Kenneth Copeland - If You Can See It, You Can Change It And Win
Hello everybody. Welcome to the Believer's Voice of Victory broadcast. Let's have a word of prayer and we get right into today's lesson.
Father, thank you so much. We praise you and we honor you today, and we call upon the mighty one that lives within us, or the greater one. Greater is he that's in us than he that's in the world. We give you praise and thanksgiving today, sir. In the name of Jesus, we declare the perfect will of God be carried out on this broadcast today. In Jesus' name, amen.
Kenneth Copeland: Join me again today in welcoming Marilyn Hickey to this broadcast. Excuse me.
Marilyn Hickey: Thank you.
Kenneth Copeland: Isn't she absolutely wonderful? Glory to God. Marilyn, I noticed in our notes this scripture in 2nd Corinthians chapter 4, 18th verse. Oh, excuse me. This is verse 17, "For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, but only..." That doesn't work, "Unless we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporal," or they're temporary and subject to change. "But the things which are not seen are eternal". I noticed this from your notes. If we can see it, we can change it.
Marilyn Hickey: We can do it, yeah.
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah. If we can see it, we can change it, praise God, without faith and the glory of God.
Marilyn Hickey: Right. Without that, you can't.
Kenneth Copeland: No, uh-uh.
Marilyn Hickey: You try to do it yourself, you bomb.
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah. Now we're talking about Marilyn's new book, It's Not Over Till You Win. I remember the great Yankee catcher Yogi Berra, "It ain't over till it's over".
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah.
Kenneth Copeland: He said things like, "If you come to a fork in the road, take it". When you come up with something that is impossible, change it.
Marilyn Hickey: Right.
Kenneth Copeland: They told you you would never have children.
Marilyn Hickey: Right.
Kenneth Copeland: I want to hear that story. I want to know how ... I want to know how Susan actually came into this world.
Marilyn Hickey: Sarah.
Kenneth Copeland: Sarah, excuse me.
Marilyn Hickey: My Sarah.
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah, Sarah. Excuse me.
Marilyn Hickey: Well, actually we wanted children, and so we thought probably within the second or third year we would have a child, and I didn't. Then we had prayer, nothing seemed to happen, and William Branham spoke at a Voice of Healing conference and we-
Kenneth Copeland: Now, talk a minute about-
Marilyn Hickey: About him.
Kenneth Copeland: About William Branham, because most of the younger generation don't know anything about him.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah. He was definitely a prophet, but he had the most unusual gifting I have ever seen of a knowing, like a word of knowledge or a word of wisdom. We had had my aunt and uncle come up from Dalhart, Texas to his meeting in Denver, because they had a granddaughter who had never walked and they said she never would. They came up to the meeting, and 5.000 people are there. He comes out. He's just a little, small man, not very pretentious, and he just stands there and he said, "The angel of the Lord will come". I'm thinking, "Oh sure". I'm just being doubtful. You could feel it when the angel came.
Kenneth Copeland: My, my, Marilyn.
Marilyn Hickey: He looked out into the audience and he ministered to different people, but he ministered to my aunt and uncle from Dalhart and he said, "You never told him what you had. He told you". He said, "You have a granddaughter who's never walked, and when you go home, she'll be walking". Well, my aunt and uncle were so excited, they jumped in the car and drove to Dalhart, 440-some miles, and Jerry was walking.
Kenneth Copeland: Glory to God. My, my.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah. Then in this same meeting, he calls me out and said, "You're not from here. You're from a wooded area. You're from Denver, Colorado". Now this is a very unusual experience that I'm going to share here with you, but it was like a wheel within a wheel circling. I could hear it. This wheel went whoosh, whoosh, and it frightened me. I thought, "That's the presence of God between us. If I step into that, I'll die". He said to me, "You're not from here. You're from a wooded area. You're from Denver, Colorado. You can't have a baby. Go home and receive your baby," and the wheel within a wheel came into my feet.
Kenneth Copeland: Oh, Marilyn.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah. I really had a supernatural life. We went home thinking, "Oh, in a year we'll have a baby". We didn't. 10 years. I went to a doctor. He said, "It's impossible for you to have a baby". After 10 years, I began to have some changes, so I went to a doctor and he said, "Well, you're just going through the change of life. It's impossible for you to have a baby". Well, I went home with some changes, and that was Sarah. That was Sarah.
Kenneth Copeland: Little Sarah.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah, that was Sarah.
Kenneth Copeland: My, my, my.
Marilyn Hickey: See, I think we get into the Word, the power of the Holy Spirit, we enter into a supernatural life. I'm no big name of any kind, born in Dalhart, Texas, lived in a little three room house that my father built in the dust bowl. I remember the dust bowl, all those things. But when you get into the Word-
Kenneth Copeland: It changes everything.
Marilyn Hickey: If you, we'll get into your Bible daily and let your Bible get into you, you will have a supernatural life. I speak that to you.
Kenneth Copeland: Absolutely.
Marilyn Hickey: You will.
Kenneth Copeland: Absolutely. That brings up the faithfulness of God number one.
Marilyn Hickey: Yes, yes. It does.
Kenneth Copeland: The faithfulness of the Word, and that time itself doesn't enter into this equation.
Marilyn Hickey: Nope.
Kenneth Copeland: You can't quit now.
Marilyn Hickey: No. No, that's big.
Kenneth Copeland: You cannot quit.
Marilyn Hickey: That's big.
Kenneth Copeland: You must not quit. Once you have the Word on it and once it's been ministered to you, don't you ever quit. I don't care. I don't care what the devil does. Praise God. You don't ever quit.
Marilyn Hickey: Nope.
Kenneth Copeland: You just stay with the Word. You get get tired and you think, "When is this ever going to come to pass"? Shut that up. What difference does it make to you? Come on. You have to be hard on yourself.
Marilyn Hickey: You do.
Kenneth Copeland: If this was easy, everybody'd be doing it.
Marilyn Hickey: Yep.
Kenneth Copeland: But I'm telling you, the victory is worth every price you have to pay.
Marilyn Hickey: It is. It is.
Kenneth Copeland: That one woman along with you has helped change the face of this planet. Praise God.
Marilyn Hickey: We don't give up till we win.
Kenneth Copeland: No.
Marilyn Hickey: But I think, and you teach it so well, speaking the Word every day, every day. Sometimes you wake up, you feel as spiritual as a mouse, but you speak the promises.
Kenneth Copeland: Yes.
Marilyn Hickey: I'll tell you a little thing I do. I say in the morning, "Good morning, Father. Good morning, Jesus. Good morning, Holy Spirit. This is your beloved Marilyn," because over 60 times in the New Testament, he calls me beloved.
Kenneth Copeland: Yes, that's right.
Marilyn Hickey: Then I speak the promises that go with the problems. Now, I do it at night too, so I say, I go to bed, "Good night, Father. Good night, Jesus. Good night, Holy Spirit. This is your beloved Marilyn. Thank you for sweet sleep".
Kenneth Copeland: Yes.
Marilyn Hickey: Because I travel all over the world in crazy times and thing, and look how healthy I am. I'm 88 years old. Come on.
Kenneth Copeland: Hallelujah.
Marilyn Hickey: And doing more now than in my 40s.
Kenneth Copeland: Well, you have to learn to sleep by faith. You have to learn-
Marilyn Hickey: Right.
Kenneth Copeland: Particularly when you're, like you're saying, you're traveling all over the place. You're in a different place all the time. Talking about when the apostle Peter was talking about the light shining in a dark place. Well, it only takes a little bit of light to orient yourself. We had gone from one hotel to the other, and when I got up ... This was the second hotel, and in the other one, the restroom was over here.
Marilyn Hickey: Oh, no.
Kenneth Copeland: In this one, it was someplace else.
Marilyn Hickey: Oh, no.
Kenneth Copeland: I got up and just walked slam into the wall. Then, I didn't know where on this earth I was. I'm looking around, and then I saw the light coming under the door that went out into the hall and I thought, "Oh, yeah".
Kenneth Copeland: That's what the Word does. It'll reorient you. It'll bring you back to that place where you don't care how tired you think you are, or where you think you should be and you're not. That is immaterial. Once you got the Word-
Marilyn Hickey: Oh, that's so good.
Kenneth Copeland: You don't believe anything.
Marilyn Hickey: So good, so good!
Kenneth Copeland: You don't say anything else. You get up talking this, just like she's talking about. You go to bed talking this. Just like Gloria and I still, I mean just last night we go to bed with Brother Hagin in the phone.
Marilyn Hickey: That's good.
Kenneth Copeland: He's been in glory since 2003, and he's still teaching us. Glory to God. Who would've ever thought you'd had a phone full of Brother Hagin? Marilyn, I want to tell you something funny.
Marilyn Hickey: Okay.
Kenneth Copeland: With this particular one, it was a message that he had preached and he talked about when his son-in-law buddy had gone home to be with the Lord.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah.
Kenneth Copeland: Somebody told me about that and I'd never heard him talk about that and I wanted to hear it. I got my iPad and set the iPad up on a little stand there between the two of us, so we watched that whole service. Just as we got right to the end of it and I leaned over there to kiss her good night, she said, "Not in front of Brother Hagin"!
Marilyn Hickey: Oh, dear. That's hilarious.
Kenneth Copeland: That's Gloria, you know. But hey, this is what the Victory Network is all about, total immersion, total immersion in this book, total immersion.
Marilyn Hickey: Yes, good.
Kenneth Copeland: Because faith cometh by hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing, and it needs to be coming out your mouth, and it needs to be coming out ... You need to be hearing it preached. You need to be living it, praise God, and you don't ever change. You be like Jesus. You change not, glory to God. Amen, unless he says to. Amen.
Marilyn Hickey: Amen. Amen.
Kenneth Copeland: You can change things.
Marilyn Hickey: You can. You can speak to mountains.
Kenneth Copeland: Who was the radio preacher? I think it was Doctor Webber, way, way back, and he said, "Jesus is on the throne and prayer changes things". I'll never forget it. This and back Kenneth BC. I mean, I'll never forget here hearing Doctor Webber, "Jesus is on the throne and prayer changes things". Glory to God.
Marilyn Hickey: I have to tell you something hilarious right here. You know, I go to Pakistan. I go to these different countries, so I have jet lag. I'm supposed to get up and speak to maybe a million people. Sometimes we have a million people in a meeting, and I don't feel spiritual. I just have jet lag. I said to the Lord, "Oh, I have jet lag. I don't feel spiritual". He said, "I don't".
Kenneth Copeland: Oh, that's good.
Marilyn Hickey: That was so helpful to me. You get where you learn how to live in what he says instead of what you see or what you feel. You're tired. But there's big revival going on in the Mid East, big revival.
Kenneth Copeland: Let's talk about that. Marilyn.
Marilyn Hickey: Especially-
Kenneth Copeland: I'm so interested in that.
Marilyn Hickey: In Egypt. Especially in Egypt. We go into Egypt, we're going to go out into some of the other parts and have healing meetings where people don't go. Sometimes they're considered dangerous. I really don't think they are. Seriously, I don't. We get into this nice hotel in Cairo. We stay at a nice hotel. We want clean water, clean food. These two girls are checking us in, the concierge, and they said, "You're Christians"? Wanda was with me, my assistant, and we said, "Yes". They said, "Could you tell us how to get saved? We don't want to go to hell".
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah!
Marilyn Hickey: "Am I hearing this"? That's what's going on in the Mid East. It's big. You don't hear it on the news, but it's-
Kenneth Copeland: That wouldn't have happened without you being there. You had to-
Marilyn Hickey: Well I was I'm sure a part of it.
Kenneth Copeland: You have to be where God wanted you to be for that woman.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah. You know, I go way back to Egypt when Wally and I were just doing sightseeing. We're there on a vacation. He loves antiquities, so we're looking at the antiquities and I said, "You know, I'd like to speak someplace here". He said, "Well, we don't know anybody". I said, "Well, there's an Anglican church over here. I'm going to go over and ask". We went, and the poor guy said, "Yes. Yeah, you can speak". I got up to speak, and I had a word of knowledge about somebody in the church. There were maybe 800 or 900 people sitting there in that cathedral like thing. I spoke to this woman, Orpha. Now she's the assistant to the president. I have her picture with me.
Kenneth Copeland: Marilyn, if that's not a divine destiny on her.
Marilyn Hickey: Oh, God. I know, I know. He is open. The new president is quite open, and I don't think you can go any place in Egypt and not have a big healing meeting. If you put out the sign, we're going to have a healing meeting, they'll jam it out.
Kenneth Copeland: Well, now you know, you go back several years, before Brother Hagin departed, and there was an Egyptian general, his wife had cancer. They ask if they could bring her to Rhema.
Marilyn Hickey: I didn't hear that.
Kenneth Copeland: They're in Tulsa, you know.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah.
Kenneth Copeland: To bring her, and Brother Hagin said, "Well, I'll tell you what. Instead of bringing her to healing school, bring her to prayer school". All of the students in there gathered up around her. She had cancer. God healed her. I mean just totally, absolutely ... She was fourth stage cancer if I remember correctly.
Kenneth Copeland: Now wait a minute. Let me back up. I left something very important out. Someone had given her his little booklet, God's Medicine, and she got in that and she just studied it,, and studied it and studied it. She spoke English and so did the person that gave her that. Well, she just kept studying that and studying that. She said, "I need to go. I need to go here," so he put her in his airplane and flew her to Tulsa.
Kenneth Copeland: Well, I mean this guy is still a Muslim, but he said, "I'm going to have these books printed. May I have the right to have these translated and have them printed"? He said, "They need to go out everywhere". He eventually, of course, got saved. But he did all of that before he accepted Jesus as Lord, because his wife got healed.
Marilyn Hickey: Exactly.
Kenneth Copeland: Glory to God.
Marilyn Hickey: See, healing is the dinner bell.
Kenneth Copeland: It always has been.
Marilyn Hickey: It is the dinner bell.
Kenneth Copeland: It is.
Marilyn Hickey: But right now if you were to go to Egypt today and say, "Okay, I'm going to have a meeting in a stadium in Cairo," they would come out. They don't know your name, but they would come out to be healed, and then they get saved.
Kenneth Copeland: That's most amazing.
Marilyn Hickey: I know it. I don't think you could go any place in Egypt and not have a big healing meeting. You just can't hold them all. You can't get them all in. We had 20.000. They jammed it out and we had to turn people away. We had them outside. We had every place. Then we did a children's meeting during our meeting. I mean, we did everything to shake the trees. When you're there, you just everything you can do, and you leave ... I always leave literature in their language, because books work while you sleep.
Kenneth Copeland: Oh, that's right.
Marilyn Hickey: They work while you sleep.
Kenneth Copeland: Absolutely.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah.
Kenneth Copeland: Well now, that same thing happened in Pakistan, didn't it?
Marilyn Hickey: Oh, Pakistan is big for me. The first time I went to Pakistan was '89. I think I wrote you and told you I was going to go and asked you to pray. I think you thought-
Kenneth Copeland: And we did.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah. I went and people said, "You know, they hate women. They hate Christians. They're going to kill you," but God said to me to go, so I go. I get in touch with some Christians, and they said, "We don't want to advertise the meeting because they'll kill us". I thought, "You know, I'm going to advertise the meeting". I said, "Well, let's just pray about it before you say no to me". We prayed, and I don't have a lot of vision, but I saw an angel whose head went up above the ceiling of the hotel.
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah.
Marilyn Hickey: They said, okay. They said, "Well, we probably won't have anybody, because people don't come to hear women and Christians," but we had 4.000 the first night, and we had people healed. By the fourth night, we had over 20.000 people.
Kenneth Copeland: Glory to God.
Marilyn Hickey: People saved, people healed. A little boy, not in that meeting, but in another meeting, got a new eye. I mean, it's like, Kenneth, it's like God bends over to do things.
Kenneth Copeland: Don't you know. Oh, my, my.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah, so that hooks me. That hooked me. You know, I've been going, and I was prophesied to by the Osborns. Do you remember Daisy and T.L.?
Kenneth Copeland: Oh, absolutely. Oh, absolutely.
Marilyn Hickey: Daisy met me. I was on radio, and she said ... I'd just met her. She said, "You're going to go to leaders of nations and you'll be a world evangelist". I thought ... I'll tell you what I thought. Daisy and crazy rhyme.
Kenneth Copeland: I'm telling you, if Daisy said it, it came to pass.
Marilyn Hickey: Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Kenneth Copeland: Yeah.
Marilyn Hickey: You know, again, I want to encourage people, it's a process. You don't jump from here to there. You didn't jump to a worldwide ministry.
Kenneth Copeland: No, no. No.
Marilyn Hickey: You started with process. I remember how you started.
Kenneth Copeland: You were talking about the little house. I was six weeks old when we left Lubbock and went to Abilene, and we were out there year before last, so we drove by and looked at that little house. Oh, my goodness. It was so tiny.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah.
Kenneth Copeland: It was a little four room house. I looked at that house and I thought, "Did I ever live in a house that small"? It was so tiny. Then we moved from there to just a few blocks away, and it was a little bit bigger. It was five rooms. Whoa, it was really a nice place.
Marilyn Hickey: Yeah, I know.
Kenneth Copeland: But you start where you are.
Marilyn Hickey: Right.
Kenneth Copeland: I was watching Gloria and Pastor George on today's broadcast today while I was on the treadmill earlier this morning, and Gloria kept saying that, "You have to start where you are".
Marilyn Hickey: Right.
Kenneth Copeland: Then when she and I finally obeyed God, when I finally obeyed God and went to ORU, that little house, it was one of those little project houses down close to the river.
Marilyn Hickey: I know that area, yeah.
Kenneth Copeland: They condemned all of them up to my house. But when I drove Brother Roberts to the first partner service that I took him and wanted to be a partner so badly, I went home and told Gloria, I said, "We're a partner with the Oral Roberts for $10 a month," her feathers fell. She said, "Where are we ever going to get $10 a month"?
Marilyn Hickey: Yep.
Kenneth Copeland: I said, "Gloria"! I preached the message to her, and then she got excited about it.