Joyce Meyer - Being A Girl Is No Joke
Ginger Stache: Hi, friends. Welcome to Joyce Meyer's Talk It Out Podcast where my friends and I talk about God's word and the real stuff of life and we hold nothing back. I'm Ginger Stache, with Erin Cluley, Jai, and of course, Joyce Meyer. We're all in different stages of life. A young career woman and mom to two sweet kiddos. An accomplished songwriter facing an unexpected new life's journey. A leader, creative, an author with a heart for adventure. And a world-renowned Bible teacher whose personal story has impacted millions. And there's you, because sometimes you just need to talk about life with your girlfriends. So, consider yourself one of us, and let's Talk It Out.
Ginger Stache: Hi, everybody. We are so glad that you are with us because today we are talking out all about what it's like to be a woman, and especially, what it's like to be a woman in the Christian world and how God sees us, and so many great things. So, we have a lot of specific examples, I think, of different ways that we've all had to deal with that in our own lives.
Joyce Meyer: How about a woman in the change of life?
Ginger Stache: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Joyce Meyer: That might help some people.
Erin Cluley: Absolutely.
Ginger Stache: We're not afraid to talk about anything. We are not gonna shy away from it.
Erin Cluley: Tell 'em like it is.
Ginger Stache: So, yeah.
Erin Cluley: Let us know what to expect.
Ginger Stache: Guys, if you've snuck in here and you're gonna listen, we're just warning you, right now. You're welcome. You're welcome. You might need this information.
Erin Cluley: It will help 'em, too.
Ginger Stache: Oh, anyway, so, let's begin by just talking about some of those challenges. 'cause there's so many great things about being a woman, and we wanna talk about that, too. I think that's hugely important. But what are some of the challenges that you guys think of, or have faced, about just living life as a lady?
Joyce Meyer: Well, you know, when I first started teaching, it was tough because there was not very many women doing this. And people just, you know, because of a couple of things Paul said in the Bible, they just took it that women couldn't teach. And Paul did say, "I don't allow a woman to teach". But part of that was their culture. Part of it was the fact that women weren't educated. And I've been told, I don't read Greek, but I've been told that the Greek word that they use there for men is the same Greek word that's translated husband, other places. And so, if you took that literally, "I don't allow women to teach," they couldn't teach Sunday school. They couldn't teach school. I mean, if you're gonna...
Jai Williams: Yeah, it'd have to cover all of it.
Joyce Meyer: Take it just like it is. Plus, you have to interpret the Bible, I say it like this: you have to interpret the Bible by the Bible. So, Paul, obviously, he had women that ran house churches. He had, women traveled with Jesus, ministered to him. Women were the last at the cross. The first at the tomb. I always say a woman was the first one to preach the gospel because Jesus told Mary, "Go, and tell my disciples, 'he is risen'". And then, you go to the Old Testament: you got Deborah, you got Esther, you got Ruth. You've got all, you got women prophetesses, you got, and really, Jesus settled the whole issue whenever he said there's no more male nor female, Jew nor Greek. But people, women, over the years, looking back, I mean, they couldn't vote, they couldn't own property, they couldn't be educated. There was just, women...
Ginger Stache: It's been a long road, hasn't it?
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, it's been a long, long road. And so, when the devil fights that hard to keep somebody down, there's an awfully good reason, because women are very talented. Not necessarily any more talented than men, but our talents are different. Women are very compassionate. They're sensitive. They have a lot of unique gifts, and we just wanna see women step out and be more courageous, and not let just that general idea that's out there, choke the gifts out of them.
Erin Cluley: I have to say, before we even go too far, just a "Thank you," to you because of what you have done and how you've paved the way. Someone like me, I haven't had to work as hard to be able to sit here and talk about Jesus, or some other, in so many ways, because you were bold enough to be who God called you to be, that makes a huge difference for all of us. And so, a huge, "Thank you," to you.
Ginger Stache: For many, many women.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, absolutely!
Jai Williams: I know, I glean from people like you, like you were one of the forefront people that I like, thought of, especially when I started doing more music stuff. And in the area that I was, I wasn't even allowed to listen to hip hop at all, growing up. Like, the church really didn't allow it, but that was like the area like, Christian hip hop ended up being the area that I really did music in. And I was like, "How did that even happen"? But I was one of the first women on that side of things with all of the Christian hip hop guys, like lecrae and trip lee, all those guys. And I was one of the first women to write in that. And I got a lot of pushback. I got a lot of pushback in that genre because, with the guys, with churches, with everyone. Like, I wasn't allowed to tour with them, even though I wrote a lot of the songs. I wasn't allow, like, even when it came down to the, like, splits, and you know, like, the business side of things, like that. Like, when you write a song, you get writer shares, and me, speaking up for myself saying that "I deserve 50% of this song because I wrote half of it," it was just, it was shunned, you know, and I was just silenced a lot. And so, just to see now, like, how that genre has come so far. And I thought of you, a lot. Like, I remember when, "Joyce couldn't do things," you know, "I gotta keep going. I got to get", so, it's a cool, full circle moment for me to even be able to do ministry, like, even with you, because you were one of those people.
Joyce Meyer: I would be invited like, to come and do a women's meeting on a Saturday, but then the pastor would not have me in the pulpit on Sunday.
Erin Cluley: So, it was okay on Saturday.
Joyce Meyer: It was okay on Saturday.
Erin Cluley: But not on Sunday.
Joyce Meyer: But not on Sunday.
Ginger Stache: And for a women's meeting.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, for a woman to speak. And there were times when I would go to a church on a Sunday, and sometimes, men would get up and walk out. Not all of 'em, but, you know, two or three. It was a little bit hard but...
Ginger Stache: Yeah, it would be.
Joyce Meyer: You know, if you ask me now, I don't really have any problems, now. And if there are people that have an attitude, I don't care. And I don't mean that in a smart aleck way. But I've been doing this 45 years, and anybody who would wanna say it's not God would have to be crazy because you could not, God provides for this.
Jai Williams: Yes.
Joyce Meyer: And you could not come up with the kind of finances you need to run a worldwide ministry unless God was behind it.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, absolutely. Well, it wasn't always easy. And you've talked about some of those challenges. So, we're gonna take a look at a quick clip from Joyce talking about some of those challenges, especially back when she was beginning, and how she really did have to press through.
Joyce Meyer: I tell this frequently, but I think it's worth saying again today, when I received the fullness of the Holy Spirit back in the '70s and God called me to preach, being a woman preacher was not a very popular, acceptable thing. I didn't know that, though. I just was trying to follow God. And I just, I mean, I literally, was just, I wasn't living out of my head. I just felt like God called me to do this, so I was just real excited, and "Hey"! Well, I got asked to leave my church. We lost most of our friends, maybe maintained a couple, a lot of our family members. We were like, taboo, you know, at the family gatherings for a long, long time because they didn't understand. I mean, I was doing something out of the box. I had stepped out of the comfortable, little, sameness of what everybody does. And I had to pay a price. And I had to pay it early. And I've had to pay it many, many times since then. It's not fun to be in a position like I am and see somebody put an article in the newspaper about you that you know is not true, and have God tell you, "Don't even bother trying to defend yourself". I mean, when things have been said about us, sometimes people have said, "Well, why don't you just get on television and tell 'em the truth. You speak to the whole world". And God won't let us do that. I mean, now, you know, I might explain something some time if it was something I felt like people needed to know. But there is a price to pay. Oh, but the benefits. Oh, my gosh! Oh, Jesus! I remember when I used to lay down at night and be so miserable, I wished it was time to get up, and when I got up, I was so miserable, I wished it was time to go to bed. Has anybody ever been there? Well, hallelujah! Now, I'm happy, I'm peaceful, I'm joyful! I love my life! I know I'm born-again, baptized in the Holy Ghost on my way to heaven! And I'm doing something with my life that is fruitful! And I had to invest my friends at that time. And I was lonely for a long time, but I got plenty of friends, now. Joshua said, "There's all kinds of Gods that you can serve, but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord". Amen?
Ginger Stache: So, Joyce, you had to keep on day after day, weekend after weekend, doing what you were doing in spite of the people who were saying, "No," that you shouldn't, in spite of the friends that you lost, the challenges, the roadblocks that were in front of you. How did you see God begin to, you know, crumble some of those walls?
Joyce Meyer: Well, you know, persistence pays off. It's just a good statement. And the devil, he's always trying to get you to quit. And he'll use fear as one of his favorite weapons. The fear of losing people out of your life. The fear, even just the fear of being talked about. Fear of people gossiping about you. And, you know, we're talking about being called by God to do something. But there's all kinds of people watching that, maybe they wanna own a business or, you know. It's like, for me, when God calls you to do something, you're either gonna do it or be miserable, one of the two. So, in some ways you have a choice, but you don't really have a choice, if you love God and you wanna be obedient to him. But, you know, we hear stories, all the time, about women in the workplace that are sexually abused, or women in the workplace that aren't paid what a man's paid for doing the same job. Now, I think that's getting a lot better. But like you said, just like women had to fight for the right to vote, they've really fought an uPhill battle. But we see horrible things in other countries. I mean, it's...
Ginger Stache: It's still incredibly difficult.
Joyce Meyer: We've had a major breakthrough here, but we go to countries where girls are killed just because they're girls, and they don't want 'em anymore.
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: What about, you know, like, let's just say you, Erin, like, you know, you have an important job here, but you're not preaching. So, you haven't experienced what I have, but what have you experienced?
Erin Cluley: Yeah, it's interesting 'cause I do, I mean, we work in such a wonderful environment. So, we work with men who are great. Men, who are sitting here with us, they're wonderful. But even still, I've experienced, walking into a meeting where I am one of the only females and some of it, I have to decipher whether it's actually happening or it's in my head. But there is a sense of "I am the smallest one in the room". And I can even feel myself, sometimes, want to cower. And I can know exactly what I need to say. I know I'm walking in with the information that they need, or whatever, but I can feel myself cower back because I am the female. And there's something in my mind that says you are not as smart as they are. And whether they are saying that or not, that there's something that our culture, I think, has told us. So, I have had to work through, like what you're saying, "I know that I'm doing what God has called me to do. Like, I know the answer because I know what I'm doing, say it, speak up". But there is something inside of us, as women, I think you have to rise up.
Joyce Meyer: Part of that is just the thing that the enemy has put...
Erin Cluley: Yep.
Joyce Meyer: On women. And we really wanna encourage women today to throw off that yoke and be bold enough to step out. And yeah, there may be some people that won't like it, but to be honest, the only way that you're gonna have everybody like what you're doing is if you do nothing.
Erin Cluley: Right. And I've had, I've thought about it, too. I think that, I've talked to my husband about this, like, "Do you, men, have these thoughts? Do you even think about any of this stuff when you're in a meeting or whatever"? And he's like, "No, we just, I just do what I'm supposed to do". And I think that, like you're saying, the enemy knows how to attack us. And so, I don't wanna feel rejected as a female. I don't wanna feel less than, or just certain things, maybe it's me, but he knows where I'm weakest. And so, that's how he attacks me. And it feels like it's so different for women than men in how he...
Joyce Meyer: Think women do and, just, it's a general statement, but I think women probably care more about what people think than men do.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, I think so, too.
Joyce Meyer: And, now, Ginger, you've been in all kinds of leadership positions. What have you experienced?
Ginger Stache: I find it very interesting that I didn't know I was a woman for a long time.
Jai Williams: Explain that, please.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, maybe I should say that differently. I've always known I was a female. No, I think...
Joyce Meyer: You didn't know there was a problem with it.
Ginger Stache: Exactly. My parents, I think, really instilled in me, from the time I was so tiny, that I could do anything with God's help. And so, I didn't know that there would be those barriers. And I've certainly seen some of those things. Working in production, it is not especially, you know, 30, 40 years ago, not exactly a great breeding ground for women coming through that, you know, it is primarily men. But I just didn't realize that I was supposed to have some of those thoughts that you're talking about. And so, I didn't really do that.
Erin Cluley: Good for you.
Ginger Stache: Well, you know, sometimes not so good for me, because at the same time, you have to read the room and you have to do what God asks you to do with wisdom and not just be too brash or, you know. Because some of the things that you're talking about, like you said, are what the enemy's putting in our minds. And some things are really happening. I mean, let's be honest. Sometimes, the opinion is just different of a woman saying certain things. The expectations on us are often different. So, I think about like, women who decide that God's leading them to stay home with their kids. And some of the expectations and the way people handle that, sometimes, you know, they say that they're not doing something that's valuable enough and it's just so ludicrous.
Joyce Meyer: Oh, I just can't stand it when people say, "Well, I'm just a stay-at-home mom".
Ginger Stache: Oh, yeah.
Joyce Meyer: I'm here to tell ya somethin', a stay-at-home mom is a courageous woman.
Ginger Stache: And a woman in business and a leader in business, you know, it takes some tenacity, and it takes a lot of prayer. Because I have, you know, certainly not always done it really well. And times, God has helped me to do it well. And so, you know, I'm blessed by what I've been able to be a part of, here, and other places.
Joyce Meyer: Something that we can do, too, and a lot of people don't know how to do this but, is to pray for favor. Like, I'm just sitting here thinking about all the different countries that I've been to and preached to these massive crowds. And I remember one meeting, in particular, in Africa, and even, Christian men, over there, it's acceptable to beat your wife. And I remember, sometimes, I wonder about myself. It's like, you know, "You really got some guts". All over Africa, and many other nations, all over the Middle East, even in parts of India, men beat their wives. And I just wanna lovingly say to you, that is like, the worst thing that a man could ever do. I watched my father beat my mother. And it didn't make me think he was a big man. It made me disrespect him. I thought he was a coward. It made him little in my eyes, not big in my eyes. And I sit here, and I think about, "How did I get by with that"? But if you're doing what God wants you to do, I mean, he can shut other people's mouths and make 'em listen. And you were at that meeting and that was just an awesome meeting. And wasn't it raining, too? Was that the one where it was raining? And I said, you know, "I'll stay here and preach if you'll listen". And...
Ginger Stache: People didn't move.
Joyce Meyer: I encourage women to pray for favor. Pray that God will give you favor and don't imagine a bunch of stuff that is not there. I don't know if there's any men in our meetings that don't like me. I'm assuming if they're there, they do. And we have more and more men coming to our conferences all the time.
Ginger Stache: Oh, yeah.
Joyce Meyer: And I think that, that stigma is beginning to go away here, more so, than in other countries.
Erin Cluley: I found you because of my dad. It wasn't even my mom. I mean, she likes you, too, but it was my dad. And I asked him like, "What is it about joyce"? 'cause he doesn't listen to other female speakers, or pastors. But it's the way you communicate. And I think that just goes to show like God created you, a female, in a way that can still speak to a male because that's his call in your life. He doesn't care about anything else. That's who he made you to be. I think that's so great.
Ginger Stache: I think that's such a huge key, because if God puts something in you to share, it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. And that's why, you know, when I hear about girlboss, or whatever, and not that there's anything wrong with that, in particular, but I think, "No, be the best boss". You know, "Be a great leader," is really what it's about. And of course, there are challenges, and we need to encourage each other. But if God is putting something in you to share, he will make a way for it to happen. So, don't cower down. And you might have to knock open a few doors. It doesn't mean that nothing will go without any problem, but he'll make a way.
Joyce Meyer: Well, God always has forerunners. He always has, you know, Jesus, the firstborn, among many brethren. And there's always somebody that has to go first and knock the doors down. And I'm not the only one who did, but I'm one of the ones who did. And now, there's just all kinds of wonderful, amazing, gifted, talented women that are coming up sharing the word. And for whatever part I did get to play in paving the way for them, I'm thankful that I did that because I've got the kind of personality and the boldness that I will do what I believe God's telling me to do, no matter who likes it.
Erin Cluley: I was just watching a clip of you from when you spoke. You'll have to remember, help me remember where it is. Where you climbed the wall because...
Ginger Stache: Cambodia.
Erin Cluley: Cambodia. So, the clip has you getting out of the van and you're walking up and they hoist you over this wall and there's this massive crowds of people and they're cheering. And I am...
Ginger Stache: What happened was they had closed the venue so that she couldn't preach. They shut the power off.
Joyce Meyer: The people were in.
Ginger Stache: Exactly.
Joyce Meyer: But they turned the power off so I couldn't get in, 'cause it was a power gate.
Erin Cluley: And that was not gonna stop you. So, you climbed the wall and you...
Joyce Meyer: They hoisted me up on a trash can, then on top of the wall. And then, somebody caught me on the other side. And we didn't have any power. So, I preached through a bullhorn.
Erin Cluley: Gosh, that's so great. I sobbed watching it, because what that says is, "I don't care what they say to me or what they try to do to hold me back, I will go and do what God has called me to do and these people need to hear his message of hope".
Joyce Meyer: They actually told me that, that emboldened and encouraged the people there more than if everything would've went right.
Erin Cluley: I'll bet.
Joyce Meyer: Because they saw that...
Jai Williams: Nothing was gonna stop you.
Joyce Meyer: That you don't have to let things stop you, that you can press through and do what God's telling you to do.
Ginger Stache: And what a great encouragement for women, in general, is there may be something that doesn't go as it seems, but God can use it in a greater way because you continue to do what he asks you to do.
Joyce Meyer: And, you know, women in leadership, and I think this is important to say. You know, I'm married, 56 years, to my husband. And when I'm functioning in my gift, on the platform, Dave never tells me what to do or what not to do. But when I come down off that platform, I'm not Joyce Meyer, the teacher, the preacher, I'm Dave Meyer's wife. And so, some women, in leadership, get an attitude. It's like they have a chip on their shoulder and they're gonna now try to tell everybody what to do. And you do have to know what your place is in different roles. You know, like, if I go to somebody else's church to minister, it's their church and I'm not gonna go in there, and just do what I want to. I was at a church, this past weekend, and the first thing I said to the pastor was, "Is there anything you want me to do or don't want me to do"? And so, I think it's important for women to not get a "Rahrr..". Attitude, you know, like, "I'm gonna do whatever I want to". You know, there are places where you need to submit, you need to submit to authority. And especially, if you're married and you're gonna do something like this, you definitely need to honor your husband. And you need to... I mean, God told me, he said, "You are not dave's teacher. You're his wife".
Ginger Stache: I love clarifying this, this whole thing, 'cause it's really important. And it's difficult for women to think about submitting. But it's really not hard, it's still hard.
Erin Cluley: Wait a second. Don't lie.
Ginger Stache: What I was gonna say, it is hard. It's really not as hard when we see it the way God wants us to see it.
Joyce Meyer: It's really about order.
Ginger Stache: Exactly.
Joyce Meyer: It's not about "You're better than me, so you're gonna boss me around". It's like...
Ginger Stache: Right. You're talking about submitting to our husbands because God says there has to be an order of authority in the home. And submitting to authority wherever we are. Because, you know, that's the way things are structured. Otherwise, there's chaos. And I think that gives us a freedom, because then it also says to love each other as Christ loved the church. So, there's balance in all of it. But Erin, you asked a question that I thought was such a good question. You said, "How do we submit to men and still be leaders"?
Erin Cluley: Yeah, how do we do that?
Ginger Stache: Well, I thought that was such an interesting question because...And Joyce, you can help and correct me. I don't think, we, as women, have to submit to men. I think we have to submit to authority. We have to submit to our spouses. But a woman doesn't have to...
Joyce Meyer: No, you don't have to submit to every man out in the world. When you come into, I mean, a leadership meeting, let's just say the four of us were in a meeting. Okay. Obviously, I'm the president, here, of the ministry, so you would need to submit to me if I said something. But you're on equal terms with, most of the meetings you go into, you're on equal terms with everybody else there. And that doesn't, submission doesn't mean you can't have an opinion. It doesn't mean you can't say anything. It just, I mean, I believe me, I say plenty at home. But if it comes right down to it, when push comes to shove and a decision has to be made, and Dave and I don't agree, then I'll back off and let him make it. And of course, if he's wrong, he never says he is because men don't like to be wrong.
Erin Cluley: We did that this week. We needed to get a new vehicle. And I don't like making purchases like that. Like, it's too big. I just, I don't like it. But I also have strong opinions about what we're gonna do if we're gonna make a purchase. And so, mike calls, he has this information to share. He was like, "Should we do it"? And I felt so strongly, the Holy Spirit say, "You don't feel strong enough," like, "I haven't put anything in you strong enough to push back. So, let him make this call because, trust him in this," and was like, "Okay, I trust you. Do what you wanna do". And it worked out, but...
Joyce Meyer: Oh, men love that, when you say, "I trust you. I believe you'll make the right choice".
Erin Cluley: Yeah, I could see that.
Joyce Meyer: I do it sometimes on purpose.
Erin Cluley: Put a twinkle in his eye.
Jai Williams: And you know what? Even when, in dating now, like, I'm dating people that can be comfortable with all of the different things that I do. I think it's important even when, you know, when you're dating. I don't say everything that I do, but it's like I can feel the vibe, if this person is very like, dogmatic or like, you know, "Do this, do that". And I'm like, "Okay, okay". You know, it's not gonna work, you know? Like, but, I mean, 'cause, honestly, most people that I know that are women, females that are in leadership, desire to have someone that can help them disarm when they go home. Like, I don't think most women wanna run everything, you know? I want someone that can take the lead and that I can trust with certain things in the house. Like, especially, now, being single, like, I am tired of doing everything.
Joyce Meyer: I don't wanna be in charge of repairs.
Jai Williams: Yeah, I don't wanna be, I'll be like, "Who's gonna change this light bulb? Oh, it's me".
Erin Cluley: Or "Where we goin' to dinner"?
Jai Williams: Yeah, "I don't care. Just pick", I just want somebody that can come in and help me make some decisions. Like, I look forward to things like submitting again.
Ginger Stache: We all need a break.
Jai Williams: Yeah, I need a break. I lead in almost everything else I do. I wanna be able to just breathe and trust someone.
Joyce Meyer: And, you know, I think, men that can let their wives be who God wants them to be, they are the strongest of men. A man who feels that he has to rule a woman is really a pathetically, weak, little guy. And my husband is...
Ginger Stache: I love the way you said that.
Jai Williams: I laughed!
Ginger Stache: A weak, little guy.
Joyce Meyer: Well, he is. I mean, because it's insecurity, it's fear that, "She's gonna look better than you". And man, we all have to respect Dave because, and he's really not, he's certainly not less than me. People don't realize all the things that Dave did here, in the beginning days, that we would not be here if he weren't here. I mean, he helped design and oversaw the building of this whole building. Dave was the one that initially said we should go on TV and started calling and getting me on TV. He was the one that got me on the radio stations. He used to call around and get the best price on, back then, cassette tapes. And, you know, there was, I mean, he would, we didn't have GPS and he'd lay out all these maps, and map out all the routes for the cities we were gonna drive to. And, you know, he's done plenty. He just hasn't done it from the platform. But i, probably, in all the meetings that I've done, if Dave has missed ten, that would be a lot.
Erin Cluley: That's amazing.
Joyce Meyer: And you know, we've got a chapel tomorrow, and I said, you know, "I'm not gonna say anything you haven't heard 25 times". He said, "Yeah, but it'll be different, you know, and it'll be good. So, I wanna go and hear you".
Ginger Stache: That says a lot.
Joyce Meyer: He's a very strong man. I just wanted to say that. That it takes a strong man to be able to let his wife be who she is.
Ginger Stache: It does. You and I have talked about this a lot, with our husbands, how much we value the man that God has given us. Because if tim wasn't as secure in who he is, it'd be very difficult for a lot of men to be comfortable with me going out and traveling the world, and doing the things that I'm doing. And he also has to be a man of great faith. Because, you know, it's out of his control, quite often. And that's not an easy thing for men, or for any of us. And so, I am just very grateful for the strength of men who support their wives in the way that God wants them to. And we, in turn, need to be the type of woman who will support men in our lives. Whether it's, you know, a spouse, or a husband, or whoever it is. A spouse or a husband. A spouse or a father, is where I was going. But anyway, we just need to support one another. And I think there's something that, maybe, is a stumbling block for many women about God, in general, or about the Bible, that says women aren't as important to God because of, you know, the way that the culture was then, and different things that you can focus on. But there's so much, clearly, in God's word, about his love for women, and the women in the Bible who were strong, and great women of faith. And I think it's important to dig into God's word and see that. See who you are to God and how valuable you are as a woman.
Joyce Meyer: Well, you know, I know, you said one of the things we wanna talk about, and I wanna make sure we get to it before run out of time, is why we have project grl. So, why don't you talk about that, Ginger? Why are we trying to help women all over the world have the freedom that we have now?
Ginger Stache: Yeah, I think one of the things that's so important is, of course, your own personal history. It's a passion for you because of what you've been through and the abuse and the healing that God has brought you.
Joyce Meyer: Right.
Ginger Stache: And women need that all over the world. And as I travel and do this, I think about what I shared earlier, that my parents instilled in me, this value in Christ. And I appreciate that so much. And I have like, a compulsion to go share that with other women everywhere because they are not being told that.
Joyce Meyer: See, my dad told me all the time, "You'll never amount to anything".
Ginger Stache: Exactly. So many are told the opposite. And so, if we can tell them the truth, in spite of what their family may have said, in spite of what culture may be saying to them, that we can do that, we can tell them the truth of Christ. But in order to do that, we also have to be able to meet some of those physical needs. Because women are more impacted by poverty and situations around the world, like unclean water, and human trafficking, far more impacted than other people are.
Joyce Meyer: Lack of education.
Ginger Stache: Exactly. Not even feeling that education is necessary for a woman in many places. But God opens the doors for us to do something about that. And so, together, you know, we are seeing great things happen. And we are seeing young women come up who are amazing, who are pouring out themselves for God, and really seeing a difference in the culture that they are impacting right where they are.
Joyce Meyer: So, we're helping victims of sex trafficking. We're being able to see them freed. And then, we do a lot with women that are trapped in prostitution because they feel that's the only way that they can make a living. And so, we get 'em out of that situation and teach them a trade, so they don't have to go back to that. We're feeding. We're providing clean water wells, because it's usually the girls who have to go collect the water, and they can spend up to a half a day just walking, trying to get it, and get it back. And we're even providing hygiene products for girls when they're in their monthly cycle because they don't have anything like that there. And...
Ginger Stache: And they're missing so much school because of it. And then, their education suffers. They can't keep up and they drop out.
Joyce Meyer: And just educating parents too, that girls are just as valuable as boys, and they're a gift from God. And all I can say is, I bet we make the devil very mad because...
Ginger Stache: Oh, I know it. Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: You know, like the abuse that I started out with, 15 years of sexual abuse, and just the condition that I was in, and now, to see God turn that completely around, and then, us be able to help women all over the world, it's like, "Yay"!
Ginger Stache: Yeah, it is. It's so exciting. And I think about those examples in the Bible that are doing what we're talking about. Those women that inspire us to continue doing what we're doing. You know, there's a woman in the Bible named Deborah. And there's...
Erin Cluley: You love her.
Ginger Stache: I love Deborah. Deborah's such an inspiration to me. And there's not even that much about her. There's just a few verses, but they're incredible verses because she was a judge over the people. People came to her to settle their disputes. And she was a leader. She was a military leader, and she led their people to victory. And so, after it tells you all that, it says, and then, Israel had peace for 40 years because of what God used this woman to do.
Joyce Meyer: See, just that one example.
Ginger Stache: Yes!
Joyce Meyer: I mean, way over here in the Old Testament where it was really bad, you know, and you have this woman that God has anointed to be a judge, which was a very important role, in those days. So, nobody can say that God does not use women.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, and there's one more thing I love about Deborah. There's this whole chapter that is just kind of Deborah's praise to God. It's just a song of praise. So, she's giving all the credit in the right place. It's not about making a statement: "I'm a woman and I can do this". It's аbout: "This is what God's called me to do, and I will give him the glory". But she also, in this song of praise, gives props to another woman who did something amazing. And I love that! It's women supporting women, as well. Because there can be conflict. There can be competition, and we need to all put that down, right now. So, Deborah's another great example of that, of saying, "Hey, don't forget this other amazing woman, over here, and what she did. And let's give God praise for it".
Jai Williams: Yeah. And like, I've been a little quiet, this one, because I was...
Joyce Meyer: I noticed that.
Jai Williams: You did? I was a little reluctant to say this, but I do think it's important. I feel compelled to bring this out. Because when you said, initially, how you didn't know you were a woman, I knew what you were saying. But because my parents did put, my mom is a force. Like, she's 4'11" beautiful, black woman that has just been a leader. That's all I know is for her to be this strong leader. And she instilled that in me. But I remember when I first went to a Christian school. And it was my first time really going to that particular type of Christian school where first time I was ever the minority in that school. And I went in there, and my little, short self just ready to take on this school. Like, "Where is the gospel choir, so I can lead it"? "Where is the student government, so I can lead it"? "Where's", you know, I was just, "I'm a cheerleader, basketball player, soccer player". I did all of it, right? And I remember being the student body president, student government president and a nickname came for me, that was called pounds. And I was definitely just like barely a hundred pounds. I was short. And I'm like, "I never really knew what that meant". And I hadn't really experienced anything like racism or anything. And, you know, but at the end of that school, I finally asked the guys, because I was over a lot of guys as student government president. And most of the guys, I was a black girl over a lot of white guys. And they said that pound stood for lbs, little, black Satan. And I was like, that damaged, that did something to me because...
Ginger Stache: How could it not? Oh my!
Jai Williams: And it made me, and I was like, "Well, I was always nice to you guys". They just didn't like listening to me. They didn't like, and I remember, from that day forward, I kinda shied away, and in some areas, really pushed forward to make sure, "No". Like, you know, I fought for justice. I'm a justice girl. But I think it's important to communicate that us, as moms too, need to talk to our kids, you know, like, and our boys. Like, that damaged, did something to me.
Joyce Meyer: Ew, that makes me mad.
Jai Williams: Like that really did something to me. And it carried, it's taken a lot. And sometimes, that story still can make me feel a certain, because I was really nice to those guys, but I was in a position to make decisions.
Joyce Meyer: That was like one of those fiery darts.
Jai Williams: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: That's just what I thought. You know, the Bible says that "Through faith, we can quench all the fiery darts of the enemy". And that was just like, just tryin' to shut you up and sit you down.
Jai Williams: And that's, and that, from that, I mean, and from that moment, I felt that like, I wonder, because a lot of the areas I am a minority. And I just think when, even at a Christian school would look, you know, look, bad boys, like, forget them. Like, but I love them, still. Like, if y'all watching, you know what you did. But like, I just think we need to, even state-side, a lot of the things we sweep under the rug, and we don't talk about it with our children. 'cause I've had to talk about that with my daughter, just to say like, "Hey, if you ever experience this, just know that it's a fiery dart of the enemy". But I think we need to talk to our boys too, to respect women.
Ginger Stache: That's such a good point.
Jai Williams: Like, here, in America, we need to do that.
Joyce Meyer: That's important, right there.
Jai Williams: Yeah, we can do some things as moms, and aunts, and friends, and sisters, and leaders, to talk to our girls, to assure them, here, in the states, and our boys...
Ginger Stache: Absolutely, we have to.
Jai Williams: On how to respect women, as well, still.
Ginger Stache: And that is part of project grl. I mean, it's not just overseas, in other countries. It's doing it everywhere. And what you were saying, you cannot overlook who you are. You know what I mean? The fact that you're a black woman, it does raise that expectation level to even a new place. And so, you have a lot that you're dealing with there. And what I was talking about, and you know, not knowing, I still faced so many things as being a woman, and just being kind of surprised about it. And, you know, like you were saying...
Jai Williams: I was shocked.
Ginger Stache: You're not expecting something like that. So, yeah, it is a constant struggle that I think, we, as women, need to continue to fight for the next generations. And I love what you said about talking to our boys.
Jai Williams: Yeah, I think it's important to do, you know, to say...
Ginger Stache: What were you going to say, Erin. I cut you off. I'm sorry.
Erin Cluley: That's okay. It was really good. I'm glad that you did. I'm gonna try to remember what I was, oh, because I've been talking to, we talked to Caden about it. And so, I will find myself, like, he'll wanna push his sister 'cause he's a brother, and that's what they do. But he'll touch her, and she'll say, "No, stop". And then, he'll keep bugging her. Like, something wells up with me that, and I have to remind myself, like, "Calm down. He's eight". But you, "If a girl tells you, 'no,' she doesn't wanna be touched, don't touch her. There's a boundary, and you need to protect her as her brother. But also, as a male, your job is to protect this female generation, or this group of females. And you are gonna be taught, in this home, that a woman is to be cherished and loved and valued. And if she says, 'don't touch me,' don't touch her". And I think that's so important.
Jai Williams: I mean, it's evident like, that you're doing a great job with your kids. Like, even Caden, he call, like, it's little things. People don't realize how little things like can reassure a person, even like me, you know. Like, your son calling me, auntie Jai, or hearing my song, it's like, "This little, white baby love me". You know, he doesn't see me, you know. But that does years of healing, as a woman, and as a woman of color it's like, it just, it shows you that there's hope for the future, you know? So, you're doing a great job with that.
Erin Cluley: Oh, thank you.
Jai Williams: So, just know that.
Joyce Meyer: Things are changing and getting better and better and better all the time. And we can't live in the past. We need to live in the future. And I just think it's important for all women, all women to... Let's just shed off this fear, you know, that we're not gonna be accepted, and assume that we are. And have a real positive attitude about it.
Ginger Stache: Well, it definitely is something that I think is great for us to talk about so that women don't feel like, "Am I crazy for feeling this way"? Or, you know, especially, different generations and going through different things and encouraging, inspiring, and lifting other women up, and doing it all for God's glory. So, we want to make sure that you know more about Project GRL, if you would like to help, be involved in that, and just guide, restore, and love women and girls all over the world, telling them about Christ. You can go to ProjectGRL.org to find out more about that. And we do have a book for you, today, which is amazing, if you would like to check this out. This is Joyce's book called, "Healing The Soul of a Woman". Such a great book because it really does talk about who a woman is, and what she needs, and whether there have been things in the past that have changed who she thinks she is, God doesn't change who he is.
Joyce Meyer: It's the prettiest book we have.
Ginger Stache: It is beautiful. So, if you go to: joycemeyer.org/talkitout, you can find out how to get that book. We are very appreciative to all of you for sharing with us today. Thank you all for being with us. Thanks for being one of the girls, and we will see you next time.