Joyce Meyer - Rejecting Rejection - Part 1
Ginger Stache: Well, we are going to talk about something today, that is every person's issue. In one way or another, you have all, we have all experienced rejection in our life. And so, that's something that we wanna talk about. We wanna encourage people, we wanna talk about how to reject the pain that rejection wants to bring in our lives. So, let me just start. How would you guys describe, anybody, how would you describe what rejection does in your heart? Like, what does it feel like? What does it do to you? Because the implications of it are huge.
Jai: Yeah, well, I can start by saying what it felt like to me recently, to my heart, this is how I described it. I just recently, went through a divorce and what I told, 'cuz someone's, "How do you feel"? Well, I was like, "Well, it feels like he literally cut my chest open, grabbed my heart, and scraped it against burning asphalt, and then, tried to put it back inside". Like, seriously, that's the pain that, that rejection felt like for me. Because it was so unexpected and so very painful. So, that was a little graphic, but that's how I felt.
Ginger Stache: I get it, because it can be that emotional and a physical pain, as well. I mean, it'll just wreck your whole body.
Jai: Yeah, I could physically feel pain.
Joyce Meyer: Well, God has created us for acceptance. I mean, that's our godly DNA, we all want to be accepted. And so, when you're not accepted, it's always painful. And unless you really learn who you are in Christ, which we'll talk about today, you begin to do whatever you think you need to do to be accepted. Which if you're not careful, you end up with everybody else running your life and you having no life, because you're not making any of your own decisions, you're doing whatever you think they want you to do, so they will like you and be pleased with you.
Ginger Stache: This drive to avoid rejection is huge, it is powerful. Like, most of us will do anything to avoid rejection. Don't you think, Chris? Have you had that experience in your life?
Christine Caine: Oh, listen. I think rejection is what I would call my Achilles heel. And I think, you know, the fact, how I think, how I was conceived. The fact that I was left in a hospital unnamed and unwanted when I was born, there was that rejection. And I'm 55, this year, and I recently, you know, God has done such a great healing work in my life. But a couple of years ago, I experienced this betrayal from a friend that I just wasn't, you know, David, I was thinking is Joyce, when we were telling this story yesterday. The Psalmist said, "It would have been okay if it was my enemy, that was against me. But when it was my friend that I went to the house of the Lord with", and that Psalm has given me great solace because otherwise, I would have thought, "Why did it impact me"? But it's almost like it triggered, such a deep level of rejection again, going, "I thought I've worked through a lot of this," and I have, and I knew to go to the word but that visceral pain, there was this one night that I felt like this visceral pain and then, in that moment, the Holy Spirit was like, "Christine, I'm healing an even deeper level," from right when I was in my mother's womb, and obviously, conceived, you know, however, God meant it to happen, but it wasn't planned in obviously, my biological mother and father's plan. And so, the thing is, that rejection is like an Achilles heel. So, you can have visceral reactions. And I think, if I hadn't learned... And again, I'm gonna say, your teaching, probably, has done more in my life to bring healing, the root of rejection. Like, if I read that a hundred times, I'm probably not even exaggerating, because I have had to revisit it and revisit it. Because if the enemy could have short-circuited my purpose in any way, over these last 30 years, it would be over that issue.
Ginger Stache: Well, let's start there. So, we're gonna start with a quick clip from Joyce, talking about this rejection and the root of it, and what it does in our lives. And then, we'll all come back and talk about it a lot more. Take a listen.
Joyce Meyer: When you are a rejection-based person or you're afraid of rejection, if everybody doesn't agree with you, you feel rejected. And so, if Dave and I were trying to have a conversation, if he didn't agree with me, then I didn't know how to separate who I was from my opinion. And so, I had to learn that just because he disagreed with my opinion didn't mean he was rejecting me. He could reject my opinion and still love me. And that was such a major thing to me. So, maybe you need to think about that. If you can't seem to talk to people or a certain person without blowing up in anger all the time, then ask God to help you get to the root of it. And maybe ask God, "Do I have a", you know, "How do I feel when somebody disagrees with me? Do I feel insulted? Do I feel like they think I'm stupid? Do I feel like they don't respect me? Do I feel like I'm being rejected"? And learn how to be a person in Christ who is loved and valued, and separate that from what you think and what you do and all those other more exterior things. Does anybody in the building think that maybe you're still dealing with a little root of rejection in your life? That was a lot of people, but you know, if you stick around, we'll have something for everybody. Roots. Where there's rotten fruit, there's a rotten root somewhere along the line. And sometimes you got to go before the Lord and say, "I don't care if you have to completely tear my life apart, I want to get to the bottom, to the root of why I'm angry, why I get so angry. Why do I get mad every time I don't get my way? Why are my emotions out of control? Why do I waste so many days in self-pity"? Amen?
Ginger Stache: So, everyone is saying, "Oh, I don't want to do that. I don't want to go there. Why did she say that"? But you're so right. I mean, if we don't allow the pain of dredging some things up, then the fruit is going to keep coming out the way we don't want it to.
Joyce Meyer: I asked the Lord, one time, why it hurts so bad to get well. You know, because it's like, you get hurt, getting all messed up. And so, why is it when you want to get well, that it hurts so bad? And he taught me, what he called doorways of pain. You know, like when my father abused me, I went through a doorway of pain, so I got a little deeper into bondage. When my mother didn't help me, when she abandoned me then that was like another doorway of pain. And so, you have to confront each one of those things. You know, whether, it's you just confronting it in your mind with you and God, but usually, in order to get us to confront things, God will have to, lovingly, put together a situation...
Ginger Stache: Oh, no.
Joyce Meyer: Like you had this situation. There was something in there that God wanted to come out that would eventually, make you freer.
Christine Caine: Right, it would kill me in the process.
Joyce Meyer: You know, I said, one time, I was going through something with Dave when I was trying to learn how to be a "Submissive wife". I have so learned that now. But I said, "Oh, God this is killing me". And he said, "That's exactly right". You know, we are supposed to die to self. But God's got this little toolbox that he uses, and it is all in love. It's ultimately to set us free. But I don't think you can get over pain without going through some pain to confront it and a lot of people don't understand that. So then, when it starts to hurt, they start to back off.
Christine Caine: You know, I was just thinking, when you said that, I remember when I snapped my acl in my ski accident and I had knee surgery, the doctor came in, the pt, right after the surgery. And he said, "You know, Christine, most people don't recover fully," because I blew my knee totally out. He said, "From your kind of accident," he said, "It's not that they can't," he said, "In fact, with a hamstring graft your right knee is now stronger than your left knee. But the pain of the injury, it happened quickly. You had a ski accident, it was painful, but it happened quickly". He said, "But it's gonna take at least six months of recovery, and the pain of recovery is going to far outweigh the pain of the injury". And I remember these words, he said, "So, Chris, you can either recover quickly or slowly, completely or partially, it's entirely up to you. The degree, to which you are willing to embrace the pain of recovery, is the degree to which you will recover".
Joyce Meyer: That's a very good example to use. Because it's, I mean, if you fall down and really skin your knee real bad, it hurts, but it almost hurts worse when it starts to form a scab. And, you know, you have to leave it alone, and just let it do what it's doing.
Ginger Stache: It's so hard not to pick at it, to try to get it to go away, yeah.
Joyce Meyer: But that's what causes scars. When we pick at our wounds and just get them bleeding all over again.
Jai: Yeah, I was just with family that their daughter had gone through some emotional rejection and some pain even in a church. And it had caused her so much emotional pain, that it was causing her physical pain, that she had to actually go through trauma therapy. In her trauma therapy, they actually put her through pain to help her renew her mind. Like, and they say, a lot of parents don't allow their kids to actually finish the treatment because it's too painful to watch. But then it doesn't, something that triggers in their brain, to renew their mind, you know, that they have to have that physical pain. Like, even if it's like, strapping them up. I was like, "Wow, that sounds crazy". But then I immediately thought about my personal life and I was like, "Well, isn't that", it's just what you guys are talking about. In order to renew your mind, sometimes, you know, you need to go through something to actually go through and your mind can get refreshed and renewed.
Joyce Meyer: It's like, you can't be set free from fear unless you confront fear. And so, it's the same way with any kind of an emotional injury, you have to confront it. And so, sometimes, God, in his grace and mercy sets up a situation that forces you to confront it because we're not likely to do it just by choice.
Ginger Stache: So, rejection is a little bit different than maybe, when you talk about abuse. I think, "Well, I haven't experienced anything like that". You know, I didn't have a situation like you girls did, where I had that kind of abuse. But I've had, certainly, situations of rejection that hurt to the core, that were so unexpected, that were friends, that, you know, whatever it may be in your life. And so, the pain from that surprises me. I sometimes, I think, "I'm just being such a baby, you know, I just need to let this go". And sometimes, I'm right, I am. But also, I think there are a lot of our friends who are listening and watching, right now, who think, "Well, you know, I haven't been through this, but I still really hurt". You know, 'cuz rejection is really hard.
Joyce Meyer: And it's because we're not created for that. We're created for love and acceptance. And so, as long as you're... Anytime, you get rejected, it's going to hurt. But you know, a scripture, I hope I have the reference right, I think it's Luke 10:16. Jesus said, "If they reject you, they reject me".
Ginger Stache: I love that verse. I mean, it makes you feel not alone.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, well, it kinda is like, he takes our rejection personally. He was despised, and rejected, and hated for no reason at all. They hated him without a cause I think that's one of the saddest scriptures in the Bible. "They hated me without a cause". And there are people that are they're haters and they're gonna hate you because your successful, they're gonna hate you, if you look better than they do. They're gonna hate you if you have a nicer house than they do. There's just people like that. So, we have to learn that not everybody is going to like us, but God always loves us and learn how... That's why I love what the Bible says, "Even though my mother and my father have rejected me, the Lord will take me up and adopt me".
Christine Caine: It's beautiful.
Joyce Meyer: And so, I will never know what it's like to sit on your dad's lap, or to go to your dad for advice, or to enjoy going to family dinner at mom and dad's. But I don't even know what I missed in my childhood because I have nothing to compare it to. I never had it. But I do trust the word that God will give me something much better. And that, you know, that's really people's only hope. I mean, you can go through all kinds of other stuff but God's the only one that can restore you and heal you in a way that you can... I don't like being rejected, even today. Nobody likes it. And especially, if it's a friend or somebody that you love, it's really hard. But you can recover from it, because Jesus went through it. And if he went through it and came out, okay, on the other side, we can too.
Ginger Stache: In my Bible, I had from high school, all of those places where Jesus faced rejection, they are highlighted, and circled, and starred, because I just remember, even then, going through that and thinking, you know, "He gets it". That is a huge thing is that he gets it, and he gets me. And he's felt it, as well. And so, that was huge for me. And I know, Erin, for you too, you've talked about similar things that you've had to face.
Erin Cluley: : I'm actually, having this really interesting experience over here, listening to you guys.
Erin Cluley: : I knew this was what we were gonna talk about today, and I was like, "Yeah, I've experienced rejection. I'm good. And I've seen God work through me". And, as we're sitting here talking, I'm like, "I don't know that I am". I don't think, in the past year, I've experienced some of this, and I thought I was good. And now, I'm hearing, like, you say stuff, and I'm like, "I don't know that I am. I think there's some things that I need to go back and go through that pain again".
Joyce Meyer: But maybe, you're gonna get another level of good.
Erin Cluley: : But I don't want to do another one. I got enough levels here, Joyce, I'm good. No, I want what you're saying. I want to go to the next level. I thought I was good. But maybe, this is God saying, "No, Erin, let me, let's do this again. Let's go deeper".
Jai: Let's go deeper. And I know we've talked a lot about the rejection that you even experienced, like even, in like, in high school and like, that stuff's triggering, you know, to think about it. 'cuz I think about my daughter, we were having conversations. Just simple conversations that seemed kind of petty, but they're real, right? I had to tell her, I was like, "I'mma be 40 this year and I just got people that I think are my real friends," you know? Like, everybody's like...
Erin Cluley: : We are.
Jai: You are.
Ginger Stache: Me too.
Jai: So, I'm like, I have my tribe now. But I missed that in high school 'cuz everyone had that. But she was like, in a text train with some groups of girls and she was like, "Mom, why doesn't anyone ever respond when I say something? I can ask a question", she's like, they're all cackling, chatting about the dumbest stuff, right? Like, boys or different things that she's just really not, she's like, "I'll laugh, like, I'll put like a ha ha," you know? Or like a little smile emoji. But she's like, "Whenever I say anything," you know, she's like, "They don't say anything". And she's like, "Sometimes they're mean to people and I might come in and say like, 'why are we saying that? That's not really nice'". I'm like, "Well, you're kind of a buzzkill, like you're a Christian". Like you are, I'm sorry, like, she's the one that's like, "Don't say mean things about people," and then they're all like crickets. And then she's like...
Ginger Stache: Well, good for her.
Jai: I mean, I'm proud of her. But she, literally, like, her eyes will well up, she's like, "This happens to me all the time. I don't know if I have my tribe or have people that really like me".
Erin Cluley: : We'll make her people.
Jai: I'm like, "You're gonna get 'em". Like, "Just keep the faith and stay strong". But that rejection, that stuff digs deep, and I'm just praying like, that it doesn't keep go... You know what I mean? Like, when you have different people, just keep rejecting you.
Joyce Meyer: You don't want her to be scarred from it.
Jai: Exactly, so...
Erin Cluley: : It was crazy, when you... What I've experienced recently, liked it, it puts me back in eighth grade. So, that's exactly where I go, is that moment, in eighth grade, when I felt like I was nobody and had no friends, and nothing. And it's crazy how, I am a 34-year-old woman and I still go back to being a middle school girl in those moments.
Christine Caine: I think that is real. I think this conversation's so timely. Our social media world, I've got, you know, two high... A high schooler and now the eldest has gone to college. But I'm watching it in real time. I'm looking at my life in real time. I'm watching social media and I'm thinking the enemy is having a field day. He comes into the garden. Shame and rejection: bang, Genesis. It hasn't changed, just how it looks changes. And here's the challenge for a lot of us, and our people listening, there's two sides, and Joyce, again, I think you've told me this. I wish it didn't take me this long to realize it. So, we might be helping someone, right now. In our generation and out there, everything's about, find your tribe, find your community, we're almost creating another idol of community and tribe. And this what I'm concerned about. 'cuz I'm watching it on socials because now you call people out in real time, you cancel people in real time...
Joyce Meyer: How can you cancel me?
Jai: You've been cancelled.
Christine Caine: But it's like that isn't it? Before, at least, if I wasn't invited to the party on Friday night, I didn't know until Monday. Because I had to go back to school. There was no internet in my day. Now, though, on Friday, I'm sitting in my room and I'm scrolling through and everyone's post, for a kid, not just a kid, any of us, it's like, "Hang on a minute. Why was I not on that thread"? And so, the enemy's having a field day. And I think we are almost creating this thing all over again. And certainly, what I went through, a couple years ago was like, "Hang on a minute, maybe I still haven't relied ultimately on God alone". I don't mean to be disconnected from humans, but at the end of the day, no human being is gonna give you what only God can give you. And it's almost like you've gotta keep learning it, and learning it, and learning it. And in our day and age, with all the social stuff that is happening, this sort of "Tribe community vibe," find your people, I think there's almost such an overemphasis on it that we're still not directing people to Jesus.
Joyce Meyer: I think that's a very good point. I think I've never heard anybody talk about it like that. But I spend a lot of time by myself. I have to do that to do what I'm doing. And sometimes, I actually think, I even prayed about it this morning, it was like, "Is there something wrong with me"? You know, that I don't feel that I need a village, or a tribe, or... You know, it's like, I mean, I love people. I have friends. But I don't need to be with somebody all the time to feel loved and accepted. Because, you know, when God calls you there is to a certain degree, he's separating you, away from other things unto himself. And sometimes, if you're hearing from too many people, you really can't hear from God. And when God called me, to do what I'm doing, right away, I got rejected by all the people that I knew at that time. And when I left the church that I worked in for five years, I got rejected by all the people that I knew at the time. And people have to understand that rejection is from the devil, and he uses it to keep you from making progress. You can almost expect it on every level that you're on. When God's ready to promote you to the next level, the devil will launch an attack of rejection against you, to get you so focused on what's wrong with you, that you really can't go forward.
Erin Cluley: : 'cuz, when you're rejected, you go inward, and all you can see is how terrible you are, or all the faults that you have. "I'm not pretty enough. I'm not smart enough". And so, that's all you see.
Joyce Meyer: When God first called me, one of the hardest things I dealt with was, I was just flat-out lonely, because I was used to being a part of a tribe at the church, and we had our group, and everything the leadership did, I was a part of it, and we went on retreats, and we did this, and we had dinners. And all of a sudden, I wasn't invited anymore, and I hadn't really met other people yet. And I was just flat-out lonely. And every time I would try to get in like a Christian group of ministers or something, I mean, honestly, it was ridiculous. I mean, it was just like God would not allow it. And I really came to the point where I understood that God wanted some time with me to make me what he wanted me to be and not to be so influenced. Because I was insecure enough, at that time, that I would have been influenced by all these other people, to think, "Oh, that's the way I need to do it".
Ginger Stache: I've had that same experience where for whatever reason you go through seasons in your life where people are just kind of stripped away. And you begin to realize it's because I have to focus on my relationship with Christ, right now. It's the only place I'm going to get what I need. And God's making sure that I do this, whether I like it or not. And that desire to avoid rejection is so strong. Have any of you ever been this bad? This is how bad I've been. That there have even been times that I'll reject people before they can reject me.
Jai: Ew, beat 'em to the punch.
Ginger Stache: Absolutely.
Jai: You're cancelled!
Ginger Stache: I wanna cancel people. But no, it's like, if I start to see something happening then I'll think, "Okay, I'm fine without them". And then, you react to things that haven't even happened yet, because of the way you're thinking. Here's a crazy, funny story, just to lighten the mood a little bit.
Erin Cluley: : Thank you, please do.
Ginger Stache: I was on a walk the other day in our neighborhood. And I love our neighborhood, the people are great, they're really friendly. The houses aren't real close together, so I'm walking along and I'm thinking, there's nobody around, you know, and I feel like this little burp coming up. And so, it's just me and the dog, right.
Christine Caine: Thank God, it's just a burp.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, it was a burp. Yeah, it was coming up, not down. So, anyway, there's no one around, right? I just let out this belch, right, as I'm walking. And it was a good one. It was loud. And this man, this neighbor pops up from behind a bush. He's out doing yard work, so I couldn't see him. And so, he looks at me and I look at him, and you know what I did to avoid the embarrassment and the rejection? I looked at my tiny, ten-pound dog, and I said, "Oh my, Winston, are you okay? That was really big. Are you alright"? And then, I look at him and laugh. How sad is that, that you'll lie and blame it on your dog, to avoid all the neighbors, talking about Ginger walking and burping around our neighborhood.
Joyce Meyer: That's good. That's very good.
Ginger Stache: But that is how strong it can be that we'll reject each other first, we'll lie, we'll do whatever we have to do to avoid the hurt of other people, rejecting us.