Joyce Meyer - The Heartbreak Of A Mom with Lisa Harper

TOPICS: Talk It Out, Parenting, Motherhood

Ginger Stache: Hi, friends, and welcome to this special edition of the podcast. This one goes out to all the moms, and you are going to love it. You see, motherhood, as you know, is not for wimps. And there's so much to talk about. It is difficult, and beautiful, and challenging, and wonderful. And today, we're talking about the heart of a mom. And we're sharing moments from your favorite podcast episodes on this topic. So, moms take heart. We are here for you, and we are in this together. And there is much to discuss on today's talk it out. First up, let's talk about the heartbreak of being a mom to teens.

Ginger Stache: Can we talk a little bit about the heartbreak of being a mom? 'Cuz honestly, being a parent just means you will have your heart broken many, many times. And I think, especially, in those teen years when they're learning how to have their own life, how to separate. And you know, sometimes, you take the brunt of things. Other times, you just don't know everything that's happening. And that's hard to learn how to walk through. So, I think it's good for people to know that there's a lot of heartbreak in being a mom. There's a lot of joy that overshadows it. But it's okay, sometimes, to allow your heart to break because things aren't going like you wanted. Or, you know, whether, seeing a child make mistakes, which is so hard for a parent. Or not just being everything the way that you want it to be. So, heart break's a lot of it.

Jai Williams: Yeah, it's a whole lot of heart break. And I'm learning it more and more now, of me relinquishing my dream that I had for her. That I thought God was telling me that she'd be, and that she'd like, and "Oh, her personality is gonna be so much like this". Because who she was like, when she was six and seven, she was just this huge vibrant like, really outspoken fun, fun-like kid, but who she is now, is way more reserved and introspective, but deep, and like... I love that, but it just wasn't what I thought she'd be, you know? And so, it's just so much, when you realize that she or he, you know, whoever you're... Whatever you have, begins to not need you anymore too, there's a heart break in that. Like her not needing me to help her make decisions, or her not needing my approval on how her hair looks, or how her makeup looks, like, or the way she puts her eyebrows on. You know, I'm like, "Girl..." She'd be like, "I'm good". I'm like, "Ah"! But those are little heart breaks. But then, when you get to bigger heart breaks, even with her making the decision... It was a collective decision between she and I, like... To like, actually when she decided to move with her dad that was hard. That's miles. I live in Missouri and her dad lives in Florida now. And that was heartbreaking. But for her to say, "Mom, I need this for my spiritual health". There's still another piece of that, it's like, "I must have done something okay," you know, that I'm like, thank... That was a little kiss from God to be like, "Hey, like she's doing this not just because she wants to get away from you". Even though it felt like it right. It felt like she wanted everything to do... Not to do with me, because I'm the rule keep her. I'm the one, "What are you doing next. What is going on with this? You know, what are your grades looking like"? And she didn't want to hear that anymore. And so, that broke my heart. And so, I had to honestly, allow myself... It's been a whole lot of this, in this season, but grieve what I thought that our relationship would be at this phase. Like, I've allowed myself to just be like... You know? And then keeping people around me, that's why I'm so grateful for this podcast, and the friends that we have through like, everyone watching. It's just, we have so many different age groups. It's important diversify your friendships. Because I'm able to call g, or talk to Ginger and say like, "Hey". And she's like, "Hey, they'll get back to you. She'll get back to you. She'll need you". Like, but... Just let... You know, so it's that hope of knowing that, "Okay, this is a season. This is a part... Chapter in the book". It's tough though.

Ginger Stache: It is. It's hard. And I think there's so much to be said in trusting God to know what's best for our kids. Because we don't, I think I do. I'm pretty sure I do, but I don't. He knows so much more. And along the same lines, I remember when one of our daughters, Morgan, was in high school. And at the time, she was just, "I don't wanna go to college. I don't wanna do certain things," that I felt like was where God would take her. And it wasn't even because everybody should or anything like that. It was just a perspective. And so, I started to realize, the more I fought that the more I was doing damage, you know, instead of supporting. So, I finally, thank the Lord, just came to that place where I was like, "Okay, you know, she's yours, and we'll wait and see what happens". And you know, he took her down a completely different path, and she did college for more years than I can even say, but...

Erin Cluley: She really did.

Jai Williams: She did lots of school.

Ginger Stache: But so, right now, whatever's happening, you don't know what the end is, but God does. So, we can trust him. And that's a hard place to get to, as a mama who just wants to make everything, okay.

Jai Williams: You just want to make sure that they're making the right choices. And that's the thing like, even Taylor's saying, "I wanna take a gap year and focus on my relationship with Jesus". And I'm like, "On the Jesus side, I'm really happy". But on the my plans side, I was like, "But what about school"? You know? But I have to trust that God has a plan that's far greater than whatever I had envisioned for her, and I have to trust. And that's the part that we don't like with anything, is not knowing what the end will be. It's that fear of like, the unknown of what is this gonna pan out to look like. But we really do have to trust God. And that's one thing that, in this season, I've asked God to like take my hands off. Like I've done... I've done as much as I can do, and I'm here, and I want to be... Honestly, I don't want to just be her best friend, cuz I'm not... That's not the goal is just to be like buddy-buddy with my kid. But my goal is to want her, at this age, when she's almost 18, for me to be a resource for her that she'd actually want to come to. But if I'm always...

Ginger Stache: A safe place.

Jai Williams: A safe place. If I'm always pushing on her, if I'm always nagging at her, and pointing out her flaws, and critiquing her... Which I can easily be. That's like, that's my personality, just to point out like, 'cuz I love excellence. But I don't want to be that with her. I want her to want to come to me. That's my goal, at this phase, as she's phasing into adulthood, I want her to choose to come to me now. And so, and the part of that is me relinquishing control of things and trusting that God's led me this far, and he'll take care of the rest.

Ginger Stache: Well, whatever stage we are in with our kids, one thing is true, and that is that it will change. So, if you're going through a hard time with your kids right now, it will change. And Joyce has some encouragement for you. Now, that she has that ability of hindsight, right, to look back and to see what God was doing. So, let's take a listen, and we'll be back.

Joyce Meyer: Oh, my gosh. I wasted so much time when my youngest son was a little boy, wondering if he was gonna survive. He hated school. He didn't like any of it. I mean, I so rejoiced when that boy got out of high school, and college was not even anything we would have dared to talk about, because he just did not like school. He didn't like any of it. He had a hard time learning the conventional way. Well, guess what? I wasted all that time, because right now, today he's the CEO of Joyce Meyer Ministries. So you can save yourself a lot of time by not worrying about your kids and just say, "God, I don't know what your plan is, but I trust you got one". I mean, you know, I had one daughter. I thought, "How is this kid gonna leave home and survive? I mean, she can't even find her shoes in the morning. What is she gonna do without me"? And now you want to know the funny thing? She's the one out of my four kids who runs all my errands and takes care of me and comes and packs me for these trips to make sure that I get out of town with all my ducks in a row. So, the one who couldn't take care of herself now takes care of me. Come on, there's hope for your kids.

Mike: what is your favorite thing about mommy?

Caden: oh, I know.

Mike: what?

Caden: she always plays with us.

Taylor: she's just always been there. And we don't have to feel scared, or embarrassed, or anything, to talk to her about the hard stuff.

Taylor: this season, so far, has been one of my favorite memories because it has been a hard season for us. And I feel like that we have grown with each other way more than we have ever. Morgan: you've made our lives fun. You've helped us instill curiosity. You taught us how to work hard when we needed to work hard. You always encouraged us to go after what we wanted, and you helped us figure out what that was at times, when it was a little muddy. And I think that it's really exciting to try to emulate that and to pass that on to our kiddos.

Mike: so, who's your favorite? Is it mommy or daddy?

Peyton: mommy.

Caden: mommy.

Mike: who's your super-duper favorite though, if you had to pick one?

Caden: daddy, I mean, mommy.

Taylor: she has supported me like, so much. And if she feels like she hasn't done enough, I want her to know that she has done more than enough for me.

Taylor: parent's don't have to be there, the way that mom was for us. It's made me really realize just how great she is, and was, when we were going up. Morgan: they're big shoes to fill but I know she's right there next to us as we walk through this parenting journey ourselves.

Peyton and Caden: we love you, mommy.

Peyton: we love you, mommy.

Taylor: I love you so much, to the point, as where I get in trouble, I don't stay mad very long because it's like, "Oh, I wonder what mom's doing," like, I always wanna come back to you. Morgan: it's just invaluable the little ways you instilled good values in us and showed us you loved us despite circumstances and throughout all things.

Taylor: you know, mom, it's just so easy to love you. I mean, you've given us such a good example of what a strong, confident, godly, beautiful woman should be.

Peyton and Caden: bye! See you later!

Erin Cluley: That was. That was terrible. I mean, that was not terrible...

Ginger Stache: We did not know this was coming, obviously.

Erin Cluley: You didn't know?

Ginger Stache: No! I had no idea. They did... Okay, they surprised us, and those are awesome kids. All of those are awesome kids. I loved them arguing over who they love the most, you know, mommy or daddy, so, sweet. And seeing Taylor talk about you through this time says so much of the godly example, you have been. And girls, thank you so much. I love you so much. That was beautiful.

Erin Cluley: I just have to say, Jai, to... I wanted to say this before, that, and now I really have to super say it.

Ginger Stache: Where's the Kleenex?

Erin Cluley: Watching you love Taylor during this past year and a half, or however long it's been, it's been like remarkable, and the grace and the strength you've walked through this with. I know it's been a hard and I'm sure you haven't done it perfect cuz none of us do, but, oh, my gosh, the strength that you've shown, and you are cleaning to Jesus. And even if you don't know what you're doing, Taylor is seeing you look to him. And there is nothing more important that you can show her, but...

Jai Williams: It's just a blessing to see. Like, you know, you hear it, and you think you're doing a good job, but to hear 'em say it, and then, you know, it's just great. And it's great to even see, you know, of course, the kiddos.

Erin Cluley: Peyton was in her frozen dress, of course.

Jai Williams: She had no clue. But that's typically... She's either in something, either panties or some type of like costume of some sort.

Erin Cluley: We go one extreme or the other.

Jai Williams: But, seeing them, and I know how much they adore you, and love you. And even seeing mike with them, like, just with all that you guys have been going through, like that is such a blessing. That's a blessing to see like, the fight and to see your family, you know, like that's so great, cuz it shows how much he loves you too. So, you're doing a great job. And then, to also see, you know, Taylor and Morgan, you know, adult girls, it gives me so much hope, to hear like... And I know how you used to think about, because you are such a boss woman, like, you're like, you do a lot of great, great things, and you're just getting started. And like, I know we've had discussions about you wondering like, "Did I do too much, was that for your girls"? But to hear how much they look up to you, you know, in the example that they said, like, that was just... It's just a blessing to see. We're blessed, ladies.

Ginger Stache: We are.

Erin Cluley: This morning, I was thinking of you. It happens a lot lately, but I was getting their lunches ready for school. And it's usually a stressful time in the morning, but they had these new therMoses that they were gonna have mac and cheese in. And they were real excited. And so, I was putting it in there, and I was just thinking like, "This is an adventure that I'm creating for them in this moment". And it's not that big of a deal, today to get have spaghetti, or mac and cheese, and not a peanut butter sandwich. But to them, it was so exciting. And so, to watch your girls share what you instilled in them and just that excitement for the small things in life. I want my kids to be excited for small things. And to look for that stuff in their life.

Ginger Stache: They will, because they're seeing it. They're seeing it in you.

Erin Cluley: But you're teaching. You taught your girls that. You're teaching us that. I just... You're a good mom.

Ginger Stache: Oh, you know, made so many mistakes, made so many mistakes along the way. We all have. Every parent does, no parent is perfect. No child is perfect. No situation is perfect. And I'm so grateful for the grace of God, you know, that covers things. And the fact that honestly, I do encourage you to make it a commitment to enjoy something about this day and this stage all the way along. Because, Erin, it will go fast. It will go fast. And you know, now even with my grandkids, you know, I want that same thing. I want to take in every bit of the joy I can, and let the frustration go. Let those days that I'm missing them, you know, go. Those days that aren't exactly like I would want it to be. And to create real good memories with your kids. And always being amazed at how God make that happen, how sometimes, you remember the good parts and not all the bad parts. Those things that, right now, are so heavy on your heart, they will fade because God will do wonderful things, so.

Jai Williams: Yeah, and just also, this was... It was beautiful to me because, like when kids are seven... Like you know, around my daughter's age, you like wonder if they like you at all, you know? And so, even her outward expression towards me was not always liking me. It was just... I have felt like she wanted to get like the furthest away, like as far as she could, away from me, you know? But to hear her say that, you know... And she was literally, in Florida, I know... That ain't my couch, so. But saying those kind of things about me there, it's just still like... So, if you're watching and you don't feel like your kids even like you or don't want anything to do with you... I went through a season where I didn't want anything to do with my parents, and my family. And eight years later, I'm able to say that I love my pare... Like me and my parents have a great relationship. Literally, I've facetime like, you guys. Like, we were on a zoom call, or something and I'm showing you guys my mom. Like our relationship is so much better. God restores and God heals. And he makes it so much better than any of the time that's lost. So, don't be distracted. Don't be distracted. Keep the faith. Keep love in your heart and keep doing the best you can.

Ginger Stache: Keep hope. I think that's the biggest thing we can tell a mom, a dad is to keep hope in the potential for your kids. Don't give up on your kids, no matter what, because God's always working, and he's always working on us as parents, and doing so much. So, there you heard it: don't give up on your kids! They have so much potential, and God can do so much more than you even realize. And moms, don't give up on yourself. God has called you to do what you are doing and he's specifically given you these children to love and to lead. It's a match made in heaven. And sometimes, it feels really hard, but God will walk with you through it. You know, it's also easy to feel like we're doing something wrong if our motherhood journey doesn't look just like everyone else's or if we choose not to be a mother at all. Culture tells us that we should be married and a mom by a certain time. And if those boxes aren't checked off in a timely manner, then you have somehow failed. But Erin, Jai, and I, had an amazing conversation with our great friend Lisa Harper and discussed the truth of who God actually created us to be and how uniquely designed our stories are. There's so much in all of this, that God knows our individual hearts, but we don't always know our hearts as well as God does, you know. For me, I was... I was fiercely against any stereotypical thing of a woman.

Jai Williams: Shocker. That's a shocker.

Ginger Stache: So, I was like, I knew that I did not have a mother's gene in my body, anywhere. I was not gonna do the motherhood thing. You know, it just, it wasn't me.

Lisa Harper: Why, Ginger? Did you have a stereotype that was like, pink and pastel, and lace? You know, I think it was more, I had goals, and I knew what God was calling me to, I thought. Those are two different things. So, I was walking with the Lord. But I really felt like he was asking me to do these things, and that motherhood was not something he put in me. And I think a little bit of me, thought I was broken. Like I didn't have that natural tendency that other mothers do. I loved kids, and I don't know how that works, because I've always been drawn to kids and they're drawn to me. But I didn't have that baby thing, where like, "Let me hold your baby," and, "I can't wait to have my own". I was like, "I want to nurture people in other ways. I want to be a leader. I want to sponsor children who need help". You know, all these other things.

Erin Cluley: Culture told you that you were doing it the wrong way. So, therefore, you shouldn't be a mother.

Ginger Stache: Exactly. So, I dealt with a lot of, "What's wrong"?

Lisa Harper: Second-best instead of first best.

Ginger Stache: Yes, yeah, and so, in Psalm 37, where it says, "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart". It was not at all, when I started praying that prayer, about getting what I wanted. It was about God, putting the desires in my heart, that were in line with his word. And so, after a while my feelings about myself, and our family, and motherhood, and all those things changed. But what's so beautiful about it, is it didn't take away those other things, that drive to lead people, and to see God work in different ways. You know, I still believe that every woman, whoever they are, God has put something specific in them. And we don't all have to fit into the same basket. We don't have to look the same, do the same. We can love ourselves, no matter what, because he does.

Lisa Harper: Homogeneity's unattractive.

Ginger Stache: Yes.

Lisa Harper: When you see the same thing, I'm like, "Well, that's just like stepford wives, that's lemmings, that's not..." I think, becoming a mom older... Because when I was younger, and I grew up in the south, there was that stereotype of kind of the, "Ozzie and harriet," and it looked a certain way. And... But getting older and seeing people like you, seeing people like Lisa bevere, who's you know, wearing leather pants and swinging a sword at 60. Seeing... I thought, "Oh, there's not this narrow paradigm. These are women who are running hard toward Jesus". And leading... Isn't weird that you grew up in church, but you thought being a mother and being a leader were two separate things, which is crazy.

Ginger Stache: I did, I did. And they're not. And I think, even for men, men need to know that too. You know, there's something about being a leader that you have to be able to love and nurture the people in your care. It's called being a shepherd. And you know, that's how God sets it up. So, as women there are so many different things in our hearts, so many desires. I got a message from someone that really touched me. And she was talking about being in that place where they had tried to have children for a very long time and it didn't happen. And it still hasn't happened, and coming to where she was at a place of peace in that. Knowing that it didn't mean she was in complete. That there were things that God was doing in her life that we're good and teaching her through that. And I think that's important, that we look at all the different facets of womanhood.

Erin Cluley: My sister... I was talking to my sister yesterday. And she and I are four years apart. She's younger than I am, but she's married, and people ask her all the time, "When are you going to have a baby"? And they don't want kids. And that has been hard for her, not because she doesn't want them, they're comfortable with their decision, but that's not... Like we're talking about earlier, "That's not acceptable". There's something wrong that, that's not... Like, "Why don't you"? And they'll say, to my mom, "Oh, I'm so sorry. You can't have grandkids". And it makes me frustrated, for her, because she's not a second-rate woman. She is amazing. And God has put so much in her and she's so strong. And she has so many gifts, I can't wait to see how God uses them. Not because she's going to be a mother, but because of whatever her story is. So, when we were talking about this, I had this realization that our stories are so unique. My story is different than yours, and yours, and yours, and everybody's. And God loves us so much, infinitely, like you were saying, that his story is unique for you and me. And they are gonna look so different, but his heart for us is good. You and I were talking about it earlier, the goodness of who God is. He's so good, even amidst the pain of the woman waiting for years, or the woman who doesn't want kids, and feels like she's doing something wrong, or whatever situation you are. That's how good he is.

Ginger Stache: And the different types of healing he's done in each one of our lives. That hole, that healing, that we all need in one way or another, that he's there for every aspect of it.

Lisa Harper: I'm so glad that we're talking about this because I think, even y'all talking about it, will help dispel the myth for some people, who do think there's one way to do this Christian womanhood thing right, and everything else is a, you know, is kind of a pale imitation. "But if I do it right, I'm to be married by this age, and have two point three kids, and I'm gonna cross-stitch, my Bible verses, and I'm gonna..." and there's still kind of a pretty narrow paradigm.

Ginger Stache: Well, you do have to do the cross-stitch thing. That one is in the Bible.

Lisa Harper: Oh, I'm going straight to the hot place. I'm about as domestic as wallpaper, I cannot cross-stitch. But even there, Ginger, when I did become a mom... Because I made a conscious choice in my forties... Probably mid-forties. I'd read... Y'all have read it a million times. You may have cross-stitched it. You know the cs Lewis quote about if you want... If you don't want to get hurt, if you don't experience the pain, to not love anything. Don't even love a pet, don't wrap your... But at the end of this quote... It's one of the most powerful quotes on love. He says, at the end of it, "Your heart will be locked up tight in a coffin". "And the real... The real grief is that you won't be hurt, but your heart will be impenetrable". And I remember reading that for the umpteenth time... I have a Platonic crush on cs Lewis. And I thought, "I've got a choice. I may never get married or be a mother, but I have a choice to either protect my heart and keep it from getting hurt, and then my heart will get hard, or I can lead with God says to worship with my heart and my mind". So, I can press into the lives of my friends' kids. I can press into other people knowing, "Yeah, there's gonna be missteps along the way. Sometimes it'll be hard". But I just am not gonna kind of cocoon my heart because people hurt my feelings. I had a guy at a church once... I was interviewing to be on a church staff. I ended up going on this church staff. But one of the elders, in the interview meeting, said, "Lisa, I'm just wondering..." this is almost verbatim what he said. I can remember it. Should have punched him in the throat. But he said, "Lisa, you know, I'm just wondering, since you're single, I mean, what can you teach our women? I mean, we all have wives. If you're single, and not a mom, how can you lead them spiritually"? And he wasn't mean, he truly...

Erin Cluley: May we punch him in the throat?

Lisa Harper: Poor fella. But he truly was thinking, "What do you have to offer"?

Ginger Stache: Just a serious question.

Lisa Harper: Yeah, and I remember being a little discombobulated. And of course, you don't wanna react, you wanna respond. And I said, "Well, I think the gospel extends far beyond the bounds of marriage". And I believe... Cuz I believe everything in here, cover to cover is applicable to the human experience, whether you're married, single, not. But you have to make those decisions. And you have to, even now, as an older, single mom, adoptive mom, transracial family, and I travel, I can't tell you how many times, other moms have shamed me. They're like, "Well, we're having a thing". And I was like, "Well, my... I'm not going to bring gluten-free. I'm going by whole foods. Here's what I'm bringing, because I get to go be with my friends in st. Louis tomorrow. So, I'm not gonna stay up all night, and I actually have a job, cuz I bring home the bacon in our family". And I... Sometimes, you just have to go, "I'm just gonna fly the flag God has given me, and do it with kindness, but go, "No, that's not my lane. That's your lane".

Ginger Stache: Thank you, Lisa. Thank you. Because I've felt so much of that condemnation. Not so much, you know, for a long time, but when my kids were little, that "I wasn't doing it right. I wasn't doing it like all the other Christian moms". And it hurts. And I really had to learn to get through a lot of that. So, thank you for bringing that up.

Jai Williams: I remember that too. Because I was fresh out of college, having my daughter. I remember feeling like, and I was a marketing exec, and I remember going to the bathroom and pumping. Humiliating, right?

Erin Cluley: Oh yeah. I'm laughing, because in the middle of the workday and you hear...

Ginger Stache: Erin used to call it going to church. She'd come in, she goes, "I'm going to church".

Erin Cluley: I'll be back in 30 minutes.

Jai Williams: I remember that, and I remember, like, or, like, being... Feeling like I shouldn't be... Have to do that because, "How could I possibly be nursing a kid, and working, and why would I be here"? And I remember, one time, sitting so long that I engorged. And then, in my little tan suit, having like, two big ol' wet circles because I didn't go do it, you know, cuz I was like, "I'm gonna just force through it". But I'm just saying the shame of that. And then, the thought of even my mom, having these great experiences with my kid cuz she was watching her, at the beginning. You know, and I was like, "I feel terrible". And I remember quitting that job. I quit that job because I just couldn't... I couldn't... I felt like less than a mom for pursuing my career and leaving my kid with my mom.

Lisa Harper: The struggle's real. But I'm so glad, again, I'm such a slow learner, and I had a lot of friends who were really honest with me. Because I had so many women... When I was bringing Missy home, from Haiti, finally... I lost two adoptions before. By the grace of God, I got to bring Missy home from Haiti. Her first mama died when she was two. And, you know, I was just over the moon. But, I had all these people, before I brought her home, and they're like, "So, you're not gonna travel anymore". And I was like, "Oh". You know, how you're like, "I didn't know my ministry calling was going to be off the table when I became a mom, but that is what everybody seems to be saying". And if it hadn't been for Chris Caine and Priscilla shirer, both of whom, pulled me aside and they were like, "Lisa, your life is not gonna be conventional. And everybody's gonna try to put you into this kind of conventional, conservative, church mold of what a mother is". They were like, "You had a calling on your life, and God doesn't revoke that calling when you become a mom. He will give you the grace to do both. You're not gonna do both perfectly. But Missy will probably be a kid who loves to travel, and loves the church". And I was like... And it scared me, cuz I thought, "Oh, I'll so anything. I can't believe he let me be a mama. I'll just work at target. I'm strong, I can stack boxes". Cuz I thought that's what I was supposed to do. And they just, both of them, said, "It's not gonna be comfortable, and you are not gonna fit. And you do what God has called you to do. And if he's clapping, that's your audience. But, you're probably..." in the south I'm very conservative theologically. They were like, "In the south, in southern culture, in orthodox culture, there's not a whole lot of templates for what you do". So, they were like, "Don't expect everybody to pat you on the back. You run your race, and you listen to the Holy Spirit".

Ginger Stache: I love that. That's so good. I learned so much about Philippians 4:13, cuz we grab that scripture, "I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength". And so, as women, then, we get that, "I can do everything, and I won't drop any balls, and it's through Christ. It's not me, but I can do all of it". And I learned so strongly through that, that it's, God saying, "I will give you all things. I will give you strength in all things, but that doesn't mean you will have all things". And so, learning who God had for me to be, was really important in that. What things do you pull out of your life? What things does he ask you to focus on?

Lisa Harper: And for a season.

Ginger Stache: Yes, right.

Lisa Harper: There's some balls, that you go, "I've gotta set this aside, for the next two or three years, while I do this". That doesn't mean it's jettisoned forever. Then, when this shifts, when they start to drive, "Okay, I have more time now, cuz I'm not a taxi mama," when they... There's just... When you're not pumping, you do have more time. I think that's where, goodness, gracious, as Christian women, we have got to give each other more latitude and go, "You don't have to look like me in how you do it," and, "How can I help you"? Let's kind of blow the paradigm, and make it God's paradigm. Deborah led Israel. You go... I'm sure there was some yayhoo on the side going, "Did you make your husband, a hot meal tonight"? And you know Deborah probably said, "No, I went through Chick-fil-A". And so, I think sometimes, we have to go, "Let's just kind of go, what really is God's perspective? And what kind of baggage are we saddling on each other saying, 'this is God's plan for you'".

Ginger Stache: There you have it, moms. Isn't a good to know that you're not alone in some of those things that you're feeling, in those things that you're dealing with? That's why it's so great to talk it out together. And we love hearing from you. I have a couple things to share from YouTube, right now. Just some comments, some people have posted, and it's very encouraging. This one says... From kelsey, "I always love your podcasts, but this one spoke to me today. Being a toddler parent, I often get swept up in the to-do lists and the immediate pressures of just getting everything done, and I forget to enjoy the moment. Thanks for reminding me that this time goes by so quickly". Here's one more. This is from, hisgrace365, and she says, "As a 32-year-old woman who has never married and has no kids, I want to say, 'thank you'. I've experienced a lot of the situations and things talked about, and it was so refreshing to hear women of faith speak about a topic that can be either mishandled or highly glossed over. Thank you for giving me a voice". Well, I'll tell ya, we all need a voice. And God wants us to be able to share our hearts. The heart of a woman is something that he knows intricately. He knows you. He knows what you need. And isn't it freeing to know that God's heart for a woman is so special and unique, that we don't have to all be the same? His love for you is remarkable and unimaginably big. So, no matter what, you are walking through today, whether you're praying for your kids as they go to school, you're praying for a child to come back to the Lord, maybe, you're begging for a baby or feeling the pressure of society to do what they think you should, God sees you. He knows you. And he loves you. He is for you. And you are enough just as you are. So, we're so glad that you've joined us. We do have an offer for you today, a great little booklet that will help you. It's absolutely free. It's called, "Help for parents". What a great title. It's a free booklet download. And you can get that at joycemeyer.org/talkitout, where you can that free download. We are going to end today, don't go away yet, with a beautiful prayer from Joyce, who is praying for your kids.

Joyce Meyer: Father, we know that you are a miracle working God. And we love our children, but we know that you love them even more. And I know myself, I went through times of great stress and worry over my kids. And now they're all grown adults and they're all doing good. And a lot of times, we worry about a lot of stuff that we just need to give them time to get through. And so, I pray for all the children that are represented here. And it's our prayer that each of them would be truly born-again, baptized in your spirit, and walking and living with a serious commitment to you. Now, whatever you need to do to make that happen, we want you to do it. And we know that you can do it.

And so, we pray that you will bother them. And when they do things, they shouldn't be doing that they just cannot have that peace inside, and that they'll know, just know that what they're doing is wrong. And I pray that they will not be so influenced by their friends, but they'll be more influenced by you. And whatever they have... The good things they've learned about you in the past will come back to them. We take authority over addictions, drug addiction, alcohol addiction, pornography addictions, gambling addictions. We resist Satan on their behalf, in Jesus' name, and we cast him out and break his power over them. We thank you for the blood of Jesus, the name of Jesus. And we call all of these children saved. If there's any of them that are sick, if they have disease in their body, or there's something that needs to be healed, we ask you to heal them. And I pray that you would show each one of the parents what they should do, when they should talk, when they should be quiet. Help them love their children as they are, not the way they want them to be. And help love them into wholeness, in Jesus' name, we call it done. Amen.

All right. Now, you have to do something for me. Well, you actually, do this for yourself. We just prayed, and your words are powerful, so, now, you're gonna talk about your children as if this is a done. Amen? You don't have to lie. But let's say you go to lunch with a friend, and they say, "How's Johnny doing with his drug problem"? You say, "Well, he's not completely free yet, in the natural, but God's working in him, and he is on his way". Do not go and talk to somebody and say, "I'm afraid they're never gonna change". "I'm afraid of this. I'm afraid of that". We serve a God, according to Romans 4:17, that calls things that do not exist as if they already existed. So, make a commitment to bring your mouth in line with God's word. And be patient, it may take some time, but God is faithful. You do your part and he'll do his part. Amen?