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Watch 2022 online sermons » Joyce Meyer » Joyce Meyer - Exchanging Your Pit For A Promise Of Hope

Joyce Meyer - Exchanging Your Pit For A Promise Of Hope

Joyce Meyer - Exchanging Your Pit For A Promise Of Hope
TOPICS: Talk It Out, Hope
Joyce Meyer - Exchanging Your Pit For A Promise Of Hope

Hi, friends. Welcome to Joyce Meyer's Talk It Out podcast where my friends and I talk about God's word and the real stuff of life and we hold nothing back. I'm Ginger Stache, with Erin Cluley, Jai, and of course, Joyce Meyer. We're all in different stages of life. A young career woman and mom to two sweet kiddos. An accomplished songwriter facing an unexpected new life's journey. A leader, creative, an author with a heart for adventure. And a world-renowned Bible teacher whose personal story has impacted millions. And there's you, because sometimes you just need to talk about life with your girlfriends. So, consider yourself one of us, and let's Talk It Out.

Ginger Stache: Hi, friends. I'm so glad you're gonna Talk It Out with us today, because we not only have a great topic that will be really helpful and insightful, we're gonna find our way out of those pits that we get stuck in and really develop hope that will stay in our life. But we're gonna do it in a super fun way because throughout, 40 years now, of women's conferences, Joyce has been doing some really exciting things that help make these lessons come to life for us. So, we're gonna be seeing some of that stuff. And honestly, women's conferences are just some of our favorite times.

Erin Cluley: Favorite.

Jai Williams: They're so fun.

Erin Cluley: It's so fun, as everybody's getting stuff planned and we're starting to work on stuff, there's excitement because we are also excited about being back out there.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, and you know, how funny Joyce is. So, we were at a regular conference last weekend and I had these shoes on.

Jai Williams: They're fabulous, by the way.

Ginger Stache: Which I love. And you guys gave them to me.

Erin Cluley: Yeah we did.

Jai Williams: These were a gift because Ginger had written a book and we wanted to make sure that we gave her something that we knew she'd love. And she,we rocked it, because she loves great shoes, and we felt like those fit her.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. So, the pastor came in to tell Joyce hello and everything, and he said to me, he said, "I love your shoes". And I said, "Thank you very much. I'm pretty sure they're not Joyce's favorites". And she said, "Oh, I don't even look at what she wears anymore. I just let her wear what she wants and I try not to pay any attention". Which is just, you know, I think says something beautiful about our relationship.

Erin Cluley: It does. And also, you always look very cute.

Jai Williams: You always look very cute.

Ginger Stache: Here's where I got my vindication. So then, for worship, it was Bryan & Katie Torwalt. And Katie came out in the exact same shoes.

Jai Williams: Yes!

Ginger Stache: And I'm like, "Yes"! "I'm sorry, Joyce. You're the only one not wearing these shoes".

Erin Cluley: She needs them.

Ginger Stache: I guess, she missed the Holy Spirit or something.

Jai Williams: She did. She missed him.

Ginger Stache: I don't know.

Jai Williams: That's so funny.

Ginger Stache: So many fun things, though, happen when we're out there and we get to laugh, we get to have so much fun together, and we get to share Jesus in the most wonderful ways.

Erin Cluley: Yeah, it really is so special.

Jai Williams: Yeah. It's super exciting. All of the memories I remember having at conferences and just all the lives that have been impacted by the conferences. I just know how pivotal it's been from even doing, like, the choirs with the men's choirs. Like, that's some of my highlights. Some of my highlights are really getting those guys ready to come out there, that cannot sing at all. I love y'all, if y'all are watching. But they don't have...

Ginger Stache: But this group of men who have been through such hard times and they sang, you just saw Jesus everywhere.

Jai Williams: Yeah. So those are,that's like one of my, like, pivotal peak moments of being able to lead those guys during those moments.

Erin Cluley: Yeah, me too.

Ginger Stache: And this is the 40th anniversary, so we're gonna plan a lot...

Erin Cluley: Yeah, we are.

Ginger Stache: Of really fun things. We'll tell you how you can join us. You really need to be here with us. But first of all, let's just dig right into something that we all understand and probably have been stuck in our own pit...

Jai Williams: Yes.

Ginger Stache: At one time or another, where you just don't understand what's happening and you just kinda want to sit and sulk in it. And there may even be a ladder right there waiting for you to get out, and you just don't even feel like getting up and stepping onto that first rung. So, we're gonna take a look at Joyce explaining what it's like in her pit.

Joyce Meyer: Now, Joseph is probably one of the best examples as the right way to respond to unjust treatment. And I'm sure that he had some rough days that the Bible doesn't necessarily tell us all about. But wow, what an example. And what a great account the Bible gives us of somebody who was so unjustly and unfairly treated. And yet, he didn't park at the point of his pain. Come on now. He went all the way through from the pit to the palace. And honey, that's what God's got in mind for you. You might be in a pit, but you don't have to stay there 'cause he's gonna lift you out of that pit and set your feet on a rock. So, just a few scriptures here in Genesis 37, "And when they saw him," they being his brother, "Far off, even before he came to them, they conspired to kill him. They said to one another, 'see, here comes this dreamer and the master of dreams. So come on now, let's kill him and throw him into some,'" what? "'pit: then we will say [to our father] some wild ferocious animal has devoured him: and we shall see what will become of his dreams'. Now Reuben heard it and said, 'no, let's don't kill him'. And he said, 'shed no blood, but cast him into this,' what? "'pit or well that is out here in the wilderness and lay no hands on him'. He was trying to get Joseph out of his hands in order to rescue him and deliver him to his father. When Joseph had come to his brothers, they stripped him of his [distinctive] long garment which he was wearing: and they took him and they cast him into a," what? "Which was empty and there was no water in it". But here's what I've got to say. Joseph chose not to remain where they left him. I don't know where somebody maybe has left you. Maybe somebody you loved and trusted walked out on you, and you're sitting there now with a broken heart. But you don't have to remain where they left you. You can get up, you can shake it off, and you can go on and do great things for God. Joseph decided somewhere down within him that he was gonna keep a good attitude, and that he was gonna trust God to do something for him in his life. So, in my pit, I wasn't this dressed up when I went into my pit, by the way. 'Cause if you're going to sit in your pit, you certainly don't want to look good while you're in there. And I would sit there and just hate people. And you know, if you, if you live in a pit for a long time, you might as well decorate it and make it kind of nice, you know, so you've got something when you go in there. And so, you know, you can have pictures in your pit of all the people that you hate, and then it's like, "Ugh, ughaa. Boy, I remember, I remember what you did to me. And if you think I'm ever gonna forgive you, I'm not going to forgive you. I hate you". And then I could just feel so sorry for myself. Dave plays golf, and he doesn't even understand what I'm going through. And when I try to tell him, he just says, "Cast your care". "Just cast your care". And then I had this book of remembrance. I was so dumb, I actually remember one time getting out a pad of paper, and writing down on a piece of paper everything that I thought was wrong with my husband. Well, the last list I made, I made one of everything that I thought was right with my husband. God has changed me, amen? Now, here's the thing. You know, we say, "Oh God, you gotta change me. God, you gotta help me. God, you gotta do something, you gotta do something". Remember what I said last night? The first thing that Jesus said to a lot of the people that he encountered was, "Get up, make up your bed, and go home". And what he meant was, "Get up, get some gumption, shake that junk off, decide you're not gonna live like that anymore, and let's clean up the mess, and leave no evidence that you were ever in that kind of a situation".

Ginger Stache: If I may make a suggestion? This is an episode that you really need to watch. So, if you're a regular listener of the podcast, we love you, thank you so much, but you might want to grab this one on video because it's so visual, what Joyce is sharing. And I love her because she says the stuff that no one's supposed to say.

Erin Cluley: We're all thinking it.

Ginger Stache: Exactly! "I sat there, hating people". You know, it's like, "I'm not the only one, you know, that has these issues". So, I appreciate that so much. Any connection to hanging out in the pit for you guys?

Erin Cluley: Yeah. I mean, of course, we do. I always think of Joyce when,typically my pit comes out on a Sunday, specifically, which is terrible. Often, we've just gone to church.

Jai Williams: Wow.

Erin Cluley: I know it's very specific.

Jai Williams: After church, too.

Erin Cluley: Or a Saturday. But like, if I am doing things around the house and I'm the only one working really hard and everybody else is playing or napping, then I think of Joyce often she'll tell those stories of how she'll get so frustrated. So, then, I'll start thinking, "I'm the only," or I'll start thinking, "I'm the only one who does anything, and I work so hard". And so, I find myself spiraling like she's talking about hating anybody near me.

Jai Williams: I just know, like,first off, I do wanna talk about those illustrations. That's one of my favorite parts of WC is the different, you know, like elements of creativity that happen. So, like,like that one was one that really stuck out to me with the pit and the pictures, and things, like, because it really made it more, cuz I'm always, somewhat, identify with the story of Joseph. And so, to see it in that way and then to hear Joyce talk about how she processes in the pit, like even, fast forward to today. It's like, man, even though I've learned that lesson, it's always good to have those refreshers to hear it over, and over, and over again. Because you get into those moments, I remember when I was going through the divorce and I realized that like, there were people, there were pictures in my head of people that I thought would come through for me, that I thought would help me, that I thought would hold him accountable and didn't. And I just sat in that pit. And I sat in that pit for at least a year. And I'm not even gonna lie. I might be like a couple of steps up out of the pit, but I'm still, I think I'm still kinda in it, but I'm getting out of it, you know? But...

Ginger Stache: You're climbing that ladder climbing.

Jai Williams: I'm climbing. I've finally made, like she said, made the choice, making the choice to get out of the pit.

Ginger Stache: I love that she said she decorated her pit. I mean, honest,'cause I can get that so much like, "I'm just gonna stay here and I'm gonna seep in it. And I'm gonna make it really, really comfortable so I never want to leave".

Jai Williams: I like how low you said, "Comfortable".

Ginger Stache: It's a pit.

Erin Cluley: So, do you relate?

Ginger Stache: I'll tell you.

Erin Cluley: Or is it just Jai and I?

Ginger Stache: Oh, no, my goodness. I think everybody relates. But for me, so much of it is a self-made pit and not always the circumstances. It's so much more my thoughts. And what I allow to pull myself down. When I was pregnant for our second daughter, Morgan, I got really sick. I mean, I was just vomiting for nine months. I mean, I was just that sick. And I hate to even share that story because I know there have been times that Morgan's heard it so much that she's like, "Oh," you know, and...

Jai Williams: "I'm sorry, mom"!

Ginger Stache: Yeah, I don't want that because it was the best carrot at the end. You know, I would go through all of it again for her. Absolutely. But at the time, when you don't know that wonderful thing, you're gonna have at the end, what I did to dig that pit and to decorate it, was I started thinking things like, "This is not about the pregnancy. I am going to be this way the rest of my life because there is something really wrong with me. And all those things that I've worked for and built, I'm not gonna be able to do anymore, all those dreams that I had. And I'm not gonna be able to take care of these children because this is where I am now. This is what my life is. I can't even lift my head". And so much of that was not just the physical reality, it was the spiritual and emotional reality that I allowed it to become. And it's so different when you begin to allow God to clean out the cobwebs in that pit, you know, instead of me wallowing in it, and say, you know, from the couch, "Tim, can you bring me, can you bring me a cracker"? You know.

Ginger Stache: But instead, to begin thinking, "Tomorrow could be better," you know, "There is hope". And I think that's really the key. Where does that hope come from? So, I stayed in that pit a long time.

Jai Williams: Sometimes, it's more comfortable.

Ginger Stache: Oh, that's very true.

Jai Williams: It's miserable, but sometimes, we're miserable. We're miserable people, sometimes. Where we want to feel,especially if people aren't babying us, like we feel like we should be. Like, you know, while you're cleaning up, if people are like, "Mom, you're doing such," you know, you remember those commercials where the mom used to like, I don't remember what, the what the food was. But she would, like, be cooking. And then, when the before they'd come in, she'd throw like, flour on her face.

Erin Cluley: Yes.

Ginger Stache: So, she was really, really working hard.

Jai Williams: Like, so laborious. You know, but like, if people aren't like, pampering us, like, or giving us the, even if it's like the attention that we may need or deserve, we sometimes feel like we need to give it to ourselves. It's like, so, you know, so then, we stay there and we decorate and, you know, we stay in that pit because it's like, "Well, if no one else will pity me, I will pity myself," you know.

Erin Cluley: And you can easily just jump in there. Like, it feels safe, and cozy, and familiar to go there.

Jai Williams: Yes, but it's still miserable.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, it is. It is.

Jai Williams: It's still miserable. Like, it's not a fun place to be.

Ginger Stache: And instead, of holding on to that hope of this thing that God was doing in my life, in our family, in my body, this child that was coming, I allowed my mind to dwell on the thoughts that Satan was giving me, that were lies, that were, "This is more. This is deeper. I'm gonna be like this for a long, long time". And so much of those thought processes is what can change us. And having a hope, a glimmer of hope. So, we're gonna help provide that for people as we talk through this, too.

Jai Williams: Yeah, that hope is so important.

Erin Cluley: Nine months, let's validate you for a second. That's a long time to be that sick. Like, I remember being sick for three months...

Jai Williams: The first trimester, yeah.

Erin Cluley: And then, thinking that was forever. But nine months is a long time.

Ginger Stache: It was a long time. That is why I have two children.

Erin Cluley: And that was the end.

Ginger Stache: But they're wonderful and I'm so glad! But no, you're right. It's hard stuff and we go through so many hard things, whether it is something physical, or it is something that stole part of our life away, you know, like, an abuse situation, or something where our life drastically changed, or a disappointment, or we didn't get what we want. It's so easy to be, as Joyce said, "Stuck in that point of our pain". We need to learn how to reach for something bigger than ourselves.

Jai Williams: But you just touched on something that's really heavy. Like, when you think of people that are in really tough situations, right now, and feel stuck there. Like, you also have to think about the fact that I'm sure Joseph went through moments when he was thrown into the pit by his brothers. You know, that,like, took his coat that he was very proud of, that his dad just gave him and literally, like, just left him for dead. And, you know, and it's like, there are moments, if you're out there, and you're having those really tough moments where you were, I'm sure Joseph didn't just pop up and be like, "Ah". I'm pretty sure he was thrown in there and like, "Wait a minute. What just happened"? Like, and then, really probably felt sad for quite a while, honestly, because that's hurtful to think about, "My brothers"? Like, and he was the baby, so he looked up to these people, too. So, if you're going through a tough time, it's ok to feel sad.

Ginger Stache: Yeah. It doesn't mean,it doesn't mean it's not reality. It doesn't mean you don't feel it.

Jai Williams: Yeah.

Ginger Stache: It means we need help making a choice not to dwell there.

Jai Williams: Yeah, and figure out,and find that hope, to say, like, "Ok, it's not gonna always be like this," yeah.

Ginger Stache: So, this is where that hope comes from and this is another great example that Joyce gave of how because of what Jesus did for us, he takes that pain, he takes that damage, that's happened in our life and will exchange it for something beautiful and for his righteousness. So, Joyce had the wonderful idea of an exchange store, which I am all about, because as a shopper, I do return a great deal of what I purchase.

Erin Cluley: You're an excellent exchanger.

Ginger Stache: Because it's either, I don't wanna try it on now or it didn't really work the way I wanted. So, I have a constant stream of things coming and going.

Erin Cluley: Any time I've ridden in your car, there is always a bag that is about to go back.

Ginger Stache: So, I love this exchange store. It's like, "This is my love language". And then, of course, I also had the opportunity to play an angel in this, as you'll see.

Jai Williams: I remember this.

Ginger Stache: And so, you know, it was just typecasting, you know, let's admit it. Joyce said, "I need an angel. I'll get Ginger".

Erin Cluley: Those two go hand in hand.

Jai Williams: That role was made for you.

Ginger Stache: Something like that. So, let's take a look and get this visual and this important message of whatever it is in our life that is old and beat up and not serving us well and bringing us down, God will exchange it for his beautiful thing.

Joyce Meyer: Let's just say that I've had this purse for like ooh, oodles of time, lots of time and it's like, man, the handle's falling off, the zipper's broke, the kids got it and colored on it. It's just bad. And I heard about this store called the exchange store and somebody told me that anything that I've got that's old and worn out, I can take it back there no matter how old it is, no matter how long I've had it, and they'll give me a brand-new one. That's just really hard to believe. But let's just try it out. So, let's see here. You know, oh, open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I like that store. It never closes.

Ginger Stache: Hello!

Joyce Meyer: Hello.

Ginger Stache: Can I help you?

Joyce Meyer: Yes, I, well, first of all, what is your exchange policy?

Ginger Stache: Oh, well do you have your receipt with you?

Joyce Meyer: No, no receipt.

Ginger Stache: Doesn't matter. Okay, here's our exchange policy. One rule.

Joyce Meyer: Ask and you shall receive?

Ginger Stache: That's it!

Joyce Meyer: That's it? One thing? Ask and you shall receive? Well, this is really pretty bad but...

Ginger Stache: Yeah, you have well worn that.

Joyce Meyer: I'm asking if I could trade this in for a brand-new one?

Ginger Stache: You said the right thing.

Joyce Meyer: Can I make a little special request?

Ginger Stache: Sure, we'll listen.

Joyce Meyer: Can I have one with sparkles?

Ginger Stache: You want sparkles?

Joyce Meyer: I like sparkles.

Ginger Stache: You know what? We knew that.

Joyce Meyer: Okay.

Ginger Stache: All right, we're ready. How about this one?

Joyce Meyer: Whoo, whoo, whoo! Thank you so much!

Ginger Stache: You're welcome.

Joyce Meyer: I'm gonna come back here again.

Ginger Stache: See you next time.

Joyce Meyer: Is this just not the best ever? This is so good.

Erin Cluley: It's so good.

Ginger Stache: It's so good. Such a great way to really understand that exchange policy that it isn't like you've gotta be within this window. You have to have the right paperwork. You can't have worn it outside, cuz that's how it is with shoes.

Jai Williams: Yes.

Ginger Stache: So, it's none of that stuff. And when Joyce did this, she also had a woman come to the exchange store with, you know, just heavy, torn, dirty, just so much heaviness on her and exchange that weight and that heaviness in her life for something light and airy and beautiful that only God can give us. And so, it's a wonderful visual, but it's more than just that. I mean, it,we have all had those things in our life that we thought, "There is no returning this thing. I have made a mess out of this," or "Somebody else has hurt me in a way that there is no redemption". And God never says that. He never has a situation that he says, "There's nothing I can do with this one".

Jai Williams: Right, yeah. I thought that was such a beautiful illustration because it also shows how simple, almost like a prayer could be. You know, like, for me, that was what that was. Like, that exchange between you and Joyce, just how simple it was, that's just how simple, and how easy, and how normal, and how communicative it can be just to have a relationship and communication with God. And to say, like, "Hey, God, I got this, I got this junk, and I've used it, and I've worn it". As you said, it was well-worn. You know, it's like, "It's ripped up. Like, even in my heart, you know, it's ripped up and I, "

Ginger Stache: And we don't even wanna ask, do we?

Jai Williams: We don't wanna ask because it feels so,

Ginger Stache: It's so ugly.

Jai Williams: And for some reason, and like, I thought it was so powerful, like, for some reason, we're embarrassed about what we have to give to God because it's worn. And we don't wanna show how worn it is. But like, even what you said, as the angel, when she requested the sparkles, you already knew it. So, it's like God already knows what we want, and he already has the desires of our heart. We just have to ask and then we can receive it.

Erin Cluley: Yeah, I think after hearing that, like now as the mom of little kids and we're having conversations about some of the basic things of our faith and what they mean, I cannot think of a better way to explain, like, what it means when Jesus lives inside of you, and when you commit your life to him, that it doesn't matter what you bring him. And before, like, I've grown up in the church, and so, I know those things, but to hear her break it down so simply, that it doesn't matter what I'm bringing, I will be met with love, and forgiveness, and redemption, that it's that simple, is really eye-opening to even those of us who grew up in the church. Because we make it more complicated and it really is just an easy exchange like that.

Ginger Stache: You know what, the hardest thing I ever took to the exchange store? The hardest thing that I ever asked God to take from me, and it was really,it was a long process because I felt shame, and I felt like it wasn't something that I was allowed to give to him, and that was my anger. Like, I held on to anger for a long time because, like I said, you know, it's not how we're supposed to feel as Christians. It's not how we're supposed to do it. And so, that was one of those things that I thought, "I just have to hide this one away where no one can see it". And somehow, thinking like, "God'll forget about it. If I hide it deep down enough". And with so many things in our life, whether it's anger, or shame, or hurt, or disappointment, they work their way up. It's like so many things in our life that no matter how hard you shove it down, it just works its way up. And there finally came a time where I just couldn't deal with it anymore. And I just remember laying on the floor and crying out to God and saying, "I'm so sorry that I've been so angry at multiple things for so long, but especially so angry at you. And will you please help me with this? I don't know what to do with it". And it really was that kind of simple prayer and conversation, like you said. And I don't, I can't tell you exactly words or how it went, but it was just like a lifting. And it was replaced with a peace that I didn't have for so long. It's that kind of very, very real exchange that just changes everything for us.

Erin Cluley: I bet it was scary too, because you wouldn't expect that God would meet you with love...

Ginger Stache: Exactly.

Erin Cluley: When you're angry at him.

Ginger Stache: Right, I mean, you do kind of expect that, "Who are you to be angry at me"? Cuz that's how you feel. You still have the anger. You still don't like what you think God did or didn't do.

Jai Williams: Or didn't do.

Ginger Stache: Yes, but you also think, "Well, I can't present this to God because I'm nothing, and he's God". And instead of saying, you know, "Go sit in a corner for 12 years because I'm tired of your attitude," it was like, "Let me have it. I love you and I don't want you to have to bear that anymore". And that's what Jesus is all about is to bear this stuff for you. And I don't even know how to describe it. It was just,it was just such a surprise, maybe? And changing, totally changing for me.

Jai Williams: Yeah, I'm actually going through that right now. You know, where I've really been warring with God. And I was upset, you know, I was just really upset with him. And,but what's helped me get through it is talking to him about it, you know? But during this illustration, one of the things that popped up in my head, that's probably the hardest thing for me to accept about the exchange store, is understanding that the exchange store is open to everyone, you know?

Erin Cluley: Even those who don't deserve it.

Ginger Stache: The ones that you don't think deserve it.

Jai Williams: Yep. That's hard for me.

Ginger Stache: I get that.

Jai Williams: I don't want him to get a shiny bag, you know? And that's hard. Like, that's what, I just sat there like, "Man". Like, you think about it for yourself, like, "Oh, it's so great"! You know? But then, you think about, "Oh, that exchange store's open 24/7 for everyone". So, that's something that, that's what I've had to war with God with too, is understanding.

Ginger Stache: Makes a lot of sense to me. That would be hard to come to grips with.

Jai Williams: When you believe, because then it's like, ok, your word says, "You reap what you sow". Then, I had to like, stop worrying about that. And he's just like, "Let me take care of it. Like, just let me take," like and that's something I've had to exchange to him. I've had to exchange, wondering what's gonna happen to the people that hurt me, you know, like, I have to actually not care. Like, so I've actually had to continuously give this to God. Like, "God, I care again, if he got an exchange, like, cuz that hurts". Like, you know, so.

Ginger Stache: That verse, that "God is my vindicator," I mean, honestly, it's like so much better for us when we can not care what God does in anybody else's life. And it's not natural. And it's so hard.

Jai Williams: Yeah.

Ginger Stache: Let him be the salve in our life that we need and realize that when that other person does get this totally unfair exchange, what I got was very undeserved, too, in a different way. But the fact that God will still not just say, "Ok, go on your merry way". He will teach us all lessons. We will still have consequences of our choices. Having an exchange store doesn't mean there are no more consequences for your choices.

Jai Williams: I think that's good to point out. I think that's important to put out there because you still have to be mindful about what you do to people. Because I do believe you reap what you sow. But then also, as on the other side of things where I am, I can't spend all my time worrying about what they're exchanging, or not exchanging, or getting, or whatever. I have to, I'mma have to take that to God and exchange my concern about that. And just like you said, allow him to heal my heart. And exchange that bitterness and wanting to have vengeance of my own, you know, and give it to God.

Ginger Stache: The other thing that's great about this is God doesn't run out of stuff. So, it's not like there's only three on the shelf, and once they're gone, somebody else got there before I did and I'm not gonna get one. So,and the sale never ends, you know what I mean? It's all those things that really helps so much. Where we can be glad for other people. And I'm not talking your situation, I'm just talking in general, when somebody gets what we wanted and we didn't get it, that's hard stuff. But it's usually because there's something better that God has for us that we don't realize yet, that we don't see yet, because he never runs out.

Erin Cluley: And his plans are so unique for each of us. So, when I exchange, whatever I'm exchanging, it's different than you, and you. So, his plan for me is different. And he's loving me the way that I need to be loved, or meeting me where I am, so I don't have to worry about you getting my stuff because mine is so different than yours.

Ginger Stache: Right, I think it really comes down to understanding the hope that is in Christ, that there is no comparison in the world. There's nothing that my logical thinking can figure it out, "Oh, this is how it is. It's just like this". And so, knowing that there is a hope that I can hold on to beyond all circumstances, beyond everything that makes sense. And then, as Joyce will explain in this next clip, being so strong in that hope that you can't get away from it, and that nothing can pull you away from it, to be a prisoner of hope. So, she had a great way to describe where that hope comes from and how it can be a constant staple in your life.

Joyce Meyer: Ohh... One of my most yummy scriptures is Zechariah 9:12. Let's put it up. "Return to the stronghold [of security and prosperity], you prisoners of hope," uh-oh, "Even today do I declare that I will restore double, double your former prosperity to you". Now, we're going over the edge. Okay, now look. God promises us that if we will become prisoners of hope. You know what that means? I'm locked up in hope. I can't get away from it. I can't get out of it. Hope. Hope. Hope. Hope. Hope. Everywhere I look hope, hope, hope. When you do that the devil does not know what to do to you. Now, listen, the devil will attack us. He'll come against us. He'll come with negative thoughts and trying to tell us that... But, but, but, but, whoohoo, hoohoo! He can't get to us, as long as we remain prisoners of hope. Amen?

Ginger Stache: Oh, my goodness. You have to watch that. Because if you're just listening it makes,

Jai Williams: "What is Joyce doing"?

Ginger Stache: "What is happening"?

Erin Cluley: But it's so funny.

Jai Williams: It's so fun to hear, though.

Ginger Stache: But really, there is something about hope, that being a prisoner of it, is so important. It's such a good thing because hope is intangible, right? We can't see it. We can't touch it. We can't,we don't always have evidence of it. And so, it very easily slips away from us if we don't have that tightly wrapped around us, knowing who Jesus is, knowing what he'll do for us, even when we don't see it. And I can be one of those people that can almost be like a yo-yo of hope, you know, where it gets further away and I pull it back and then I throw it and then I pull it back. But God puts up with even that. So, if I can step in there and become a prisoner of hope. So I'm saturated in it, instead of the other ways that I tend to deal with it sometimes, it really makes a difference.

Erin Cluley: Do you think you can hope too much? Your answer would be, "No," because that's what she just told us. But do you feel...

Ginger Stache: Thank you for making it easy for us.

Erin Cluley: Yes, "Thank you for answering, we can move on". No, do you think that there...

Ginger Stache: Like, "If I get my hopes up, I'll get hurt"?

Erin Cluley: Yeah, or like, I was just talking to someone about this other day, do you not pray for someone to get this job or whatever it is, because what if they don't get it and then they question God or whatever? So, I'm of the mindset: yeah, you have hope until you're told otherwise. And it's not that you're, you can't,like, I don't wanna pray for my sports team to win because I don't think that's what's important. But I just wonder, like, there's such a...

Ginger Stache: I do that.

Erin Cluley: Do you do they win.

Ginger Stache: Well, not every time, no. But I always think there's people on the other team praying too. So, you know that's...

Jai Williams: "Who's more saved"? No.

Ginger Stache: But I think, I think God, let's pray about anything. And I think he wants us to hope about everything, too. And you're right. Our hearts are delicate.

Erin Cluley: They are.

Ginger Stache: And so, it is hard when we have a hope in something, in particular, that doesn't happen the way we wanted where we didn't get what we asked for. But when I look at the two choices, a or b: "Am I going to hope," or, "Am I going to have no expectations and be negative throughout"? And then, I was miserable the whole time. I'd rather have the hope. And, because even when there is disappointment in that one thing, there is still hope for a future in Christ. And there is still hope for knowing he has something better. And I know that's hard to say when big things in our life fall apart. Well, I mean, let's talk about, we lose someone we love that we were praying for them to get healed. It's so hard. There is hope in it that God will heal our hearts. I mean, otherwise we stay in that pain. We're back in that pit where we started. So, it is kind of that cycle, if you don't have a way to get out of the pit, and that's through the exchange. And if you don't have a way to be a prisoner of hope and know that, that exchange is lasting, that it's eternal, and not just what we do or don't get in this season of our life, or even in this world, you know, it's such a big picture thing. But it's a great question, Erin.

Jai Williams: Yeah, and I think like, up until these past few years with the big thing that happened in my life, I've always been a pretty big person of about faith and hope. And always, you know, like, believing God's gonna come through. And my prayer used to always be like, "God, if this is for me, swing the doors wide open. And if it's not, slam the door shut". Like I've always prayed that prayer. And honestly, when doors would shut, I'd be like, "Well, ok". But you know, it didn't shake me until it affected my marriage. And that was the one that was like, "Whoa, whoa. I wasn't expecting that". But honestly, what I've tended to do, for the most part, and what I'm kinda getting back to now, kind of post-trauma, you know, is praying like the three Hebrew boys. Like, that's always been my go-to is to say like, "God, please deliver me from this".

Ginger Stache: "From this fire".

Jai Williams: From this fire. And if you,but if you choose not to, I still know that you were able to. I still know that you're," I think that, that's what it's most about is just having hope and knowing that he can do it, even if his will was to not do it, even if his will was to not, you know, deliver us from that, or to heal us from that or, you know, or a loved one dying, maybe that person doesn't make it, you know, maybe that's not the will of God. Like just saying like, "God, if you don't heal me of this, or if you don't do this, I just know that you could. I know that you can". I think that's...

Erin Cluley: One thing, I think that you both think is so important and that is it's not putting our hope in that circumstance to turn out the way we want it to, our hope, and Joyce tells us this, our hope is in Christ. So, regardless of, if I get the thing I'm hoping for, ultimately it's in him who I know is good, and is for me. So, even, if he doesn't, then he's still good.

Jai Williams: It's so hard, though.

Erin Cluley: But it is hard. It's really hard.

Jai Williams: It's hard because we glamorize victory so much...

Erin Cluley: We do.

Jai Williams: That it's hard to accept defeat or hard to accept the opposite of victory. You know?

Erin Cluley: And I think so many people are turned away or,I'm sorry, I should say, they run from the gospel because they were let down, because their hope, they had hope and then they were let down.

Jai Williams: "Hope deferred makes the heart sick".

Erin Cluley: So, learning how to still have that, even though you have been hurt is big.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, it's almost like life can very easily be a series of disappointments, one after the next, after the next. And that is really a life without Christ. Because when we do begin to see who God is, even when there are disappointments, there still is an inexplicable peace at times that we didn't expect. There's a joy even when we're not happy. There are things that God gives us that provide our hope, that are so much out of the realm of what we understand in a physical plane. That it's a spiritual place, and it doesn't mean it's not real cuz it's probably more real than anything we're seeing, right here, right now. But that's the hope that I love holding on to when I've had a whole lot of other really hard things that have hurt.

Jai Williams: The imagery of being a prisoner of it is beautiful, though. Like being, like, "It's captured me". You know, like, you think of someone trying to break out of it, you know, like, you...

Erin Cluley: You can't.

Jai Williams: You just can't. You know, and so, like, that's something that I really pray is, "God, help me to be a prisoner of hope. Help me to always believe. Help me to believe that there's something on the other side, you know, help me to believe that this is gonna work out for my,let me believe that 'all things work together for the good of them that love the Lord'. Let me believe that you, you know, that you'll do 'exceedingly abundantly above all I can ask or think,' because right now, I don't feel it". But so, like, that prayer of, "Lord, help me to be a prisoner of hope so that I can always," I mean, it's like you said, it's less miserable to have something to look forward to. You know, like a kid. It's like I remember my daughter when her and her cousin used to play and they used to, I would say, "Ok, we only,you only have a couple more hours before, you know, your play date's over". And instead of them, like, living it up those last couple of hours, when they were like five, six, they'd be like [sigh] they'd mourn. Like, "Oh, I can't believe..."

Ginger Stache: "It might as well be over now".

Jai Williams: Say like, "I can't believe you're leaving me". You know, it's like, "You've literally wasted your last couple of hours being sad and cry," like, they literally would console. It was cute, though. Like, "I'm gonna miss so badly," you know, I'm like, "I shouldn't have even told you". Like that,you know? But it's like, we could either be miserable during that time, or we can play and have fun, you know, and have hope.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, but that's why we need these conversations. That's why we need each other. That's why we need to gather as women. And we need to have the women's conference, and we need to be encouraged. We need to know how to climb out of that pit that we're in and grab that exchange that God is offering us and see where that hope is. I think it's all so valuable and so important and we've had so many great things over, well, Joyce has been doing the women's conference for 40 years now.

Erin Cluley: That's amazing.

Ginger Stache: I know. It's incredible. When you think of any kind of a conference that's been around for 40 years, there are not a lot. So, that's quite extraordinary. And all of us have been around for a lot of years at the women's conference. And in fact, I don't know if we're officially allowed to say this, but I'm just going to do it anyway.

Erin Cluley: Do it!

Ginger Stache: We're gonna do a little meet up. So, if you guys come to the women's conference, we would love to just say, "Hey," and all of us, just spent spend a little time, you know, nothing big, nothing official, but let's do a little hang out.

Jai Williams: I think it'd be fun. You're like, "Cool. That's cool".

Erin Cluley: Yeah, I'll be there.

Jai Williams: Sounds fun.

Ginger Stache: So, this year's 40th anniversary women's conference is one that you do not want to miss. It's going to be spectacular. We have wonderful guests, of course, we have Joyce. We have wonderful music and so many surprises. Big things that we are planning that are gonna be so fun. And now's a great time to register because when you do it, if you do it before, let me find the date, may 31st, you'll save cash. So, we've already told you about free exchanges at the exchange store, and now, you're saving cash. So, this was just a really productive shopping trip.

Erin Cluley: We're just here to help.

Ginger Stache: I know. So, register before that date and save some money. And if you don't do it today, which I think you should, just do it sometime, because we really want to see you there. The dates are September 22nd through the 24th, and we're going to have so much fun. So, we hope to see you there. Go to to register. Anything else you guys wanna tell them why they should come?

Erin Cluley: You wanna know what one my favorite things? This is more serious about it. But when you were talking about how much we need women to gather together and have these conversations, one of my favorite things to hear about, is how the ladies will go back to their hotel rooms at night and they will stay up for hours dissecting what,we just did. They do exactly what we just did, and have these conversations of, "How do I take what I just learned and apply it to my own life"? So, basically, you get to Talk It Out yourselves. But I think it's so cool to see how they have that experience with God over the weekend.

Jai Williams: One of the things that I think is so powerful, especially, post-pandemic, you know, is that gathering. And so many people haven't gathered. But even before the pandemic, I just remember being in those rooms with thousands, and thousands, and thousands, and thousands of women worshiping. Like, there's nothing like a woman worshiping, you know. Like, I mean, we like guys worshiping too. But it's nothing like when we, like, cry out to God and worship together in that unity that you feel in the room, it's like a little piece of heaven.

Erin Cluley: It is.

Jai Williams: It's literally like a little piece of heaven to hear all of God's girls in the room, like, singing to him and worshiping him. So, like, it's powerful. Like, I mean, beyond the fun, because it's very fun. Like, Joyce and the team, like never pull out, like, they always pull out the stops. So, you're gonna have like a great production. But the thing that really gets me is just the tears, and the joy, and the unity we get when we're worshiping together.

Ginger Stache: And what God does.

Jai Williams: Yeah, he does so much. Just seeing women around praying for each other, it's just,it's so powerful. Like, it's just, it's an amazing experience.
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