Joyce Meyer - The Bible, What's In It For Me?
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Ginger Stache: Hi, friends. Welcome to Joyce Meyer's Talk It Out podcast where my friends and I talk about God's word and the real stuff of life and we hold nothing back. I'm Ginger Stache, with Erin Cluley, Jai, and of course, Joyce Meyer. We're all in different stages of life. A young career woman and mom to two sweet kiddos. An accomplished songwriter facing an unexpected new life's journey. A leader, creative, an author with a heart for adventure. And a world-renowned Bible teacher whose personal story has impacted millions. And there's you, because sometimes you just need to talk about life with your girlfriends. So, consider yourself one of us, and let's Talk It Out.
Ginger Stache: Hi, friends. You are going to be so glad that you're here today, not only because we're talking about something, literally, life-changing, one of the most important things that we can talk about, but also, because Joyce is in a really feisty mood today.
Erin Cluley: She really is.
Joyce Meyer: We've just been having so much fun before we ever started, so we'll see what happens.
Ginger Stache: We were talking about, a social media post that was recently on Joyce Meyer, on Instagram. And Danny, Joyce's son, Dan likes to scare you.
Joyce Meyer: He likes to scare me.
Ginger Stache: He videotapes it every now and then.
Jai Williams: For our enjoyment.
Ginger Stache: But you have a plan.
Joyce Meyer: So, I said the next time he does it, I'm gonna act like I'm having a heart attack and scare the tar out of him.
Erin Cluley: He will end up having a heart attack.
Ginger Stache: That is so funny.
Erin Cluley: Every video he records like that, you're always in the cutest jammies, though.
Jai Williams: I know!
Erin Cluley: It's those cute leopard jammies.
Joyce Meyer: I told him, I said, "I've got my pajamas on, don't put that on Facebook". He said, "Nobody cares".
Jai Williams: No, your pajamas: they're always so cute. I would wear it outside. Throw some heels on. "I have on a Joyce Jammie set".
Ginger Stache: In her jammies still looking better than...
Jai Williams: Looking better than most.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, exactly.
Joyce Meyer: My pajamas do look pretty good.
Jai Williams: Sleepin' like a queen.
Ginger Stache: Well, today, we are going to talk about, in fact, let me just start with some questions. Do you ever feel like reading the Bible is intimidating? You just don't know why, or how to do it. Or you just, maybe you think it's boring. So, we're gonna just knock all that away and help you understand why it's so valuable, and some of the nitty-gritty on the why, the how, the where, the when, all of it, about studying the Bible. So, Joyce, you've talked about this so much. You've talked about the fact that it changed your life. It's changed all of our lives. But it's a hard thing to jump into if either, you have no idea how to do it, or you've tried and have not been successful.
Joyce Meyer: Well, I think it's one of the things that the devil lies to people about. He tells them, "You can't understand it". But the Holy Spirit lives in the believer and he is our teacher. So, we can understand it, we just have to trust him to teach us. And I know a lot of people wanna change. Every one of us sitting here, there's habits that we'd like to see change, and probably most people watching. And in 2 Corinthians 3:17 and 18, it says, "Now the Lord is the spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty".
Jai Williams: Yes.
Joyce Meyer: "And all of us, with unveiled face, [because we] continue to behold [in the Word of God] as in a mirror of the glory of the Lord, are constantly being changed into his very own image". So, you can't change without the Word of God. They said the word is like a mirror. And if you think about it, you could have dirt all over your face, but if you didn't look in the mirror, you wouldn't know it. And so, the word actually shows us what we should be, and we see then what we're not. It's not unto condemnation. But it's really for learning. And then we can go to the Holy Spirit and say, "I want you to change this in me".
Ginger Stache: Yeah, and I love the way that you've described it before as a source of medicine. Like, the word is really a medicine cabinet. So, we're gonna start with that and just hear how Joyce explains that. It may not be exactly the kind of medicine cabinet you thought about, originally.
Joyce Meyer: The Word of God is actually medicine for your soul. Now, you know, you can go to the drugstore, and you can get medicine for your physical body. But you can't go to the drugstore and get medicine for your soul. The Word of God is the only thing that can get inside of your mind and emotions, and heal them. Repeatedly we are told to meditate on God's word day and night. Proverbs 4 verses 20-22 says, "My son, attend to my words: incline your ear to my sayings. Let them not depart from your eyes: keep them in the midst of your heart", now, listen to this, "For they are life to those who find them, and health to all their flesh". Well, you know, the Hebrew word for health in verse 22, is actually medicine. God's word is medicine to all of our flesh. And Isaac Leeser's translation of Exodus 15:26 reads, "I am the Lord your physician. The medicine he prescribes is his word". I absolutely love that. You see, you have to understand that when you read the Word of God, it's not like just reading a magazine, or even reading a book that somebody has written. It's different because the Word of God is full of God's power. And I believe that when I'm teaching the word, that whatever I'm teaching on, actually, there's power in that to deliver people in that area, or to set them free. For example, if I was teaching on anger, I think there's power in that to help people who have an anger issue, be healed from that. Psalm 107:20 says, "He sends forth his word and heals them and rescues them from the pit and from destruction". And you know, for many, many, many years I have clung to that scripture, and believed that when I am teaching the word, that people are healed in their mind, in their emotions, in their physical body, every area where they need healing. There's no place that you hurt, that God can't reach and heal you. It goes on to say, "Oh, that men would praise [and confess to] the Lord for his goodness and loving-kindness and his wonderful works to the children of men! And let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving and rehearse his deeds with shouts of joy and singing"! I'll tell you studying the Word of God, will add joy to our life.
Ginger Stache: That is so basic, it's so simplistic, and it's so true and important, that there is healing for everything that we need in the Word of God, and that it will add joy to our life. But if we don't touch it, if we don't open it, if we don't take that medicine, then we don't get what we need. So, that's really what we wanna help encourage everybody with.
Joyce Meyer: It's very basic. You can see so plainly. Like, people wanna know how to study the Bible.
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: Well, for me, in the beginning, when I started, I studied in areas that I was having problems with. You know, like, anger was one of my problems. And so, I looked up every scripture I could find on anger, and I studied them. And, you know, the Bible says that the Word of God renews our mind. And so, when you begin to think different, then you begin to act different. And so, I always use the example that if I've got a headache, I'm not gonna put a band-aid on my head. I'm gonna take an aspirin.
Jai Williams: Mm-hmm.
Joyce Meyer: And if I cut my finger, I'm not gonna stick an aspirin in it. I'll put a band-aid on it. So, we know how to minister to our natural body, but you can minister to your spirit the same way by studying what you need. It's not just a matter of, "Oh, I'm gonna read a chapter today, and I've fulfilled my obligation". It's really a book to help you in every area of your life.
Erin Cluley: I love what you're saying. Just a couple of days ago, I've, like, lived this out. And so, you know, verses about the, our words that we speak and how important that is, and all of that. And so, I've had a couple of days where I haven't done the best job of that. And so, as I'm thinking through it, verses are coming back to my mind like, "Let the words of your mouth and the meditations of your heart be pleasing to God". I did not do that well. "So, God forgive me". I needed to go ask for forgiveness from somebody else. And for those things to stir up inside of me, when I'm having a real-life situation, it's not just a bunch of like, "These," and "Thous". This was like real-life application that I messed up and God had the answer in his word of how to go about it.
Jai Williams: The Word of God is our medicine cabinet, you know. And Satan really tries to trick us when we're in those moments of feeling low, defeated, whatever's going on with our soul that we feel is unfixable, it's easy to isolate and not want to get up and go to the medicine cabinet, which is the Word of God, to feast off of it. Because I know when I go through really tough times, the last thing I wanna do a study. Like...
Erin Cluley: You'd rather sit and suffer.
Jai Williams: I'd rather just, you know, a pity party, you know. Like, I just, I don't really wanna sit and study. But, like, the older I get, the less the Bible has become a memory verse to learn, you know, just a scripture, scripture, scripture, which those are good. Because now, fast forward, I'm able to glean off of those. When I can't pick up the Bible, I can feast off of the things that are naturally in my mind. They just come up: those scriptures come up. But now, I look less of like doing something to check a list off, and more like, now, I go to the word for an answer, an antidote. I want to feel better, be better, do better, you know, so.
Ginger Stache: One of the things that I always pray is that as I take in the Word of God, that the Word of God pours out of me. You know, it has to be more than just words on a page. It has to become a part of who I am. And then, have that ready when I need it, like you just said. So that those things come to my mind when I need to think differently, or change my words, or encourage someone else that it pours out of me to other people. But if you don't know what medicine to take, or if you don't think you have the prescription, you know, you have to start somewhere. So, we wanna answer like, all of those questions: who, what, when, where, how, and why, today. So, Joyce, let me just put you on a shelf for a minute.
Joyce Meyer: Oh, okay.
Ginger Stache: Only because everybody knows the teacher, the preacher, you've got this, you study the word and it's changed your life. And it's easy for people to say, "But that's for Joyce, and she's here". But that's not how it works, you know? It's the same for all of us. So, I wanna ask you guys, and then we'll let Joyce tell us how to really make it work.
Jai Williams: How to really do it.
Ginger Stache: Ask you guys, how were some of those ways, over the years, that you have seen the Bible come to life for you?
Erin Cluley: I've had to, in the past couple of years, ask for it, too. Because even growing up in the church and being raised with the Bible, it wasn't exciting to me, and I thought it was boring. And so, even as an adult that would creep in and I'd go through seasons of, "I love it, this is great. I'm getting so much," "Ah, fine for now". And so, I asked God, one day. Which, you know, if you ask him, he actually might answer you. "Can you please give me like, a hunger to want to read your word and like, show me something in here".
Ginger Stache: Yeah, that's great.
Erin Cluley: And I cannot tell you, that changed everything. And I don't just say that. Literally, I read the Bible that day, and like, things were coming alive. And I was seeing things that I've read before in a whole new light. Like, details were sticking out to me. And I would say, "I didn't know that's what that meant". And since then, like, I want to study, I don't always do it right. But I think that's a big step is you have to ask for him to meet you there, and God will.
Jai Williams: Yeah, I think a big part of it is that hunger, desiring the hunger, because I used to want, like, I've said this before, like in my Bible, I wanted the highlighters with all the different colors, like different, it just, it was very pharisee of me, you know, to like, wanna look like "I have been reading my scripture," you know.
Ginger Stache: Look at all the colors, this is evidence.
Jai Williams: Yeah. I'd open, "Look at how colorful it is," like, you know, it was like a badge of honor back then. It was, and when you ask for the hunger, when I went through these past few years of really going through some tough stuff, I could care less about how colorful my Bible was. I needed it to come alive in me. I needed it to rescue me. I needed it to heal me. I actually needed it to save my life, and to, like, snatch my mind out of this spiral that I was going down. So, it's come alive in a different way where I was like, I have to look at even the Bible a different way. And I pivoted, and I even brought this here because like, I literally started writing scripture and coloring, you know, like, it had to look different, feel different. Even though I felt dark and gloomy, I used colorful things to write what I took from it, to take notes in it. Like, the Bible had to come off the pages for me. And sometimes, like, even writing it down for me was different. I used apps. It just has come alive.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, that's really practical. That's good.
Jai Williams: The practical way to make it go with me where I needed to go. I've talked about the fact that when I didn't have, I couldn't physically feel like I, well, spiritually, I didn't feel like I could stand on his word. I would put scriptures in my shoes. That I'm like, "I don't hardly believe any of this right now, but I'm just gonna stick it in my shoes and literally stand on it," you know? Like, I just had to make it come alive to me because I needed it to save my life, you know.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, I just totally agree with that. I think there's something so beautiful when you're in such a dark place, God will meet you there in his word, and he will show up. And it's not just words on a page, like, it becomes your breath and it's your lifeline. "And I have nothing else but the words you're promising on this page. And I don't believe it, but you promised, this is what you...You love me, you're for me. So, I stand on this today". So, it becomes, it isn't words, it's breath.
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Jai Williams: It's oxygen. It's what I needed to breathe.
Ginger Stache: Well, for you, Joyce, what people often forget, they see you now, sharing the word with boldness and knowledge. But you were once a young girl with a whole lot of hurts and a young woman going through really hard times. So, you had to do the same thing. You had to discover how all this works for you.
Joyce Meyer: Well, I did some really desperate things. You were talking about cutting scripture out and putting it in your shoes and walking on it. I'll tell you a couple of things I did. Jeremiah said, "I found your words and I did eat them".
Jai Williams: You ate it?
Ginger Stache: Did you? Did you make cookies? What did you do?!
Jai Williams: You ate paper?!
Ginger Stache: Paper?
Jai Williams: Oh, I need to know! Alphabet soup?
Joyce Meyer: No. Matthew 11 says, "Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy-laden and I will ease, relieve, and refresh your souls. Take my yoke on you and learn of me. For I am humble, gentle, meek, and lowly". And I tell you, I wanted to be humble and gentle and meek and lowly so bad, I cut it out of my Bible, and ate it.
Ginger Stache: Wow. That is determination.
Jai Williams: Desperate.
Joyce Meyer: You know what? It sounds ridiculous, but God sees that. And he saw how desperate I was to do it. And another thing I did, was the Bible talks about dying to self...
Ginger Stache: You got some fiber in your diet. I'm sorry, go ahead.
Joyce Meyer: The Bible talks about dying to self, and about burying the old man. And so, I actually went to a graveyard, one day.
Ginger Stache: What did you do?
Joyce Meyer: And I just stood there. I said, "All right, I'm considering myself dead to sin, I bury myself..."
Ginger Stache: That is awesome.
Joyce Meyer: "And I am expecting you to resurrect me as a new person".
Jai Williams: But the Bible talks about that. Like, the foolish things, he'll take the foolish things to confound the wise. And sometimes, like, when you get to a place where you really get that hunger, like standing on his word, eating it...
Joyce Meyer: I don't think I've ever told anybody that.
Ginger Stache: I have not heard these stories. This is awesome.
Jai Williams: It's amazing. Like, and it show, like, it gives so much hope for someone like me that's like, I'm a very literal person and I've tried to do the super spiritual, "Like God, just Holy Spirit," you know? "No, I just need to stand on it. If I've gotta eat it, fine," like, whatever. But I do believe God meets us where we are. And to see how far you've come from that.
Joyce Meyer: Now, that doesn't mean everybody needs to cut their Bible up and eat it.
Jai Williams: I'm not gonna eat it. I'm on a low carb diet.
Joyce Meyer: And not everybody needs to go to the graveyard. But, you know, it was...
Erin Cluley: You were desperate.
Joyce Meyer: For me, it was...
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: A physical example of how bad I wanted to be, what God wanted me to be.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, absolutely.
Joyce Meyer: And I wanna make a suggestion that really helped me. I think we read the Bible way too fast.
Jai Williams: Mm-hmm.
Joyce Meyer: And I remember reading a book, and it was suggested in it that you take a scripture and you read it very slowly and think about each word and what you get out of it. And I, literally, felt God's power coming off that page and ministering to me. Because we're not just trying to read the Bible to say, "Oh, I got so many chapters in today. Isn't God proud of me"? We don't read the Bible for God. He already knows it. Wit's for us that we read it. And I think everybody has, I know I had that wrong inception, you know, like, "I had to read the Bible every day because I didn't want God to be mad at me". And then, one day, you know, the Lord just spoke to me, you're not doing this for me. You need to do it for yourself".
Erin Cluley: There's a lot of freedom in that. Like, this morning, for example, just getting people out the door and stuff, I had time for a scripture. One verse was all I got to, this morning. And I thought, "Maybe it's not even worth it". Like, is it worth even the time to do this? I thought, "No, that one verse is probably power-packed with something". So, I wrote it down. And it was just like that. I took the words one at a time. I thought, "Wow, this is so good. Like I'm going to", it was all about peace. "I'm going to stand in that peace, today". So, I've actually thought about it today, because I didn't try to cram all this stuff in 5 minutes. I took one thing, and now, that one thing I can think about today. That's great.
Joyce Meyer: Psalm 119:11 says, "I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you". So, when you hide his word in your heart, it actually keeps you from sin, because the Holy Spirit, it says he'll bring things to our remembrance when we need them. So, if you put it in there, when you need it, the Holy Spirit will prompt you to bring it out.
Ginger Stache: It's so great too, the way God takes what you need, and what you need, and what you need, all of us, so individually to bring the word to life in us. Because it's living. Like you said, it's breath to us. It's not just words on a page that, you know, it's not going to impact some people. Like, some people love a certain book and other people don't so much. This book is different. This book has something for everyone, and we all need to take it in, our own way. And God knows what that is, and helps us through, his Holy Spirit walks us through so much. One of the things that I did really early in, is separate the idea of reading the Bible from who God is. Like, I remember when I was, I don't know, in high school or something, just reading every scripture I could about how Jesus was rejected because I felt rejected at that time. And it taught me that he felt that too. And that was huge for me. And how he dealt with it. And then, who God said I was, that I was not rejected, that I was his child. So, it became who Jesus was to me. It didn't become just the Bible didn't become just words on a page. So, from there, when I needed God, when I needed more of, of Jesus in my life, that's where I found him. That's where we connected. So, you know, being able to kind of separate that "This is what I have to do".
Joyce Meyer: That's good. That's really good.
Ginger Stache: It's, "This is how I find who God is for me, right now".
Jai Williams: Yeah, and it's important to not look at the Bible as a just a history book. Like you just said, like, in Hebrews 4 and 12, it talks about that the Bible is alive and active right now. And that's something that had to help me because when I was going through divorce, I didn't wanna hear about Joseph, or job, or any of those old stories, I was like, "I don't wanna hear about"...
Joyce Meyer: You didn't wanna hear about job? I would think that would really cheer you up.
Jai Williams: I was like, "Oh, job, I hate that for you," like...
Erin Cluley: "It's a bad day job".
Jai Williams: "It's a bad day for you, job. Me too, job". But I don't like your story". You know, because my big thing was just like, you know, because job was rewarded with everything, you know, double for his trouble.
Joyce Meyer: If you're gonna read job, read the last chapter.
Jai Williams: Exactly. Yeah, that's when it gets really good. But I was just like, "Well, what about the first part"? Like, you know, like for me, because I was just in it, I'm like, "I don't wanna", just be like, "Well, God's gonna give me double". I liked what I had, at the moment, you know. Now, I'm in a place now, where that, you know, like that, that story means a lot more to me now, because I am past the hurt of and the acceptance of that part of my life is now over. You know, I can move forward now, and pray for better. But like, in that season, I was like, I didn't want to do that. "I don't want to hear about those old stories". But then, God kept reminding me, "No, this book is alive and it's active, right now".
Ginger Stache: Especially, when you're stuck in the "Why" questions. Sometimes, you gotta forget the "Whys" and get to the good stuff. Get to what God does to redeem the "Whys".
Jai Williams: You gotta know what to read at the time. And that's the thing that I think Erin said this before, just about like, you can even Google like scriptures on healing, scriptures on joy. And so, that's what I had to like, start doing, was like, finding scriptures that can help me be better and have a better mindset, and restore my faith, and restore my hope, versus all the things that were...
Joyce Meyer: And so, you were taking the right medicine for the right ailment?
Jai Williams: Yeah.
Ginger Stache: Exactly, exactly.
Joyce Meyer: One of the first scriptures, 45 years ago, that God caused to come alive for me was John 8:31 and 32: "If you continue in my word", and continue is the important thing.
Ginger Stache: Don't give up.
Joyce Meyer: "Then are you my disciples indeed. And you will know the truth. And the truth will make you free". That was one of the first scriptures that I learned. And, of course, the implied point there is that the word will make you free if you do it. You know, it's not just reading it, that's gonna make you do it. But the Word of God does have the power in it to set you free from anger, from self-pity, from unforgiveness, from sickness and disease. There's power in the word. And that's the thing that people have to understand. It's not just like any word. There's power inherent in the word. And like, meditating on the word is like chewing your food. They tell you, if you don't chew your food properly, you miss the nutrition in it. If you just, the more you chew it, the more you get the nutrition out of it. And so, meditating on the word is like chewing the word. The more you meditate on it, the more you get out of it. And so, like, when you're reading some of these stories in the Bible, put yourself in that story. You know, think about how did Joseph feel? You know, how did job feel? What was it like for Jonah in that whale's belly? You know.
Ginger Stache: What a crazy thought.
Jai Williams: What did it smell like? Nah!
Ginger Stache: Let's get real.
Jai Williams: Ew!
Joyce Meyer: I mean, that had...
Jai Williams: Ew-we, Lord!
Joyce Meyer: No wonder he repented.
Jai Williams: Yes!
Joyce Meyer: The Word of God is just really amazing. And if people don't just look at it like this old, dead book that, you know, is centuries old, "It doesn't relate to me anymore". Hebrews 4 says, "We have a high priest who understands". And I love that. Because I always felt a little bit like the odd duck out because I wasn't like every other woman because of this call on my life. I didn't really wanna do a lot of what other women wanted to do. I mean, I wanted to stay home and study, and seek God. And so, I felt misunderstood a lot. And that really helped me to know that Jesus understands us. And every one of us, I think everybody feels kinda weird in their own way. But Jesus understands each and every one of us because he's been tempted in all points, just like we have, yet he never sinned. Therefore, we can come boldly to the throne and ask for the help that we need in plenty of time to get it.
Erin Cluley: Can I ask a question?
Joyce Meyer: I think I'm on a shelf and I got off.
Ginger Stache: Oh, no, no, no. We did not want to leave you on that shelf for long. Just for that one minute.
Erin Cluley: I would like you to answer my question, so don't get on the shelf again. To people who say that, like to your point, "The Bible is a book of history," or "The Bible was relevant then, it's not anymore". Or, you know, "Those are the rules then, they're different now, so it doesn't apply". What do you say to that kind of approach to the Bible?
Joyce Meyer: Well, here's the thing for me. I've tried it for 45 years and it works.
Erin Cluley: So, you got proof, you got evidence, yeah.
Joyce Meyer: I mean, it's basically just that simple, you know. If you wonder if it works, just try forgiving your enemies and see what it does for you. You know, try giving into the Kingdom of God to help support the financing of the gospel and see how God blesses your finances. And God even says, about tithing and giving, "Try me". "See if I won't open the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing". It's not, yeah, some of the culture has changed, but God never changes. He's the same yesterday, today, and forever. And the word does not get old and worn out. It works. I mean, it just works. That's all there is to it.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, so, are there specifics to help people with, we've talked a lot about, I guess, about the "Why" study the Bible. How about some of the practical's of the "How" and even the "Where". I mean, are there specifics that help with all of you for this to work better?
Joyce Meyer: Well, when people wanna be comforted, they normally go to the Psalms. The thing I love about the Psalms is David was so honest with God about how he felt. And so that's good to know. You don't have to try to hide how you feel from God. And so, if somebody's watching and they're just starting out, and they're just a royal mess, like I was, in the beginning, God already knows everything about you, so go ahead and talk to him about it, because it gets it out of you. Okay, I really basically studied based on what was going on in my life. I studied my problems. When I didn't have a clue how to be submissive to my husband. I mean, I studied those scriptures, and they were so hard for me.
Ginger Stache: Still a little challenging sometimes.
Joyce Meyer: Oh, my gosh, I was like, "You have got to be kidding. I'm to adore my husband".
Jai Williams: It's like, she said, she rolled her eyes, she said, "Adooore".
Joyce Meyer: "Submiiiit".
Erin Cluley: Ew.
Ginger Stache: Joyce and I were just doing a little experiment, this week, because we have a similar thing that Joyce has talked about, that our husbands like to help us.
Joyce Meyer: Yes.
Ginger Stache: And often times, that help doesn't seem necessary to us.
Joyce Meyer: Yes.
Ginger Stache: Is that a fair way to say it?
Joyce Meyer: Yes, a lot of times I don't want help.
Ginger Stache: There it is.
Joyce Meyer: Especially not the kind I'm getting. You can help me with the dishes. You can take the trash out, but you don't need to tell me how to get out of the bathtub.
Joyce Meyer: I've been doing that for a long time. You don't need to tell me how to use the knife. You know, my husband loves to tell me things that I think, "What do you think I do when you're not here"? And I used to think that he did it because he thought I was stupid, but I found out he really is just trying to help me.
Ginger Stache: Right.
Joyce Meyer: You go through the same thing with Tim.
Ginger Stache: I do. So much of the same thing. I walk every morning. Tim walks with me quite often. There is one hole in our neighborhood. Every single time, Tim says, "Watch the hole". I'm like, "I know, I do it every day. And you're not always here". You know, it's like you said, "How do I survive without you, to tell me these things"? So, Joyce had a great idea of how to do this differently.
Joyce Meyer: So, I just said, in my conference last weekend, and Ginger jumped onboard, and I said, "From now on, I am going to just say, 'thank you.'" and I've done it.
Erin Cluley: It's so painful to me.
Joyce Meyer: I've done it for two days.
Jai Williams: How you doin'?
Joyce Meyer: Good. I'm doing good.
Erin Cluley: Did you mean it when you said it, or do you just need to get the words out first?
Joyce Meyer: Well, do you have to go there?
Ginger Stache: That's an unnecessary question.
Jai Williams: It's an experiment. Baby steps, here.
Joyce Meyer: Let's just start with doing it. Then, I'll go to meaning it.
Erin Cluley: That's fair, that's fair.
Ginger Stache: So, yeah, after this, we're on our walk. Tim says, "Watch the hole". And I swallowed really hard. And I just said, "Thank you".
Joyce Meyer: I'm so proud of you.
Ginger Stache: Probably, just like that. And he looked at me a little confused. And then, you know, he goes, "You're welcome," and we went on.
Joyce Meyer: Would you like to join us, Erin?
Erin Cluley: I mean really nervous to commit to it because you're gonna ask me.
Jai Williams: Do it, do it!
Erin Cluley: I mean, it'll all be tested tonight, so, yeah.
Joyce Meyer: That's how you, you just jump in, see.
Jai Williams: And the crazy thing, that kind of, the whole soft answer, turning away wrath, like, it applies to every relationship because y'all know I ain't married, right now.
Ginger Stache: That's true.
Jai Williams: But guess what? I kinda did the same thing with my ex-husband. What?! I didn't say, "Thank you," though.
Ginger Stache: A soft answer?
Jai Williams: It was a soft answer, though.
Ginger Stache: Well, good for you.
Jai Williams: Thank you.
Ginger Stache: Yes, I'm proud of you.
Jai Williams: I meant that one. But no, seriously, he had said, we were co-parenting, doing some things, you know, with my daughter. And it was just something that he had said something that was like... Everything... Everything in me wanted to, like, snap back. I was like, "You know what? You're right".
Erin Cluley: Oh!
Jai Williams: Oh...
Joyce Meyer: Oh, that's another good one, "You're right".
Ginger Stache: Those are hard words.
Joyce Meyer: My husband loves, "You're right".
Erin Cluley: I'll start with, "Thank you".
Jai Williams: Here's the thing, it pivoted the entire conversation. He says, "Uh, uh, uhm, ok". He didn't have anything to say. I cut him off. I cut him and killed him with kindness!
Joyce Meyer: That's better than getting a gift today, "You're right". "You're right".
Jai Williams: I said, "You're right". "Uh, excuse me"? It works.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, it is so true, though. It's like we can read all of these things, but unless we put them into action, then they're not really gonna do anything for us. And this is one of those things where it's just like a daily application of trying to do your best with the things that just go against everything inside of you, in your flesh, that wants to say, "I know what I'm doing," you know. But it's one of the things that God gives us because he knows it will be better for us. And...
Jai Williams: Yeah, his word is so good. And like, one of the ways that I do it is in the morning time, actually at nighttime, if I know I've had a rough day with certain things, I try to find a scripture that I can read that can help ease my mind before I go to bed. You know, like to read something, but then I'll keep that scripture on my phone too. So, then, when I wake up, just so the devil will know, not today. That was yesterday's problem. So, I look at that, you know. Another practical thing, I talk about the apps that I use that I have a list of scriptures that are kind of like, I'm a nerd to an extent. Like, I like to subject matter them. And like, you say, Joyce, like, I highlight the things that are big on my list, which is anger, my attitude, fear, rejection, all those things. And I have them all categorized. So, if I need it quickly, then, because sometimes, I couldn't, going through this season, I couldn't just sit and open my Bible and like, that was something I used to do so religiously. And like I said, almost hypocritically. I don't know. It was just for show, like, how I used to do it. It just has had to pivot over these past, for it to actually sink in. And then, when I go on a walk, I'll just put on my earbuds and I'll let the Bible app play in my ears too, you know.
Ginger Stache: Oh, that's good.
Joyce Meyer: I was just thinking about that Bible app and, you know, there's probably a lot of people that don't know about that. But it is a wonderful tool. And it's got Bible studies on it for you. I mean, I've got studies on there. There's all kinds of people that have studies on there, and there's a scripture for the day. And you can read a whole chapter if you want. And so, you know, that might be a good place for some people to start because it just makes it so, so easy for you.
Ginger Stache: It does. And let's get real. Like, you know, you can study the Bible for years and get a lot out of it. But we'll go through a season where it feels maybe dry, or you have a hard time making it happen. 'Cause I don't want it to sound like we're all perfect in this.
Jai Williams: And no, I'm not at all.
Joyce Meyer: I don't think we're making ourselves sound perfect.
Ginger Stache: Well, people assume things that, you know.
Erin Cluley: We're not perfect.
Ginger Stache: No, not at all.
Erin Cluley: Far from it.
Joyce Meyer: I buried myself and ate paper.
Jai Williams: And rolled your eyes when you said, "Adooore".
Ginger Stache: Yeah, but the one of the things that I've found during those hard times when, you know, it just wasn't happening the way that I wanted it to, was to change something up. Don't be afraid, like you said, to try the app, to try a new version of the Bible.
Joyce Meyer: Something else, something different.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, and even for me, it's even location. Like, maybe, I can go outside where I can kind of see nature. That really helps me connect with God or, you know, sit in a different place in the house. Just something that will change it up for you a little bit can make a big difference to kind of spark a new desire.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, for sure.
Joyce Meyer: Or, even, have one friend that you both read the same thing and then get on the phone and just talk about it.
Ginger Stache: That's a great idea.
Joyce Meyer: Just, maybe, you can't go to a Bible study, or you can't go somewhere and be with a group of people or you don't know enough people. Well, surely, you know one person. So, if you know one other person who wants to learn the word, I mean, I know a lot of people who've told me they do that. I wanna read this scripture. 2 Timothy 2:15, it says, "Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God, approved, tested by trial, a workman that has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing rightly the word of truth". So, he says, "Study and be eager to know it and to understand it, where you're not taking it out of context". You know, it's important to...
Ginger Stache: It's so easy to do.
Joyce Meyer: It's important to not study the Bible for one month and think you know everything and start, you know, giving everybody Bible lessons.
Jai Williams: That scripture, we used to say that, of course, back in the day, I used to always learn all my scriptures in King James, you know. That was like, "Study to show thyself approved, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed," you know, it's like, ahh... But now, I think, the older I get, I think that was why it makes it so tough for somebody like me that's been in church all my life, cuz now, they mean different. Like, back in the day, it was like, "Study to show thyself approved". That's why I liked all the highlighters. But then, you got to that little last part about the trial part, and I'm like, "Oh, I don't want the trial part". Like, the scripture sounded so cool before that, but then it's like...
Ginger Stache: Then it took a turn.
Jai Williams: Then it took a nasty turn, with the trial part.
Joyce Meyer: But you know what that part is for, and nobody likes it. But it makes you apply the word then.
Jai Williams: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: And actually, by applying it, you find out that it works.
Jai Williams: Yes.
Joyce Meyer: And so, it gives you experience which then gives you trust.
Jai Williams: Yes.
Joyce Meyer: And so, that's all part of it.
Jai Williams: It's all part of it.
Joyce Meyer: You know, just to study it and say, you know it. Well, you don't know if you know it or not until you have to try it.
Jai Williams: Till you have to use it.
Joyce Meyer: Until you have to use it.
Jai Williams: Oh, man! And there's the point, right there.
Joyce Meyer: Like patience, for example. Everybody groans when they hear the word. And actually, the Greek says that it's a Fruit of the Spirit that is only developed under trial.
Jai Williams: Wow.
Erin Cluley: That's true.
Joyce Meyer: You can't get it any other way. That's why people don't like to pray for patience because they know they're gonna get trouble.
Erin Cluley: That's not that much fun. One thing that I like to do, and you talk about like, mixing it up, I was, this is, I have like, ten of these. Reminds me of your journals, Joyce, that you won't share. I brought this one to work today, and I thought if anybody finds this, I will have to hunt them down, because, like, I pour my heart into them. So, I was flipping through it, and like, there's probably tears on these pages. But this is things that I've been through and all of the things in here are connected to scriptures that I found on the things that I was walking through. And so, all of these different areas, I've done different things with them. So, like, in some places in here, it's writing a prayer, and there's just a verse that connects to the thing I was going through. This day, my family had a stomach bug, so that was a bad day. That was not a fun day. And there's a verse. But then, in other places, I'll pick like, a chapter or a book and then just write down like points that I'm getting from those verses. So, like, key takeaways that are in my own words, like a summarization of what I've just read. And so, going through here and seeing all these different things that I've walked through and seeing the verses around them, like, the Bible has walked me through so much. And it was so beautiful to look back and see his word is active in different ways that I use it. It's just...
Joyce Meyer: Sometimes, I get out my journals and I just go back. And read different ones, and remember, wow.
Ginger Stache: Such a faithful builder.
Erin Cluley: 'cause I saw on here, I saw the verse I was clinging to on that day, that I thought I might not make it. And then, look at that, two years later, I did it! That thing worked!
Joyce Meyer: You made it, yeah.
Jai Williams: Yeah, it's a good. It's good to look back. It's like gathering the stones, like the children of Israel when they were walking across. That's what I used to call it. Like, as you walk across your dry land through your trial, you're gathering the stones so you can go back and like, use those stones to build an alter to give God praise for what he's brought you through.
Ginger Stache: A monument to not forget.
Jai Williams: A monument to never forget. And so, that's why I look at like, this book. I was gathering stones when I had the strength to gather them, and I had built an altar to give thanks. And then, by the time I was weak, after that long trek of divorce and life and all the things, I didn't have the strength to, like, write anymore. But I was able to look back at what I had written and say, like, "God, you have brought me through this. I don't have the strength to write, right now". So, I just don't want everybody to think that "I'm supposed to write the whole time". There have been seasons where I couldn't write a thing.
Joyce Meyer: Well, and some people do not like to journal.
Jai Williams: I don't a lot of times. I really don't.
Joyce Meyer: And that's okay. If you don't like it, you don't have to do it.
Jai Williams: Yeah, I really don't. And sometimes did things with my voice memo in my phone, because like, just talking to God, like, recording it. Like, cuz I couldn't write, and put it in music. You know, I just do whatever I could do cuz I couldn't write anymore. I was just like, ugh, I couldn't do it. But looking back, and like, some days I just colored like, some days, I just drew and colored. You know, and played worship music while I colored, you know, so.
Joyce Meyer: I've thought about getting a coloring book.
Jai Williams: Yeah, they have them. They have, I got some too, like, that have like, scriptures in 'em, you could just color. They have 'em like, on Amazon.
Erin Cluley: That's fun.
Jai Williams: Yeah, I just colored. And that's a lot, like, my daughter does that to this day. Like, I got that before she went to school. I got her a couple of books that dealt with like, they had scriptures in it, but also like, mental health things and affirmations, you know, and some, and a bunch of coloring pencils and so she colors a lot.
Joyce Meyer: So, Ginger, you're wanting us to be sure that we tell people how they can get started. And I think if they're listening, there's no rules.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, that's really good.
Joyce Meyer: You know, you find what works for you. And we've given 'em several ideas, if they wanna take an idea. But if you come up with something that's totally different than what we've said, the whole thing is, is however you learn, you know, that's the way you should learn. Like, some people do not like to read at all. They don't even have good comprehension when they read. So, you might need to listen, to the Bible, on tape. You know, there's always a different way. I mean, I know somebody who just said, "I don't care how slow I read, I just don't comprehend it". And the person is very smart, but they're more of a hands-on person. And so, listening is better than reading for them.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, and I think that sets a lot of people free. You know, take off the boundaries of the way you think you should be doing this. Try different things until you find something that works for you.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, the Bible is not a bunch of rules, and the way you do the Bible is not a bunch of rules. It's...
Joyce Meyer: But let's just say too, since we're at the beginning of the year, I'd really like to see everybody make some kind of commitment. If all you think you can handle is 10 minutes in the morning, you know, start where you feel like you can. And if you're wanting something a little more specific, we've got a program called the 30/30 challenge. You can call and ask for that. It's studying, making a commitment to study the word for 30 days, every day, for 30 minutes.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, you can find it online. And it walks you through it so beautifully. It's really easy to sign up for it.
Joyce Meyer: We've had people tell us that's changed their life. Even people that have been walking with God for years and years.
Erin Cluley: I'm one of 'em. It's changed my life, and I know Jesus, but that, to commit to time with him every day, it will change your life.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, there was one thing that keeps coming to my heart. You know, if you know a scripture by heart, when I'm in trouble, like, say, I'm having a hard time forgiving somebody. I know the scriptures by memory on forgiveness in the Bible. But I find that going and looking them up and reading them is still better than just thinking about 'em because I know 'em.
Ginger Stache: Well, there is no reason now, for anyone, not to try something. You know how valuable this has been in our life. And God loves you so much, just as much as any one of us. And he will do the very same thing for you. So, we encourage you to start somewhere. We don't care how big or how small. Start somewhere. Pray that God will reveal what he wants to do in your life and that, that connection will grow. And I believe that you will be amazed. I really do. That you will be amazed at how your attitude toward reading and studying the Bible will change, as well as, your life on so many levels.