Joyce Meyer - How To Unlock Your Purpose

Ginger Stache: We are so glad you are all here. All of our friends are here, together. And we're talking about probably, what do you think? Life's biggest questions...

Erin Cluley: Yes.

Ginger Stache: For most people. Today, we're talking аbout: what is my purpose? And a part of that is, you know, what does God want me to do? And how do I hear him? And all of those questions. So, today, some big, important, lofty questions. But I think we're gonna simplify it, maybe, for people.

Joyce Meyer: Right.

Ginger Stache: And make it not quite so overwhelming. So, let me start by asking this: do you guys remember at a particular point, in your life, that you were really seeking and trying to figure out? You know, when was the time that you're like, what is my purpose here?

Erin Cluley: I remember like, right before going to college, having that conversation and question. Because, you know, when you're 17, you should know what you want to do for your whole entire life.

Ginger Stache: Of course.

Erin Cluley: So, that was a good time to talk about that. But I just remember the pressure that is put on you by the world. That you're supposed... "I need to know exactly what it is, because there is one... There's only one reason I'm here on this earth, and it's to do this one thing that I have no idea what it is". So...

Ginger Stache: That is a lot of pressure.

Erin Cluley: It is!

Joyce Meyer: It was something, I never, for some reason, really ever thought about until God called me to teach his word. And then, I knew that, that was a specific purpose that he had for me. But I really think that people make more out of it than what they should. I think that even if you get up every day and you serve the Lord with gladness, that... I feel like that if you wanna do what God wants you to do, that when he's... If he has something specific for you, he will show you. And I hope that in saying that, that it relieves some pressure off of people. Because in the Christian community, it seems like... I mean, I never thought about that until I got into a deeper relationship with God. And it seemed like that, that was all the big thing, "Well, what's your gift? And "What's God called you to do"? You know, he wants us to be. You know, and to enjoy him, and to enjoy our families, and enjoy the life that he's provided for us. And, you know, when God was ready to reveal to me that he wanted me to teach the word, he just did.

Ginger Stache: But what Erin is saying is a really good point. It does put a lot of pressure on people.

Joyce Meyer: Sure.

Ginger Stache: And how about you? Did you have...

Jai Williams: No, a hundred percent. Like when I heard you talking, and when I heard you, it's like, I thought... I think about the pressure that I had being, of course, a pastor's kid. And then, also going to a Christian school where they talked about even like not dating until... Unless you're prepared to marry that person. Like, "Is my purpose to be a wife then"? "Is my purpose to be a mom"? "Is my purpose to be..." you know, like, they talk about purpose so much. And I remember going through that, and then, also thinking about the emphasis that church, a lot of times, puts on platform and giftings. And you talk about fivefold gift, and you think about that, and that pressure of like, "Where do I fit"? And you... And I had a friend recently just post...

Ginger Stache: Well, wait, let's go back cuz you said the fivefold gifts. Some people are gonna be, "What"? You know?

Erin Cluley: That brings it back to my high school days.

Jai Williams: Like, the fivefold ministry! And I might get 'em... Some of 'em wrong. I know, preacher, teacher, what's the other one? Is it an evangelist?

Erin Cluley: I was looking at the boys when they did that in my church.

Joyce Meyer: Prophet, apostle.

Jai Williams: Prophet, apostle, yeah. It's all the fivefold gifts that are in the church. And I'm like, "Which one of 'em am I outta the five"?

Joyce Meyer: But there's a lot of other gifts too.

Jai Williams: Exactly.

Joyce Meyer: I mean, those are five and they're all key leadership positions, but there's a lot of other gifts. Organization is a gift. Giving is a gift. Encouragement is a gift. And I think a lot of... I mean, obviously, outside the Christian community, that pressure can come to. I think especially for teenagers.

Jai Williams: Yes.

Joyce Meyer: You know, it's like, "Well, what are you gonna... What do you plan to do"?

Ginger Stache: In college. Coming right out of college.

Jai Williams: Do I even go to college? Because that's my kid's, "What do I do with my life? I see my mom has so much college debt. Do I want to do that? Is that my purpose? Because I don't want that," you know. But, you know, so, it's a lot of those things. And then one of my friends recently posted he's a label executive and... For like, a Christian label for really huge gospel artists. And he just had to say, like, he said, "You know, God really impressed on my heart to encourage people to know that even though I sit on the background..." he said, "I never hit the platform". But he's one of the highest execs on the label. He's like, "You never see my face. You don't..." he's like, but... "I didn't think I was anointed because I played a background role". He's like, "But I am just as anointed as those artists that I sign, and that are super anointed that are on the platform". And that just made me think about how much emphasis we put on anointing and purpose for those that are on platforms, or, you know, are up-front. And that's some of the things, I think, that I put on myself because I knew God gave me a gift to be... To be a forerunner and up front on things, whether it be singing, speaking, whatever I was gonna do. But that put an extra pressure of being like, "I gotta be so anointed," you know? You know, and that it also made people that were my friends not necessarily feel like they were as anointed. And like, "Was my purpose just as good as that purpose"?

Ginger Stache: Sure, so many good questions. Yeah, absolutely. And it can be paralyzing. I think that's one of the things. So, we're gonna try to help everybody work through some of this. But we're gonna start with Joyce, with a little bit of teaching on what not to do. Let's start there.

Joyce Meyer: "Therefore," verse 17, "Do not be vague and thoughtless and foolish, but understand and firmly grasp what the will of the Lord is". Now, here we come down to it. Probably 50%, 60% of the church, maybe more would say, "Well, that's my problem. I just don't know what God's will is. I'm just waiting". See, there we have it. Come on, I don't even need to go any further for some of you. "I'm just waiting to see what God wants me to do". Come on. "If I could just hear from God". Well, you know what? God can't drive a parked car. Maybe, you see, you're not going in some direction. You know, waiting on God is not a ministry.

Now, the Bible talks about waiting on God, but it's not the kind of waiting that we do. It's not like waiting doing nothing to see if God ever wants you to do anything. You know, when I first felt the call of God on my life, I mean, I did anything that was available to do at my church and a lot of it wasn't right for me, I wasn't anointed for it. One of the things I did was I went out with a group of people and passed out gospel tracts on the streets of st. Louis and I hated it, hated it. I am not a street preacher. I mean, I didn't like it. And then I tried working in the nursery at church and that only lasted a week and me and the kids knew that weren't right.

I tried the helps ministry and I'm sorry, but that's not me either. I want to be helped. You know what? I'm a leader. I was born to teach and when I started opening my mouth and doing that, ah, now that worked, that worked. And see... You gotta start moving and doing something till you find what fits. And sometimes at different times in your life, maybe something you've been doing for a long time doesn't seem to be fitting right anymore.

You know what? I made a decision this past year, I'm not... Now, when I say I'm not gonna be married to anything but Dave I mean we get married to our plan. Come on. "Well, that's the way I've always done it so that's the way I've gotta do it". And especially when you're in ministry and you've been a ministry for a long time. You got this system, and you're working this system, and you're doing what you do. And, you know, you can get married to your plans and not even hear what God's trying to say to you. Listen to me, God doesn't care how long you've been doing something the same way. If he wants to change it, what you've been doing won't work anymore. Amen?

Ginger Stache: That's so good.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, a couple things I wanna say. First of all, you were talking about platform positions. When you think of all the people there are that love God, that want to be used by God, there are relatively very few of those up-front platform positions. So, people, first of all, must realize that being behind-the-scenes, those are some of the most important jobs that exist. I mean, you would say that I'm more up-front than Dave is. But I probably wouldn't even be on TV, if it wasn't for Dave. Because he just... He just kept, I mean, he would call radio stations, and call radio stations, and call radio stations, to try to get me on the radio. And then, he was really the first one that heard that I should go on TV. But then, getting more to what we were just talking about, I just think that... I really want people watching today to relax.

Erin Cluley: Yeah, that's a good word.

Joyce Meyer: And to realize that they don't have to know, right this minute. You know, to just live their life and enjoy God, and enjoy their family, and just be open to God, and do whatever needs to be done. I think that's the best way, the quickest way that you find out what God wants you to do is sometimes to find out what he doesn't want you to do, is to, you know...

Ginger Stache: Try.

Joyce Meyer: Try, just try it if it's something that you... And I also, think God's not gonna call us to do something we hate.

Jai Williams: Yeah.

Joyce Meyer: He's not gonna call us to do something that we're miserable doing. So, what do you like? What do you enjoy? What are you good at? He's not gonna call you to do something that you're not good at. I mean, I tried for one day to be my pastor's secretary and got fired.

Ginger Stache: One day!

Joyce Meyer: In the one day, they fired me.

Joyce Meyer: And it was like... I don't get fired from jobs. But God had not called me to be a secretary. He wanted me to teach. But I tried all those other things, and sometimes, I think that's good. Because then you... Once you find what fits you, it's kinda like when you go out to buy an outfit for something special, you try on all kinds of stuff. And then when you find that one thing that just looks right.

Erin Cluley: You know it.

Joyce Meyer: Like, I had on four necklaces with this outfit today before I found the one that I thought looked just right. And so, you can't... People are so afraid of failing, they're so afraid of making mistakes, that everybody wants a word from God to tell them what to do. And many times, he just wants you to get out there and try some things. Like he told Abraham, leave what you're doing and "Go to the place that I will show you". But God showed him as he went.

Jai Williams: Yeah, I think is that... Like, so freeing to hear someone that's been so... I don't know if the word is successful, but, I mean, it is successful. Like, you've been so successful in ministry and writing books and things like that, like, you've blazed a trail for so many people in ministry and women in ministry, and to hear someone that's been so successful and had such a... Has such a... You know, a fine... Like, a great foundation that's provided jobs for people, you know, it's just... And help so many people around the world, to hear that you weren't afraid to fail, like, and that you tried. Like, something you said in that teaching that really made me laugh, literally... Several things made me laugh, in that particular, like, clip was when you said like, "God can't drive a parked car". And so many people get paralyzed by the fact that they don't know what to do. So, they just sit there and wait. That's something that even I struggled with after I felt like I knew what I was supposed to do, after the divorce, cuz I realized that, like, when you said, like, when you weren't married to anything but Dave. When I was... Once I got married, I paralleled my purpose with my marriage and with my family, to the point that I lost even really listening to God on what he wanted me to do next, because everything I did was so ingrained in my family and what we were doing in ministry together, the legacy I was leaving for my daughter, it just became so much about that, that I wasn't even willing to pivot too much. So, then, after all of that changed for me and I was sitting in the house by myself, I didn't know what to do, because I'm like, my purpose, at this point in my life, had been to serve my family even when I was doing things in ministry. It was, you know, to do things with my husband, or do things for my kid to be proud of me. So, like, I've literally gone through a huge pivot in purpose.

Ginger Stache: That makes a lot of sense. I've found that there's a big difference in a plan versus a purpose. Like, I've had a lot of plans...

Erin Cluley: Oooh, say that again!

Ginger Stache: I've had a lot of plans. And... Like you're talking about, what we think is going to happen and what we're working toward. And it's important to have that. We have to have that path. But often, God's purpose is something very different than what I planned. And even if I think... You know, he's taking me there, cuz those are good things. Your plan, what you were talking about, those are good things.

Jai Williams: Yeah, but I really thought my purpose was ingrained in ministry with my ex. Like, I thought that was our purpose together. Like, you know, we knew... Like, we had prayed, and we had been planning for years to move to a certain part, you know, like, we were gonna move because we felt called to that area, to do ministry in that area. And every time we went to that area, we would feel God. And, you know, so it felt like, that was God's purpose and his will for our lives. And so, I did have a question about like, will, when it comes to like, purpose, like, the difference between perfect will and permissive will. Do like, anybody have...?

Ginger Stache: I remember hearing all that and being so confused by it. "You wanna be in God's perfect will, not his permissive will," and you're, "Ok".

Erin Cluley: We're glad you're here today, Joyce. Answer that one.

Joyce Meyer: Well, first of all, I would say that all those things that you felt, that doesn't necessarily mean that you were wrong. Because God may have a plan, but man doesn't always go along with what God has planned. But I always say that plan b can be better than plan a ever would have been, if it would have happened. So, it's not that you weren't hearing from God then. That may have been what God did want. He certainly didn't want divorce. And that wasn't something that you wanted. But that doesn't mean that God can't have a different plan for you now, that will be just as good or possibly even better than the other one was.

Jai Williams: And I believe that now. I believe that now because of the fact that I've continued to move forward. Even if the GPS, in my heart, kept saying, "Rerouting," you know, like it just felt like it kept saying, "Rerouting". I know that I'm still gonna get to whatever the destination that was put in that original GPS. I know I'm gonna get there. The route might take a little longer because of decisions that I make, other people make, you know. But it's because I'm choosing to keep moving, even when I'm, like, feeling stuck, I keep trying. You know, because I even wanted to quit doing this when I was going through that trial. Like, I didn't wanna talk about it as much. I really didn't... But I knew that God was wanting me to do it. But the encouragement that I get here, you know, of just like, "Keep going. You'll figure it out". And I'm feeling it, and I'm seeing God in it now, even when I didn't know exactly where I was going.

Erin Cluley: Sure. A few years ago, when we moved to Oklahoma and... So the job that I had here, before we left, I was managing a creative team and it was awesome. And I got to be with people every day, and I just felt fueled. And I thought, "This is my purpose. This is what I'm here to do". And then, we moved. And then, I got to do this really great, awesome thing to meet with our partners, but I was, suddenly, working alone in my room at home, and I didn't ever see anybody. And I lost that, like... I didn't know how much I fed off of other people. So, now, I'm alone and I talk to people on the phone, but that's not the same. And it... I was, suddenly, just like, "Who am I"? And I felt like I lost my identity. And I thought, "Maybe, we didn't hear from you". And so, what you said in that clip, just now, too, reminded me of that season that I learned what I was not to do. I learned how much I needed to be with people. I learned things I really loved, things I'm not good at. But I also learned that I needed to go through that season because it became so much about me. And I felt good when I was leading people, and I was in this room with people, and whatever, it was becoming less about what God wanted me to do, and more about how I felt good about it. That was my purpose. So, when God stripped that away from me, for that season, and it was all about me and him in that bedroom while I worked by myself, I kinda got this picture of how that's... The purpose is not what I'm doing, "Well, like, what does he want me to do"? He's the same whether I'm with a group of people or I'm alone, you know? Does that make sense? That was a lot of words.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, it does.

Jai Williams: No, it makes a lot of sense.

Joyce Meyer: Well, purposes change, too. You know, I taught a home Bible study for five years, and then, I really felt strongly that God put on my heart that he was finished with that now. And so, I thought, "Well, here we go, boy. Promotion. I'm gonna..."

Erin Cluley: "This is it"!

Joyce Meyer: Now, I'm gonna do, you know, what's really been on my heart to do. And for a whole year, I did absolutely nothing.

Erin Cluley: I bet that was a hard year.

Joyce Meyer: No door opened, and it was a very hard year. But it was probably one of the most important years in my life, although I didn't understand it, right then. And maybe, there's people watching today, and they're in a time where they just plain don't understand it. But you have to remember that you live life forward, but you understand it backward. And I look back now, and during that year, God taught me how to be myself and not somebody else. And that's where I get to one of those funny stories about, you know, my neighbor who sewed and made her family's clothes. And so, I mean, the devil just got me convinced, "You just need to settle down here, and be a regular woman". So, I got... She grew tomatoes, so I grew tomatoes. Dave always said, "You tell people, you grew tomatoes, but I grew the tomatoes".

Joyce Meyer: And I hated the sewing machine. I hated the tomatoes. Bugs came in overnight and ate my tomatoes.

Ginger Stache: "I hate those tomatoes".

Joyce Meyer: I called her, and I said... 'cause we were gonna it was time to harvest those tomatoes and we were gonna can tomatoes and... Why would... I don't know why anybody would wanna go through all that when you can go buy 'em.

Erin Cluley: They're not expensive.

Joyce Meyer: But anyway, I was being a regular woman. The thing that was funny was overnight these bugs came in, and I went out and looked at my tomatoes and they had black holes all in 'em. And I called her, and I said, "Some kind of bugs came in and ate our tomatoes". And she ran out and looked at hers and she said, "My tomatoes are fine".

Ginger Stache: Of course, they are.

Erin Cluley: Just yours.

Joyce Meyer: So, I went to God complaining, I said, "Now, wait a minute. I've prayed over my tomatoes and... Why did they eat mine and not hers"? He said, "Because I never called you to grow tomatoes". So, see, I was just trying to be something God didn't want me to be. But before he could let me be what I was supposed to be, I had to learn that I was not supposed to be somebody else. Otherwise, that would have followed me all the way through, up until now. So, if people are in a place that they just plain don't understand, God may be doing something that you'll understand five years from now or ten years from now.

Erin Cluley: That's so crazy. Because I remember, in that season, thinking, "I'm gonna be a regular lady. I'm gonna be a regular mom, who's home with her kids more, and we'd go to target, and we do regular mom things here, and we'll have playdates". And I hated it. I loved my kids. And I loved being able to see them, and it was a gift, in a way. But at the same time, I thought, "I am not made for this life". And I never felt more clearly, "I know I'm called to go out and leave them," but I... But that season taught me that, "That's ok. That my purpose is gonna look different than somebody else's". And I think I needed that confidence to walk in that.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, you know, I found the coolest thing, not too long ago. We were going through a bunch of stuff at home, and I found this folder with a bunch of stuff from college. And I had, in there, written my plan for life. Oh, my goodness. It looks...

Joyce Meyer: Your whole life!

Ginger Stache: That's... I'm a planner. That's why I say my plans are not the same as my purpose. But what I did find really interesting in all those steps that I thought I wanted to do... Cuz here's something else that's really important is that what other people tell you to do is not always your purpose or your plan. Listening to other people too much can be very detrimental. But when I first went to college, I loved TV and I wanted to study TV, and my advisors and so many people said, you know, "No, you've got these other talents, you need to go into the sciences". And so, I started like that. And I... It was not... Not a month, until I changed my major. But anyway, so then, this paper I had written down, you know, "I'm gonna work in television, I'm gonna be in New York city and," you know, "Have the big job, and I'm gonna travel all over the world, and I'm gonna to write a book about my work and my adventures, and I'm gonna serve God through all of it, and use TV for him". So, what I love about this plan is like, God gave me little glimpses of what he wanted, but he didn't lay out everything. Cuz it was so very different than what I had written out. But... And yet, he gave me some of those desires that he put in my heart. And that's why I love where it says, "Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart". So, the plan looked very different, very different in a lot of ways. But the purpose for me, I knew, was to serve God in wherever he put me. And I think that's a big part of our purpose is to, you know, honor God and to love him with all of our heart, soul, and mind, to worship him, and do what he wants us to do.

Joyce Meyer: Whatever that is.

Ginger Stache: Exactly.

Joyce Meyer: And that may be...

Ginger Stache: And it may change.

Joyce Meyer: It may change. There are different... There's different seasons that God has for us, and not one of us sitting here, or anybody watching, I mean, I think I know what I'm gonna be doing for the next ten years, but I don't know for sure. You know, things are always changing. And we're making a mistake if we... We just let this bother us too much. I mean, I think I know enough about God, by now, to know that if I want to do what he wants me to do, he will always tell me what that is when he's ready, and I don't have to... I don't have to figure that out. I think that people trying to figure it out so much, they actually end up, many times missing what God is trying to say to them. I've discovered that when God wants to say something, he knows how to make himself heard.

Ginger Stache: That's true. He finds a way, doesn't he?

Joyce Meyer: He finds a way to tell us.

Erin Cluley: So, what, practically speaking here, both of what you just said is really good. So, if you think you've heard God tell you something, like, "I feel like this is what he's calling me to do," but then that's all he gives you, like, you're gonna go teach north, south, east, and west. And then, he says, nothing else. What do you do with that? Do I just sit there in like, wait? Or what is your...

Joyce Meyer: You do what he told you to the first time he told you.

Erin Cluley: But what is it... Was it, like, really specific? Or like, what if you don't get a lot of clear direction?

Joyce Meyer: Well, I didn't have any clear direction when God said, take your ministry and go north, south, east, and west.

Erin Cluley: So, do you do the best you can with what you know?

Joyce Meyer: I just simply did what I felt to do. I started a meeting in north st. Louis, one in west st. Louis and, you know. Really, when I look back, it's like... People always wanna know, "Well, how do you do this, and how do you do that, and how do you do this"? You just start taking steps and you follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and you find out, "Well, this isn't gonna work". "Well, this is," you know.

Jai Williams: You just keep trying.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, you just keep trying...

Jai Williams: Moving forward. That's the whole moving...

Ginger Stache: And adapt, right? And that's the biggest thing that I've learned, recently, is adapting and accepting when something... When I've outgrown something. You know, and accepting it like, "Ok, like, stop trying to squeeze into those jeans. They don't fit".

Ginger Stache: Accept that fact.

Jai Williams: That season is over.

Joyce Meyer: That's good. Just buy a bigger size.

Jai Williams: Just buy a pair of jeans that actually fit. No one's gonna see the number and side, but you. And even if you don't like the number, cut it out.

Ginger Stache: That's what scissors are for.

Jai Williams: That's what scissors are for, to help you feel better about your life choices. But no, like, seriously. I've taken it even that simple to say like, "It's ok if it doesn't fit anymore". Like, not just clothes I'm talking about like, if what I used to do, doesn't fit anymore. And if it comes back, you know... And that's one of the things that I know a lot of people that have different talents and different gifts don't know which ones to use at that time. Like, it's like, "Do I sing, right now? Do I speak? Do I write? What I do"? You know, like, it's like, "What's my purpose"? All of it. He puts it, you know, the desires in your heart and the gifts, in your... You know, in you for... Because he expects a return on the investment. That's something I'm just learning to accept. And I'm like, "If I get a song that God wants me to write, I'll just write it". You know, "But if he doesn't..." because sometimes, I go through droughts where I can't... I don't even wanna listen to music, you know? So, it's like, I don't do that. And so, then I'll use a different gift that God's given me. And I am learning... One thing I know for sure, that divorce has taught me, is to not hold on to things so tightly. And...

Ginger Stache: That's good.

Jai Williams: Like and be...

Ginger Stache: It's hard.

Jai Williams: It's hard.

Ginger Stache: Yeah.

Jai Williams: But I've learned that, and I'm still learning it. But I live life a lot more eas... With a lot more ease. And, you know, and just like, "I trust that God's got a plan and as long as I'm still moving and breathing, I'm gonna keep moving forward. And even if I fail..." I'm not as afraid of failure anymore.

Joyce Meyer: Well, sometimes, a person is being led by the Holy Spirit they don't even know it.

Erin Cluley: Yeah, that's true.

Joyce Meyer: You know, you just feel like you're just going about your business, just doing this simple little thing. Maybe you, whatever, you know, you go to the store, and you don't realize that you're in the plan of God going to the store, and you just happen to run into a certain person that happens to you know... ? I mean, like, I've had people say to me, "Oh, my gosh, the very fact that I ran into you today, this is confirmation to me about this, that or, you know, something else". And so, we just say it again: everybody needs to calm down about this and just breathe a little and just be. I think God's called us to be, not to do. And if you want to do what God wants you to do, he will show you what it is. And like you said, let go of things when God's finished with them. You know, he... There may be somebody watching, right now, that your purpose right now, is to raise three kids. Well, when they're raised and grown and gone, then God, may... Probably will have you doing something else, and so.

Ginger Stache: I love so much that failure does not mean failure of purpose. When you try something, and it doesn't go the way... Like you said, there have been so many times that I thought, "God told me to do this, and yet it didn't work". But often, God is using that failure to teach me something I needed to learn or to direct me to the place I needed to be for the next thing. And so, that... I'm so grateful for that. Because failure, nobody likes it. It can be so painful. But it doesn't mean that we've missed God, always, or that we've missed our purpose.

Joyce Meyer: John Maxwell says, "You fail forward".

Ginger Stache: Right, exactly.

Joyce Meyer: I think that all of us fail on our way toward success. You... It's just part of it. You can't... And if you are so afraid of failure then you're really never gonna find out anything about what you're supposed to do, cuz you can't... You're not gonna get it right one hundred percent of the time. And it bothers us a lot more than it bothers God.

Erin Cluley: Sure. Right before we came here, you spoke in our chapel for employees. And so, you were talking about the anointing of God. And I thought one thing that was really good in that, that stuck out to me was that, for myself as a type a personality, who just wants to go, go, go, and get stuff done, if I think I hear God saying something, I'm just gonna like, we're just gonna go. But there's a balance in that between running in my own strength to get done what I think he's calling me to or waiting, like you said, for the anointing. And if I have that on whatever this thing is, you can't miss it. You can't get away from that. So, I know, for myself, I have to watch for that balance of not getting out.

Joyce Meyer: Well, a lot of times, God calls you to do things and you don't do them for years and years and years. I mean, David was anointed to be king and... 20 years before he wore the crown.

Erin Cluley: That's a long time to wait.

Joyce Meyer: That's a long time to wait. And those years, those 20 years he waited weren't very pleasant either. I mean, king Saul was trying to kill him the whole time. So, you... Just because... You know, you can have something in your heart, but you need to not try to make it happen. You know, you can, try to go forward, but if it's obvious that God is not opening a door, you don't wanna try to kick one down. You wanna wait for his plan and purpose and timing.

Jai Williams: Yeah, because sometimes, you need that time to rest, even to prepare for what's coming next, you know? And that's something I had to learn the hard way, too. It's like... Because I would just try to keep pushing forward, like, "This is the purpose, this is the purpose," and I ruin it, you know? You know, like, not the full purpose, but I'll... I end up possibly hurting people's feelings. I end up being... Because I'm tired and grouchy and mean to people on the way, you know. And I end up Messing it up ultimately in where...

Ginger Stache: Like, we all do, yeah.

Jai Williams: And so, I think it's important for people to understand, like, if you're in that season where you're still kinda like, tick tock, tick tock, don't know what to do next, it's... Maybe it's a time for you to selah, like, have a moment of rest and not too long because I've taken that rest. But when you really know that God's called you to do something, you can't sit too long, like, because you feel like a parked car. Like, and I've felt like wasted purpose, it's like, "Come on, now. It's time to get up". But I've learned how to rest more. Like, and just... Once you go through certain things, it just makes you like... I really want God... I want, at the end of the day, when I get to heaven, for God to look at me and really say "Well done". Like, I want him to look at that list of things that he had for me to do, and like, "Hey, you did a lot of these". I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna do all of them. But, you know, like, "You did a lot of these," instead of being like, "Well, you only did a couple". Like, I know that God's put a lot inside of me and I wanna make him proud and I wanna fulfill the purpose I have in life. But, like I said earlier, I think it's so refreshing for even someone like me, that's type a, as well, that wants to get things done, and I don't like failure, I'm accepting it more now, but to hear like all of you talk about, like, how okay it is for you not to hit a home run every time.

Ginger Stache: Oh, that's not true, though. I mean, we want to feel that way. We know that it's true, but it's still, it's so painful, it hurts.

Jai Williams: I know. But I'm saying, like, to even hear the... Like, Joyce even saying that she tried to work with kids, and it didn't work. You know, like, people feel bad about that kind of stuff. And it's... But it's ok to try things and it not work, because our egos... We don't wanna fail. We wanna win. We wanna brag about the fact that we did it well, you know, so.

Joyce Meyer: Well, you know, we get into "What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do"? And first of all, God just wants us to be... He wants a relationship with us. He wants us to enjoy every day that he's given us and just be a blessing everywhere that we go. And, you know, sometimes, to be honest, that's all it is. I mean, there may be people that will live their whole life... Just be a blessing everywhere you go. Love God, worship him.

Ginger Stache: What a wonderful thing, yeah.

Joyce Meyer: Praise him. You know, I mean, that's... You know, we just get too caught up in, "What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do"? And then, what were you guys saying about God's perfect and his permissive will?

Jai Williams: That was me. Because it was something I heard a lot. Like, growing up, you know, "You wanna be in the perfect will of God, and... Versus the permissive will of God," and so.

Joyce Meyer: Well, I guess it's something we don't have to figure out, he'll tell us.

Jai Williams: See, this is why I love you. "Everything else I've grown, I mean, I guess we'll figure it out later. I don't know". I love that, though.

Joyce Meyer: I just went through so much of that, that it just about drove me crazy. I mean, and I finally learned that, you know, frustration equals works of the flesh. You know, and God wants us to work, but he does not want our works of the flesh, which is us trying to do what only God can do. And I can't make myself know what only God knows. All I can do is get up every day and love him and be his child and...

Ginger Stache: Yeah, and that's really true.

Joyce Meyer: Go about doing what I think he... I mean, a lot of things that God wants us to do are simple things. You know, they're just... They're just simple things. And, you know, if it's "Is it God's perfect will, is it permissive will"? I don't, you know.

Ginger Stache: I've heard you talking about how important it is when we're talking about wanting to hear from God and knowing our purpose and seeking him to really spend time with him, to be in the word because that's where he tells us those things. And it's not as obvious as, you know, take this job, and now go start this business, you know, whatever it may be. It's not always that specific. But something interesting, Tim and I have two daughters, and when... Especially when they were younger, not as much now, 'cause, you know, relationships change. But when they were younger, they communicated in very different ways. And so, our youngest daughter, Morgan, we knew what was always on her mind. You know, we talked a lot, and she would share what was going on in her heart. And I was able to hear all those things. Our other daughter, Taylor, was a little bit more reserved and more quiet. But what I realized was, for me, to have that connection and communication with her, I had to be there when she was ready. So, I had to be listening when she was ready to talk. And she would come into my bedroom, late at night, and we'd just sit on the bed and talk for a long time about things that were important to her. And I find that so much of our wanting to hear from God is that way. I have to be quiet and ready to hear him when he's ready to talk. And it's not because he's trying to withhold anything. Sometimes, he's waiting for our spirit to be ready. But have understanding that relationship that God wants us to know what's on his mind. He's not trying to keep anything from us. But sometimes, it takes a quiet spirit, like you're saying, to rest in him, sometimes. We have to give him the chance to talk to us. I know I can be running so fast, all the time, that he's gonna have to knock me down in order to get me to listen.

Jai Williams: Trip you.

Ginger Stache: Exactly. I don't want him doing that. So, I want to stop and be ready when he wants to talk so that I can hear his voice.

Joyce Meyer: Well, I'm gonna say something that may throw everybody for a loop. So, let's just...

Erin Cluley: Oh, I love it when you do.

Joyce Meyer: Let's just get into something...

Jai Williams: Let's get into it.

Joyce Meyer: A little bit out there. I think that a lot of times God just wants you to do what you want to.

Erin Cluley: Oh, whoa.

Ginger Stache: Mind blown.

Erin Cluley: That was unexpected.

Joyce Meyer: See, it's like...

Ginger Stache: No, I agree. I agree.

Jai Williams: I feel that now. I never would have thought that.

Joyce Meyer: I mean... You know why? Because we have his spirit. So, what we want, a lot of times, is just what he wants. You know, it's like, I raised four children, and I don't feel the need to tell them everything that they need to do, now. They have my spirit: they have my heart. And, you know, they need to be making their own decisions. And I don't think that God wants us to tell us, you know, "Now, eat an apple, don't need an orange," or, you know.

Jai Williams: I love that.

Joyce Meyer: I think a lot of times, he just... You know, there are things that God... Put it like this, you know, maybe, instead of finding out what God wants you to do, maybe you need to have a little more freedom and just begin doing things and trust God to stop you if you're not... 'cause see, it's about your heart. If your heart's right toward God... I don't want to do anything God doesn't want me to do. But if he's not saying anything and I need to do something, then I need to just, "Well, what do I wanna do"? You know, and go do it. And if it's not right, trust him to stop me.

Jai Williams: I love that.

Erin Cluley: That's blowing my mind. Actually, I'm gonna have to think about that one for a while. It feels so against what we've been taught. Not that it's... It's just that there's such freedom in that. I kinda takes the pressure off.

Joyce Meyer: And you know, obviously, he doesn't want you to go sin if you want to sin, that's not what I'm talking about.

Erin Cluley: Like, I know the difference, as a follower of Christ, I know what the difference is.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, you know what the word says. You know... You've got God's heart. He doesn't have to tell you. You know, when a kid is little, you have to tell them everything, I mean everything. You have to tell them everything.

Erin Cluley: Everything.

Joyce Meyer: But the older they get, the more freedom you want to give them and the more liberty you want to give them because you have taught them. And we've been taught. We know right from wrong. We don't have to have an instruction about every... Let me tell you something. I know the minute that I'm doing something God doesn't want me to do. I mean, I feel it. I feel his conviction, don't you?

Ladies: Yeah.

Joyce Meyer: You know. I mean, you know that. I know when I'm watching something on television I shouldn't be watching. You know, I know to turn the thing off. It's like, you know, I don't... "What do you need to watch that for. It's not gonna do you any good". So, I turn it off. It's like, I don't... "Show me. Show me what to watch. What should I watch"? You know, we just... We need to relax and breathe and enjoy God, and not make such... Even, like, this thing about God's perfect will and God's permissive will, I don't... You know. I don't even know where that came from. But, you know, all I know is God loves us, and he's gonna let us know... If we love him... He loves us. If we love him and we want what he wants, he is going to make sure that we know what it is, even if we are a little hard of hearing or thick-headed, he'll get through to us and show us.

Ginger Stache: And I'm really glad, too. Matthew 6 says, "Seek first his kingdom and his righteousness and all these things will be added". And sometimes, it's the things, that he gives us that vary. I love what you're saying, because those are the things that he wants to lavish on us because he's a good parent who loves us. We wanna give such good things to our kids. And, you know, God knows so much about who we are and what we can accomplish. We don't know that, as parents, for our kids, but when we begin to see what they love and their desires, you know, we love nourishing those things in them. And God's the same way in us.

Joyce Meyer: "Delight yourself in him and he will give you the desires of your heart".

Jai Williams: Yeah, I truly do believe what you're saying. Like, I... As my daughter gets older... She's 19, now. And as she grows, I delight in seeing her make decisions for herself that even, maybe, I may not have even chosen for her had she had asked me for my opinion. But seeing her make decisions for herself that are gonna push her in the right direction, like that, as a parent, that makes me smile. And I can only imagine that God smiles at us when he sees us like, "Ah, that's my girl". You know, "She's going in the right direction". Cuz I know how it makes me feel, as a parent. And I thought about even with you saying that you knew that God told you that you needed to teach, and you know, and reach people...

Joyce Meyer: But you know how I knew that? And I knew that because that's what fit. You know, that's what I was good at. I mean, I... The first person that I led to the Lord, I felt like he just said to me, "You gonna leave her that way"? And I thought, "Well, what am I supposed to do to her? I don't know what to do with her". And that was when God put it in my heart to teach. "Teach her". And, I thought, I said, "I don't know how to do that". He said, "I know that, but I do," you know? And so, and when we say, "He said, he said, he said," it's, you know, it's...

Jai Williams: It's a knowing.

Joyce Meyer: It's a knowing, it's a whisper in your heart. It's that still small voice. And, you know, of course, I've been at this for a long time now, so I get it. You know, people get all uptight about all these things, you know, and I'm just kinda done with that, you know?

Erin Cluley: Is that what I look like to you?

Erin Cluley: "Erin, calm down. Erin, breathe".

Joyce Meyer: I just know that I love God and he loves me, and I wanna do what he wants me to do. And, you know, I know when I'm done, here, I'm gonna go buy a lamp, and then I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna eat. And I don't know what I'm gonna do after that, but whatever it is, I'm gonna enjoy it.

Jai Williams: Yeah, but the thing is, like, even with that, you've trusted God. You didn't know... Like, you said earlier, like, Dave was calling to see about radio and then you ended up being on tv. And who would have thought like... And now, we're speaking to millions of people through a podcast that also gets on the show, you know what I mean? Like, I don't think God, you know, has to speak all the details of the how.

Ginger Stache: Wouldn't that be terrible if he did?

Erin Cluley: Overwhelming.

Ginger Stache: If he showed you all of it, it'd be like, "Whoa"!

Jai Williams: But he trusts... He trusts what you... Like, that you trust God... That you trust him... You trust the people that you've, you know, trusted your ministry to, as well, to make certain decisions. It just goes into trust. It's not... It's... I'm just saying...

Ginger Stache: Trust is a big part of this.

Jai Williams: It's just that simple thing of like, God trusts us, like we trust him. And he's like, "I trust you're gonna get to the finish line".

Joyce Meyer: I think more than trying to figure it out, it's just doing what you... What you think or feel that you should do after having prayed about it. Trusting God that if you are going in the wrong direction then he will get you back on the right path. I remember, one time, I was trying so hard to figure out what God wanted me to do. "But God, what if I miss you? What if I miss you? What if I miss you? What if I miss you"? And clearly, he spoke in my heart, "If you miss me, I'll find you".

Jai Williams: Ew, yeah.

Ginger Stache: Mic drop.

Erin Cluley: I think we're done.

Jai Williams: I can guarantee you, like, one thing that I like, I've used as like, a guidance when I'm a little confused or like, "God, am I gonna miss you"? Or if I'm not. I know the devil's not gonna tell me to help anybody.

Joyce Meyer: That's true.

Ginger Stache: Right, that's a safe bet.

Jai Williams: You know what I mean? Like, if it's like, "I don't know if I should... Lord, should I do this to help the kids"? I mean, maybe, it's not your thing, but it's ok to try it because Satan is not gonna tell you to go help kids or help the homeless or, you know, or do certain things that are gonna bless people. Like, that's not... Satan's not the author of, like...

Ginger Stache: To love people, yeah.

Jai Williams: To love people. So, even if you take a risk and a chance on something you don't have to stress over it.

Ginger Stache: God says, "No, loving people was not my purpose for you".

Jai Williams: "I think that was from the devil". No! That's not from the devil. That's a safe one to try.

Joyce Meyer: You know, God gives us a lot more freedom, I think, than what we think that he does because we have his spirit. His spirit is in us. So, we know more sometimes than we think we know. You know, because we've got his heart.

Erin Cluley: I had a thought this morning, just as we were getting ready for this, that when I'm... For myself speaking. When I am desperate to find out what my purpose is, it's because I wanna feel good, and I want... It makes me feel important to know I have a purpose. And God kinda showed me like, flip that around to think about like, "What is my purpose for you"? Like, "How do I feel about you"? How... What does God say about who I am in him? And if I can flip my perspective to who he says I am, and who he says he is in my life, it does exactly what you're saying. It flips my perspective to "Whatever you want me to do today, I will do. I'll help who you want. I'll love who you want". And then the rest he takes care of.

Joyce Meyer: Right.

Ginger Stache: I love watching our children find their purpose. I mean, I love watching... And, you know, they're trying different things. They're not always succeeding. They're growing and they're not going to disappoint me because they're trying. And God, I know how much he delights in all of us when we're trying to please him. If we're trying to hear his voice, if we're trying to find his purpose for us, we cannot fail. Because our desires, and like you said, our heart is in the right place. So, don't be a parked car. That's a really important thing. We hope you've been encouraged a little bit. And we do have a free resource for you if you'd like that will be really helpful, also. You can go to joycemeyer.org/talkitout and get a free audio teaching. This is from joyce's series called "Living on purpose for a purpose". And the clip that you heard today is from that teaching. So, you'll get a free audio download from that, if you go there. And of course, you can find out more about the podcast. Make sure you subscribe, join us as often as possible. Thank you all very much. I think this has been so helpful. Really good.

Jai Williams: So purposeful.

Joyce Meyer: Good.

Erin Cluley: Oh, niiiice.

Joyce Meyer: Now, my purpose is to get something to eat because I'm hungry.

Ginger Stache: That's right.

Ginger Stache: And to buy a lamp.

Joyce Meyer: And buy a lamp. Beyond that, I don't know.

Erin Cluley: Sky's the limit, really.

Ginger Stache: We'll just see what happens. We'll trust God. And we'll see everyone next time. Bye-bye.

Ladies: Bye.