Joyce Meyer - Peace, Patience and Humility
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Ginger Stache: Hi everyone. Welcome to Joyce Meyer's Talk it Out podcast, where Joyce teaches the Word of God, in her practical, no-nonsense way. And my friends and I, talk about the real stuff of living it and holding nothing back. I'm Ginger Stache, with Erin Cluley, and Jai, three friends, who understand the importance of having honest, loving women around you. When we needed a little extra help, we ask Ms. Joyce and she is always there. So, consider yourself one of the girls, and come on in here, let's talk it out together. And today, this is going to be, what's the right way to explain it? This is going to be like a dissection for my heart, I think.
Jai Williams: Okay, yeah.
Erin Cluley: Sounds exciting.
Ginger Stache: This is the hard stuff.
Jai Williams: Whenever you hear dissection...
Ginger Stache: But in a good way. It's like, find, looking in there, finding out what's wrong, finding out how to fix it. You know, and then, putting it all back together in a better way.
Erin Cluley: We have a lot to do in just a short amount of time.
Ginger Stache: I know. I know. We better get busy. We're talking about the Fruit of the Spirit today. And it's, especially, the beginning ones. The one's that just happen to be the ones that are, I'm just going to be honest, you won't like me by the end of this, because it's just, these are the hard ones for me, you know.
Erin Cluley: I was hoping we might skip to just the other ones. And then, maybe, brush past the hard ones.
Ginger Stache: Next time, when we do this part two, the next episode, Joyce will be here, and we could just skip to that if you want.
Erin Cluley: Let' do it.
Jai Williams: Let's just skip,bye!
Ginger Stache: No, these are so good. These are some of my favorite things to dig into. So, the Fruit of the Spirit, if you are asking, we have this lovely fruit on our table, with some beautiful flowers sprinkled in, which I think is a great representation of what the Fruit of the Spirit is. It is what God gives us when his spirit is living in us, and we have to learn how to cultivate it. So, let me read this to you. It's from Galatians chapter 5, beginning with verse 22, "But the Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires". Anytime it says, "Crucified the flesh," it's like, "Ah"! Yeah. "If we live by the spirit, let us also keep in step with the spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another or envying one another". Yep, that's it. There we go.
Jai Williams: Yep, drops the phone.
Ginger Stache: It's stuff to dig into and talk about and I hope you all are right here with us because it's, I think, the best gift, maybe, that God has given us, is his Holy Spirit, to fix all these natural tendencies in us, the flesh that we fight against. We're not doing it by our self.
Erin Cluley: Whenever we talk about the Fruit of the Spirit, I always go back to, I think, I was like five, and you learn the Fruit of the Spirit song. "Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace you get it". I won't sing them all to you.
Ginger Stache: Oh, sing the whole thing.
Erin Cluley: Patience, kindness, goodness
Ginger Stache: Oh, I like the little...
Jai Williams: I had a different version, but it's still good though.
Erin Cluley: So, that's really fun and happy, and it sounds like, you know, so great. And when your little that's important to learn it that way. But as an adult and as we're studying this, it is hard.
Jai Williams: The version of the song that I learned, of course, was like, King James. And so, "The Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, looooong-suffering".
Ginger Stache: That's the patience one.
Jai Williams: "Meekness and teeemperance and against such there is no law"
Erin Cluley: Yours is more accurate to real life.
Jai Williams: I was like, "Long-suffering, I don't want any of that".
Jai Williams: Looong-suffering.
Ginger Stache: Looong.
Jai Williams: I don't think I like this one.
Erin Cluley: No, I like my song better.
Jai Williams: I like yours better, yeah.
Ginger Stache: Well, what do you say? We jump right in and see what Joyce has to say about how important this fruit is in our life. And please, Lord, help us get it.
Joyce Meyer: The Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, which is humility, and self-control. Something that I began to realize a long time ago is that all of the fruit come out of love. You see, love really is the Fruit of the Spirit. And you're not really gonna have any of these if you don't have this. Now, yes, there might be some that would be a little more naturally patient person. My husband is a more naturally patient person than I am. But the real fruit of the Holy Spirit, we're not just talking about personality traits, but the real fruit of the Holy Spirit has to come because the love of God has been put in us and because the Holy Spirit lives in us and where he is, his fruit is. But then they're also all held in place by self-control. So I kind of look at self-control and love as two bookends and it's like they all come out of love, but if I don't have self-control, I'm not gonna be humble. If I don't have self-control, I'm not gonna be faithful. I'm gonna give up on things when it gets hard. If I don't have self-control, I'm not gonna be good to anybody or kind to anybody or patient. I'm not gonna be peaceful because when something upsets me, I'm just gonna have a fit and lose my temper and just lose my peace. I'm not gonna have joy if I don't have self-control because as soon as something happens that I don't like, then I'm gonna be all upset.
Ginger Stache: I love Joyce because she'll admit it. She gets right down there to how hard it is. And when she said that about Dave being naturally patient, like, love you Dave, but boo.
Jai Williams: Yeah, and we've experienced it, like, he is.
Ginger Stache: Oh, he is. He's so great.
Jai Williams: He truly is. He's super patient.
Ginger Stache: He is, but I'm not.
Jai Williams: I love how Joyce said that everything starts with love, you know. And that's been really helping me a lot recently, is just understanding that if it starts with love, and the understanding that God is love, so, it starts with him, you know. Like everything is propelled by him, and through him, and for him. And as long as I have him, then everything else will fall into place. And then, I like how she said the book ends of, you know, love and self-control. 'Cuz if you don't have the self-control then you won't make the choice to choose any of these things. And it's easier, the flesh is weak. And it wants to choose the opposite of what these fruit are. Like, I look at them, like, "All these fruit are just so sweet," you know, like, and, "I'm so sour, so many times I don't choose fruit. I choose sour things, or candy bars".
Ginger Stache: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, those different things that you talk about trying to figure out what, when you have those moments where you just feel the wrong words flying out of your mouth, it's like "Ahh"! And, yeah, you're trying to pull them back. And you feel the impatience and all those things that are swirling around in your chest, you know. And so, what I love about this, what this does is it empowers us. Because it's not the fruit of a Christian, it's the Fruit of the Spirit. It's the Holy Spirit that gives us what we need to cultivate this fruit in our life. It's not, "We can do it all on our own". It's, "We can do it because we have God's spirit in us".
Erin Cluley: I love that because it feels really overwhelming to me, just to be honest. When you list all of those, I cannot obtain that. I can barely obtain two of them, let alone, the long list of all of them. So, i,it's overwhelming, to me, to think of how am I supposed to be that as a good Christian. But I love what you're saying, 'cuz it is the Holy Spirit, and if I can set my mind on him, like one thing, I can focus on, "What is the Holy Spirit leading me to do"? I don't have to accomplish all Fruit of the Spirit at one time, if I can just listen to how he's leading me. He is guiding you: he is taking me through it. It's not me having to check 'em all off the list.
Jai Williams: Yeah, and I love the fact that you're saying that it's not the fruit of Christians but the Fruit of the Spirit. Because I'm learning God in such a new and real way these,this past like, year and a half or so. It's so unlike anything I've ever experienced before, you know. And it feels more authentic, more real than it ever has before. But it's so very uncomfortable. Because I used to choose, because I was the self-righteous Martha that wanted to choose all of the right things: pick the right fruit: love, joy, peace, be perfect as possible, you know. But here, lately, I'm flawed because I'm, like, I've been so hurt and I'm healing. And in the process of healing, you just hit bumps along the road. And I just have experienced so many Christians in a not-so-great way. If I'm just honest. Like, because people don't understand, because I'm not exactly as "Perfect" as I've always tried to be in the past. And I've been,I've shown my scars publicly on, you know, on talk it out, and just in my life in general, if you follow me, anywhere. Like, I'm just flawed and I'm accepting that because that's me not trying to be perfect, but allowing God to be perfect in me. But just the way that Christians have been assuming things a lot, because of the flaws that I'm sharing, I get so many scriptures, or like, almost insinuations and implications of like, me being a sinner. Like, it's just so crazy.
Ginger Stache: Oh, really?
Jai Williams: Yes, it's really...
Ginger Stache: Like, "Here, let me help you with this"?
Jai Williams: Yeah, like, not asking, "How are you, Jai"? It's just very, almost judgmental. And what,i was even having a conversation with my mom, and I'm like, "Mom", like, we were talking about like, you know, Fruit of the Spirit, and everything. But it's like, if this is how I ever was to my unsaved family members or friends, and I thought I was choosing all the right, I thought that was love. I thought, like, "I want you to know Jesus. I want you to...Da da da". Without really like, getting to know the person or asking them questions or just being their friend, like honestly, like Jesus did, you know. Like, I was like, I don't want to be that ever again. I don't ever want to be a Christian that is judgmental. But honestly...
Ginger Stache: "I don't see your joy". You know, "I don't see your patience". Well, I need to work on my own instead of watching for the flaws in somebody else's.
Jai Williams: But it's very, but how I felt in this, because it is unusual for me. It's,this is been the most unique season of my life, which I feel like is about to catapult me to something very, very great. I feel it. But it's very uncomfortable still. And I'm still choosing the fruit, but it's just...
Ginger Stache: Catapults are uncomfortable. They're all tiny and squishy. They squeeze really hard, and then they just let go. Zoom!
Jai Williams: And the let go, is very uncomfortable. And you know, and so, it's just been an interesting season where I've seen a lot of Christians believe, and I really believe the intentions are good. But I believe that Christians are trying to be showing the Fruit of the Spirit, but the way that we've been going about it that,not we've. That they've been going about it, with me, has felt very judgmental. It's very,and I was like, "God, I don't", I don't want to ever return to that if that was ever me. Because I could see some of the things that I used to do. From like, "This is love," "This is me choosing joy". "This is me also, offering ways of them,of this person to be more..." You know, I don't know.
Erin Cluley: "Let me tell you how to have the Fruit of the Spirit".
Jai Williams: Yeah! It's just very, like, I don't know. It's just interesting.
Ginger Stache: I think it's so great that God chose, in the Bible, to talk about these characteristics of a godly person in terms of fruit that has to be nurtured, and cultivated, and cared for. I mean, fruit is really delicate. You know, you throw it down, it's gonna get bruised and nasty. And so, with the Fruit of the Spirit, we have to learn how to be tender with our heart, and how to open ourselves to the Holy Spirit, and cultivate, grow, nurture all of these things in our life. So, I think it's a great way to look at it. It doesn't just happen because we throw that seed in the ground of, "I'm a Christian, bring it on God".
Jai Williams: Yeah, like they just naturally pop up.
Ginger Stache: Right.
Jai Williams: It's like, there are seasons of, even like, you think of like, even an avocado, which is technically a fruit still, you know.
Erin Cluley: That's a very, there's seeds in there. That's a fruit.
Ginger Stache: We're with ya, yeah.
Jai Williams: I'm just saying like, but you ca, I mean, I could have chosen a banana, but I just chose avocado because I feel more like an avocado these days, you know. Like, high in fat.
Ginger Stache: No!
Jai Williams: Well, good fat, you know.
Erin Cluley: Protein.
Jai Williams: But like, you can't eat an avocado until it's ripe, until it's ready. Because if it's too hard and not pliable yet, then it's not good. It's not,it's bitter. And so, I'm just like, there are processes to this. Like, you know, like, there are also, like, when you talk about cultivating. There are just seasons of growth that you have to go through so you can be ripe for whatever the next season is for you, you know.
Ginger Stache: Well, let's get into the hard stuff, because Joyce says, there is one fruit that is the most difficult to develop.
Erin Cluley: Mm-hmm... We all know what she's talking about.
Ginger Stache: I know, I don't wanna go there, but let's do it. Let's listen. See what she says.
Joyce Meyer: So, while God is working on one of these things, there's others that are connected to it. We're not going to have any peace if we don't have self-control. We're not going to have any patience if we don't have self-control. And patience, as we know, is probably one of the most challenging things, especially for certain personality types like mine. Because I'm a quick person. Make quick decisions, want people to move quick, quick, quick. Quick. I want God to be quick. Well, God's not late, but he's rarely ever early. And he's certainly not in a hurry about much of anything. James 1, "Consider it wholly joyful," like hilariously joyful, "Whenever you're enveloped in or encounter trials of any sort or fall into various temptations". That doesn't necessarily mean consider it joyful because it feels good but consider it joyful because of what you're going to get out of it if you learn how to go through it properly. When you're in hard times and you remain stable, you grow. You grow. And growing hurts. But once you've grown, then you have new levels of all of this. Then you have something the devil can not take away from you. That's why we have to stop praying for every uncomfortable thing in our life to go away, and we have to say, "God, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. I believe that all things work out for good and if this is in my life then I want you to use it and let me get something out of it. Make me a better person because of what I've got going on". I challenge you to try to find one place in the Bible where the apostle Paul prayed for any Christian for their problems to go away. You can't find it. It's not there. What he prayed for was for them to endure whatever came with good temper. God doesn't deliver us quickly, he does it little by little. Little by little. There's two ways that God works. Slowly. And suddenly. And first he works slowly and then when you think he's never going to do anything then suddenly you have a breakthrough.
Ginger Stache: It is so true. I love that, slowly and suddenly. And for a person, who is not naturally patient, such as myself...
Erin Cluley: For example.
Ginger Stache: For example, let's say me, it's hard. The slowly part is hard. And I love what Joyce said, you know, just being a quick person, you know, patience is not one of my favorite things to try to work on. Let's talk about joy, you know, I'm all over joy. But no, God's saying, "No, work on this". And for patience, what I find is that it's so much more about other people than it is about me. I feel like things need to move more quickly. I don't realize how that is impacting everybody else around me. When you're impatient, you're just thinking about yourself and what's happening, and it spills over. There's no way to be impatient without it spilling over into everybody around you. And I don't want that.
Erin Cluley: Patience is also one where, I think, it feels like it's one of the ones we have to like, tackle a lot. We're never going to get that one all the way. And to me, it's one of the ones that, if you can go to God, and you can like, learn what he's trying to teach you, it's one, of the ones that brings you the closest to him. Because you have to surrender everything that you want, because you cannot make it go faster. I cannot get my answer faster. I cannot make this thing happen any faster than when he's going to let it happen, or not happen.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, that's really true.
Erin Cluley: You're constantly having to surrender to him and that is exhAusting. But, to me, it's one of the ones that brings you closest to him.
Ginger Stache: I love that you said that 'cause I've really never thought about it that way. That surrender,i think I'm pretty good at, you know, surrendering my life, surrendering anything he wants me to do, surrendering in so many inconvenient ways, I'm all about that. But when it comes down to surrendering this moment that I'm feeling annoyed and impatient, I haven't thought about it that way. So, surrendering to God, is not just the big, overall, arching umbrella of life. It's the little, impatient, moments one, after the next.
Erin Cluley: The bigger ones seem easier to surrender and to have patience for. It's the little ones that are rough.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, they bite.
Jai Williams: It's all of them for me. Little, big, middle, all of 'em. Because patience requires trust. It requires trust, and it requires faith. Like, it requires a strong amount of faith that I trust that God is going to bring me out of this, or I trust that God is going to get the glory, no matter what. Like, I think of the three Hebrew boys and how they were basically saying like, "Even if God doesn't deliver us out of the fire, I know that he can". That's a certain level of trust and faith that's like...
Ginger Stache: It's a big level.
Jai Williams: You know, it's like, "If I don't make it out of this, or if it doesn't get better, I know that God still can". That's a certain level of trust that you have to have in God, to have, and so, like, that's what I'm learning, even more and more like that patience. It's the King James long-suffering. Like, it's being able to suffer long and know that God is with me through the suffering. This new season is requiring me to just kind of sit still, and it's slowing me down. Because I really don't, there's no quick remedy to this. Now, with patience having her perfect work in me, I really don't want to repeat this season. I don't want to repeat any of this. I'm actually slowing down. This is the first time, like, I feel sooooo sloooow. Like, I feel very slow. Like, and sometimes, it feels like life's passing me by, but I'm like, I'd rather move slowly in life, right now, while I'm healing and while I'm allowing the patience to do what patience is going to do, and make the right steps than to make a hasty step, that'll be a somewhat of a quick fix. So, I'm actually trying to exercise more patience now, than I've ever done before. It's extremely uncomfortable though.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, it's hard.
Jai Williams: And it feels like, I'm like slow with everything. You know, it doesn't feel, but I guess that's patience, right?
Ginger Stache: There are two things that I've learned to do, that have really helped me, and I need so much help. Two things that I've learned to say in those times. One is, "It doesn't matter". I've had to learn to say that because I think things are so important, and they need to move, and it needs to be like, I think it needs to be. And I've learned to say, "It doesn't matter". And it comes to that faith that you're talking about. Because what I think is so important, is not as important, does not matter compared to what God has in mind. So, it's trusting him that he has a far better plan, anyway. So, if I can say, "It doesn't matter," then it does kind of change my outlook. And the second part is, "It's not about me anyway". If I can say that in my most impatient moment, and boy, it is not always easy. But if I can remember those phrases, "It's not about me, anyway," you know, it may be about what somebody else needs, it may be about what God's doing. It's probably about what God's trying to teach me through this, but this moment is not about me and what I want. And so those have helped.
Erin Cluley: That's really helpful. I was just thinking about this last night, feeling, like you said, impatient with the people. People are, cause me to be annoyed.
Ginger Stache: People. People are problems, yes.
Erin Cluley: They really are a problem. This would be so much easier if people weren't involved. But I love what you said, those things are really helpful 'cuz when people are your problem, to step back and realize, it's not about you. And I had to find myself to flip it, even yesterday, and pray for that person. Because I don't want to start to resent somebody for something, they don't even know that they're making me annoyed for, or whatever it is. But it's not about me, so maybe, I should pray for them. And maybe, God can use my prayers, or he'll at least change me, and help me to flip my perspective on them.
Ginger Stache: Oh, okay. Well...
Erin Cluley: Is it time for another one?
Ginger Stache: You know what? And this one's no easier either. In fact, this one, maybe for me, is even harder. So, let's just keep going. Up next...
Ginger Stache: Gentleness. Joyce is going to talk about gentleness and especially connecting it to humility. So, I love talking about this, because I've learned that humility was not what I thought it was. So, take a listen.
Joyce Meyer: Humility is really what sets you free. A humble person is really a happy person because they're not trying to impress anybody. They don't live under pressure. They're not hypocritical. They're not pretending. They're not in competition with everybody else. They're free to be wholly and completely who they are with no pressure of feeling that they need to be something else because they're satisfied with what God has made. They simply want to be the best version of them that they can be. You see a truly humble person, it wouldn't matter to them if they were the greatest singer in the earth or the person who cleaned the toilets at the church... Because they have understanding that their worth and value's not in what they do. It's in being obedient to what God is asking them to do. And sometimes if God is asking us to do something that, perhaps, by the world is not, is maybe seen as more of a lowly job, then it does require humility and meekness to be willing to do that job and do it with joy. But every job has to be covered. God's got everything covered. He anoints all of us in different ways. And God doesn't see things like the world sees them. He doesn't look at one position as high and exalted and another one as lowly. God's got an overall plan that involves all of us and we all fit in somewhere. And we need to be happy to fit in in the place where God wants us. People ask frequently about Dave and how he handles me having this position and him sitting in all these meetings, not being the one that's up in the front of the people all the time. And although Dave has a tremendous part in the ministry, it is more behind the scenes rather than the one that is actually the voice of the ministry. And I'm not gonna say that Dave didn't have any issues with it, but he got them settled in about 3 weeks. Because here's what God put on his heart. "I've put a gift in your wife and I want you to support that gift. And if you will do what I'm giving you the grace to do, then you'll always have joy. But if you try to go beyond that and do something that I'm not giving you to do, then you're not gonna have joy". And I can't tell you how many unhappy people there are in the world because they're simply not satisfied being who they are. "Well, I'm just a stay-at-home mom". There's no such thing as just a stay-at-home mom. Being a mother is a high calling. Being a good mom is a high calling. You don't know, you might be raising the next greatest evangelist that the world will ever see. And then again, maybe you're raising somebody that's gonna be a quiet lover of people. "Well, I'm just this. I'm just that". And you know as people, we have a tendency to be really impressed by what people do. But God is not impressed with what we do. He's impressed with our motives and our heart attitude about why we do it. And if our motives aren't right, then nothing is acceptable to God. "Come to me, all you who labor and are heavy-laden and overburdened, and I will cause you to rest". Rest. "I will cause you to rest". How many of you need that rest in your soul? He's not talking about taking a nap. He's talking about rest. Internal rest. "[I will ease and relieve and refresh your souls.]" Your soul is your mind, your will, your emotions and that's where we need rest in our mind, in our will, in our emotions. Verse 29, "Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am humble, gentle, for I am gentle, (meek) and humble (lowly) in heart, and you will find rest (relief and ease and refreshment and recreation)". See what all humility gives you? Let's back it back up again. "You will find rest (relief, ease, refreshment, recreation and blessed quiet) for your souls". I'mma tell you. It's gonna be worth it to learn about humility. And then in verse 30 he says, "For my yoke is wholesome (useful, good. I am not harsh, hard, sharp, or pressing". I tell you, Jesus is just plain comfortable to hang around. "But I'm comfortable, gracious and pleasant, and my burden is light". The most amazing quality that Jesus walked in in his life as an example to us is this beautiful quality of humility, gentleness and meekness. We have a totally wrong view of humility and meekness. Meekness is a word that we just don't understand. We think meekness is weakness. It's wimpiness. It's letting people walk all over you. But actually, the definition of the word "Meek" means strength under control. Jesus did not have to go to the cross. He said, "Don't you know that I could call for a legion of angels, and they would deliver me"? But he humbled himself under the mighty hand of God because he knew that was what God wanted him to do and what was gonna be best for everybody else.
Ginger Stache: I love that thought that Jesus is just comfortable to be with.
Jai Williams: I love that.
Ginger Stache: That's beautiful.
Erin Cluley: It is.
Ginger Stache: I want to be comfortable for people to be with. What a wonderful thing to say about someone.
Jai Williams: Yeah, that just reminds me of how I started this conversation. Like, a lot of people that I've been friends with for a long time, that are believers, that have great intentions have made it somewhat uncomfortable for me, while I'm figuring this new season out, like, it's uncomfortable for me to be around 'em, you know. And this is, in this humbling season that God's putting me in, like, he's allowing me to go through right now, it softened me in so many different ways, where, so many unbelievers, because I've softened up, because I'm feeling more than I've ever felt before, and I'm experiencing life in a different way. And allowing the process to actually be what it's going to be. You know, that whole patience piece, as much as I can, allowing myself to become as pliable and like, the avocado, soft and ripe as possible. I just have had so many people that don't know God, and don't know Jesus, come to me so much more now, than ever before. When I was kind of abrasive, and like, "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus"! You know. When I've had to like, just in my time, I'm like, "Jesus didn't do that". Like, Jesus knew that he was King of kings and Lord of lords. He knew who he was. He left his throne and came to earth for a specific reason, a specific task. But he was just so loving, and so comfortable, to be around that tax collectors, prostitutes, anyone, like, who didn't live the same kind of life, he lived, loved being around him. And I'm like, wow, this season of me really going through so much pain, but allowing that pain to like, push me into purpose, to be just more humble. And like I said, I never thought humility felt like, was this, but it's just more relatable, and more human to people. Which has been beautiful. That's one of the most beautiful things out of this season, out of this time that I've been able to experience. It's just like, you know, being able to connect with people, and them being able to actually see the fruit inside. Like, the Bible talks about, "You'll know them by the fruit that they bear". And it's not because I'm pushing it on 'em. It's because when they're comfortable around me, they feel love, they feel joy.
Ginger Stache: You don't have to tell them, you're full of the Fruit of the Spirit. Pride and humility are one of these things that I've just studied, studied, studied, all of my life, 'cuz I just, I believe it's so important and there's so much that I need to work on constantly. And I've learned that idea of pride, it's not always a conceit, like, "I'm better than everybody else". That's what we think of, and that's what we see as obvious pride. But in my life, at least, and I think in a lot of our lives, there's all this hidden pride, these little agendas that we don't realize. And it's not because we think we're better than somebody else. But it's because we want to be seen or we want to be known. "I want you to know what I know," or, "I want you to know that this was my idea," or, "I already knew that, you didn't have to tell me". All those little things, they're all about pride. And pride is such a foundation for other problems that build up. We were talking about love being the foundation of the Fruit of the Spirit and that self-control being the bookend. Pride is the foundation that we start building all of the other, just stones of corruption in our life on. And so, when we make ourselves more important, when we get puffed up, I always think of like, a spiky pufferfish. You know how they're tiny, and then, they go, poof, and they're real big and spikey and no one can get close to them. There's no room for anybody else in, around them. There's no room for anything else in their life, because they're all puffed up, with self. And so, we just need to deflate that ugly, pufferfish.
Erin Cluley: I've learned that a lot from you,as a leader, you've been my leader, for a long time. You do a really good job of not taking the credit, and you're always really quick to give your team the credit for whatever idea, it was that was come up with, or whatever project we've been working on. You do such a good job of deflecting. So, it's not about you. It's about the team, as a whole. And I've watched you do it, time and time again, and I want to be like that because it makes the team feel valued, and it makes people respond, and want to do more, and even, work even harder, because they feel seen too. Where you could take all the credit, because you're really smart. And you have really brilliant ideas.
Jai Williams: You're kind of a smart lady.
Erin Cluley: But, it's so fun to watch how, because you do that, it empowers a whole group of people to want to work even harder.
Jai Williams: And do the same.
Erin Cluley: Exactly, yeah. So, now, I want to do that because I saw you do it, and I saw how people responded, it makes me want to do it.
Jai Williams: Humility is contagious. But so is pride.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, you're right.
Jai Williams: Because pride is addicting, right. Like, and then, you see it...
Ginger Stache: It is!
Jai Williams: You see it in the church.
Ginger Stache: "I want a little bit more of that accolade," yeah.
Jai Williams: And because I'm a pastor's kid, right, like I'm a pastor's kid and I grew up in the church and I've looked up to all these different people, that held these positions. And that's also, in the professional world as well. And you want to, you know, you get praised for, you know, excelling in life. You get praise for that, you know. And that's why I'm trying to also balance it, with my daughter, wanted to take like, a gap year to focus on God. It's like, I want to praise her for that too, because we live in a culture that only praises when you go straight to college, or when you go straight to do this, you know, and so.
Erin Cluley: When you achieved.
Jai Williams: Yeah, when you achieve. And I mean, and that's not a bad thing, but it's also, it's really not what Jesus did. Jesus didn't go for titles. He didn't go for, and I'm not saying everybody just go be lazy, but that's not what I'm saying, but I'm saying like, we have to check that. And that's one reason,when I knew that God was about to, I was about to go through this really tough, tough time. I literally, like, I was the,my official title was "The global worship pastor," which meant that,
Ginger Stache: That sounds big.
Jai Williams: It was official. You know, it was official. It was official, okay, it wasn't just a worship pastor, it wasn't just a worship leader, honey, I was the global, yeah. But I was, I mean, but with that did come a lot of responsibility 'cuz we have like, six,no, seven campuses that I oversaw, all things worship, all things, I actually, pastured the team of over 200 people, you know, so, like that was a huge responsibility. But I knew that this bowl of fruit was about to be smushed, you know, and I was going to need time to nurture my own fruit. That I was just, this is the first time I've ever been like, "I'm just going to let go of the title," like, I can't allow pride to rule me right now.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, you're so right.
Jai Williams: I mean, I need to actually,i need to work on me, and I need to heal properly so that when I come out of this, I'm better than what I am right now. And so, I quit almost everything, y'all. I was,I'm like, it's just, I've been at the lowest of lows during this time, intentionally, you know, because I'm like, "God, I need you to strip me of everything so that when I come out of this, I'll be better," so.
Ginger Stache: Otherwise, we have to do it again.
Jai Williams: Yeah, I just, I don't wanna repeat it. No, I don't want to repeat anything,even if it's not exact same scenario, I don't want to repeat this pain, you know, I wanna grow from this, and I want it to prune me to be better. I want more love. I want more joy. I want more peace, you know. And I do want more patience, like, I do wanna slow down.
Ginger Stache: Friends, listen to this. This is really important from all of us, who've had big fancy titles, they mean nothing.
Jai Williams: Nothing.
Ginger Stache: They don't mean anything. What really does mean something is what you sow into other people's lives.
Erin Cluley: I remember, this actually happened a few times, when I've dealt with some anxiety, and I've been crying and overwhelmed, and I, God has shown me, "See, you are no better than anybody". And just as I can sit here with you all and get,i have an amazing job, and I'm so honored to get to do what I do, but I'm also crying on the bathroom floor, because I'm a mess.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, and aren't we all?
Erin Cluley: Yeah, and God show me that. He said, "You have got to keep your eyes on me," and almost like he, not that he's giving me anxiety. But in those seasons, where I've dealt with some of that, he'll use those things to keep me humble before him, to remind me, "I am your everything. It doesn't matter what your job is, or how great of a mom you are, or how many Pinterest projects you make for your kids' bedrooms, none of that matters if you're, if I'm not your anchor," so.
Ginger Stache: There's a couple of verses in James. James: I just love James. But anyway, James chapter 4, verse 6 says, "But he gives us more grace. That is why scripture says, 'God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble'". Well, I want God's favor, you know. I don't want to be opposed. Then it goes on, in verse 10, to say: "Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will lift you up". When God lifts us up, it's not even something that we feel because it's different than the world lifting us up. And when, if we don't humble ourselves, God will humble us. So, he's either going to lift us up in his way, or he's gonna humble us if we need knocked down. And you know, I've been in both places, and I don't want to be knocked down by God again. So, you know, keeping everything I have to, to keep studying on the fruit of gentleness and humility, just really, really important. Well, we're going to touch on one more Fruit of the Spirit. And then, like I said, next time, our next episode, we'll be talking about more with Joyce. So, that'll be awesome. That'll be so good. But peace is so important. It's what everybody wants. And it's there for us as the Fruit of the Spirit. So, let's see what Joyce has to say about the fruit of peace.
Joyce Meyer: "My peace I leave with you: my [own] peace I now give and bequeath unto you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid". Now, Jesus is saying, "I've given you peace, now here's your part". "[stop allowing yourselves to be agitated and disturbed: and do not permit yourself to be fearful and intimidated and cowardly and unsettled.]" "Well, Joyce, I just can't help it. I just get upset before I realize that's going on, and I just can't help it. I just act bad and then I feel guilty and I wish I didn't, but I just can't help it". Well, nothing is ever gonna change in our lives until we stop saying, "I can't help it". Here's why. God is never gonna tell us to do anything unless he makes us able to do it. God would not say, "Walk in love" if we weren't capable of walking in love. He wouldn't say, "Walk in peace" if we weren't capable of walking in peace. So before we can have any victory, we have to start out by saying, "Whatever God tells me to do, through his help, I can do it. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me, including be peaceful in any kind of a circumstance," amen? I got so tired of being upset and not having any peace, and watching Dave enjoy his life while mine was in turmoil all the time. I would worry about a problem for a month. He wouldn't worry about it at all. We'd finally get a breakthrough. Well, he enjoyed his month and I had a month of misery, amen? And finally I decided. Everybody say, "I decided". Finally I decided that I was gonna work with the Holy Spirit and I was gonna learn how to walk in peace if it was the last thing that I ever did. And I started by praying and studying peace in the Bible, and then after that I began to ask God to show me and teach me how the devil stole my peace. Sometimes you gotta kind of back into your victory. You gotta get back over here and see what the root of your problem is.
Ginger Stache: Peace is one of those things that we all chase after. And it's kind of funny. It really makes no sense chasing after peace. How peaceful is that when you're like, "I gotta get peace, I gotta get peace". It's like, "No, I'm stressing myself out trying to get peace". So, I do love that the Holy Spirit, in our lives, is what provides that peace. And it,like, Joyce was saying, seeing it in Dave. It's when we see it in somebody else, we recognize it, and it kinda changes the way we go after it.
Erin Cluley: In the beginning, when we were talking about how they all kind of connect together, I think, peace goes so well with what we just talked about with humility. Because you can't have peace if you're so busy trying to chase things...
Ginger Stache: You're right, yeah.
Erin Cluley: To achieve things because it feels good for your ego. That won't get you any peace. Peace comes from doing whatever God is calling you to do, or going where he calls you to do, and not chasing things that you think you need.
Jai Williams: Yeah, and the funny thing is, and I know, I talk about my situation a lot, because honestly, you all, it's where I am, okay? And so, chasing after peace. It,initially, when I first found out about everything, I really just wanted answers and I wanted resolve because that's the kind of person I am, like, I don't like unresolved music. You know, I'm like, finish it. You know, so, I don't like things just hanging around. I like to finish things. And so, I was seeking after answers. I was seeking, and I'm a justice person, so I was seeking after justice, and like, "What's happening? What are we going to do? Da da da..." And then, finally, after so long, one of my friends that had gone through something very, very similar, she said, "Jai, if you want peace, you're gonna have to get an, 'I don't care,' spirit". Like, as far as like, with all of the things that are going on, you have to say, "I trust you, God, I don't care". Like that part of, and I'm like, "But, I do. I care. I do," you know.
Erin Cluley: "A lot".
Jai Williams: And she's like, "Do you want peace"? I do. And I honestly, want that more than I want more answers, because the more answers I was getting, the more pain it caused me. And I was up at night. I was scrolling. I was...
Ginger Stache: It's so true. Those things we think we need, those answers, whatever, we get more of that in our life and our life just gets more crowded and more hurt. It's so true.
Jai Williams: It was difficult. My heart would start palpitating. Like, the more, I would find things out, the more I'd see pictures, or see things, and I'm like... It didn't help.
Ginger Stache: Sometimes the things that we don't know lead us to peace. When we think, "If I had answers, I'd have closure". Peace is better than closure. God's peace is a different type of closure that means so much.
Jai Williams: Yeah, it's different. It doesn't mean that you like, evade real issues. Like, if you feel a sickness, and you're just like, "I'd rather have peace than go to the doctor".
Ginger Stache: No, no, no.
Jai Williams: No, get answers. Like, get the answers you need, but then, give it to God. That part is so pivotal, is once you find out what's going on, do what you got to do, but like, trust that God's gonna handle the rest, and just like...
Erin Cluley: Right, but you can have peace in the middle of, while you're finding out the answers.
Jai Williams: In the storm.
Erin Cluley: Or while you're going through a difficult time and you're whatever.
Jai Williams: Exactly, yeah.
Ginger Stache: Well, I always kind of think about the Fruit of the Spirit like an Italian dressing bottle, where God's spirit is when we accept Jesus into our lives, we have his spirit. And as we grow closer to him, then all those things that he gives us, they're all in that bottle, but they tend to settle down to the bottom, because life gets heavy, and we get hurt, and we get busy with other things. So, what we need to do is shake that bottle up, shake up that love, the joy, the peace, the patience, the kindness, the goodness, the gentleness, the self-control. Shake it up, it's there. It's maybe, dormant, laying at the bottom, some on your toes, and so, we just need to keep on cultivating it. And we're going to do more of this next episode, with Joyce, like we said. That was only three of the fruit, believe it or not.
Erin Cluley: So much fruit.
Ginger Stache: We've got more to talk about. We've got some guacamole to make girls.
Erin Cluley: I'm gonna bring some next time.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, we'll have guacamole and chips on the table next time. So, we hope that you'll be here with us, then. In the meantime, we have an offer for you. It's called, "Understanding gifts versus fruit". This is an audible teaching from Joyce, an audio download that you can get. Go to joycemeyer.org/talkitout and you can get that free download, you can sign up for our friend's list, you can catch up on back episodes. Please subscribe, give us some nice reviews, tell your friends about us. We want to make this talk it out group as large as we possibly can, 'cuz we need each other. And this is really important.