating about scriptures like in First John 4:12. The Bible says, "No one has ever seen God," no- at all time. But then, you know, scriptures came up where I saw and I know there are so many over 80 people. I found over 80 people in the Bible who saw God. And that's where suddenly scripture after scripture came to, came to my mind and I went home. I studied. And that's what the Holy Spirit revealed to me "The 10 levels of Glory," and how we go from glory to glory and how it manifests practically, naturally, and supernaturally in our lives.
Sid Roth: Speaking of supernaturally, I heard you tell something that happened to members of your congregation, including your wife, when they were out in the Spirit, laying on the floor. You, you and others saw smoke coming out of them.
Hrvoje Sirovina: Yeah, we had that. We had a pretty rough time in the church, you know, people and persecution coming up. But people were so hungry for God, so, in our prayer meetings they would lay down on the floor. They would, they would just give their lives as a living sacrifice. It was such a glorious time. In that time we had a lot of healings, even five people raised from the dead during that time. But when people would rise up, come, come up again, you could see smoke coming up over their shoulders and their head and we believe it was like God said, "I accept your living sacrifice".
Sid Roth: It's a foretaste of what is coming.
Hrvoje Sirovina: Oh, yeah.
Sid Roth: Because the statement that I've been saying lately is, "All hands on deck"!
Hrvoje Sirovina: Come on.
Sid Roth: It's not just one or two people that God anointed, that have become superstars through media or something like that. And I'm saying to you that "All hands on deck!
Hrvoje Sirovina: Come on!
Sid Roth: As best you can, explain the glory of God.
Hrvoje Sirovina: I think the glory is best described in Luke 5:26, where Jesus healed, healed a paralyzed man and forgave his sin. And the Bible says that people saw that, and they say, "We have witnessed strange things". And the word, strange, "Paradoxa" in Greek, and "Para" means before, and "Doxa," means glory. So they- in paradoxa we get the word, the English word, paradoxical, something crazy and unexplainable. Something, something unusual, something which doesn't make sense. So, they witness something, they witness the glory of God, and it doesn't make sense for the human mind. It doesn't make sense for all, all the natural laws it doesn't make sense for it. And that's why they said, "We have witnessed strange things," paradoxical of things, but it was the glory of God. It's when Heaven and Earth overlap and the supernatural overrides the rules of the natural.
Sid Roth: Most people just say, "God," like me, "Show me Your glory". But then the Bible says we can go from glory to glory to glory. I've really got to understand these 10 levels of glory. How about you? What level of glory are you at?
Hrvoje Sirovina: Oh, number one.
Sid Roth: Next question!
Hrvoje Sirovina: I believe I am in level six, and actually, I believe that's my, my, yeah, yeah, I love that level because it's the level of the fear of God. And I believe that the fear of God is the most important thing in our lives. I believe if you have the fear of God that it is a doorway to all other glorious, miraculous steps and experiences in our lives. I believe if you have the fear of God, I believe you are going to, you know- our countries are going to be changed, because of us. I believe, I believe, our families are going to be changed. You know, in the Bible, there is nothing which is connected to more blessings than the fear of God. Nothing. Nothing, really nothing, even Jesus! The Bible says that Jesus during the days of His faith-
Sid Roth: I never saw a book titled "The Fear of God.' It was not a big seller in America. Or, the world for that matter.
Hrvoje Sirovina: Yeah. But you know, actually our news and media, they like fear. So I believe it might be a good title.
Sid Roth: I'll tell you what. When we come back, Hrvoje will reveal what he discovered about accessing unlimited glory. Unlimited! Be right back!
Sid Roth: Do you believe that the glory of God can and should be experienced? Why do you believe this so strongly?
Hrvoje Sirovina: I believe because you see it all over the Bible, you see that Jesus is doing miracles. Jesus is revealing His glory. We see in John Five there is a person who was paralyzed for thirty-eight years. Yet he wasn't looking for Jesus, but Jesus introduced Himself to him. He wasn't asking for healing. Yet Jesus came to him because He saw his need. So he didn't know who Jesus was, but Jesus introduced Himself to him. And what Jesus did- Jesus asked him, "Do you want to be healed"? And everything- what he answered was excuses and doubt, and yet, Jesus healed him anyways. So Jesus wants to heal. It's not about "Am I a Christian or not"? "Do I believe in Jesus or not"? It's that kind, that level of glory is for everybody. And we should spread that kind of glory in the world for people to believe in the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
Sid Roth: You talked about Moses and the glory.
Hrvoje Sirovina: Yeah. You know, in Exodus Thirty-three, the Bible says that Moses prayed, "Show me your glory". I really believe the reason why he was able to ask for more of glory, because in verse 11, the Bible says that God spoke to Moses face to face, like, like a friend to a friend. That's glorious. That is amazing. But yet, seven verses later, he said, "Show me Your glory". He got hungry- he was hungry. He was hungry. But why could he ask that? And I believe it's because of verse 13, where he says, "God, show me Your way". So, seeing glory produced, unselfish, unselfish, wishes in his life. He didn't want more blessings for him, for himself. He wanted more of God and less of himself.
Sid Roth: Let's, let's take level two of glory that you teach on, level two is "Signs and Wonders". Let's be candid, most believers think it's not for them because they've never seen it before. But what is the Bible? What do you say about that?
Hrvoje Sirovina: Oh, it's for everybody. But I asked, God, "God, why is it only level two?' And He said, "It's level two because I don't want my people to get stuck at level two". So he said, "There is more". And from experiencing signs, wonders, and miracles is not the end of the story. It's just the beginning. And He said, "Go out and heal the sick, go out, cast out demons, go out and raise dead," that the power is in us. And that's what the Bible teaches. So we are supposed to do all these things because we have stepped into that kind and level of glory. Immediately, when we received Jesus Christ as our Savior.
Sid Roth: You had quite an encounter at a time when you were really struggling. How many of you are really struggling right now? Tell us about that encounter.
Hrvoje Sirovina: You know, I got saved. Like, God, save me. I didn't look for God, I didn't ask for God, I thought, I loved God, but He hit me like from nowhere and I, I thought, God, this is so amazing. The first two months of my walk with Jesus, I thought, this is like a miracle, and it's like wonderland. This is like, it's always going to be like that. But after two months, huh! My flesh started to knock on my life. So, and then I experienced what I've experienced in my spirit, it didn't spill over into every part of my life. So I struggled with some issues, sin issues in my life, and I thought, "God, I can't do that. I don't know what to do". And then one August, in 2001, I got a dream. In that dream I was in a stadium in our city and there was a wrestling match going on, you know, a wrestling match. There was a guy. He was huge. He was so tall. He was so strong. He beat everybody. And there was no opponent anymore, and he was looking into the stands and he said, "You"! And he was he was pointing towards me, and I thought, what do you mean, me? No, I can't do that, and my mind was like that. Man, that is embarrassing. You know, I can't, I can't arm wrestle with him. But he really meant me. So I went to the front. I thought to myself, OK, let me just go over quick, you know, just leave the building. It's going to be embarrassing. So he took my hand. His hand was so big, I couldn't see my hand. And then the referee started the arm wrestling match. I closed my eyes and I thought, OK, that's, that's it. That's it. But nothing happened. So I opened my eyes and I saw he was red in his face. He tried so hard to beat me. He couldn't beat me. And I thought, this is, this is, this is my opportunity. So I took all of my strength and tried to beat him, but nothing happened. But in that moment, I said, "Holy Spirit, help me". I beat him. People started to jump. They took me on their shoulders, and I said, "It has nothing to do with me, it's not me, it's the Holy Spirit"! I woke up and I knew I have to get baptized with the Holy Spirit to get over, over, over all these issues I was struggling with.
Sid Roth: If there is such a need for people, as you said earlier, to understand the fear of the Lord. But it's not what you think. Would you explain that?
Hrvoje Sirovina: You know, Exodus 20:20 says "Fear not, God came to test you that His fear might be before you". So fear not, but you should be afraid, which means the fear of God casts out all other fears. The fear of God casts out all our fears you have in life, the fears you have concerning your family, concerning your job. The fear of God casts out all of these fears. Having the fear of God is running towards God, it's not running away from God. I believe it's the door and gateway to the highest levels of glory. I believe we have the fear of God. I really believe that nothing is going to be impossible for us. Nothing.
Sid Roth: You talked earlier about seeing God and you talked about what was this? Some 80 people saw God in the Scriptures, but few walked with God.
Hrvoje Sirovina: That's right. You know, Exodus 24:9-11. That was my like, my life Bible verse. I thought it can't get any more glorious than that. The Bible says that "Moses, Aaron Nadab, Abiud and the 70 elders they went up to the mountain". They saw God and ate and drank with Him. I thought, that's it, that's it. Come on! That's it. But then- that's Chapter Twenty-four. And in Chapter Thirty-two, you see exactly the same guys, except Moses and Joshua building the Golden Calf. They saw God. Yet still, they ended up in idolatry.
Sid Roth: It's hard to believe!
Hrvoje Sirovina: You know, and what, what I believe God said to me, I said, "God, how is this possible"? And God said, "Because after that incident, Moses went further up. All others went down. So all others were satisfied with what they saw, and they were happy to just post it on the social media about that experience. But Moses wasn't happy with social, social media. He wanted more of God. He wanted to walk with God. He just, he said, "No, no, no. It's fine to see God. It's fine to, to eat with God. It's fine to drink with God. But "God, show me your way"! I want to walk with You! Acts Four. I love Acts Four. Where, where Peter and John were in front of the Sanhedrin and the Sanhedrin questioned them. And you know what? The Sanhedrin said. We see these guys and the Bible says they are uneducated and untrained, and the word, untrained in Greek is "Idiotes".
Sid Roth: Ah-ha, I know that one, idiot!
Hrvoje Sirovina: There you go. That's what they saw in Peter and John. But then they said something is different with them, and then they saw, they walked. They have been with Jesus. And that's what the glory of God does. I believe the glory of God, we can measure the glory of God. How can we measure the glory of God? The Bible says in Second Corinthians 3:18, "Beholding like in a mirror, the glory of God. Being transformed into the image from glory to glory transformed into which image into the image of Jesus Christ". How much glory we have experienced is measured by how much are we transformed into the same image as Jesus Christ? Do we love more? Do we forgive more? Do we repent more? Do we praise more? Do we long more for the presence of God?
Sid Roth: OK. Level nine. Unity with God.
Hrvoje Sirovina: Unity with God. I believe that's the highest level any human will ever reach.
Sid Roth: You said there were 10 levels.
Hrvoje Sirovina: There are 10. That's the highest one.
Sid Roth: Okay, tell us about the ninth. The ninth is only one.
Hrvoje Sirovina: Level nine is unity with God. And you know what? Twenty-four hours before the, the hardest time of Jesus life, He prays this prayer and He prays for unity, unity between us Christians, between us believers and unity with God. I believe unity is the strongest, strongest bond between us. The Bible says that what God said, and we know the story about the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11 and God had to mess up their languages because He said, "These people are as one". And He said nothing is going to be impossible for them. These were unbelievers.
Sid Roth: All of unity operates, whether they are believers or not.
Hrvoje Sirovina: Absolutely. Look, why is the kingdom of darkness so successful in the last centuries? Why not? Because of love? I doubt there is any love between demons and spiritual forces of darkness. Why are they successful? Because of unity.
Sid Roth: But how much more can believers that operate in God's love in unity accomplish? If a nonbeliever could do that.
Hrvoje Sirovina: Nothing is going to be impossible for us! Nothing. Nothing. Transformation of society. Transformation of society. Nothing is going to be impossible for us. Nothing. OK, you piqued my curiosity. What is this tenth level? It's called the unapproachable light. And the Bible says God lives, you know, unapproachable light. It's reserved for God. And I'm so- oh, I'm sorry. And I'm so glad about that, because no one is like Him. No one deserves a place like Him, will never deserve a place like Him. He's one of a kind. He's all love. He's gracious. He's amazing. He's so wonderful. You know, the Bible says that eventually every knee will bow before Him. And I'm so glad that there is a place it's only reserved for God. So I said, God, that's, you know what? But I want to be with You. So the Bible says in First John 4:12 that no one has ever seen God at all time. But then it's as if we love one another. He's going to abide in us. There is a level, the tenth level, the unapproachable light. We will never get to that place because it's reserved for God, and I'm so glad for that because no one is like Him, but because He knows no one will ever get to that level, so what He did? He stepped down and came and dwelt in us!