Kenneth Copeland - It's Your Decision To Get Out of Debt
Kenneth Copeland: Hello everybody. Hasn't this been a wonderful week? Glory to God. And the thoughts of people and the decisions that people make. And like one man, like this one woman said, "The people that some people marry". Well, that's as far as I'm going to go with that one. Praise You, Father. Oh, we worship You most of all for this marvelous Book that contains all the answers to life and Godliness, that pulls no punches. And we thank You for it and we praise You in Jesus' name, Amen. Let's look today, we're talking about decisions and so forth. Let's go to the fifth chapter of the Book of Luke. "And it came to pass that as the people were pressed to hear the Word of God, he stood by the Lake of Gennesaret" or Galilee.
Greg Stephens: Another name.
Kenneth Copeland: "He saw two ships standing by the lake, but the fishermen were gone out of them and were washing their nets". You noticed that? Now put this together. "He entered into one of the ships, which was Simon's, and prayed him that he would thrust out a little from the land. And he sat down, and taught the people out of the ship". So we're well up into the day, they had fished all night. This is one tired group of men, all night long and caught nothing. Now, here it is daytime. They're washing the nets. They're not paying attention to anything he's saying. They're busy. Yeah, okay. I'm busy here. "Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught or a haul. And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy Word I will let down the net". One. He made a decision. We're not going to catch anything. I'm a professional at this, I've done this all my life. Well the preacher wants to fish, okay. Get my net. Get that one. "And when they had this done, they inclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake. And they beckoned unto their partners, which were in the other ship, that they should come and help them. And they came, and filled both the ships, so that they began to sink". Their nets didn't break. Jerry Savelle was preaching in Victoria, Texas. I flew him down there and I had part of that service and this young man was receiving the offering about the net breaking boat sinking load. Well I'd heard other people preach that, heard Oral Roberts preach that. Well, it was true. And the Lord said the net was rotten. I said, "What"? He said he did not want to wash those other nets. I'm going to go out there and throw that thing around. We're not going to catch anything. And then we come back and I can go home and go to breakfast. But did Peter... he wasn't Peter yet, he was Simon Bar Jonah and "Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees". He couldn't fall down to his feet, he's knee deep in fish. He knew what he'd done. "Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord. For he was astonished, and all that were with him, at the draught, the haul of the fishes" which they took in the middle of the day.
Greg Stephens: This was not monofilament line. This is heavy braided, the fish can see it.
Kenneth Copeland: Listen those nets are huge. But in the daytime the lake is clear, just like bath water. So clear they see the net and run from it. Not till this day.
Greg Stephens: I think they came to hear Jesus teach. All those fish just came up.
Kenneth Copeland: Well now when he told Peter what to do, he used Peter's boat. But of course he knew what he was going to do. He knew Peter would be right up on top of the list. The number one man, Peter, James and John, and then the rest of them. But now look what he said. "Simon Peter saw it, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man," or I'm a disobedient man... "For he was astonished, and all that were with him, at the draught, the haul of the fishes which they had taken: And so was also James, and John, the sons of Zebedee, which were partners with Simon. And Jesus said unto Simon, Fear not; from henceforth thou shalt catch men".
Greg Stephens: Now, can I show you a positive side of this. Why this failure of a fisherman who's a professional... Why did he go ahead and call him to be a disciple? The clue to the whole thing is that they've worked all night long, they're tired, and they're out cleaning the nets. And they're out working the nets. I look that word up in the original Greek, and it's the same word used in the Ephesians where it talks about the fivefold ministry for the equipping of the Saints, equipping of the Saints means mending the nets. He knew, I can transition that to equip the Saints. If he's got that much diligence, even while he's tired and catching nothing to go ahead and get his nets ready for tonight, then I can use that same work ethic, if you will, to equip the Saints. He's looking in the future. He's looking at Peter's destiny. This is why he said, "Okay, I'm going to use the same diligence that you used to be a fisher of men. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to change you from fishing fish to fishing men".
Kenneth Copeland: Now turn over here to Matthew eight. No, I'm in Mark, let me get back here to Matthew. Didn't read right.
Greg Stephens: Matthew 8. 14. "And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid and sick of a fever. He touched her hand and the fever left her". I do this every morning. It's right there on my mirror, in my bathroom, well mine's a shower room. But right there, right where I shave. I see it in my mind right now. "He touched her hand. The fever left her and arose and ministered to them. When the even was come, they brought many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his Word, and healed all that were sick: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses". Well that was at Peter's house and it was his mother-in-law. Now he fulfilled it. Those that were possessed with devils, the chastisement of their peace was on him and he fulfilled that Word.
— Let me show another boat example, Mark Chapter four with these fishermen, the disciples have a problem. And in Mark chapter four, verse 30... Well, let's look at verse 35. "And the same day, when the even was come, he saith unto them, Let us pass over unto the other side". The same lake. "And when they had sent away the multitude, they took him even as he was in the ship. And there were also with him other little ships. And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full. And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish? And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind obey him"? They were paddling and they were bailing with Jesus in the boat with them. The power or the way available out of it was not chosen until it was too late. They didn't make a choice to get the power that was available to get them out of this. They were choosing their way.
— I could see it in my heart, mind's eye, Peter being so bold, look back there and see him asleep and just stand up and say, "The master said, 'Go to the other side' and I'm going if I have to walk.'"
— If I have to paddle it myself and bail it myself. It was the same thing would have happened.
— Faith never occurred to them until they were about to perish. And he had just taught them how that Satan comes to steal and choke the Word.
— I mean that was the teaching.
— That's right.
— In the fourth chapter.
— That's exactly right. That never occurred to them there's another way out. There's a supernatural way out. It may have never occurred to you there's a supernatural way out.
— Yes, there is.
— Other than the way you're trying to do things right now. But you have to make the choice. You have to make the decision to follow his way. And there is another way besides one net.
— This is a spirit, soul, body, financially, socially decision, we're an integrated system, what you do in your spirit affects your mind. What you do in your mind affects your spirit. What you do in your soul affects your body. And the decisions that we make based on what. Each one of us are triune beings. We were created by a triune God. We are, according First Thessalonians five, we are spirit and soul and body.
— That's right.
— In Hebrews 12. So all of our decisions and life decisions have some kind of base to them. And now in the book of James, if we turn over there quickly.
— The mind of Christ is an anointed way of thinking. "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;" tests and trials... "Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways". So where's the wavering? The wavering of faith, the flesh. Well I thought I was healed, I guess I'm not. Well, you didn't have any business thinking that, you need to know you're healed and never change. Well, Gloria and I were the same way. We believed in healing Greg, well we got healed sometimes, sometimes we didn't. That's just the way it was. Nah, that's just what we thought. But then we met two gentlemen, Oral Roberts and Kenneth E. Hagin, changed everything. And I can think of the times, I can see it in my mind where and how these things changed and for a long time there, I had my New Testament here in my pocket where my cigarettes used to be. And so I just take it out and read it, you know, the way I used to, you know, do this stupid stuff, take it out and look at it, came back from Tulsa, to preach at Grace Temple, and came there, where I lived in high school and got in there and of course mother grabbed Gloria and just headed back for the house, I said, "Mother, you got any tapes"?
— Yeah, look in there on that Webcore tape recorder. So there it was in just a white box. So I sat down there on her couch. "You can write your own ticket with God" on one side and "Paul's Revelation" on the other by Kenneth E. Hagin. And I found out I had an angel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, I'm going to do it. Turn to Hebrews chapter one verse 14. Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for the heirs of salvation. I though, I have an angel? I slid off that thing and did, by the time he was done, I was sitting there under mother's coffee table. Gloria came in there, I said, "Gloria, sit down". So I listen to both sides of the tape twice. My introduction to Kenneth Hagin, changed my entire thought life.
— You now have an anointed way of thinking.
— Yes. And I found out where faith came from.
— That's right.
— Now, I was watching Oral Roberts and he talked about faith. And I realized by watching him, he used faith like a mechanic uses a tool. And I told him that. I said, "You go to your faith toolbox and you get whatever you need and you use it". But then I found out where it came from. It comes by hearing. So my think decision thought life and I realized "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the Word of truth". The book changed.
— Yeah, absolutely. See, a lot of people do that with healing. They'll do it with their salvation. They'll renew their minds, they get everything but there's one stronghold left. We read it at the beginning of this week. Make that decision to get out of debt. That young man could not, I've done all this stuff, he told Jesus. "One thing you lack". He couldn't break that stronghold to get, make the quality decision to get out of debt. Jesus paid my debt. And I'm not supposed to go back into debt because that will limit a lot of the other decisions that I've made, that I've made a quality choice in because I'm physically in monetary debt. I mean, you have freedom with this ministry because it's debt free.
— And Greg that was so many years ago. But when it spilled over, we leased some cars from a young man that I knew well out in West Coast, beautiful cream colored Chrysler. It had these bronze looking seats on the inside of it. I'd drive it to the airport and come back and the battery be dead. And they just couldn't find anything wrong with it. Well they'd charge the battery up and then it worked fine for a while and then something else crazy. So I called him and I said, "I'm sending you these cars back".
— Is there something... I said, "No, no, no, no". They were leased, see, I said, "If you lose any money on these, the ministry will reimburse you for it".
— Well, all right, Kenneth, that's the way you want it. I said, "Yeah, Bob that'll work". Because the Lord said to me, leasing is just another way to borrow money. You're just trying to get around the issue here, so... See what I was doing. It wasn't a stronghold yet. A man called me, he said, "Is this the Mr. Copeland that had this beautiful Chrysler from..."? And called the man's name. I said yeah. He said, "Copeland, I will tell you something. I just wanted you to know. That's just the finest car. I never have a bit of trouble with it. It's really pretty car, too". I said, "Yes, beautiful car". And I just thought you hadn't got the devil operating on it like I did. That little devil just pulling that stuff on me because I was monkeying around with a direction God had given. We had to learn to make the decision and stick with it. When we did that, Greg... I'm very impulsive. Gloria is not. She wants to think about it a while and I'll look at all the things I would have done and then had to get out of it somewhere or other. But now I can't. No, I'm committed. I made the quality decision. Gloria made it. George and all the rest of the ministry made it. No can't do it. We don't have the money. We'll believe for the money, we'll sow first. I learned that from Oral.
— You told a story about your father had an opportunity to be very, very wealthy man if he would testify a certain way in court and he made a decision.
— He made that decision. Being in the life insurance business. In the life insurance business, the first commission, almost all of that goes to the salesman. Then, as though as people continued to pay on that policy, whatever it is, then that salesman gets a small commission in the renewals, if they renew the policy. Well, then the director gets a small part of that. And so what a person wants to be is a district manager or a general agent of the state or so forth, and then the renewals build up to where it becomes quite large. And this man that had hired my dad originally, well, my dad became a district agent then, and then my dad was working under him. He started his own company, he was a very capable man. He started his own company, was in the contract of National Old Line Insurance Company. You could start another company. There's nothing wrong with that. And you could keep your renewals from National Old Line and he was depending on that. But if you offered anybody else under you a job in that company, you forfeit your renewals. He offered my dad stock in that company. He offered him a large, large, a lot of dollars to sign and come with him. They put my dad on the stand in this lawsuit and that attorney said, Mr. Copeland, did Mr. So-and-so offer you a position in the new company?
— Yes, he did.
— Did he offer you money?
— Yes, he did. It's over, my dad got to keep his job. I said, "Dad you just walk away from..." Well, just looked to me like 3 million right off the bat. I said, "How did you do that"? He said, "Kenneth that's easy, it was a lie". You tell the truth regardless.
— Anointed choice and thinking.
— And decision.
— Yes, sir.
— He made that decision many years before. And we're out of time again today. But there's always Monday. We'll be back in just a moment.