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Kenneth Copeland - The Interaction Between the Spirit and the Mind

KENNETH: Hello everybody. I'm Kenneth Copeland. Welcome to the Believers Voice of Victory Broadcast. Let's have a word of prayer. We'll get right into today's Bible lesson. Father, we thank you today. We give you praise and honor and glory for this broadcast and we pray for this entire television, radio audience all over the world. We lift our faith to you, Lord, for revelation from heaven.

GLORIA: Mm-hmm. Thank you.

KENNETH: We open our hearts and ears and we thank you for it, in Jesus' name. Amen.


KENNETH: Praise God. We have a wonderful guest today and she's no stranger to the Believers Voice of Victory network and to the Believers Voice of Victory Broadcast and to all of our long time partners, glory to God, Dr. Caroline Leaf is here. Praise the Lord. Come on. Come on. Amen.


KENNETH: Amen. Glory to God.


KENNETH: Thank you, Caroline, for coming. We're going to be having a good time, all this week and next. And, we're going to be studying from Caroline's new book, Think, Learn, and Succeed. Understanding and Using Your Mind to Thrive at School, the Workplace, and Life. Glory to God. Let's start with this scripture. 2nd Timothy 1:7. For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. A sound mind needs a healthy brain through which to work.


KENNETH: You know, we've talked about this many times before, but it's amazing to me that it still has to be thought through, even today.


KENNETH: That you don't lose your mind because your mind is part of your soul.


KENNETH: And, your soul, is inside your spirit, the real you.


KENNETH: The problem is with the brain. When the mind cannot express itself or in some way malfunctioning and people say, "He's lost his mind". That ain't lost his mind. He's got a health problem with the brain. That can be proven very easily. You remember the rich man that died? Carried into hell. He recognized Father Abraham and Abraham said, "Remember, remember". His memory was intact. In fact, it was working better than it had before because he'd never met Abraham, but he knew him. So, where was the brain? It was in the ground somewhere, where the rest of his body was decaying, but his mind, and he's still emotional. He was emotional over his family. His emotions were intact. His mind was intact. His memory was intact. So, once you realize that the mind needs the brain. The brain is a physical organ. So now, I've said my piece and I'm going to just get to set here now for the next 10 days and just listen.

GLORIA: Y'all believe that, don't you?

KENNETH: Come on, Gloria. Give me a break. I've learned so much from this woman and been so inspired by her and by her books and so this is a new one. I'm going to learn right along with you today from Caroline's new book.

CAROLINE LEAF: Thank you. You always get the points. You always say it so well. I remember you and I spending a couple of hours discussing this Scripture. It was fascinating and you know, if you look at it from a scientific angle, what I've been studying for the last 30 years is the mind/brain connection. The research specifically that I've done and developed theories on and clinical application and that kind of thing, is on understanding that our spiritual nature is actually the 99% of who we are and then our physical nature, which is the brain and the body, is only the 1%. So, it doesn't mean the brain and the body aren't important, you've got to look after them because the mind works, the nonphysical spiritual works through the brain. So, it's very important that we look off to both and recognize what we call dualism, the dualistic interaction between the spirits and the physical. So we need to look after our mind, and we need to look after our brain and our body. So it's literally being a steward of creation when you look after what your mind is... so when you started with that scripture, which is one that I quote every time I open my mouth, literally to teach this stuff, the first thing you said is we have a power, our mind is powerful. The second thing you said, love. And the third thing you said is soundness. And those are three things that I have researched scientifically, because why scientifically? Well science comes from the word Sclura, Sclura means knowledge, and all knowledge is from God, we know that. So when you talk about science, you're not just talking about brain science or physics or chemistry, we're talking about knowledge, all knowledge. And all knowledge comes from God. So if we look the way I see the connection between spirituality and science is a very strong connection to help us understand the mind-brain connection, or the mind-body connection. Because science is God's stuff. So science shows us how to use this powerful mind. How to renew our mind, how to bring thoughts into captivity. So science is simply God's How-To of the spiritual principles. So it's such a logical link to bring science in and mix it in with spirituality. I mean you can't understand the one without the other.

KENNETH: That's right.

CAROLINE LEAF: So I often tell people if I don't say another scripture today, it doesn't mean that I don't respect the scriptures. It means that I'm speaking God's knowledge, because I'm speaking science which is the practical side of God. If you want to put it that way, it's the How To.

KENNETH: A number of years ago, a survey of university campuses in the United States with this question. Do you think God understands radar?

CAROLINE LEAF: Oh what a question.

KENNETH: And it was shocking how many college age people said, no. Come on. I mean you where they first got the idea of radar, from a bat.


KENNETH: God created the bat, he had radar long before anybody else did because he's blind but he never misses a target.


KENNETH: And so to ignore science is foolish.

CAROLINE LEAF: Very foolish.

KENNETH: To misuse science is equally foolish.


KENNETH: To put science in a place above the word of God is stupid.

CAROLINE LEAF: You won't interpret the science correctly if you don't interpret it spiritually.


CAROLINE LEAF: So you have to have that balance, you know in science we talk about the non-physical, in scripture or in the bible you are talking about the spiritual. It's the equivalent thing. So your spirit is that 99% where your mind is, as you said, and that's your thinking, and your feeling, and your choosing. And it's filled with power, and its design is one of love. So if we look at scientifically, what does it mean to have a powerful mind? Well the word power means that it's going to at least impact, power means that there's going to be change as a result of whatever. And love, if we look at that scientifically, we see that the brain and the body, and the mind are wired for love. So...

KENNETH: Well they were created by love.

CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly. So if that's our default mode, our default mode of operation is one of love, power, and soundness. That means that we are capable of operating in that zone that we're supposed to operate in which is that love zone. Where we think, and feel, and choose to succeed meaningfully, and that can impact in love, and fulfill the purpose that we call to fulfill. So essentially what I'm trying to teach people in all my work, including in this book, is that that is your design. So we need to learn how to access that design. And there's something in these years of research on the science of the brain, that is something that I have been trying to understand, and now finally science has really shown this. But when we read that scripture, bring all thoughts into captivity, it's all part of that whole bringing down strongholds, and so on. But bring all thoughts into captivity. Most people say that scripture without really thinking what that means. The average person thinks about 30000 to 180000 thoughts a day, something in that range maybe more. And we're supposed to bring all 30000 to 180000 thoughts into captivity to cross Jesus every day. That means that every waking moment, and every sleeping moment, we're supposed to be capturing those thoughts in a very self-regulated way. So they may look at science and think well how on earth do I control my every single thought? I mean think of that it's actually quite a challenge.

KENNETH: Let's read that scripture. Because you just fired...

CAROLINE LEAF: I just fired...

KENNETH: In my thinking. In 2 Corinthians 10, "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds" And the thought that came across my, just flashed across my mind while you were talking there, those numbers are impossible.

CAROLINE LEAF: They're huge.

KENNETH: To the natural mind.


KENNETH: That's just too much.


KENNETH: But not when you're using the mighty weapons of our warfare which are spiritual and not carnal.


KENNETH: That not only makes it doable, it makes it mandatory.

CAROLINE LEAF: Essential. Exactly it's essential.

KENNETH: This is not optional.


KENNETH: Casting down imaginations, or reasonings, and every high thing that exhausts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

CAROLINE LEAF: So that's an instruction.


CAROLINE LEAF: And so does God give us an instruction without equipping us to carry out the instruction? Exactly.

KENNETH: Because the weapons are mighty.

CAROLINE LEAF: Exactly. So therefore we have access through our spiritual nature to the wisdom of God. Should we choose to access the wisdom of God. Because coming along with our love design, and God creating us out of love, is the option to choose not to follow wisdom, or to follow wisdom. So that option choice always gives us the option of going in the wrong direction. So we can either choose to access that powerful, spiritual nature which is linked into God because it's through that spiritual nature, in him we love, move, and have our being. So therefore, what I try and show people is what is the spiritual nature? And how do I access the spiritual nature? What is the design practically that enables us to do this? So we see from the brain research, that this will blow your mind in a good way, we are designed to regulate our thoughts every 10 seconds. So six times every minute, we can consciously, deliberately, and intentionally bring our thoughts into captivity to cross Jesus, going into a state of what we call super position in quantum physics. And I can explain that in more depth in a moment. But we are designed to capture those thoughts every 10 seconds. How many of us six times a minute are talking to God? Are accessing the wisdom of God? That's what we're supposed to be doing, that's renewing the mind. We our entire being is designed to do that. So when we don't, we then mess up the physical brain because we're not using the power of our mind. So that brings back to the Timothy scripture, we have a powerful mind. Your mind is so powerful that your brain is attuned, because your mind and your brain are not the same thing. You brain is part of your physical nature, and it's designed, and attuned to your mind. Your mind is way more complex that your brain. And your brain, we only understand about 10% of the brain. The brain is extremely complex, but it has to be complex in order to house the power of the mind. The mind, the non-spiritual, I mean the mind is housed within spiritual as we said, and the spiritual nature of man according to science, is quantum. Quantum means beyond space and time, infinite, always, incredibly fast. So it's like when we charge our cell phones, or we charge our computers, or we're plugging into a source, that is what we're doing. And Professor Keith Ward is an Oxford Theologian, and Philosopher, and Scientist. He's in his late 80's and he has over the years researched this whole, the concept of the power of man and spirituality, and so on. And he's had a lot to do with Quantum Physicists, and Quantum Physics is an area that I'm also involved in. And he actually shows with all his research, that quantum physics is the most fundamental, and accurate of sciences. And it displays the spiritual nature of man, and the power of man to have effectiveness of choice. So Deuteronomy 30:19, " I lay before you life and death, blessing and cursing, choose life" exactly you choose, "so that you and your descendants may love". So there's power in our choices, and quantum physics, the science of quantum physics alongside the other science, but foundation shows the very powerful emergent, dynamic, quantum nature of our spiritual man, that is constantly be sourced by God. Bishop Barkley was alive 350 years ago, he was also a theologian, and a scientist that was way ahead of his time. And he said that, the only reason we exist, and I love the way he says it, is because God is looking. So because God is looking, the energy for us has to be plugged in. So all humanity's plugged into this beyond space and time, quantum nature of God. So when we get caught up in the Newtonian physics, which is brilliant physics, but the Newtonian Physics are seeing us just as physical, and that's not what Newton actually ever said. But it's how his works been interpreted. So Newton and the scientific method took away, through the spiritual aside, see the 99% doesn't matter. And what does matter is this physical. And if you can't see it, touch it, hear it, feel it, well then it doesn't count. So therefore your mind, your spirit, you true nature, your ability to choose this power, this affect that you have on generations, your generational impact of thoughts, the alive, the spark that comes into being with every thought that you think, the creative power, they ignore all of that. Meanwhile, we instinctively know, and spiritually we know from the scriptures, the power of thought, which produces the power of the spoken word. So I'm trying to blend, and show people that this is real, and how do you access? How do you immerse yourself in the wisdom of God?

KENNETH: Any time, I've noticed this over the last, I've been so enthralled in just what you're talking about ever since I found out about spirit, soul, and bonding.

CAROLINE LEAF: It's fascinating.

KENNETH: And the natural man has no idea how powerful he is.

CAROLINE LEAF: No idea at all.

KENNETH: No concept. And when they cut the study of the spirit-man out as you were saying.


KENNETH: They dumbed man down.

CAROLINE LEAF: Dehumanized us. Took all the humanity away.

KENNETH: And even suggested we're just another form of ape.

CAROLINE LEAF: Or biological automatism which is even worse. Like a computer.

KENNETH: That goes into where people don't even understand what that means, but they know what an ape is. And you get to that point, it is to completely ignore God-

CAROLINE LEAF: The spiritual nature...

KENNETH: On purpose. But those days are over for good.

CAROLINE LEAF: Well there's a history to that point. Because 350 years ago, up to 350 years ago the spiritual nature of man was what informed philosophy and science. Then Newton's Laws were discovered in the scientific method, and Newton himself was a believer in God. And he said that these laws give us an indication of the magnificence of the creator. Of the workings of knowledge. But his work was taken, and as I said, the spiritual thrown out, and we've had this 350 year decline which hit about 50 years ago. And 50 years ago we had a massive, very interesting reversal in trends. And I don't know if you're aware of this, but around about 50 years ago there was a massive shift in how we see, even more negatively, how we see ourselves in the spiritual nature of man. And also there was a massive change in how we look after our mind and our bodies. Now we see between 2014 and 2015 the CDC released results showing that research trained, and results that is very, very, very alarming, and that for decades the trend of people living longer has been increasing because of the advances in medicine and technology. So we've been living longer, and advancing, and suddenly it reversed. So people instead of living longer, are now living much shorter lives. And in fact, the next generation after us are going to live 15 to 25 years younger. The average person currently now, and the next generations are living lives 15 to 25 years shorter, and they're dying 15 to 25 years younger from preventable, lifestyle diseases. Preventable. So we have a change, and this shift started occurring 50 years ago when we really got to peek in science, and even in religion, laws, we started forgetting about the dynamic intellectual, profoundly, intrinsically inspirational, creative nature of man made in the image of a creational brilliant God. We forgot about our brilliance. And there has been a trend in religion to say don't be spiritual, don't be intellectual, you must be spiritual. Well that is a slap in God's face. Because you're saying okay well God's not intellectual, God is the designer of intellect. So when we start saying things like that, and then in science disregarding the fact that we have the ability to think, and feel, and choose, which has happened, not all science, it's an interpretation. It's not what science says at all, it's the interpretation, the incorrect interpretation of certain approaches to science. That then ignores the fact that we have this ability to choose. But the irony of it, is that these kind of scientists, and people in the world of religion that say that we're just pre-programed and so on, what they are doing is they're choosing to say that. So they say that we don't have free will, but they use their free will to say we don't have free will. So it's basically contradicting exactly what they're saying.

KENNETH: In this last minute here, as this new generation began to decline because of the way they're using and not using the faculties that God has given them, and replaced it with a video game, and that kind of thing. But anyway, I believe as that happens, the knowledge, even to the natural man of the power and the reality of the new birth, is going take a sound place, already has in a lot of places, in the scientific community. But even more, than it has in times past, and that's part of your job, and that's the reason we love, and support you because you've introduced this now for last many years, and affected a lot of scientific people. A lot of the things that she said 35 years ago, and was soundly ridiculed because of it, is accepted science today. And we're out of time.
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