Joyce Meyer - How Can I Trust God When...
Ginger Stache: Hi everyone, welcome to Joyce Meyer's Talk it Out podcast, where Joyce shares the Word of God, in her practical, no-nonsense, tell-it-like-it-is way. And my friends and I talk about the real stuff of living it day in and day out, and we hold nothing back. I'm Ginger Stache, with my friends, Erin Cluley, and Jai, who is on zoom, today. Hi, Jai, far away!
Jai Williams: Hi guys. I miss you guys.
Ginger Stache: We miss you. We are three friends, who are in different places in life, different stages, but we know the importance of having honest, loving women around you. And sometimes, when we need a little bit of extra help, we call up ms. Joyce, and we ask her. Because sometimes, y'all gotta talk about life with your girlfriends. So, consider yourself, one of us, now. Come on in here and let's talk it out.
Jai Williams: Let's talk it out.
Erin Cluley: Hi!
Jai Williams: Erin, I miss not being able to make a little funny face with when Ginger...
Erin Cluley: I panicked for a second and thought, "Who do I look at? What do I do"?
Jai Williams: Look at the pillow, over there.
Erin Cluley: I also appreciate the little air-hug you gave us with your jazz hands, spirit-fingers. Your nails look good.
Jai Williams: Thank you. Thank you.
Ginger Stache: It is so different to have you on zoom. You know, I'm glad that, I'm glad you're here with us. So, we'll take you however we can get you. But...
Jai Williams: Yeah, it's not ideal. But thankfully, we have technology and an amazing crew that can make things like this happen. And I feel like, what our girlfriends probably feel like when they're watching us. So, I get a different vantage point. We did a little bit of this back when we were all quarantining.
Ginger Stache: Right, when we were all that way.
Jai Williams: When we were all, but it's just different doing it like this. But I feel like how our other girlfriends feel possibly when they watch us.
Ginger Stache: Well, I think the thing about today is learning to adjust to all circumstances in life. That's what we're talking about is, how do we trust God when,dot, dot, dot. Whatever comes after that dot, dot, dot,wow. And can we trust God in all circumstances? And when life changes and adjusts, and we have to pivot and go with it, and maybe, we have to completely start over, sometimes. Can we trust God through all of that? Have you guys struggled with that at all?
Erin Cluley: Never in my whole life. Never, absolutely not.
Ginger Stache: I, honestly, ask that because some people don't. I mean, some people, trusting God, it's just kind of a natural thing. And I've not been that person. I am one of those people that always asks a lot of questions and always asked a lot of God, and ask that "Why" question, and gotten upset. And I've never been the type that was like, "I'm good with my faith because my parents had the faith," or, "Because my church tells me to have it". I've always had to dig in and find it for myself.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, I'm married to someone who is that strange person, who's like, "Yeah, that's what God says, then that's what God says". And I'm always like, "But why"?
Ginger Stache: What a great faith to have.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, it's great. But when you're the one on the other side...
Jai Williams: It can be annoying.
Erin Cluley: Yeah, I've said that. "How do you not question these things? How do you not wonder where God is, because he's not answering when he very well, could right now"? Mike has always said, "He knows better than I do". "I know he does, but", it's very frustrating. So, I know exactly how you feel. I have many times asked God, "Why, and when, and how, and what are you thinking"?
Jai Williams: Yeah, like, I would've, on the outside, looking in, before I really knew who you were g, like, Ginger, I would have thought that you were one of those people that naturally, just, until I became your friend and got to see something.
Erin Cluley: Now, we know.
Jai Williams: But here's the thing, this is what I love about, even, talk it out, and being able to share, because the word, and we'll talk about this even more about overcoming by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony. And being honest, and like, this platform really is about being, having real, honest girlfriends around, so you can be honest. So we can, not just chat about regular, just random things. But really, honestly, it's us telling our testimony of where we are and where we've been and how God's brought us through. Because, a lot of times, people on the outside, looking in, it wasn't funny, even when, I talked to you guys last,like, last time, about how, you all know how been going through,i went through the whole divorce on this platform, with you guys. But, how my ex actually, announced that he's getting married after only like, two months of officially being divorced. And people, on the outside, just assumed that I was so okay with everything. Now, you guys know differently, because when I first found out, I was just like, it was devastating, not because I wanted to be back with him, just because it just felt so fast and so, it just didn't seem loving. And so, it didn't,i know people on the outside were like, "You look so strong". Like, "You look so", so, it was okay for us to, people were commenting on his stuff. I didn't know. But my friends, other friends saw it. And my daughter even saw, you know, congratulating him on it. I'm like, I'm not asking you all not be his friend, but it was hard for me to see that. And people were like, "Well, we just assumed, because on the outside, looking in, you looked really good". But i,on the inside, I was really struggling with trusting God. Like, "God, where are you"? Like, "This feels backwards". So, yes, I struggle with it. And I'm grateful to have friends like you to talk through that.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, well, I know a lot of people who are listening here with us and our part of this too, are going through so many different types of things. We can't even imagine all of the things that our friends are going through, that are testing your faith, or maybe, that are making you ask some questions that you haven't asked before. So, we're gonna talk about how to get through that, what to expect in life, and how to, I guess, ask God the right questions without going to bad places. You know what,i mean...
Erin Cluley: That's a good way to say that.
Ginger Stache: I don't know how else to say it, other than, you know, sometimes, we were saying, sometimes, "How do I trust God when, you know, life feels kind of crappy right now"? And we've all been there at different times, and we all handle it differently. So, I think that it's important to talk about. So, let's jump right in with Joyce teaching, and get kind of a beginning for this, and then, we'll talk more about it.
Joyce Meyer: Well, let me just start out with a question. Irregardless of what has happened to you up until this day, what are you planning to do with the rest of your life? What are you gonna do with the rest of your life? Are you gonna keep mourning over everything that didn't work out good back here, or are you going to move on from that, realize that all of that is now something you can't do anything about, you can't change. Are you gonna make a decision today, and possibly every day we have to make this decision, to let go of all those things, and press on to the things that are ahead. You know, I think that some people, and maybe more than we realize, although they function in society, they have jobs, they go to church, they smile at people, they say they're okay, they're existing, not even living, but they're existing with, like, a low-level grief in their life over disappointments that they've had, and things that did not work out the way that they hoped that they would work out. You know, I think sometimes we can get so used to something that we just put up with it, instead of confronting it, dealing with it, getting well, and going on. Our pain from the past can almost become our identity. That's now who we are. We're this broken, painful person that had all these things happen to us. We've had all these disappointments, and it really can become a dangerous type of new, modern disease. We need to realize that Jesus can heal us everywhere we hurt, and every day is a brand-new day. Loss is nothing other than a place to start over. Did you hear me? You may not ever be able to go back and have what you once had, but who's saying that what you're gonna have in the future can't be better, amen? I'm gonna say that again. Maybe you can't go back and undo the wrong you did. Maybe you can't go back and repair the relationship that was ruined. Maybe you can't go back and undo something that happened back here that hurt you. You can't go back and get people to treat you the way that you would have liked to have been treated. You can't go back and get your parents to love you.
Ginger Stache: That's a lot of stuff that you can't go back and undo. That's one of the hardest things about life: the things that we cannot undo, the things that we can't rewind, make different, and then move forward, the way that we wanted it to be. We're just on a different track and things are moving differently. And what Joyce said about, many people just existing in a state of a low-level grief, I think, is really eye-opening and...
Erin Cluley: I agree.
Ginger Stache: We know that it's so true, and it breaks my heart for people. I've been there. But I know that there are many people there, right now, who are saying, "How do I get out of this? What do I do? And can I trust God, even when these types of things are happening"?
Erin Cluley: I was thinking, when she said that, that is why so many of us, including myself, have gone to counseling, because we've had these wounds and things have happened to us, and we kind of just push them down, and try to keep moving forward. And you do kind of walk around with that grief. You almost, don't even realize it, sometimes. I think, sometimes, we don't even know how, "How I hurt," or a,something that has happened to us in the past has affected our whole trajectory of our lives. And so, to think about that not being the case, that we could have a different perspective, maybe, on how God can work in those situations. I just,i wonder how that would affect all of us, so much.
Jai Williams: This is something, I'm literally, living like, right now, and I know a lot of people are. You know, living in that space where you have to allow yourself to have grief, or allow yourself to go through the process of grief. and I, myself, don't like being in that position because I feel like I've been talking about this whole relationship situation for so long now. Like, it's been like,i found out about the affair in 2019, then got served with papers in 2020, had my whole life completely shaken and changed in 2020. And then, in 2021, finally have it,the divorce final. And when you constantly keep having certain things like, I know, you know, my mom has had cancer bouts, and you know, like, my family just has gone through a lot of things, I've had a lot of friends, and I know you guys have gone through a lot of things, that it keeps certain things, keep,like, almost ripping the scab off again. And it's like, "How do I heal from this"? Like, you know, it's like, one blow after another. And that's how I feel with my personal situation, right now. It's like, man, right when I felt like I was done with the grief of that part, like another part comes out. "Okay, yeah, it was this... And it was with a friend... And it was this... And now he's gone... And now, it's this... And now..." And it's like, "Man, I don't wanna", and then, I grieved the fact that I'm not over it. And so, it's like, I don't want to live in grief, but I've also, in counseling, I've realized that I've been taught to allow myself to go through those grieving processes. Like, take,let yourself go through the process, but have it in your mind, and have hope. And I know we're gonna talk about that too. But have hope to know that, "I'm not gonna be here forever. I refuse to be here forever. I know there's going to be light at the other side or light at the end of the tunnel for, in this particular situation".
Ginger Stache: Jai, let me ask you about what Joyce said about disappointments shaping our identity. That, that becomes such a huge part of our life, that it's almost like we don't know who we are anymore. And I'm sure that you experienced that because so many things in your life changed.
Jai Williams: Yeah, it's like, honestly, it's even, even we made a pivot on this show. It's like, "Do I change my last name"? Like, these are regular things. We're talking with our girlfriends, right? Like, it's like, "Do I change my name back to my maiden name? Do I have to start over because he made a mistake? Like, do I just go by Jai"? Like, I've gone by Jai for so many years, as my, as an artist. Like, so, it was easy for me to pivot in that. And it's like, on all of my legal documents, "Do I have to get a new passport? Do I have to", like when you think of identity that, of course you think of the core, the heart. But the practical things of identity too, of like, my name! And then a part of me is like, "I don't want nuthin' to do with him"! And especially now, he's about to get married, we're not no three-some, like, get that out of there. I don't want nuthin' to with it. But so it's like, my identity, even on my id, it's like, is now, having to be reshaped, and it's hard to not, when you're, it's like,and I know there are other situations, so I don't wanna just harp on the relationship piece but that's so, I know, I get so many like, emails and dm's about this. But like, relationships are so important and vital, and when you become one with someone, like, that's the whole point is you become one. You become,you guys become the same person. So, my identity was with him, like, it was him. And so, now, at almost 40 having to figure out who I am after that tearing. It's not just a divorce, like, you can't just be like, "Oh, we broke up". No, I merged my entire self, my person, my dreams, my vision, my future with this person, and it's now like... It's been ripped apart, and now, I have to figure out who I am. I'm loving the journey. It's hard, because,and I have to grieve,that's another thing I have to grieve: the future of what I thought we'd be together and what I thought our family would be together, I have to grieve that too. So, it's just allowing God to resurrect whoever I was intentionally, or initially supposed to be, or he has me to be now. Because I do not believe that all divorces are supposed to happen. I believe there's free will. So, I believe that God has another plan. He can say, "Okay". He turns all things around and makes it for our good. So, it's hard though reidentifying myself.
Ginger Stache: And starting over does not always feel good, but there are good things that God can bring out of it. And I think we do all see that in time when we can look back. But, in the meantime, it's pretty painful.
Jai Williams: It's very painful. You think of the people that have been,I've had friends that have been in like, car accidents, or have had certain things happen to them where they had to like, relearn how to walk, you know? Like it's such a painful process to know that you're an adult, or a teenager, and you've had this situation that was not your fault at all, and you've had to like, start over, and learn how to, and go through all this therapy to relearn how to walk. And I mean, it's just so encouraging to see those videos, and the testimonies of people that actually, persevered to the point where they get back to the point where they're running again. You know, and it's like, that's encouraging. But it's so difficult and seems so,i hate this word, but it seems unfair. And so, yeah.
Erin Cluley: It does.
Ginger Stache: I think it's okay to say that. You know, it does seem unfair. And I want to get into what God promises and what he doesn't. I think that's really important as we talk through this. So, we're gonna jump into a place in the Bible: John 11, where what happened seemed so unfair, and dig into that some more. Here's Joyce.
Joyce Meyer: In John chapter 11, there's a wonderful account of Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead. And we can get many great examples out of this, but let's start in verse 5, John 11, verse 5. "Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. [they were his dear friends, and he held them in loving esteem.] therefore because he loved them, when he heard that Lazarus was sick, he still stayed two days longer in the same place," and didn't bother to go and help him. Because he loved him, you would think that he would have ran right over there and fixed the problem. But do you see that? Because he loved him, he waited 2 more days. See, you think when you're having to wait, that means God doesn't love you. According to this, it's a symptom that he does love you because maybe God's got something deeper in mind than your immediate relief. You know what? If I didn't go through that whole cancer thing for any reason other than to stand up and give other people hope,sometimes we go through things and it doesn't even have anything to do with us. It's something that God's using us for for somebody else's encouragement later on in life. And you don't have to figure out what you did wrong or what your sin is or, you know, "Why doesn't God love me"? And all that junk. You just say, "God's got a plan. God's got a purpose. I love him and the devil is not gonna win. This is gonna work out for my good". He loved them. Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus, therefore he waited and didn't go help him right then. Okay, verse 21, Lazarus, of course, is dead now. Martha said to Jesus when he finally did show up, "Master, if you would have been here, my brother would not have died". Well, how often do we think, "Well, God, if you would have been here, this wouldn't have happened"? And what God wants us to know is it doesn't matter that it happened, "I can still give you a resurrection". Why do we think that God is able to help us not to have problems but he's not able to solve our problem even though we've had it for a long time?
Erin Cluley: So good.
Ginger Stache: That's all really ouchy, isn't it?
Erin Cluley: Yes.
Ginger Stache: It's like, "Oh, it's so true. Why do I struggle the way that I do"? And yet, I have definitely been there, where it's like, "God, where were you? Why weren't you where I wanted you to be, doing what I wanted you to be"? I remember a time sitting on a stairwell, looking down at my friend, who had just, that day, taken his own life, waiting for the police and the coroner to come, and being in,just in that state of shock, with what we were experiencing and what we were seeing, and hurting so badly, that all I could say was, "God, where were you? I know you could have stopped this. I know you could have been here in time. I know that you could have given us a warning, given him hope, prevented this whole thing from happening". And I was just so broken and so hurt at that time, that all I could get out, was that question of, "God, why"? And then, you start to think, "Can I trust you now, for the future? Can I continue to trust you for these other things that I thought would go a certain way, and now, I know, they may go a totally different way". And so, I learned so much through that process that I didn't wanna learn, but I'm glad that I did. I wouldn't,not wanna have to go through it again or for anyone else to have to go through it, but I am glad for what God showed me through that. But I want to ask you, guys, what have you learned in those times of waiting or times of disappointment that have helped you in the long run?
Erin Cluley: It's,before I answer that. I think, one thing that you said, that's really interesting, because you can, there's like a slippery slope there, of what you're asking God, and asking him, like, "Where were you and why didn't you step in"? And you can easily start to look at God in a very wrong way that, "You are not for me. You are actually, against me. And all you're doing", like, "We're puppets, and this is just fun to you. Why did you leave me here when I am in so much pain. Is this,you could have done something. Why didn't you step in"? So, when I've had those times in my life, I always have to go back to the fact that God is good. And that, that one word is how I've gotten through most things like this. Because if he is, who he says he is, in the word, and he is good, and I wrote down a bunch of scriptures about, over and over, in the Bible, we are told he is good, that he is gracious, he is mercy, he's loving, kindness, all of that stuff: if that's who he is, then, in the situation, is what happened good? No. Then, that's not him. But he will use it. And I can't see it now, I can't see how he's gonna use it. But all I know, is his word, says, "The Lord is God, merciful and gracious, long-suffering, abounding in goodness and truth". "Give thanks to the Lord for he is good. His love endures forever". "Every good and perfect gift is from God," and over and over: that's the only way I've ever been able to not go to that dark place, you know?
Ginger Stache: Yeah, we can get there so easily. And one of the things I learned through that whole process, was that we have to be so careful with our words, and what we choose to believe. And we have to really shift it to what God's word says. Because, for instance, we throw out things like, "Everything's gonna be okay," you know?
Erin Cluley: Which is super annoying to hear.
Ginger Stache: You can't say that. We don't know that everything's gonna be okay. You know, we threw out words like, "God's got this," and that's true. But what we don't know is what he's going to do through it, and after it, and during it. So, the words that we say are so very important. We can't say things like, "Don't worry. It's all going to work out the way you want it to". We can't say that. We can say, "Don't worry because God is good and he's in control". So, I've learned so much about the promises that we stand on have to be the promises from the Word of God, and not just platitudes that we throw out to make other people feel better. So, what can we trust? We can't trust that things are gonna go perfectly, but we can trust that God will never leave us or forsake us. We can trust that he is good, that he has good for us. That even through the hardest times, he will not turn his back on us, that he will teach us things, that he will continue to walk with us. And so, I don't know, I think through this, "Can I trust God when..."? I've learned, "Yes, I absolutely can". And it's not because the things go the way I want them to. It's because, God is still God, even through those hard things, that are so difficult.
Jai Williams: Yeah, I think about, it just reminds me, of course, like,first of all, sin is in this world. And as long as sin is in this world, Satan is here, and his whole job is to steal, kill, and to destroy. And that's what I've had to remind myself, even through, the different things I've been through, and even, my current situation, now. It's Satan's job to kill, steal, and destroy. So, there's, like, people always ask, like, "Why do bad things happen to good people"? And things like that. And it's like, it's Satan job to do that. And like, Erin said, but God is good. All things good are God. And one of the stories back in Daniel, about the three Hebrew boys that always has encouraged me, when they were faced with being in the fiery furnace, you know? And one of the things that they said was, "Even if God doesn't deliver us from this, and doesn't rescue us from this," you know, "This fiery furnace, I know that he's able to. I know that he can". And so, that's just been my positioning. Although, I don't understand the situation, I want to be able to trust like the song "Way maker" says that, "Even when I don't see it, you're working. Even when I don't feel it, you're working. And even if you don't deliver me out of this", 'cuz initially, I started my process after I found out about the affair, I started the process out by believing God that he was going to restore my marriage. Like, that, because that's the Christian thing to do! Right? You know? Like, "I'm gonna keep on praying that God turns it around". And I was worshiping, and leading people in worship, and praying that my marriage would work. Then, even after I was served with papers, I still,like, praying and asking God, "You can do this. You can do this". Until the judge, said... Then, I said, "Okay it's done". So, like... But it's hard. You know, it's hard to do that. But allow yourself the space to ask the questions but have the place in mind to say, "God, I'm asking these questions because I do want to get to a place where I don't feel this anger and frustration any more, I wanna resolve, and I wanna be able to trust you more".
Ginger Stache: Yeah.
Erin Cluley: I was thinking about what you said about waiting, and what the verses were saying, that we were looking at, and it's so annoying when, like, he could,had he gone two days earlier, "We wouldn't have had to have this conversation". They,he could have just lived. And "Why didn't you just do that"? But I was thinking, like, as a parent, sometimes, I will tell my kids, "No," just to make them wait, just to learn, one: "Don't be a brat," but also, like, "You need to learn this skill now, as you're young so that way as you grow, you'll have patience, and you'll have humility". And that doesn't mean, I'm mean. But if I'm doing something and they want a snack, it's okay to make them wait a minute, because that teaches them some things. Even more so, if I'm asking God for something, he might make me wait, but he's growing something in me. And that helps, it helps a minute, it's still really hard. But just that perspective change.
Ginger Stache: That's true because that takes us back to knowing what we need to stand on, and what we should not stand on. For instance, you can't say, "God won't allow that to happen to you," because things do happen that God does allow. But we can say that, "God is a loving father". And so, you know, there are so many things that we learn through this process: that his love never ends, it never fails. But he is teaching us things along the way. So, let's get back to the story of Lazarus because there's a lot more in here that we have to learn. And this helps me so much because this is a story where things went badly, and God brought good out of it. So, let's get back to Joyce.
Joyce Meyer: Verse 23, "Jesus said to her, 'your brother shall rise again'. And Martha said, 'well, I know that he's gonna rise again in the resurrection on that last day'. And Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life'". verse 32, "Now when Mary came to the place where Jesus was and saw him, she dropped down at his feet, saying to him, 'Lord, if you would have been here,'" so, Mary and Martha both got the same story. "'if you would have been here, my brother would not have died'". Now, I want you to watch these next few verses. "When Jesus saw her sobbing, and the Jews who came with her [also] sobbing, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled". And I can tell you, he wasn't moved and it wasn't their tears that was making him feel that way. It was their unbelief. Watch this, "He was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. [he chafed in spirit and sighed and was disturbed.] and he said, 'where have you laid him'? And they said, 'well, come and see'". And verse 35, "And Jesus wept". He wasn't weeping for Lazarus. He already knew he was gonna raise him from the dead. He wasn't weeping for Mary and Martha because they'd lost their brother because he already knew he was gonna raise him from the dead. Matter of fact, he waited and let him die so he could raise him from the dead. Whoo, I love this. Jesus wept. I wonder how often he weeps over our unbelief? I wonder how often Jesus cries because he just wants us to trust him to just say, "God, I trust you. I don't understand it. It sure hurts. It doesn't seem fair, but I trust you". And if you're up for it, I think it's even a great thing to get to the point in your life where we stop asking God why about everything. Some things just aren't any of our business. There are some things that are just deeper in God that we are,there's no way we're gonna understand it because it's a spiritual thing. Yeah, well, you're not liking that too much but. I mean if we need to know why something happened because it's gonna be a good valuable lesson for us, then God will tell us. But if we don't need to know, he's not gonna tell us, so why drive yourself nuts trying to figure out something that only God knows and he's not telling you?
Ginger Stache: So, I just told ya, you know, how I ask all those questions. And, you know, Joyce, slaps me around every now and then, in a loving way, and that's okay. That's all right, we all need that. But what I have learned through all those times of asking, "Why"? Is that God's big enough for our questions, like we've been saying, and also, that I've grown enough to not expect the answers. So, it's alright, in my time of hurt, and grief, and sorrow to get that out, and to tell God everything, because he knows it, anyway. He knows what's in my heart, he knows what I'm struggling with. But I'm not,anymore, and I used to do this, but I'm no longer demanding, "Do this or I can't trust you".
Jai Williams: Yes, because, I wish I could fast-forward the grieving process. Like, I wish I could, you know? But it's natural to have those Mary and Martha moments, where you fall to the feet of Jesus, and be like, "I thought you were our friend". So, I think, I need to just trust God more. And what can I do to stretch my trust and my faith more, in this moment, versus asking questions?
Ginger Stache: And I think there's so much to be said in just that one scripture, "Jesus wept". Because I think, what Joyce said is very true. Is that, it does hurt him when we don't trust him, when we don't have the faith in him that we should have. But also, I think there is something about, he saw Mary and Martha, his friends that he loved, in such despair and hurting so bad, and that hurt him, too. Because, when we cry, he's crying right along with us. He never wants to see us heartbroken. So, I just,i think there's so much in that about who Jesus is in our lives, how much he loves us, how much he's walking through every moment with us, with that emotional investment, as well as, being God, who can say, "You know, I can take the absolute worst in your life and turn it around, and do something good out of it".
Erin Cluley: I think that's why studying the character of God is so important to do, especially, before you go through a hard time. So, if you're not in a hard time now, I recommend you study it.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, do it now.
Erin Cluley: Then you'll be ready, you're stored up for when it happens. Because when you get to those places you can go back, you can lean on that foundation, you have of, "He's strong, and he's my protector. He is mighty, he's Almighty. Also, at the same time, he's close to me, and he hasn't left my side". So, you get all aspects of who he is, and it helps you when you don't have the answers. When he's saying nothing back to you, all you have is silence, you get the peace from God that passes all understanding because that's who he is.
Ginger Stache: I've had so much peace, I think, through reading through the Bible, and other things that have happened to people, that I saw as, "Doesn't make sense". Like, Moses, right, is this leader and he's putting up with so much from these whining people that he's responsible for. And, you know, they would come to him and they would say, "Why did you bring us out of here to die in the desert? We're tired of this food". Well, he asked God to provide food for them and God did it in a miraculous way. And yet, his people are saying, "We're sick of this food all the time". And, you know, it's just stuff that you read and you're like, "C'mon, give the man a break"!
Erin Cluley: "Come on"!
Ginger Stache: All of these things that happen to different people in the Bible, and sometimes, they didn't handle it so well, and other times, they handled it better, but God was there through all of it. And so, I think there's so much that I've learned in that. That for me, I like things to be logical. I like them to make sense. And I think that God thinks in my logical way, which is totally wrong. God's ways are so much higher than my logic. His ways are so much better, even though they hurt, at times, than I can ever imagine. So, when I try to put God on my playing field, on my level of figuring things out and what he should do, how disrespectful is that? But I find myself there all the time, and then I pull myself back, and I go back to that trust and that faith and say, "Okay, this is where I am". And one of the scriptures that I love, to be able to do that, to come back around to, "Okay, God, I've been an idiot. Thank you for loving me and forgiving me through it," is Luke 1:38. And this is Mary, and she had just saw an angel, and heard that, even as a virgin, she was gonna have a baby. And just think of all the things going through this poor girl's mind is...
Erin Cluley: I just can't imagine.
Ginger Stache: "Everyone's going to be furious. They're gonna think I'm something, I'm not," all these things. Her words in Luke 1:38 were, "I am the Lord's servant, may it be to me as you have said". That kind of faith, that kind of trust, when it is something that she knows is going to hurt along the way, that's the kind of faith and trust that I wanna have.
Erin Cluley: I remember, I think I told you guys this, I don't remember. But, a few months ago, I'd just found out some stuff and I remember going, I was in the bathroom and I was looking at myself in the mirror crying. I don't know if you'll ever do that. It was very therapeutic, just to look, "Why, me? Oh, I'm so sad! Yeah, poor Erin".
Ginger Stache: You're like, "My mascara's not running, let me rub".
Erin Cluley: "Oh, that looks more, dramatic, there, now she's really suffering". But asking God of, "Why me, God"? And feeling him say to me, "'cuz, I prepared you. Because you're strong enough in me, to do this". And I had that moment, I didn't probably, do as well as Mary did, but, "I don't know what's down the road. I know it's going to be difficult, but I also, know that I've been prepared for this moment. So, my 'why' questions won't make a difference, 'cuz it is, what it is. But he will equip me, I just wanna do it right," so. I didn't, after that, but for that moment, it was an interesting way to look at things.
Jai Williams: Just think, if the people in the Bible hadn't gone through what they went through, we wouldn't have the Bible.
Erin Cluley: So true.
Ginger Stache: Yeah, that's why we have it.
Jai Williams: That's why, you know, like, and then, you think about, like, "Well, okay. What makes me exempt from trials? Like, what makes", like, it's a,clearly, this book has been established for so, so, so, so, so many years, like, there's a bigger picture to the story, like, and that's why even, what I've gone through, what Ginger's gone through, what Erin's gone through, of course, what Joyce has gone through, we're able to talk about it, even on this platform, and help you guys like, and you guys help us, too, so many people have done that for us. But it's like, it's not,my test is not for me, it's for my testimony. And that's what gets my mind, it's like, to stretch me, it's to trust that God has a bigger plan, and know that what I'm going through, in this moment, whether it be sickness, in relationship, it's for a bigger purpose.
Ginger Stache: So, let's find out what keeps us stable. What we hold onto through the storms, where does our hope come from?
Joyce Meyer: When you want a boat to stay a certain place in the water, you drop the anchor, because if you don't, it's gonna float away. But when you drop the anchor, although it can still go a little bit in each direction, it can only go so far. And so then maybe, you know, you try to go over here in this direction a little bit, and oh, it only goes so far. And God has given us hope as the anchor of our soul. What does that mean? That means when I've got the promise of God and I'm believing, and my mind goes crazy because I'm tired and worn out and I've waited a long, long time, and my mind says, "You're not ever gonna get it. This is not for you. Everybody else gets blessed but you don't. You might as well quit and give up", oh, wait a minute. There's that God of hope again, pulling me back to say, "Nope, this is for you". When your emotions go wild and you say, "I just can't do this anymore. I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm just so upset, and i", oh, oh, oh, oh, okay. See, hope, when you have hope, your soul may get out there and drift around a little bit, but it ain't going too far because you've already dropped the anchor of hope in your life. Oh, yeah, you know, we have little emotions. I mean, mine took off in a couple of directions this morning when I first woke up and I was,i even heard a couple of, "What about me"? Kind of faint, but in the background there, "Well, w-what about me? When this is over, well, what about me? What am I gonna", oh, oh, oh, oh, wait a minute. And my mind tried to drift off it a couple of times, and you know, then, oh, oh, oh, oh. And boy, your will, man, "Well, I don't want and I don't think and I don't feel and I don't want and I don't", oh, oh, oh, oh. "Your will be done, Lord, not mine".
Ginger Stache: You know, I'll tell you that, that chain that you hear clattering around, that anchor of hope that she's chained to, when she's talking about being able to be pulled back to the love of the father, that chain is so strong. And I have pulled and yanked against that chain so many times. I'm just ridiculously strong-willed, okay? I'll just say it, I am so ridiculously strong-willed. And I'm so grateful that he's so much stronger than that. That he has, lovingly, shown me this hope in places that I never imagined I could find it, in my life, and he has been that anchor of hope in those storms, in those different times that I have railed against what was going on. And so, I'm so grateful for that, because I really have learned that, that is the one thing that keeps me in place. That is the one thing that reminds me of who he is, and how much he loves me, and what he has for me. And that if I would pull up that anchor and just float, you know, aimlessly, then I would go somewhere I do not want to be. I know that anchor is what I have to hold onto.
Erin Cluley: And you're,you would be no better off out there.
Ginger Stache: Oh no, it'd be terrible.
Erin Cluley: No, you'd be alone.
Ginger Stache: Right.
Erin Cluley: So, even though you're situation's still hard here or out there, at least, here, you have hope, and you're not alone.
Ginger Stache: And it's not the kind of chain that God doesn't give you a choice. God gives us choice. But he says, "If you want me to lower this anchor and I will keep you in place, I will hold on to you through the storms". So, I'm so grateful for that.
Jai Williams: Yeah, it's so powerful to know that his love,like, there's an old song that we used to sing growing up just, his anchor holds me and it grips, like a solid rock. And I've known,I've felt that. I felt it so strongly, in this particular season, where, and he's allowed me to drift a little, where I have my moments of, like, even Joyce with the, "What about me"? Mine wasn't that soft. Mine was like, "What about me?"! Like, I was just screaming. You know, like, "Why"? Like, I don't get it. And he allows me to drip,drift away a little, to the point, where I was just like, "Wait a minute, I don't want to go too much further". Like, because it's, it gets hopeless. And it, like the reality is the more that we allow ourselves to drift without realizing that Jesus is our anchor, and Jesus is going to bring us through, it's hopeless. I mean, I'm just telling you, friends, it's hopeless on the other side. It's not, like the questions just became, like, he's gonna put, Satan's gonna put more questions in your head. He's gonna put more doubt in your head. And it's not,it's not fun.
Ginger Stache: There's nothing good out there.
Jai Williams: It's nothing good out there. It just doesn't feel, it doesn't, now, grant you, we're not based off of our feelings, but it just doesn't, it doesn't feel better. It,like, I know most people, when you're looking for hope, you want a,you want an answer, you want a resolution, you don't want to feel as, what we say, crappy. And like, you don't want to feel bad anymore. And I'm telling you, if you allow yourself to keep drifting in the place where Satan wants you to go, and you uproot that anchor and not allow it to tug you back, it's hopeless. So, it's better to have that moment and let that tug, and allow yourself to have that attitude of gratitude, like, of like, "Okay, I'm still alive. Okay, I'm still loved by so many. Okay, I still have breath. Okay, I still", whatever that thing is that'll help that tug, like, and he'll tug it a little more. And somebody'll send you a random text or send you a random note or, you know. Like, people were sending me random flowers, even though I'm allergic. But like, people were doing all kinds of things, they were like, "I love you, and I'm here for you". But you gotta allow yourself to see it when you're feeling so hopeless and so full of despair. So, that's that tugging.
Ginger Stache: So, that question we started out with today was can I trust God when... Or "God, how can I trust you when, dot, dot, dot". And I think that we've all learned through our own circumstances, all these different, difficult things that we faced and all these things that our friends have faced that, the answer to that is, "Yes, every single time". And it will hurt, but it won't hurt as bad as letting go of that rope and floating aimlessly and hopelessly, because he is where our hope comes from. He is our only source of true hope through every situation. So, yes, we can. And yes, we have to. And he's big enough to handle our questions. He loves us through our little fitz and tantrums, but he provides so much more than we can ever imagine. Not a perfect life, in our way of thinking about things, but his way is so much different than our way. So, we just want you to have hope today. I pray for that for you, whatever those terrible situations, whatever those frightening things are that you're going through, that you're asking, "God, can I trust you here"? I invite you to just say, "Okay, God, show me that I can". Because when you ask him, he promises that he'll answer you. And we want to share some resources with you that will help you. We have an online study for you. It's absolutely free. It's a great way to dig into the Word of God. It's called, "How can I trust God when..." The online study. You can get it at joycemeyer.org/talkitout. There you can also sign up for our friend's list, catch up on some of our old recipes, not coming from me! There are no recipes here. Coming up, some of our old episodes, you'll hear some great stuff.