Jonathan Bernis - Why Won't the War End?
Jonathan Bernis: Shalom and welcome to Jewish Voice. Thank you for joining me today. I'm Jonathan Bernis, and I'm joined once again by my co-host, Ezra Benjamin. The ongoing situation in Israel and the Middle East continues to become more and more complex and divisive, and Israel seems to fall under increasing scrutiny from world leaders to lay down their weapons and agree to deals and compromises in the name of peace. But is Israel really to blame for the ongoing war, and are the solutions on the table even legitimate? Today, we're going to help you understand some confusing terms you may have heard in the headlines and uncover the hidden or not so hidden agendas of Israel's enemies, which make peace dangerous, if not impossible. Ezra, we're approaching the one year mark of October 7th, almost a year. We still have, as of today, according to the Israeli government, a hundred and nine hostages still being held.
Ezra Benjamin: Exactly.
Jonathan Bernis: Why can't we get to a place of peace here and get the hostages back? What's holding this up?
Ezra Benjamin: Right, and what's interesting, right? This week, Jonathan, America's acknowledging the anniversary of September 11th, right? We're over 20 years pass that now, it's the 23rd anniversary, in fact. And let's just, before we even dive in to juxtapose the two situations, let's just compare for a second, right? 9/11, the world changes forever, right? America's attacks by Islamic, Jihadist radicals who blow up planes and buildings, and who murder innocent, American lives in the name of Allah, right? Because in Islamic theology, America's the great satan. By the way, in Islamic theology, Israel's the little satan, which is also supposed to be destroyed, right? And immediately, America responds in unity and solidarity, "We're going after these people, and we're not going to rest until this group," not an ethnic group. An Islamic, Jihadist, terrorist cell, right? The Taliban and Al Qaeda, until they are destroyed.
Jonathan Bernis: The greatest point of unity in the bush government and worldwide solidarity.
Ezra Benjamin: Exactly. And so, for years, this military effort to eradicate these radicals was supported, it was much more difficult, costly. Not just financially, but in terms of human life than was expected. But there was an understanding, these people did this once, they're going to do it again, they've told us they're going to do it again if they have the opportunity, and we have to put this to an end.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, we're gonna eradicate them, yes.
Ezra Benjamin: Now, fast forward to October 7th, 2023, as you said, we're 11 months, you know, since then. Coming up on the one year anniversary. And I think many of us thought this will be over in a matter of weeks. And Israel, the IDF spokespeople said early on, they said, "No, no, this is gonna be months or so". And we said, "No, no. You just have to get a couple hundred hostages back, and you have to deal with Hamas, and this is gonna be over".
Jonathan Bernis: Seems so simple.
Ezra Benjamin: It seems so simple, not to minimize a horrific situation. And so, here we are 11 months later, and it seems like the world's forgotten, right? Increasing pressure from world leaders, from the United Nations, from the leadership of the e.U., from some key political leaders in the United States, Israel, you need to agree to a ceasefire.
Jonathan Bernis: You know, let me go even further and say October 7th is rarely even mentioned in connection anymore with the ongoing effort of Israel to eradicate Hamas.
Ezra Benjamin: Right, it's been forgotten.
Jonathan Bernis: Yes, and it's shocking.
Ezra Benjamin: You know, I'm thinking, Daniel Hagari, who is the IDF spokesperson, came on world wide radio and television the night of October 7th. My wife and I... my wife is Israeli, and we were still in shock, you know, as the situation's unfolding and we're hearing what happens. So, we're listening to this radio address, and he said this... He said, "In the weeks and months to come, the propaganda and the confusion will increase, and the message will become very confusing, but remember why this started, because Israel was attacked by a Jihadist, Islamic group called Hamas, and we have to eliminate them because they've pledged our destruction".
Jonathan Bernis: Yes.
Ezra Benjamin: He said, "People will forget, you need to remember it," and the world's forgot.
Jonathan Bernis: I have to tell you that it was so horrific.
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: Twelve hundred children, families butchered, terrible sex crimes. Just horrific. Really, the worst event that the Jewish people have experienced since the holocaust.
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: I was so surprised that really, after two weeks, it turned, Israel became the aggressor. It was really a surprise to me, it was scary. Not only that, but the wave of antisemitism, the increase of antisemitism in America, let alone Europe, skyrocketed. It just spiked.
Ezra Benjamin: Exactly.
Jonathan Bernis: Unbelievable.
Ezra Benjamin: It is unbelievable. And so now, in the headlines, I'm sure you're following along with us. And maybe it's confusing because we're hearing terms like "Ceasefire," we'll talk about that. We're hearing terms like, "End the war," right? This should be over, why can't we have peace? It's been enough killing on both sides already. We're hearing terms like "Two state solution" you're hearing it in political speeches right now as we approach the U.S. 2024 presidential elections, but what does it all mean?
Jonathan Bernis: And where's genocide?
Ezra Benjamin: Yeah, right.
Jonathan Bernis: Israel stopped the genocide.
Ezra Benjamin: And the challenge is we're not defining the terms we're using, and all the pressure, Jonathan, seems to be on Israel, right? Israel needs to agree to a ceasefire. Israel needs to stop the military action. You've destroyed enough of Hamas, why don't you just stop now? But there's some important fundamental truths and facts we have to understand, and you have to understand, because if you don't know these things, and you're probably not gonna hear them on the media, it's gonna become increasingly difficult to continue standing with Israel.
Jonathan Bernis: So, let's jump into it.
Ezra Benjamin: Sure.
Jonathan Bernis: What are the hindrances? There's some clear ones.
Ezra Benjamin: Right. Israel said on October 7th, Bibi Netanyahu, came on national television, and the world was watching, and he said this. "We are at war. We're not at war with the Arab peoples, we're not at war with the millions of Palestinian peoples, we are at war with Hamas". It's an Islamic, Jihadist, terrorist group who immediately took responsibility for the October 7th attacks, and he said, "We will eliminate them". Now, that sounds like pretty strong language. Why, Bibi, are you saying, "We're gonna eliminate every last Hamas operative"? And the reason, Jonathan, is that in the charter documents of Hamas, they're reason for existence, they quote the Quran and they actually say, "We exist for the destruction of the Zionist state," that's the modern state of Israel, "And of all Jews in the region, and we won't stop until," and it says, as the Quran says, "Even the rocks cry out, 'there's a Jew hiding behind me. Come, oh muslim, and kill him'". Hamas is committed to the destruction of the Jewish people. That's why Israel has to destroy them.
Jonathan Bernis: So Ezra, I wanna be clear on this.
Ezra Benjamin: Yeah.
Jonathan Bernis: Hamas supposed to exist for the furtherment, the betterment of the Palestinian people. They were voted into power for that specific purpose.
Ezra Benjamin: Yeah.
Jonathan Bernis: I mean, that was certainly my understanding that they were going to elevate the life and the living conditions of the Palestinians. What you're saying is that is not their purpose, their mission for existing.
Ezra Benjamin: I'm not saying it, Hamas' chartered documents are saying it, and Hamas operatives who are leading this whole effort since October 7th have gone on their own media in Arabic and reaffirmed it. They are not a people movement, which maybe you're surprised to hear that, because somehow Hamas and the "Free Palestine" flags, or the raise up, you know, improve the betterment and the living conditions of the Palestinian people have become intertwined but in fact, they're not. Hamas isn't for people...
Jonathan Bernis: This is a huge issue.
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: That people need to understand. All of the protests on college campuses recently left wing Jews laying out on the 405...
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: In Los Angeles to stop traffic.
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: For the Palestinians to have a better life. But that's not what Hamas is trying to accomplish.
Ezra Benjamin: Exactly.
Jonathan Bernis: And this is why they use Palestinians, their own neighbors as shields.
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: And they're fine if they're killed.
Ezra Benjamin: And that's the thing. They are not a pro anything movement. They are an anti-Zionist, anti-Jewish movement. Their reason for existence is to wipe out the Jewish state. And so, to the issue of ceasefire, right? How does Israel say, "We're going to stop military actions against a group that says, 'our entire purpose is to destroy you'". It's a non-starter.
Jonathan Bernis: It is, it is. It also explains why they're firing missiles from schools, from hospitals...
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: Because they have no regard for human life.
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: How do you deal with a culture of death? Just elaborate on that. A culture of death here. It's furthering a cause, and they need people to die.
Ezra Benjamin: That's exactly right, and we need to understand this is a spiritual issue. And I know you may say, "I don't spiritualize it". What do I mean by that? It's a spiritual issue because Hamas is religiously motivated. According to an radicalized Islamic world view. Not all Muslims in the world agree with this, but Hamas is built around it that "Our job, our mission on earth is to conquer the world for allah," and a key part of that is wiping out the Jewish people whom allah has condemned. They can't stop, they're obligated to destroy Jews.
Jonathan Bernis: It's just shocking. I wonder how many university students protesting for the Palestinians understand the real intentions of Hamas. Well, we need to take a short break, but we want to show you how we are helping on the ground in Israel and how to can partner with us to help them. Watch now.
Jonathan Bernis: Welcome back. Before we continue, I just wanna say thank you. We appreciate so much, your continued support of this ministry as we continue to work with Jewish communities in Israel and around the world. So, thank you, thank you, thank you. Ezra, this is a very complex topic. Let's jump back into the outcries for ceasefire.
Ezra Benjamin: Right, right. And what is ceasefire? Really important to understand that ceasefire is not a truce. So, truce would be an end to the war, and we'll talk about that in a moment too. But a ceasefire is a temporary laying down of weapons to allow, so the media would say to allow Palestinians to take refuge and get the food and water they need to allow Israel to regroup military. But really, it's primarily Israel needs to agree to a ceasefire so that people living in Gaza or the Gazans can find some...
Jonathan Bernis: Refuge.
Ezra Benjamin: Some refuge, some respite, get the urgent medical care or what that they need. There's two problems with this, and we can address two issues here, I think. The first is that all a ceasefire means for a group like Hamas whose very existence is based on their need to destroy the Jewish people is get more weapons and missiles in. Hamas is not a pro-Gazan people movement, let's remember that, folks. They're an anti-Israel, anti-Jewish people movement. So, if they have four days, a week, whatever it is. We know Israel's negotiating, maybe it's even happening this week, right? But however many days Hamas has of military respite, they're gonna use it rearming, not helping their own people. And Jonathan, that answers maybe a second question our audience is asking, "Why are so many innocent Gazans dying"? And there are innocent people dying, it's tragic.
Jonathan Bernis: It is tragic, in any measure.
Ezra Benjamin: In the ongoing military operation, and the reason is because Hamas uses opportunities like a ceasefire not to evacuate, feed, and get medical care to their people, but to put women and children, literally on top of, meaning in schools and hospitals, in apartment buildings, on top of and all around Hamas operatives.
Jonathan Bernis: One example, there's hundreds of Israelis that are calling Palestinians in Gaza and warning them of an eminent attack, and telling them to get out of the building that they're in, that it actually is, there's gonna be a missile launched or a bomb dropped, and many of them do wanna get out, but they're often stopped by Hamas members that force them to stay in the building and to die. They're being told, "Well, you'll be a martyr".
Ezra Benjamin: Right, "You'll be a martyr and it's a culture of death"
Jonathan Bernis: It is.
Ezra Benjamin: A spokesperson for Hamas said since October 11th, they're , meaning Israel, the enemy, "The enemy," is a culture of life, ours and Hamas is a culture of death.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, I wanna stay on this. Another thing that Israel does, actually, is drop leaflets. Talk about that.
Ezra Benjamin: Sure. Hundreds of thousands at a time of leaflets. So, you see Israeli air force planes flying over Gaza, "Oh no, they're gonna drop a missile". Nope, they're dropping papers that say, in Arabic, so that the Gazans who speak Arabic can read them. They're not in Hebrew, they're in Arabic. "Please, we're going to do a military operation to destroy Hamas in this area, on this city block, at this time, please leave".
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, and in reality, Hamas is responsible for the death toll.
Ezra Benjamin: Right, but you're not gonna hear is on the news.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, you're not.
Ezra Benjamin: So, we've talked about ceasefire. Why can't Israel agree to a truce? Why can't Israel say, "It's enough already," right? And so many in the world, Jonathan, are saying, "We want peace. Make peace, not war". How could Israel ever agree to stop an operation against trying to eradicate a group that says, "With very opportunity, we're gonna continue to try to destroy you".
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah.
Ezra Benjamin: It's a nonstarter at this point, it's a nonstarter.
Jonathan Bernis: I just wanna be clear with everyone. What's happening in Gaza it is absolutely a tragedy...
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: It's horrible. And, we are praying, and I wanna urge you to pray for the Palestinians. Innocent men, women, and children, elderly people that are suffering because of a war that was started by Hamas. And the reality is that Israel has to finish this. They have to.
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: Prime minister Netanyahu made it very, very clear, "We are not going to stop until Hamas is eradicated". Israel has no choice.
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: It's about Israel's survival.
Ezra Benjamin: Right, and now, it's September, right? It's 11 months since October 7th, and maybe you're wondering why can't this end already? Because one of Netanyahu's key tenants of any truce, any ceasefire agreement is, "We are allowed to continue to eliminate, to kill the perpetrators of October 7th and the Hamas operatives". And of course Hamas isn't agreeing to that.
Jonathan Bernis: No member of Hamas will give up until they're either dead or accomplish their mission of destroying the Jewish state.
Ezra Benjamin: Right, and so, if we zoom out, Jonathan, just to cover another hot button issue in the media, you're hearing it in the U.S. Election campaign speeches on both sides, you're hearing it in the news, right? The two state solution. It's been around for decades, right? The magical two-state solution...
Jonathan Bernis: Is the answer to the problems.
Ezra Benjamin: Right, and all of this would go away so the narrative goes, "If Israel just agreed to a two -state solution". What does that mean? That there's a sovereign nation called Palestine, and then a sovereign nation called Israel. But let's explain just for a moment, just for a second why that does not work. Israel, at its narrowest spot, north of Tel Aviv is eight miles between the sea, and the hills that would become the separate, independent nation of Palestine. Palestinians are Marching in the streets saying, "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free". So, an independent Palestine is a death sentence for Jewish people in Israel.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, absolutely. The Palestinians have to, the leadership of the Palestinians because so many Palestinians want to be at peace with Israel in truth. But the leadership has to eradicate, their statement of mission, which is the destruction of the Jewish people. It's never been removed from the plo charter.
Ezra Benjamin: Exactly.
Jonathan Bernis: They've refused to, time and time again. And there has to be an agreement at last that Israel has the right to survive.
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: And that they can live in peace. The other problem is that in 2005, Israel tried that very thing. They gave over gaza, which was very well developed by Israel. There were a lot of agricultural income, there was beautiful buildings and hotels all given over to the Palestinians free of charge.
Ezra Benjamin: Absolutely.
Jonathan Bernis: Build on this. Build an economy, build a life for your people, and what did they do? They began to...
Ezra Benjamin: To tear it down.
Jonathan Bernis: To tear it down and to fire missiles against Israel.
Ezra Benjamin: Hamas doesn't exist to represent or lift up Arabian Palestinian people, they exist to destroy the Jewish state.
Jonathan Bernis: Ezra, we all want peace. Israel wants peace, many of the Palestinian people want peace.
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: Is peace possible?
Ezra Benjamin: Yeah, I think, you know, given the current realities that Israel's supposed to negotiate with a group who wants its destruction, I'm hearing more and more Israeli leaders say, "You can't negotiate with evil". And you know, "Oh, you used evil, that's a strong word, Ezra". We mean it. This is evil.
Jonathan Bernis: It is.
Ezra Benjamin: This is an ungodly, religiously motivated agenda that says, "We will obliterate the Jewish people, and eventually everyone who doesn't follow Allah from the face of the earth". It's evil and there's no negotiating with it. And so, unfortunately as the situation in Israel and the Middle East drags on and becomes more complex as we head into the fall here and election season in the u.S., under the current circumstances, Jonathan, it seems like peace might be impossible. It seems like, you know? As we said. Because Hamas exist to destroy Israel.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah, what I'm afraid about is a counterfeit peace, which has happened on several occasions. Talk about a counterfeit peace. But then there's a true and lasting peace.
Ezra Benjamin: Right, exactly. So, there's the impossible peace under current circumstances. Counterfeit peace, something that appears to be a great solution that ends up not being, and I think we see this in the scriptures actually. There's a time in the future when there will be one who's referred to as a man of peace, right? Some figure, this is really gonna happen on earth, who somehow will broker this great agreement that maybe allows Jews and Muslims to live and exist and worship side by side in Israel and it's...
Jonathan Bernis: For a season.
Ezra Benjamin: And it's all gonna word great until the man of peace is revealed as a man of lawlessness. So, we all want peace, but if we see some perfect deal, I'd at least look at it again and ask what's going on.
Jonathan Bernis: It is a counterfeit peace.
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: And that's been attempted on numerous times.
Ezra Benjamin: Exactly.
Jonathan Bernis: There's a true and lasting peace though...
Ezra Benjamin: There is.
Jonathan Bernis: It's promised.
Ezra Benjamin: This is our hope. I hope it's your hope watching today, and it should fuel your prayers for Israel, for the Jewish people, for Arabian Palestinian people living there. Because this is our hope that there is a peace found in, in Hebrew we say the sar shalom, and that means the Prince of Peace. The Prince of Peace will come back to the city of peace. Did you know Jerusalem means city of peace? The most hotly contested piece of real estate on the face of the earth is, in God's plan, supposed to be the city of peace. But it won't happen until the Prince of Peace, Jesus, Yeshua, is ruling and reigning, which he will.
Jonathan Bernis: You know, Ezra, it's interesting. The word "Peace" in Hebrew is shalom. It comes from the Hebrew shalom. If you look deeply at shalom, it's not just peace. What it really means is completion.
Ezra Benjamin: Right.
Jonathan Bernis: To bring to completion.
Ezra Benjamin: Yeah.
Jonathan Bernis: To bring to fulfillment. When God says, "I want to bring you peace," it's saying, "I want to complete you, because I've created you to be formed into the image of my son". And that's God's plan for the Middle East. A true and lasting peace that comes with God's completion through the Yeshua, through the Messiah, that brings Jew and Arab alike into the saving knowledge of their Messiah, the Savior of the world, Jesus, Yeshua HaMashiach. I want you to hear about an opportunity to partner with Jewish Voice and share the gospel, the good news with Jewish communities in Israel and around the world. And by the way, that includes Arab communities as well in Israel. So, stay tuned because Ezra and I will be back in a moment to pray for you and your family, as well as offer you the gift of eternal life. Don't go away.
Jonathan Bernis: The theme of our program today is really about peace, and the Lord want you to help bring about peace, and to receive the peace of God that passes all understanding in your life. Ezra, there's a lot of needs out there, we're getting a lot of request, prayer request from people.
Ezra Benjamin: Especially in this season.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah. Especially financial needs. But also, terminal illnesses. It's a serious time. God hears and answers so, will you just lead us in a quick prayer?
Ezra Benjamin: I'd be honored to do that.
Jonathan Bernis: Yeah. Thank you.
Ezra Benjamin: Well, Lord we thank you that you indeed are the Prince of Peace, the Tsar Shalom. We thank you that you will come again to rule and to reign, and there will be peace on earth and there will be good will towards men because you bring it about. And so, Lord, we pray for those watching, tuning in today. Even if they stumbled upon this show by accident, Lord, may today be the day of salvation. Thank you that salvation belongs to you and that you would breakthrough, that you bring forgiveness of sins, and that you make that man or woman a new creation right now as they receive you and invite you into their heart in Yeshua's name. And Lord, for those who walk with you, for those who follow you and trust you, we pray that you would give a peace that the world and no man can give. A peace beyond their understanding. And that you would give that shalom, that peace in abundance, right now, in Yeshua's name, amen.
Jonathan Bernis: Amen, amen. Peace, peace, peace to you and to your household. If you'd like more information about our ministry, you can log on to jewishvoice.tv. "Jewishvoice", one word, ".Tv". You can find many helpful resources there, and you can send your prayer request to us right on the website. I want you to know that we care about you, but more importantly, God cares about you. And we'll be praying for your needs by name if you email us. As we close our program, I wanna remind you, as God ask of us each and every day, pray for the peace of Jerusalem, Psalm 122:6, "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem," and we're told, "May they prosper who love thee". Thank you to Ezra for joining me today, and until next time, this is Jonathan Bernis saying shalom and God bless you.