Kenneth Copeland - It's Not Over in the Middle East Until We Win
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Kenneth Copeland: Hello, everybody. I'm Kenneth Copeland and this is the Believer's Voice of Victory broadcast. Would you join me again today in welcoming Marilyn Hickey to this broadcast? Praise God.
Marilyn Hickey: Thank you, thank you.
Kenneth Copeland: Marilyn, I was thinking back, you mentioned it right before we went on camera about the times back when, on the Board of Regents at Oral Roberts University, and twice a year we met there.
Marilyn Hickey: We did.
Kenneth Copeland: And some of them most wonderful times of my life were during those times.
Marilyn Hickey: I agree. Totally agree.
Kenneth Copeland: Just wonderful. I remember the first time I went to ORU, and then was blessed and as so much to be on the flight crew, Brother Roberts' airplane. And so it dawned on my lightning fast mind that hey, he couldn't get out of town without me. I was just, "Hi," kinda of like when I was scriptural illiterate when I got there and don't know much now, but I know a whole lot more than I did then.
Marilyn Hickey: A whole lot more than then.
Kenneth Copeland: Anyway, I noticed at this time, I was still a few days away from hearing my first Kenneth Hagan tape, but I was so caught up in faith. I wanted it so badly. I just consumed with my desire for it. I noticed he used his faith on purpose and it dawned on me, he uses his faith the way a mechanic uses a tool. He doesn't just shoot a scattershot like we all used to do in this, hope something happens. No, he's like a mechanic that would go to his toolbox and get a specific tool and use it on purpose. It inspired me forever and then I thought all I got to do now is find out how to get this. It wasn't but a matter of, I mean, just a few days i was invited back to Fort Worth to preach at our home church, which was Grace Temple. The moment we drove to and stayed there at mother and dad's house, and of course the moment we got there, mother grabbed Gloria and here they went off. I said, "Mama, you got any tapes or anything to listen to"? "Yeah, look in there on that tape recorder". Great big old Webcore tape recorder about this big, you know. Kenneth E. Hagan. You can write your own ticket with God on one side and Paul's revelation on the other, and I listened to there's, you know, about two and a half hours on both sides of that big seven inch reel. I wound up underneath my mother's coffee table.
Marilyn Hickey: Oh my goodness.
Kenneth Copeland: I had my New Testament in my pocket, which I carried all the time. I took it out and I had all of a sudden, I was so caught up in it. I thought the whole answer is right here. All I have to do is put this in my mouth. I can do this. I can do this. I have faith. It's in me now. How was this... I could hardly stand myself. I was so thrilled with it and I'm just as thrilled with it today as I was back to then.
Marilyn Hickey: Oh, great. Oh, great.
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah, glory to God.
Marilyn Hickey: Sweetest thing.
Kenneth Copeland: I want to hear more about Pakistan.
Marilyn Hickey: Well, Pakistan was interesting to me because when I started praying over nations, I had a warm heart.
Kenneth Copeland: Let me interrupt you just there for a moment, because I heard you say this, that and where you stand before a map of nations and you pray for them, literally praying for the nations. Not just praying for them, but you have them in your vision, in your eyes. I think that is so vitally important. That really impressed me.
Marilyn Hickey: Well, you know, I memorized the nations of the world for one year. I prayed every day over every nation.
Kenneth Copeland: My goodness.
Marilyn Hickey: But I mean, it wasn't long prayer. It took about an hour and a half at the most. And so I would just hit them. But when I hit the Islamic nations, I would stop. It was like a fire in my heart.
Kenneth Copeland: And it lit up, didn't it?
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah, it lit up. And a man came to our city from Pakistan, a Christian leader, and wanted people to come and speak in Pakistan. I met with him and he said, "Well, if you say you'll come, you have to come. Because most Americans back out".
Marilyn Hickey: So I said, "I will come and I will do it". So we set a time and I went over and met with these pastors, Christian pastors, who were really very afraid. And so I said, you know, "I believe," and I saw that angel in the room, towering above.
Kenneth Copeland: Yes, amen.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah, and so I said, "I believe God will take care of us and I'm going to advertise". So I put up, oh brother, all these signs. I had my head covered.
Kenneth Copeland: Of course.
Marilyn Hickey: They dress beautifully. And so I put my face with a covered head. And then I said, "Come and be healed". Well I had people who said to me, "Well, nobody will come because you're a woman". But the first day we had 4,000 people, and by the last we had over 20,000. So Kenneth, I literally got infected with Pakistan and I thought, "If these people can be reached with healing," because I always taught a miracle of Jesus and prayed for the sick and invited people to be saved, always all together. And so I thought, "This could be a marvelous opportunity for healing".
Kenneth Copeland: I love it.
Marilyn Hickey: So then I wanted to go back in two years and I got some criticism about it. Not from my family, not from Wally ever, but I went back and it was much bigger. So we had like 14, 16,000, and then I went again and we had over 100,000, and that just infected me.
Kenneth Copeland: Oh, I could imagine.
Marilyn Hickey: So my biggest crowd has been over a million people, but I would say a third of those stood for salvation. But the dinner bell is healing.
Kenneth Copeland: The healing.
Marilyn Hickey: And some of the miracles.
Kenneth Copeland: Always the healing.
Marilyn Hickey: Always the healing, yeah. Some of the miracles, like a little boy born without an eye got a new eye.
Kenneth Copeland: Tell me about that.
Marilyn Hickey: Some of the miracles that happened, you are floored by it. And Kenneth, I had to have, I want to say like general faith. I didn't have, some people have faith for specific things. There's going to be somebody here with a shoulder out of place.
Marilyn Hickey: But basically I don't get those until I get up there. But I spent time in prayer and time in the word. So this one where we had a million, that's really a big deal for me to have a million people. That's five acres of land. And we went out and you cover them with a carpet because they sit on the ground and they squish close together. So you look out and see acres of people seated there and you feel in awe of God.
Kenneth Copeland: Oh, my, my.
Marilyn Hickey: And so I always preach a miracle of Jesus, always have a salvation altar call, but I do something sneaky. You want to hear something?
Kenneth Copeland: Yes, I do.
Marilyn Hickey: Well you know how can you do follow up? Because you don't want to lose them. You want to help them. And so what I do is I say, "Now maybe you have a family member or someone who's sick, and you'd like for me to just pray over them in general tomorrow night we'll put them in baskets up here".
Marilyn Hickey: So, oh, everybody wants that. So they pass out all these cards. Well, the card has your name and address and everything on it. So then they were, and everybody wants their cards up there, so they bring them up and you have these baskets and baskets of cards, and then you have them stand and you pray over all those cards.
Marilyn Hickey: But I always have one day when I just minister to Christians and I may have eight or 10,000 Christians. I just spend the day with them. Then they do the follow up.
Kenneth Copeland: Oh my goodness.
Marilyn Hickey: And they also do the ushering.
Kenneth Copeland: God's plan. God's plan.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah, so you know, you use everything. So I don't try to do follow up on my own. I have literature, but I don't try to do follow up. They do the follow up and they're excited about it. So they're pushing me to come again. They don't have to push me very hard to come again.
Marilyn Hickey: But now Saudi Arabia is opening up.
Kenneth Copeland: Praise God, Marilyn.
Marilyn Hickey: And Kenneth, CBS wants to come and do the meeting.
Kenneth Copeland: My, my, my.
Marilyn Hickey: And they've done another one for me in Pakistan. They did the one with a million, and I do...
Kenneth Copeland: I remember that.
Marilyn Hickey: Do you remember when they did it?
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah, I remembered we prayed and agreed over that.
Marilyn Hickey: Oh, right. You're right.
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marilyn Hickey: You're right. You're right. They did it. Now they want to do another one in Saudi Arabia.
Kenneth Copeland: Oh, my goodness.
Marilyn Hickey: And that will be quite a miracle. Now, they let me because the man I work with is a strong Christian, J.B. Brown. Do you know who this is?
Kenneth Copeland: No, ma'am.
Marilyn Hickey: He's a sportscaster. He's a big sportscaster, African-American. He is as turned on to God as anybody I know. He's one of the sweetest people I know and so he is the one that goes with me from CBS and another man from CBS, and he's constantly doing things, taping things. So he said, and God is so cool. He said, "Are you here to convert Muslims"? Now, this is going to go all over the world with CBS and God is so good. I said, "No, no. I'm not here to convert them. I'm here to transform them".
Kenneth Copeland: Praise God, yeah.
Marilyn Hickey: The Holy Ghost.
Kenneth Copeland: Oh, yes, glory to God.
Marilyn Hickey: So we want to go back and do some more things in Pakistan, but I really want to get into Saudi. I think it's very necessary. And these imams who like me, Kenneth, they call me mom.
Kenneth Copeland: Praise God.
Marilyn Hickey: Being old and being a woman is really good.
Kenneth Copeland: It's really good, yeah. Oh, that's perfect.
Marilyn Hickey: But I think the Mideast is really opening up because when I see what's going on in Egypt and if you have a healing meeting in Egypt, they come from everyplace. They come from everyplace.
Kenneth Copeland: That is marvelous.
Marilyn Hickey: And it isn't, you know, sometimes you're tired, you don't feel so spiritual. It's not how you feel.
Kenneth Copeland: No.
Marilyn Hickey: It's what he says.
Kenneth Copeland: No, yeah, absolutely.
Marilyn Hickey: It's the word, yeah.
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah, the word is the same whether you feel good or not.
Marilyn Hickey: I know. It's the same. It's not your feeling that heels them.
Kenneth Copeland: You know, we were in a situation a number of years ago and it was very much like this. It was before we had, our airplane was not international and so, and we'd been to three different places, and I was extremely tired. I was just to the point of being exhausted, and I was so ready to come home. They said, "Well, would you consider just going over to just across the border here a little ways"? Oh, I did not want to do it. The Lord said, "Go". Okay.
Kenneth Copeland: We went into that meeting that night and I was just rummy. So when I'm that way, I just head straight to Mark 11:23 because I can preach Mark 11:23 and be half asleep. I mean, it just comes out, and besides that, that's predominately what I'm called to teach and preach. So I did that, and I thought, "Well, now we can go back to the room".
Kenneth Copeland: They said, "We have prepared just a small dinner for you and Gloria," and so we got in there and I don't have any idea of what time it is in the whole world, and we're in the Switzerland, Sweden part of the world, and there was, oh, I would say about as many people as there are here today. 15, 20, maybe in a hotel, just a little small meeting room. Very nice. And by this time it's 12:30.
Marilyn Hickey: They eat late.
Kenneth Copeland: This man said, "Brother Copeland, before we go, would you possibly have a word for us"? I opened my mouth to say, "No". I didn't, and my point is, the brain doesn't have anything to do with this, and how your physical feelings don't have anything to do with this. I opened my mouth and I began to prophesy and I began to talk about national things and insights into different things and these guys got out on the edge of their seat. Once we got through and he said, "Has anybody talked to you about any of what we're doing"? I said, "No". "You don't know anything about who we are"? I said, "No, I don't know other than I was just invited by the brother here to take this detour and come over and speak in the tent, which I did. He said, "We are in the business of," how did he put that? Lord, I don't want to... he didn't use the word underground, but he said, "We are in the process of changing this nation and taking it away from the government that has it now". And I listened up and he said, "You hit it, you talked it, you set it right on the mark," and Marilyn, they did it.
Marilyn Hickey: Wow, really?
Kenneth Copeland: And they did it with prayer and intercession and they got it done. And part of them, if I remember this correctly, there was one or two of them that went into the government. Of course, this was many years ago, and it changed where communism had been encroaching. It just changed it and it moved it out.
Marilyn Hickey: See, Kenneth, that's what I want to say to people. You can change the news, because people gripe about the news. Well, they don't like this decision. They don't like this. Shut up. Change the news. I believe God called you to be a news changer.
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah, that's right.
Marilyn Hickey: And I believe all of us are.
Kenneth Copeland: I believe that.
Marilyn Hickey: And so I'm pointing my finger at you. It's you.
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah, and you can use a news broadcast if you control your temper and let the news speak to you. I need to be talking to this. I need to be dealing with this. And in my hour and a half or so every morning when I pray for my partner, but I don't pray for my partners first. I pray for, first of all, 1 Timothy 2. First of all you pray for all men, king, and all in authority and so forth. When you begin to move in then, it's particularly, especially difficult for me because I love this country, and particularly Donald Trump is the first president, no, the second president that I've known personally. I knew George Bush and had prayed with him and for him. But this man is a very unique man and he's been especially placed in that office by God.
Marilyn Hickey: I agree.
Kenneth Copeland: So, and when I see people just cursing him, saying that he's a racist. There's not a racist bone in the man's body. He loves God and he doesn't have religious language.
Marilyn Hickey: That's obvious.
Kenneth Copeland: He doesn't speak churchism.
Marilyn Hickey: No.
Kenneth Copeland: He just says what he thinks. If you don't like it, then... But I know his heart and I know the people around him, very, very closely, the people that are around him. But when you begin to pray and you take the time, you have to do it every day.
Marilyn Hickey: Absolutely.
Kenneth Copeland: You have to do it every day. It has to become part of your regimen, and if you're too busy, then you're just too busy. And I'm a busy man, but I get up 5:45.
Marilyn Hickey: Go for it.
Kenneth Copeland: Go out on my deck. I don't like to be inside. Gloria said the older I get, the more Indian I get. I don't like the indoors at all.
Marilyn Hickey: Okay.
Kenneth Copeland: I go out on my deck. If it gets wintertime, I got heaters, you know?
Marilyn Hickey: Yep.
Kenneth Copeland: And so our little place at Steamboat, I got heaters on the deck.
Marilyn Hickey: That's the way to go. Good for you. Good for you.
Kenneth Copeland: Anyway, the whole thing of it is, I have two things that I have to do every day. I have to pray in the name of Jesus and I have to pray for my nation. I have to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. I have to pray for my President and the Vice President, and then I have to pray for all of my partners all over the world.
Marilyn Hickey: Of course.
Kenneth Copeland: I take countries and nations and we have staff all over the world and go through all of that. It takes, easy, an hour and a half, every day. And then comes the treadmill.
Marilyn Hickey: Yuck three times.
Kenneth Copeland: But you've got to do it.
Marilyn Hickey: You do.
Kenneth Copeland: I have a mandate on my life to live this thing out until Jesus comes or I'm 120 years old before I go. God asked me to do that. I have to do it. Well, you're my inspiration, girl. I can do this thing. Glory to God, hallelujah.
Marilyn Hickey: I haven't set 120 for myself. My son-in-law has. He always says "You're going to live".
Kenneth Copeland: For you.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah, for me. "You're going to live to 120," and I say, "Shut up".
Kenneth Copeland: Well, I didn't jump to that conclusion quickly. Gloria began to talk about that in healing school, and particularly from the footnote in the 90th Psalm from the Classic Amplified, and then began to talk about Genesis 6:3, and that just began to grow and it began to grow and grow, and suddenly what I call, it just kind of went widescreen. I began to see that I didn't have the right to choose what long life was. It already had been spoken by God himself.
Marilyn Hickey: Oh my goodness, I wish you hadn't told me that.
Kenneth Copeland: I said, "I," not you. Not Marilyn. Kenneth. Because he just kept talking to me about that and kept talking about it. And then, Marilyn, what I saw, all the food laws are based on that. A long life, I will satisfy you and show you my salvation is based on that, because that's in the first six chapters of Genesis. Anyway, you don't quit.
Marilyn Hickey: No.
Kenneth Copeland: You never quit.
Marilyn Hickey: That's the big key. It's not over until you win.
Kenneth Copeland: That's the name of the book. Glory to God.
Marilyn Hickey: That's the name of the book because...
Kenneth Copeland: And we're out of time.
Marilyn Hickey: Okay.