Joyce Meyer - Imposter Syndrome

Ginger Stache: Hi everyone. Come on in here. We've gotta seat for ya right here. This is Joyce Meyer's Talk It Out podcast, where Joyce teaches the Word of God in her practical, no-nonsense way. And my friends and I talk about the practical stuff of living it out, and we hold nothing back. I'm Ginger Stache, with Jai and Erin Cluley: three friends, who love having honest, loving women around us, and we know how important it is. When we need a little extra help, ta-da!

Joyce Meyer: Ta-da!

Ginger Stache: We ask our friend, ms. Joyce, and she's here with us today.

Joyce Meyer: They make me answer all the questions.

Ladies: Yep.

Ginger Stache: We just toss the questions at ya, and sit back and wait for the wisdom.

Joyce Meyer: I think I might toss a few back today.

Ladies: Oh!

Ginger Stache: Look out!

Jai Williams: Plot twist.

Ginger Stache: Look out. So, she may ask you some questions too, because you guys are one of the girls too, so, come on in, let's Talk It Out. We were just talking hair, which I think some of our friends would enjoy hearing some of the just, you know, useless information that we throw around, while we're sitting, talking.

Joyce Meyer: Well, you may have noticed that Jai's hair is a lot longer than when you saw it the last time.

Jai Williams: Yeah, just a little bit longer than usual.

Joyce Meyer: She's gotten it caught in the car door.

Jai Williams: Yes, and in the toilet.

Joyce Meyer: Sat on it when she came in here.

Jai Williams: Yes, and I was just kinda like this... And that just sparked the conversation about hair. Ginger has her hair straight today.

Ginger Stache: My hair's straight today. I don't do that very often 'cuz it's far too much work. And I'm basically, against doing something that doesn't stay put, and you know won't last for long.

Erin Cluley: Not in the summer in Missouri.

Ginger Stache: No.

Erin Cluley: It's just not worth it.

Ginger Stache: By the end of the day... And then, Joyce was telling us how wonderfully she takes care of her hair, how often she gets it done. That's why it always looks just right.

Joyce Meyer: Well, my hair is baby fine. It's just like baby hair, so I have to get it cut every 2 weeks, and because there's some white stuff under here.

Jai Williams: Never!

Ginger Stache: Is it dandruff?

Joyce Meyer: I also get it touched up every two weeks, otherwise...

Ginger Stache: I get those little gray sparkles. Oh, yeah.

Jai Williams: I call it wisdom.

Joyce Meyer: Otherwise, my wisdom starts showing. I don't know how gray my hair is, nor do I ever intend to know.

Erin Cluley: I found some gray hairs this week. And I said, "Michael, look at that"! And he said, "What is it"? "It's gray hair". So, I tried to pull it and I pulled the wrong one, so it's still there.

Jai Williams: Yeah, they're stubborn little boogers.

Ginger Stache: Well, that's why we talk about being in all stages of life. It's different stages of gray hair that teaches us a lot.

Jai Williams: That is so funny.

Ginger Stache: Well, over the weekend, I had the opportunity to be with our two-year-old granddaughter, and she's so fun. But she's at this stage, her two-year-old talking stage, where she kinda of sounds like a gangster from the 20s, you know, so.

Jai Williams: What does that sound like?

Ginger Stache: So, she's like, "Gimme some milk, yeah". She loves to say "Sure," her answer everything. So, like, "Do you want some food with your milk"? And she'll say, "Sure, sure". So, she's got that thing going on right now and she'll smile a big dimple and we will give her anything that she wants. I'm like the henchman that just goes right along with it and gives her everything. But one of the things that I was thinking about is how hard we are working to tell her, at two years old, who she is. "That you are loved, that you are brilliant, that you are beautiful, that you are destined for good things because God is with you". And for all of us, as adults, we haven't all had that kind of upraising from two years old on. And even, if we have, 'cuz I have, we still hit those times that we kind of forget who we are. So, today, we're talking about what a lot of people have called, like, "An imposter syndrome," where you kind of feel like, "Mmm, one of these days, they're all going to figure it out that I'm not really who they think I am. You know, I don't have it all together, the way that it looks". Let me start with you guys. Have you guys ever felt that impostor thing?

Erin Cluley: Yes. Would you like me to tell you more about it?

Ginger Stache: It's up to you. You don't have to but there's not much talking it out if you don't.

Erin Cluley: I'm gonna give you one-word answers, today. Absolutely, I think like, even sitting here, on this podcast, we've been doing this for almost two years and even still I'll get here and I'm like, "Erin, who do you think you are that you should be sitting here talking with Joyce Meyer and these women who are brilliant? You have nothing to say. Like, eventually, they're going to figure out you're just making it up". No, this is not like, a feel sorry for me, this is me just being honest. So, even, as like an adult, we all have those moments.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, I think we've all felt that at different times, we've all kind of been there.

Erin Cluley: Yeah, absolutely.

Jai Williams: You have a lot of value though: I just want you to know.

Erin Cluley: But this is a preface to say I don't need you to validate me. I know you love me. You can tell me later.

Jai Williams: I'll tell you later.

Ginger Stache: I love just watching this conversation.

Erin Cluley: But I think we all experience that in our lives every day. You are put in situations, even if you know that you're supposed to be there, you still are,the enemy knows where to get you and when to hit you and you question yourself.

Joyce Meyer: I can give you some good news.

Erin Cluley: I love it.

Joyce Meyer: When you get old enough, you finally get over it.

Erin Cluley: Do you? Do you just not care anymore?

Joyce Meyer: You just get to the point where it's like, "It is what it is, take it or leave it".

Erin Cluley: I love that. I look forward to that.

Ginger Stache: Did you have that at different times in your life?

Joyce Meyer: Oh, yeah. I had a lot of it because I was abused in my childhood and I certainly didn't know who I was and tried to be like everybody, tried to be like Dave, who's nice and calm, and my pastor's wife, who was sweet and merciful, and my neighbor, who could make her family's clothes and had a garden. And I tried it all, and before I finally got around to just being me, and finding out who I was, in Christ. And, you know, a lot of people still, it amazes me, really, how many people still don't understand what that means.

Ginger Stache: Well, let's start there, because we've all talked about on this podcast. You talk about it all the time, how this is very likely, the most important thing you can grasp. Because you can't even understand salvation: who Christ is and what he's done for you without this knowledge. So, what does it mean "In Christ" when you say that?

Joyce Meyer: Well, let me just first say that a large majority of churches don't even teach this. So, I was in church for a lot of years before I knew who I was in Christ. And it's actually, a phrase that's all over the Bible, especially, in Paul's letters. And I have a thing on the internet for anybody who wants to look it up called "Knowing who I am in Christ". And I don't,i think there's like 40 different things on here, that the Bible actually, says that we are in Christ. I won't read 'em all. But just for example, "I am complete in him". So, let's just take an example, like say, a single girl is invited to something where she knows everybody's gonna be married couples. Well, if she doesn't know who she is in Christ, then she can feel like she's really out of place. She doesn't belong there, she shouldn't be there. "Something's wrong with me, because I'm not married". But if she knows that she's complete in Christ, then she doesn't have to have a man to complete her. She's complete in who she is in him. And it's the same way really, with anything. Like, even, like, what you were talking about Erin, about feeling unqualified to be here. You're qualified in him because you made yourself available. And so, you know, "I'm alive with Christ. I'm free from the law of sin and death. I'm far from oppression, and I will not live in fear. I'm born of God and the evil one does not touch me". And it's just, I mean, every one of these are just absolutely beautiful. And if you can really learn who you are in Christ and it really,we're in Christ by faith. When you receive Christ as your Savior then you're considered to be in Christ. And so, if you're in something, whatever that something gets, you get. So, we were considered to be in Christ when he died on the cross. So, when he died, we died. When he was raised from the dead, we were raised from the dead.

Ginger Stache: He took our sin.

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, he took our sin. When he ascended on high and was seated at the right hand of the father, the Bible says, in Ephesians, that we too, are seated at the right hand of God. So, literally, believers live in two places. We live here with our feet on the earth, but we're also living in heavenly places with Christ. And when you can really grasp how much he loves you, and what he's done for you, and that he says, he never will leave you nor forsake you, his thoughts toward you are more than the sands of the sea, you're made acceptable in him: and if you meditate on those things instead of what's wrong with you all the time, pretty,then after a while, you get it. But it's amazing how many people that I talk to about knowing who you are in Christ, 'cuz that's the only thing that's gonna keep you from being insecure. Either that, or you're gonna try to get it through your career, how much money you have, how you look, what you wear, who you know. And I'm done with all that. You know, I went through all that and that's all just a bunch of fluff and air. You talk about something that's an imposter, that is. Because it says, "Come here and I'll make you complete. I'll make you secure". And then it fails you, just when you need it the most.

Erin Cluley: It's really interesting, 'cuz when you Google: "Knowing who you are in Christ," online, your list pops up, and very few other things come up. You'll get a couple of blogs from other people. And I think that speaks to what you're saying, that's not a part of our culture. And people don't know to be taught or to learn who they are in Christ. "I have a career and I'm gonna chase that, and I will figure it out there," or "I'll be validated in this relationship". But we aren't taught, often enough,

Joyce Meyer: And it's actually, one of the most important foundational doctrines that Paul taught, "Who we are in Christ".

Ginger Stache: And it takes hearing it and over, and over, and over, really, for it to sink in. So, what we're gonna do, right now, is we're going to listen to another way that Joyce explains it, in one of her teachings, and then, we'll come back and we'll talk more about it.

Joyce Meyer: 2 Corinthians 5:21: "For our sake he made Christ [virtually]," that means really, "To be sin who knew no sin, so that in and through him we might become [endued with, viewed as being in, and examples of] the righteousness of God [what we ought to be, approved and acceptable and in right relationship with him, by his goodness]". Now, to be honest, you could take that one verse and study it for the next two weeks and maybe, if that's all you looked at for two weeks and thought about it and meditated on it, it might begin to start to sink on,sink in. Jesus took your sin because he's good, not because you're good. He took the penalty, he took the punishment, and he gave you,gave you his righteousness that he earned by never doing anything wrong and it,we can't figure it out mathematically in our head but the Bible says that if we believe that then God views us or he sees us as his very own righteousness because he sees us through Christ. He sees us,he doesn't see us in our old sinful state, he sees us as these new creatures that we are, where? Inside, in our spirit. You are a spirit, you have a soul, you live in a body. So you have all this amazingly wonderful, good stuff on the inside of you. Now, you still have a flesh too that has the sin principle in it. This is why after you become a really committed Christian you sometimes feel that you're in a war all the time. Do you ever feel like you're two people? "The thing I wanna do I can't do. The thing I don't wanna do, I'm always doing". I mean, I can make such plans for holiness laying in bed. I mean, I'm not gonna say anything wrong that day. I'm gonna be so submissive and such a good wife, and I'm not gonna talk back and I'm gonna be kind. I'm not gonna gossip about anybody. I mean, I'm just,i am so good until I put my feet on the floor.

Ginger Stache: Can't we all relate to that? We make these wonderful plans for our own righteousness, and boy, then like you said.

Jai Williams: I'm so perfect before I get out of bed.

Ginger Stache: Yeah, oh yeah.

Erin Cluley: Full of joy.

Jai Williams: So full of joy.

Joyce Meyer: Listen to this one scripture. This just leaves your mouth hanging open in awe. "I am holy and without blame, before him, in love".

Ginger Stache: Okay, now, let me ask you what is going through people's minds. "I know better than that. I have messed up so many times, I'm not without blame. So, how does that work for me, in my imperfections"?

Joyce Meyer: Well, see, they're missing the two words. "I am holy and without blame, 'before him' in love". And that's what you have to look for. Every one of these, "I am complete in him". This has nothing to do with me. It's,i call it the divine exchange. He takes all of our badness and gives us all of his goodness. You know, he takes all of our sin, everything, and he gives us all of his goodness. I liken it to, when I married, Dave, always say, "I didn't have a car, but he had a car. And as soon as he and I were married, suddenly I had a car". But I make a point that I didn't have that while we were dating. It was after I said, "I do". So, some people are still just dating Jesus, and they need to get around to the, "Yes, Lord".

Ginger Stache: A full-on commitment.

Joyce Meyer: A full-on commitment, and begin to walk in what's theirs. We're co-inheritors with him: everything that he inherited from God, the Bible says that we're joint heirs with him, we get too. And so, you either believe that or you believe how you feel. And I believed how I felt,

Ginger Stache: Those are the two options.

Joyce Meyer: I believed how I felt, and what I thought, and what other people said about me for years and years, and all I was, was miserable. And when, I finally decided to believe the Word of God over how I felt and what I thought, then I started having some joy, and some peace, and beginning to enjoy my life.

Jai Williams: I really,i love that. I love the analogy of the car. That just makes it so real, you know. And I'm just walking into something, these past couple years, like where I'm really like, grasping, how wrong I had it, you know? I thought I knew God, and you know, I knew who I was, you know. But looking back and just reflecting,you asked earlier, you know, if I've ever dealt with that. I just,I've really taken these past couple years to really do some life reflection, you know. To just be like, "What is up? Like, what, like, what are the good things, bad things, you know, what can I work on right now"? And just looking back, I realized how much of an imposter I've been the majority of my life. Like, I was,I'm a pastor's kid, even though my relationship with my dad wasn't perfect. But I'm a pastor's kid, and I thought that, that was my identity, at first. Everywhere I went, I was, you know, pastor Vaughn's daughter, like, that was my thing. You know, I was a worship leader. Then,but then, going to a school where I was the only,one of the only black girls, like, in my school. and I, look back at pictures of me, even in high school, where I had blonde hair. I got blue contacts. I didn't realize,i didn't even realize, I look crazy, like... I didn't even realize,i wanted to fit in so badly that I even, I have long, I still love braids, don't get me wrong. I got a couple blonde streaks in there, ain't nothing wrong with that. But, I'm sayin', like, I had a full head of blonde braids and blue contacts wanting to fit in so badly. Until the fact that, even when I got when I got married, I became his wife, you know? And so, now, in this season of my life, trying to figure it out, I'm like, "God, who am I for real"? And I realize, all that time, like, I was dating God, but I was married to the other situations. I was married to,my identity was in my father, or who I looked like in school, or what I did, or the job I got, the degrees I got, the marriage. But now, it's really,it was a reality check. And so, when you brought that up it just really struck something in me like, I am so at a place now, where I just want to be like, one with him that the car is now mine too. You know, like, my identity is found in him, not in who I'm with, or what I'm doing.

Ginger Stache: How are you making that shift?

Jai Williams: Talking like this. Being,and actually, having those reality check moments, to look back. Taking that time to reflect and be, like, "Girl! You not this high and mighty. You know, like, that's nothing. Nobody cares what you did, nobody cares what you do". Like, it's about who you are with him, and really just, having those honest conversations with God, and being honest with him, and repenting, and saying, "God, you know what? I had it all wrong. Teach me what this looks like". I'm almost feeling like, and it's hard at almost 40 now, like, that I'm,i feel like I'm starting over in an extent, into an extent. And it's not a bad thing. And I'm encouraged by Joyce, like, the fact that you talk about this stuff. And I know that, like, how old were you, when you married, Dave? And you realized,

Joyce Meyer: 26.

Jai Williams: Oh, okay. So,but I'm saying,like the, when I hear like, how even,

Joyce Meyer: I didn't realize it, when I first married Dave. I gave him a lot of trouble, for a long time, because I didn't know who I was in Christ. If you don't know, if you don't have your identity straight and know who you are, you normally put that off on other people. And you want them to make you feel good.

Jai Williams: You want them to make you whole.

Joyce Meyer: And you know, I remember, it was a few years, but God told me, he said, "Stop giving Dave the responsibility for your joy".

Erin Cluley: I remember, I've heard you say that a couple times, and I've always felt really annoyed by it, 'cuz I'm like, "That's what I'm doing, erin. I am putting my feelings of myself on somebody else. I have to take that back to God". You're not annoying. What you told me was hard, because it's where I was. It's so good.

Jai Williams: It's not easy.

Joyce Meyer: And you know, something that's important for people to know: no matter how old you are, the devil loves nothing better than to try to make you feel bad about yourself. And I just went through a period of, I don't know what it was, maybe a couple of weeks, where I got focused on: you're not praying enough, you're not doing this, you're not doing that, you're not doing something else. And so, clearly, this morning, when I first got up, I heard the Lord speak in my heart and say, "I don't want you to think about anything this morning unless it's something good about yourself". And see, God actually wants us to have good thoughts about our self, "In him". I'm creative in him. I'm talented in him. I'm forgiven in him. I can do all things through him. I'm complete in him. And,people feel like that's wrong. You know, we, somehow or another, we feel like it's "Holy" to think that you're a rotten, no-good, you know, that, that's what God wants. But he doesn't want that. He really can't do anything with us until we know who we are in him.

Jai Williams: That's so beautiful. It's beautiful to, like, own that. And I'm walking in that now. That when you asked, like, "What are some of the things that you're doing"? I'm doing that. I'm actually, allowing myself to speak, nice things about myself, and not be defined by the things I've been through in my past that did identify, that did define who I was, for season. Like, it was my story and I felt like you can't,i didn't know myself past my story.

Ginger Stache: You're doing something really powerful, and what you're always teaching us, is taking the power away from that imposter, through our own honesty and vulnerability. Because that impostor is what's out there, trying to make everybody think everything's great. You know, "I've got it all together. Everything is looking good over here". But when we can just be vulnerable and say, "Hey, I'm just guessing at this. I'm walking with God and he's teaching me so many things, but I'm so far from perfect," it takes the power away from that whole feeling of being an imposter, and it helps keep you in Christ. Because I think, this walk, with Christ, is definitely, a bit of a,in and out, slippery slope sometimes. We're never in and out of our relationship with Christ because what he did counts for everything. But I take steps forward and backwards, sometimes.

Joyce Meyer: Well, sure, your mind, the devil attacks, your mind, the Battlefield of the Mind. He attacks your mind and he does it everybody. And just about the time, you think you've got it nailed down, you know, then, he'll attack you and you have to go back to the beginning. But i,it just came to me so strongly this morning, what Paul said, "One thing I do, it is my one aspiration forgetting what lies behind and pressing on to the things that are ahead". So, every, single day his mercy's new, and he doesn't want us thinking about yesterday's mistakes. We're sorry for 'em. We wish we wouldn't have done it, but we'll probably, do it again and need forgiveness again. But I think, before you can ever know who you are in Christ, I think, you have to know who you're not in yourself. So, you kinda have to, I like to say, "Come to the end of yourself". So, it seems like God just has to stand back and let you try and fail, try and fail, try and fail, try and fail, try and fail, until you finally realize, "I can't do this. I can't live the Christian life. God's got to live it through me. I can't,you know, I can't keep up this imposter image anymore. It's completely worn me out. I can't pretend for people anymore that I'm not, you know, who I am".

Ginger Stache: I had a time like that 'cuz,talking about the way that I was raised. And I did have that benefit of always being told who I was in Christ, and kind of being raised in that. But sometimes, there are things that happen in our lives that are setbacks. And that,not because God did anything different, but,that twist our thoughts in a way that he never wanted us to be twisted. And so, at this time, you know, I was,it was before I worked here, quite a while before I worked here. And I was doing a daily talk show, hosting, you know, sharing all these great things that God is doing in people's lives and sharing the gospel, and then, I found out, and I've shared this before, but then I found out that my husband had an addiction to pornography. And at that point, I felt like all of these images of who I was, were just tossed aside. Because I could be this person at work, but when I went home, I knew I wasn't enough. When I went home, I wasn't good enough, or pretty enough, or what he needed because he was looking somewhere else. So, I'm still doing all these things, like we all do as Christians at church or wherever we go. You know, for me it was on television, in front of a lot of people. But I remember I have that, this feeling of, "If they only knew, if they could only see the anger inside of me, the hurt inside of me, they would know what an imposter I am because of all these feelings that I'm not sharing openly with everyone". And it was so wonderful, of God, after a lot of dealing with that. He gave me just this peace that I was dealing with those things with him, and it didn't all have to be in the open. But as long as I was continually walking through it with him, that he would bring out that vulnerability, that he would bring out who I really was, in him. That it's that relationship between me and him, that is that,more than even what everybody else sees. But when you do that, then it does spill out into what everybody else is seeing around you. And you're nothing, but you and God. 'Cuz, I had to learn that my value wasn't in how my husband saw me or what I saw missing in myself. My value was in how God saw me, and I had to learn that lesson again, and just kind of go back to the beginning.

Joyce Meyer: Sometimes, we have to learn 'em again and again. Like I said, you know, my mind was attacked for a couple of weeks, of you're not, you're not, you're not doing this, you're not doing that. And I know better than that, you know? And I had to just hear it from God, again. And that's okay.

Erin Cluley: One thing, when you're sharing about the car, that, that analogy, that I thought of, was how, when you say, "I do," you're continually getting to know either your spouse, but then, also, your relationship with Christ. And so, I walked with God for a long time, but I'm still like, every day seems to be new. And you'll go through seasons, like, when I had children, I looked different, I responded to things differently. My,like, I didn't change, but parts of me had to change because I now have two humans, I'm taking care of, and it just affects your everything. So, I was,it's like, I had to reintroduce myself to God, and myself, in that season. And I've had that happen, a couple different occasions, where it's like, God's taking me to the next step, like, the next level in how I know and relate to him. So, I get to know him more, which helps me know, me more, in him. If that makes sense, but,it does feel like it's something you're ever growing.

Ginger Stache: Because the closest, the closer we get to him, the more we understand what he has given us, what he has done for us, what he has put in us, the more we do get to know ourselves. That the God of all creation created us in his image. So, we learn so much about ourselves, the more we learn about him.

Joyce Meyer: I think, people think that God wants their "Works" and what he wants is that relationship.

Ginger Stache: Yeah.

Joyce Meyer: Now, we are to do good works, but it's out of the overflow of who we are in him. Not to earn anything from him, or to gain anything from him, or to be proud of ourselves, or, you know, to have this good record, but just because of what he's done for us.

Jai Williams: Yeah. And that,you know, that is something that I really did struggle with was that workspace. And we've talked about it so many times on the show, but I just thought because I did this, or didn't do this, because I was a virgin before I got married, because I didn't do that, you know, that my marriage was protected, that my everything was protected, because...Because...Because... I did this, I did that, and did that, you know?

Joyce Meyer: Yeah, i, i, i, i.

Jai Williams: Yeah, like, because I did all these golds,got all these gold stars, so then, why would my life ever be touched? You know, so... We're good here, right? I did all the right stuff but it's a hard reality check, when it's like, boom, "No, you're not exempt, you know, from life happening". But can I be really, really honest with you all? Like, I'm a little down today, because,and this is something I was going to ask you about...

Joyce Meyer: You're hiding it good.

Jai Williams: Thank you. Because I've been a professional imposter for most 40 years. And so, last night, and this is,i wanna ask you about how to like, let go of the past and not allow it to identify who you are, you know? Last night,and I posted about it and everything. My daughter was headed back to go see her dad, and I didn't want her to go at night. I didn't want her to have a flight at night. But her dad wanted that. And he wanted to get a flight, you know, at night, because he just was ready to get her back or whenever. I hate co-parenting, but I'm just being transparent. But, as she was going back, then, my kid, she wasn't feeling that well. And so, she's already not the most like, alert kid, that's like, you know, she's been coddled. Like, I've been a good mom, I guess. So, she's not that aware in the airports. And so,and she actually, was like, "Well, mom, maybe, I was thinking about being with you". Because she literally, at our connecting flight, 'cuz there are no direct flights. At our connecting flight, she was sitting at a stop where she was headed back to st. Louis. She didn't pay attention. She's,so, she was supposed to be headed to where her dad is, but she was sitting, so, she missed her flight. And she's never missed her flights. She's only seventeen. And grant you, that's a pretty mature age. But for her, like, at nighttime, no more flights at night. I was really, really upset. And I was just like, I felt so helpless. I feel like a bad mom, 'cuz I'm like, how am I even in this position where my kid has to go back and forth, you know, to see her parents? And so, I felt like a bad mom even though it wasn't my fault, you know? And then, she called, and she was scared. But, of course, I'm like, "I gotta make this work. I gotta make this work". And so, I was calling friends to find out,like, 'cuz, I have friends everywhere, thank God, you know? So, one of my friends ended up getting her. But before, I was so angry with my ex-husband. I mean, I was angry. Like, "How could you have put us in this position"? You know, that,and she was not feeling well, and she's stuck. I was just like, I lost it, guys. I lost it, on the phone, with him. I let,and it,and like things that I even thought that I was healed from, I clearly was not, you know? And grant you, I know it takes time. But I was,y'all,shoo, he heard my mind last night. And I felt bad, and I was,i repented to him. I was like, "I'm sorry. I'm just upset, and when my baby's involved, then it just makes me upset". But I lost it. And it was,it was ugly. I was ugly. I was just ugly. And I'm like, and I repent, I was like, "God, please forgive me, help me". And thankfully, your,one of your executive assistants, who got me,her name is pennie. She got me this little bracelet that says 26.2. Now that,i wear it. It's a marathon, not a sprint. And so, I wear it every day ever since she got it to me. And I looked at it last night, I'm like, "I'm still moving forward," like,even though, I have moments that I backtrack. But, how do I let that go? 'cuz, I woke up this morning, I felt pretty good like, "Okay. Thank you. Brand-new, mercy. Brand-new grace". We say that all the time, right? And I was like, before I got out of the bed, I felt perfect, then I got out of the bed, you know? And I was just like, "Oh, how could I have let myself go back there"? You know, so.

Joyce Meyer: You know how the Bible says that God works all things out for good. And I think, a lot of times, when those things happen, that doesn't mean that, you know, what your husband did was right, or the way it turned out was right, but God will take a situation like that and he'll pull the weaknesses in you out, so you can see them. So, you,you can't deal with something that you don't know is there or that you're hiding from. And, as far as, the letting go, it's just,it's a decision that we have to make. And that the whole, feeling guilty thing, when,like, okay, you misbehaved, you feel guilty, well, that's our way of trying to pay for our sin. Guilt is our way of trying to pay for our sin. God, had to show me that. And, he said, "I've already paid, I don't need you to pay. What I need you, is to be confident and able to do what I've called you to do". And so, it's a by faith thing. You know, you let go of it because he said to let go of it. And you know, I don't mean to make it sound like it's just a breeze, because it's not. But what happens, every time you go through something like that, you learn a little bit more, how to let go. And I can't promise you, you won't go through something again that will teach you how to let go. I mean, I suffered with guilt for so many years, and I can't even begin to tell you how happy I am to be free from that now. But it did not happen overnight. Because I grew up feeling guilty because my dad was abusing me, feeling like it was my fault. And so, guilt was,i mean, I actually, I didn't feel right if I didn't feel wrong. I mean, you know, if I felt right about myself, "Well, something's wrong with that". But if people won't give up, they will get there. That's why Paul said, "One thing," he said, it was a most important thing to him. So, think about that. The apostle Paul said, "That's the most important thing to me, is to let go of yesterday's mistakes, and press on to what's ahead".

Ginger Stache: I think we have such a strong desire, a drive to be perfect.

Joyce Meyer: Oh, yeah.

Ginger Stache: And that formulates, our self-worth, our self-value, and that's what we're talking about here is that's what we're fighting against naturally. I know, I hate it when I do these things that you're talking about too, and I, you know, will act out, or make a wrong choice, or say the wrong thing, whatever it may be, and beat myself up over it. And coming back to that point where God is not asking us to be perfect. I'm going to bring this up, 'cuz I talk about this all the time. But Psalm 139 is one of those things that God just brought to me so strongly, in that time that I was talking about, where I felt like I was just Messing up all the time, and I wasn't enough, no matter what I did. And just the way it begins, it says, "Lord, you have searched me, you know me. You know when I sit and when I rise. You perceive my thoughts from afar. You discern my going out, and my lying down. You are familiar with all my ways. Before a word is on my tongue, Lord, you knew it". He knew what you were gonna do and what you were going to say. And yet, then, it goes on to say, "You love me so much". That verse that Joyce was talking about. "Your thoughts toward me are more than the grains of sand on the beach". So, even, when I know that I am so far from perfection, that I just blew it in a big way, God comes back and says, "I know everything about you and I still adore you, and I'm gonna help you. I'm gonna teach you, and I'm not gonna leave you in that place". We're never going to reach perfection, but we're going to get better, and I've gotten so much better. And I've seen so much growth really, in all of us, I've...

Joyce Meyer: You were surprised by your behavior, but God wasn't.

Ginger Stache: Yes, yeah.

Jai Williams: I was like, "Whoo, clutch my Pearls. She's still got work to do".

Erin Cluley: It's so funny you say that. I had a very similar experience last night, for something that, I too, thought I was way past. And I was actually, like, this week thinking, "Wow, Erin, we are doing so good, here". We, we, Erin is doing so good.

Jai Williams: Erin, myself, and I.

Erin Cluley: Me, myself and i. And last night, I lost it. And blew up.

Jai Williams: Last night, was a night!

Joyce Meyer: You guys were a mess last night!

Erin Cluley: It's so good you're here today. And I'm hearing the words come out of my mouth, and I'm thinking, "Erin, you,like, stop speaking". And I couldn't, and I thought, "Well"...

Joyce Meyer: "Just shut up".

Erin Cluley: "We'll just go with it, at this point". But it was awful, and I had the same thought you did, and I thought, "This is not where," I have come so far, to go back to that spot, that's not where I want to go. So...

Jai Williams: I love you friend.

Erin Cluley: I love you, too.

Joyce Meyer: Boy, you gotta a lot of letting go to do.

Jai Williams: Yeah, but what that does,and honestly, it seems like the more transparent I become about talking about where I am, and,currently, like right now, the more like, the enemy tries to like prick at things, to like, allow that to come back up and fester back up. And so, he knew what we were studying about, he knew,and I'm like, "I am not that person anymore"! I was declaring it. "Ew, yeah! I don't lose my temper like that anymore! You know, I'm over him. Sayonara sucker"! You know, like, then it's just like, "Oh, your baby". When it's something with my kid, it's something that happens. I don't know. And I'm like... I turn into the hulk.

Ginger Stache: Mama bear comes out.

Jai Williams: Yeah, I was like... You know, like, "How could you"? And then, it was certain things that came out in that conversation that had nothing to do with my baby being at the airport. It was like, "You did this, and you cheated on me"! And I was like, "Oh, God, what is wrong"? I'm like,she's just, and then, in my mind, I could just hear Satan saying, like, "Yeah, you're still that person. You're still that person". And I'm like, "I don't want, that is not my identity. That's not who I am". So, I did immediately, and so, that's how I know growth is happening. I, immediately, denounced it. I still felt really bad, but I denounced it. Like, "No, that's not who I am. I even humbled myself. I apologized". You know, and I repented to him and to the Lord. And so, I like, "Now, that is growth". So, i,you know, gave myself a little encouragement and said, "You're not as bad as you used to be".

Joyce Meyer: Well, everybody watching us today, ought to feel pretty good about themselves.

Ginger Stache: You know, it does do something to know you're not alone in all these things that you're feeling or doing. Whether, it's today, or tomorrow, or ten years ago, you know, whatever it may have been. That vulnerability takes away so much of that. We can quit being an imposter, and learn and walk in, who we are in Christ, what he's done for us. 'Cuz, I don't have to stay at that point where I felt like I wasn't enough.

Joyce Meyer: And the most important thing is to never give up.

Ginger Stache: Yeah.

Joyce Meyer: Now, I want everybody watching to remember that: do not give up. It may be a slow go, but you'll get there. And don't let the devil tell you that you're any different than anybody else, because you're not.

Ginger Stache: Thank you all so much. You know, it's a good talk. It's hard stuff to throw out there, but,

Jai Williams: Really hard.

Erin Cluley: My notes were about,all about how I prepared I am for this, and how well I'm doing in this area, and I just sat here and...

Jai Williams: I do wanna, like, say this before we leave. It's like, because I grew up in church, and I grew up surrounded by leaders, and this is no shame towards it, but these types of talks are so, are like, are not common. And we talked about that at the beginning, they're not common in the Christian world, in the church world. I was surrounded by people that I thought were perfect, and it shattered my heart to find out that they weren't.

Joyce Meyer: Well, that's what's gotta be turned around.

Jai Williams: Exactly.

Joyce Meyer: I've written a book that will come out this fall, on being authentic, and especially, in the church. We feel like that, I get so tired, "How are you"? "Fine, I'm fine. Praise the Lord, I'm fine". It's like, "No, you ain't. You ain't fine".

Jai Williams: Yeah, not at all.

Joyce Meyer: And there's two problems: we're afraid we'll be judged, but we're also, afraid people will tell our secrets. And so, there's a lot that people have to learn about being discreet and keeping people secrets, and not judging them. But it's a shame that we have to pretend with each other, and that we can't have honest conversations like these.

Jai Williams: And that's one reason why I share so candidly here. First of all, I trust you guys. I forget that we have all of our other friends watching sometimes. But I really don't want to, I don't want to be, my daughter, deserves better than that. The people that look up to me, that I lead in church, like, they deserve better than that. And I thank you for leading that charge Joyce. Like, you lead the charge of transparency. And so, like, I'm just not out here just doing it because, you know, it's just something that I enjoy doing. No, I'm really trying to break a habit of something that I even saw a growing up, like, that facade of perfectionism, and break that off of myself. I don't want that. I want to be honest. And if we're gonna be honest, let's just be honest. And that's what I appreciate about you guys. You guys are helping me figure out who I am too, and know who my identity is in Christ. So, thank you ladies.