Joyce Meyer - How Your Thoughts Affect Your Marriage - Part 1
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Ginger Stache: Hi, and welcome to, "Enjoying Everyday Life". Today, we have a special show for you. It is the man, the myth, the legend, Dave Meyer. And he is joining us today on the set of the talk it out podcast to discuss how your thoughts affect your marriage. Uh-oh, yeah, what are you thinking about your spouse? It matters. So you also know Joyce will have plenty to add to this conversation as well. Joyce and Dave have been married for 57 years. They have a lot of life experience to share. So, get nestled in, grab a cup of coffee. You will not want to miss this time of sharing stories, wisdom, and laughs.
Erin Cluley: You have no idea what we have planned for you, so.
Dave Meyer: For Joyce?
Erin Cluley: Yeah, no.
Joyce Meyer: For you.
Erin Cluley: You, Dave.
Ginger Stache: Okay.
Dave Meyer: I can walk off this set any time I want to.
Ginger Stache: He's already starting with threats. Welcome to talk it out. We have a special guest with us today on the show, one of your favorite guests of all time, Dave Meyer is here with all of the ladies today. Yay. And we know that the marriage episode that we did, quite a while ago, is the top played episode of all of talk it out. So, Dave, you're the smash hit, here.
Dave Meyer: Well, they just wanna see what's behind Joyce. "Who's the guy behind the lady"?
Joyce Meyer: Yeah right.
Ginger Stache: And I think a lot of people wanna talk about their marriage a little bit too. So, today, we're continuing our reoccurring series on "What are you thinking"? And today, we're gonna talk about the importance of marriage and the way that we think really impacts our relationships. Whether you're married or not, this is gonna be really helpful. But there's no way around it: you can think yourself into a worse marriage, sometimes.
Dave Meyer: Oh, yeah.
Joyce Meyer: After 56 and a half years, trust me, I've learned how to think right.
Erin Cluley: You both said, "Oh yeah".
Ginger Stache: Fifty-six and a half years.
Joyce Meyer: Fifty-six and a half years, yep.
Ginger Stache: That's quite an accomplishment.
Joyce Meyer: It is.
Ginger Stache: How has your thinking about each other, about marriage, in general, changed through those years?
Dave Meyer: Quite drastically. In the beginning, of course, I mean, with Joyce, you know, having gone through the childhood she went through, it was very difficult. But in those years, she was like a yo-yo. She did a lot of things erratically because of the hurt she went through. And, you know, like I told people a couple of times, she wouldn't talk to me for three, wouldn't say one word for three weeks when she got mad. So, you know, those are things that everybody, not three weeks probably, but everybody in marriage deals with situations, ups and downs, good and bad. And, you know, to have the blessings in marriage, you have to go through all those things and learn about your wife, and your life, and how to deal with those situations. And now, our marriage is so much different because we basically let each other be themselves. And really, that's God's design because his design is for, you know, her great qualities to fill my bad qualities, or qualities I don't have in my life.
Joyce Meyer: You mean there any?
Dave Meyer: I knew she'd chime in.
Erin Cluley: She was waitin' for that one.
Dave Meyer: Yeah, right. Or my good qualities to fill in her qualities. And in the beginning, she had a lot of tough situations and bad qualities that, you know, I had to be strong enough to live through. And God, I mean, I can't say it was my effort or great ability, because God had prepared me for this all the young years growing up, you know, and the relationship I have with him. And so, she asked me the other day, she said, "What do you think about marriage"? I said, "I don't think about marriage, I do marriage". And basically, what I do is...
Erin Cluley: So good.
Dave Meyer: I take the Word of God and apply it in areas that it needs to be applied. And really, you can't do that unless you know the Word of God.
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Dave Meyer: So, that's the, really, the crux of marriage is if you know the Word of God, if you're privileged to know the Word of God, which shows you how to deal with situations and you apply that word, then that gets you through those situations.
Joyce Meyer: You know, like he said, he knew that he couldn't change me. So, he would just, he would pray.
Dave Meyer: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: Well, so there's a big thing, right there. It's like...
Ginger Stache: 'cause it'd be easy to think, "She'll never change..."
Joyce Meyer: Well, yeah, and he said...
Ginger Stache: "End of story".
Joyce Meyer: I think one of the most important things that Dave has said, I wanna be sure we bring it out on this show, is that he said he knew in the beginning that marriage was forever.
Dave Meyer: Yeah, yeah.
Joyce Meyer: So, he didn't start playing that game in his head, "If you keep this up, I'm not gonna stay".
Erin Cluley: Sure, you didn't think about changing.
Joyce Meyer: You know how many people plan to get a divorce if things don't, "If this doesn't change, I'm out of here. I'm not gonna put up with this, if you don't change". And he never thought like that. He said, "This marriage is forever". And he knew he couldn't change me, which is the second biggest mistake that everybody makes is they try to change each other. And you can't...
Dave Meyer: It's an inside job.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah. You can't possibly know somebody, well, especially Dave and i. We had five dates and got married. So, we didn't know each other at all. At all. I mean, I didn't even know Dave played golf. And that's like...
Erin Cluley: Oh, man.
Joyce Meyer: That's like a major part of our life now. And...
Ginger Stache: You've also said, though, that if you had more than five dates, that, you know, it may not have worked out this way.
Joyce Meyer: He probably would have seen what he was getting and ran.
Dave Meyer: I wouldn't have.
Ginger Stache: That's so sweet.
Dave Meyer: It was a supernatural intervention, really, for me.
Joyce Meyer: He likes a challenge. I was looking, like I said, I was looking for a wife at that time. And, you know, I'd been out of service for three years and I was dating three girls and I thought, "These are not the girls..."
Ginger Stache: Well, look at you, Dave Meyer!
Dave Meyer: Oh, you like that huh?
Joyce Meyer: He believes that faith without works is dead.
Dave Meyer: Yeah, faith without works is dead. I mean, you're not gonna find the right one, you're going to sit around and hope they come your way.
Erin Cluley: That's good advice for the singles, today.
Dave Meyer: Although, it did happen that way. A guy needed a ride home, and you know, of course, I think I shared this on the last show. A guy I worked with in the engineering field needed a ride home one night, and there she was outside. And, you know, I had prayed for somebody, and I prayed for somebody that needed help.
Joyce Meyer: That was a mistake.
Dave Meyer: No, it wasn't a mistake. That's how I gotcha. And so, along comes Joyce. She's out there washing her car in short shorts. And I said, "Oh, she looks cute". And so, back then, you roll down the windows, you know, hand rolled 'em down and...
Ginger Stache: It took a little while... "Squeak, squeak, squeak".
Dave Meyer: I said, "Hey, after you're done washing that car, you wanna wash mine"? And the first word comes out of her mouth is, "Buddy, if you want your car washed, wash it yourself". And so, what went off in me was, "That's the girl for me. That's the girl for me". And, you know, that timing, I mean, that had to be supernatural for that to happen.
Joyce Meyer: It had to be divine intervention. I mean, who would think like that?
Erin Cluley: So when she was a yo-yo in the beginning...
Dave Meyer: Yeah.
Erin Cluley: What did you think?
Dave Meyer: Up and down, yeah.
Erin Cluley: Did you think about...?
Dave Meyer: Well, no, I knew what she had gone through and why she was in this situation, why her condition was that way. It didn't make it, you know, easy or anything, but it still gave me an understanding of where she was and why she was that way. And so, that helped a lot. You know, and like I said, I knew marriage, you know, I'd been raised in a Christian family and I knew marriage was for life. And I believe that in my heart. And so that wasn't even an issue. So, the next step was, "Ok, we deal with each situation as it comes up". You know, and it's like anything in life, you learn by experience or growth, you know, little by little, step by step. And so, we learned about each other. And now, our marriage is, you know, a great marriage. And of course, it has been for many, many years. It's a great marriage and we never have an argument anymore. But we...
Joyce Meyer: I think we do occasionally, but he doesn't think so.
Ginger Stache: So, you argue about if it's an argument or not.
Dave Meyer: In the beginning, if we had words, I call it words, if we had words, she would, I would, after we kinda got over it, I would never remember it. But she could remember things two years back, or three years...
Erin Cluley: Oh, absolutely we can.
Dave Meyer: I mean, she had it charted one thing after another. I mean, it would come out, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Joyce Meyer: Well, my memory's not that good anymore.
Dave Meyer: Well, that's why our marriage is so good.
Ginger Stache: Something to look forward to for all of our marriages.
Joyce Meyer: He was like, "Where do you keep all this stuff stored"?
Dave Meyer: I thought, "Man..."
Ginger Stache: She has an excel spreadsheet.
Dave Meyer: "You got a computer for a mind, how do you remember all this stuff"? Cause when it's over, it's over. I just forget it. It's done with, you know, and so go on.
Joyce Meyer: I remember when Dave came to me and he said, "You know what? I've tried every way that I know how to make you happy, and you just don't wanna be happy. So, I'm gonna be happy whether you are or not". And oh, that infuriated me because he would just go on and enjoy his life no matter how miserable I was. But it actually was one of the best things he did for me because if you let an unhappy person, make you unhappy, then you're codependent. And a lot of people watching are. They wait to see if they can be happy till they see if their kid that's a problem is happy or their husband that's a problem is happy. And each one of us is responsible for our own joy.
Dave Meyer: Yes, we are.
Joyce Meyer: And so, he went ahead and enjoyed his life and eventually I thought, it became an example to me. And I wanted what he had. So, for Christian people watching, if you're married to somebody that's either an unbeliever or somebody that's a wounded believer, you need to live the Christian life in front of them. Don't stay so busy trying to get them to do what's right. But you just be stable in doing what's right. And that really had a greater impact on me than anything. And then as far as thinking is concerned, one of the big mistakes that I made is I would always think about what was wrong with Dave. And that's what we shouldn't do. Because if you took a list and you wrote down everything that's right with the person you're married to and everything that's wrong with 'em, I can pretty much guarantee that the right list would be a lot longer than the wrong list.
Erin Cluley: I did that one day.
Joyce Meyer: And was that right?
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, it took some work though because I was really mad that day. But it did take some work.
Ginger Stache: So, the wrong things are at the forefront of your mind.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, those all came out, that long, the wrong list got longer first.
Dave Meyer: You had to search for the good.
Erin Cluley: I did, but it helped.
Joyce Meyer: But it's like when we focus on those things, then you forget all the good things. And what we need to do is pray about the things that are bothering us. And always remembering, you know, anytime you pray for somebody else, you better do it with some humility, because you got issues too.
Ginger Stache: That is such a good point.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, I mean, I just...
Dave Meyer: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: Anytime I pray about something that I think is wrong with somebody else, I always say, you know, "I got plenty of issues of my own, so, I do this with all humility".
Dave Meyer: And the other thing is when you pray for somebody, don't expect everything to work out perfect right off the bat. Matter of fact, it usually gets worse. Because then, when you're praying and God's working on 'em, then their flesh is gonna act up. And people think, "Well, prayer didn't work". But that's the time to get encouraged, not discouraged. And most people get discouraged because they think their prayer isn't working, when in actuality it is working.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, I had that exact experience praying for Tim. And I had prayed this verse that I knew God gave me for him for years in our marriage when this problem came to light, that he had a problem with pornography. And at first, I was like, "God, how can this be? You know, I've been praying this for so long. So, why are we having this come up now"? And it was just like, God told me so clearly in my spirit, "It's come up now because you've been praying this. He's going to deal with it. You're gonna get past it". So, it does, it feels like the prayer wasn't answered. Everything fell apart instead. And sometimes, you have to get to that point for the prayer to be answered.
Joyce Meyer: 'cause that's true, when God starts dealing with you, you usually act worse.
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: And so, you see, now, when I act bad, you can just...
Ginger Stache: "God's working! Yes".
Joyce Meyer: "God's answering my prayers".
Dave Meyer: I give you a certain amount of time.
Ginger Stache: Well, we do love it when Joyce is teaching, and she always uses so many great stories about Dave. And every now and then, Dave disagrees on a story. And...
Joyce Meyer: He thinks I exaggerate. I don't know how anybody could think that I would exaggerate.
Dave Meyer: You embEllish, embEllish stories.
Erin Cluley: Nice.
Dave Meyer: That means you add to.
Ginger Stache: Well, we're gonna take a look at one of those experiences that we had at a conference. And then we're gonna come back and dissect it and talk about a few of the things that come up in this conversation. It's gonna be fun, watch this.
Joyce Meyer: Dave did a little shopping today. And he bought two paintings, that he loved, and guess who didn't? And do they match anything in the house? Dave likes things to stand out. But the problem is, he wants everything to stand out. So, you go in a room and you think you're going crazy, because it's all standing out. Okay now, this is between sessions and I'm not liking this. And I can feel it coming. How many of you know, you can feel it coming? It starts somewhere down in here and just moves up. And here's the trick, you gotta stop it before it gets to your mouth. I didn't want the pictures. I didn't want to spend the money. But we have 'em. And I realized, I am going tonight to teach on entering the rest of God.
Come on, I am going tonight to teach on entering the rest of God, and the devil is standing on his head trying to upset me. And I'm not going there, been there, done that, no, thank you. So he can just put his pictures in his room, in his office, lock himself in there and just trying to figure out what to look at. He's talking to me about these paintings, and I've got like a million things running through my head trying to get ready for all this stuff and I'm like... "Painting... Painting... Painting... How much...What...Huh"? And then I had to go see them, and I didn't wanna go see them, because I didn't have time to go see them. And then when I saw them, I really didn't want them, but we have 'em. No, no, no. No! Do not give him a microphone. Now, he...
Dave Meyer: You know, this was long overdue, go over and sit down for a minute, will ya? This has been long overdue. I coulda bought the most beautiful picture of Jesus and she woulda said, "I don't like it"! Hey, listen, she's inferring that I'm always right. Well, I'm married to, "Ms. Wrong". The problem is, her first name is, "Never".
Joyce Meyer: C'mon ladies, help me.
Ginger Stache: Dave was just saying that you still love those paintings, right?
Joyce Meyer: I still don't like 'em.
Erin Cluley: Do you still have 'em?
Dave Meyer: Oh, yes, absolutely!
Joyce Meyer: You would not believe the artwork that Dave has in his office.
Dave Meyer: And it's beautiful. All of it's beautiful.
Joyce Meyer: Everything in there is different.
Dave Meyer: It's a matter of opinion...
Joyce Meyer: It's like...
Dave Meyer: My dear.
Joyce Meyer: I know. He'll have like a snow-covered mountain and a big sunset.
Dave Meyer: A sunset? What sunset?
Joyce Meyer: But he does have a lot of pictures of me, so that kind of level it out.
Ginger Stache: Aww, helps counter it all.
Erin Cluley: It does counter it.
Ginger Stache: So, let's talk about some of the things that came up in that conversation.
Dave Meyer: Well, one thing that came up is now I have freedom to get as many pictures as I want.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, I did hear that.
Dave Meyer: Because if she didn't learn her lesson, I'd have to keep going, you know, to help teach her.
Ginger Stache: It's your duty to help her with this.
Joyce Meyer: It's your duty, yeah. He always tells me that God had him marry me to crucify my flesh. And I said, "You're not far from wrong".
Dave Meyer: That's a portion of it, yes.
Erin Cluley: That's a...The difference of opinion has been one that's come up for us quite a bit, especially in 2020. So, everybody's opinions about everything, everybody was talking about their opinions.
Ginger Stache: Big opinions.
Erin Cluley: Big opinions. And that was also a year that mike and I started going through some really difficult things, so it exacerbated our difference of opinions. And he had a really difficult time with the fact that I didn't agree with him on everything.
Dave Meyer: Mm-hmm.
Erin Cluley: He told me later that it made, excuse me, Dave.
Dave Meyer: I know...
Erin Cluley: He said, it made, like for bigger things, it made him feel unsafe that I didn't think exactly like he thought because he thought that meant we weren't unified. And I said, "No, I just have a different opinion. And it's okay".
Dave Meyer: That's it.
Erin Cluley: So, I remember reading your book about "Loving people who are hard to love". It came out around then. And there was a couple of pages, you talked about how you have to learn that it's okay to disagree, like, agree to disagree. And I highlighted it, and I took a picture and sent it to him and I said, "This is what we need". 'cause I think it's not intuitive to just be okay with that.
Dave Meyer: Yeah, well, she was that way. She was that way because of the way she had been treated. And she thought when I disagreed with her on something or I had my opinion on something, it wasn't actually a disagreement. I have an opinion: and she's got an opinion. You know, if there's something where we don't have the same opinion, I'm not saying her opinion is wrong, but I have the right to my opinion. And so, she felt like I was saying her opinion is wrong by voicing my opinion, which is not really the truth.
Joyce Meyer: It would help though if you said, "You could be right".
Ginger Stache: That doesn't hurt, yeah.
Dave Meyer: Over a period of time, I did. I said that. I said, "You have a right to your opinion. And I have a right to mine". And over a period of time, you know, she has, you know, saw that, you know. Because I can see why she couldn't at first, because of the way she was treated all her young life growing up. But then after a period of time, she realized that she was doing that, and it set her free.
Joyce Meyer: I felt rejected, if he didn't agree with my opinion. And God had to teach me that "Just because he rejects your opinion doesn't mean he's rejecting you, as a person".
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Erin Cluley: And those are hard to sometimes separate.
Dave Meyer: Separate, right.
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Erin Cluley: That's good.
Ginger Stache: I remember having similar things in our marriage where, you know, we're just very different, whether it's opinions or just the way that we handle things or whatever. And I remember thinking, "I wish he was more like me". Which is not, that's a terrible thing to think. I mean...
Erin Cluley: But you are great, so.
Ginger Stache: Thank you, and I love you for that. But there are so many things that he brings that I need. And like you guys were talking about earlier, filling in for one another. But that thought of, "I wish he was more", whatever, "I wish he was less", whatever, instead of appreciating what God puts in him and how we complement each other and how he really does help take me places, balance things out, you know, that I wouldn't go without him. So, that thought process, whether it's just opinion or...We're meant to be different, that's the whole point.
Dave Meyer: Yeah, most people marry opposites, you know. And the reason is because the strengths that you need, they have. And the weaknesses that you have, you know, they fill.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, Tim and I have one that's very similar to you guys too, and that's that I'm a storyteller, like I've been accused of exaggerating, maybe once or twice.
Dave Meyer: Most women do, probably.
Ginger Stache: But at the same time, I'm a condenser, so, you know, I want it to have a point. Tim is a detail man. You know, he's an engineer: so it's all about the details and the stories. I can gloss over and at some point, I'm just like, "Get to the point," you know, I don't need the whole spreadsheet of...
Joyce Meyer: That's exactly the way I am.
Ginger Stache: Everything that's happening. But I have also learned to appreciate some of the things that I could gloss over and miss that he brings out and he holds onto, but that's taken some time too.
Dave Meyer: And I told her, you know, "You don't like detail, yet when you teach, you teach with detail". And so, you know.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, that's interesting.
Dave Meyer: You can't have it both ways.
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: I'm a bottom-line person. I can go through a museum in 30 minutes and Dave can be in there for three days.