Jonathan Bernis - Separating Fact from Fiction, Israel's War
Jonathan Bernis: Shalom and welcome to Jewish Voice. Thank you for joining me today. I'm Jonathan Bernis, and I'm joined once again by my co-host, Ezra Benjamin. We know that many of you care about Israel and the Jewish people, but we've seen a worldwide rise in antisemitism especially following October 7th in Israel's war against Hamas. And even amongst Bible believing Christians like you, there's confusion on the underlying issues that have led to this war. Is Israel to blame? What is the truth? Today, Rabbi Jack Zimmerman, our staff evangelist here at Jewish Voice, has returned to help us to cut through the lies and misinformation that's spread on media outlets around the world about the war in Israel.
Jack Zimmerman: Thanks.
Jonathan Bernis: Jack let's continue just sorting through fact and fiction about the war.
Jack Zimmerman: We know the saying, tell a lie often enough and obviously people will start to believe that it's true, but repetition does not equal truth. And there's a lot of confusion out there because you hear one thing on the media but then there's something else called reality. And really, that's why I'm so blessed to have the opportunity to cut through what we're hearing and look not only, of course, at what the Bible says about it as believers, but what does history say about it. What does reality say about it? Can we look at these accusations brought about by whether it's Palestinian Islamic jihad, the Houthis, Hamas, Hezbollah, and say, "Wait a minute, timeout. Reality says exactly the opposite". And why are so many people accepting it as if it is gospel? And so, I'm excited to be able to talk about that today.
Jonathan Bernis: Yes, apartheid.
Jack Zimmerman: Yeah.
Jonathan Bernis: Israel's engaging in apartheid. We're hearing that all over the world, college campuses. This has been going on, this is not new. College professors on most college campuses has been teaching these poor students, poor parents actually, the ones paying they $70,000 a year, that Israel's guilty of apartheid
Ezra Benjamin: And there's one picture that since I was a kid, when you hear Israel's guilty of apartheid, there's one photo that continues to show up, different versions of the same image, a giant concrete wall with Palestinians trapped on one side and Israel living a good life on the other.
Jonathan Bernis: There we go.
Ezra Benjamin: Talk about that.
Jack Zimmerman: The vast majority of people who accuse Israel of apartheid have no idea what the word apartheid means. Look let's just call this what it is. This is why when a college professor at Berkeley says, "You know what, I'm gonna do a study. I'm gonna do a survey and I'm gonna ask 250 students, pro-Palestinian students, when they say from the river to the sea, what river or sea are they talking about"? And a vast majority of them don't know, and they don't care to know why is this so important? And I've gotta share this with you because it just really speaks to the fact that people are doing things and saying things that they have no idea what they're talking about. So, let me give you the definition of apartheid so that we can first start there. Proper definition of apartheid, apartheid is a policy or a system of seGregation or discrimination against someone on the grounds of race, color, creed, culture, natural origin, etcetera, etcetera. You wanna talk about apartheid, look at South Africa 40, 50 years ago, which, that's apartheid. Which to me is crazy because Cyril Ramaphosa, the president of South Africa, who should know better of what apartheid is and he's accusing Israel of apartheid. Apartheid...
Jonathan Bernis: That's always the connection, right? South Africa.
Jack Zimmerman: South Africa is, right, but you know what? It's a connection from the enemy. Always accuse someone else of what you yourself are guilty of. But, Ezra, you alluded to this before and you're right. One point seven million who identify as Palestinians living in Israel, that represents 20% of Israel's population. And in accordance with the declaration of independence, these Palestinians enjoy the same exact rights as Jewish citizens do. Guaranteed 1948, they're the only free Arabs in the Middle East. They serve in Israel, listen to this, as mayors, army officers, police commanders, members of parliament, and this next one is a big one. Israel currently has a Supreme Court justice, and they love him. In fact, they love Khaled Kabub so much they said, "Listen, take a guess how long your term is? Until you die. We want you in here". So, Palestinians on the Supreme Court. We mentioned before we alluded to Israel's Knesset, 120 members, 10 of them identify as Arab Palestinian. How is any of this apartheid? How can it be? This is just simply another lie that is manufactured to churn the waters, and it means absolutely nothing.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah. When I talk to Palestinians in places like Bethlehem, Jericho, secretly, to a person, they preferred life under the Israeli government.
Jack Zimmerman: You bet.
Jonathan Bernis: Every single one that I've spoken to. They had a better life.
Jack Zimmerman: And Jonathan, I'm not surprised because it was about 10 or 15 years ago, Harvard university actually did a study where they said, "You know what? Let's talk to Palestinians who live in Israel and ask them if they'd rather live in Israel than their Arab country of origin, let's say it's Jordan". And so, they did the survey, they said, would you rather live in Israel than one of your own Arab countries? Four out of five, 80% of them said, "Look, Harvard, not only would we rather live in Israel than our own Arab country of origin, we'd rather live in Israel than any other country on the face of the earth. We love it here. There's peace here, this is a wonderful land, everybody's friendly with one another. The $2 an hour they would've given me to work in Genene, you know, in Samaria, I do the same job here I get $20 and hour".
Jonathan Bernis: Jack, getting back to apartheid, you can't deny it, there's walls all over Israel, we've seen the horrible pictures, looking like the Palestinians are walled off, they're seGregated, they're in ghettos. That's the impression that the world's getting. Checkpoints, that looks like apartheid. Why the walls?
Jack Zimmerman: This is a major objection from people who say that Israel is trying to keep Palestinians in an open air prison, won't let them in from the Gaza strip, won't let them in from Judea and Samaria, and to a fault, I honestly believe that the people who are saying this have never been to Israel. They...
Jonathan Bernis: Or never lived in Israel.
Jack Zimmerman: Right, right. I mean, the proliferation of arm chair quarterbacks over the past ten months has been astounding. Because if you go to Israel you see something very interesting. Are there checkpoints in Israel keeping Palestinians out? Absolutely, but if you were to look at those checkpoints what a lot of folks don't know, is at those checkpoints more than 350,000 Palestinians go in and out of those checkpoints every single week. Israel has no problem letting them in. In fact, when they come in they come in for one of three reasons. They're coming in because many of them live, obviously in the outside territories but they come into Israel to work. If they don't come into Israel to work and they're not coming for that, others come because they wanna go to the Temple Mount and pray. Still, other Palestinians come in because they say, "I am in dire need of medical care, and I know that Israel has the best medical care". So they come in for those three reasons, and Israel has absolutely no problem letting Palestinians in. You also have Palestinians who wanna come in, they don't come in to work, they don't wanna pray, they don't need medical care, they come in as terrorists and kill innocent people. And those innocent people, by the way, remember, we said that 20% of Israel's population is Palestinian, so you're coming in you're not only killing innocent Israelis, but you've got a one in a five chance of murdering one of your own. Those are the people that Israel wants to keep out. That's why you've gotta build the walls and the checkpoints in the first place.
Jonathan Bernis: What they don't show now is a bus that's been blown up, they used to say suicide bombers, they're not suicide bombers, they're homicidal bombers.
Jack Zimmerman: That's right.
Jonathan Bernis: And you see a bus blown up, hundreds of Israelis killed in a night club. They had to build the walls.
Jack Zimmerman: Yes.
Jonathan Bernis: They have to have checkpoints. That's the sad reality.
Jack Zimmerman: And since they've built the walls and the checkpoints, guess what? You've got the best of both worlds. You have good Palestinians coming in and out and the Palestinian terrorists who used to get in each and every day in droves when the walls and checkpoints were not up, now more of them are being kept out and that's why you don't have such instances as you did 15, 20 years ago.
Ezra Benjamin: The walls are a necessary but unfortunate, tragic in some cases because family members, Palestinian family members, one is separated from the other, but it's to protect and preserve innocent life. And speaking of the suicide bombers, which is one of the main reasons the walls went up in the first place, since October 7th they're not called bombers anymore, they're called resisters.
Jack Zimmerman: Right.
Ezra Benjamin: Right? And this just feeds in, right, tell the same narrative long enough and loud enough, and eventually the world believes you. And it's amazing to see this eruption, now a year on, since October 7th, this eruption of free Palestine, pro-Palestine, "From the river to the sea, death to the Jews, get out of our land Jews", all over the world. Not just in the Middle East...
Jack Zimmerman: Yes.
Ezra Benjamin: In the major cities of the world, in college campus. I mean, people aren't stupid, Rabbi Jack, right?
Jack Zimmerman: Sure.
Ezra Benjamin: And we're talking about this, I'm getting upset because I'm going, if these are the facts why are they not being proclaimed?
Jack Zimmerman: Sure. And a lot of this is answered spiritually. Where is it coming from and what is the root of all this? Because, as we said earlier, this did not start on October 6 or 7 of 2023, and it didn't start on June 4th of 1967 in the 6 day war, and it didn't start on may 14th of 1948, and no it didn't even start during the Bar Kokhba rebellion of 132. This goes back thousands and thousands of years to Genesis 3:15. I learned this from a very reputable source, I want you to know. But in Genesis 3:15, let me read the verse to you, and then I'll pull it apart, I'll break it down. It says this, "And I will put hostility," or tension or enmity, "Between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. He shall fatally bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel". So, you wanna know why this is all going on, Israel, Hamas, why the Jews are hated, why Israel's hated? Well, there you go. Got it? No you don't, because I need to unpack it, because in the language that it's written it's hard to decipher here, we need context. So, who's speaking? The Lord our God. Where? Garden of Eden. What's going on? The serpent has just tempted eve with the forbidden fruit, she's eaten it, she's gonna bring it to Adam and sin is introduced into the world and God is not happy. And so God puts the serpent on notice and basically said, "You know what you just did? You just started a war. Oh, it's not gonna come for a long, long time but there will be a war. And here's what's going to happen. The one who follows you," let's just call him satan, "Is going to be involved in a war with the seed of a woman". Okay, time out, that's weird.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah.
Jack Zimmerman: Because, biblically it's the man who has the seed. The only way a woman can have the seed is if she's, get this, imagine this concept, a woman who gives birth to a child without the aid of a man. Imagine that. You've got, what is that? We all know what that is. This is the earliest prophecy of the virgin birth in scripture, predates what we read in Matthew, predates what we read in Isaiah 7:14. So, thousands of years ago, the enemy was put on notice that the seed of the woman, the product of the virgin birth, Jesus, Yeshua, would be the one to come after him and destroy him. And who is Yeshua? King of Israel, king of the Jews. Therefore should it surprise anyone that the world, even when reality speaks otherwise, even when you got the facts on paper, that the world has a vested interest, allowing itself to be twisted by the mind of the devil, to have a vested interest in going after the people of Jesus' line and trying to destroy the very land where Jesus, Yeshua, is supposed to come back to before he brings about the ultimate destruction of ha-satan.
Jonathan Bernis: It's a bigger war than the war in the Middle East.
Jack Zimmerman: It is, it is. This war, you know what we're seeing...
Jonathan Bernis: Cosmic war.
Jack Zimmerman: Yeah. What we saw in October of 2023 is just the latest installment of something that the scripture spoke about some 5,00 plus years ago.
Ezra Benjamin: And when you see things that, over and over are not rational, that you can't explain. Like we said, people aren't stupid. How can you disregard these facts and camp on these ones over here? You have to ask the question if it's not rational, is it spiritual?
Jack Zimmerman: Yeah.
Ezra Benjamin: And that's exactly what it is.
Jonathan Bernis: And you have empowered by the spirit the wind at their back, the propaganda machine. Again, tell the same lie enough and people believe.
Ezra Benjamin: So, Jack, the protests around the world, and I think, I'm gonna ask you two questions. Tell us about your experience seeing these protests. What's some of the language? What's, you know, as you've encountered these protestors in some cases, face to face, what's your experience? And then, secondly, just kinda, to wrap up a very complex conversation. What should Christians do now? Right, the issues are complex, there's the onslaught of media, depending on which channel you watch.
Jack Zimmerman: Right.
Ezra Benjamin: What should followers of Jesus who understand "I'm supposed to stand with Israel, it's gotten really hard to keep doing that". Or, maybe some of decided, "I can't stand with Israel anymore". Speak to them.
Jack Zimmerman: Great questions to finish off. And regarding experiences with protestors, the first thing that comes to mind is, I don't know if you're formal with the columnist his name is Douglas Murray. But Douglas Murray was talking about, really, everything that we've been discussing and how right is wrong, wrong is right, dark is light, light is dark. And he essentially said, and I'm paraphrasing here, he said, "You know, you know that things have gone totally out of order when on October 7th scores of Israeli women are raped, and the world says nothing. Yet a month and a half, two months later, 100 Hamas militants are stripped to their underwear to see if they have guns and the world goes berserk". And it's so poignant and I think that speaks to it. That's the world that we're living in today, and this is what the Hamas, supposedly pro-Palestinian, and look they're not pro-Palestinian: let's call them who they are, they're antisemits. Because, guess what? If we know that Hamas is abusing its own Palestinian civilians, we know that, and you say that you are out there protesting for the rights of Palestine civilians, and yet at the same time you're wearing a Hamas headband, I'm sorry, what's wrong with you? You're obviously not understanding this. But the second one is, let me call this a note of Levity. About 11, 12 years ago. I was asked by the state of Montana to come up and speak at their governor's prayer breakfast. They were having an event celebrating Israel's stand by Israel, Genesis 12:3 etcetera. And so, I came up on a beautiful Saturday morning in Helena, Montana on the gorgeous campus of Carroll college. And it's held in the auditorium. We had about, I don't know, 1,500, 2,000 dignitaries from all across the state. It was about an hour before I was supposed to speak, and it's an honor just to be in the company of all these folks who are so supportive of Israel. And I had a woman representative come over to me and she said, "Rabbi Jack," she said, "I just wanna let you know," she said, "We're so glad you're here". She said, "But there are protestors outside". And you know, the first thought that came to my mind was, "In Montana? This is Montana. What do you mean a protest? What are you people protesting, hay bales? This is Montana". And so I thought about this for a while...
Jonathan Bernis: We love Montana.
Jack Zimmerman: Hey, you know, Montana. And I said, "You know what? I am going to go out there and I'm gonna confront this group of protestors". She got all worried, she said, "No, no, no. Please don't do that, we don't want anything to happen to you". And I said to her, these exact words, I said, "It's okay, I'm from New York". So that was exactly what I said.
Ezra Benjamin: They don't know what they're dealing with.
Jack Zimmerman: They don't know what they were dealing, "Montana? Come on, I'm, look, I've ridden the subways, you've ridden cows, you don't stand a chance". So, I start walking out of the building and I said, "You know what"? And I took my cellphone out of my pocket, and I said, "I'm gonna take a photo of this group of protestors and send this photo back to my wife Sandie so that she could see that her husband the father of Jordan, and Ryan, and Casey, took on this massive group of protestors". And I saved the photo, so I want you all to see this group of protestors that I encountered in that violent state of Montana. Here it is, count of three, one, two, three. There you go. There it is. You know, I don't mind when God teaches me a lesson in humility, but did it have to be in Helena, Montana? So I'm standing out there and I'm looking at these two people and I see that they're both holding up sings. But before I read the signs this thought occurs to me. Because I said, you know, I know I've never seen them before, but there is something about them that looks familiar, and I couldn't put my finger on it. And then I said, "There you go! It's them. It's them, it's the same couple". I mean, look, you know, the woman protestor she's holding up a sign that says, "Free Palestine". You know, in this photo they're holding up the pitchfork, same thing. Then I look at the guy and I see he's holding up a sign that says, "Christ is peace". I said, I just wanna let you know, I love your sign. He said, "Why, thank you so much". I said, "Oh, you're so welcome". And it's like, right, violent protestors, the guy and I are ready to do high tea, right? And then I said to the woman, she's holding up a sign that says, "Free Palestine," and I said, "I don't like your sign as much as I like his". I said, "Can I ask you a few questions"? She said sure. I said, "Why are you holding up that sign"? And she came up with the same false claims that all of us been hearing, because this has been going on for years. It's a regurgitation of...
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, she didn't know better.
Jack Zimmerman: She didn't know.
Jonathan Bernis: She's this very sweet lady, I can see it.
Jack Zimmerman: Right. Genocide, apartheid, you know, the whole nine yards. And I said, "Okay, can I ask you a few more questions," and she said sure. I said, "What was the Balfour Declaration of 1917"? She said, "I don't know". Alright. "What was the UN partition plan of 1947"? "I don't know". "What happened in the Gaza strip in 2005"? "I don't know". "Who was Zuheir Mohsen"? "I don't know". "What percentage of Israel's population identifies as Palestinian"? "I don't know". Every single question I asked her, she said, "I don't know". And I said, "Okay, then I have one more question, then, what are you doing holding up that sign? Doesn't it bother you in the least that you are holding up a sign and obviously taking a position on a cause that you, through your answers, just admitted to me you don't know anything about? That doesn't bother you at all". And stunned silence. I said, "You know what I know? What I know is if you would do your research and if you would look at history and look at the facts, and by the way, the Bible is an awfully good place to look, you might wanna do that first. And I promise you, if you do that with open eyes and honesty and throw away your preconceived notions, you will never come anywhere holding up a sign like that ever again". They don't know what they don't know.
Ezra Benjamin: Wow.
Jonathan Bernis: Well, we call ourselves believers. You call yourself a Christian, a believer, it means we believe in the living God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and we believe that his word is not just suggestions, that's our world view. Our world view should be based on the Word of God. That's right. And that's why we're sharing this truth with you. The truth will set you free. We hope we've given you a biblical world view, a biblical understanding of truth concerning Israel and the Middle East crisis. And, your job is to pray, your job is to proclaim, your job is to align with the Word of God.
Jonathan Bernis: Well I hope you're one that says, "I see it now, it's clear to me, and I'm gonna do something about it. I'm gonna proclaim and I'm gonna pray because I know the truth".
Jack Zimmerman: Yeah.
Jonathan Bernis: The Bible says the truth will set us free. Jack, thank you so much for everything you've shared. You have shared truth with us. I wanna ask you to pray for people. People have serious needs. They're concerned about the war, but they're also concerned about the economy and putting food on their table, and there's lots of issues that they're praying through, and we're praying with you. So, we're gonna join you. Just reach out in faith, now. And again, if you've never received Jesus as your Lord and Savior, all you have to do is to ask him to come into your life and he will. He'll forgive you of your sins and you'll begin a whole new life because you will become, as the Bible says, "A new creation".
Jack Zimmerman: Amen.
Jonathan Bernis: Jack.
Jack Zimmerman: Heavenly Father, you remind us in Matthew 6:28 through 30, say, "Look at how the lilies of the field grow, they don't toil, they don't spin. Not even Solomon in all of his glory is clothed like one of those. And yet Lord, if you clothed the grass of the field and the flowers which are alive today and tomorrow thrown into the furnace, how much more so will you not clothe and take care of us". We thank you Lord God that you are the God who supplies all of our needs. And father, we bless you, and in this prayer, Lord, I'm asking because the greatest need of all is the need for our Messiah, Yeshua. And it's my prayer, Lord God, if there's anyone out there who does not yet know Yeshua as Messiah, Lord, redeemer, Savior, God, king, and everything, that you would fill that need in their lives and in their hearts today, in the precious and holy name of Yeshua, amen and amen.
Ezra Benjamin: Amen.
Jonathan Bernis: Amen and amen. If you'd like you'd like more information about our ministry, you can log on to our website jewishvoice.tv. You can find so many helpful resources on our website and you can send your prayer requests right on the website. I want you to know that we care about you and more importantly God cares about you, and we will pray for your needs by name. As we close our program I wanna remind you, now more than ever, we need to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. God's plan for Jerusalem, Arabs, and Jews alike of knowing you. May they prosper who love thee, so please keep praying this week. That's to Ezra for joining me today and thank you jack. And until next time, this is Jonathan Bernis saying shalom and God bless you.