Joyce Meyer - Are You Really Enough?
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Ginger Stache: Hi, friends, welcome to Joyce Meyer's Talk It Out podcast, where Joyce teaches the Word of God in her practical, no nonsense way. And we all talk about the real stuff of living it and hold nothing back. I'm Ginger Stache, with Erin Cluley, Jai, and our friend Joyce Meyer here with us today. And you, of course, because sometimes you just got to talk about life with your girlfriends. So, come on in here and let's Talk It Out.
Jai Williams: Yes.
Ginger Stache: We were just learning some very interesting stuff about one another. Erin has a new dog that she is not happy with.
Joyce Meyer: That's right.
Ginger Stache: It's going to be good in the long run.
Erin Cluley: Yes, it's a long term investment that we have made. We're playing the long game. That's what I tell myself, daily.
Ginger Stache: But today may not be the day that you feel great about it.
Erin Cluley: No. No, and people say, "Don't you love him? Don't you love puppy breath? And isn't,aren't they so cute"? No, they're not. They're not. So, that's where I am.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, yeah. And Joyce is now making our Talk It Out, day of fun, date day. After we're done here, on the podcast, you and Dave go out on the town.
Joyce Meyer: Yes, that's right. We go out and eat.
Erin Cluley: Cute.
Joyce Meyer: Just eat and go home.
Erin Cluley: That's a big date day.
Jai Williams: For a date, what is a meal of choice for you, for a date?
Joyce Meyer: Italian food is my favorite, but you can only do so many noodles and still wear your clothes.
Jai Williams: You're a pasta girl.
Joyce Meyer: So, I'm very careful about that.
Ginger Stache: And we were all talking about how fabulous Jai's pants are. With the three different...
Jai Williams: Yes, they have different textures on all of 'em.
Ginger Stache: And look at those shoes, girl!
Jai Williams: Yeah, Erin, talked about my shoes as well. Like, they have a clear heel.
Joyce Meyer: And your hair, this week, it's long.
Jai Williams: It's long, its long. She's...
Joyce Meyer: Next week, it'll be short.
Jai Williams: We'll see.
Erin Cluley: She's got some wave to her today.
Jai Williams: I got a new crimper.
Erin Cluley: Oh!
Jai Williams: Speaking of eighties, because you have...
Erin Cluley: My pants have stirrups.
Jai Williams: You have stirrups pants and I have a crimper.
Ginger Stache: And I'm a child of the eighties, so. Well, I wasn't born in the eighties, let's not be crazy. But anyway, go ahead.
Jai Williams: No, I'm just saying, like, I bought a new crimper. So, we're just trying it out.
Ginger Stache: Very fun. Today, we're talking about a question that I think a lot of people have been asking themselves, and it's: am I enough? Can God really use me? Am I good enough? So, many questions that go along with that. We've talked a lot about knowing who you are in Christ, which really ties to this. But I think this is kind of the next step, beyond that, is: "Ok, I'm starting to understand who I am in Christ, but," there's always that "But". Will he use me, and do I have what it takes, you know? So, this is a topic, Joyce, that you really wanted to talk about. You thought this would be a great thing for us to dig into.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, I really don't like it when people feel insignificant, and they feel that God can't use them. Because if you really, if you really look at who God used, I mean, Jesus prayed all night, before he chose his disciples. And I mean, they were like, one was a tax collector and they were the most hated people in Rome at the time. And poor, Peter, he just couldn't keep his mouth shut, and he had a little, I mean, most of them were just fishermen. And just your average, ordinary people. And I was telling you earlier, that we were in a conference one time and Martin Smith, from what used to be delirious, they broke the band up, but, he's Smith united now. And I was talking about how I almost failed English. I got a d in English and here I talk to people all over the world every day. And he said, "I failed music".
Erin Cluley: Oh, wow.
Joyce Meyer: And I thought, "How funny is this? Here, the worship leader failed music and the speaker almost failed English, and God picks us to use". But we were talking about the little boy that gave his lunch that fed the 5000, and his name is not given. He just had what was needed at the time, and he was willing to give it, and he gave his lunch. And, I always get how many loaves and how many fishes mixed up.
Ginger Stache: Because it happened twice. I'm like, "Which one was this"?
Joyce Meyer: Five and two and he,but they had twelve basketfuls' left over. So, if you,if you offer God what you have, "Here I am. Use me". And I think we have to not be picky about how God uses us.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, that's good.
Ginger Stache: That's an important point, isn't it?
Joyce Meyer: I think sometimes, people have something they wanna do. But it may not be what God wants them to do. Or, I do think sometimes, God will kinda test you, and you start at the bottom, so to speak?
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: It's like somebody who starts at the bottom of a company and learns all about it on their way up. And maybe, eventually, they become the top executive, but they started in the mailroom, or something.
Jai Williams: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: And I know when I first felt the call of God on my life, I was so excited about doing anything for God. I mean, I went out on the street with my church on Saturday mornings and my kids, and passed out gospel tracts. And I just,it just, street ministry just was not me. I mean, I didn't like it at all. And I tried working in the nursery and didn't take long for me, and the kids, both to know that wasn't my call. And so, you have to be willing to lay your hand to whatever is in front of you, and then, you'll find out what your exact call is. And most of the time, it's not a platform. There are more people that are called in to "Helps" and intercessory prayer ministries, and maybe, counseling ministries.
Ginger Stache: And they're so important.
Joyce Meyer: They're so important. And so, the people that often feel the most insignificant are actually the most important.
Jai Williams: The pillars.
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: We think if you're on a platform that makes you the top of the rung, but that's not necessarily true. So, we don't want people to feel insignificant. We want everybody to know that they're important.
Ginger Stache: I know that what you were just saying about people feeling insignificant, there are so many people who are doing incredibly important stuff, moms who are at home with their kids every day. I think of people in health care right now, nurses who are not always having the most glamorous jobs in the hospital. They're so valuable and they mean so much. And yet, oftentimes, people ask that question, you know, "Is what I am doing, does it even matter"?
Joyce Meyer: Right. Well, even if it doesn't matter to a person that you know, it matters to God. The thing that we have to understand is, as long as we're doing what God wants us to do, then it is significant. And it doesn't really matter what anybody else thinks about it. I was, I have a teaching coming up soon, and I was, well, this past weekend, I was talking about Hebrews chapter eleven, and it talks about Abraham and Jacob and Abel and just different people who did great things. But then, it goes on down and it talks about all these people, their names are not given, but it says they were sawed in two, they were eaten by lions, and it says, "Men of whom the world was not worthy".
Erin Cluley: Hmm.
Joyce Meyer: And I thought, now, here, these guys sound almost more important than the people that were named, but their names were not given. And I think we really need to get over, the Bible says, don't let, "When you give, don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing". And, of course, you know, we might wonder, "Well, what does that mean"? And I felt like that God told me, "When you do something good, don't even sit around, in your head, thinking about how good you were". Because it's God that's working through us. And God can work through anybody that's available. They don't have, you don't have to have ability. You just have to be available for God to use you.
Erin Cluley: That feels like a principle that works kind of on both sides. Like, if you don't feel like you're enough, like, if I, when I'm at home in mom mode and I'm folding piles of laundry, and there's dishes and kids, and all that, it doesn't feel like it's enough. But God,this is where God has put me, so that is enough. On the flip side, if I feel like I'm doing something really great, come back down, but God,where does God want me? So, it's kinda like walking that line in the middle, to keep focused on both ends, of that spectrum.
Jai Williams: Yeah.
Ginger Stache: Where people put the focus is so different than where God does.
Jai Williams: Yeah, and I was thinking about this when I was, you know, when we were talking about this topic. I was just like, "Okay, Lord," cuz I know I struggle with this more now, than I ever did before. Like, I never struggled with feeling like I wasn't enough or that I was insignificant, because I've always seen God do big things in my life. Even when I felt like, "Eh..." Or insecure, anything like, I've always seen him really show up, with music, anything that I did. And,but, after I got married, a lot of my life was, and I felt like this was the right thing to do, and I still do, to an extent, I tied everything about what I thought God was gonna do in my life, with him and with my family. And so, once my marriage fell apart, I've gone through a season where I was just like, "God, like, I don't even know if I, if I have significance of what I was supposed to do anymore". Like, because, like you said, you don't necessarily know how it's gonna, you know, flush out. Like, I didn't know, I thought I knew. But now, it's different. So, I'm like, I found myself like, when people talk about relationships, I don't necessarily even want to chime in, because I'm like, I have a failed marriage. You know, like, it's just things like that where I felt super insignificant, and super like, I couldn't, but then, God led me, even this morning, I was reading about the story of Joseph and the coat of many colors. I've always like, Joseph's been like one of my stories. I'm like, I always felt like that. You know, like the coat of many colors, but then, what really, really stuck out to me was even when the brothers took his coat off, and threw him in the pit for him to go away, and he didn't have the coat anymore, but he still ended up living out the promises of God.
Erin Cluley: Cuz God's plan didn't change.
Jai Williams: Because his plan didn't change. The coat was off. So, it's like, even though, my marriage is off, you know, like the coat was a gift, you know, so like, even though that's off, that didn't change the promise. And that just really encouraged me about my significance, that even without the thing that I was proud of and wore it proudly, yeah, it's, even though that's off now.
Ginger Stache: This scripture Luke 1:45, just makes me think of that so strongly. "Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises for her". So, even when the coat falls off, even when those things that you think are God's promises disappear, standing on who God says he is and what he'll do for you, not who you think you are, everything changes, if, we're blessed, when we can hold on to his promises and believe that he will bring them forward.
Erin Cluley: That's so good. In those times when things don't work out like you think, or the plan looks different, or what you think the plan's supposed to be, is when you, me, I question God in that situation, and I question myself, and I lose, for a bit, of who I am, so easily that I can go there. So, to stand on a verse like that. "No, this is what he's promised. This is what he says to me". Nothing else has changed, that's so good.
Jai Williams: Yeah, there's a maverick song that I was listening to this morning, cuz I literally, after God dealt with me on that, I just started writing down some of his promises, that he promised me, even while I was still in my marriage. Like, and I'm like, "That stuff can still can still happen. That's still your promises". And there's a song by maverick city called, "Yes and amen". Like, it goes, "All your promises are, yes, and amen". And so, I just started saying that today, like, "Your promises are yes and amen. They're still gonna happen". It might not look the way I thought it was gonna look, but it's still, so, I felt this like jolt of like, "I am enough". Like, "I'm significant".
Ginger Stache: Let's all say it.
Ladies: I am enough!
Joyce Meyer: Well, and you know, you were right in believing what you believed when you were married. You needed to put your whole self into it and believed that God would use the two of you together. But when things don't work out, the way that even God wants them to, which we know is not God's will for marriages to fall apart, but it wasn't your fault, in that situation. And something that God put in my heart a long time ago, and I don't know that I've ever said it on Talk It Out, but he told me that because he's God, plan b can be better than plan a ever would have been.
Jai Williams: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: And that's see, that's, see, whatever God does next in your life, can be better than what he originally had planned, because all things are possible with God. And he does, he does redeem things. And he gives us double blessing for our former trouble, he's a God of justice, so...
Ginger Stache: And you had to ask those questions with your upbringing, with what you went through, you know, "Am I enough for God to use aft?Er,"
Joyce Meyer: Well, I certainly didn't feel like I was enough. That's why I married the first guy that came along, that paid any attention to me, because I felt like, because I'd been sexually abused, nobody would ever want me. So, I certainly, didn't feel like enough. You know, I was desperate, grabbed the first thing that comes along. And that was just a five-year nightmare, which I didn't need, because I'd already had a lifetime full of nightmares. And the devil wants us to feel like, that we're not enough that we're never doing enough. I know, we took a little survey here, one time, "What would,if you could ask God any question, what would you ask him"? And there were a lot of different answers, but the one that got the most hits was, "How can I know when I'm doing enough"? And I think that's interesting.
Ginger Stache: When I'm doing enough.
Joyce Meyer: When I'm doing enough. You know, for some reason, we tend to think God's never satisfied.
Ladies: Yeah.
Joyce Meyer: And he is. You know, the main thing God wants is for us to love him. And he's not nearly as interested in "Our doing" as we are. You know, he wants us to love him, and to be willing to do whatever he puts in front of us, and to be happy.
Ginger Stache: Yeah. You know, I was raised in a home where I was constantly told that through Christ, I could do anything, and that God had big things planned for me. And I was, I don't know, bold enough to always believe that, and to hold on to that, and to feel special because of it. Not above anyone else, in a way that we're all special. But somehow, to feel like, there's something amazing ahead, and to kind of have an enthusiasm for that. And,but along with that, you still walk through times, you know, whether it's in high school, and boys, or whatever else is happening, that all you see is your faults and all you see are these different things. So, I began to learn very quickly that I am definitely not enough. I mean, I am flawed, and I am selfish, and I am arrogant, and all these different things. And really turned it around fairly quickly with that foundation that I'd always learned in God's word that I don't have to be enough, because God, it's God that makes me enough. So, all those things that are so wrong with me, aren't the reason God says that I'm enough.
Joyce Meyer: If you could have been enough, you wouldn't have needed Jesus.
Ginger Stache: Exactly, exactly! He says that I am enough because he chose me, that I am enough because he created me in his image, and he has a purpose and a plan for me and a hope and a future. So, it's holding on to all those good things, and of course, you know, like you said, things go very wrong at times and you're wondering, "Where is all this going"? You know, "I feel so insignificant," when people many times people would discount me or not expect a lot of me. But I began to just love showing those people that they were wrong, you know. That I'm going to fight through because I want what God has for me, and holding onto that and believing that.
Joyce Meyer: Anytime something goes wrong, we take it on ourselves.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, yeah.
Joyce Meyer: "What's wrong with me? It's my fault". Something, I find interesting is we don't have any trouble at all, believing we've got all these faults. But how many people are bold enough, in God, to ever think about the things they do right?
Jai Williams: Yeah.
Erin Cluley: It almost feels wrong to do that.
Jai Williams: Prideful.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, it does. But they're gifts from God. You know, there are things that God has given you, and if it's not prideful, and you're thanking God for them. You know, I thank God that I'm a good speaker, because I get to really help a lot of people with the word. And I wish I was a singer, but I'm not, so I don't, that doesn't make me not worth anything. You know, you take the gifts you have and you use them to the best of your ability to serve God. And I wanna say again, God wants his people to be happy. Or to have joy, I should say, because happiness is usually based on what's happening. But, the joy of the Lord is one of the Fruit of the Spirit. And I, so many people don't enjoy their life. And a lot of it is because the devil just gets them thinking about everything that's wrong with them. All the time. You know, if, I don't know if any of you still have any problem with this, but I'm sure some of the people watching do. I remember all the years when the first thing that I thought of, when I woke up in the morning, was everything I did wrong the day before. Everything I did wrong the day before. And every once in a while, that'll still happen to me. And I'm learning to say, "Just shut up, devil," you know? Or, "Thank you for reminding me, that just makes me that much happier about all that Jesus has done for me".
Erin Cluley: Yeah, this last week at church, so, I did announcements at church. So i...
Jai Williams: Oh, nice!
Erin Cluley: Yeah, it was real exciting. But I was so nervous. And so, when I finished, all I could think about for an hour was, "Why did you say it like this? Or why did you, why didn't you say this"? And then, I had to stop myself and think, "No, I did the best that I could. God gave me what I needed for that moment. Let it go. And this is not what you need to worry about". But I could feel those wheels turning and picking myself apart, for something so silly. And I, there's a few times that's happened, where I like, I have to out loud say, "Stop". And refocus on, "You did fine".
Joyce Meyer: I think people really need to realize that, that is the devil. It is the enemy coming against us, trying to belittle us. And you know, that's exactly what Joseph's brothers tried to do to him. You know, when he thought he was gonna go fight Goliath and his brothers said to him, "With whom have you left those few sheep"? You know, not just the sheep, "But the few sheep that," "Who do you think you are"? And he knew that God was for him, so he went ahead and did what he felt like he was supposed to do. But if you are insecure at all, or you feel like you're not enough, it doesn't take much of a negative comment from somebody else for you to just give up and quit, and think, "It's, I just can't do it".
Ginger Stache: That's true. You can hear 20 very nice comments and one bad one. And it's the bad that blows over and over in your mind that you cannot get out.
Erin Cluley: That phrase, "Who do you think you are"? That's a big one. I struggle with one a lot. Like, "Who do you think you are to have anything to say in this conversation"? Yeah, it stops ya.
Jai Williams: Yeah, I just recently had to do a concert with someone that, she actually won one of those big like contests.
Erin Cluley: Cool, like one of the TV ones.
Jai Williams: Yes. And she is such an amazing vocalist. Like, she is very technical, she does all the right notes. And I know, for me, I'm not like that. Like, when I when I sing. Like, I sing from the soul. I come from a gospel background, and just sing from the heart, you know, and I just let it out, you know? And,but all the way up, until it's almost time for me to go on stage with her, I was like,heart was like... And I just felt so little. I'm like, "I'm not as technical as her. I don't sing like her. I don't, I don't...." You know, like all these, these are all the words I heard in my head, and I felt every, I felt so small. Then finally, I stepped myself out. I went in the hallway, and I was like, "Breathe, I can do this. God has given me," you know, "God has given me this gift. I wouldn't been given, offered this opportunity if I wasn't prepared". Like, I prepared for this. Like, you know, "I am more than a conqueror". I was just talking, talking, talking. And then, finally, and honestly, guys, this is how crazy it was. Like, Satan's so ugly. Ugh! I can't stand him! But like, I was in the hallway, like, really like, big, affirming me, speaking the word over me, and I hear the song that I'm supposed to be up there singing, like, being played.
Ginger Stache: Oh no!
Jai Williams: I was like, "Ah! I'm late"! I was late.
Ginger Stache: Gotta go.
Jai Williams: I gotta go! And I was like, "Okay, that's the song". And I was like, "What do I do? Do I panic? Just go"! So, I'm talking to myself. This is this is how fast I'm talking to myself. "Just go"! So, I'm feeling, but honestly, that little jolt of like, I don't know what it was,it was the Holy Spirit to allow me to step away and like, just be human for a moment. And I ran in, and I was just like, "So sorry".
Ginger Stache: You made a big entrance.
Jai Williams: I really did. I really did. But it honestly, calmed me down a little bit, because it pushed me out of my head, and out of what Satan was saying. And honestly, I just went up there, and I had a good time, and I did my best. But I had so much fun because I allowed myself to not be so stressed about how good she was. I'm like, "God, I'm good, too. Like, you gave me this gift". And honestly, afterwards, everybody was just like, "Oh my," like, the energy in the room like went up. Because I let go. And I was, I became instantly, like, when you were talking, I thought of the word "God-fidence". Like, my friends used to say that like, "I've got a confidence that's from God". So, God-fidence, like, it was like a God-thing that I was like, "I know," and I listened back to the little taping and I'm like, "The notes wasn't all there but," but,like, I know that my gifting is connecting with people, it's not necessarily the technicality. But we have to be ok, not being like everybody else. You know, like, she was more technical. Her notes were perfect. Every note was spot on. But what I have, and who I am, and my personality, it connected with who I was supposed to connect with.
Ginger Stache: But isn't comparison, a huge part of all this.
Joyce Meyer: Oh, my gosh!
Ginger Stache: It makes us feel so insignificant because we're looking at who everybody else is instead of what God is doing in our life. Do you know how I could be so messed up being on stage with Joyce Meyer at every conference?
Erin Cluley: Really messed up.
Ginger Stache: Oh my.
Jai Williams: Oh my.
Ginger Stache: Oh my, what I love to say is that when I am done, every time I get a standing ovation, when I'm finished, it's because I introduced Joyce, and they're clapping for her.
Jai Williams: She's standing behind you. You're like, "Who me? Oh..."
Ginger Stache: And I'm like, "Thank you..."
Joyce Meyer: "And here's Joyce". I have a good story that I think everybody can relate to. You know, I had believed God to do speaking engagements, like, forever. From the time God called me. And of course, I was just doing a little like home Bible studies and things like that. And one of the first invitations I got to go to something that I would've considered big was, really was kind of a fluke because the speaker canceled at the last minute. And somebody that knew somebody, that knew somebody, was pretty far down the line knew me, and they were kind of desperate for a speaker, so they invited me. Now, I wasn't one of the main speakers. I was a workshop speaker. And so, all the speakers were sitting on the front row. And I'll never forget it. There was reverend so-and-so, and Dr. so-and-so, and prophetess so-and-so, and bishop so-and-so, and Joyce, from Fenton, a place that nobody had ever heard of. Well, they wanted the workshop speakers to get up and talk about what their workshop was gonna be about the next day, so people could kinda decide where they wanted to go. And you all know, I'm pretty bold. But I got up there and I was so scared because I felt so insignificant after they had introduced all these bishop, Dr, prophetess, reverend, and Joyce, that I just thought "Oh my..." The devil was screaming in my ear, "You need to get your purse and go back to Fenton, where you belong".
Ladies: Get your purse!
Ginger Stache: I love that. You took your purse at least.
Joyce Meyer: "And get out of here and don't ever stick your head out of Fenton again". And I was so scared, and this is the truth, I opened my mouth to tell what my talk was gonna be at the next day, and I was so scared that nothing came out.
Erin Cluley: That is shocking.
Joyce Meyer: It was like, this little..."A," a little squeak.
Ginger Stache: Little squeaks.
Joyce Meyer: I had a decision to make, right then, and if I wouldn't have made the right one, I wouldn't be here today. And I had a decision to open my mouth and try again, or to run off that platform. And God vindicated me. The next day, we had so many people at my workshop that they were hanging out the doors. And we had brought, back then, it was cassette tapes. We had brought all these teaching cassette tapes, and most,everybody else didn't bring hardly anything. So, people were walking by that table saying, "Well, who is it? Who is she? Does anybody know who this is"? And I'm like, "What have I done"? And I mean, they bought every cassette tape, they would have bought the tablecloth if Dave would have sold it to 'em. And so, you have to not give up. You know, even if you feel like the first time you try something that maybe you're not so great at it, that's ok.
Ginger Stache: Even when you do fail.
Joyce Meyer: Yeah, right. And you know, I look back now, at some of the messages I preached in the beginning, and I thought, "Oh, my gosh, I wish I could get that back," you know.
Jai Williams: Strike that from the record.
Joyce Meyer: "I hope nobody has a copy of that". And you know, I just preached last Sunday, and I preached two different messages, one in the early service and one in the second service. And I was in Joel Osteen's church, which is one of the biggest around, and you have people up in the third balconies. And when I left, I thought, I thought, "You know, I liked the first message better than the second one. Maybe, I got a little bit too fiery in the second message". But I've been doing those so long, I thought, "Not going there. Forget it. Forget it. Forget it. Been there, done that. Not going around that mountain again". Because if God wanted to tell me that something was wrong with it, it wouldn't have come like guilt. Because God doesn't guilt you.
Jai Williams: That's so good.
Joyce Meyer: So, when you start feeling insignificant, or bad, or little, or guilty, that's not the way God deals with people.
Ginger Stache: I think there's something also to be said about how we can help one another through this. Women supporting other women instead of being comparing, or being jealous, or whatever. We can help each other so much by encouraging one another and sharing the truth of God's word. I remember, one time, and this was a few years ago, when we were doing a conference. And when I came off the stage, you leaned over to me and you said the sweetest thing, and it's just helped me and stuck with me for the longest time. You just said, "You do such a good job. I see so much of myself in what you do out there". And it just meant the world to me. And we can encourage each other in that way. To say, "Jai, you really connected with people on the stage there," you know? And whatever it is. I see so much in Erin as she's leading people and how much people respect and love her. And to see the good in other people that they don't always see in themselves is huge.
Joyce Meyer: Nobody's ever gonna be offended if you compliment them. And it, I mean, you, we've all had this happen. You say one kind thing to somebody and then they'll say later, "You know, you probably didn't know it, but you turned my whole day around". And so, we do need to compliment people more and we need to build people up more. But you know, we're talking about women all the time. Let's talk for just a minute about men.
Ginger Stache: We do have a lot of guys who bear with us.
Joyce Meyer: Do men ever feel insignificant? What if you're married to a woman who's got a career and she, oh, well, let's just talk about Dave and i. You know, Dave is not the one up front, most of the time, I am. And people always wanna know, "Well, how does Dave feel about you doing what you're doing, and he's just sitting down there watching you"? And you know, Dave found out, in the very beginning, God spoke to his heart, and he said, if you do what I'm calling you to do, you'll be happy. You'll have joy. If you let her do what she's called to do, you'll have joy". When we try to do, what we're not called to do, then we don't have joy. And Dave, he knows that he is my covering. He knows that he's like a supernatural protection for me, and we get along just great. But I'm also very much aware that when I'm on the platform, I'm the teacher. But when I come down off the platform, I'm his wife. And God told me a long time ago, you're not Dave's teacher.
Erin Cluley: Oh, that's good.
Joyce Meyer: And so, you have to be able to separate your roles. You know, if a woman has a great job, and say, she's making more money than her husband, or she's in a position where she gets more attention than he does, she needs to use wisdom, and build him up. And he needs to be secure enough to let her be all that she can be, and not be in competition with her, all the time.
Erin Cluley: We had this conversation years ago, when we had our first child. Mike stayed home with him, and I worked. And that is not what you do. I mean, it's more common now. But even then, I felt like it was kind of a new thing. And I asked him, "Like, does this bother you at all? Because that's not a common role for a man to have". And it was the same way that Dave responded to you was, "I know this is what we're supposed to do. I feel good about it. We know you're supposed to go back to work. You want to, and I wanna be home. So, this is where we are". And so, to see him as the head of our home, be cool with it looking different because this is where we saw God calling us to, I can't explain what that did for my heart. Like, as the woman, trusting him, that it's ok, that our home looks a little bit different because that's where God has called us to go.
Ginger Stache: And he saw the value in that role.
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Ginger Stache: When I don't know, maybe somebody else might look at that and not see the value in it. He saw it as a calling.
Erin Cluley: And he took it very seriously, because he knew that's where he was supposed to be. So, that was his job, and he did the best he could with it. So, it looked different than the other men that he was friends with, but that's where he was called. So, I learned a lot from him, in that season.
Joyce Meyer: I think Dave doing what he did, I think it's been an encouragement and continues to be an encouragement to other men. Because a lot of men really just, they're just not secure enough to let their wives be who God is calling them to be. And Dave has been blessed because he's, you know, let me fulfill the call on my life.
Jai Williams: It's been really interesting now that I'm back in the dating world.
Erin Cluley: Bless you.
Joyce Meyer: She's dating everybody. She wants you to know that.
Jai Williams: Hear ye, hear ye.
Joyce Meyer: Hear ye, Jai is dating!
Jai Williams: I'm dating!
Joyce Meyer: Call everyone you know, Jai is dating!
Jai Williams: But it's been so interesting, in the new dating world, like the balance between me really sharing all the things that I do, versus kind of holding back a little bit, because I don't want to sound too successful cuz I'm not.
Erin Cluley: Like too much.
Jai Williams: You know, like, I'm too much. You know, because I am a leader, I do a lot...
Joyce Meyer: I would hold back a little in the beginning.
Jai Williams: I have been a little bit, but have been a little bit but...
Ginger Stache: It's like peeling an onion.
Jai Williams: Exactly, the layers. Lots of layers.
Ginger Stache: Without the stink. Just always good things.
Jai Williams: Just always great things. We like, but one of the guys that I've been, that I've dated so far, he was, he played professional ball and he ended up hurting himself and had to quit playing. And so, he's in a place where he's not feeling that great about himself, because his dream has now been deferred. And so, like, there's been an interesting balance of like, even on, like dating him, or like going on different dates with different guys, "What do I share? What do I not"? You know, cuz, I don't want, because I did struggle with that in my previous marriage, where there was a bit of a clash because I was on platforms a lot more than he was. And later on, I found out he wanted to be more on, you know, and so, it's just like...
Joyce Meyer: Use a lot of wisdom, honey.
Jai Williams: I need your help then! Help me. I wanna know,I'm watching. I'm watching, so I don't share everything I do. I usually, I lead out with what I went to school for, you know.
Erin Cluley: Well, that's a good start.
Jai Williams: You know, I don't say all the other things.
Joyce Meyer: "I sing".
Jai Williams: I don't even tell them that, cuz they might Google me. So, I just like, "Don't tell them that even". Like, I just kinda just say, like, "You know, I went to school for marketing". You know, I start there and then I, if I see that they actually like me, for me, then, I slowly start sharing a little bit more. But I haven't gotten too far. Because I haven't, I'm just now starting.
Joyce Meyer: I'll tell you the truth, when you are in a public role, like you are, or like I am, you have to have the right man. I mean, I know that God supernaturally put Dave and I together. I mean, you all know the story. We had five dates and asked me to marry him. And I was just looney tunes. So, I always tell him, he either had to be hearing from God, or he had to be a little bit off, one of the two. And he said the first night that he met me, he knew that I was the girl he was going to marry. He, I don't know what was wrong with the guy, but he prayed that God would give him a wife and make it somebody that needed help. And I said, "Well, you got that prayer answered". You got some powerful prayers.
Jai Williams: Be careful what you pray for.
Joyce Meyer: Because I needed as much help as I could get and he, we were married three weeks, and he looked at me, and he said, "What's wrong with you"? See, we didn't date long enough for him to figure out I had all these problems. I didn't think anything was wrong with me. I thought he had problems and he needed to change. All I wanted him to do was keep me happy, and it was impossible because I wasn't, anyway, you know, we had problems, problems, problems. And,but God definitely gave me the right man. And I do think when you're in a position like you are, God has to bring the right person.
Ginger Stache: We all have so much baggage, you know? I mean, we all have hurts in life. We all have different things that make us feel like we're damaged or we're not enough. "God can no longer use me, I've made too many mistakes". "I've missed the opportunities". So, Joyce, let me ask you this. What would you say to any of our friends who are watching right now, who really want to be used by God, but they're just not sure if they have what it takes?
Joyce Meyer: Well, you don't have what it takes. That's the good news. You don't have what it takes, but God does. And so, it's so important to remember that you don't need, you don't need to have ability. I mean, my voice is heard in 100 languages in two thirds of the world every day. I'm not dumb enough to think the whole world is listening, but somebody is. And I almost failed English. And so, I'm speaking 100 different, they think I'm speaking 100 different languages. I remember being in a hotel, one time, and there was a Spanish man that was doing some work in the hall, and he looked at somebody with me, said, "Oh, she speaks English too"? He really thought that Spanish was my first language. So, they do a good job making it look like I'm speaking their languages. So, I mean, I can tell you that I am not, in the least, qualified naturally, to do what I'm doing. I mean, I have a high school education. I never have had one class in public speaking. I never had a class on how to put a sermon together. God led me by the Holy Spirit, one step at a time. And if you're just bold enough to step out, and do what you believe God is calling you to do, and if it doesn't work, step back. Step out again. Sometime, you know, a lot of people want to know what God wants them to do, and I always say, "Step out and find out". But you have to not, I always tell people, you have to not be afraid to make a mistake in order to find out if you're ever going to succeed. You have to not be afraid to fail to ever succeed. Because not everything you try to do is gonna work out. But the good news is, is you don't have what it takes, but God does. And if you feel like God wants to use you, then step out and find out.
Erin Cluley: I have another one. Can I ask her another one?
Ginger Stache: Absolutely, of course. Go for it.
Erin Cluley: And Jai, you can speak to this more too. A lot of times, when I am talking to friends, the ones I hear talking about feeling insignificant or not enough, are ones who aren't married and they want to be, or friends who want to have a baby, and they, God hasn't given them one yet. And that feeling, because I relate to that on some levels of like, I've thought, "I've done everything I can, but it's not enough, or he doesn't see me. And there's this thing I want so badly". So, what do you say to that?
Joyce Meyer: Well, it all comes down to what Ginger started with about knowing who you are in Christ, and trusting him, trusting his timing in your life. And it's not, it's not being married that gives you significance. It's God that gives all of us significance. You know, maybe, I mean, I remember when I was in leadership at the church that I went to for many years, and then, when God called me out into the ministry, I have now, when I would go to church, I wasn't part of the leadership team anymore, and so I felt very, like I didn't belong. I didn't know where I belonged. But, as long as, we're doing what God wants us to do, it's not about what everybody else has. "Well, everybody's married, so I should be married". Well, maybe not. You know, maybe, somebody becomes a widow, or a widower, and then, all of a sudden, they think they don't fit in with married people anymore. But you really fit in everywhere if you have the confidence that you need, and you're comfortable knowing that as long as you have God with you, you are more than enough in any situation.
Jai Williams: Yeah, and last week, I really tussled with something. That was really, really hard. And I didn't share it with you guys. It was really, I had a really tough moment. God is so kind to me because he gives me,he gives me like, little nuggets to say, "Hey, brace yourself for this". Sometimes, I used to think it was kind of mean, cuz I'm like, "Don't tell me". But then, I'm grateful that he conditions my heart for what's to come. And he told me that my ex and his new wife are discussing having children. And it washed over me. Like, I don't know what, it was hard. Because my ex and I had decided when I had tumors that were, that they thought could potentially be cancerous, I got a hysterectomy. And that was a decision that we made together, because we had decided together, that we weren't gonna have children anymore. And that is one of the hardest things, already, like even, with dating, now, that I talk to guys. Like, if a guy doesn't have kids, I'm like, "Well, then there's no way I can even think of dating that guy because he'll want kids". And I just, I can't, you know. And so...
Joyce Meyer: But you can't think like that because maybe he doesn't.
Jai Williams: Exactly, but that's what Satan was telling me. Like, that's just, I was just like, "Neh, eh, eh..." You know, even though, there are, I still apparently, have my ovaries or whatever, but that's a whole another Talk It Out.
Joyce Meyer: Maybe we won't talk that one out.
Jai Williams: We won't talk that one out, but I'm just saying, but like, having that wash over me of like, that I took that, that was a decision that I made in my covenant marriage, that I was planning on being with forever. And now, he's able to still have kids with someone else. You know, I felt so little. I felt so like, I can't.
Joyce Meyer: So, it kinda sounds like, from what everybody here is saying, that this is a battle that you fight pretty regularly.
Erin Cluley: Absolutely.
Joyce Meyer: So, don't be surprised, all of our lovely friends at home, if this is something that comes up on a regular basis, because Satan uses it all the time to try to belittle you. The devil wants to make you feel insignificant and little. But with God, you are more than enough in any situation, whether you're single, whether you're married, whether you've got a college degree, or you don't have a college degree. God makes us equal to everybody else.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, I kind of think about it. This is an analogy, I guess, that I've learned, has really helped me. When I am feeling insignificant, when I am feeling like I'm just not enough, that God can't use me, it's almost like being spiritually dehydrated. Right? And I carry this water bottle around all the time. And what I'll find sometimes is, you know, all day long, I'll just take little sips. And by the end of the day, it's still full. Like, I got nowhere. But if,what I did instead is, I'll purposefully take some deep drinks. You know, if I make myself drink this instead of just playing with it, and holding it, and carrying it, and thinking, that's enough, if I really drink from this, I'll refill it a couple times through the day, and I'm no longer dehydrated. And I think that when we're feeling like we're not enough, it's the same thing, we need to really drink and the Word of God. Are we playing with it? Are we thinking, "Yeah, maybe it's good for someone else, but I'm not letting it soak into me? Or am I really drinking in who he says I am, and what he has for me," and purposefully taking some nice big pulls on the water bottle instead of having dry, itchy skin?
Jai Williams: It's being intentional.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, it is. We have to do it on purpose.
Jai Williams: Going through this season of feeling this way, and really battling with Satan about this, you know, and feeling insignificant, I've literally, in the morning, because, like you said, when I first wake up, he would be right here to remind me of every failure, everything that happened. And I've literally, now, before I get up, I say at least three things that I'm thankful for. And then, I affirm, say, affirming things. At least three affirming things before I get out of bed just like, "I am loved. I am more than a conqueror. I am beautiful. I am successful". You know, just it's intentionally taking those big gulps, and not just waiting for it to just happen. You have to be intentional with it.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, well, that is our prayer for all of you. Just like everyone's been saying, that you can really understand how big God's love for you is and how big his plans for you are. So, we have a resource for you. It is a paperback book, that you can get called "Living beyond your feelings". And we're going to make that available to you at joycemeyer.org/talkitout. So, get "Living beyond your feelings," which is a great book from Joyce.
Joyce Meyer: It sounds like I wrote that.
Ginger Stache: You know what?
Erin Cluley: I think you did.
Ginger Stache: I know the author. I know the author.
Erin Cluley: She's really good.
Joyce Meyer: So I can tell ya, it's a good book.
Ginger Stache: Thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it. Thank you all for sharing your lives and your hearts today. And just for encouraging all of us. God has good stuff for us.
Joyce Meyer: So, now, today, everybody feels significant after hearing this.
Ginger Stache: Yep. And whether you feel it or not, you are significant.
Joyce Meyer: Yes, amen.
Ginger Stache: We'll see you next time, bye.
Joyce Meyer: Bye.