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Joyce Meyer - Discovering Your Style Designing Your Life


Joyce Meyer - Discovering Your Style Designing Your Life
TOPICS: Talk It Out
Joyce Meyer - Discovering Your Style Designing Your Life

Ginger Stache: Hi, friends. You are gonna be so happy that you are here with us today because we are talking about style: what's in, what's out. But even bigger than that, we are talking about designing your life in a way that will inspire you, make you happy, and point everyone to Christ, 'cause that's what it's all about. And we have our special guest with us today, Katie Torwalt. Katie, thank you. We're so excited to have you here.

Katie Torwalt: Thank you.

Ginger Stache: I love this woman. I love Katie Torwalt.

Erin Cluley: Yeah, we're like the Katie Torwalt fan club, right here.

Katie Torwalt: Aww, guys, thank you. You're sweet.

Ginger Stache: Katie, as I'm sure you know, she and her husband, Bryan are worship leaders. They've been a part of Jesus culture for a long time. We've been so blessed to have you a part of many of our Joyce Meyer Ministries conferences. And it's always so fun when you guys are there. And Katie also has fabulous fashion sense.

Katie Torwalt: Aww...Guys. You guys are blessing me today.

Erin Cluley: We only speak honest truth in here, so.

Ginger Stache: That's true. We're big encouragers, but we never lie, so.

Jai Williams: Too well, sometimes.

Ginger Stache: It's always the real stuff. But, Katie, also, you do a lot on Instagram about style and design. And so, there's just a lot in your life. Mother to indigo, she is the cutest little thing.

Katie Torwalt: Thank you. I think so.

Ginger Stache: She is a sweetie. So, I thought a great way to kinda start this is to talk about what style is. And I love this definition. It says that style defined is a manner of doing something, a distinctive appearance, typically determined by the principles according to which something is designed. So, when we look at style, we look deeper than just the surface. You know, it's just not what we choose to put in a room or to put on us. It needs to reflect how we're designed. So, I love taking this opportunity to look at the design that God has put into us, the detail, and the love. So, I don't know, I'm so excited about this topic.

Erin Cluley: Did you tell Katie how nervous we all were about, like, what to wear today?

Ginger Stache: Oh yeah, we talked about it.

Erin Cluley: We had a emailed thread. I said, "I feel like my outfit has to be on point because Katie Torwalt's coming. And she's..." everything that you just said.

Katie Torwalt: That's generous, you guys. That's very generous. We've been working on our...

Jai Williams: My idea was just like, "Well, just can it all. Let's just wear pj's".

Katie Torwalt: We could have.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. I said, "Let's just go completely basic and just wear trash bags. You know, just like, let's just start with nothing.

Erin Cluley: Build from there.

Ginger Stache: Have you always had a love for style, design? Where'd it come from?

Katie Torwalt: I think so. Even as a little girl, my poor mom, you know, I would change my outfits three times a day, kind of thing. And I think I realized, just growing up, it was just part of my expression. We write music, we lead worship. I definitely would consider myself just an artist, in general, and it's just one of the expressions that I think God put in me. And that goes for style, like what we wear every day to like the space that we live in, to honestly, even food, like cooking and stuff like that, that are just... Different seasons.

Ginger Stache: You just lost me on that one. I'm sorry.

Katie Torwalt: Okay. Just different seasons where that kind of expression is maybe more what I'm focused on, and I love it. I don't know. And especially, if it's a way that I can express myself that can bless the people around me, whether that's the space that we create or like my mom is... We're really close and I love like, just helping her feel good about herself. And putting stuff together for... We travel a lot, so, packing. I hate packing, actually, to be honest, I hate it.

Ginger Stache: It's my favorite thing either.

Katie Torwalt: Putting outfits together that will... That you'll feel great in that day. That you just don't have to think about it, and it can just help you have a happy day that day, and feel confident, I love doing that for my friends, or my mom, or just different people in my life, and then myself too. I try to think that way.

Ginger Stache: Well, you said you got to design for your mom, right? You got to make a space for her.

Katie Torwalt: I did.

Ginger Stache: It meant a lot to you.

Katie Torwalt: It really did. It was something I always wanted to do. She is totally a homebody. She loves to be at home. She helps us with our little girl. And so, when we travel, we actually built a space as part of our house that both my parents live in, like a little mother-in-law unit. And it overwhelmed her. The process of it started to overwhelm her, I think, the designing aspect of it. And so, I got to do it, and I loved it. So, it ended up being this surprise for her. And I got to pick out, you know, some finishes and stuff like that, that I thought that she would like. And then I got to show her at the end the finished product, bring her down to see this new space for her.

Ginger Stache: Oh, nice. The big reveal and everything.

Katie Torwalt: Oh, my gosh! It was my own hgtv kinda moment.

Jai Williams: Move! That! Truck!

Katie Torwalt: It was so fun. It was so fun. And she loves it. And now, she, of course, even made it more her own with her own stuff and everything. But it was something I always wanted to do. So, I loved that part of style. I love that part of designing our life. And yeah, I think, I've been this way probably since I was a kid. It's just something that I think that God created me this way to see this way or something.

Ginger Stache: One thing I really appreciate is what design makes us feel. To me, it's so much more about the feeling that it gives us, even than, just what it looks like. Because whether it's when somebody walks into my home or walks into the women's conference that we're all working on, the question is always: what do we want people to see and feel? What do we want to point people to when they're in those spaces? So, I think it's a great opportunity to, you know, make people feel comfortable, or to make them feel inspired, or to make them feel, you know, creative, whatever it might be. But in all of it, to point people to Christ... To what matters most.

Erin Cluley: I think that's interesting 'cause you think of style as like something personal for me. My style of what I like to wear is for me. So, I look good. But, like, what you guys are saying is, it's actually, a tool for me to give back to other people. Like, the whole point of it is to point people back to Jesus, you know? And you kind of don't think of it that way, but that is the whole point of it. So, yeah, that's interesting.

Katie Torwalt: Yeah, I think it does evoke something in us just to see something colorful. You guys do... Like you said, I got to come to a lot of the conferences, we get to lead worship there, and you guys really do a great job of creating something that's visual that is... That evokes something in you, that creates joy, that just brings you into the whole experience, ready to receive from God. And we do that with our space. We do that with... Part of our creation, in our spaces, even just creating a place of worship, in our home. And so... But it is, you know, I try to keep the house clean. I try to keep the space... I have a lot of white in our house, too, because my mind is kind of wild. And I like having that blank slate so I can create from that place. But it's like, that's different for everybody what that looks like. And I love seeing how... I love seeing people's spaces I love... And even in personal style, just because you can kind of see that reflection of how their brain works, how God created them to be through those things and the expression of that and, so.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, and really what it all points back to is making the most of what God gives us. And so, you know, that's where you talk about being a good steward of what God gives us, and just pointing people to him through making the very most beautiful thing out of whatever he gives us that we can. So, we're gonna start, right now, with Joyce talking about what living a good life looks like. And then, we'll be back to give you some specific things that you might want to consider, or maybe not, you know, do your own thing, about what is in and what is out, right now.

Joyce Meyer: To be honest, the real call on my life is and always has been to help people, once they're saved, grow and mature so they can have the life that Jesus died to give them. He didn't die just so we could get saved and someday go to heaven, and spend 50 years here miserable. "The thief comes only to steal, to kill, to destroy. But Jesus said, 'i came that you might have and enjoy your life, and have it in abundance, to the full until it overflows'". Amen? And I'm not talking about enjoying life when it's time for a vacation or when you get to go shopping. I'm talking about I believe that God offers us an ability to enjoy everyday, ordinary, plain old life. You know, if the only time we can enjoy ourself is when something exciting is going on, then we're gonna miss a lot of joy in life. So, how many of you are ready to just dig a little bit deeper and really learn more?

All right. Colossians 1, verse 1, "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus (the Messiah), by the will of God". So, boy, we should underline "By the will of God" because if we're not doing what we're doing because we really believe it's God's will for us to do it, how can we ever do it well or how can we enjoy it? You say, "Well, how can I know if I'm in the will of God"? Well, to be honest, it's not all that hard. I mean, God is not gonna give you something to do that's gonna make you miserable all the time. I believe that if we're in the will of God, whatever we're doing, number one, we're going to be pretty good at it. I don't think that we should have to spend our life feeling like we're trying to put a round peg in a square hole all the time.

You know, I'm very comfortable doing what I'm doing. I've had to learn things about, you know, not getting up here and trying to impress people, and so on and so forth. Although I work hard, what I'm doing is not hard for me to do because I'm in the will of God doing it. Now, if you're really designed to be a stay-at-home mom and that's where God wants you, and you're off trying to do something else because you think that that's what you need to do to be a modern woman, you're gonna be miserable. We all have to get around to saying, "I wanna do what God wants me to do. I'm not gonna compare myself with anybody else. I'm not gonna compete with anybody else. I just want to be in my place, doing what God wants me to do".


Ginger Stache: Isn't that the key to this whole thing? It's knowing that God designed us for a purpose and not trying to be something else. So, we're gonna talk more about comparison. But just briefly, knowing that fact that God designed me in mind, you know, with a plan and a purpose and wonderful things, that if I can stay within that and not think, "I need to be like her, or her, or her," then it changes the way we see ourselves and the spaces that we create, whether it's, you know, our own personal style, our life around us, our family, whatever it may be.

Erin Cluley: I think that's why it's so important that you even think about this topic, in general, because otherwise you can just live your life like it's just happening to you without purpose. And that's when I know for myself, I can get wrapped up in what other people think of me because this is happening to me, and my perspective is different. But when you are purposefully looking to see like why God put these things in you and, "How is he designing in my life"? Then I think it helps take some of that away. 'cause you're living... "I'm living to do what I'm called to do, not, like, "Why can't I be like, Katie"? I wanna look cute like Katie, but I want to do it the way that God made me to do, you know? And I think that it's really important to do that on purpose.

Jai Williams: It's important to follow the design like, and I've learned to grow into that more. Like, follow, the design... The original design that God had for me. Like, I remember being a little girl and I used to love the show, "Punky Brewster". And so, I used to always wear, like, neon things.

Ginger Stache: I can see you as a little punky.

Jai Williams: I was like a little punky Brewster, like, that was my girl. I wanted to be her, like. And so, I would wear, like, one neon pink sock, one neon green sock. And my mom used to always just be like, "I just give up. Like, I give up".

Ginger Stache: "Let her go".

Jai Williams: But then, for church, I would wanna wear the big ruffle socks and I wanted to have the big, like, beautiful church dresses. I wanted... My hair was pretty long so we used to roll it and I'd have curly hair. But then, at school, I wanted to wear, like, corduRoys and like turtlenecks and cardigans, like, prim and prop... I had... But when I got older, you know, of course, I started seeing other people's style and didn't wanna do that. But as I am in my mature... More mature ages now, I'm embracing that even more. Like, God is giving...

Ginger Stache: You're going back to punky Brewster.

Jai Williams: I'm going back to punky Brewster.

Ginger Stache: Good for you.

Jai Williams: I mean, because I understood... I understand now that all of those different ways of how I like to dress, like, for this, I do tend to dress more conservatively, you know. But if you see me out, you know, in the streets, I'm probably going to have on joggers and sneakers, like, some air forces, or yeezys, or, you know, like, I'm... But then, when I'm doing worship, I might be a different look. But that's not me playing a role into other things. I don't have a specific style. That's how God made me. And I'm embracing that unique design that he has for me, that I like to do different things. And I'm okay with it, the same way I like to change my hair a lot.

Katie Torwalt: Listen, you're talking to the right person because, like I said, three outfits a day, as a kid, you know. And I think I... I wrestled with that, too, just feeling like, well, maybe I'll be misunderstood in this area if I dress like punky Brewster, this time. Which, I didn't really watch punky Brewster. So, I'm not... I'm trying to picture, what does that look like? But the neon, it paints a picture.

Jai Williams: Neon, she wore like, scruffy jeans, t shirts, ponytails are kind of like...

Katie Torwalt: She's kinda like, out there, like wild.

Jai Williams: Yeah, I loved her. She was a rebel.

Katie Torwalt: Yeah, I get it. Because, yeah, I think there's just like... It's different parts of yourself that you're expressing. You wanna try out different stuff. For me, style, and this whole thing, it's fun. It's part of just the way my brain thinks. It's just one of the things, but it's not everything. And I think there is different seasons where, because of comparison, or because of fear of being misunderstood, or whatever, I would adapt, maybe, to a certain way that I thought was like, "Well, everyone else will be looking like this or everyone else will be doing this, so, I should do that". And I realized, like, it just wasn't... I wasn't really expressing that part of myself that was truly, authentically me, that God created. And now, I think growing a little older, I've realized, "Oh, this is just who I am". And like, everybody won't want to do that because that's not how God created them to be. And so... But it's really important. And then, I love what Joyce touched on too, just like, even with the stay-at-home mom thing, or just embracing not only who you are, but the season that you're in, 'cause that has really changed. Becoming a mom, you know, you kinda go through that phase where you're like, you're well... Everything changes, your body changes, your lifestyle changes so drastically in those early stages of motherhood with your small child. It does not matter... There's spit up on anything you wear. It doesn't matter, right?

Ginger Stache: It's a look.

Katie Torwalt: It's a look. And you embrace it. And you're like, "Do I wear black or white or, you know, what's the less showing color"? But... And then, now, it's changed again. And it's that quick. Like, you know, I'm in a phase now where my little girl's four and I don't have to think about the spit up. But it's just a picture that you realize, you know, there's just seasons of life for stuff, there's seasons of life where you're on-stage leading worship, there's seasons of life where you're going to the grocery store more and you're at home with the kids, or whatever. And how that looks is different, and just being authentically you and true to yourself during that time, who God created you to be and celebrating that in every way and stewarding it is what feels... You're gonna feel different that way. You're gonna feel aligned differently that way. And I've definitely noticed that for myself that it feels...

Ginger Stache: We all have to figure ourselves out, don't we? I mean, I've tried some crazy, crazy things and... Because I do enjoy being, you know, an individual.

Katie Torwalt: Love that side of you, Ginger, by the way. I love it. I don't think I knew Ginger was so creative and fun until we spoke a few times into some of the conferences or something. And we showed up last time, the last conference we were at, and we had matching, kind of wild shoes. Like my shoes were a little bit wild for a Joyce meyer conference. But I looked down and Ginger had the same shoes on.

Ginger Stache: I loved it.

Katie Torwalt: I was like, you know what? We get each other.

Erin Cluley: I could see it, working for you a few years ago... Well, not a few years ago. It was like 12 years ago.

Ginger Stache: It's a few now, yeah.

Erin Cluley: It left an imprint, this moment. So, I was in your office waiting for a meeting...

Ginger Stache: Oh, no. I'm a little bit nervous about this moment is.

Erin Cluley: Some of 'em, I don't share. You walked in and you had black jeans on. And your sock was over the jeans, and you had these fabulous black boots on, like, combat-ish. And I was like, "She put her jeans in the sock. Okay. Okay. Noted".

Ginger Stache: Sounds kind of bad.

Erin Cluley: So, I go home, and I was like, "I gotta find those shoes".

Katie Torwalt: She's immediately...

Erin Cluley: Yeah, I did!

Jai Williams: Tucking all of her jeans in.

Erin Cluley: I waited a couple of days. I didn't wanna look like I was like obviously trying to copy, but I did. And I've got some boots that were different enough, but still had the same... I could accomplish the same goal. So, I... Like, you've just always been very good at that.

Katie Torwalt: It stuck out.

Ginger Stache: Well, I remember looking at other people who are much more like, classic and just beautiful, and thinking, "I need... That is what I should be doing, instead". And just even thinking about trying to emulate that, it just never felt like me. It never seemed...

Erin Cluley: Square peg in a round hole.

Ginger Stache: Exactly. It never seemed exactly right. And I love that God gives us the leeway to try different things, see how it works for us. When we look at design, I love this definition now, of design, and it says to intend for a definite purpose, to assign in thought or intention, a purpose or plan of action. God designed each one of us just like that with a purpose and a plan of action. And if I didn't have a little bit of that individual-ality... Individual, I can't even say the word individuality. Ladies overlapping voices: individuality. But you know, he gives us all a different spark for what he wants us to do. And I just really wanna encourage everybody with that. Just be you. Because when I try to be somebody else, it doesn't work.

Jai Williams: It's not fulfilling.

Ginger Stache: It's not meant to be.

Jai Williams: It's really exhausting. It is not fulfilling. And like, the thing that I finally, you know, wrap my mind around is like, God is the ultimate Creator. He is like the Creator. He knows...

Ginger Stache: Such creativity.

Jai Williams: Such creativity. Think of the entire world, all of us look different. No snowflake is the same. He knows every hair on our heads that we either buy or grow out of our heads, like, whatever. He knew I was gonna add hair to my head. He knew that. So, I'm just sayin' like...

Ginger Stache: And he's still got the numbers.

Jai Williams: He still knows all of the numbers. Even I don't know... He knew which bag I was gonna get. He knew!

Erin Cluley: He keeps a tab.

Ginger Stache: You keep him busy.

Jai Williams: "Five thousand, five million". Sorry God.

Katie Torwalt: Updated counts every day.

Jai Williams: Updated counts. "Every two weeks you gonna get a new head count, sir". But I'm saying, he knows this. And so, like to stifle our creativity with our... With the way that we dress, the way that we do our hair, the way... I mean, some people look at it is so superficial, and so... But I'm telling you, like, nothing gets me in the mood to, like, work out other than like a cute, little, workout outfit. You know, like...

Erin Cluley: It matters.

Jai Williams: Like, the way you dress. I know when I'm in a slump... And it's okay to be in that, like, when I'm in the oversize t-shirt and... Or yoga pants all day, and it's like, I know... I need that time. I just want to eat ice cream and cry or, you know, or just sit there and veg out and watch Netflix.

Ginger Stache: That's a style.

Jai Williams: That's a style, but I think we don't... As Christians, we don't always put enough... Not emphasis, but we don't like encourage people like, "Get up," like, because it really does change your mood. When I'm ready to work out, if I have a cute, little outfit, I'm gonna actually wanna maybe put that on, you know? And maybe, get on a treadmill, you know? I'm gonna do something. I'mma at least go to the grocery store with my cute, little workout clothes. So, that's a step. But I'm saying it does really... Style and design plays more of a role in our everyday lives and emotions, and feelings, and who God made us to be, than I think we talk about. So, I'm super grateful we're talking about it because I think it's really gonna help people, you know, to hear that.

Ginger Stache: I do too. Katie, what's something that you would say is a thing that you're looking at right now? What's something... Whether it's personal style, home decoration, whatever it may be. What are you likin'?

Katie Torwalt: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I love how colorful this set is because I think, like, even like you were describing, you know, there was a season where I probably thought, "Okay, let's go more neutral". And with travel, you know, it's easier to just pack clothes that are very neutral, a lot of black. And I've been loving color, the last couple of years. And I think you just see it more. I think, practically, what makes it a little more wearable is there's a lot of like monochromatic things that you can buy. And so, it makes you be able to put an outfit together a little more like, simply without having to put too much thought and effort into it.

Ginger Stache: It's okay to wear all one color.

Katie Torwalt: It is, it is. And it's so fun. And for me, it's just like an easy hack for travel because I'm like, "These clearly go together". I don't have to wake up at any time and be like, "How do I... Where do I find the pants for this? Like what goes"? And so, that's like, just a really practical, fun thing for me. And I mean, honestly, I think even like, you talking about like... The counterfeit version for me of creativity is when I'm doing it from a place to impress or not be authentic for myself. But I mean, I'm really inspired just in general with God's creation, with nature, with outside. I think, one of the things I even do in my house is I try to make it feel like some of the places in creation. The ocean is one of the places I love to go. If it feels that light, beachy, like, peaceful feeling, hence the all white, you know, that's... I'm trying to emulate that because that's something that has inspired me now, that God created...

Ginger Stache: It makes you happy.

Katie Torwalt: To create myself. And it makes me happy, and it evokes something in me. And I love that. I love that about God that I think that the detail to things that he knew would bless us, that hopefully we steward well, some stuff we haven't stewarded as well. And I wanna do that now, in myself, in my space, in my life, with how I wear, with how I take care of my body, all those different things. But those are just very like, practical things that, you know... Creativity, sometimes, can be this vague, like, "Oh, I don't know, I'm just inspired by..." like, very swirly kind of language and everything. But really it comes down to, yeah, just being ourself, stewarding what we have, celebrating who God created us to be, and then highlighting those things that we're thankful for. And so, for me, that's my day-to-day creative process, my day-to-day measuring stick with, "Am I doing those things? Am I being myself? Am I taking care of what God's given me in this season and making it the most beautiful and special that it can be to bless others with"? And if I'm doing those things then I feel like in alignment, I'm where I'm supposed to be, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing that season. And it goes all the way up and down the spectrum, you know, with house, space, myself, my child, my family, so.

Ginger Stache: And part of what we create, especially our home, is to make a place that our family's comfortable. And I remember, as my kids were getting older, I wanted to create that place that the other kids wanted to come. You know, so it wasn't about they wanted to go somewhere else. It's "Bring 'em in, bring 'em to our house". You know, we want it to be a place where the neighborhood feels something different, too. And praying... This might sound a little wackadoodle, I don't know. But...

Erin Cluley: I'll tell you.

Ginger Stache: Ok, thank you. I know you'll be honest. Thank you. No, part of when I am thinking about design and creating color and how I want to organize a room in our home, I pray that whatever I do creates that place of peace and joy, and that the Holy Spirit is a big part of it. So that when people walk in, I don't care as much about what they see, as about what they feel, but I know that they go hand in hand. So, prayer is a big part of design, I think.

Erin Cluley: It's true. 'cause when you walk into your house, you do feel that.

Ginger Stache: Comfortable, I hope.

Erin Cluley: Absolutely.

Jai Williams: It's very comfortable. But it's also a reflection of who you are. Like, it's... You know, you see, it looks like a museum at certain points, like, because you see stuff from...

Ginger Stache: It's well lived in though.

Erin Cluley: Artifacts.

Jai Williams: Artifacts from like, no, from like, what you've... Where you've traveled.

Katie Torwalt: Oh, wow.

Jai Williams: Yes, you can see that. And so, in certain parts look like the some of the places that she traveled. But then, you know, like, Ginger's favorite color, if you haven't noticed, is blue. So, her... Like, her like, sitting area is like, very blue. Like even the books go into like a... It's a color wheel that goes... It's so pro... It's like, "Aaahhh..." like everything is so like... She's so like, de... It's very intentional. But then, something that I liked initially... Instantly when I first came over your house was something I used to do, like, also like her candles. She has certain candles in certain spaces that, you know, give you a certain vibe when you walk through, so, yeah.

Erin Cluley: One thing interesting in this, I am not good at this part of it. I love fashion and style for clothing. I can see things, in my mind, to put together. I could not decorate a house for the life of me. And I think that's just an honest, important thing to admit.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, that's fine.

Erin Cluley: We don't all have a mind like that. But I appreciate those of you who do, because it helps me kind of like learn like, "I can get a candle and I can pray, and I can find a picture on Pinterest that I really like and just copy it".

Ginger Stache: Exactly.

Erin Cluley: So, I will go to target, and I'll say, "Okay, this pillow looks really close. So, I think I can do that one. And I can maybe find a basket. No, there's not a basket there. I can't get a basket". But I think it's utilizing help, it's real helpful, in how you do this stuff.

Jai Williams: But your space is definitely... It's conducive to your lifestyle.

Ginger Stache: Exactly.

Jai Williams: Like, when I come over there, it looks like you have two little kids. It doesn't... It's still designed cute.

Erin Cluley: I don't know if that's like, a compliment.

Ginger Stache: It is, though.

Jai Williams: For me, it is, because it's very welcoming. Like when I walk in...

Erin Cluley: Oh, that's good.

Jai Williams: You know, like... It's like, a pizza in the oven and there's kids playing, and toys, and there's another kid writing on, you know, like coloring or something. So, yeah.

Erin Cluley: That's true.

Jai Williams: Your daughter's room?

Erin Cluley: Yeah, I just... I think my point is that it's okay that if it doesn't come natural to you, like if you feel like it's not part of you...

Jai Williams: No, I get what you're saying. I wanted to affirm you, to let you know that...

Erin Cluley: Thank you.

Jai Williams: You're doing a good job. And your kids are thrilled.

Katie Torwalt: Yeah, you're living in your house, which is so important. And perfection is not the goal.

Ginger Stache: That's really important!

Katie Torwalt: It is not the goal of style, at all. And, you know, excellence is not perfection. I think, you doing... Creating the space that suits your family, that serves your family, that you find your peace in, that you meet with God in, like, you're like, "I can pray. Maybe, I can't afford a new throw right now, but I can definitely, like, create an atmosphere in here". And especially, as a worship leader, as like, a songwriter, I mean, that is really what it comes down to. Somebody's going to walk in my house and feel the presence of God. I don't care if it's... I mean, I have cared if it was clean or not. I would like it to be clean. I would like it to be comfortable for people as much as possible, but nothing replaces that. And even during the pandemic, how much did we all emphasize our homes? Just creating that space where we were like, you know, "This is a haven, this is a place for the presence of God, and me to meet during this time. This is a place of, yeah, peace and safety". And so, it was... I think that was actually something that I took out of that season that was like very valuable that I had... That has stuck with me. Even as we got back on the road, even as the conferences have started back up, that we're like, "No, there's something about our home's..." decoration or not, style or not, that we are able to create, on purpose, intentionally, to meet with God and have a home and our family like, celebrated here, so. But yes, small children... We talked about it earlier. But I said I like a lot of white, but everything in my house is washable, magic eraser. And everything comes off, all our furniture comes off and can go in the washing machine.

Ginger Stache: That's an important secret to know.

Katie Torwalt: I feel like I need to break the secret on that because I'm like, no, I have a small child, we have kids over, like, almost every day of the week. And honestly, I love vintage stores. I love thrift stores.

Jai Williams: Love it.

Katie Torwalt: You can find stuff, especially furniture, and like decorations, like vases and glassware and stuff like that, that is really inexpensive. And you can create that feeling. Cut some branches from outside and put it in a vase from goodwill. I mean, I'm just breaking it down.

Ginger Stache: I love this. I love this. I've done all this.

Katie Torwalt: Honestly, it can create... Like, you'd be surprised, just putting this live branch from outside and lighting a candle next to it and you're like, "Oh, I feel so relaxed. This is blessing me".

Erin Cluley: Didn't you make something with a noodle.

Katie Torwalt: I did. A pool noodle.

Erin Cluley: I watched that on your...

Katie Torwalt: During the pandemic. That's so random.

Ginger Stache: What did you make with a pool noodle?

Katie Torwalt: I love that you know that.

Erin Cluley: I'm like, "I think that's a noodle"!

Katie Torwalt: I think something happens... With me, when we had to go off the road during that last couple of years, all this other stuff started happening to me because I just needed this expression, you know? So, yeah, I was on... I think I was on Instagram or something, and I saw somebody make, out of out of pool noodles, they wrapped the noodles and made this rainbow, like, headboard.

Ginger Stache: How fun!

Katie Torwalt: So, I actually made it for my daughter, for her room. It's like this big, it's huge. And it has like a white, fuzzy look to it. And it's like, made of pool noodles, you guys.

Ginger Stache: That is great!

Katie Torwalt: Anyways, I don't recommend... It took me way too long, but it was great during that time.

Jai Williams: I literally love the craftiness of that. And like, you guys know, that I don't care about, like, where I get my stuff.

Erin Cluley: No, you don't.

Ginger Stache: You're good at finding stuff.

Jai Williams: I do not care. I mean, I like some... There's like, we say, we talk about seasons, but like, there are times when I have like, you know, the resources to do designer things, you know, and those are great. But there are also seasons where I will get a shirt... I'll get a shirt from cvs. I've found some...

Erin Cluley: Our Christmas gifts were from Walgreens.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, Walgreens. We're like, "Jai, where'd you get that shirt"? And she says, "Walgreens".

Jai Williams: I got it from Walgreens. So, I got them one, okay? And they've worn it on the show, just so you know, it's that good, you can't tell. And I have found some like, leggings, like, even on the end caps of grocery stores, like, I don't care. Most of my blazers come from the thrift store, like...

Katie Torwalt: It's a good spot for blazers.

Jai Williams: I mean, most of them do because people, like, love to give those away, I guess. But I get most of my blazers from thrift stores. I shop at a store, really inexpensive store, called rainbow. I'll buy things there. But like, it's a mixture of things. It doesn't... And how you put it together. It's how you put it together. It's not how much things are, it's how you put it together, and use your creativity to really express who you are and who God's made you to be. So, yeah. Like, don't... Like, if you have a headboard with pool noodles then fine.

Ginger Stache: Go for it. And if there's a lot of water, you'll be in good shape.

Erin Cluley: That's true. You're ready.

Katie Torwalt: It's a multi-dimensional decoration.

Erin Cluley: That's some style, right there.

Ginger Stache: Katie, you said something about being good stewards of what God gives us. You know, it's not about just wasting money, or anything like that, but to find ways to make things beautiful on a budget. That's a great talent.

Erin Cluley: It is.

Ginger Stache: That's important.

Katie Torwalt: I think that's so fun. I like the challenge of that actually, too. I get where you're coming from, 'cause I'm like, yeah, there's been seasons where it is: go cut a branch down. And then, that's fine. And it's actually... It's actually fun. There's a blessing in that and there is, that same feeling of like, "Oh, this is just part of who God's created me to be, how I see things," and doing that feels... Yeah, feels like it fulfills that.

Ginger Stache: But that helps us when we feel like, "I can't afford what I see on other people". We don't need to feel that way. Or even, what you were saying, you know, if I'm not a designer, you know, that doesn't matter 'cause God has put so many other wonderful things in each one of us. So, we're gonna go back to Joyce and we're gonna concentrate a little bit more on this problem with comparison that so many of us deal with. And I think we can't talk about this topic without putting down comparison right from the beginning. So, let's see what she has to say.

Joyce Meyer: Now, what about comparison? Are you, right now, or have you ever compared yourself with somebody else? How they look compared to how you look? What their personality is compared to your personality? One of the people I compared myself with was my pastor's wife, because she was just so sweet. And, you know, I didn't think I had a sweet personality. I was a little more like, you know. And especially, back then, I'm talking 40 years ago. Now, I have changed a lot. And I think I'm a lot sweeter now, than I was then. But I wouldn't say that I'm just a real sweet, soft-spoken person. I am not like that. And if I try to be, it even doesn't seem right to other people.

Mark Twain said, "comparison is the death of joy". Boy, I like that. Think about that. "comparison is the death of joy". In other words, if you're comparing yourself with someone else, then you can't have joy. You can't compare your abilities to their abilities. Your gifts and talents to theirs. The way you look. What your career is. How much of the Bible you read every day. How you pray. You know, sometimes even I listen to other people talk about their prayer life, and this and that, and something else. And you know, they had a spiritual dream. And you know, well, I have crazy dreams. Every once in a while, maybe I get one that I think is from God. But most of the time, they just don't make any sense at all. But I've learned a long time ago, that I cannot compare myself with other people, not spiritually, not physically, not mentally. I know people that I think are much more intelligent than I am. But that doesn't mean that you're not gifted. We're all different. And I'll tell you, God loves variety. You know, you're all valuable.


Ginger Stache: That's a lot of peace, right there. That God loves us no matter what we are putting on our bodies. He loves us no matter how we fail. But he's designed us with specific, wonderful things in mind, and that helps so much 'cause we talk about comparison... Like, we were talking earlier about how, you know, jeans have been high-waisted and that just makes me happy.

Jai Williams: So happy.

Ginger Stache: I know, and now, they're going back down. You know, tops are coming up and pants are going down. And I... It's not goin' to be that way for me. "Pants are going down," sounded bad, didn't it? The high-rise pants are going lower.

Katie Torwalt: The waist is going.

Ginger Stache: Yes. So, you know, that may be what style does, but that's not going to be what Ginger does, because I've gotta do what works for me and, you know, for my body and for my age, and all those different things that we have to think about. If we try to compare ourselves, honestly, we're gonna look ridiculous, in the end.

Erin Cluley: That's true. I remember, like, in middle school, specifically, "Oh, we wear black necklaces, now. Okay, I gotta get that black choker necklace".

Jai Williams: Oh, yeah. The stretchy one?

Ginger Stache: That looked like a tattoo?

Jai Williams: I loved that thing!

Erin Cluley: And it goes with every outfit.

Jai Williams: It did.

Erin Cluley: "Oh, now, we don't wear those. Okay, now, I need to get a shell necklace because that's what's cool. And I need that thing that goes in your hair that pulls it back".

Ginger Stache: Puka shells.

Erin Cluley: Yes!

Katie Torwalt: Oh, that comb, headband thing.

Erin Cluley: The comb headband. "Oh, wait, now, we wear butterflies in our hair," which now, we do again. But that's exhausting. Like, I remember, as a kid thinking, "I can't..." like, "I can't keep up". And as an adult, growing into my own and feeling like, "No, I like my bellbottom pants, but I do like them to cover up the pooch I now have as a mom". I'm not gonna follow all of the things. And I'm not gonna strive. I'm gonna be where the peace is.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. Katie, have you had that, like, "This is what a worship leader wears," you know, "This is what I need to look like"?

Katie Torwalt: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this crosses over into, like, every area of my life. And we talk about it. A lot of my friends, we'll talk about this pretty candidly all the time because we are in this new thing with social media, with filters on social media, with reality tv, that's not really reality, like we talked about. And what does that look like? What does it look like to be a mom in 2022? What does it look like to be a worship leader? What is it... ? And the comparison game is just crazy. It's so out of hand. And I think it's really subconscious sometimes, too. You don't realize that you're doing that. And actually, it just really leaves you feeling very unsatisfied and does not promote thankfulness or gratitude in yourself. Like you're talking about with the quote it's just like, there's not a lot of joy to be found in that. And I always am here for like, being the best version of yourself, and taking care of yourself, and celebrating what you have, and making what you have beautiful, but at the same time, there is a line of unhealthiness where you don't realize you're actually comparing to somebody else. This was never an attainable thing for you in this season or is healthy for you or is how God created you to be. You're actually, subconsciously, comparing to somebody else that God has called to something else, that he wants something else from, that they're doing other things. That it... Just in every... Genetically they're a different person than you. And it's not you, in health and wholeness, it's actually somebody else. And I think, even as... Yeah, as a worship leader on stage, in every way, I mean, I've toned it down, I've made it louder, I've done it all, a lot of the time, subconsciously, not realizing, "Oh, I tried to adapt myself to what I thought would be expected of me, or what people would want, or what would come across the best way in this environment". And like you said, there's not a lot of joy in it. And there's not a lot of fulfillment, because then you realize, "I'm not being me. I'm not being... God didn't ask this of me and I'm doing something else". You know, and so, it really has been a journey for me that I think, I still, candidly, am fully on. But especially, with comparison in our work, with being artists and everything, I think that God has really challenged me to find inspiration in other people, but not to find comparison.

Ginger Stache: Oh, that's great.

Katie Torwalt: And it really is a limitation for me, when I start to compare, I have instantly really stopped growing as myself. And if I can find inspiration in those people, and I can truly celebrate other people in areas that they're strong in that I'm not strong in, it actually grows something in me, and it frees something in me, to be more myself. And that's what I wanna be for other people. I want people to be around me and not wanna be me, but wanna be more them, want to be more free. And that's something that, I think, I can only do as myself.

Erin Cluley: Have you figured out how to do that? Like, where's that healthy line for you, where it's inspiration versus comparison?

Katie Torwalt: It's fully a heart thing. So, that's how it always is, right? You can't tell why someone is doing something. Only God knows that. Only the person and God knows their heart. And so, even, when you see somebody being too much, or not enough, where what you would think, "Oh, they're very..." whatever, we don't know that about that person. We don't know the motivations of their heart, only them and the Holy Spirit know. And, I know, I know. But, of course, that line is very fine. And there's certain times where, you know, I think it's just... It's a sensitivity to the Holy Spirit. Like, you know, in your heart, there's a conviction that comes on you when you know you're doing something for the wrong reason, even if it's the right thing.

Ginger Stache: Those things of, "Who's looking at me, and what might they think," which shouldn't be our motive. It really should be, "Am I doing what God's asking me to do? Am I comfortable in my own skin"? That is so important.

Katie Torwalt: And you judge other people much more harshly, I find... And I find this about myself, when I know I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing. When I'm walking in freedom, when I'm not being authentic to who I am, I judge other people for the same thing. And the truth is, there is a lot of judgment, nowadays. There is a lot of people with a lot of opinions, they love to share them. And... But I find for myself, 'cause that's all we can do is manage our self and free ourselves, the more free, and comfortable, and authentic I'm being, I do see the fruit of that in other people around me, that they're able to, not look like me, not be like me, but to be more themself. Even in this day of influencers or influencing people, I wanna influence people to be who God created them to be. Not to go out and do exactly what I just did, or be who I'm... You know, who I am. And so, that only happens when I'm doing what God's calling me to do in that season and be who I'm supposed to be so. But yeah, I think it's a journey that I'm probably still walking out. I'm pretty young still, and I'm definitely still figuring it out.

Ginger Stache: Well, we do go through so many seasons. You're talking about... We all have so much to learn all the time. And we go through seasons. Now, that... As a mother, it changes who you are. For me, as I'm growing older, you know, I can't dress... I don't want to dress like I did when I was in my twenties. And yet, I don't wanna look and act my age either. You know, I just wanna be who I'm comfortable as, and what I'm supposed to do. And the same for all of us. We have things that are always changing in our lives. And certainly, fashion's always changing. And so, we have to not roll with every fad, and every trend, and stay true to who God calls us to be. And in that, he lets us play. He let's have some fun in it and try some new things.

Jai Williams: Yeah. I was gonna say, like, when you were talking, like, number one, can we normalize like complimenting people? You know, like, I mean, because I think that's something that's important, and it's a missed... It's a missing art, I believe. Like, just being able to say, "Hey, girl, like, that little iridescent, little, nail polish have on is really, really cute," you know? Or like, "Ginger, those shoes are cute," and, "Your whole, little, getup is cute," like...

Erin Cluley: "The whole thing".

Jai Williams: Ok, "Your nails are cute, your hair is cute," you want more?

Ginger Stache: It's all good.

Jai Williams: I'm saying, it's good to do that because that'll also... You don't know what that person's going through and that could help them. But then, letting them know, "Girl, you look good," you know? And then, that gives them more freedom, gives you more freedom. And even if you ask like, "Where'd you get that from"? And it's okay to be inspired. I think that'll help with that barrier, too. So, yeah.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. There are a lot of things that go into how we design our life, whether it's how we choose to look, how we choose to dress, how... We love fashion, style, design. But there are these three areas of design that are like, the principles of design, and it's: hierarchy, balance, and scale. So, just talking a little bit about design...

Jai Williams: This is so technical.

Ginger Stache: It makes me so happy to talk about this stuff. Hierarchy in design, you know... But it's really about putting first things, first. When we're designing our life, we have to put first things, first. Balance, we all know how important balance is in our life. If we get our life out of balance, nothing will be right. It's not gonna look right. It's not gonna be right. It's not gonna feel right. And the other is scale. And that is what are we pointing people to? What do we want people to notice and see first? And that is Jesus in our life. So, you know, designing our life is not just about aesthetics. It is about trying to take what God gives us and shape it and mold it into who he wants us to be. And I love what you said. It's not about perfection because we are never gonna get there. But there is something so beautiful in each one of us, in each one of you, who are listening, right now, and as you're just listening and you're thinking, "Wow, what can I do with this, that God has given me"? There always is something spectacular that you can do with what God has... Put a big smile on your face, you know? Make sure that the joy is flowing out of you and into other people's lives. And so, I just love the opportunities that we get to talk about what God can do through all this. And Katie, thank you so much for being with us.

Katie Torwalt: This was so fun.

Ginger Stache: There's a lot more we could talk about. You were talking about anklets earlier.

Katie Torwalt: We were.

Ginger Stache: You're big into anklets, right now.

Katie Torwalt: We were talking about sweats.

Jai Williams: Chunky shoes.

Katie Torwalt: Chunky shoes. Everything... I still want everything to be stretchy after a couple years of sweatpants.

Ginger Stache: I know, pandemic changed...

Katie Torwalt: I'm like, "Is there a stretch at all"?

Ginger Stache: Stretch is still good.

Katie Torwalt: Stretch is... I'm keeping stretch. I like that.

Ginger Stache: Anything else for you guys? What are you loving, right now? Anything?

Jai Williams: Of course, like we said, always, high-waists, like...

Erin Cluley: Always and forever, the rest of my life.

Jai Williams: Always and forever, anything high-waist.

Ginger Stache: Always and forever, high-waist.

Jai Williams: Always and forever, anything high-waist.

Ginger Stache: Higher... The older you get, the higher.

Jai Williams: Next it will be a turtleneck. I don't care.

Katie Torwalt: Secured. I like it, I like it.

Jai Williams: Yeah, that's good for me.

Erin Cluley: I'm loving blazers, right now. And I'm trying to wean out my skinny jeans, to more wide legs, a little bit more... Just a little different style and approach to a denim.

Ginger Stache: That's good.

Katie Torwalt: Wide leg is cute.

Erin Cluley: It is cute.

Katie Torwalt: Wide leg... Everybody... You all look so good in a wide leg. You could have 'em crops, you could do the high-waisted, and you can have a little stretch in those and very cute.

Erin Cluley: I just cut some jeans the other night. That was really fun. They were... I just didn't like 'em, so, cut 'em. And now...

Jai Williams: You like em?

Erin Cluley: Yeah, love 'em.

Ginger Stache: Now, you love them again.

Jai Williams: Nice. Yeah.

Ginger Stache: Don't be afraid to try things. Yeah, what do you got to lose? Well, we do have an offer for you, so if you would like just a little bit of help as we're talking about designing your life in a way that honors God. We have a free audio download for you, and it's called, "Have a healthy attitude toward yourself". You have to start there. You will never look good, if your heart isn't looking good on the inside, and you're not just loving who God made you to be. And that is steps that we all have to take to be there. So, you can get that free download, right now. Go to joycemeyer.org/talkitout and it is there for you. You could also catch up on all of our episodes of the podcast. You can subscribe. We hope that you'll tell your friends about us. Leave us some really nice reviews. That'd be great. And again, katie, thank you. It's been so much fun.

Katie Torwalt: Thank you. Thanks guys, so fun.

Ginger Stache: Thank you, friends. I can't wait to see what everybody does in your fashion life. It's gonna be so fun. Bye, everybody.

Jai Williams: Bye-bye.
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