Joyce Meyer - Who is the Holy Spirit? - Part 2
- Watch
- Audio
- Donate
- How to know Jesus
Hi, and welcome to "Enjoying Everyday Life". Today, the second part of our discussion on the Holy Spirit that we began yesterday. It's a practical, eye-opening look into something that can be a bit confusing and sometimes even divisive, but that's not what God wants. Joyce, Erin Cluley, and I, discuss from a talk it out podcast, how the Holy Spirit works in our lives and the wonderful things he offers us once we allow him to lead us. He is such a benefit to us. And I really think you're going to enjoy this, but more than that, it could change a lot for you. So, take a look.
Ginger Stache: I love that so much. That the Holy Spirit gives us what we don't know, and helps us not to do the wrong things, to do the right things. But your question was such a good one: "Are you willing to let the Holy Spirit tinker with you"?
Joyce Meyer: Yeah.
Ginger Stache: You know?
Joyce Meyer: Are you willing to let him guide you? You know, I've been reading a book: I gave you a copy of it too. It was like what different evangelicals believed about the Holy Spirit.
Erin Cluley: Interesting.
Joyce Meyer: And it is interesting because there was a wide variety of beliefs. Now they all believed that we needed the Holy Spirit. Some believe that you got everything when you were born again. A lot of people believe in what they called, "A second blessing". And I got a couple scriptures, I wanna read in a minute. You know, the disciples were born again and received the Holy Spirit, but then Jesus told them to go wait in the upper room until they received the power from on high. So, they received the Holy Spirit when they were born again, but they weren't filled with the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost. And I've got scripture to back it up. But in that book, this is what E.M. Bounds said about how to describe the Holy Spirit. E.M. Bounds said, "The anointing is that indefinable, indescribable something which pierces the heart because it comes immediately from the Lord. Some call it unction. Anointing gives the words of the preacher point sharpness and power and stirs many a dead congregation. It gives him or her directness and simplicity of utterance". So, I'm talking about the anointing because when you have the Holy Spirit, it's the Holy Spirit that anoints you and that anointing is literally the presence and the power of God in your life. And you know, we don't need dead religion. We don't need just a bunch of rules and regulations, and you know, just a bunch of nothing, but doctrine. I mean, we all need good, sound, solid doctrine, but people need to know how to live. They need to know how to get through Monday, Tuesday, how to raise their kids, how to survive what's going on in the world today. And we need every gift the Holy Spirit has got. And the Bible says, "He gives them as he wills". But I believe that we can all experience all the gifts of the Holy Spirit at different times in our life, as we need them.
Erin Cluley: So, are you saying we don't need to stress out about which one we have...
Joyce Meyer: No.
Erin Cluley: Or are given.
Joyce Meyer: No.
Erin Cluley: Because I think I just want to take whatever it is he wants to give me.
Joyce Meyer: That's up to God, you know.
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: And it says it's for the good and the profit of all. Now, when I came into the baptism of the Holy Spirit it was back in the 70's when there was a big charismatic outpouring all across the earth. And I mean, in every denomination people were being baptized in the Holy Spirit. And to be honest, we were a little crazy, you know, it's like, I don't know. I guess it's kinda like when you're touched with fire, for the first time, you can't be quiet. And I got asked to leave my church that I was in because they said, "You either gonna have to be quiet or leave". And being quiet wasn't an option for me, so, I got the left foot of fellowship. But we don't have to be crazy: we don't have to be fanatical, you know. The Holy Spirit should be a normal part of our experience with God. I mean, you really can't, you're not teaching people the whole counsel of the Word of God if you're not teaching them the importance and the power of the Holy Spirit. Let me just give you these two scriptures, so I don't forget 'em. John 20:21 and 22, "Again Jesus said, 'peace be with you! As the father has sent me, so I'm sending you'. And with that he breathed on them and said, 'receive the Holy Spirit'". That was the disciples. Now, the same men in acts 1:4, and then, 5-8 says, "And while being in their company and eating with them he commanded them not to leave Jerusalem but to wait for what the father had promised of which he said, 'you have heard me speak. For John baptized with water, but not many days from now you shall be baptized with and placed in, introduced into the Holy Spirit. And you shall receive power, ability, efficiency, and might when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth'". So he breathed on them as it received the Holy Spirit, I believe, it's me. I believe that's when they were born again. But then he told those same people to wait to be filled with the Holy Spirit. So, I'm not saying that you can't be filled with the Holy Spirit at the same time you're born again, but I don't think that's just an assumption that we should make across the board.
Ginger Stache: That there's no more.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah a lot of people, if you noticed, I don't know if you've read any of that book yet or not, but a lot of people called it "The second blessing," that you, I mean, and some of the great men of God believe that you had to have that second blessing, that outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Because what the baptism the Holy Spirit is, just so everybody knows. It's given to you for service in the Kingdom of God. I was baptized in the Holy Spirit right before God called me to preach. It's not just a bunch of little gifts to play around with or try to impress each other with. It's like, if you're not ready to serve God, then you don't really need the Holy Spirit. Because you don't have to be a preacher to serve God: you just need to be a Christian that actually gets out in the world and acts like a Christian.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, you know my experience was different in some ways because I didn't have that moment in the car where everything came down. And I think it was because I was searching and walking different steps and different paths all along. And so, I would see more of the Holy Spirit active in my life. And I remember long before anything else, I just, I knew that I had the gift of faith and especially for healing. And I could pray for people and see healing in their life and just so exciting, and yet, I felt like maybe something's wrong, because for me, I didn't have the gift of speaking in tongues, and this was, you know, when I was in my early 20's. And I was like, "Why God, would...Do you not love me the way you love them? Is there something? What's in me that I need to fix"? And I think I just got so wrapped up in it that, you know, then it was about me and it wasn't about God doing anything. And so, God got me at a time where I was just so broken over a loss that I had in my life, was just on the floor, a crying mess, and the Holy Spirit came in, and I cannot even explain to you the comfort and peace. And I mean, still now, it's just so overwhelming to think about it. And then, you know, that is when I began to speak differently and had that prayer language, and things just, it's like God is saying, "I don't have to do things the way you want me to do: I know better".
Joyce Meyer: Right, everybody's experience is different.
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: Please want everybody that's watching today to understand that. Everybody's experience is different. You don't necessarily have to feel anything. What you need to watch for is the evidence of the Holy Spirit in your life.
Ginger Stache: Amen, that's so true.
Joyce Meyer: You'll see the evidence. You'll see yourself being able to do things that you couldn't do before.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, it can't be just about emotion.
Joyce Meyer: No, it can't be. And the scripture says in Luke 11:13, "If you being evil know how to give good gifts that are of advantage to your children, how much more will your Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask and continue to ask him"?
Ginger Stache: I continued: that's for sure.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, I'm just really, I mean, I've got myself set, you know, I'm gonna be sharing this a lot in different ways because I'm just very concerned that the Holy Spirit is just being ignored way too much and he is so important in our everyday life.
Erin Cluley: He is. As I've grown, like out of high school leaving that church, and just becoming a wife and a mom, I've a new appreciation for what he brings to my life. And I have said that, we've said that, we've had this conversation with friends who don't know about the Holy Spirit. And so, I'll explain to them what my relationship with God is like, and how important it is that I can have him. And as I'm explaining this, I can see their faces and they're like, "What are you talking about"?
Joyce Meyer: Yeah.
Erin Cluley: Because people don't understand what a gift it is to have him, and to be all consumed by him.
Joyce Meyer: So many people just go to church.
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: And I'm not saying they don't love God. I'm not saying that they're not born again. I'm not saying they won't go to heaven. But they don't have a real, deep, personal relationship with God. I mean, I remember the night I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. I bowled on Friday nights. And I was bowling really bad that night. And you know, after I was filled with the spirit, I started hearing God speak to me and... Not verbally, out loud, but in my heart. And I heard the Holy Spirit say, "Why don't you ask me to help you bowl"? And I thought, "What? You don't care about anybody's bowling. I'm not gonna ask you to help me bowl". But I did. And I started bowling better. And I found out God cares about everything that concerns you, everything.
Ginger Stache: I'm surprised you're not on the pro tour now.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah.
Erin Cluley: She probably could but she doesn't have time for it.
Ginger Stache: Just bowlin' 300 games all the time.
Joyce Meyer: Well, this morning, when I did my hair, you know, I wanted my hair to look good for tv. And so, I prayed that God would help me get my hair curled right.
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Erin Cluley: It worked.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah.
Erin Cluley: You look great.
Joyce Meyer: And it did, it looked...
Ginger Stache: You look fantastic.
Joyce Meyer: And so, you can pray about anything. You don't have to just pray for what you think the big things are: God wants to be part of everything in your life.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, let's talk about some of those benefits of the Holy Spirit, because it's amazing. Scripture backs all of this. That's the most important thing. He's our "Strength," and that's in Romans 8:26 he's our "Advocate". He is "There for us all the time:" that's John 14. He's our "Hope," Romans 5:5. He's our "Peace," Philippians 4:7, the list goes on and on and on. He's our "Comforter" when we need it. And so...
Joyce Meyer: That's a big one.
Ginger Stache: Yes, it is.
Joyce Meyer: He's actually called, "The helper," "The Parakletos," in Greek. That's "The comforter" and "The helper". Just think about that. You have...
Ginger Stache: What a wonderful thing.
Joyce Meyer: The Amplified Bible says he's "The standby". Which I love that, that the Holy Spirit's just standing by all the time waiting for you to ask for his help.
Ginger Stache: Mm...That's so great.
Erin Cluley: I have, I just, I'm gonna have to share with what I'm walking through right now. And I'm gonna ask the Holy Spirit to help me not cry, because my lashes look really pretty, and I don't want them to fall off.
Joyce Meyer: You don't want 'em to fall off.
Erin Cluley: So, I'll just blink a lot. But I am living out everything you just said. And we're going through a really hard family time, and our loved one is not doing well, and they're in the hospital. And so, it's my husband's stepdad. So, he's in Oklahoma and I'm here. And he said, "Erin, you stay with the kids. Let's keep it as normal as we possibly can and I'll go". And so, all week it's one: a struggle of not being with him to support him. Two: I love this man who's in the hospital. We don't know what's gonna happen. And so, I have the most peace. And I cannot explain, people keep asking, "Are you doing okay? Is there anything you need"? I mean, I do need a cookie. I told Ginger, "I need a cookie". But...
Ginger Stache: We took care of that.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, it was really good. But I can't explain on the inside like it is like I'm wearing a blanket on the inside. And yes, I'm sad and it's hard, and I don't know the answers, but I do know that anytime I've tried to make a decision this week, like, "When do I leave"? He has given me very clearly, in my spirit, "Now is not the time," or, "Okay, now it's time to go". And I'm getting answers to things that I don't know how to answer on my own. And I'm getting strength to do this by myself, this week, while mike's gone. And I'm sad, and he's my advocate. And a verse, I read this morning, I think I forgot the reference, but it says, "The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the spirit is life and peace". And I mean, it's real.
Joyce Meyer: It's Romans 8:6.
Erin Cluley: Thank you. I knew I could count on you to know that.
Joyce Meyer: Now, I don't know 'em all, but I knew that one.
Erin Cluley: You knew that one. That's a good one. But to be able to know that even in the midst of a terrible circumstance, the Holy Spirit has come, because I invited him to, and he's walking my whole family step by step.
Joyce Meyer: Well, how many people watching today need comfort?
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: You know, and we run to people to comfort us. And I mean, that's all well and good, especially, if it's a Christian person that's letting the Holy Spirit work through them. We can comfort one another, and we should comfort one another. Actually, what the scripture says in Corinthians is that we "Should receive the comfort of the Holy Spirit so we can comfort one another with the comfort we've received from him". And so...
Erin Cluley: Yeah, because now, I know what it feels like, and I have experienced what this is. And so, when somebody else is hurting I can know how to show them or point them to, "This is what", nobody else can help you. Nobody else can fill that hole, or that hurt that you have inside of you, that pain, but the Holy Spirit can fill that up. So, yeah, I love that verse.
Joyce Meyer: Zechariah 4:6 says, "'it's not by might, not by power, but by my spirit,' says the Lord". And so, we really have to learn to lean on and depend on the Holy Spirit. And, you know, there was such a marked difference in the disciples after the day of Pentecost. Peter, who denied Christ three times, after the Holy Spirit flooded that upper room, he went out into the streets of Jerusalem and preached so boldly that 3,000 souls were added to the church that one day. So, it gives you courage. It gives you boldness. It gives you power. Enables you to do things like Saul. Says, "When the spirit of the Lord came on him, he was turned into another man". And that's literally, like, I feel, sometimes, like, when I go up on the platform, to teach the word, sometimes, when I'm done, I'm like, "Was that really me"? You know, it's like I said, things I didn't even know. "Was that really me"? And so, the Holy Spirit really can work through you in a powerful way, but it's all about surrender. You can't run your own life and let him run it too.
Ginger Stache: And after you have experiences, like we all have, you realize pretty quickly that running your own life is not as successful as you think it will be. And you know...
Erin Cluley: There's no peace in it.
Ginger Stache: Exactly. And when you see the work of God in your life, when you see the Holy Spirit being active you want more of it because it is so powerful. So, now, we know that the Holy Spirit is active and available for every one of us, such a key point. We know all the benefits that he can bring to us. We know about the gifts and how important they are, how much they can add to what God wants to do in our life. So, let me ask about the difference between the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
Joyce Meyer: Good, I'm glad you mentioned that. Well, if I had to choose, which, thank God, I don't. But if I had to the fruit is probably more important because people need to see the Fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, meekness, gentleness, humility, self-control. Those are the things that when the Holy Spirit comes to live in us, he brings that fruit with him. But it comes as a seed and so the Word of God is called "The water of the word". It's really interesting when you put it all together. So, a seed has to be watered and it has to have son-shine: s-o-n-s-h-i-n-e. So, time with God, studying the word causes that seed then to come into full bloom and to grow up and begin to not only be in your spirit, but start to fill your soul, you think about loving people, you think about being kind, you think about humility. You begin to recognize when you're operating in pride, and you know that's not right, and you want it to be right. And then, eventually, people will see those things in you. And there's nothing, I don't think, that... Impresses is not the right word. But if you wanna be a witness to somebody, there's nothing that witnesses to them more, than for them to see you change, and to see like, a mean person become kind, or a proud person become humble. And that really, to me, that's the greatest change of all.
Erin Cluley: Mm-hmm. I love what you said in the clip we watched earlier when you talked about how... Because that could feel really overwhelming. And if this is all new to you, "I need to accomplish the whole Fruit of the Spirit? That's a lot". But how kindly he is to just like pick a thing, at a time, and he's not changing all of you, and giving you patience, and joy, and all that at the same time. But he's so gentle to say, at least, for me, "Today, we're gonna work on patience".
Joyce Meyer: Yes.
Erin Cluley: "And let's just focus on that one thing". And it's not everything has to be figured out at one time, because he just he leads us to each thing he needs us to.
Ginger Stache: We like to work on joy a lot more than we like to work on patience.
Erin Cluley: That one's a fun one. Joy is fun.
Ginger Stache: But we need the patience, and the joy, and the peace, and the self-control all of it. That...
Joyce Meyer: All of it.
Ginger Stache: Those are things that, you know, I've found that I really have to study in the word, to help develop those things, those gifts that God has given that seed of the fruit like you were talking about. But we have responsibility to help cultivate that fruit.
Joyce Meyer: Gifts are given, but fruit has to be developed.
Ginger Stache: Right. So, one of the things is like, every morning, and I'm so glad it's just a habit now. It's part of part of what happens automatically almost, is before I even lift my head, it's just, you know, "Good morning, father. Good morning, Lord. Good morning, Holy Spirit". And, "I need all of you. I need you, as a whole, so much in my life. And please let the fruit of the Holy Spirit be strong in me today. Help me". Because there are so many ways that I really, really need that, you know. It's hard to say what my mouth would say, otherwise. You know, I hate to even think of some of the alternatives. So, just making that a daily habit. And it doesn't guarantee that I'm not gonna step in there with some self, and make some pretty egregious mistakes along the way. But I have the benefit of not trying to do it all on my own and that's huge.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, my husband is a, I call him a piddler. He just like, it just takes him so long sometimes to do stuff. And I was waiting last night for him to, I wanted to go out and sit in a certain chair in the living room, and he was gonna go up to his office. He likes to watch sports. It's his man cave up there. But he had eaten, and he was doing his few dishes. And it just took him so long to do it. And I went out and I'm like, "When are you gonna get outta here"? And he's like, "I got to get out of my own house"? And he said, "You are so impatient". And that is probably still my greatest weakness. And I'm not impatient with God. I know how to wait on God. I know there's no point in trying to rush him. He's not gonna do it any faster than you want him to. But slow people are just hard for me. So, you can all pray for me that I can be really kind to slow people.
Ginger Stache: You throw me in on that one, too. I'll take those prayers, definitely.
Erin Cluley: You two make me walk fast. So, we all keep up with you.
Joyce Meyer: I move pretty quick.
Erin Cluley: You are fast.
Ginger Stache: Are there any things that you would like to end this with as an encouragement? Like things that you've seen in your life that you're just so grateful for the Holy Spirit or even a way that you would encourage someone to not be stressed or confused, but to allow God to do this in their life.
Joyce Meyer: Well, one of the things I would say is if you don't really know that much about what we're talking about, it would be great if you got a good book. And I said a good book, on the Holy Spirit. You're gonna need to study. You know, I don't want you to be convinced just because we told you. Study yourself: look at everything the Bible says about the Holy Spirit and being filled with the Holy Spirit. And study what Paul says about the gifts of the spirit in Romans 12, I mean, in 1 Corinthians 12, and you know, see for yourself what it says.
Ginger Stache: Yeah good. Well, as you're walking this out, this is one of the most important things. We've talked all through it and it's so great to hear other people's experiences, because we are so different, to hear how real God is in your life, to hear what the Holy Spirit has in store for you. But that's not enough: you got to start walking into it. And we believe today, in Jesus' name, that as you pray, as you seek God, he promises you in his word that as you seek him, you will find him, when you seek him with your whole heart so, as you're walking it out today, we have more information for you. We have a list of scriptures, different things that you can get at joycemeyer.Org/talkitout. So much helpful stuff. Here's an example: Luke 11:13, "If you then, who are evil", Joyce read this one earlier, but I think it's so good. "Know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him"! Ask today. And I ask for more every day. I know you guys do too. We love you all. Thank you so much for being with us.
Joyce Meyer: Thank you for being with yourself.
Ginger Stache: Thank you for being with you.