Joyce Meyer - Psalms, Finding Beauty Beyond the Pain

Ginger Stache: Hi, friends. We have such good stuff for you today. Joyce is with us. We're all here to talk about some really good things. In fact, whether you're a new Christian and you're just looking where to start studying in God's word, or you need a little comfort, a little encouragement, this is the thing: we're gonna be talking about the Psalms. Before we do that, can I whine to you guys just a little bit?

Jai Williams: Please.

Joyce Meyer: Whine?

Ginger Stache: I wanna whine, just the tiniest bit. Just the tiniest bit.

Erin Cluley: She's gonna cut you off after a minute.

Joyce Meyer: What's that? I'm not familiar with that.

Ginger Stache: Mhmm... No, it's just funny, because a lot of people around here have been working on getting their teeth straightened. So, we have a lot of us that, you know, have trays or have finished up with trays: getting our teeth straightened out. So, I've been wanting to do this for, I don't know, many, many years. My teeth have always been, you know, really crooked. My mother's teeth overlap. And my father's teeth have a big gap because he's, you know, he's got a British background.

Joyce Meyer: We're glad to know the tooth history of the whole family.

Ginger Stache: Well, I know. But the whole purpose of sharing the tooth history of the family is because theoretically, my teeth should have been perfect if you would have taken the overlap and the gap and put them together, it would have been a baby with perfect teeth. But it did not work out that way.

Joyce Meyer: I bet people are so glad they tuned in today.

Ginger Stache: And I know, I know.

Joyce Meyer: This is life-changing stuff.

Ginger Stache: So, now, I have invisalign. And I just didn't know that there was so much spit available anywhere, so much in any one person's body.

Erin Cluley: So much of it.

Ginger Stache: So, just, and all the lisping and all the things. So, the reason I bring it up is because Erin finished with hers.

Erin Cluley: I did.

Ginger Stache: Her teeth look wonderful.

Jai Williams: They look really nice.

Erin Cluley: And I don't recall her complaining. She did not complain.

Joyce Meyer: Well, maybe she's more spiritual than you are.

Ginger Stache: I don't think it's maybe. There is something going on, because, yeah, I'm just bringing it up as props to Erin.

Joyce Meyer: Well, you know, David complained in the Psalms.

Ginger Stache: That's why I bring it up. It's okay to bring God all of our complaints, right?

Jai Williams: Yes.

Joyce Meyer: I did a devotional on Psalms, took each Psalm, and I got, you know, sometimes two or three different devotions out of each one. And the thing that really impressed me, I guess, about the Psalms that I had never really noticed before was just how really gut-wrenchingly honest David was with God about how he felt. I've got some examples, like, this is Psalm 13, "How long will you forget me, o Lord, forever? How long will you hide your face from me? How long must I lay up cares within me, and have sorrow in my heart day after day? How long shall my enemy exalt himself over me? Consider and answer me, o Lord, my God. Lighten the eyes of my faith to behold your face". Then he says, the thing that I love is, no matter how much he complains before the Psalm's over, he always says, "But".

Erin Cluley: Yeah, every time.

Joyce Meyer: "I have trusted, leaned on, and been confident in your mercy and loving-kindness, my heart shall rejoice and be in high spirits in your salvation," so you can get happy about your teeth.

Ginger Stache: Exactly. I will rejoice in the fact that I have good dental care. Seriously, I'm so grateful.

Joyce Meyer: That you're going to have straight teeth.

Ginger Stache: Exactly.

Joyce Meyer: "I will sing to the Lord because he has dealt bountifully with me". It's interesting about the Psalms because even people who don't know very much at all about the Bible, if they're having problems, that's where they'll go.

Jai Williams: Yeah. I mean, cuz it's so relatable. It's so relatable. Like that Psalm, right there, the 13th like, was literally, it's been me in the shower forever. Like, you know, just, I'm like, "God, like what is going on"? Because when you think about going through seasons of like, times, and you think about, you know, God fighting your battles and you're thinking about, you know, "'vengeance is mine,' saith the Lord, 'i will repay'". And it's like, "When you gonna pay up, sir"? Like, you know, like how long, you know. But that part that, to get to the ending part to say like, "But in this I still rejoice," and "I still sing songs," like, that's not easy to do.

Joyce Meyer: It's kinda like "This is how I feel, but this is what I believe".

Erin Cluley: And it felt almost, sometimes, like he's prophesying what's to come. Like, even though in his situation it didn't change between here, "I'm really angry," and here's "How you're good". Nothing happened different in there. But he is speaking what he knows is truth based upon what God's promised him. Which...

Joyce Meyer: Psalm 142:2, he says, "I pour out my complaint before him. I tell him my troubles".

Erin Cluley: Yes.

Jai Williams: Yeah.

Ginger Stache: And it's welcomed by God. I think that's what's so beautiful, is that God, he knows us, he knows our hearts, he knows how we're hurting, and he doesn't turn away, when we start to do that. He wraps his arms around us and says, "Let me tell you who I am, and how much I love you". So, like Joyce said, the Psalms are just a really great place to get an understanding of who God is in your life, to find the solace that you need. So, we're gonna start off with her talking about probably the most famous Psalm of all. And see all of the things that happened in that Psalm and how beautiful it is. And then we'll talk about a lot more of the Psalms. Here's Joyce.

Joyce Meyer: "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want". Sheep and shepherds, analogies in the Bible. Jesus is referred to as the shepherd and we are referred to as his sheep. A child proudly says, "This is my dad". It puts an emphasis on "My dad". And I believe when David wrote this Psalm, he would have said it more like, "The Lord is 'my' shepherd". And I want tonight, really my goal in tonight's teaching is for you to come into a place of feeling safe. Everybody wants to feel safe. And especially women want to feel safe. They want to feel taken care of. That's just in our nature to want to feel safe. I want you to know that you're cared for, that God has a plan for your life, that he's not mad at you, that he knew everything that you were going to do wrong before you ever even came into relationship with him. And he already in his providential care provided for all of it. God's got you covered, amen? God's got your back.

"The Lord is 'my' shepherd," I believe David said. I don't want us just to think about a God way off in the sky somewhere, but he wants to have a personal, intimate relationship with us. The difference in religion and relationship is what I just said. Religion always looks for God somewhere and tries to get to God through works and effort and some certain kind of behavior. "Are you a Christian"? "Well, I go to church". "Well, that's not what I asked you". That doesn't make you a Christian. I can sit in my garage for a year and that'll never make me a car. Just because you sit in church, that doesn't make you a Christian, amen? A Christian is not even necessarily someone that does good works. Well, I mean, yes, as Christians, we should do good works, but that doing good works doesn't prove to anybody that I'm a Christian. The thing that makes us a Christian is that we have received Jesus Christ into our heart to be our Lord, to be our Savior. We believe that he is the Son of God, God himself, who took our sin upon himself, who took our punishment, who died in our place, who rose from the dead, is seated at the right hand of God the Father. And as we receive him, he comes to be intimate and personal, to live inside of us, to help us with everything. Amen.

Ginger Stache: There's so much in there. I mean, you could teach for a week on the 23rd Psalm.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah. "I shall not want". "The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want". Just to... How many, boy, we're wanting something all the time. But he had such a relationship with God that he said, "He's more than enough. He satisfies my soul". And there's a, it's Psalm, I think, 17:15 and it says, "I shall be fully satisfied when I awake to find myself beholding your form and having sweet communion with you". And I love that. So, when you are close enough to God that when you wake up in the morning, the first thing you find yourself doing is talking to him, you're gonna find too, that you have a satisfaction that nothing can give you, except a relationship with God. So many people, even people watching right now, they're looking for something to satisfy them. And, you know, you can, there's so many rich, miserable people. You know, having stuff is not what makes you happy. But if God is first, he doesn't mind you having nice things. Who would he want to have nice things, other than his kids? But he doesn't want us to cling to them. We need to always be willing to let go of anything that God tells us to let go of. And so, one more thing, then I'll turn it over to somebody else.

Erin Cluley: You're doing great.

Joyce Meyer: Lest I hog the whole show, here. The thing that's so important about what we're saying here, about being honest, is so many people are so phony when they pray. They think that they need to become a different person when they pray. Like this very religious-sounding, holy person, like, you can't, "I can't tell God that". I remember, one time, thinking, "I can't tell God that". And then, all of a sudden, it came to me, "Well, he knows it anyway". Like, you said, he knows everything. So, we don't need to tell God for God. It's our way of getting it out of us.

Jai Williams: Yeah, it's such a, it can be a bad habit to break, to like, run to friends and family, when you have, you know, things going on in your life. It's easy for me to do that. Like, one of my excuses, my dad's a pastor and so I kind of correlated my relationship with God, with the voice of my father, you know. And so, it took a long time for that to break. And then, with my ex-husband, I used to, like, we would talk through things a lot, you know. And so, one of the things that I'm grateful for, just being an adult that really had to relearn the voice of God and relearn being comfortable just telling him all of my stuff, like, I'm grateful that even my daughter, like, even this morning, she still comes to mama, you know, but she didn't even vent. She just said, "Please pray with me". Like, I thought that was really powerful. I'm like, "Whoo, thank you". Because, you know, the goal is to break that generational curse of, like, running to someone. But it's okay to touch and agree with someone. But like the fact that my kid is already like, "Pray with me".

Ginger Stache: That's awesome.

Jai Williams: You know, like, she didn't say, like, "Just pray for me". She was like," pray with me," you know, "That I can get through," you know, whatever. She didn't even go through all the things. And so, I just even learned from her today, like there were some things that I had on my heart, and I wanted to call my mom or call my best friend, you know, just talk through it. Then she kinda checked me real quick, and I'm like, that's why I said, in the shower, I'm like, "God," like, and I was able to just pour it out to him. So that's a habit that I have to learn to break.

Joyce Meyer: It's not even necessarily wrong to go to someone, but we should always go to God first.

Jai Williams: Right, I didn't wanna go to God first. I wanna tell my mama!

Joyce Meyer: We wanna tell somebody we know will feel sorry for us.

Jai Williams: Right, exactly. That would make me feel better temporarily.

Joyce Meyer: God doesn't feel sorry for us. He gives us an answer.

Jai Williams: Exactly.

Erin Cluley: One thing that you said in that clip, in your Psalm 23 teaching, I have never heard anybody talk about how the emphasis on "My" God is "My" shepherd. And that kind of changes your whole perspective on God when you look at him like that. And I think you see that all through the Psalms that he...It is so personal. He loves me, Erin, because I'm his kid. And he's hurting when I'm hurting. And caden, just, my seven-year-old, he just accepted Jesus into his heart, a couple of weeks ago. So, that's a really, that was a very big day in our house. And so, we've had all these conversations like, "What does that mean that you've done this? And what does it look like, to grow your relationship with God"? So, to get to say to him. "Caden what that means is when you are scared, he's right here, and you talk to him. Or when you're happy, or when you're really frustrated with that friend and you wanna push him down, don't, he's right here. Because he's yours now, because you asked him to be there". And so, all through the Psalms, I think, you get so much of that richness of who he is.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. There are so many beautiful things in the Psalms. Well, of course, you wrote a devotional. With doing that, and that's one of the things that I've done for more years than I even know is, part of my reading the word is reading a Psalm every day. And it becomes such a part of who you are. Like Psalm 139, honestly, that's such a gift from God: that Psalm. If he gave me nothing else, if I didn't know all the other Jewels that were in his word, and he said, "Here, here's Psalm 139," I would be like, "God, thank you," you know, "That you would tell me all of this about who I am, and who you are, and how we connect together". There's just so much. In fact, if I look through my older Bible, at all the notes, it's almost like in Psalms, it's almost like a chronicle of my life, like all these notes and dates of a time that a specific verse really meant something to me. And notes that people gave me, my mom, my kids, different things and how God used different Psalms in my life really is an example of how whatever it is that we're dealing with. He has answers for them. He has love to pour out into our hearts through his word, and for me, specifically through the Psalms.

Erin Cluley: Yeah, that's so funny. I did the same thing. I got my Bible, and I thought, "I'm gonna find my favorite Psalm, which one has the most notes," that's the one that I really needed.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, who wins?

Erin Cluley: Yeah, exactly. So, I'm scanning through and there's like pages of just notes and same kinds of things, and I could probably see tears on the pages of when I needed that message at that moment. So, I couldn't pick one because it's that same kind of thing, you see his faithfulness and all the ways he...

Joyce Meyer: I would say the three most famous or popular Psalms are Psalm 23, Psalm 139, and Psalm 91. I thought I would just mention that. So, if people are not familiar with the Psalms, they could start.

Ginger Stache: Great ones to look at.

Joyce Meyer: And Psalm 139 is fabulous. It's just fantastic. You know, he describes how God made him with his own hand in his mother's womb and then he says, "Wonderful are your works, o Lord". And I thought, "He's saying I'm wonderful". You know. And so many people think so badly of themselves. They have such a poor opinion of themselves. And I mean, David, in the Psalms, kinda kicks that one out of the ballgame, right away. He's like, you know, he calls himself anointed, he calls himself righteous. He says all the good things about him that God wants us to believe about ourselves.

Ginger Stache: And when we know who David was, you know, when we know that he was a man with failures, like we all have, that teaches us so much about God's love for us. That in spite of sin, God called David, a man after his own heart.

Joyce Meyer: And he committed adultery and murder. "A man after my own heart". But, you know, something I've learned is there's a difference in weakness and wickedness. Oh!

Ginger Stache: That's really good.

Joyce Meyer: And David had weaknesses, but he did not have a wicked heart.

Jai Williams: Yeah.

Joyce Meyer: He really, really, really loved God. And, you know, I've read a lot of stuff by madame Guyon, and she said, "Love and then do as you please". And if you really think about it, it's like, if you really, really love God, then you're not gonna do anything that doesn't please him. So, you don't even really want to. It's not a matter of, "I can't". It's, "I don't want to". And I think a lot of people think, "Well, if I become a Christian, then I can't do this and I can't do that. I can't do this, and I can't do that". But the point is, is God changes your heart...

Ginger Stache: Exactly.

Joyce Meyer: And you don't want to. And all those things that you are doing that you think are so important are the very things that are making you miserable and unhappy.

Jai Williams: What do you think is like a, not steps, but like, that love, that depth of the love that, you know, that David must have had for God? Like, how do you get to that point of just loving him to that point? You know, like you said, like that love. I know so many people that want to love God, but have had so many bad things happen in their lives and see the devastation in the world that they feel so disconnected to God.

Joyce Meyer: Well, something that was really life-changing for me. We've all got probably a handful of scriptures that we can say, "Wow, this was like a big thing for me". And in the Amplified Bible, in 1 John 4:16, it says that we are to be conscious and aware of God's love for us.

Jai Williams: Yeah.

Joyce Meyer: And I guess we'd have to talk about it a while to really get the depth of that. But how many times a day is God showing his love for us, even in little, tiny ways? You know, I've come to believe, my husband is very encouraging and he's very complimentary toward me. And I've come to believe that although it's coming out of Dave's mouth, I believe it's God encouraging me. So, I think when other people come and encourage us, it's really, 'cause God uses people. You know, he speaks through people. And so, if you watch for God's love for you and just how he cares about the tiniest detail or the little desire you had in your heart that nobody knew about but you, and all of a sudden, God does it for you. That causes you to fall more, and more, and more in love with him, along with the fact that the Bible says that, "The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost". So, when you're born again, when you receive Christ, love comes in. When he comes in, love comes in, because he is love.

Jai Williams: Yeah, I love that. I love the idea of watching. Like, be on the lookout.

Joyce Meyer: That thrills me. It just, when I see God do little things for me that are just like little winks from God. Like, you know, I got you. I know you're there.

Jai Williams: Yeah, cuz it's easy to be negative, you know.

Ginger Stache: Oh, sure it is.

Jai Williams: It's easier to look for the negative in life.

Ginger Stache: It is easy. I can't eat carrots, right now. It just hurts.

Jai Williams: You have a lot of spit in your mouth. It's easy, though, you know, like Satan is throwing those fiery darts every day like we have to like watch out for, like, watch out for God's love. Like, we have to be on the lookout for little winks from him. I love that.

Joyce Meyer: I think it's good to, at least for a period of time, keep a little record of those things. Because they sometimes are so little that you just, you know, I just appreciate the people that God has put in my life that help me with things, that make my life so much easier. Like one of my daughters says, "I know the call on my life is to take care of you". And she just, she runs my errands. She just does anything I need her to do, she does that. Well, that's a gift from God. That's not just her. 'Cause you couldn't have that desire to do that for somebody. Who would lay down their life to do that for somebody if God didn't put that in their heart? And all the people that work here that are so committed and dedicated. And you know, you can't be that committed to somebody else's thing unless God puts that in your heart to do that.

Ginger Stache: I look, too, at the things that David is talking about when he is pouring out his heart to God and pouring out his pain. And David was not dealing with small things. I mean, he was being hunted down to be killed. And yet, he still turns it and says, "But I will worship you. I trust you. I know you are good". And that tells you so much about who God is and what he wants to hear from us. I think about, you know, with my own kids. I do wanna hear when they're hurting. I wanna know what they're struggling with. And I wanna help them through it. So, it's good for us in multiple ways to be able to pour out our soul to God, but not to forget the "But," you know, don't leave that second part off is that "I'll trust you".

Joyce Meyer: And to verbalize that.

Ginger Stache: Yes.

Joyce Meyer: I think what you're saying is so important for people to hear, but it's not just, "Hey, look what David did". But that's an example of what we should do. And you know, we can get our mouth open to complain. We don't have any trouble with that. But to verbalize that, "Yes, I've got a problem, God. But I put my trust in you and I believe that you will answer me".

Ginger Stache: So, let's dig into some of those specific things, because one of the most brilliant things about what God did through all of these songs, they're really songs of worship, and the songs of people's hearts, is that he put in something for almost every situation that we deal with.

Erin Cluley: All of them.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. So, let's say, you know, you're dealing with fear. You mentioned Psalm 91, and there's just so much comfort in that Psalm that I don't have to be afraid. Anxiety. You know, there are so many things about anxiety and...

Joyce Meyer: Psalm 55 says you "Cast all your care on him".

Ginger Stache: Yes, "Be still and know that I am God".

Joyce Meyer: Psalm 37. You know, the mess we're in, in the world today, it says, "Fret not yourself because of the evildoer 'cause they shall soon be cut down like the grass". "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart".

Erin Cluley: They're such powerful words that if you read them too fast, you can just read it and then just keep going. But if you stop and think about what you just said, that it's just crazy. I love, when I struggled with anxiety intensely, Psalm 4:8 was how I would like, go to sleep at night and I would just say it over and over again. "I would lay down on sleep for you will keep me safe". And so, just to roll it over and over in your mind when you're struggling or with any of the other topics that are in Psalms, just meditate on it over and over.

Jai Williams: Yeah, I remember being a worship pastor at a church, Lord Jesus, I was exhausted and didn't wanna do it, didn't wanna sing, not a tune some days, and I would always glean from Psalm 100, like, "Make a joyful noise to the Lord, all ye lands. Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing," blah, you know. But it's like, "Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that has made us, and not we ourselves". So, it just goes on. So, that Psalm, that's the one that got me up...

Joyce Meyer: That's a great one.

Jai Williams: To go to church even. Like, you know, when I was exhausted or when I didn't really wanna, you know, deal with God's sheep, you know.

Ginger Stache: "No more sheep"!

Jai Williams: "No more sheep, Lord"! I would just quote that over and over again, and that would get me through. But then it would say, like, it ended like, "Enter into his gates with thanksgiving and into his courts with praise".

Joyce Meyer: But now, let's think about that. You can't even come in, to the presence of God, without thanksgiving and praise. "I will enter his gates with thanksgiving. And come into his courts with praise," so.

Jai Williams: Yeah, I love it.

Ginger Stache: Even people-things that we're dealing with. You talk about, you know, "I'm sick of the sheep. I'm sick of all the blaa-ing, and all the things they came up with". But even learning to walk through people-things, you know, I think there's so much gold in who God is that he doesn't say, "Okay, leaders," or "Okay, parents, you're on your own". You know, "You got this". But no, he is a good father. And he's a good leader. And he helps us to know how to deal with those situations. When you're super, super tired, and you're thinking, "How am I gonna do it"? This is a great place to go to find how to do it.

Jai Williams: Yeah, I've always related to David, always from like, I just related to him in so many ways and appreciated that he was so transparent with how he felt and his honesty, but, yeah.

Joyce Meyer: I never saw that as clearly until I did that devotional on Psalms. It was like, you just can't, that became so crystal clear to me that he was not the least bit phony or pretentious with God. He told him exactly how he felt, but he also told him what he believed.

Jai Williams: Yeah, that's beautiful.

Erin Cluley: I love the Psalms because I really love praise and worship. If I could be anywhere all day long, I would be just somewhere in worship. And I don't sing well.

Jai Williams: I mean, you sing, though.

Erin Cluley: But I do.

Jai Williams: You make a joyful noise.

Erin Cluley: My noise is joyful. It is.

Ginger Stache: Her noise is. It is joyful.

Erin Cluley: But when read the Psalms, it's just like it, I love to, like, close my eyes and imagine, like, what is it gonna be like when I'm in his presence. And I'm gonna get emotional every time I think about it, we're, all of us are together, people from all over the world, every nation, every tongue, and we are doing nothing but thanking him for who he is. Because at that point, I don't have any complaints left. I've made it and all I get to do, the sheep have been taken care of.

Joyce Meyer: You don't think you'll complaining about your mansion in heaven?

Erin Cluley: I sure hope not. I sure hope not.

Ginger Stache: You know, you mention that, though. We just came through our annual women's conference, and talk about a sweet, sweet sound is those 15,000 plus women just singing out their praise and worshiping.

Joyce Meyer: It's amazing how we sound so good when we all sing together.

Ginger Stache: It does really help.

Erin Cluley: I sound really great with all those 15,000 ladies.

Jai Williams: I mean, I was standing by you sometimes.

Erin Cluley: You did scoot over a little bit.

Joyce Meyer: They just turn my microphone off during praise and worship. They do. They turn it off. They can't figure out what key I sing in. It's something nobody's ever figured out.

Jai Williams: It's angelic.

Ginger Stache: It's a key all your own. And that's what God wants from us, right? It's like, whatever it is. But there was such a purity in that and such a beautiful sound. And you think about the joy that it brings to God's heart and what it does in our own life and how important that is. And honestly, the whole women's conference, we're just so grateful the way that God took it and did what he wanted to do through it. And so, I hope everybody got to see it and be part of it. But...

Erin Cluley: Life-changing.

Ginger Stache: But there's so much in worship, like you were saying, Erin, there's so much in there that kinda turns our day around.

Joyce Meyer: Have you ever tried to sing any of these Psalms?

Jai Williams: I have, actually.

Joyce Meyer: I did, too. And they're just really unique.

Jai Williams: They take you on a rollercoaster, for sure.

Joyce Meyer: I was thinking their taste in music had to be a little bit different than ours.

Jai Williams: I wish we had the original recordings. I would have loved how David put this all together.

Joyce Meyer: Because they were. They were all songs. That's amazing.

Jai Williams: But I love that. I just...

Joyce Meyer: So, you can sing out your complaints to God.

Jai Williams: Yes. You don't have to just talk them out. And I remember one sweet moment at the conference was just, in worship, where God was speaking so clearly that you even came out, and you had like, a word over people.

Joyce Meyer: "Let go". "It's time to let go".

Jai Williams: "It's time to let go," and like, just...

Joyce Meyer: There was like an anointing there for people to just let go.

Jai Williams: I felt it so clearly. There was certain things that, my daughter and I were standing there, and just like, "Like it's time to just let certain things go". And, but that happens. Like you think about God living and inhabiting the praises of his people. He dwells in that moment. You could feel him tangibly in that. And so, when you walked out and did that at the conference, it was such a powerful moment. I remember being one of those worship leaders, back in the day, where it'd just be like, "I don't know whatcha all goin' sing to come up after this, but ya'll goin' sing over these people and figure it out," and they did. And they did. But it's such a, it's powerful, like the worship experience and singing that stuff out. And they just started singing what you were saying, honestly. And that's what the Psalms are. It was singing what he was feeling in the moment. That's so powerful.

Joyce Meyer: Do you have a list there, Ginger, of some of the subjects covered in Psalms, that we should have?

Ginger Stache: Yeah. So, talking about relationships, Psalm 133:1 says, "How good and pleasant it is when God's people live together in unity". Unity. So important. Suffering. Psalm 22: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me"? Which are the very words that Christ shared on the cross.

Joyce Meyer: That's called the Psalm of the cross.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, it's just so wonderful. "Why are you so far from saving me? So far from the words of my grooming"? I don't know what that means, "So far from the words my grooming," but the rest of it's beautiful. And that's one thing I love about studying the Bible. Is you get a phrase or something that you're not quite sure what it is...

Joyce Meyer: Maybe it means you're having a bad hair day, I dunno.

Ginger Stache: You know what, now, this verse means so much more to me now.

Joyce Meyer: See, interpretation.

Ginger Stache: Why are you so far from my grooming?

Jai Williams: "I'm havin' a bad hair day".

Ginger Stache: See?

Joyce Meyer: I have the gift of interpretation.

Ginger Stache: I love that. In fact, I'm gonna put this on my mirror at home, I think.

Jai Williams: But what if it's something about like, because I know I had certain faith about things from my grooming growing up, of like, I had such faith because I hadn't experienced a lot of life yet. And so, even in moments where I felt like God has forsaken me, there used to be scriptures that I would stand on before I went through some of the most life-shattering things that I've experienced in my 40 years, you know? But like now, it's like, "Where are you"? Like, it's hard for me to even glean from those scriptures that I once stood on.

Joyce Meyer: You got me curious now. I'm gonna have to go home and study that one.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, and I think there's so much available. That's what the Holy Spirit is for, right? He reveals it. For you, it's hair, and for you...

Joyce Meyer: Well, maybe not. I don't know.

Ginger Stache: For me, it's my hair. And for you...

Jai Williams: Maybe it was my hair when I was a little kid. And now it's...

Ginger Stache: It's those words from your youth. And I think that's really important, is don't give up on a scripture when you don't get it and just say, "I can't understand this".

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, yeah.

Ginger Stache: Ask the Holy Spirit to help and keep reading because we don't have to understand every single phrase and nuance to get so much good out of God's word.

Joyce Meyer: You know something in the Psalms that is absolutely beautiful is favor.

Ginger Stache: So, explain what favor means.

Joyce Meyer: Okay, well, if somebody says, "Will you do me a favor"? They're normally saying, "I'm about to ask you for something that I really don't deserve, but I'm hoping you'll give it to me anyway". And so, when God gives us favor, which it says in Psalms that he will, when God gives us favor, like, for example, people will just like you for no reason. They don't even know why they like you: they just do. Or ten people might apply for a position, but you would be the one that would get it. And I believe that we need to live with an awareness of God's favor, and confess that you have God's favor, and ask him for his favor, believe that you have favor. And it also increases your confidence. Instead of being afraid people aren't gonna like you believe that God will give you favor with them.

Ginger Stache: And confidence is another one of those things in the Psalms. There's so much in there when we don't know who we are, we don't feel the confidence that we should have, we can stand on who God says we are based on the Psalms. And it really does change a lot of how we see ourselves.

Joyce Meyer: You know, Proverbs, which I also did a book on Proverbs, it's called In Search of Wisdom. But I love this in the Amplified it says that a fool, it says, "A self-confident fool". So, a fool is a person who puts their confidence in themselves. But in the Psalms, David makes it clear that he gets his confidence from God. From knowing who he is in him. And so, we don't have to live in fear of what people are gonna think or afraid that we're gonna look foolish if we step out and say something. We can put our confidence in God.

Erin Cluley: In the past few years, you know, Mike and I have gone through some stuff. So, I dealt with a lot of rejection. And going back to these scriptures about confidence in who I am in Christ, I felt so grounded because it did shake me. And I've had to walk through some healing because of that. But it never shattered who I knew that I was, because I know I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. And Psalm 139, I print it. And then, just all these things: "I am fearfully wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful," like you said. "You created my inmost being". That means the parts that I might not think are beautiful enough, well, God made those. And he chose to give me all these freckles. So, he must think I'm wonderful. So, whatever rejection I faced, that's not what Psalm 139 says, so I'ma have to work through that. But putting those things in your heart for when you're feeling a lack of confidence, you need it deep in you.

Joyce Meyer: That's good. That's very good. And, you know, it's interesting when, you can read about this stuff and you can mentally agree with it, but having gone through what you've gone through now, and having to apply that now it's different. Same thing for you. All of us, you know, part of having that close relationship with God, I think, is going through things that are just almost unbearable and seeing that he does, you do make it. He does get you through it if you don't give up on him.

Jai Williams: Yeah, I literally had to, like, take those words, exactly, and tape 'em to the bottom of my shoes. Like, because I didn't feel it. I didn't feel fearfully and wonderfully made. I felt rejected, ugly, and easy to be replaced. Like, you know, like that's literally how I felt. And that's what I would tell him. But I like, to the point, I'm like, "Okay, you sayin' I got to stand on your word? I'm literally goin' to have to stand on it". I, like, put it in the soles of my shoes.

Joyce Meyer: That's good.

Jai Williams: I seriously did. Because I'm like, I would write it down and stick it in my shoes. And I still didn't feel nothing, but I had to keep...

Erin Cluley: But you're walking it.

Jai Williams: I had to literally walk in it. I had to do, whatever I had to do, to like really stand on his word. And I would like, when I felt like I didn't feel like it, I'm like, "Well, it ain't my shoes". So, I'm literally standing on it. Like you have to sometimes go do the foolish things to confound the wise. You have to sometimes, just say it over and over again. Because life...

Ginger Stache: Whatever it takes.

Jai Williams: Whatever it takes. Life will throw you those blows to make you feel like that. And that's why I love David, because he makes it okay to say, like, "Okay, it's okay to feel this way. Talk it out with him. And then remember who you are". That's the part like remembering who you are and saying it out loud. That's not the easy part.

Joyce Meyer: Feelings are the biggest problem that Christians have. "I feel". "I feel". "I feel". "I feel like nobody loves me". "I feel". "I feel like God doesn't hear me". "I don't feel like I hear from God". And we really do have to understand that you can feel wrong and still do what's right. You have to understand your feelings are part of your soul and that they're very unreliable and very fickle, and you can, sometimes, they're nice to have and sometimes they're not so nice to have. But we have to not rely on them. We have to, you know, maybe you don't feel loved, but God says he loves you. So, you rely on what he says.

Ginger Stache: That's so true because our feelings, you know, people get really confused with their feelings. It's not that your feelings don't count or that they're not real. They are. And they're something that we have to acknowledge. And that's why it's okay to pour these things out to God. Feelings have value, but they are not always truth. They're not always who you are. So, I've learned so much about praying through the Psalms. The Psalms are songs, but they're also beautiful prayer points, that when we're speaking out, that scripture. So, years and years ago, God gave me Psalm chapter 1, to pray over my husband. And I've done it every day for years, and years, and years. And it just says, "Blessed is he who does not walk in the way of the wicked or sit in the counsel of the sinners". And it goes on to say, "His delight is in the law of the Lord, and on it he meditates day and night. He will be like a tree who was planted with roots that grow deep, and he'll bear fruit in season". And I prayed that for so long when tim was not delighting in the law of the Lord, you know, that was not what we were seeing on the outside. But, you know, I wasn't gonna give up on that. I was still saying that every single day and praying that over him. And, you know, then we come to a point where I see those roots getting deep and I see that fruit that he's bearing. And I see that God is bringing into reality the things that we were standing on, like you were saying, Jai, when you don't see it, when you don't feel it, that is not always the end. We just gotta keep going and keep holding on to those promises.

Joyce Meyer: Our soul is our mind, our will, and our emotions. And just because I think it, doesn't make it true. I have to bring my thoughts captive to the thoughts of Christ. 2 Corinthians 10, and we cast down wrong imaginations and meditate on the right things. And people who don't understand meditation, all it is, is to roll something over and over in your mind. And everybody knows how to meditate because you know how to worry. And that's all worry is, you just think about the problem, and think about it, and think about it, and think about it. And so, when you think about God's word like that, it really gets deep inside you.

Ginger Stache: What are some other things that you deal with in life that you've seen answers to in Psalms or that the Psalms have been a comfort for you? Anything else?

Jai Williams: For me, it's just life in general, like, all of it. Like I said, I've said this over and over again. It's just a capstone of just true-life situations that cause pain. And because I'm like, I've always, I say it all the time on this podcast is that I've been through some really tough times over the past few years and just really getting through it but being able to learn how to lament to God and to tell him my problems, because it's easy to go to people. And then the biggest struggle has not been going to him, it's coming back to that like pendulum swinging to saying, "But you are good, but you are", because it doesn't feel, we talk about feelings. It don't feel like it. Is like, "Okay, God, how many l's am I gonna take"? Like, losses, you know, like...

Erin Cluley: What does l mean?

Jai Williams: I have to break that down. Like, so this is how I talk to God. I talk, like, I've broken down all of the religiosity of my prayer time with him. I'm just like, I talk to him like he is one of my friend, like, "Yo, like, God, come on now". Like, "How many l's am I gonna take"? Like, "When are you going to", it's the Psalm like, you're talkin' about like, "When are you going to fight for me"? Like, "When are you going to vindicate me"? "When are you going to make me feel"? Because on the other side, it look like the other folks winning. Like, this is, so, me just praying that over and over to him and now getting to more of a place now where I can actually say, "Okay, but you are good and I trust you, and I trust that you're working it out, even if I don't see it. It's not for me to see. It's for me to trust and to know that you love me".

Joyce Meyer: "Our times are in his hands..."

Jai Williams: Exactly.

Joyce Meyer: The Bible says. And we don't... I always say there's the beginning, and we get all excited about the beginning. It's new, "Praise God, it's gonna be exciting". And if you ever make it to the end, that's exciting. But you gotta go through the middle. And see, you're kind of in the middle right now. You're waiting on God to vindicate you. And so, you cling to that promise that he is your vindicator. Like, you know, Psalm 61 says that he'll give you "A double recompense for your former trouble". And it even talks about the shame of your youth that he will take care of that. And so, I had a lot of shame from being sexually abused from my father. And man, I was looking for that double blessing. And it took some years, but my goodness, what God has done in my life. It's just like, wow. You gotta, you know, it's amazing. And I think, in answer to your question, there's a lot of protection in the Psalms. You read the Psalms and you really, you feel protected that God is going to take care of you even when you don't see it or know how.

Erin Cluley: I like to go there when I feel exposed, like if I feel overwhelmed, or vulnerable in some way. I mean, lots of things make us feel that way, but the Psalms make you just feel so protected. And like the vastness of who he is, yet he cares so intimately about me, and I like to feel that just sense of overwhelming safety.

Joyce Meyer: I like to do what you do. I like to read one of the Psalms every day as part of my Bible reading, and if I'm really feeling perky, I'll read one of the Proverbs. Something in the Old Testament and something in the new.

Jai Williams: Oooh!

Joyce Meyer: Just really get it going, you know.

Jai Williams: What a perky life. And you know what? When I think of the Psalms too, I just think about, even in today's times, how important it is for us to, like the scripture talks about, "We overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony". And like, seeing David's testimony written out, has been, is so very helpful. Which is why, I believe, why Joyce is so impactful is because, like, we hear her testimony and it just, and being able to see her live the other side of it too, it just is so encouraging. And so, like, that's why I think it's important for us to remember that and even share our testimonies because it, you don't know, like, the living Psalm, we might be for someone if we actually share.

Ginger Stache: And the fact that God has that for each and every one of us. It's not just David. It's not just Joyce meyer. You know, it's each and every one of us.

Jai Williams: Exactly.

Ginger Stache: That he is walking out our story and has wonderful things planned for us. I remember one of the Psalms that has just been so huge in my life. A verse, I just remember wanting to do everything. I wanted to be everything. I wanted to be an astronaut, and a scientist, and the president of the United States. And I wanted, I loved television. I wanted to do that.

Jai Williams: All attainable.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, all of it. I want, be a surgeon. I just wanted to do it all. And there's stress in that. It's like, "What do I do with this life"? And Psalm 37:4: "Delight", or is it 34:7? It's 37:4.

Joyce Meyer: 37:4.

Ginger Stache: "Delight", thank you. "Delight in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart". And what that did for me was take the stress off because it wasn't that I had to do and be everything. It's that when I just focused on him, he would not give me everything I wanted, he would put in my heart the desires that were his desires for me. Whew! Talk about pressure off. That was great.

Joyce Meyer: Well, one of the ways you hear from God, is if you have a desire, I mean, a good desire, and it just keeps staying and keeps staying, and keeps staying. One of the ways that I hear from God is like if he just keeps putting somebody on my heart. And it sometimes, would be somebody I haven't thought of in a long time. And then I'll know that I need to call them or just, you know, a text, "Hey, I've been thinking about you. God loves you. I appreciate you". It's amazing how just, part of that being close to God is following him and listening to what he says and doing what he tells you to.

Ginger Stache: There's just so much, like you were saying, so much comfort, so much wisdom, so much joy, so much protection. We encourage all of you to get into the Psalms. Don't think it's not gonna soak in because that's the miracle of the Holy Spirit. It's gonna make a difference in your life. And Joyce does have this new devotional called "Daily devotions from the Psalms".

Joyce Meyer: And it will help them understand the Psalms.

Ginger Stache: Absolutely, yes! And the prayer that goes behind it, and spending that time every day, you'll be amazed at what God opens up in your heart. So, if you go to: joycemeyer.org/talkitout, you can get that book and then you'll also get it with a note keeper. 'Cause Joyce, you talked about writing those things down...

Joyce Meyer: Right.

Ginger Stache: Those things that God is doing and those encouraging things, what he's teaching you.

Joyce Meyer: Watch for that love.

Ginger Stache: Yes, exactly. Those little God winks, keeping all those. And I just can't wait, and we would love to hear from all of you. We would love to hear from you. Maybe it's a Psalm that really speaks to your heart, or maybe it's something that God's gonna start doing now through those things, we would love to hear. And we were talking earlier also about the women's conference, if you would like to check it out, it is available online for you. So, you can go to: joycemeyer.Org and you can still stream the women's conference. And there, oh, my goodness, so much gold in that, that will really impact your life. We're gonna leave it on a little bit longer, so, because of our talk it out friends, we want you to be able to see it. So, we'll keep it up there through the end of October for you, so that you can check it out. You guys, thank you all very much. Really good stuff today. Appreciate it. And thanks for writing that daily devotional about the Psalms.

Joyce Meyer: You're welcome. It takes a long time.

Ginger Stache: I know it does. I know it does.

Joyce Meyer: I got, it was like, I got a lot out of each one. I had to glean every little thing in there that there was to get three, you know, 365 devotions.

Ginger Stache: So much.

Jai Williams: You did the work for us, thank you.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. Well, thank you all. Thank you, friends. And we will see you all next time. Bye-bye.