Sid Roth - The Conspiracy to Erase Christianity's Origins, Part 2
Sid Roth: Hello Sid Roth right here. Last week if you were here, well, I'll tell you it was an exciting show. We found out all about the conspiracy within Christianity to denude the church of its Hebraic Jewish roots and it really was a conspiracy. It put a mixture crept in. And you know what I wonder? I wonder if that mixture had crept in if we wouldn't be getting the same results that we read in the new covenant. But while that was going on, it's almost like it's a conspiracy in the invisible realm. There was a conspiracy with the Christian church, but there was also a conspiracy with traditional Judaism called rabbinic Judaism. So on this show, we're going to talk about the rabbinic conspiracy. I have my friend, Dr. Robert Fischer here from Israel, an Israeli scholar. Most believers and Jewish people that don't believe in Jesus have zilch, zero knowledge of what Judaism was like just before Jesus came. Many Christians know about things like one group of Jews called the Sadducees, another group of Jews called the pharisees, but very few have heard of these Essenes. Just to kind of set the stage Dr. Robert Fischer, what were the Sadducees like? What did they believe?
Dr. Bob Fischer: The Sadducees were the keepers of the temple. They were the aristocracy, their lives were totally tied in with the temple. And when the temple went away in 70 AD, so did they. They just simply disappeared, and they left now legacy.
Sid Roth: Okay, what about the pharisees?
Dr. Bob Fischer: The pharisees transitioned much more capably. They went out and they became the keepers of the synagogal system. They were the replacements, sort of speak for the temple system, and they transitioned into modern day rabbinical Judaism. What rabbinical Judaism holds today, they learned from the pharisees.
Sid Roth: Okay, now there was a 3rd group that very few people until we got the revelations of the dead sea scrolls, knew anything about. And they were called the Essenes. What did they believe?
Dr. Bob Fischer: The Essenes were an amazing people. There were really 2 groups of them. There was a group at Qumran who wrote the dead sea scrolls. There may have been as many as 100,000 of them at one point. But all over the Galilee, all over Judea, all over what is today modern day Syria, there was something like 300,000 or more, perhaps as many as a million according to some authorities of these Nazarene Essenes. They were the Nazarene sect to the Essenes, and what they believed really was a now I guess to Christian understanding today.
Sid Roth: Now did you hear that? That is absolutely amazing, and bob as you explained to me when we see in the new testament, "The way", or we see "The Nazarenes", those were Essenes in those groups.
Dr. Bob Fischer: They were, they were almost entirely Essenes. There was certainly gentile Christians, early gentile believers in these groups of people, even pre-Pauline gentile believers. But the majority at that point and time in the first century, in the early first century after the ascension of Yeshua. These were Nazarene Essenes.
Sid Roth: Okay, before Jesus came to earth, we had the Essenes. They had from what you told me a Messianic expectation. What was their expectation of the Messiah?
Dr. Bob Fischer: Their expectation was that he would be from the line of David, that he would come in the flesh imminently, to atone for their sins. And that he would appear again at the end of days to reign in glory. They had a...
Sid Roth: But wait, let's get some nitty gritty stuff, though. Did they believe in his deity?
Dr. Bob Fischer: Absolutely, the scrolls are very clear that he was a great God among the Gods. That's a quote from the dead sea scrolls. They had a very clear understanding that he would not only g a deity, but he would be part of a triune Godhead.
Sid Roth: Oh, really? There are a lot of Christians that think it kind of evolved through Catholicism, this understanding of Trinity. But your saying it's Jewish?
Dr. Bob Fischer: Absolutely Jewish. It was being taught by the Jewish sages as early as 515 bc that the Godhead was triune in nature and it got written down finally in about 200 ad in the form of the zohar and other written forms, that is was clearly a Jewish idea that God existed in 3-parts.
Sid Roth: Now are you getting this? Let's go over this again. These Essenes were looking for a Messiah. This Messiah they were looking for, would be from the seed of David. He would be deity in human form. He would have a triune nature, and so when Yeshua, that's Hebrew for Jesus, came. What do you think these Essenes did?
Dr. Bob Fischer: Well, if you read in the book of acts, in one day 3,000 entered into the kingdom. You know it didn't any evangelism, they were anticipating him, and within days, within a handful of days, they were coming into the faith by the thousands simply because when Yeshua showed up, he fulfilled their expectation exactly. They understood who he was and they embraced him in the droves.
Sid Roth: Listen, so the big question I have is, why didn't every Jew believe that Jesus was the Messiah at that the time. We'll be right back after this word. I urge you not to go away. I don't think you will.
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here with Dr. Robert Fischer, and we're talking about the most outstanding discoveries. So few Christians, and Jews, and Muslims ever heard, I mean I think it would change everyone's thinking about Jesus if they would just investigate the belief of the Essenes as revealed through the dead sea scrolls. Now the question I have is, it's so obvious what these Essenes believe before Jesus came. We can see why the Essenes believed in Jesus, but why didn't every Jew believe in Jesus at the time?
Dr. Bob Fischer: Well, because they were very sectarian in nature. At the time, if you recall, we had the Sadducees that did their thing.
Sid Roth: They were sad.
Dr. Bob Fischer: They disappeared, they were very sad. And we had the pharisee's that went their own way, that were in great opposition. You know you recall Yeshua was very upset with the Sadducees and the pharisees. But you see nothing, you don't even see the Essenes mentioned by name in the new covenant, in the new testament. Why? Because Yeshua was very happy with them obviously. They are mentioned as "The way", they are mentioned as "The Nazarenes", but not as the Essenes which is common now.
Sid Roth: Okay, so what did the other types of Jews do that did not believe in Yeshua?
Dr. Bob Fischer: Well, as I pointed out earlier, these Sadducees who were sad simply disappeared. The pharisees went on to become modern day rabbinical Judaism. They transitioned into that way of thinking.
Sid Roth: Okay, so what's wrong with modern teaching?
Dr. Bob Fischer: They miss the Messiah. The Messiah is going to come, by their estimation at some point in the future. But when he comes, he's going to come to solve all the world's problems. He's going to be a man who brings peace. He's going to be a great judge. He's going to be a warrior, a leader of men. But he isn't in any way to be misconstrued as God.
Sid Roth: Well you know the one thing I know coming from a traditional Jewish background is the Shema. Sh'ma yisra'eil Adonai eloheinu Adonai echad. Hear o Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one.
Dr. Bob Fischer: Amen.
Sid Roth: Okay, now if therefore we Jews say this Yeshua, we can't believe in a triune nature, in a deity in a Messiah because of the Shema, and because of the articles of faith by "Rambam": explain.
Dr. Bob Fischer: Ah, this is one of my favorite subjects. "Echad": hear o Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is "Echad". The word "Echad" in Hebrew allows for a plurality within a "Unity". For example, and this is only one example from many from the old testament. A man and a woman will become "One" flesh: "Echad".
Sid Roth: Well, whoa, whoa, wait: so if that means 2 people, man and woman become 1, "Echad", that means "Multiple unity". So why do we Jews from a rabbinic viewpoint not believe in a "Multiple unity" of this "One God"?
Dr. Bob Fischer: Because "Maimonides Rambam" who came along in the 13th century, if I'm not mistaken getting my dates straight: he wrote of the 13 articles of the Jewish faith, which really became the outline of what modern day rabbinical Judaism believes. And he took the Shema, hear o Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one, and basically perverted it by taking the word "One" and not using the word "Echad", but using a word, "Yachid". And "Yachid" means an "Indivisible unity".
Sid Roth: Well, why would he distort Torah? That's what he did.
Dr. Bob Fischer: It's precisely what he did. In fact, one of the other articles of faith is, God will not be able to take on human flesh. That as he...
Sid Roth: But what did the Essenes believe?
Dr. Bob Fischer: The Essenes believed exactly the opposite. The Essenes believed that he would come in the flesh: imminently they were expecting him!
Sid Roth: You know if every if every Jew were to understand exactly what Dr. Robert Fischer is saying, that this is Jewish!. This is true Judaism! Judaism is believing in a God who came in the form of a man! Who had a triune nature! Who was from the seed of David! This was all believed! How many would you say were of these Jewish people were believers?
Dr. Bob Fischer: At the end of the 1st century, the figures vary quite a bit, but the upward figure is 1,000,000. 1,000,000, that's 33% Sid of the Jews of that day were believers in Yeshua if that figure is indeed correct. Today, something less than 1% of the Jews of the world, are believers in Yeshua. So we've come downhill from a true understanding at 33% to something less than 1%.
Sid Roth: Okay, I want to find out more about these Essenes, and the dead sea scrolls. First of all, tell me about, just briefly, about what are the dead sea scrolls?
Dr. Bob Fischer: Well, the dead sea scrolls were written down over a period of time from 270 BC to 70 CE. They were written down by this celibate group of monks at Qumran. All of the books of the old covenant are in included, but there were many of their own understandings included and many new testament ideas, Christian theology was included in the scrolls. Written down by these people long before Paul walked the face of the earth. Long before Yeshua walked the face of the earth. Christian theology and Christian doctrine were written down and recorded in the dead sea scrolls. Things like "Grace" predestine.
Sid Roth: Grace!
Dr. Bob Fischer: Grace, they believed in grace that the scrolls...
Sid Roth: I always thought in terms of "Works mentality" within Judaism.
Dr. Bob Fischer: Within pharisaic rabbinical Judaism, but not within Essenic Judaism.
Sid Roth: Ah...
Dr. Bob Fischer: So they had a very clear understanding of "Grace". They had a very clear understanding of "Pre-destination". And they had a very clear understanding of the "Lord's supper".
Sid Roth: What, what, what, what? You're saying before Jesus came, they understood "Communion", the "Lord's supper"?
Dr. Bob Fischer: They certainly did, there was a "Type of the Lord's supper" every major meal.
Sid Roth: Did they pray for the sick?
Dr. Bob Fischer: They prayed for the sick...
Sid Roth: Oh listen, we're running out of time. We'll be right back after this word. Don't go away, we'll be right back.
Sid Roth: Hello, Sid Roth here with Dr. Robert Fischer from Israel, wonderful Israeli scholar. I am so fascinated on the revelations from the dead sea scrolls. Everyone that's a Jew or a Christian absolutely needs to get this information. That's why we're making this dvd available for you. It's exclusive, through our organization. But bob, the Essenes intrigue me so much. Because if we can understand the Essenes which, I assume most of the first believers were from the Essene type of Jew, the first believers in Jesus. If we can understand them, we can understand our roots. For instance, they had according to your teaching, they had a 3 stage phase of something called "Baptism". Except they called it, "Mikveh", which is a Hebrew word that means just to totally be "Immersed". Tell me about these stages.
Dr. Bob Fischer: Sid there were 3 phases to the initiation of these people. You'll recall, they were coming into the faith by the thousands. You know one day 3,000. They went down into a grotto. They were, supervised deaconesses and deacons appropriately. They were anointed with oil, and in total darkness, they were anointed with oil. They repented for their sins. They made a statement of faith, and then the entire grotto was lit up with hundreds of Roman lamps, oil powered Roman lamps, and their bodies glistened. Then the next phase was right down the catacomb. Their catacombs all under mountains.
Sid Roth: Now these were the first believers.
Dr. Bob Fischer: These were the first believers, they were first Jewish believers in Yeshua.
Sid Roth: That's so amazing that we can know what they did.
Dr. Bob Fischer: You know where this is recorded? It was recorded by the early Roman Catholic church fathers. And it's very well documented.
Sid Roth: It's amazing though that no one knows about it today.
Dr. Bob Fischer: Well, they do know if you dig deep enough.
Sid Roth: Well, they do, but most of us don't.
Dr. Bob Fischer: That's true. Anyway, they went down the corridor and there was a mikveh, a place of immersion, and they immersed 3 times: total immersion in the Jewish manner, self-immersion supervised by a deacon or deaconess as the case were. They were fist baptized in the name of the father, and in the name of the son, and then in the name of the holy spirit. And this was the 2nd phase.
Sid Roth: So this whole deal of "Jesus only" is a "Johnny-come-lately".
Dr. Bob Fischer: Of course it is. Then the 3rd part of it really excites me, they went to the next part. And the next part was analogous to the Pentecostal baptism in the holy spirit. So they were baptized in the holy spirit...
Sid Roth: Now it was a total immersion? Or how did...
Dr. Bob Fischer: The immersion part of the second phase as you recall. They were immersed.
Sid Roth: Okay, yes. But how were they immersed?
Dr. Bob Fischer: They were immersed, they were self-immersed,
Sid Roth: Self? You mean no one held them?
Dr. Bob Fischer: No they were, literally squatted down in the water, and the person supervising this, a deacon, or a deaconess insured that they were fully immersed. I baptize in Israel the same way today.
Sid Roth: What do you mean insured?
Dr. Bob Fischer: Well, to make certain, if they didn't get their head under...
Sid Roth: They push him under?
Dr. Bob Fischer: They shoved them under to push to make certain, that...
Sid Roth: Oy vey! I don't know about that today, you'd get a lawsuit.
Dr. Bob Fischer: I haven't yet! And they were immersed, in the name of the father, in the name of the son, in the name of the holy spirit, and then they went to the 3rd phase, which was down the catacomb a bit further, where they were baptized in the holy spirit sort of speak. They were prayed for and they left speaking in tongues. So they got the whole thing.
Sid Roth: Now let me, I have heard something. I don't know if you have seen anything on it, I'm curious. But I was told there was faith in the early mikveh, or baptism for these Jewish believers that when they would go under the water, the demonic strongholds in their life would stay under there, and they would have a form of deliverance when they came up.
Dr. Bob Fischer: Actually, that's probably true, but the main repentance and renunciation of Satan took part in the first phase, as you recall.
Sid Roth: But they didn't 6 months like Christians do today. They were instantly when...
Dr. Bob Fischer: They were instantly when they left that ceremony, they were fully born-again believers in Yeshua. They were baptized...
Sid Roth: Now that's my kind of discipleship.
Dr. Bob Fischer: Amen. It was. The thing that amazes me I there were thousands going through this process. Thousands of them. In one day, remember 3,000. And every day there were thousands and thousands. At the end of the 1st century, we're looking at something like a million Jewish believers in Israel that had gone through this-this 3-part process and emerged as "On fire Jewish" believers. Now, they weren't Christians, they were Jews who had anticipated the Messiah, and they embraced him, and they were simply, fulfilled Jews if you would. There are all kinds of names for our people, that are confusing.
Sid Roth: But what happened to all of these people, these Essenes, and these a million Jewish believers in the Messiah? Why? What happened to them?
Dr. Bob Fischer: They were basically discriminated against by the Romans of the day. In 135 ad the revolt took place led by a rabbi Akiva, who embraced a false Messiah. And the false Messiah...
Sid Roth: You mean the rabbis made a mistake on the Messiah?
Dr. Bob Fischer: They certainly did.
Sid Roth: Well, yeah guess what? Guess what? If the rabbis made a mistake, and named a false Messiah not just once, many times. Maybe they made a mistake on the true Messiah.
Dr. Bob Fischer: Amen. They certainly did with him. Anyway, rabbi Akiva named Bar Kokhba in 135 AD, and he you know, this Essenic movement, these new Jewish believers there were many of them around at that point and time. There were hundreds of thousands of them anyway. And he wanted them to join with him against the Romans. In a secular rebellion, but there was a catch to it. They had to embrace his Messiah, his false Messiah, Bar Kokhba in the process, denounce their Yeshua. Obviously as born-again believers in Yeshua, they refused to do this. And this was the beginning of the major downfall because all, of Judaism at that point and time, other than the Essenes turned against them and they started to self-consume. Then, of course, the Romans were against them as well.
Sid Roth: So oy vey, I mean talk about being in a vice. Here the Jewish believers in the Messiah were rejected, from the church. They were rejected by the rabbis, and that's why many assimilated, and today don't even know about their Jewish roots. But the truth of the matter is, that the roots of Christianity are Jewish. The truth of the matter is the most Jewish thing you can do is believe that Yeshua, Hebrew for Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. The truth of the matter is, if you're a non-Jew, God loves you as much as all of the Jewish people. God has so much love. His whole plan is to break down the separation between Jews and gentiles, to form something brand new. And this brand new is called, "The one new man" and he has a name. His name is Yeshua. Get to know him. Listen, you have been turned off by man. Never get turned off on God by man. There is a peace that is available to you, that is beyond anything that anyone can offer, beyond drugs, beyond meditation. There is a healing for your soul, there is a purpose for your life. If you tell God, you're sorry of, your sins, believe the blood of Yeshua washed it away, and then say, "I make you Lord Yeshua, come inside".