Joyce Meyer - Beyond Labels - Part 2

Ginger Stache: Hello, and welcome to today's program. How do you see yourself? Are you constantly comparing yourself to others or trying to live up to someone else's standards? That is a very bumpy road. So, what is a better path? Today we continue our discussion with Joyce, recording artist, Riley Clemmons, Erin Cluley, and me. And I believe our conversation will inspire you to look deeper into what really counts, and who God says you are.

Joyce Meyer: You know, something that keeps coming to my heart that I think our listeners and viewers need to understand is we're all talking about things where we've been able to be honest with ourselves. And until you can do that, you can't get anywhere.

Erin Cluley: That's good.

Joyce Meyer: You can't grow anywhere until you can actually have like a conversation with yourself and be honest. And one of the things that I've learned to do, it's amazing what God will tell you if you ask him. Now, sometimes, he doesn't tell us everything we ask him but you know, for example, if you act bad or you end up saying a bunch of stuff you know you shouldn't say, I've learned to ask God, "Why did I do that"? I mean, "Why did I really do that"? And it's amazing how many things that we do out of some hurt, or wound, or some insecurity that we have that we just quickly pass over and don't pay any attention to it. And I just wanna encourage our viewers and listeners today to start taking the time to have meetings with yourself and ask God to show you why you behave the way you behave. "Why did it bother me when Dave said that"?

Riley Clemmons: That's good.

Erin Cluley: That's scary.

Ginger Stache: It's time to get honest. That is scary.

Joyce Meyer: 'cause we would always like him to tell us there's something wrong with somebody else.

Erin Cluley: Absolutely.

Riley Clemmons: Right.

Joyce Meyer: But I'm only responsible for me. No matter what Dave does wrong, I'm only responsible, not that he does a lot of stuff wrong, I don't mean that, but whoever it is, I'm only responsible for my reaction, not what he did.

Erin Cluley: Oh yeah, that's great.

Riley Clemmons: Wow.

Joyce Meyer: And that...

Riley Clemmons: That's so good.

Joyce Meyer: I think it's tough.

Erin Cluley: Just this morning, I was reading, I'm pretty sure it was John 15:16, or John 16:15. So, you can look them up and see which one it is.

Riley Clemmons: It's all right, we got you girl.

Erin Cluley: But it's talking about, you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you. And so, I paused for a second and I thought, it was that humbling moment I needed that I think that I'm controlling things and I think that I need to keep performing because I'm gonna make these things happen. But God is the one who created me. And if my identity is in him, I am just like I can, I'm spinning my wheels for nothing. He is the one that has chosen me, and he is appointing me where he wants me to go and I can't make it go any faster or slower than he wants it to go. So, it was a humbling moment for me to see, "Erin, you really aren't in control here," which you've told me a lot, I appreciate. But a good reminder.

Riley Clemmons: A good reality check.

Erin Cluley: It was, it was a good honest moment to have with myself.

Joyce Meyer: Right.

Erin Cluley: Like you've said, you know.

Ginger Stache: I do think we have to, like you're saying, it's humbling, which is what we need all the time. We need that humbling. But when we take the time to get really honest and look at ourself and be realistic, like just let it be a magnifying glass that we're seeing those things that are really tiny that we don't realize, but God can bring them out and bring them big for us to see.

Riley Clemmons: It's really good.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, being in television all my life, right? So, there are so many things that are important that you need to accomplish. And I've always been real driven, like you were saying, Riley, and wanting to do these things and to get onto the next thing and to be successful in them. And at the same time, as a Christian, balancing that with walking in Christ, it's easy to start to think, "Well, I have to do these things for God, or he'll be disappointed in me, or I'll let him down, or I won't have the worth in him that I should". And that's not how God sees it at all. God can take any of that away, at any moment and say, "I've got something different for you to do now". And it will still be good, and it will still be important. And a lot of people have had those experiences in their lives where it's like, "Things have changed now".

Riley Clemmons: Right.

Ginger Stache: "And do we still trust God? Or are we counting on that thing that we thought gave us worth and value"? So, when you made the choice to step away for a little while, what was it that settled you, that made you know, "It's okay, it's time to go back"?

Riley Clemmons: That is another great question, Ginger, I love that. I remember there was a pivotal moment. I was sittin', it wasn't a pink couch, it wasn't this cute, admittedly, but I was sitting on a couch. My mom and I were sitting there, and I was crying. I felt so messed up. I just felt like something was wrong with me. Like I ruined things. I think that's a big temptation as a highly driven person is you feel like you've messed it up, and you forget that God is sovereign over it all, and you can't mess up God's plans for you. I remember sittin' there on the couch with my mom, going, "All I've ever known is music". All I've ever known is being a songwriter. I started so young that that became my thing so quickly. And I've grown up with that being my title, "Riley, the artist," "Riley, the singer," "Riley, the songwriter".

Joyce Meyer: Right.

Riley Clemmons: But who am I without those things?

Joyce Meyer: Right.

Riley Clemmons: Who am I if I'm not the titles that I feel like, "Yes," that's what I wear like armor, like the fig tree, that's my Jewelry, you know. That's what I wear. Those are my leaves. And I had this moment before taking a step back where my mom was saying that. And we had this conversation of, "I think you need to figure out who Riley is. The Riley, the daughter of the highest king is". I think you gotta go back to the basics and simplify. Because I found that I could not sustain writing as a healthy artist, singing as a healthy singer, being a healthy human without understanding that my worth, my value, my identity has to, it must be something greater than the work of my own efforts. It has to be something more than that or what's the point?

Ginger Stache: Oh, that's so good. That's so important.

Riley Clemmons: And I took time away. I got quiet. I prayed. The biggest thing I prayed for was wisdom and the understanding that I am enough because I am a child of God, and I am loved by him entirely. And he calls me his child. It says that in scripture, I'm his child and that's good. And so, I took that time off and I got really quiet with the Lord, and it was about rebuilding and finding a way to be content and be joyful, knowing that all of the stuff, all of the platform, all of the title of artists could go away tomorrow, and I would still have what I need.

Ginger Stache: Yeah.

Riley Clemmons: And so, I took time off. In that period of time, it was about nine months, greater part of the year, maybe a little more than that, and by the time I was ready to start writing again, God was so intentional. We wrote the whole new record in six weeks. And it's my, which is really quick for writing an album.

Erin Cluley: Oh wow. I say that like I know that.

Riley Clemmons: For perspective...

Erin Cluley: Oh wow. I have no idea. I'm like, a week, five years, I don't know.

Riley Clemmons: I know, right? I figured I had to clarify that.

Erin Cluley: Thank you.

Riley Clemmons: That's pretty quick. And God was so intentional in giving those ideas and it's the most honest and authentic and painfully, honest music I've ever made. And that I know it wasn't me. I know it came from taking a step back to refill, to refill my spirit.

Erin Cluley: Do you feel like that Revelation you had from God about who you are came in like an instant or was it like a progression over those nine months that he slowly began to speak to you?

Riley Clemmons: You know, I think that what I found in the time leading up to knowing that I needed to take a break, I found that I was triggered by so many things. Like little triggers, opening my phone, seeing somebody else doing a great job, it made me so angry. It would made me so mad. And I had to check myself. Because that's dangerous territory, right?

Joyce Meyer: "Why do I feel that way"?

Riley Clemmons: Why? It goes back to the why, right? "Why am I so angry when a brother or sister, in Christ is doing something good"?

Joyce Meyer: Or they do something, you know, greater than me.

Riley Clemmons: Right, something greater than me. That was the base, that was the core of the trigger. And I had a hard time, I remember talking with friends and family in that time, "Why are you so upset, Riley"? And I found that I was embarrassed to even say that out loud.

Joyce Meyer: We don't mind somebody doing good as long as they don't do better than us.

Riley Clemmons: That's good! That's good.

Erin Cluley: So true.

Riley Clemmons: That's a good word right there.

Ginger Stache: "You can do this good, but don't go here".

Riley Clemmons: "You can do marginally less good than me. And I will be really happy for you. But the minute", and it's so real, and it's so uncomfortable to talk about is what I found.

Ginger Stache: It is, that's the honesty.

Riley Clemmons: It's so uncomfortable to say, "Yeah, I'm jealous of that person. I'm really jealous. There's envy in my heart".

Joyce Meyer: That's the only thing that sets you free though. The truth sets you free, and it's not the truth about somebody else, it's the truth about yourself. There's nothing better that a person can do, and I wanna say it again, than to learn how to get honest with yourself about yourself.

Ginger Stache: Well, we have a lot of people who've been writing in on social media, with situations...

Erin Cluley: Yeah, I've been meaning to say them out loud, and I just keep getting wrapped up in the conversation here.

Ginger Stache: People are being honest with some of the things they're dealing with.

Erin Cluley: Let me share them.

Riley Clemmons: You're up, Erin, it's your turn, sister.

Joyce Meyer: Let's talk about somebody else's problem.

Riley Clemmons: Yeah, I like that.

Erin Cluley: Do that.

Riley Clemmons: Pivot.

Erin Cluley: Okay, so this is really interesting. This is edithpando1264. She says, "I worked for the public library for 21 years. I started believing I wasn't good enough because I don't have a degree. I'm still on that lie, and with God's love and guidance, I've come a long way". But I imagine 21 years is a long time to do something and to see your identity in that one thing. Another one, EvaandCurtis333, she says, "As a mom of two kids, I feel like I'm not enough, that I'm not doing enough". Doing. "Even if I've done my best, it's never enough. Maybe because of my upbringing, growing up not enough in the eyes of my parents has given me a lot of anxiety and insecurities".

Riley Clemmons: Wow.

Erin Cluley: So, I think that's so relatable. I think there's so many of us, speaking as a mom of two kids, I constantly feel like I'm not good enough. And like, the moms around me, they know how to make crafts and well-balanced meals all the time.

Ginger Stache: I doubt it. I doubt that. It looks like they do.

Erin Cluley: Well, it sure looks pretty on Instagram. And last night, we had to drive through something, 'cause we were home for 30 minutes before we had to leave. And so, it's that constant feeling of not being good enough. So, I understand what they're saying.

Joyce Meyer: You know, we took a survey here, one time, long time ago. I don't even know what provoked it, but it was like, "If you could ask Jesus a question, what would it be"? And the most answer that we got was, "How can I know when I've done enough"?

Riley Clemmons: Wow.

Joyce Meyer: And what you're expressing...

Ginger Stache: That's a bunch of Christians saying that.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah.

Riley Clemmons: Wow!

Joyce Meyer: But you're saying, you know, "I don't feel good enough". And the truth is you're not. That's the beauty of it is "I'm not good enough. It's his grace and mercy that is allowing me to do what I'm doing," you know. And if we can accept that, you know, "I'm not perfect, I'm not good enough, I do make mistakes, and that's why I need Jesus".

Riley Clemmons: That's good. That's really good.

Joyce Meyer: Then we can stop, you know, trying so hard to be perfect. And the more you relax, the greater your gift can flow through you.

Erin Cluley: Yeah, that's crazy because we try so hard. I mean, as like I strive, you can feel yourself strive...

Joyce Meyer: Let's say that again, the more you relax, the greater your gift can flow through you.

Erin Cluley: That's a life-changing statement.

Ginger Stache: That's huge.

Riley Clemmons: I'm gonna relax, I'm gonna let my shoulder come down.

Ginger Stache: Everybody now, just kinda...

Riley Clemmons: Relax.

Ginger Stache: Loosen the muscles.

Joyce Meyer: The more you learn to just trust God to do it, instead of me trying to do something, you know, letting him do it through me. You know, I practically have lived on a platform, and I finally decided "If I can't enjoy this, I'm gonna spend my whole life in a knot and never enjoy anything". And that's what God wants us to enjoy what we do.

Ginger Stache: And that applies to every platform, right?

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, everything.

Ginger Stache: If I'm a mom, you know, my platform is with those kids. And if I work in a library, you know, my platform is being there and helping those people and serving them well. And if we can relax and be comfortable in where God has us, and I say that knowing that it's not an easy thing to do all the time by any means, but I love what you said, it changes things for us. And you talk about grace, and mercy, and anointing, and ease, all these things in the Bible that God has talked about that he gives us, it's for that purpose.

Joyce Meyer: And it's not my talent that helps people, it's God's anointing.

Ginger Stache: Yeah.

Riley Clemmons: Good, that's so good.

Joyce Meyer: I mean, you know, he can anoint a stick and they'll have more success than somebody who's trying really hard to be popular. And, you know, we're not called to be famous, we're called to be content.

Riley Clemmons: Say that one again.

Joyce Meyer: I mean, how many so-called famous people are really content?

Riley Clemmons: Yeah, that's good.

Joyce Meyer: And really relaxed and just enjoying, I think you just have to have experience and I think you have to do it the wrong way, and the right way, and then the wrong way, and then the right way.

Ginger Stache: Do you also think that even as you age and you've done it for a lot of years, I mean, we all have things that when we're 24, you know, we're working through, but I think it's something that never stops.

Joyce Meyer: It never stops.

Ginger Stache: At Erin's age and my age and your age, we're still working through those things in Christ all the time.

Joyce Meyer: I think sometimes the older you get, the quicker you recognize bad behavior in yourself.

Ginger Stache: That's the hope, isn't it? Yeah, that gives you peace.

Joyce Meyer: Yesterday, I was rude and selfish within like, five minutes. And my two daughters were there and one of them called me out on one and the other one called me out on the other. And you know, there would have been a time when that would have devastated me, but I've learned to thank God that he shows me those things. Because I cannot fix anything that I'm blind to. That's why it's foolish to get condemned when you get convicted, or to let that conviction turn into condemnation. Because when the Holy Spirit convicts us of some kind of wrong behavior, we need to thank him. "Thank you that you care enough about me that you don't leave me the way I am, stuck and blind in my own mess". And I've still got so much to learn, you know. I'm sure that I'll still be learning things when Jesus comes to get me.

Riley Clemmons: That's so good. I mean, just hearing this. And I think the thing that I've always connected to the most through your teaching is the vulnerability. And I think that that's something that is so important in faith and faith in Jesus. I'll tell you, this was last week as I was getting ready and looking at my calendar and getting excited for the podcast. I called my mom, I talk to my mom all the time, y'all. She's a common thread in my life.

Joyce Meyer: That's good.

Erin Cluley: I feel like I know her.

Riley Clemmons: Yeah, I know she's great.

Joyce Meyer: It's good to hear you say that.

Riley Clemmons: Yeah, it is. I have a great mom, which is a big blessing. And I understand the blessing that that is, but I called her, and I was having a bit of a moment. And I was like, "Mom, who am I to go sit on a podcast with Joyce Meyer and Ginger and Erin, and these wise women at 24-year-old when I feel so imperfect, and I feel so under qualified most days. I am still learning. I'm not a Bible scholar. I'm not always the most well-spoken". And I just had this moment of such insane imposter syndrome. Like, "What in the world am I doing here? I'm not good enough for this".

Ginger Stache: We've all been right there with you, friend.

Riley Clemmons: That makes it so good to hear.

Ginger Stache: Absolutely.

Riley Clemmons: Truly it does. I just, it was in that moment though. And it was something I really had to pray through 'cause it was giving me anxiety over the next few days. And I felt, "Who are you to go sit and do that"? And I just say all that to encourage the people listening, the people hearing this. I think that so much good comes from knowing that you are not, like you said, you're not good enough.

Joyce Meyer: You're not good enough.

Riley Clemmons: And my whole purpose, and the music that I write, and the things that I do, and the songs and storytelling, all of it is to encourage the people who listen, that I am a 24-year-old woman who is hugely imperfect. I make mistakes every day. I was in a grumpy mood two days ago, I get it. And I was, I took it out on people that I shouldn't have. And yeah, I still love Jesus and I wanna keep growing. I wanna be more like him. I wanna be in the word every day. I wanna grow. And I think that I would encourage anybody listening, especially people in their twenties, because I can relate to it the most, that keep pursuing Jesus even when you don't feel like you're qualified, because I think that's a good thing. I think that so many people, including myself, run from Jesus in times when you feel like, "Oh my goodness, who am i? What am I gonna go talk about? What wisdom do I have? Why am I here"? When that insecurity starts creeping in, I think it's the invitation. We see it all through the characters in the Bible, through David, through the insecurity, through looking back at Esther's story, queen Esther's story of, "Who am I to be the queen"? And then, I love the scripture about maybe it's "For such a time as this". And using imperfect people to carry out his will.

Erin Cluley: Absolutely.

Riley Clemmons: And so, that's just been encouraging me lately.

Joyce Meyer: God uses the weak and the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.

Riley Clemmons: Yeah, that's good.

Joyce Meyer: What the world would throw away as trash, he picks up and uses.

Riley Clemmons: Yeah.

Ginger Stache: But he can't use us if we feel like that's not who we are. Like if we feel like it's our strength that makes it work, you know, we kind of just slam the lid on what God wants to do in our life. If we think, "I've got this handled," you know, at some point we're gonna fall up the stairs.

Erin Cluley: It's true, it will happen to you.

Joyce Meyer: You absolutely have to remember that any good thing that you do is God working through you.

Riley Clemmons: Yeah, that's good.

Joyce Meyer: It's not you. Every day in my prayers, I say, "Apart from you, I can do nothing. In my flesh dwells no good thing".

Ginger Stache: But God gives you his righteousness.

Joyce Meyer: Right.

Ginger Stache: And that's what turns all of this around.

Joyce Meyer: Well, you know, that's what's missing. If I can just take a moment to say. In a lot of churches, a lot of church denominations, they teach a lot of good sound doctrine. I mean, I went to a good church for a long time, a denominational church, and they taught me a lot about the Trinity, baptism, salvation, but I wasn't taught anything about who I was in Christ. Nothing. And I have to know that I've been made right with God before I can do anything right. Because you can't give away what you don't have. So, if I don't have any righteousness in me, or if I'm not receiving God's mercy, how can I give you mercy? And so, I was having such a hard time loving people, and I kept hearing all these messages about loving people and loving people and being merciful. And I wanted to so bad, and every time I would mess up and be mean. And God finally told me, he said, "You're not receiving my love. How can you love anybody else? You don't have any to give away. You're not receiving my mercy". When I would do something wrong, I would punish myself instead of receiving mercy. So, we need to learn what God says about us, that we're joint heirs with Christ, and everything he worked and deserved, we get free.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. Well, we do have, Joyce has made this wonderful outline of a whole lot of scriptures that we can stand on, that are the truth of who we are instead of those thoughts in our mind, that are saying, "Who am I to be able to do this? I'm not enough". Of course, we're not, but through Christ, we are. So, this is just a really great thing, free online for you to get, to use just every day to speak these scriptures over yourself. And you can find it at: joycemeyer.org/inchrist, I-N-C-H-R-I-S-T. So, go there and check that out, 'cause it's just so good. And that is what we need to surround ourselves with.

Joyce Meyer: All the things the Bible says that you are in Christ.

Ginger Stache: And your list is long. I mean, there's a lot in the Bible that tells us who we are.

Erin Cluley: And you have to have, just what you were saying, just real fast, you have to be ready with that. I think sometimes we're surprised when things hit us, or we fall down the stairs, how you think you're good and your identity is in Christ, and then something happens and you get off your axis a bit. So, to have a list like that ready, that is scripturally, this is, like, I have it printed here. "I am alive in Christ. I am free from the law of sin and death. I am far from oppression and will not live in fear. I am complete in him who is the head over all rule and authority of every angelic and earthly power". I mean, there's so many of them. But to have that in your fingertips, to just grab when you don't feel enough is life-changing.

Ginger Stache: With the scripture, right there, to back it up.

Riley Clemmons: Right, you have the textual proof.

Erin Cluley: Yep.

Riley Clemmons: You don't have to second guess it. And I think that's so good, so good.

Ginger Stache: Because it's not the same as the world that is often saying, you know, "Build yourself up, speak whatever over yourself". Speak the Word of God over yourself.

Riley Clemmons: That's so good.

Ginger Stache: Because that's the truth that really matters. You know what? We've had so much fun, Riley. Thank you so much.

Riley Clemmons: I could talk to you ladies all the day long.

Ginger Stache: You are welcome to. You are welcome to. We love you. We know that God has a good plan for you and that he's put such good things in you. And we'll see you next time, right here, as we talk it out together, bye.

Erin Cluley: Bye.