Matt Hagee - Love, Loss, Faith, Hope
Matt Mattera: My name is Matt Mattera. I'm from Narragansett, Rhodes island. And I serve in the military, almost 23 years now. And I'm married to my lovely wife, Erica, for almost as long. We have two, really three beautiful children. One's up with the Lord right now, in 1984...
Erica Mattera: Our first few years of marriage were very honeymoon like, I think so. It wasn't until we got to guam that things started to get a little shaky. It was Elizabeth's issues that we did have a lot of difficulty with going through that process.
Matt Mattera: So really over the span of about 30 years, I've had six losses in my family from suicide in some form. In 1984, I lost my father to suicide. I walked in a room moments after he fired the shot. Got on my little green tractor. Got my headphones in. I see the school bus come up. It stops right in front of the house. I happened to be driving up that part of the yard at the same time, as I was cutting the yard. I see these two little feet get off the bus. And I see her. She sees me. I wave "Hi" to her. She waves "Hi" to me. And that was going to be the last time I ever interacted with my daughter on this side of eternity. I walk into the kitchen from the entry way that led from the garage. And I called out her name. "Hey, Elizabeth, we've got to go". And no answer. I figured maybe she was upstairs, maybe she's playing video games, or maybe she's outside. I couldn't find her. Long story, short, after looking for her for several minutes, I go back in the house, and I look, and I notice my master bedroom closet opened. I walk up to her. I shook her. She didn't move. I rolled her over and what I saw was the most horrible thing that any parent can even imagine. She had accidentally gotten into the gun safe and had taken her own life the same way that her grandfather, my dad, had so many years prior.
So that whole first year learning, after Elizabeth passed away, was when we learned to walk again spiritually, emotionally and mentally. And we drew closer together. And forgiveness and embracing that journey of forgiveness, forgiving those that made such a terrible choice of suicide, and learned to forgive each other, as Erica said, to show each other that grace.
Matt Hagee: That's a moment that no parent ever cares to, in any way, consider, much less face. And yet, you've gone beyond the point of facing it to helping other people who are struggling with similar situations in their family on how they can heal. There's a long road between that moment and where you are today. How'd you get there?
Matt Mattera: The Lord, strength in him and faith, and stewarding this experience. So people have asked us time and again, "How do you carry this burden"? And I tell them, "This isn't a burden to carry: it's an opportunity to steward something". And when he says in his word, "All things work together for good for those that love God and those that are called according to his purpose," I said, "Okay, God: here's a plate of all things". When you think about it, that's six people in my family. And when our daughter was taken from us by the adversary, I thought, first my dad, then my little brother, all these other people, but now the enemy killed my kid. And the attitude I had was, now I'm coming after you, because it's personal.
Matt Hagee: And let me say this: man to man, that's a pretty masculine way to compute that. How'd you compute it?
Erica Mattera: Um, I pretty much felt the same way. I understood who was lying to her the entire time, telling her the things that, you know, that just go over and over in their head about, you know, they're not worth living and how nobody wants them. They would be better off gone. I understood who was lying to her.
Matt Hagee: And I think it's an impactful way to say it, because suicide is a lie.
Erica Mattera: Absolutely.
Matt Hagee: You know? If God is the giver of life, then anything that takes that life in such a way is contrary to the truth of how we were created and why we were created. And so much of the things that you see involved in situations like this are based in lies: you know? Whether it's I'm worthless, I didn't succeed, I failed, there's nothing that can be salvageable in my future, so I have to make a decision today that's going to make all of my deception, you know, which is considered in many ways pain, go away. And so, you know, when you have the ability to put it in the context of, "I know who was lying to her," you really identify the source of the situation, and then can start to attack the problem at the root instead of hack at the branches of it.
Erica Mattera: Yes.
Matt Hagee: As you do that, how have you seen this open up your opportunity to share your experience and see other people rescued and healed in the midst of this circumstance?
Matt Mattera: Uh, great question, Matt. So there's been the opportunities to talk to parents and men, fathers, that have either in their own personal life have wrestled with those same thoughts of hopelessness, self-harm and self-destruction. Or they've had people in their family, children, that have wrestled with these same things too, and be able to transfer to them that message that, hey, here's the things to look for. And oh, by the way, suicide is a part of a greater grand strategy of the adversary. Remember he comes to kill, steal, and destroy, and...
Matt Hagee: And suicide does all three.
Matt Mattera: It does all three. The cascade affect that it has, I mean you look at, again, six years old, lost my father.
Matt Hagee: It stole your childhood.
Matt Mattera: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Matt Hagee: It killed your father, it stole your childhood, and it destroyed the potential and promise of your household.
Matt Mattera: Right. Oh, yeah.
Matt Hagee: Because you didn't get the chance to introduce kids to grand dad. You didn't get the opportunity to share memories and moments. You, you know, grew up with this void.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: So I mean in every circumstance and situation, it does all three of those things. It robs. It kills. It destroys.
Matt Mattera: Right. And so that's a lot of the things that folks don't think about is, obviously, the immediate tragedy of the loss of somebody that take their own life. And it goes against that innate sense of self-preservation that we have that has really been imbued into nature. But human beings, we're the only ones out of all of God's creatures on this planet that will self-destruct when crossing that threshold. And it's, again, part of the adversary's grand strategy to lie on this battle space of the human mind. People have asked, time and again, "Is it a physical issue? Is it a mental health issue? Is it a spiritual issue"? Which is that's really, people will think about that. Human beings, we are three-part, mind, body, and spirit. I'm not a mental health professional. I'm not a psychiatrist or a doctor, but I'm a guy that's actually walked through this. And I've seen that there's been this third part of this suicide problem set that is grossly ignored, and that is the spiritual aspect. And it's an inward problem that manifests itself outwardly through such a traumatic and devastating choice.
Matt Hagee: Yeah. And you mentioned, "Body, mind, and spirit," which is encompassed in the triune being of man created in the image of a triune God.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: The distinction in the Trinity of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit: and the triune being a man, is we're weighted: he's not.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: God the Father, God the son, God the Holy Spirit, three in one: they're all equal.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: For us, it's a weighted Trinity, because the Bible says, "Beloved I wish that would be in good health and prosper in all things even as your soul prospers".
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: What did Jesus Christ say? "What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world," which is a physical gaining, "And loses his own soul"? So we have a spiritual weight that makes the spiritual side of a man much more important than his physical side, much more important than his mental side. So when you say, "Is it a physical problem? Is it a mental problem? Is it a spiritual problem"? It's all three.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: But the weight of it falls to what you were saying, "I know who was lying to her". It was a spiritual lie. It was a spiritual deception that impacted her mental status that eventually worked itself out in her physical outcome.
Matt Mattera: That's right.
Erica Mattera: Absolutely.
Matt Hagee: And so it doesn't matter what end of that spectrum you start on. You have to get back to that root of it's a spiritual issue, because every human being is a spiritually created being even if they don't recognize it.
Matt Mattera: Right. Absolutely.
Matt Hagee: When we come back, we're going to have more of this conversation, and give you the opportunity to identify areas that you need to be engaging in conversations with members in your family, friends and loved ones, even though they're walking through trying times, they'll have the opportunity to discuss how God can do great things. You're watching "The Difference". When we come back...
Kendal Hagee: Welcome back to "The Difference". We just heard from Mark Jones, who counseled you both during this difficult time.
Matt Hagee: And you know he mentions some red flags and things that parents need to pay attention to. Before I ask you about that, in our last segment, you were talking how, you know, God got you from where you lost your daughter to where you are today.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: And you identified the spiritual component to the fact that you know the enemy was lying to her. Where were you in your faith on the day you lost your daughter compared to where you are now? Because the Bible says, "The just shall live by faith," and I've always in my life, struggles, hardships, heart-breaking seasons: that's where my faith was the most valuable: you know? When things are good, I'm like, "Hey, I must have it all figured out, because nothing's going wrong in my life right now". And then all of a sudden trouble comes and that's when I fall on my knees, and say, "God, help me".
Matt Mattera: That's right.
Matt Hagee: And you kind of realize in those struggling seasons, if I don't ask for that help every day, if I don't ask for that help on the good days, then I'm not building the strength and the faith that I need for the hard times. You know, I mean as a military guy, how many days to you train before you actually have to use your training in conflict?
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: You know it's not like you're going, "Hey, I think we might get in a fight some day, so let's think about preparation". You're constantly in a prepare, you're either training or you're executing: you know?
Matt Mattera: Correct. So it's funny you bring that up, so train like you fight. And that's what we say in the military. Our faith at that point, we had lost Elizabeth, was at an interesting time in our marriage and in our Christian walk. We had folks that came and surrounded us. And I think that's really important to have a strong cadre of brothers and sisters in Christ that can be there with you: that can hold you up.
Matt Hagee: Share grief.
Matt Mattera: Share grief and they can carry when you've got fist-sized holes in your shield. And they can be, you know, when the word says, "Bear one another's burdens, laugh at those that laugh, and grieve with those that grieve," and so we had folks with us to help carry us. For us, that loss brought us closer together in our marriage, brought us closer together in our faith. Certainly there's things that we still have to walk through and you know that's a seam and gap caused by a wound like that. The enemy seeks to get in there and infect it with anger, resentment, hostility. Little things that would normally just be a minor irritation can all of a sudden exasperate. You know you leave a sock on the floor, "Why did you leave that there"? And you start finding yourself getting into arguments that don't matter. But it is important to have that faith routine, like hitting the gym. You can't go once a year and expect that one day to carry you for the rest of the year: you've got to do it every single day.
Matt Hagee: That explains so much of my physical problems. I make, you know, a light statement about that. But it's such a truth that you have to be diligent: you know? You have to be diligent in that faith engagement so that you have, you know, the resources available to you in a spiritual context to not only defend but to keep the enemy out.
Kendal Hagee: That's right.
Matt Hagee: You know, you've identified him. You are doing war against him now. But he hadn't given up on fighting you either.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: You know? I mean that's the thing that really gets to be a challenge in spiritual conflict that people don't really recognize. And Mark did a beautiful job of pointing that out. And he says, "The enemy has no empathy". He's got nothing to lose. He's got all the time in the world. And he already knows what his outcome is. So it's not like he's negotiating for a better position. He's just trying to figure out: how many people can I take with me?
Matt Mattera: That's right.
Kendal Hagee: Speaking of that with your family, I know you have two kids, one that's in seventh grade and another little boy that's three. How did all of this affect them and how did you have to just pull the stronghold around them in like your faith?
Erica Mattera: Well, at the time, we didn't have Marcus. It was just Isbella. And literally everything else fell to the waist side. And we just huddled up together and surrounded each other with just constant love and tenderness and leaning on one another whenever we were having a hard time. So Isbella's a little rock star. I had a moment where I was just broke down into tears. And I remember her coming into the room and telling me, "Momma, why are you crying"? And I said, "Because I miss Elizabeth so much". And she says to me, "Why"? "She's in heaven". And it just made me cry even more.
Matt Hagee: Well, and you know the Bible speaks to that end. It's childlike faith.
Erica Mattera: Absolutely.
Matt Hagee: You know?
Erica Mattera: Yes.
Matt Hagee: I mean the thing about a child that's precious and the thing about a child that is also very vulnerable is that they are so quick to believe.
Erica Mattera: Yes.
Matt Hagee: You know?
Erica Mattera: Yes.
Matt Hagee: If we would be just us quick to believe what Jesus said as they are, you know, then we wouldn't have so many struggles, because they hear it and they go done: you know?
Matt Mattera: Right. Absolutely.
Matt Hagee: And you know it's a wonderful thing to have that kind of perspective in a moment like that, because I've always said that it doesn't really matter how, but the only way that you can overcome death is overwhelm it with life.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: You know as a pastor I get to do funerals on a regular basis for all kinds of reasons. And it really doesn't matter: the thing that you do at a funeral is you have one person that you're memorializing, and then you have a whole group of people, hundreds of people, 50 people, 150 people, just depending on how deep their relationships go, you know, that are there to overwhelm death with life. They bring their newborn baby. They bring their child that just got engaged. They bring their son that went off to college. They bring that nephew that's back from the military. And in each and every one of those moments, you get to see that life goes on.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: You know? And so faith is something that gives you the strength to believe. And then you recognize that life goes on. When we come back, we're going to talk more about how life can go on and grow, and God can do great things even in deep sorrow. You're watching "The Difference".
Matt Hagee: Welcome back to "The Difference". Matt and Erica, you've been so kind to share the story, the circumstances, that affected your family. In our final segment, I want to talk a little bit about how prevalent this is in the world today. There's a lot of families that, whether they want to admit it or not, they're having these kinds of struggles in their home. And I know that on your heart is sharing with them: don't ignore those warning signs. Stay, you know, vigilant and protect your children. Don't turn the other way. Get right in the middle of it and fix it before it becomes final.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: So what would you say to those people? And what would be some of the things that they should pay attention to if they're seeing these kinds of struggles in their home?
Matt Mattera: Sure. There's a litany of signs and precursors to keep an eye on. You know when we lost Elizabeth, we literally saw her disappear before our eyes. And I mean that over this period of a few years preceding her passing. Slowly the climate of her music started to change. Her outward appearance started to change. She goes from painting her room from a light color to a dark, morbid color. We had posters all of a sudden go on the wall that, you know, from bands and music genres that glorify a dark, morbid theme of self-destruction and hopelessness. And then the social media effect, which is really, for kids, man, if you think about this, social media, it's made by adults for adults. And instead, it's become a force multiplier for these enduring themes and messages of hopelessness, depression, poor self-image, narcissism, that have captivated these kids. And um, I would just tell parents to really keep an eye on the climate of your kids. What are they listening to? Is their appearance starting to change? Are they communicating certain types of language that portrays a sense of hopelessness or depression or poor self-image? And then really look at that social media. Again, it's made by adults for adults. And the payload, the data payload on these things is really mostly children.
Matt Hagee: Well, and so much of it has connected itself, from my perspective, into the child's affirmation.
Erica Mattera: Yes.
Matt Hagee: You know? So and so puts out a picture of themselves and they get 500 likes. I put out a picture of myself: I only get 50. There must be 450 people more in this world that love them than love me.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: And while from an adult perspective, you would say, "Well that's pretty nonsense and immature". From their perspective, that's reality.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: You know that's everything. And you know you have to really understand how much that impacts their decisions and what they need to hear from you to overcome that.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: Because in their context, that's like 450 insults.
Matt Mattera: Right.
Matt Hagee: You know?
Matt Mattera: Yeah.
Matt Hagee: I mean when I was a kid and I came home, and said, "Somebody was mean to me," my parents would talk me up and pat my on the head, and away I'd go: you know? But I didn't have that constant contact to the source of the problem to where, you know, it really requires a constant contact from a parent to be able to mitigate the impact that that's having in their life.
Matt Mattera: That's right.
Matt Hagee: In, you know, situations where this has happened, I know for many people, they have no desire to even discuss it. They want it to be a very private issue. They want to keep it, you know, quiet. You've taken a very different approach and you want to have a conversation. You want to let people know that this is a problem. You want to let them know that there's hope. Uh, what is it that you do to help people open up about those situations? Because I know when they hear your story, they're going to say, "How do I get in touch with those folks? What do I do to carry on this conversation"? Because you've hit on something that's in homes that homes don't want to admit exists.
Matt Mattera: Right. So this needs to be dinner-table conversations talked with and having your finger on the pulse of your kids. So we've decided to go ahead and we've started our web page. We've started a blog. We've gone ahead and talked about our story. And parsed in there, discussing not just the six tragic losses we've had in our family, but also our journey through the grieving process, what that looks like, the leveraging certain components from military experience, the leadership required, because you have to assume a leadership role with this thing. If you want to get ahead of the grieving process, if you want to get ahead of the issues that are taking place in your home, well then what does that require? It requires the adults in the room, the parents in the room, to say, "Okay. I'm going to demonstrate this leadership," and have some uncomfortably honest questions and conversations with our kids, and then also be willing to reconcile with some of the inconvenience truths that may be, uh, may be difficult to hear.
Matt Hagee: Yeah. And then take action on it.
Matt Mattera: Absolutely.
Matt Hagee: You know I think that the identifier is one thing. But then action is the other part of it.
Matt Mattera: Absolutely.
Matt Hagee: That's really where the transition occurs, uh, because as the Bible says, "Faith without works, it's dead".
Matt Mattera: That's right.
Matt Hagee: You know? I want to pray for those of you who are watching, because I know that today, we've discussed a topic that many of you might be dealing with. And if you are dealing with it, there is hope. His name is Jesus. There is help. That help can be found in a local church. That help can be found in a ministry like ours. That help can be found in searching out a web page like Matt was just discussing. But wherever you are today, I want you to know that you're not alone and that there is a God who truly loves you, loves you so much that he sent his son to die for you. And in doing so, he gave his life so that you could have everlasting life.
Kendal Hagee: Amen.
Matt Hagee: Heavenly Father, today I pray that those who are watching would feel the joy of the Lord, because the Bible says that, that joy is our strength. I pray that every place that there is despair and there's fear, and there's hopelessness in their situation, that you would become the God of all hope: that you would become the God who makes a way even when they cannot see there is a way. I pray for everybody who's listening that's dealt with the pain and the burden of suicide and lost loved ones to such a tragic situation. I pray that you would wrap your loving arms around them: that you would help them to recognize that you have not forgotten them: that you are the God who dries every tear that falls: and that you are the one who can take all things and work them together for good, as even for those, in every situation, for those that love you. I pray these things, in Jesus' name today. Amen and amen.
Matt Mattera: Amen.
Matt Hagee: Thank you for being with us here on "The Difference". I pray that you have the opportunity to recognize God's goodness in the land of the living: and that you realize what it means to live the life more abundantly.