Joyce Meyer - Finding Peace In A Stressed-Out World
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Ginger Stache: Hi, beautiful, come on in here. This is Joyce Meyer's Talk It Out podcast, where Joyce teaches the Word of God in her practical, no-nonsense way, and my friends and I talk about the real stuff of living it, and we don't hold anything back. I'm Ginger Stache, with Jai and Erin Cluley, three friends all in very different and ornery places in life, because I'm watching your faces as I say these things.
Erin Cluley: She's looking at somebody else.
Ginger Stache: And of course, Joyce is one of the girls, too, so she pops in very regularly so that we can pummel her with questions and glean her wisdom. So, come on in, consider yourself one of us, because sometimes you need to talk about life with your girlfriends.
Jai Williams: Yes.
Ginger Stache: So, consider yourself one of us, and let's Talk It Out because we need this today. We need this session. We're gonna talk about stress. But before we jump right into that and this is kind of a good springboard, remember, a few weeks ago we had our gripe session. We talked about complaining, and we were going to try to do much less, a year without quite so much complaining. How's it going for you guys? That's what I thought.
Jai Williams: I'm doing, I'm more aware. You know, I'm more aware and I do a lot more self-checking than I've done, like, when you're not intentionally paying attention to it. Since that,since we did that episode, I have been more aware. And then, Joyce's book released. And, you know, like, what you guys are running, you know, even on socials with the gratitude, the challenge for gratitude. Like that's helped me, you know, even process like, instead of griping, let's be more grateful. So, I'm doing better.
Erin Cluley: I acted it out last night and it worked.
Jai Williams: Wait, how did you act it out?
Erin Cluley: So, I mean, it happened. Like a situation happened and I was very angry. I was very mad.
Ginger Stache: Me too!
Erin Cluley: You were too?
Ginger Stache: I wanna hear yours.
Erin Cluley: Ok, I was mad. I was very angry with a person.
Jai Williams: An adult or a child?
Erin Cluley: It was an adult.
Jai Williams: Oh, ok.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so, I left the house because I was gonna go run, which that's a good,we'll talk about that later today. That's a good way to release things. But that was,it was going to be an Erin conversation, and I could just like for 30 minutes, I could just roll over in my mind why I was so angry. But while we were out there,we, myself and I remembered what we had talked about and how we were being thankful and grateful. And so, God just put on my heart, "Think about that situation and all the things you can thank around it". So, I did. And it's amazing how that shifted something inside of me. Like, I could physically feel the release of that frustration.
Ginger Stache: Oh, that's great.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, it was really cool.
Ginger Stache: So, you put it into action.
Erin Cluley: I did.
Ginger Stache: It really made a difference.
Erin Cluley: Yeah. It's like what God says, it works, in his word.
Jai Williams: Wow. Shocker.
Erin Cluley: It's no wonder Joyce wrote a book about it. Why were you mad?
Ginger Stache: Well, I was going to bed last night, and all the lights were off, and I stepped and heard this crunch on the floor. And then, I started looking around, and there was mud tracked through the house. I wasn't,this wasn't what made me mad. You know, life happens. That wasn't it. But,so, tim had just taken the dog out and came back in and he was getting ready for bed. And so, he said something to me, and I said very nicely, mind you, very, very nicely. I wasn't upset. I said, "Hey, you might want to check those shoes that you just took off because there's mud through the house, so you must have tracked some mud in".
Erin Cluley: Yeah, that was ok.
Ginger Stache: I was trying to be helpful. And he got angry and he said, "Well, I didn't do it on purpose"! And instantly, I'm like, "I didn't say, you did it on purpose. I'm trying to be helpful". And you know, you know where things go from there.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, I do.
Ginger Stache: And so, but I did what you said. So, we're, you're not supposed to let the sun go down on your anger. That's what the Bible says.
Erin Cluley: It does.
Jai Williams: Sun's already down.
Ginger Stache: Exactly. Exactly.
Jai Williams: Yeah.
Ginger Stache: But I started doing what we talked about. I started, instead of escalating the conversation, which is what I like to do. Because I'm really good at arguing, I can do it really well.
Erin Cluley: You can. You're good.
Ginger Stache: Thank you. That means a lot to me.
Erin Cluley: I learn a lot from you. I'm pretty good at it too.
Ginger Stache: So, instead of continuing to run my mouth, I just started thinking, I'm grateful that he took the dog out, you know, that I didn't have to do it, because we can't let our little twitchy dog out after dark by himself because we have predators where we live, as far as larger animals that see him as prey. So, anyway, so I was grateful.
Jai Williams: And me. I'm terrified of your house at night. The deer.
Ginger Stache: The deer are everywhere. As well as, you know, the occasional mountain lion, and bear or whatever else. So, yeah. So, I started thinking about, "Ok, I'm glad that he did it anyway". But then, he said, it just got a little bit worse. I said, "Did you have to go out in the mud"? Because usually you don't have to do that when you're taking the dog out. Because I kept talking like I shouldn't have. And he said, "Well, I was stamping down the molehills". So, then, I thought, "Wait a minute. You were stepping down the molehills and didn't think when you came in, maybe your shoes would be muddy. You did do it on purpose". So, instead, I quieted myself, and I'm like, "Ok, God, thank you that he's taking care of those molehills, that he took the dog out". I tried all those things that I was grateful for, instead. And it really did help. I shut my mouth. We went to sleep. This morning, you know, we said, "Hey," we both said, "Hey," you know, "Sorry about last night".
Jai Williams: Were the footprints still there or did he clean it?
Ginger Stache: He cleaned it up in the morning before I even got up.
Jai Williams: That helps.
Ginger Stache: And it's so not like him. He doesn't get upset over things like that. So, there's always other things going on in our lives and trying to think of like, you know, don't make a mountain out of a molehill...
Jai Williams: Literally.
Ginger Stache: I did that on accident.
Erin Cluley: But it applied really nicely.
Ginger Stache: Anyway, so it does work.
Erin Cluley: It does. I think it's really good.
Ginger Stache: Yeah. And in talking about stress today, I cannot tell you how much I need this conversation. I'm so glad for you guys. I'm so glad for all of you, that we can talk about this together today. Because we are in a very, very stressful time. There's just no way around it. And I think about everything that's going on in everyone's lives with the pandemic, with their children in school and not knowing if they're going to be in or out, with not being able to travel, not being able to plan on anything, and have it continue with losing people that they love, with all of the things that are happening. And you kind of feel like things are just being taken from you, on a regular basis. And that's,it's so stressful.
Jai Williams: It's extremely like,we were just talking before, you know, before we started, and I was just telling you guys how stressful this time is. We were talking about the pandemic, we're talking about like even there's a conference I was supposed to speak at, but that's gotten taken away, and something else I was supposed to do, that's being delayed. I was supposed to actually, do something at the grammys and that got, you know. You know, it's just like every time was like, it's something. So, that's kind of stressful. But then, on top of that, it's just the health concern with everyone. Who would have thought that we would still be in this situation, in this position and predicament, what, two years later, you know? Like, we knew it was going to be a long time, but who knew the lasting effects? But I was just like, man, every day I either look on social media, or on tv, or get a call that someone that I knew of or loved from TV growing up, you know, has passed away. And it's like, people have been passing away all of our lives, of course, you know, but it just,it's,the stress is like, it's heightened because so many people are sick. You know, like, with the different thing, with COVID, with, you know, like isolating. It's a very stressful time.
Ginger Stache: It is.
Erin Cluley: And I think we have been tasked with almost trying to play God, in a way, which is stressful, like, do you do this because this is the right choice, because this will help you live longer, versus this, and all the different opinions. That aside like, how am I supposed to know what is the right decision to make when I don't know what's gonna happen? I can't predict the future. That's God's job. So, how do I make decisions and not feel that stress in every area of my life?
Ginger Stache: And just the dissension that it's brought between people who feel different ways.
Erin Cluley: It's really hard.
Ginger Stache: And it's very difficult coming between families. And I think of health care workers and how hard they're working and the hours that they're putting in, what's going on there. It's so hard to find employees, all the businesses that are failing, and the people who are working so many hours because there aren't other people available. I mean, there are just so, so many things.
Erin Cluley: We were just talking, a couple of coworkers and I, about teachers, and the education system, and shout out to the teachers because y'all are the MVP's. Watching them and our principal of our school every week, and it's actually, like, it's a minute by minute decisions that they're making and trying to make as many people happy and keep their schools safe. And you have so many opinions, yet, you are responsible for this group of children to keep them safe and healthy. And also, here's how you learn. I want to provide your education. And so, I'm just blown away with that. But that's stressful for them. Stressful of the parent. So, it's just so much.
Ginger Stache: And beyond that, let's just pull the pandemic out. Life is still just stressful.
Jai Williams: Life is still going on.
Ginger Stache: Exactly, we still have everything else that we've always been stressed over, on top of all of it. So, Joyce was talking about the fact that stress is the disease of this century. Like, it is a multi-billion-dollar industry. Just helping people deal with stress. And that it's not God's will for us to live with that kind of stress in our life. And she is a woman who knows what she's talking about because she has been there herself. So, we're gonna start with her explaining what stress has meant in her life.
Joyce Meyer: Let me share my journey of stress with you a little bit so you know that I know what I'm talkin' about. First of all, I was sexually abused by my father for many years, married the first guy that came along because I thought nobody would ever want me, and he was a con artist and a petty crook and ended up goin' to jail for stealing, and that was a 5-year nightmare on top of an 18-year nightmare. So, now, I'm in my 20s. I'm 23, and I'm just messed up, you know, just,it's amazing how many people look good on the outside, but, boy, they are messed up, amen? And I think I, they created the word "Dysfunction" for me, you know? I just,see, that's why I am just so radical about the Word of God because this is what has changed me. And not just reading it but receiving it, loving it, obeying it, and it's been a 40-year journey, but let me tell you what. The Word of God will work in your life if you will do what it tells you to do. And don't give me that "I can't" because anything that God tells us to do he will give us the ability to do it if we're willing. So I was, I worried. I was full of fear. I was angry. I was insecure. I tried to find value, I didn't feel good about myself, so I tried to find value in my work and in accomplishment, so I just about worked myself to death. Anybody been there and done that, amen? I had physical problems from all the stress. I created problems in all my personal relationships because I was on overload all the time. Do you know if you're stressed out all the time you are not easy to get along with? Period, end of the conversation. I was even a Christian and in full-time ministry, and I still had all of these problems. Being saved doesn't guarantee that you won't have these problems. Not only do we need to be,does our spirit need to be redeemed, which is what happens at the new birth, but our soul needs to be saved, and that's your mind, your will, and your emotions. It's how you think about things, how you react to things, the decisions that we all make. And that's why I love James 1:21, I believe, that says, "Receive the Word of God with meekness, for it contains the power to save your souls". I wanna tell you tonight while I'm sharing the word with you your mind is being renewed. That means your mind is changing as you sit in here tonight. You're gonna change the way that you think about some things, and if you change the way you think about some things it's gonna change the way you talk. And when you change the way you think and the way you talk, it begins to change your attitude, and then that begins to change your behavior. And then all of a sudden everything out here can't control you anymore. And it's really quite amusing, because once you get to that point, people just don't get you at all.
Ginger Stache: So, we are already jumping right into the good advice. Honestly, because when we're stressed, I found this to be true in my life. It is so much about those outward things controlling me because I'm allowing them to, not because they automatically have that kind of power over my life, in every situation. It's when things pile up and I react, or think in the wrong way, is when I'm allowing them to control me and to build up that stress. So, what we're talking about here is, what do we do differently? How do we how do we fix this?
Jai Williams: Yeah, one of the things, I mean, you all already started talking about it. It's really what Joyce just said in that clip, and what you guys were saying earlier when you were faced with some tough situations that could have caused you to spiral more. Like, there are active things that you can do. Like you got up and you went for a run, you know. Like you immediately changed how you were talking. So, those,it's a simple thing,that doesn't mean that the situation is going to be alleviated or like, go away per se in that moment. But it can relieve some of the pressure if we shift our mindset and put that energy towards something more productive. You know, so that's one, like, you guys already kind of started talking about it.
Erin Cluley: Look at us!
Jai Williams: You experts.
Ginger Stache: Whoo!
Erin Cluley: One more, that was terrible.
Ginger Stache: I know it's like, we missed! Yay! That was so stressful.
Erin Cluley: Let's not even try again. I don't wanna mess up. One word that comes to mind, when you say that, is self-control. Because in that moment, and when I feel stressed, I had the decision to make. I could lash back out and gone with my feelings, in that moment. Because I felt stressed or I could pause and walk away, which is really humbling, I think, because I knew I was right. But I think it takes so much self-control to do like what you did. Like, you paused, and you let the Holy Spirit speak to you in your moment of stress and frustration. But that is so hard. Like, it goes against what we feel. But you have to just push past that.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, doing exactly what you said. Not always doing what we feel. Not always saying what I want to say. It doesn't seem like that would connect to stress, but it really does.
Erin Cluley: And even the opposite, like sometimes I get stressed because I've over-committed myself because I don't want to tell you no and I don't want to let you down, so. And in the moment, it sounds really fun. I really want, to want to be there. So, I might commit myself to something when really, I should have had enough self-control to pause first and say, "Erin, is this really something you actually want to do or have the capacity"? Instead of going with my feelings.
Ginger Stache: You made a commitment, a few years back, to change stress in your life. You,you're looking at me like, you're...
Erin Cluley: Oh, I did.
Ginger Stache: Like, you're not sure 'cause I wanna make sure. Uh-huh, uh-huh, no, so, yeah, so, that,what I understand is that there was a point that things were changing for you, and you knew that it would kind of change your life.
Erin Cluley: Yeah.
Ginger Stache: And you made a decision on how to deal things in a different way so that stress wouldn't become such a problem.
Erin Cluley: You are telling the truth.
Ginger Stache: I'm seriously asking you this because I don't think I've ever heard this from you. I heard it from somebody else.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, I'm glad that Megan told you, 'cause she reminded me too, I'm glad that she remembered, I said all this. I,when we moved back from Tulsa back to here, and so, I took this new job. I knew that I had to make some, I had to set up some boundaries in my life right away because I knew my life was going to get more full with my job. And also, my kids will grow and do more stuff. And so, I felt so strongly that I needed to make some boundaries for our family. So, like, little things I put in place then, that we still act out now is nap time on weekends. My kids don't need naps. But I will make them go to their room for quiet time because I need an hour and a half by myself. I need to either lay down and watch a show or read a book or do nothing, but that is a precious time in our house. I won't go hang out with friends then. But that's my time in my home. Weeknights, I don't commit to things unless it's something really special or important to me. But I don't hang out with friends in the week, because that is family time after work, and I need it for my mind to be clear to do the rest of the things I've committed to. So, those are some of the boundaries.
Ginger Stache: So, setting some of those boundaries because it is so easy to over-commit, and find yourself running.
Erin Cluley: Oh yeah.
Ginger Stache: Working all day, running all night, then doing even more on the weekend.
Erin Cluley: Absolutely. Like, in college, I would say yes to everything. I was the president of every club that I could find. Because "Erin, you do it". "Sure, that's so fun. Let's do it". And then, I had no time, and I was stressed all the time. And even like, as an adult, "I wanna be your friend, and your friend, and yours, and let's go to all of the things," and then, I'm exhausted and mad and stressed out.
Jai Williams: But isn't it funny how like, we talk about this at the beginning of every episode of how we're all in different stages of life? And that I remember being in that stage when my daughter was younger and when I was in my marriage and very committed to ministry and still had a full-time job, just all kinds of things. But now, what causes me stress sometimes, is silence. Because everything has been stripped away from me. I just, a lot of times it's like, I need to find things to do to keep my mind preoccupied, like it's only so, like I don't wanna read, I don't want to listen to a podcast, I don't wanna listen to audio book, I don't, I want human interaction, you know, as much as I can within the confines of, like, you know, the pandemic. But it's like, I need things to do, you know, because I just, like I said, we're in different phases. But I remember when I would have to say no a lot because I would over commit and then be exhausted for the things I needed to do as a mom and a wife, and all the other things I did. But now, being back in this place, almost where I was in college, but a lot more, a lot wiser, a lot older. You know, I can't do everything, but I still find myself doing a lot more than I did even several years ago. And it actually rejuvenates me. It refuels me.
Ginger Stache: That's so good because it's not about a one and done answer for everyone in stress. It's about realizing what your triggers are. What your stress point is right now. And what are you going to do about it, to alleviate some of its influence in your life?
Jai Williams: And be flexible that it'll,it could change?
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Jai Williams: What might be good now, might not be good next year or the year after, or next month.
Ginger Stache: That's so true.
Jai Williams: It's like, whatever that thing is now, that will cause you peace, like, I'm,like all I fight for now is peace. Like, it's like, if it doesn't bring me peace, I don't want it. Like, I have enough things that I can't control that cause me stress, that cause me anxiety, that everybody's talking about depression right now. I mean, like, it's heavier now, I believe, culturally in our,in America, especially like, it's just more talked about now. Everybody's a lot more aware of it because I think of the times that we're in, we were able to retract, pull back and actually process all the things that were going on. But now, it's time to say like, "Ok, this isn't going away for right now, like the pandemic's still here, how do we function and learn how to manage this stress and manage the stress that was already here before it, and keep living and moving forward? And I think that's why this conversation is super, super helpful to give people tools".
Ginger Stache: Well, let's go back to Joyce and especially to what God's word says, and talk more about some of those tools that will really help us through this.
Joyce Meyer: Colossians 3:15: "Let the peace of Christ act as an umpire continually in your hearts, deciding and settling with finality, all questions that arise in your mind". "Should I do this? Shouldn't I do this"? "Should I say, 'yes' to the marriage proposal? Should I say, 'no'"? "Should I spend this money"? "Should I buy this new car? Should I not buy this new car"? Everything,every decision should be made based on what you have peace about. Not what you want. Come on, not what you want. Because, frankly, we are not smart enough, most of the time, to know what we want. We may think we know what we want. But until you have some experience in life and you learn the ramifications of some of the things that you want, you know, you get a bigger house now, you got a bigger house to clean, and you've got a bigger house payment. But when we only go by wants, it's all just an emotional thing. "I want, I want, I want..." But what about peace? Boy, some of the messes that people have in their lives right now, you would not have at all if you would have followed peace. Just follow your heart. 1 Peter 3:11, "Let him turn away from wickedness and shun it, and let him do right. Let him search for peace (harmony: undisturbedness from fears, agitating passions, and moral conflicts) and let him seek it eagerly". Now, watch this. "[do not merely desire peaceful relations with God, with your fellowmen, and with yourself, but pursue and go after them!]" now, that scripture helped me a lot because I finally saw that I wasn't gonna get peace by just saying, "Oh God, give me peace. Oh God, give me peace. God please give me peace, give me peace. Well, I'm praying for peace but I just don't feel peaceful. Will you pray for me for peace"? Well, I'll pray for you that your eyes will be opened and you'll realize that you have all the peace living in your heart that you'll ever need if you'll let him rise up. Amen? And it took, you know, it was a lot of years, a lot of years for me to begin to get this understanding. I think sometimes we pray wrong. We're praying for stuff we've already got and just not making use of.
Ginger Stache: It's that peace thing you were talking about.
Jai Williams: Mm-hmm... So good. Just one of those things that, literally, that's the season I'm in. And, honestly, I should always be in it, but I wasn't always trying to find peace. Sometimes, I used to struggle to want to be understood, or to be heard or to, you know, whatever else. But like, now, peace, even before I wake up, 'cause like I said, I feel, a lot of times I feel the most stressed when I wake up in the morning. Like, I believe Satan is like, right there in my, like, I'm laying there and he right there, you know. Like, you know, cuz he wants, like someone said, like, you got those brand-new mercies every morning, he's tryin' to steal those, you know. So, even before I get out of bed, I feel sometimes I could feel like the heaviness of whatever I had processed last night or the anxiety of what I was going to think about today, especially, when I was first going through the divorce. It was just like, "What else is going to happen? Is there gonna be another," so, like, now, I'm just like, "Ok, whatever happens is going to happen". But I just say, like, literally like, "Let God arise, and let the enemies be scattered, like peace wash over me". You know, like, I literally pray that before I get up, cuz peace is what I want. I don't want, we're gonna have conflict. We're gonna have things that...
Erin Cluley: Life.
Jai Williams: Life,we're going to have things that, and I think those things, I truly believe that those things do make us better. Like if everything was just beautiful and roses all the time, we wouldn't even be able to tell when God was,came through for us. Like, or well, you know, like so even in this situation I've been in, it's like, I see now,I'm seeing the good in it. You know, I'm seeing God do, make, you know, make something beautiful out of something that was really ugly. You know, but it's like, we need those things, through those trials, we have to fight for peace.
Ginger Stache: That's good.
Erin Cluley: You know that verse in John 14? "My peace I give you, my peace I leave with you. I do not give it as the world gives it". I was thinking about that. That is,that says so much for where we are as a culture right now. Because the world says this is how you get peace. This is how you have no stress.
Ginger Stache: Do it all right.
Erin Cluley: Exactly.
Ginger Stache: Get all your ducks in a row, make sure everything's in order.
Erin Cluley: Exactly. And have the big home, like Joyce was saying, with the fancy car.
Ginger Stache: Have control.
Erin Cluley: Yes, there's nothing wrong with having those things, but it does add another level of stress. But that's the formula that the world might tell you, "Here's how to live right". But God approaches things so different, and his peace is so different.
Ginger Stache: You know, I think it's really important for me to say this or for people that to hear this, I don't know, but I'm one of those people that doesn't feel the stress that I'm under. I don't think I'm stressed. And, you know, I kind of thrive on the energy and the adrenaline and the deadlines. And I love all that, but my body doesn't always see it the same way. So, people, out there who you think you're good on stress, your body may be feeling something different, and you know it when you start to get the eye twitch.
Erin Cluley: I was going to say, are they going today? Are your eyes twitching today?
Ginger Stache: Lately, I'll tell you, lately, I've been, you know... Like I'm in a swarm of mosquitoes, that's how I been lately. And I think it's so important to hear that. Is that right now, I am in a crazy time of feeling stress, and just being stressed. And as a leader, we need to be able to say that. We don't have to be perfect. We don't have to fix everybody else's stress. You know, somebody even said, as we were going to talk about this, "Tell them how you go through life without ever looking stressed". Well, that, you know, that just isn't accurate. And I don't even want people to think that. I want to be who I really am. And so, I think that's usually important. I've just come through a season that I have been dealing with a lot of stress, and because I'm not used to figuring out where it comes from or what to do with it, it's been a really important time for me is adjusting all of this. This summer, I actually, it makes me laugh cuz this is the way God is. He teaches you so much through the things that you are putting out there for others to help them, right? So, I wrote a book. And I wrote a book called "Chasing wonder," and it's all about taking the time, even through the busyness of life, even through our chaos and hectic schedules, to chase after the wonderful things that God has for us. So, in doing that, I got busier and busier, basically, doing two full time jobs. But doing what I do here and working on this book and feeling more, and more, and more stressed along the way. And all the different things that I talked about in that book, started failing in those areas. You know, like, talking about rejection, fighting against rejection, and all of a sudden, I'm starting feeling rejection in places that I have never dealt with before, in new ways that I have never dealt with it before. And asking myself those questions that we all have to ask, "What are we chasing after"? You know, what,' cause we're all chasing after something. And it adds more stress if we're chasing after the wrong things. And so, I actually, re-read my book and it's really good.
Jai Williams: It really is.
Erin Cluley: "I am so good, I like writing".
Ginger Stache: But it helped me so much to go back and refresh myself. And I think that's how Satan works. He starts to attack you in those places that you've spoken out about. And so, going back and reading what God has taught me through my life, in those areas, has helped me so much. And scriptures, on like, what you chase after, and fighting against rejection, and all these different things. I love this scripture about rejection. Let me read this to you, cuz it's so good. Nothing adds stress to your life like feeling no one's with you. No one's for you. You're rejected. And this is what God said to Samuel. This is in 1 Samuel, and he said, "They have not rejected you, but they are rejecting me from being king over them". As a leader, as a mom, don't you feel like, "No one's listening to me. No one's doing what I want". And we take it very personally. And sometimes, we have lessons to learn. But sometimes, God is saying, "It's not all about you. They're rejecting me being God and not always rejecting us in a personal way". So, not taking things so personal. And John, 6:37, this is Jesus. And he says, "All that the father gives me will come to me". So, we know that what God has for us, we're gonna get. "And whoever comes to me," to Jesus, "I will never cast out".
Erin Cluley: Oh, that's good.
Ginger Stache: So, that rejection that we feel so strongly, we can see that so differently when we know that Christ will never reject us and God will give us everything he wants us to have. So, I don't know. I've got,I've got so many different things. I've got all these notes that I started writing down dealing with stress in my life, and I'm just going to put my feet up and like, let you guys counsel me because...
Erin Cluley: This is fun!
Jai Williams: This is fun. We need this.
Ginger Stache: It's just,it's just so much happening in all of our worlds, and stress has been a big thing that God's been talking to us about.
Erin Cluley: You know what's so funny though, like, your book was so stressful to you, but through it, I found peace in some of my stressful situations.
Ginger Stache: Hmm.
Erin Cluley: So, there's something to that. We,let's unpack that. Because what I learned was in the things that cause me stress, like with my kids or something like, "Where's the joy that we can have in this situation"? And there is something fun in buying a puppy, right now. I should not have a puppy, but we have a puppy. I can't even tell you words cuz it's stressful! We're being honest. It's really hard. But like, where's the joy in cleaning up pee for the fifth time? It's because I know he's going to produce happiness, eventually. But like, it's so interesting that your stress caused me peace.
Jai Williams: But it's,it reminds me, like, in all of my years of ministry like that I've worked in, and served in, anything that was,and even with this,with this podcast, almost every topic that we would talk about, especially at the very, very beginning when I know Satan didn't want this to launch, to be able to reach the people, and you know, all of our friends out there like, I know it was an attack. And we were all, almost every topic we'd pray about or decide on, or ira, our producer, God bless him, because he causes me stress, but I'm supposed to act like he doesn't. I love him, y'all, but he's a lot.
Ginger Stache: We're gonna bring ira in, and set him down right here.
Jai Williams: Set him down cuz he's the topic of today's podcast. No, no. But I'm just saying, like, all of those topics that we've gone through, we were all almost like individually tested in those areas, either the week before or the week after.
Erin Cluley: Like two years in, every topic has been...
Jai Williams: Every,everything, and you know, it's kinda like, man, like, this is when I've even helped like young interns or people I've mentored, that say that they want to work in ministry, I'm like, "Are you sure"?
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Jai Williams: "Like, are you built for it"? I mean, it's great. But those of us that choose to speak out against the kingdom of darkness, and choose to talk about being a mom of toddlers or, you know...
Ginger Stache: And a puppy mom.
Jai Williams: And a puppy mom, you know.
Erin Cluley: I'm not putting it on my car, though.
Jai Williams: You know, Ginger, being so boldly about talking about her family, her marriage, her struggles in her marriage, like and her kids, her grandkids, now her book, and being a leader. And me starting off this journey, being a married woman in ministry and for all these years after being a virgin and marriage, and now have a teenage daughter and who,all those things that we boldly wanted to say, this is what God can do through the adversity, of course, he's going to attack that. And of course, but like, in that, that can either cause us stress or cause us to like, really lean on the Lord. Anybody that's struggling with anything, I just encourage you to like, press through it. Like, I know now that my family has literally been destroyed, like literally. But the influx of people that I've been able to help that are going through this like, and people being like, "You still talking about this," yes, because I was married for almost 20 years and that stuff hurts. And it's like, it's stressful being like, "What did I do wrong"? But the many people that I've been able to help, so many people that have been able to like, because of my honesty of what my perspective of my own wrongs, I've been able to help women, and they've been able to salvage their marriages. Like, Satan wants to stress us out so that we won't pursue the purpose. And so, just keep pushing through. This book is still helping people. It's still helping me. If it ain't helping nobody else, it's helping me and Erin. So, we're chasing adventure, chasing wonder.
Ginger Stache: Well, it is wonderful. I'm hearing great things from people. But I think it all comes back to what you were saying: where is it in our life right now, that we're feeling overwhelmed? I'm hearing people all the time, just today, using words like, "Buried under a pile of weight of what's happening with this world," like the ground is kind of crumbling beneath them. "Not sure how I'm going to make this work". I mean, people saying really serious, big things about the stress in their life and what's happening in the world right now. And the wonderful thing, and I think the most peaceful thing for us to chase after, is that God hasn't changed. That God knew all this was coming, that he prepared everything we need to be able to hold on to him. But we have to have the tools. We have to have the scriptures. And we have to know how to think. We have to know all these things to change them. So, it's not gonna happen just because we want it.
Jai Williams: No.
Ginger Stache: We have to start making changes in our lives and in our world.
Jai Williams: You have to choose. You have to choose to change. You have to choose to say,like, I know, like feeling that pressure and that weight of stress, you wanna stay silent a lot of times, you know.
Ginger Stache: Because if I don't speak out, I may not be attacked.
Jai Williams: Exactly, it's like, I don't wanna make things worse child.
Ginger Stache: You know what I mean, whether it's by people or by Satan.
Jai Williams: It's like, no. But we have to choose to speak life over the situation. We have to choose, even in my situation, I had to choose to believe that God hasn't changed. Because I felt like he did. I felt like he was gone. I felt like he left me hanging. Like, just being completely honest, I'm like, "Where were you and why? And why am I still feeling this way, this long after"? Like, you know, you start losing, you know, the whole thing about, "Hope deferred makes the heart sick". It's like, I'm waiting and I'm trying to believe.
Ginger Stache: Tell me, tell me, cuz I love you so much.
Jai Williams: Go ahead.
Ginger Stache: Tell me how you're working through that cuz I see it in you. I see you struggling to hold on, to hold on to God in your life, and to trust him, and to believe, in spite of what you're seeing, you know, in spite of the circumstances, I see you struggling to do that. People need to know how you're doing it.
Jai Williams: Hmm. I am choosing to believe. I'm choosing. Like, this stuff is stressful, it's still stressful. And to know, like, even my ex has gotten remarried even. And it's stressful. It's hurtful. And, I am, I surround myself with good people, too. Cuz I know, like, g will be like, "I know you're, I know you're having a tough time". She'll just text me stuff like that, like, I'm like, "I'm barely holdin' on". And this is somebody that's been in church all my life, like my dad's a pastor. Like, I literally, and if it had not been, like, if you don't know the word, if you're not reading the word, start reading now, when things are good, because like, "Your word that I've hidden in my heart that I might not sin against," the word, "Might" you know, "Might not sin against you," you know, like, thankfully, my mom instilled the Word of God inside of me. Like, I literally learned, we talked about this. Learned my ABCs through the word. Like, I've known the words. So, even when I couldn't open the Bible, because I really did, I really struggled like that was stressful for me. It was like, "God, like, I don't know what I believe anymore". And I felt like a hypocrite because I'm like, "How have I been able to, I don't. I can't speak the word over people and sing the word over people because I'm struggling". Like I'm struggling to believe all the things that I've always spoken and sung over. But like, it's hard. So, all I'm doing, I'm choosing, like, I could have quit doing this podcast, honestly. Like, y'all coulda let go of me,'cause y'all,you knew I was barely holding on. Like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But having people around that love the Lord but also see you as a person is helpful. Like, so get yourself some good friends. Get yourself some good people in your life. Seriously, if I can say that. If you're stressed out, surround yourself with good people because it will help you when you're not even, when you wanna be isolated. I didn't wanna be around anybody, but the people I wanted to be around, which were the people that left me. And so, I couldn't have that. So, the things that I can control is surrounding my friend group and making sure that I also got in to counseling. We've talked about this with Dr. Cloud and Joyce. Like counseling has been great. And I have multiple counselors, like, I'm, I don't feel like I'm fixed. I don't feel like I'm like, "I got this". No. And I also, even if I feel like I'm handling stress, I ask people, like, "Am I snapping at you? Am I like"...
Ginger Stache: Oh, that's good because you don't always know it when,
Jai Williams: A lot of people that I think,that they think that they're so cool and like not handling,handling stress, so good, it's like, "Yeah, but you just literally sliced everybody's head off with your words". Like, literally. So, it's like, just really keeping people around you, and trying to dig deep and find those scriptures that you knew all along, and just wake up every morning and do that, say things like, God, please just let this day be full of peace. Like no matter what comes my way," cuz, like I said, conflict and the enemy, it's his job to shoot darts at us. But you've gotta choose to say, "God, I put on the full armor today". Get up, go, no matter what comes my way, I'm gonna keep pushing forward.
Ginger Stache: I think that's what faith really is, isn't it? I mean, faith isn't,faith isn't just saying it. Faith is knowing it when you're not seeing it. Faith is so much more than just that word, "I believe". Faith is something deeper that comes out because it's so, so much of what you can't live without. It's the only answer. Because I have to have faith in something. "So, I'm going to trust this, even though I don't see the reality of it. I'm gonna hold on to this for dear life".
Erin Cluley: When I was in,gosh, I took this class at church, years ago, like, before I was married and had kids and all that. And so, we,sounds funny when you say it out loud, we got rings. We were supposed to buy our self a ring that signified what you learned from God during the class. So, this is the one that I got. And so, all these girls are picking like really pretty rings I had like, you know, flowers and ornate things on there. And I just kept praying. Like, I picked out a few that were cool looking, and they weren't right. And so, I was like, "God, what do you want"? And so, I found this band, and it's just a simple silver band. And to me, this message is still so important for things like this. "Strip everything away, Erin, and what do you have left"? Like, "If I took everything away," and when you walking, like everything you just said that feeling of having everything stripped away. What is left is his constant love for us. Like, he is good no matter what is going on in our world. So, that, to wear that as a reminder that, like, "If everything that you love or wanted was not there and all you had left with me, is that enough"? And that's something I try to remind myself of, like when I feel stressed and overwhelmed. Whether it's like a big thing like the world, or like my kitchen's really messy with dishes in the sink, like that stresses me out too. Take all the noise away of those situations, "And where are you, God? What are you doing right now? And what are you saying to me"? Find that peace. It's kind of a message that has helped me a lot in so many of these situations.
Jai Williams: I love that.
Ginger Stache: I love that, it's so good.
Jai Williams: I love that, you saying, like, "Where are you, God, in this"? Like, before you react. Like, "Where are you in this? And what do you want me to learn from this"?
Erin Cluley: Because like, for me, looking at you, I see so clearly where he is in you.
Jai Williams: The same way we look at Ginger with,you know, but that's the importance of having good people around you. You don't have to have a lot of people. Cuz I don't like a lot of people. But like, you...
Erin Cluley: Just a couple.
Jai Williams: Get a good couple, you know, maybe five? You know, you're top five. But if you like more than that, it's on you. But I'm just saying like, you have to,because "Iron sharpens iron". And also, like, we literally are God's hand and feet. Like, and so, when I can't see it, when I feel like I'm just a mess, you know, it's like, I have people around me that are like, "Girl, you still making it. You doing good...Dah, dah, dah". It's like, "Really"? You know, "I feel like this, but I guess I look like," that's the grace of God covering you. But you need somebody else that can look on the outside to help that. And so, we can say that to you about the book. We can say that to you about being a puppy mom. Like I don't really have nothin' to say other than puppies poop a lot and pee a lot. Eventually, they grow up.
Erin Cluley: It is what it is.
Jai Williams: They grow up.
Ginger Stache: You'll be glad later. I keep telling her that. You'll have so much love later.
Erin Cluley: When does the love come?
Ginger Stache: After the poop.
Jai Williams: After the poop.
Erin Cluley: Great, we got a ways to go.
Ginger Stache: Well, these are great action steps, and we're gonna go back to Joyce one more time and talk about some of those practical things that you can take away after this great conversation and decide what you're going to do.
Joyce Meyer: How many of you know right now, you know, that you know, that you know something, at least one thing, that you could change in your life that would give you less stress? Okay then, do it. I mean, there's nothing left to be said. It's one thing if you don't know what to do, but it's another thing if you know what the problem is and you just keep doing it over and over and over. You're not gonna get a different result if you don't change something in your life. I will not live all stressed out. I won't do it. Several years ago I made the comment, matter of fact it's been 9 years and I said, "I am not gonna live like this any longer. If something doesn't change for me in this ministry, we're gonna downsize it and make it smaller. Instead of trying to make it bigger and bigger, we're gonna make it smaller". Well, God had an answer ready for me, but I had to be prepared to make a change and that was we had to let our two sons, and who in the world wants your children telling you what to do? We had to let our two sons take over all the day-to-day operations of the ministry. And let me tell ya something, they've made it so much better than it was when I was doing it, but they don't do it the way I did. And boy, was that hard to navigate. When you come to the point, now listen to me, when you come to the point where you say, "I'm not gonna live like this anymore, I will not live like this anymore," God will start showing you things to do but then you're the one that has to say, "I'm gonna do it". You can say no to people. So what if they get mad? You don't have to do everything, that everybody wants you to do, to keep them happy. You gotta take care of you. You're responsible for taking care of you. I mean, the bottom line really, when you get down to it, is if you don't take care of you, who will? And there are people who love you and people will take care of you and do things for you, but I'm just trying to make a quick point here. If I don't care about myself then how can I expect anybody else to care about me? We're always going to do things for people. We're always going to go the extra mile and do things for people. I want to make people happy. We don't want to be the kind of person that will never do anything if it's not what we wanna do. But you can't let everybody else run your life. You can't do that. You have to be able to say no, to what you need to say no to.
Ginger Stache: Those are some really good action steps. When you put together some of the things that we've talked about today with what, Joyce has been talking about that the word says, it's, those things about saying no when you have to, and following peace, pursuing peace in your life. And I love what it says in John 3, that "He must become more and I must become less". You know, that's what so much of it is. It's us trying to gather all these things and the stuff that we think will make life better. But if we can do what you were saying, and just simplify, strip all those things away and see what's left, that really matters, that will change our stress level. So, it makes me wonder what everyone who's with us, all of us, are going to do. What are those practical steps that we're going to do to make a difference?
Jai Williams: I relinquish control as much as possible because it causes me less stress, because once,when I start to try to like, have the control over everything, I want to see it to the end. And I wanna see the result that I'm expecting.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, me too.
Jai Williams: And now, I just, the power of letting things go. Like, setting a plan, but being like, "God, whatever you wanna do," it's a lot less stressful.
Erin Cluley: It's so freeing.
Jai Williams: It's very freeing. It's very freeing.
Ginger Stache: Psalm, 34. There's so much good stuff. Read Psalm, 34. It's almost like a recipe for how to work through this stuff in your life. It says, when you're when you're asking, "What'll I do you know, I have all these options, how do I make the right decision"? You get so stressed about it, and it says, "Trust God and do good". Trust God and do what he puts before you that's good. It doesn't say do everything. And it makes such a difference. "Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart". You don't have to fight for everything that you have when you're trusting in God. "Commit your way to the Lord. Trust in him and he will act". It just goes on and on. God's got it. It may not look like we thought it would look like, and that's the thing about releasing our control, but holding on to that faith that God has something good for us, in the midst of all of it.
Jai Williams: If anybody feels bad for feeling stressed right now, like or before you listen to this, just know that you're a part,you're amongst friends and family, and we're all going through the same. And even David, years and years and years and years and years ago, would be, "Woe is me," and then, "Trust in God". So, it's a journey. It's a journey. So, be patient.
Erin Cluley: One thing I know, that Joyce has said is that like, you can't ever, like, get rid of stress all the way. You can't just make it all go away. So, you feel none ever in your whole life. That's not realistic. But like all these things that you're talking about, there are tools we can use to deal with it. And I think that is,that gives you some freedom.
Ginger Stache: It does. And it releases that guilt.
Erin Cluley: It does. "I'm not a bad person because I feel stress. But now, that I notice it, what can I do about it"?
Ginger Stache: So, if your eye's twitching just a little bit today, it's ok, honey, we...
Erin Cluley: You have a friend here, with you.
Ginger Stache: We love you.
Erin Cluley: We relate.
Ginger Stache: And we just wanna give you all the prayer and love and resources that we possibly can. You're not alone. There is answers. There are answers for you in the Word of God, and he loves you so much. He has good for you. We have a free resource for you. It's a booklet from Joyce. It's a free download. It's called "Stress less". Doesn't say, "Don't stress ever again," 'cause we can't avoid that. Says, "Stress less," when you learn some of those tools to use, some of those decisions that you need to make in your life to change it for you. So, go to joycemeyer.org/talkitout. You can get this absolutely free resource. And don't forget to subscribe and share the podcast with your friends. We are praying for just a little bit less stress in your life and that you are overwhelmed with God's peace. He has it for you. It is possible today. Thank you both.
Jai Williams: Thank you.
Ginger Stache: I love you.
Jai Williams: You made me cry.
Ginger Stache: I love you.
Erin Cluley: I love you.
Jai Williams: Is she twitching?
Ginger Stache: We'll see you next time.