Joyce Meyer - How to Set Boundaries in Your Life - Part 2
- Watch
- Audio
- Donate
- How to know Jesus
Ginger Stache: Hey everyone, welcome to, «Enjoying Everyday Life». Well, we had a fantastic time yesterday learning the importance of setting healthy boundaries. And if you missed it, you can watch part one on our website, joycemeyer.org. Did you know a great question to ask yourself regarding boundaries in a relationship is, «Do you love my 'no' as much as you love my 'yes'»? There is so much more to uncover today. So, let’s continue our discussion with Joyce, Dr. Henry cloud, and Erin Cluley. And we know that you’re gonna be right here with us loving this conversation.
Ginger Stache: Well, and Jesus drew boundaries in his own life. And that’s one of the things that Joyce has talked about quite a bit. And that stress that we all deal with when we don’t draw those boundaries, Jesus is a great example of how he handled that differently. So, let’s listen to what Joyce had to say about how this works. Taking some of that stress out of your life the same way that Jesus did. And we’ll come back, and we’ll talk a little bit more about that.
Joyce Meyer: So stress is all around us. It’s not likely to decrease, so what are our options? Well, we only have two as far as I can figure. Continue to be stressed out until we fall apart. That’s an option, and, sadly, I know that some of you will take that option, or you can learn to not be affected by it by not letting it get into you. What’s around us doesn’t have to get in us, amen? Peace has been defined as a quiet heart, and, boy, do I love that, a quiet heart. Jesus was surrounded by stressful situations, rejected by family and friends. Some of you are goin' through that right now. You’re lettin' it stress you out. Accused of being evil, accused of doing something or having some kind of a wicked motive that’s just not true of you at all. False accusations can stress us out, boy. We wanna convince everybody that we’re good. Has anybody ever noticed that Jesus never tried to do that? His disciples needed a lot of correction. He was mentoring them for the job of carrying the gospel to the world and only had a very short time to do it. Sometimes all the people around us that don’t do what they ought to be doin' can really stress us out. «I have to always tell you what to do every time, constantly, and then when I tell you, you can’t do it». Huge crowds followed him everywhere, and they all wanted miracles, healings, and help of some kind. You know, I’ve even said, «Everybody that comes near me wants something»! Some of you moms, you feel that way. The husband wants something. All the kids want something. Then your parents call you up, and they want something. And then your mother-in-law wants something. And it’s just everybody wants a piece of me, and I don’t have any pieces left. How many of you ever feel like that? See. But, see, Jesus, although he was there for people, he had boundaries. If you don’t want the neighbor’s dog pooin' in your yard, then you better put up a fence. Amen? And that means that we need to put some fences up around our lives and say, «You can go this far, but you can’t go any farther».
Ginger Stache: So good. And Erin didn’t know that you were gonna talk about Axel, her dog.
Erin Cluley: It’s like you knew when you preached that message, «Erin’s gonna have a problem».
Dr. Henry cloud: I love the pooping example.
Erin Cluley: It’s a good one. I like it.
Joyce Meyer: You can use that.
Dr. Henry cloud: Well, people are…
Joyce Meyer: But only if you give me credit.
Dr. Henry cloud: I’ll give you credit. «Joyce is the one that said this, 'don’t let the dog’s poop in your yard but don’t let the people poop in your heart'».
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, that’s good.
Erin Cluley: Yes, that’s good. In your «Boundaries» book, I like the example you gave about the woman and you kind of walk through her day of how stressed she is. And before I read it, I thought, «I think my boundaries are fine in my life. I don’t have super controlling people that are concerning to me. I think I’m great». And then I read that, and I thought, «Oh my, I do feel some of those things that that woman was feeling about where she was feeling stress points». And I think accepting the fact that there are some boundary issues made a really big impact on me to be able to see some holes and some gaps.
Ginger Stache: What were some of the gaps that you saw?
Erin Cluley: It was, I mean, even things that seem so silly like rushing around in the morning to have to, everybody’s late because you’re not creating space and time for things. So, the boundary of preparing the night before.
Dr. Henry cloud: How about you’re not pulling away from the house at a certain time and leaving 'em in the kitchen?
Erin Cluley: Yes, almost done that before. The atmosphere changed in their home when the mom set boundaries for who was responsible for what, that it wasn’t all on the mom to take care of.
Dr. Henry cloud: It should not be.
Erin Cluley: And I think that as moms, and I can speak on from a lot of my friends that when we have these conversations, we feel the need to carry the weight of everything in the home. And it makes me emotional. It’s exhausting. And so, you have a bunch of burnout moms who are just trying to do everything.
Dr. Henry cloud: Yeah. When our kids were little, I got a whiteboard, put it up and said, okay, here’s the deal. «Nobody lives here for free. Okay. Everybody’s got to pay to live here. Everybody’s got to do a job. So, I’m going to put all the jobs up on the board and everybody gets to pick the one they want. The first one was pay the mortgage. Who wants that»? I didn’t see any hands go up. I said, «Okay, I’ll take that». «Who’s gonna go to the store and make sure y’all got everything you need»? «Oh, mom,» you know, whatever. So, finally, they’re like saying, «I can feed the dog». «I can», you know, but everybody’s got a responsibility and they need to learn that early because that’s gonna equip 'em for life. But if you’re doing everything for them, then you’re gonna be doing it at 45 and they’re watching video games on the couch.
Erin Cluley: And I don’t want that.
Dr. Henry cloud: If you’ve got problems, you’re alive. That’s good news. But problems are meant to be solved. We address them. If there’s a behavior problem with a kid or, you know, each other or something, we solve it, right? And then we move on. That’s okay. That’s normal. But if we don’t, then it’s going to happen again. And you no longer have a problem at that point. You have a pattern. And once a pattern begins to develop, that’s much more difficult than just addressing problems. That’s why you go to Matthew 18, classic boundaries passage. Jesus said, if your «Brother,» you know, «Sins against you,» bugs you, bothers you, whatever it is, «Go to them in private and talk about it early, quick,» you know? And then we won’t have a problem. And it said, «If they’re wise,» what do they say? «Oh, gosh, I’m sorry. I don’t want to», you know, and it’s done. It’s over with. If they don’t listen, he doesn’t say, then nag them again. He says, no, you know, if this is turning into a pattern, «Get a couple of other people to help you and sit down and say, we want to talk to you about something». And «If that doesn’t end,» ultimately the boundaries ultimately end, in «Separating from that person». Because what he’s trying to do is get us to contain something. And you know what word he uses? «Bind». You read the passage, Matthew 18:15–20, 21 or so, he gives us these steps, increasing boundaries, just like your immune system starts with saliva, then up the ante to stomach acid, and then the t cells, and ultimately you gotta cut it out. And what he does is he has this progressive boundary. And then he says something, you know, we hear people, you know, «I bind this in the name of», you know, the word in the context, it’s about relationships and that behavior that we’re setting boundaries on. And then he says, «For whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in the heavens». So, when we’re containing and binding bad behavior, it won’t spread. And then he says, but if «You loose it, it will be loosed». And so, you’ve got the incarnational reality of here on earth. But what that does is that sets into force spiritual dynamics that we can’t see in relationships, in families, in communities and beyond. And so, he’s the one that says, «Contain bad stuff. Don’t let it become a pattern».
Ginger Stache: What are some of the things that people are dealing with now that, because this book has these spiritual truths in it that last for a long time, but culture changes. So, for instance, let’s talk about digital boundaries. Are there new things that we’re seeing all the time that people have to learn how to set boundaries?
Dr. Henry cloud: One of the big problems, I think, with the digital world, you know, the digital world is great. I mean, we’re using it today, right? It’s a tool. But all tools can be used for good or bad. But God built some boundaries in, let’s just start with the basic one of how we order our lives. God built some boundaries in from creation. The primary ones other than gravity is time and space. Okay? There used to be a time that you went to work, and work had a space. There was a boundary, time and space. So, you go to work, I do my work, I leave work, and I go into life.
Ginger Stache: Wow, is that changing.
Erin Cluley: Oozed together.
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Dr. Henry cloud: Well, then you got this little device now that pierces and does away with the boundaries of time and space. Now, your boss can find you at nine o’clock at night. They can find you on the golf course, which should never be allowed.
Ginger Stache: Uh, tell me about it. My boss.
Dr. Henry cloud: How about that?
Joyce Meyer: Oh, yes. I just chase you all the time.
Dr. Henry cloud: Also, you used to have to intentionally bring home work with you if you had a special project. Now, we’re just like, «Oh gosh,» at nine o’clock at night. So, the first thing is time and space. That’s the digital problem.
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Dr. Henry cloud: And it’s very important for people. I set a rule a long time ago, no work emails at home.
Ginger Stache: Yeah. That’s a hard one.
Erin Cluley: Do you think he knew what we were doing last night that we were emailing each other?
Dr. Henry cloud: I understand.
Ginger Stache: Shh, don’t tell these things.
Dr. Henry cloud: I understand there’s sometimes, you know, man wasn’t made for the sabbath, the sabbath was made for man. So, the rules have got to work for you. But you gotta have some. So, is there a sabbath from work daily at some point? And so, that’s one problem. The other problem is people can get to you at any time they want. We used to have to actually answer the phone and not know who was there. Well, now, somebody texts you anytime and people, you know, people feel the obligation to answer an email or text when it comes. Why? Why can somebody just walk in your door and have you at that moment?
Erin Cluley: I don’t want them to feel like I ignored them. I don’t know.
Dr. Henry cloud: Poor babies.
Erin Cluley: I know! When I say it out loud, it sounds ridiculous.
Joyce Meyer: Well, my children, especially three out of the four, if they call me and I don’t answer, in 30 minutes they’ll call me back. And if I don’t answer, they’re gonna show up at the door to make sure I’m okay.
Erin Cluley: Aww.
Joyce Meyer: So, I always answer my kids.
Dr. Henry cloud: Well, but that even might be an agreement. Like somebody’s got a medical condition and I don’t respond to you…
Joyce Meyer: I didn’t agree to it.
Dr. Henry cloud: Exactly. No, exactly. I get that.
Joyce Meyer: But they do it out of love. They just want to make sure that I’m okay.
Dr. Henry cloud: I get that. I was so proud of my daughter, olivia, and her friends when they were in high school. They call it their squad. And that’s their team. That’s their support. They can deal with all the bullies and all the junk going on because they got their squad. And they would have a once-a-week dinner with the squad. You know what they did? These were high schoolers. When the squad got together, they had a basket. Each one of them turned their phones off and put it in the basket.
Erin Cluley: Wow.
Ginger Stache: That is impressive.
Erin Cluley: And they were in high school.
Dr. Henry cloud: Because they’re going to be with each other.
Erin Cluley: Wow.
Joyce Meyer: Well, Ginger left home the other day without her phone. And I was so proud of her, she did not go back to get it.
Ginger Stache: It’s true. It was a big deal.
Joyce Meyer: And I called her twice that day and she didn’t answer me.
Erin Cluley: Did you almost go over there and check on her?
Joyce Meyer: No.
Dr. Henry cloud: If you’re not an er doc or an ambulance driver, I mean, do you really need that phone for the next three hours?
Erin Cluley: Did you feel naked though? Like something was missing.
Ginger Stache: It felt so strange. And I can’t tell you how many times I reached for it.
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Ginger Stache: Or, you know, all those things that we do all the time. But, you know, we were with family, and we don’t get to see our family that often. And Tim, I said, «Oh, no, I forgot my phone». And Tim said, «Well, we better go back». And it was really just kind of a peace, a Holy Spirit thing. I was like, «No, I’m gonna be okay. God will help me through this». I twitched all day. But it was a good thing.
Joyce Meyer: I think the reason why I answer them all is because I don’t want 'em piling up on me. I don’t wanna have to do 'em all later.
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Dr. Henry cloud: Well, that’s purposeful.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, that makes sense.
Dr. Henry cloud: It’s not out of fear of somebody, you know, that’s purposeful.
Erin Cluley: Mine’s fear, yours feels like a good reason.
Ginger Stache: Well, let’s talk about some of those things that do impact our boundaries. Fear is one of them.
Dr. Henry cloud: Fear is a great one.
Ginger Stache: That we’ll be hurt or that we’ll hurt someone else. How do you handle that fear?
Dr. Henry cloud: I think people should really sit down and take an audit of your fears. Now, you can work backwards, reverse engineer this. You look at the situations where you’re not having good boundaries and go sit down and say, «Why did I do that? Why did I not speak up? Why didn’t I say 'no'»? And then sit down and ask God, you know, Psalm 139 says, «God, try my anxious thoughts and see if there’s any hurtful way in me and lead me in the way of the everlasting». So, I got to sit down and say, «Why did I do that»? And you’re gonna get down to fear is one of them. Let me give you another one. Programming. A lot of people grew up with maybe a really self-centered entitled parent.
Joyce Meyer: Well, I grew up with a father that was very controlling and manipulative. And if you did not do exactly what he wanted you to, he got mad. So, that was one of the things I was gonna bring out is that’s been the hardest thing for me. I mean, I can say «No» to anybody, but if it’s close, somebody I’m close to or somebody I want their approval, I don’t want their disapproval, if I’m gonna say «No» to them, I have to really buck up and pray through and do it on purpose because it’s not easy for me still.
Ginger Stache: But you learned how to keep the peace, right?
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, I learned to be the peacemaker in the family. And, you know, my dad was abusing me, so we had all these secrets. And, you know, I took that as my responsibility to make sure my mother never found out. And, you know, then she knew it and wouldn’t do anything about it. But I’ve noticed that it’s like some people use the word imprinting, like, you know, like it’s like that got so imprinted in my soul…
Dr. Henry cloud: That’s right.
Joyce Meyer: That the only way to keep daddy happy was to always do exactly what he wanted. And so, I’m good with every other area at saying «No,» but if it’s somebody that’s real close to me and saying «No» to them is gonna make 'em mad, if I do it, I have to do it on purpose.
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Dr. Henry cloud: And what you just said is so important, you know, it’s talking about the patterning that you learn. When our neurological systems and our psychological, emotional systems, they are wired in our early relationship. That’s the way God designed it for good. Deuteronomy 6. We’re supposed to be wiring our kids into God’s ways. But we also get wired into very dysfunctional ways. And when you take what you said, Joyce, when you take our wiring for attachment, emotional investment in a relationship, our need for this relationship, when you wire that with the programming and the coding, that the only way to have that attachment is to give in and do what they want, now you’ve got wiring that will repeat itself and then somebody goes out and they start dating and, you know, a good person comes along, they’re not wired to be attracted to that person. They’re wired to what’s familiar a lot of times. So, you get in it. Now, remember, look at this. Look at her life now. Look at the fruit that God has done through you and healed you. Wiring can change. That’s the message of the gospel. But it doesn’t change by just saying, «Oh, I’m not gonna do that anymore». It changes in the same way that it first got laid down and that’s where we get back into, this is why God said in Ephesians 4 that the body heals itself as each part does its work. We’ve got to be connected to God, which is the verse before, and then it says we’ve got to be in a new community that rewires, that loves your «No,» that loves it when you won’t allow yourself to be hurt and supports that. And that will create new wiring in people. And it literally happens. And now, as you go on, the old stuff, it’s like old telephone wires in your basement. They’re not hooked up to anything anymore and you get stronger and stronger. And that’s the fruit of self-control.
Joyce Meyer: Right.
Ginger Stache: A lot of those fears probably, like the people who love you, are probably not going to be upset with you now when you say «No». They are based on either the past or something that may not even be realistic anymore, but they’re still so ingrained in us that they’re really hard to change.
Joyce Meyer: Right.
Ginger Stache: It’s that fear of rejection or all the different things that we think, «If I set up a boundary here, am I going to be left out? Am I going to end up being alone»?
Dr. Henry cloud: And you might be left out of some particular people, but you’re not gonna be alone in the universe. See, that’s the child brain. When a child is getting wired, «The whole world will abandon me if I do a, b, or c». They’re right, because their whole world is one or two people.
Joyce Meyer: Right.
Dr. Henry cloud: That subjective experience stays in the adult. And you’ll feel, there’s only however many billions of people in the world now that you have choices to, you know, who you’re gonna be connected to. But it feels like, «I’m gonna be alone in the universe if this one person rejects me». And that’s the old, you know, Paul said «When I was a child, I thought and did all this. Now, I’ve become…» We’ve got to change this stuff. That’s why, Joyce, I’m gonna just tell you this. I’ve told you this a thousand times, but what I love and value about many things, but one of most about what you do is you empower people to live free lives unto God. And you help so many people…
Joyce Meyer: Thank you.
Dr. Henry cloud: By ordering their spiritual development, their relationships, how they think, how they pray, all of that, you’re just empowering so many people that have been victimized, and God bless you for that.
Joyce Meyer: Thank you. Thank you. Listen, I wanna mention before the program’s over that Dr. Cloud has written a new book called «Why I believe». And I’m reading it, my husband’s reading it, my son’s reading it. The book is really good. He’s sharing some things from a psychologist’s point of view about miracles and just scientific things.
Dr. Henry cloud: It’s a very different book for me because I usually write about my field. And it starts out in the preface, it says, «I have an issue, and this book is my attempt to solve it. I love God, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he’s real. He’s proven that to me for decades. That’s not my problem. My problem is I love my friends, and many of them don’t know him, and we’ve never talked about it with some of 'em». Because that’s a hard conversation with some people to have. It’s divisive for some people. They feel judged.
Joyce Meyer: Especially if they don’t wanna hear it.
Dr. Henry cloud: That’s right. But then it says, «But that’s not being a good friend either. So, you know what? I’m going to write down why I believe». And I did something I’ve never done. You know, I just told my whole story about when I hit bottom and God healed me and…
Joyce Meyer: He was in a psych ward.
Dr. Henry cloud: Rescued me.
Joyce Meyer: Who would have ever thought that?
Dr. Henry cloud: I was so depressed in college. I had to take a semester off. But God entered the picture, and there was a whole section in there on the miracles that he did. But then that brought up a lot of intellectual questions for me. And everybody was telling me, well, science has disproven the Bible, and it’s full of myths and all this. So, I had to spend a couple of years back then deep diving into the sciences. And the book is telling my friends, I had the same questions you do. And these are the answers I found that made my doubts go away. And so, I hope it’s a book that people will give to their friends.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, I think it’s going to be very helpful.
Dr. Henry cloud: It’s called «Why I believe».
Ginger Stache: Well, Dr. Cloud, thank you so much. We really appreciate any help we can get with boundaries and all of the daily stressors that come into our lives. And really taking it from God’s word and applying what Jesus did to our lives. And just being able to talk about it is hugely beneficial. Thank you.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, it’ll help a lot of people.
Dr. Henry cloud: Thank you all for having me. It’s always fun to be back with you all.
Erin Cluley: Thank you, Dr. Cloud.
Joyce Meyer: Well, who wouldn’t wanna be with three good-looking women?
Dr. Henry cloud: That’s what I said.
Erin Cluley: That’s the right answer.
Dr. Henry cloud: Said, «Sign me up».