Rabbi Schneider - Theological Violence in the 21st Century
Rabbi Schneider: Welcome beloved ones, to unique episode today, I've got a friend with me, Dr. Scott Kelso that recently wrote a book called theological violence in the 21st century. I've known Scott for many years and he's had a passion for the kingdom of God, a passion for the word, he's been able to stand in an uncompromising position for as long as I've known him. So I know that when he wrote this book, it didn't come because he just wanted to write a book. It came because there were some things burning in his heart that he wanted to communicate to the body of Messiah. In addition to having a long history of pastoring, a very fruitful congregation. He's also a leader here in Columbus, amongst pastors, and is connected nationally at many levels with high level leaders.
So Scott, I'm glad that you reached out to me about this book and honored to be able to talk with you today and spend some time discussing some of the themes that you've highlighted in theological violence in the 21st century. So what I'm going to do is Scott's got nine different major categories of things that he's addressed in his work. So we're going to hit nine distinct aspects of what is going on in our generation, in the prophetic history of where the church is today, we're going to hit nine themes and give Dr. Kelso an opportunity to share his heart regarding these areas. I think as I read through the themes that Scott wanted to highlight, I really was struck immensely when he got down to his final point, which is the nearness that we find ourselves in today as the body of Messiah to Yeshua Hamashiach's return. And I know that many of you feel it just like I do His return is nigh. So Dr. Kelso, God bless you, my brother again. So good to see you. It's been a little while you're looking good, looking healthy and you're like Moses, you got vitality in you. Amen. Even as you're aging.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Well, I appreciate that Rabbi. And I do feel good. I exercise regularly and you know, my wife keeps me on track with the diet. So praise the Lord just every day, just wake up and serve the Lord and thank him for what I have.
Rabbi Schneider: Amen. You know, one of my favorite scriptures in the Brit Chadashah, the new Testament, is where Paul writes that if the spirit that raised Jesus from the dead lives in us, He'll give life to our mortal bodies, to our flesh. You know, a lot of times you can look at somebody and if they're in their spirit, you know, if they're anointed and their spirits strong, they look completely different in the natural than they do when they're down. It just that life source, just giving them a whole new texture of, of their appearance.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Yes. Yeah. Amen. It's the, I believe it's the glow of the Lord and the joy of the Lord, you know, it just it's in us. We don't have to look for it. It's already in us. It comes out. So praise the Lord.
Rabbi Schneider: Amen. Boy, that's a key, that's a key key point. We could talk all day about that one thing, but let's hit the book theological violence in the 21st century. What does Scott mean by theological violence in the twenty-first century? He's talking about what are the ancient foundations beloved ones, that the church has been established on that are under siege and under attack. Scott, the first thing that you listed here was the fact that pastors today, many of them are not being educated in a system where they're being taught to expect anything supernatural from God. Go ahead and elaborate.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Yes. Well, I was actually educated under that paradigm the first time when I went through seminary in 1970. And, um, it's basically the influence of German scholarship over the last a hundred to 150 years where these people had a world view, a mindset that did not include the supernatural. So they had to weed out the supernatural from the Bible in order to, to what they thought gives some integrity to what they were doing. And because of that, I'd say a good portion of leaders and pastors over the last hundred years, let's say, have been educated in this kind of supernatural vacuum where they, they've not been taught to expect that the God that we worship is the God of the Bible from Genesis to revelation and the God that did these things in the Bible still wants to do these things today. And so when they get out in the pastor, the church, wherever they're at, they don't have the tools to really confront the deep human needs that they're confronted with every day of their lives. And they just try to use, you know, whatever they can, psychology, psychiatry, you know, the latest magazine article who knows, but that just won't cut it in the world that we're at today.
Rabbi Schneider: Wow. Really, I couldn't have said that better brother. And you know, reminds me of Yeshua's words in John five where he said to the Pharisees, you search the scriptures because you think, and them you have life. Yet it's these, that bear witness of me, and you refuse to come to me that you might have life indeed. I know you've probably paid a cost over the years for taking that position. I know I have for standing in a place of, we're not just believing in what God did for the ancient patriarchs. We're believing for him to do the same thing in our lives today. And we could talk about that a long time, but it's a huge problem. And as you said, when, when pastors can't lift people out of the natural, then they're not able to offer a solution to the real problems of life. And I know that you talk about that more deeply in, in your work here. Moving to a completely different point, but one also that has just so much bearing on what we're experiencing today is your point Scott, about the revolution that took in our culture, the culture of America in the 1960s, has come to fruition now and we're reaping the fruit of it. Why don't you explain.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Okay, well, probably many of your viewers perhaps most had, did not live through the sixties, but I can remember being in the classroom at Ohio State University, and this was right after the Kent state shootings, and there were riots all over the country in different universities and at Ohio State University, and I was sitting there and the tear gas in the room was so strong, I couldn't see the blackboard, my eyes were watering. It was really quite an experience. But what happened in the sixties is that, well we're seeing today the full flowering of the seeds that were planted in the sixties. Why is there such confusion around sexuality today? Those seeds came from the sixties. Why is this so much rebellion in the streets, and that we're seeing today, those seeds came from the sixties. All of this talk about a revolution and Marxism and socialism, that came from the sixties and they actually would have instituted it in the sixties if they could have gotten away with it. But the culture was still pretty much saturated with a Christian world view. So it didn't, it didn't happen then, but we're seeing it happen now. And folks look around America today and they say, how in the world did we get where we're at? Well, this is part of the, I believe, part of the answer.
Rabbi Schneider: Yeah, yeah. You know, the problems that we're experiencing and all the gender identity, confusion, the rebellion against all governmental institutions, whether it be the police force or whatever this whole concept of basically overthrowing traditional values. It's interesting when you consider that is this thing, as you said, it's, this has been brewing now for 60 years, and I know many of our viewers, they were, they did live through, through the sixties. And the fact that it's been brewing for 60 years and we're reaping the fruit of it now tells us that what we're experiencing friends, I don't believe it's reversible. I don't believe that we're going to return to the good old days. I think that what we're experiencing now is going to monumentally escalate the confusion, the chaos, the breakdown of order, the breakdown of agreement of absolute values, the chaos that we're experiencing today, it's only going to escalate expediential. This is why it's so important for us to live for Jesus, to the best of our ability, all our heart, strength, soul, and mind, now, so we'll be able to stand in what we're going to face in the future, because the chaos that we're experiencing now is just the beginning.
You know, Dr. Kelso, I had a dream not too long ago. And in this dream I was on a military ship. It was a large military ship. And we had just been through a tremendous battle. I didn't know what the battle was, all I knew is I was in my room in, in the ship, and I had, I knew that we had just been through a really tough time and that many people on the ship had suffered because of it, lives have been lost. There was a lot of oppression. There was a lot of sadness. And now that battle was coming to a close, and the ship was now in the port. And I was getting dressed in my cabin, getting ready to get off the ship, hopefully now to breath some fresh air, like all that's over now, it's behind us, again, a lot of pain and a lot of suffering had taken place.
And while I was in my room, getting dressed, an officer walked into my room that was at a higher rank than I. And he said to me, if you think that battle was hard, the next one is going to be harder. And then the spirit of the Lord spoke to me and he said this to me and anybody that's on sedatives will not make it through. We we're about to face such horrendous times in America and around the world that unless people are truly living alive and awake to the Lord, they're not going to make a through, there are going to be casualties. This is why Jesus said, when the son of man returns to earth, will there be faith? We need to be serious today. Let's move on here. I love this next point that you addressed, Scott in your book, the priesthood of believers and kind of looking at the priesthood responsibilities of the Israelites in the Hebrew Bible. Elaborate on that for us.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Well, we find it, of course, in the New Testament that Jesus is called and referred to as the great high priest. And then those who followed Jesus are a part of this great priesthood, which is kind of coming full circle of what God intended for the entire people of God in the beginning, Exodus 19:5 to be the priesthood, but they didn't cooperate with this plan, so the Lord had a point of priesthood and that went through its cycle all through the Old Testament, but now we're back around and we are part of the priesthood. And I took this verse from Ezekiel 44:23, because there kind of lifts up the duty of the priesthood, was to show the difference to the people between the holy and the common, between that which was clean and that which was unclean. That's the whole duty of the priesthood to show people the difference. And so the worst and, and the theme of this chapter is discernment.
So discernment will allow us to navigate and, and know the difference between what it was acceptable, what is unacceptable, the holy, and the common, and so many people are not being taught this principle, even in the churches today. And because of that, we're just, you know, we find Christians, they say from the statistics that like the divorce rate among the church just as, as great as the divorce rate outside of the church. So the way the church is living their living towards the world, rather living towards the kingdom of God and pressing into a vital witness to the world.
Rabbi Schneider: Yeah. Amen. And, you know, you mentioned here, Scott, in your book about the role of the priesthood as you just hit on helping the people understand what was holy and what was profane or common. And that was the role of the priesthood, I mean, the Lord has specific foods for the children of Israel, specific clothes that they had to wear, the types of fabric that they could wear, every single part of their life, the Lord addressed in the Torah. And the priesthood really had three roles from my understanding, number one, the role of the priest was to minister unto the Lord to draw near to the Lord. The priest are first of all, called to draw near to Yahweh. Secondly, the priest offered up sacrifices. They sacrificed all the animals in the Hebrew Bible, and of course today we're offering our own bodies as a living sacrifice and offering a prayers and ministering to God's people. And then the third role of the priesthood was to represent God to the people. So to draw near to the Lord, to be a living sacrifice, and then to communicate the things of God into the people. But as you are pointing out in your book, is that the priesthood is largely compromised. So they're no longer distinguishing between the sacred and the profane. It's like, they're just, they're just like a water down, you know, kind of a thing it's like, you know, it's like souped up psychology a lot of times and brother, you know, you hit it.
Dr. Scott Kelso: And I, I feel like our only defense at that point is to know the Word, the individual person really getting to know the Word, because we'll be able to discern once we learn what the Word really says, then we'll be able to discern the holy from the common and profane, but we've got to know the word, that means we've got to open it, we've got to read it, we've got to spend time in it, not just the priest. I mean, well, we're all the priesthood now, but yeah, the average, the average believing person, they can't go to on Sunday morning and get 20 minutes and feel like that's going to carry them through the week. It's not going to work.
Rabbi Schneider: Yeah. You know, I think the two biggest breakdowns, Scott, and what you're saying are number one in the area of how those that name the name of the Lord are handling relationships and being unequally yoked to unbelievers. And then secondly, I see the, the major issue as we have a whole generation of those that call themselves believers, but their experience has been all about worship and they've never been trained in the word. And the fact is, they haven't been trained neither have they received the mandate to put the word first above their own thoughts and feelings. So, you know, I don't know. I know that you have experienced this just like I have, and that as you know, we have young women coming into the congregation and it could be the same for young men. And they're single, they're living for Jesus. They're passionate about the Lord. They're attending, you know, mid-week discipleship classes, they're attending Bible studies, they're, you know, going out, reaching out to people with the body. I mean, they are passionate believers. And then all of a sudden, I've seen this too many times to recount, this passionate, single person meets somebody.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Come on.
Rabbi Schneider: And the person they meet, they're not a believer. And all the sudden it's like, this person, they compromise their standards, they compromise their lifestyle, they start drifting away from the Lord. And nine times out of 10, they find themselves drifting away from the Lord completely. It's because they're not separating the profane from the unprofane. You know, I had a situation. This is the only time this has ever happened to me. I know that you're a guy that operates in the supernatural, so you can relate to the fact that sometimes you'll just be able to faintly see in the spirit, a scripture reference, that's happened to me many, many times.
You know, I was just in a church not long ago, I walked in and the pastor said, would you speak for five minutes after worship? And I said, sure. So I sat down, there was something in my heart that it was really stirring in me that that's what I wanted to share, but I sat down. I said, Lord, you know, is this what you want me to share? What, what, what do you want me to share on? And I saw a scripture reference, Scott, so far away so far away, I could, if I wasn't paying attention and if I didn't have faith, I wouldn't have even seen it. But I saw scripture reference. I didn't even know what the verse said, but I saw it, so subtle I could have so easily miss it. Then I opened my Bible next to me to look up that verse, to see what it says, and Dr. Scott when I opened the Bible, it turned to that verse.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Oh my.
Rabbi Schneider: But one time in my life, where I wanted to go with this, one time in my life, did the spirit of the Lord speak to me so forcefully a scripture reference that there was no mistaking. I mean, it was like, oh, it was like an ocean wave coming over me.
Dr. Scott Kelso: I hear you.
Rabbi Schneider: And it wasn't that long ago. It was probably about, maybe a year ago.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Okay.
Rabbi Schneider: And I was just waking up in the morning. And just as I was waking up a wave of an ocean wave of God's love came over me and he spoke a verse to me. All I heard was that was the reference. 2 Corinthians 6:14. I had to look it up, do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness, the profane, you know, with the holy. That's, what we're, that's what you're really talking about here. The lack of discernment and ability and desire to lead a sanctified, separated life when it makes you unpopular in the world.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Right? And actually, the first two chapters of this book kind of identify the problem, but now we're starting to get into the solution. The rest of the book is the solution. What you're describing leads us to the next item, which is the prophetic. That's really what the prophetic is, Rabbi, is hearing the voice of God, whether it's visually or you know, with your ears or in your spirit, it's hearing God speak to you. That's what happened to Abraham when he was told to leave ur of the chaldees and go around the fertile Crescent and down into what was, would have been Israel. How did he know that, he couldn't turn to chapter and verse? And so many of the characters in the Bible, these leading characters, they didn't have scripture, but they had the voice of God and God led them. And I still believe that God wants to lead us today.
Rabbi Schneider: Amen brother. Amen. Yeah. Praise Jesus. I mean, that's what makes me, so in love with Jesus, the fact that we can experience Him, that we can hear from Him, that it's real. So baruch hashem, bless the name of the Lord.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Amen. The fear of the Lord.
Rabbi Schneider: Oh, yes, please.
Dr. Scott Kelso: The fear of the Lord is one of the best chapters I think in the book. And I used the illustration that early on God separated Israel from all the nations of the world in one vein, and that vein was, He revealed Himself as the only true God. All the, all the other religions of the ancient world, and most of them today, had multiple gods that they worship, they called a Pantheon, a multiple gods, and Israel comes on the scene and she has one God, the only true God. And so that distinguished Israel from all in the nations of the world and really caused a virulent, pushback instilled us today, because, because we know that that Hebrew, God Yahweh is the God. And so we find out that in the fear of the Lord, we're trying to get to the point where, no matter what the Lord asks us to do, we're willing to do that because we want to walk in the blessing and the power of God. And, and I believe that the church today really has a lot to learn about the fear of the Lord. It's not a, it's not a being scared of God. He's up in heaven, gonna knock you as soon as you do something wrong, but it's this, it's this reverence, this awe, this otherness, this holiness of God who wants to envelop us and make our life a complete entity in the world that we're living, so we can be an effective witness for Jesus.
Rabbi Schneider: Yeah, Amen. Amen. The fear of the Lord. You know, I think the anointing that the Jewish people carry the ultra Orthodox Jewish people, I think they still carried the anointing from Sinai.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Okay.
Rabbi Schneider: You know, they saw that, that the fear of the Lord came upon all of Israel, 3 million gathered at the base of the mountain, and they hear Yahweh speak with the thunder and the lightning and they trembled. And today when I go to Jerusalem, for example, and I get in that type of an environment where I'm surrounded by ultra orthodox Jewish men, not all of which are necessarily God-fearing, but I'm talking about the cream of the crop. And I get in a sense, in an environment where I'm surrounded by that, there was an anointing, Scott, of the fear of the Lord. They lack the intimacy that we can have with the Lord through Yeshua for sure, but the fear of the Lord they've got, and we need that.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Yes.
Rabbi Schneider: And, you know, it's like you're saying without the fear of the Lord, there's something broken because you know, the fear of the Lord is not opposite the love of God.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Right!
Rabbi Schneider: We don't have to have everything line up. You know, the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord. And as you know, my brother, a lot of, a lot of the teaching today about the fear of the Lord, really waters it down. They say all that just means that God wants us to respect him. No, He wants us to fear Him. If I'm afraid of not receiving the love of God.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Come on.
Rabbi Schneider: I'm afraid of what God will do to me if I practice sin, I just don't respect Him. I'm afraid of what he's going to do. I'm afraid of his judgment. Not that he's going to reject me, but that he's going to, he's going to punish me, it's going to hurt. There's something, there's something that is lacking, um, when the fear of the Lord is lacking, it's a balance. Yes, we're confident in His love, but we're also recognizing that if we know the difference between right and wrong, and we choose wrong, the Bible said there's nothing left, but a fearful expectation of judgment. So I'm all for the fear of the Lord, brother. I pray for it. It's clean.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Yes.
Rabbi Schneider: And it converts the soul and we need it. You know, enough of this laissez faire, you know, contemporary Christianity where, you know, let's serve everybody, cappuccino in the pews.
Dr. Scott Kelso: Exactly!
Rabbi Schneider: You know, gosh, man, I hear your brother. You hit it, theological violence. Our brother is talking about what is going on. But, you know, Dr. Scott, we're skipping a few points we're going to have, I would have people pick it up in the book, but I want to get to the last point, the culmination of the fact that we are living in your, in your view. And in my view, we share, where are we in terms of the redemptive timetable?
Dr. Scott Kelso: I believe that we are entering the pressure at the conclusion of the last days. I think we're coming in for a landing. And I believe that there's, there's, I didn't mention this, but there's 12 biblical markers that portray a last days environment, and all 12 of those are in place right now. And so I think that because of that, we're, we're seeing a swell of darkness and evil around us that is so great that I mean, even common sense will tell you something's wrong. Something's amiss here in our life. And you know, when people can shoot people and get away with it, when people can walk in the drug store and just, and just load up the items in their bag and walk out without any, I mean, this is just, it's just chaos.
Rabbi Schneider: Chaos is the word.
Dr. Scott Kelso: And that's what we're going to enter into in these last days. And I believe the Lord is calling forth a remnant people to be able to stand up and, and to be able to still have the love of God and still have the power of God in their life, but not to compromise, to be able to say, you know, thus sayeth the Lord, and this is right, and this is wrong, and this is where we're going to cast our lot.
Rabbi Schneider: Yeah. Amen, brother. You know, I know, I know in your book, Dr. Scott, I want to say that this man is a scholar, you know, he's got a doctorate. What's your doctorate in?
Dr. Scott Kelso: It's in supernatural ministry. I actually did my study on a biblical eldership, the whole concept of eldership from the Old Testament to the New Testament and how the elders can make a difference in the, in the effective running of the local church.
Rabbi Schneider: Okay, beautiful. The reason I brought it up is because this book is very well-written and very well organized. So there's a lot that Dr. Kelso wrote in the book, laying it all out, he just talked about the 12 markers. He really does a good job in laying things out in a very organized way. I too believe Jesus is getting ready to come back. And, you know, we've been saying this for 2000 years, but I feel it. I know in my knower church that we have entered into what the Bible calls the last days. We're at the beginning of it, but we are in it, we're in it. And unless we're feeding ourselves on the word of God, the love of God, fellowshipping with the saints, building ourselves up and what the Bible calls our most holy faith, we are going to get swept away by the tide of evil and darkness that is being unleashed right now in mass, over the whole earth. So beloved, we've got to do something to seize God's word and not let anything else in. My brother, I want to thank you for being a gift to the body of Messiah, to the body of Christ. Thank you for the labor of love and the passion that's in your heart, that inspired you to write this book. Where can people get theological violence in 21st Century?
Dr. Scott Kelso: It's on Amazon, it's on Barnes and Noble. And, you know, I have copies myself, but it's, that's probably the easiest way, you know, to get it, just to get it online. And, yeah, the books doing real well. It's being read all across the country by leaders. It's endorsed by really a lot of high profile leaders, Randy Clark, Michael Brown, Mike Bickle out in Kansas city and many other people. So I'm thankful for that. And I think that if a person reads this book and all the scripture that I put in it, and they, you know, reference the scripture and use it as a study, it will impact their life.
Rabbi Schneider: Amen. The word of God is living and active, sharper than a two-edged sword it will. Well, brothers and sisters, God bless you today. Love ya. Thanks for tuning in. Y'va-reh-chcha yahweh v'yeesh-m'reh-cha, Ya-air yahweh pa-nahv ay-leh-cha vee-choo-neh-ka, and to you Scott my dear brother, Yee-sa Yahweh pa-nahv ay-leh-cha v'ya-samel'cha to you all, Shalom.