Jonathan Bernis - Is Israel The Bully?
Jonathan Bernis: Shalom and welcome to Jewish Voice. Thank you for joining me today. I'm Jonathan Bernis, and I'm joined once again by my co-host, Ezra Benjamin. Today, we're gonna focus on Israel and the current crisis that has grabbed world attention. I know that many of you care about Israel, and some of you have been watching the news, headline after headline points a finger at Israel claiming that they're the bully, that they're the aggressor. It can be really hard to sort out. How can you stand with Israel if they're massacring tens and thousands of Palestinians without provocation like the media is reporting? What's really happening? What's the truth? Is Israel the bully in this war? Today, we've brought in rabbi Jack Zimmerman, he is our staff evangelist here at Jewish Voice to help us to cut through all the confusion and separate fact from fiction. Jack, it's great to have you with us on the program, buddy.
Jack Zimmerman: Thank you, Jonathan.
Jonathan Bernis: We don't get to see each other much 'cause you're out traveling, talking in churches all over the country.
Jack Zimmerman: I know. But you know what? It's great to see you, and you look terrific.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, you too, you too.
Jack Zimmerman: Thank you.
Jonathan Bernis: And you too Ezra.
Ezra Benjamin: Oh, thank you.
Jonathan Bernis: The kid.
Ezra Benjamin: We all look great.
Jonathan Bernis: So Jack, let's dive into this. You travels the world helping churches and congregations to know the truth about important issues. But today, I want to talk about the crisis in the Middle East. So, Hamas is responsible for the October 7th attack. What are Hamas and the groups saying to justify their actions, and is it true?
Jack Zimmerman: Sure, great question. What they've been saying not only since October the 6th or 7th 2023, is what these groups and related groups have been saying since Israel became a state in 1948 and even prior to that. We know the saying, "Tell a lie often enough and obviously people will start to believe that it's true". But repetition does not equal truth and there is a lot of confusion out there because you hear one thing on the media, but then there is something else called reality. And really, that's why I'm so blessed to have the opportunity to cut through what we are hearing and look not only, of course, at what the Bible says about it as believers, but what does history say about it? What does reality say about it? Can we look at these accusations brought about by whether it's Palestinian, Islamic, jihad, the Houthis, Hamas, Hezbollah, and say, "Wait a minute, time out. Reality says exactly the opposite. And why are so many people accepting it as if it is gospel"? And so, I'm excited to be able to talk about that today.
Jonathan Bernis: So, let's start in the beginning of the modern state of Israel. Israel declares statehood 1948, and according to most people's understanding of history, Israel kicked the Palestinians out.
Jack Zimmerman: That's the false claim that we're hearing.
Jonathan Bernis: Right.
Jack Zimmerman: And by the way, I'm glad that you started in 1948, because I think part of the, call it a dilemma, a challenge is that the audience out there who's listening to these false claims think that this entire event began on October 6th, October 7th of 2023. And it goes back a lot farther than that. Not only on may 1948, but even centuries before. So, I think it's important, right off the bat, to establish a premise in that if we're going to look and understand this conflict in Israel, we gotta go way, way back to Genesis 3. But may 14, 1948 is certainly a good place to start.
Jonathan Bernis: We'll try to get there. Let's start there and we'll work our way back a little bit.
Jack Zimmerman: Sounds like a plan. So, the first false claim that we've been hearing often is that when Israel became a nation in 1948, it kicked the Palestinians out. As the story goes, Palestinians...
Jonathan Bernis: From their land.
Jack Zimmerman: Right, from Palestinian land supposedly. So, as the story goes, and by the way, we'll be using the terms Palestinians, we'll be using the terms Arabs. For our purposes, let's use the term Arab as we're talking about 1948. So, the idea is here we are, 1948, and the lie is this. Well, Israel becomes a state, the Jewish people finally have their own home land so they say, "Wow, we've wanted this for so long, and now that we have it, anybody who's not Jewish, get out. So you Arabs, even though you've been living here in the land with us for years, and we've gotten along and everything is great, get out because we want this land to be solely and totally Jewish". And that's the narrative that we've been hearing and people are believing that, but they're not looking at the evidence because the fact of the matter is that when Israel became a state in 1948, what did she do? She did what virtually every country does when it is born, establishes a declaration of independence. And in Israel's declaration of independence in 1948, there are eight provisions in it. One of those provisions actually is specifically dedicated and addresses the Arabs who are living in Israel at the time. 'cause the question comes up, alright so we've got a Jewish population, we've got an Arab population, what do we do with them? Has Israel kicked them out? As the world says. Well, why don't we see or why don't we at least hear what the declaration of independence said back in 1948 because obviously, it's still in effect today. So, if we look at Israel's declaration of independence in 1948, essentially it says this in the provision, "We, the government of the state of Israel, we appeal to the Arab inhabitants of this country to," get out? No. "To participate with us in building up the state of Israel on the basis of," listen to this, you'll be secondary citizens, you'll be dhimmi, which is a muslim term for those who are not regarded as equal. No. "You will have full and equal citizenship, and due representation with Israel and all of its provisional and permanent institutions". So, right there in 1948 when Israel became a state, Israel made sure, they thought it was important enough to put in their declaration of independence to let the world know, "We want the Arabs to stay. You're equal among us". Why would they say that? Well, they say that because it's in scripture. We know that in Leviticus 19:34, God says, "Treat the foreigner as your native born". So, that's incorporated into Israel's declaration of independence.
Ezra Benjamin: The foreigner who dwells among you. Which in this case would be exactly what would happen with the Arabs living in the new state of Israel.
Jack Zimmerman: Right. Not the foreigner who wants to kill you, that's an entirely different situation. So, Israel said, "Equal rights, you're equal among us, let's live together".
Jonathan Bernis: So, let me also clarify something else, this is not an invading army of Jews, but Israel was established with the approval of the u.N.
Jack Zimmerman: Yes.
Jonathan Bernis: And so, they declared their statehood and declared that Arabs would have equal partnership in building this new state, but that's not what happened.
Jack Zimmerman: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: The Arabs left. Many of the Arabs left. Why?
Jack Zimmerman: They did. It's not what happened at all because initially you have this, this wonderful, harmonious nation, Jews and Arabs living together in peace, the false claim is the Jews kicked them out of Israel. Well no, obviously the Jews didn't kick them out of Israel because if you're gonna kick them out of Israel, why say totally the opposite in your declaration of independence? Were the Arabs though kicked out of Israel? Yes. But Israel didn't do it. Who did it? And here's the back story that folks don't know. When Israel became a state in 1948, the following day, five Arab nations and another two by proxy, declared war against her because they believed that that land belonged to the world of Islam. And so, you hear that cheer, that rallying cry, and it's not new. When you hear supposed pro-Palestinian protesters say, "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free," this is 70, 80 years old we've been hearing this. And so, at this particular point, here's what happened. Arab radio broadcasters got on the radio and broadcast a message in Arabic to these Arabs who were living in Israel at the time. And they basically said, "Look, tomorrow we are going to liberate Palestine". They didn't even refer to it as Israel, they referred to it as Palestine, which we'll get to. "But we can't do it alone. So, those of you Arabs who are living there, here's what we need you to do, tomorrow, we need you to leave your homes, run to the borders, and fight with us, and then after we win, you will go in back to your home, you'll also inherit the home of your Israeli neighbor, and we'll have what we believe land that was originally ours, Palestine".
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, give it a couple of examples. You actually have at least one example I know of the prime minister of Syria making this plea to the Arabs living in Israel proper 1948.
Jack Zimmerman: Did the Palestinians leave Israel? Well yeah. But not because Israel kicked them out, but because the Arab government said, "Get out". And the prime minister at the time, his name was Khalid Al-Azm, he was the prime minister of Syria, and he set the record straight. So, many of the false claims that we're hearing now, Jonathan, had been answered decades ago. Here's what he said, he said, "The Arab governments," not Israel, "The Arab governments told the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it and leave for the bordering Arab countries. We," again, not Israel. "We brought destruction," the Arab governments did, "Upon a million Arab refugees by calling on them and pleading with them to leave the land". So, they've admitted that they were the ones responsible, and yet where does the blame lie today? On Israel.
Jonathan Bernis: The prime minister of Syria?
Jack Zimmerman: Yes.
Jonathan Bernis: That claim the Jews kicked them out of the land in 1948 is a lie. The fact 1.7 million today living as Israelis, as Arab Israelis in the land, and those that left left at the plea of Arab nations around them.
Jonathan Bernis: Let's move to another claim. "The land belongs to the Palestinians and Israel stole it".
Jack Zimmerman: Here are the facts. The fact of the matter is when the Jewish people settled in this land, Palestinians did not even exist. Now, of course we can go through this biblically, Genesis 15:18, God makes a covenant with Abraham, "Abraham, I have given this land to your descendants from the great river of Egypt to the river Euphrates". That's not only Israel, that's about nine or ten other countries when you also connect the border circling it and closing it from numbers 34.
Ezra Benjamin: So, I'm thinking of the protest, you know. "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free". From the river to the sea is actually the land promised to the Jewish people.
Jonathan Bernis: You bet.
Ezra Benjamin: That term has been stolen if we're talking about theft.
Jonathan Bernis: And you made a comment that I want you to expound on. You said there were no Palestinians.
Jack Zimmerman: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: In 1948. There were no Palestinians. Unpack that because that goes against the world perception of Israel today and the Palestinian conflict. There were Palestinians, but you're saying "No, there were no Palestinians".
Jack Zimmerman: There were no Palestinians. And in fact, let's go back farther than 1948. Let's go back, say to the year 132, ad 132. Now, we know that this time, and prior to this time, Israel was under Roman control and authority. You read the Bible during the time of Yeshua, you read names like galo, obviously Pontius Pilate, so Roman authority. At this point in the year 132, there had been so many rebellions by the Israelites against the Roman government, basically saying, "We've had enough". And a lot of it had to do with higher and higher taxes that the Roman government kept on imposing. So, here's the scenario for you. Let's say the tax man comes to your door in the middle of March and says, "Okay, I'm here to collect the usual two denarii". And at this point, you and your neighbors have had it. You say, "You know what? We're tired of paying taxes to Rome, we're going to revolt against Rome". So, you organize a revolt, you revolt against Rome. And of course, you have nothing so Rome brings the soldiers, quells the revolt, and then the tax man comes to your house the following month and says, "I am here," and you say, "Okay, here's your two denarii". And the tax man says, "Hold on, wait, wait, wait, wait. There's a little bit of a problem". And the problem is that it was two denarii but you know, when you Jews did this revolt, I mean, we had to bring out the infantry, we had to bring out the horses, had to pay the soldiers, people had to get fed, animals had to get fed, that cost us money...
Jonathan Bernis: And you're paying for it.
Jack Zimmerman: You're paying for it. So, what was two denarii last month is now six denarii this month and here on in. "Six denarii? What? That's terrible. We're going to revolt". And of course you've got the proverbial cat chasing its tail to where it's finally 132 ad and the Jewish people think they have an answer because at this time, they are crying out, "Come Moshiach, come now. We want the Messiah to come". Why? To eliminate Rome once and for all? Well, yeah. Sure, you want to eliminate your enemy, but let's face it, you'll save a lot of money on taxes you don't have to pay anymore. We're looking at the traditional Jewish community that finds this man, charismatic man, who in Hebrew, his name is Shimon Bar Kokhba, or in English Simon Bar Kokhba, which is Simon the son of a star. And they get really excited because there is a Messianic prophecy in numbers 24:17 where Moses says, you know, "I see him, but not now. He's far off". A star will come out of Jacob. So, we know that it's referring to the Messiah, it's a reference to a star. Here's a guy whose name is "Son of a star," you're it, you're the Messiah. So, they send him into battle against Rome, and this time, our team loses.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, it's a disaster.
Jack Zimmerman: It is. And at this point, Rome basically says, they say, "You know what we're gonna do to you Jews? Obviously raising the taxes was not enough. We're gonna punish you in a much more deeper way. What we're going to do is we're gonna change the name of where you live. It's not going to be called 'Israel' anymore, we're going to give it a new name. We're going to give it the name 'Palestina'". Why? Because there were Philistines around? No, but because the term Palestina was not a reference to Palestinians, it was a reference to the arch enemies prior of Israel, the Philistines. What greater insult against the Jews than to name their land after the worst enemies they had had in history up to that point. That's where the term "Palestine" comes from today. It has nothing to do with the Palestinians.
Jonathan Bernis: It's a direct slam against the owners of the land, the occupiers, which was Rome...
Jack Zimmerman: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: Renamed it as punishment against the Jews.
Jack Zimmerman: Exactly. And we know that it had nothing to do with the Palestinians for at least two reasons. Number one, God says in his word that he made the Philistines extinct. So, newsflash, you can't have descendants from an extinct group of people. But also, the timing is off. We're talking about 132 ad. Here you have today someone who identifies as a Palestinians who's running around saying, "Allahu Akbar," proclaiming their allegiance to the world of Islam. 132 ad, Rome names this land Palestina, can't possibly be a reference to the Palestinians because Islam would not even come to be for another 500 years. The timing is off. It's like somebody saying in the days of Benjamin Franklin, "Oh my gosh, did you witness the assassination of president Kennedy"? Obviously we're talking two different time periods. There's no possible way.
Jonathan Bernis: Right. And the name stuck through the British occupation of Israel.
Jack Zimmerman: It did.
Jonathan Bernis: And interesting, I've seen passports post 1948. The Jews of Israel were called Palestinians.
Jack Zimmerman: They were. And the Arabs at the same time rejected, "Don't you dare call me a Palestinian". That refers to the Jews. And we know that because if you look at history, even before Israel became a state, you wanted to go out for a night, take your wife to hear some wonderful music compositions, maybe sit in the auditorium so that you could listen to the Palestine Philharmonic orchestra because that's what it was called. In fact, the day, and it's somewhat ironic that the day that Israel became a state, it was front page news on a newspaper that at that time was called "The Palestine post".
Ezra Benjamin: Right. In Jaffa, in the port of Jaffa, right? You can go today into these old art stores and museums and there's these steam ship posters "Visit Palestine". And they're posters to attract the European Jewish community pre World War II to come visit the Holy Land.
Jonathan Bernis: Here's the fact though, the truth. From a biblical perspective, there's no such thing as Palestine or Palestinians.
Jack Zimmerman: No.
Jonathan Bernis: It's fabricated. That's so important. I know this is hard for some of you. This is just mind blowing. But biblically, there is no such thing as Palestine or the Palestinians.
Jack Zimmerman: And you know what's amazing? You know who actually says that the loudest, that there's no Palestine and no Palestinians? The Palestinians do. It's just that people don't go back in history. It's 1977 and a gentleman by the name of Zahir Muhsein was a member of the P.L.O, the Palestine liberation organization. The reason that you've got today groups with names like, oh my gosh, I mean, you know, Fatah, the Houthis, Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, Hamas, and everybody else was basically the Palestine liberation gave rise to it. So, Zahir Muhsein, who was a high up committee member with the Palestine liberation organization, and identifies himself as a Palestinian, sits down for a newspaper interview with the dutch newspaper called Trouw, in English, it means the sentinel. The newspaper reporter was so savvy. He said, "Okay, Mr. Muhsein, I need to ask you something. You folks say that you're Palestinians, you are the original inhabitants of the land. You come from days of old". He said, "But if that's the case, how come most people never heard the term Palestinian until like 1966"? That's a great question. And to his credit, Zahir Muhsein gave an honest answer. And the reason I'm so excited to get this across is because let's face it, it would be easy for people watching this program who are confused, who are taking the pro-Palestinian side to say, "Well of course, this is a Jewish program, they're gonna give their side, they're gonna give Israel's side, so everything is gonna be slanted". I don't wanna do that. I'm gonna give you the opponent's side. Here's what Zahir Muhsein said, he said, "The Palestinian people does not exist". But here you have a Palestinian who admits to the world, "We made the whole thing up. We're not real. This whole thing is imaginary, it's a hoax, it's a lie, you've been used".
Ezra Benjamin: Not just any Palestinian, one of the heads of the movement.
Jack Zimmerman: Exactly.
Ezra Benjamin: Says we don't actually exist.
Jonathan Bernis: In effect, he's saying it's a marketing tool for us. We're using it as a means for our fight.
Jack Zimmerman: Zahir Muhsein, Palestinian, says the Palestinian people does not exist. He says, rest of it, "The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against Israel for Arab unity. Only for political and tactical reasons do we even bother speaking today about the existence of a Palestinian people. Arab national interests demand that we," I don't know, "Propose," or suggest, "The existence of a distinct Palestinian people". Why? So that we can have our own identity? No. To oppose Zionism. Let's say for the sake of saying, somebody says, "Okay, fine Jewish Voice, you got one guy. You found one guy who was a Palestinian that said, 'we made the whole thing up'. One guy does not bring about an ideology". Okay, so what if there's a lot more than one guy? Because there's a lot more than one guy. Let me bring up some other names. The year was 1937, the politician's name was Auni Bey Abdul Hadi, an Arab politician. Here's what he said, he said, "There's no such country as Palestine". So, this is almost a hundred years ago, and then he said, "Palestine is a term the Jews invented". This is how crazy this is. Here's another source. An Arab historian Phillip Hitti from 1947 said, "There is no such thing as Palestine". Third quote, this one is my favorite. The guy's name was Ahmed Shuqeiri. He was the first chairman of the Palestine liberation organization, the PLO. He said in 1956, "Palestine is nothing but southern Syria". And you know, when you hear that, you say, "Oh my gosh, would somebody please tell that to Hamas so that they'll know they've been attacking the wrong country for the past ten months".
Jonathan Bernis: Or you can say western Jordan too.
Jack Zimmerman: Exactly.
Ezra Benjamin: The founders and leaders made it very clear, "We're not for a land and we're not for a people. We're against a people in a land". Namely the Jews in the state of Israel. This is their whole reason for existence.
Jack Zimmerman: People don't realize that they're out there pleading a cause that doesn't exist.
Jonathan Bernis: I hope what we've discussed today has helped you. I wanna say, if you have never received Jesus as your Messiah and Savior, today is the day of your salvation, Ezra.
Ezra Benjamin: Amen. Pray along with us at home. Lord, we thank you that salvation belongs to you, and we thank you that today can be the day of salvation. Lord, I pray for those who don't know you, that they would encounter you today, that they would invite you into their hearts, that you would forgive them of their sins and make them, as your word promises, a new creation. Old things are gone, new things are here in Yeshua's name. And for those who do know you, Lord, we pray for a spirit of wisdom and Revelation that they would know the truth and that the truth would set them free, and along with that, Lord, we pray for provision and protection. And above all, as you're meeting their needs, large and small, shalom. A peace which surpasses understanding for each and every one, and for the family members and community members that they're praying for as well. We pray it all in Jesus' name, in Yeshua's name, amen.
Jonathan Bernis: Amen, amen. We so appreciate you, we love you. If you want more information about our ministry, you can log on to our website jewishvoice.tv. You'll find many helpful resources there and you can send your prayer requests to us right on the website. I want you to know that we care about you, and more importantly, God cares about you, and we will be praying for you by name. As we close our program, I wanna remind you now more than ever, Israel needs our prayers. Jew and Arab alike. Israeli and Palestinian need our prayers. The ultimate plan of God is their salvation. So Psalm 122:6, "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem, may they prosper who love thee". Thank you to Ezra and Jack for joining me today and until next time, this is Jonathan Bernis saying shalom and God bless you.