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Jack Graham - Why It Matters The Fate and Faith of Israel?

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    Dr. Jack Graham - Why It Matters The Fate and Faith of Israel?
TOPICS: Israel

Dr. Jack Graham: Welcome to a very special edition of PowerPoint, because today we are going to address the recent attacks on the nation and people of Israel and how we as believers and followers of Jesus can love the people of Israel in the middle of such extreme horror. And we're gonna dive into some of the history and why there's such animosity and hatred. And today, I am joined by two very wonderful friends. First is Rabbi Jason Sobel. He is the founder of Fusion Global, a ministry that seeks to bring people into the full inheritance of their faith by connecting themselves to the old and to the new. Rabbi Jason's voice is authentic. Being raised in a Jewish home and qualified by years of diligent academic work, he has received his rabbinic ordination from the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations. He received this in 2005. He has a BA, a Bachelor of Arts, in Jewish studies from the Moody Bible Institute and an MA in intellectual studies from Southeastern Seminary. He is a sought-after speaker and author, Rabbi, we welcome you, God bless you today.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Shalom, it's great to be here with you. Thank you so much.

Dr. Jack Graham: Shalom, indeed. And we are praying for the peace of Jerusalem, God's Shalom. Also with me today is Jeremiah Johnston. Dr. Johnston is a New Testament scholar. He is a pastor, preacher, author, teacher, nationally syndicated radio host. And apologist, Christian apologist. He ministers internationally as president of the Christian Thinkers Society. Let my people think. Jeremiah loves the local church, and he serves therefore as pastor of apologetics and cultural engagement at Prestonwood Baptist Church, and is dean of spiritual development of Prestonwood Christian Academy, our very wonderful school. Jeremiah has a passion to work with churches and pastors in equipping Christians to give intellectually informed reasons for what they believe. Not only what we believe, but why we believe it. He is a speaker, he's an author, he's a great friend. Welcome, Jeremiah.

Jeremiah Johnston: Great to be with you.

Dr. Jack Graham: Yeah, well we wanna get started with this conversation by getting a little more background on you, Rabbi Jason. And you have a direct connection family related to the Holocaust and that terrible horror of the past that kind of gets repeated from generation to generation. And even most recently I just heard that this is the most loss of life in Israel since the Holocaust, or among Jewish people, since the Holocaust, true? And so, tell us a little bit about context from your life and how this impacts you personally.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I grew up in a Jewish family in the Holy Land, New Jersey. You know, more Jews than in Jerusalem.

Dr. Jack Graham: Oh yeah.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: But had lost most of my family during the Holocaust. My grandmother was able to get out, and grandfather were able to get out. And they had to decide who they were gonna save first. They made it to London and they had to choose between their brother, my grandmother's brother and his wife or their parents. And they chose the brother and the new born baby. And my great grandparents were murdered in transit to a concentration camp. And so, this really hits home. And for Jewish people in general, because the viciousness of this attack against women, and children, elderly Holocaust survivors stirs up the trauma of what happened to us during the Holocaust and the systematic genocide of the Jewish people. And it feels like it's happening again. Not just in Israel, but as we see these demonstrations around the world on college campuses and major cities, it's very concerning.

Dr. Jack Graham: Yes, and antisemitism is rising in Europe. Other places in the world, certainly the Middle East. And in America, unfortunately. And we should be alert to this. And one of the things that I advised our congregation to do recently was to make sure you meet your Jewish neighbors and just walk across the street and talk to them. Express your concern, express your love and devotion to the Jewish people and just to be there present to say we care about what's happening to you and the people of Israel.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: And that means a lot.

Dr. Jack Graham: Yeah.

Jeremiah Johnston: And Rabbi, you know, every time history repeats itself I feel like we pay a higher price. And there are so many Christians right now who are so concerned. And I think the question we're all asking is, why is there such demonic hatred towards the Jewish people? Will you speak to that?

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think antisemitism first and foremost is a spiritual issue. And I think we have to understand the spiritual roots of antisemitism. There's a number of reasons, think about it for a moment. The foundation of Western civilization is Judeo-Christian, it's rooted in the 10 Commandments. It's rooted in the Old Testament. And there, there are promises to Israel that God would sustain them as a people. If you can destroy Israel you can say, God is a liar, the foundation is faulty, God doesn't exist, those promises aren't true. That's an aspect of it. Another aspect of it is, you know, the enemy hates everything that God loves. And God has a love and a covenant and a promise to the Jewish people. I grew up in New Jersey, there was a lot of mafia guys there. It was like, forget about it. Are you talking to me? Right? And you know, right, if you can't get to somebody what do you do? You get to their families. And so, you know, Satan can't get to God, so he gets to God's covenant people, the Jewish people. And I think there's another key point too, which is that, you know Jesus is very clear in the Gospel of Matthew. He is not gonna establish the kingdom until the Jewish people say, Baruch habah bshem Adonai. Blessed be he who comes in the name of the Lord. That's basically until the Jewish people welcome him as the Messiah. Well, if you can destroy the Jewish people you can either prevent the second coming or delay the second coming by having Jewish people lose faith, right, in God. Or not want to turn to Jesus as a result of persecution. So for all these reasons, you know, I think this is the historic spiritual root of antisemitism.

Jeremiah Johnston: Wow. Dr. Graham, I wanna ask you to speak to a verse from Luke's gospel chapter 17, verse 26 where Jesus says, "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the son of man". When you think about Jesus literally says, it's gonna be like it was in the days of Noah. And in the days of Noah, as you pointed out recently from the pulpit, in the days of Noah there was Hamas.

Dr. Jack Graham: Well first of all let me say, isn't it interesting, of all the people and events in the Bible that often are questioned by skeptics and unbelievers, Adam and Eve, the existence of Adam and Eve. Jonah in the belly of the fish and Noah and the great flood. Jesus affirmed all of these in the New Testament. He spoke of Adam and Eve being created by God and he spoke of Jonah as a sign of his resurrection. And yes, he spoke of Noah and the flood. Jesus believed in these miraculous, supernatural events that took place in the Old Testament. So, that's one thing. But relative to the flood, of course that was a great judgment upon the earth and the judgment became because God repented that he had even made man. And in the rebellion of mankind against God, God chose to bring judgment and that judgment was the flood. And a great part of that judgment was due to the violence of the people. And in Genesis chapter six and verse seven and verse 11 it speaks of this violence which can be, Hamas is the word, and it literally means not only violence, but evil violence. And so Hamas, the word is in the Hebrew text of the Old Testament. And therefore, it's just a reminder to us that the evil violence of this age, when we see this kind of, the beheading of babies, the execution of families, the burning alive of people, all the travesties and tragedies that have been reported and proven by this atrocious. These people, Hamas, are... These are mass murderers. They are demon possessed evil doers. There's no nuance to this as to who Hamas is, and what they are about. They are, you know, people say can't we just have peace? Can't we just get a truce? You can't find peace or you know, you can't develop a relationship with people who want to kill you and really deny your even right to exist. You can't negotiate with evil. And so, God didn't negotiate with evil.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: No.

Dr. Jack Graham: And so God didn't negotiate with evil. God didn't negotiate with evil. God destroyed everyone in that generation because of Hamas. Because of the evil doings and the evil violence of that age. That was the signature sign that Jesus gave us of the last days. And he said, yes, in the last days this evil Hamas, this evil violence. And we see it. We see it in the streets of America. We see it in homes and families, the abuse and the increase of violence. People without natural affection. People without genuine love. Paul said, in Timothy he said, in the last days perilous. Meaning dangerous times will come. So yes, Hamas is in the Bible because it points to the events of the last days. And when Noah believed and trusted in God, his grace, took him out. And I personally believe that before this great tribulation comes upon the earth in a final way, a final judgment upon the evil doers, that the church is going to be taken away into the presence of the Lord. We'll be saved like Noah was saved, with other believers. But it's a signal that we can see, we can hear it. It's loud and clear these days that we are living in times, dangerous times, that could indeed be a precursor to the return of Jesus and the rapture of the church.

Jeremiah Johnston: Dr. Graham, one thing, I've been watching you for years on this PowerPoint broadcast, so many people love that your ministry calls us to action in our faith. I want you to speak on why pastors have to stand for Israel for a moment. I wouldn’t believe it had I not seen it with my own eyes, Pastor, right here in Dallas. Palestinian demonstrations. And they were chanting this. I saw it with my own eyes here in Dallas, Texas. “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” In other words, Israel will cease to exist. And something that we’re so grateful for here at Prestonwood is how you have been so clear. You and Deb have taken thousands of people to the land of Israel for years. Why do pastors especially need to be speaking right now for their support biblically, theologically, physically supporting them, spiritually supporting them, the people of Israel?

Dr. Jack Graham: Because as Christians we love Israel and the people of Israel. And this is not a time for nuance. I mean, it seems like everyone wants to nuance the meaning of scripture and how we respond to cultural, whether sanctity of life, homosexuality, whatever you're talking about. Everybody wants to nuance it now and scale it down where it's more palatable to the world at large. But we as believers and followers of Jesus are not given that option in terms of obeying God. And we must be willing to stand, even if we're a minority. Even in the Christian community. What is most bothersome to me in this whole thing is I've been watching the response to the attacks, Rabbi. You know, you could expect those who oppose Israel publicly oppose Israel to stand and march and all the rest. But for Christian pastors, and ministers, and churches to be silent? They seem on social media to speak about everything else.

Jeremiah Johnston: That's right.

Dr. Jack Graham: They're virtue signaling about everything they care about and yet they are strangely and really, I believe in a very ungodly way, are strangely silent in support of the people of Israel in this. There is no excuse for this. And we are... We know people in the Christian community and the Christian faith are going to ultimately stand with Israel. But, it is vital that we do it now. Now is not the time for political posturing or accepting this as just a way of life. And many Christians are not informed. It's one reason we wanted to have this conversation today because so many Christians don't get it. They just, they don't know how important this is. And I mean, I'm not an alarmist, I'm really not. I'm an optimist. I'm filled with hope and faith. But we are very, very, very close to an international conflict. And we need to be on our knees praying and we need to stand with the people of Israel. And we all have friends. I’ve been to Israel many times, Deb as well. We all have friends who are Palestinians. And we’re not against, we love Palestinian people. But we oppose terrorism at its core. We oppose the Hamas and all the other terrorist groups and murderers, as God does.

Jeremiah Johnston: Rabbi, I want you to pick right up on that because there's a spirit of Amalek. I've heard you speak about this from Exodus 17. Explain who Amalek was in scripture and why God is still against Amalek in our modern days.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Yeah, it's interesting because when you look at the usage of the word Hamas in the scriptures, one of the places that it occurs is in the Book of Obadiah. And the Prophet Obadiah is pronouncing judgment over a group of people known as the Edomites. And this is what it says. Because of your violence towards Jacob, shame will cover you and you will be cut off forever. The interesting thing is that we have to understand God says, Esau is going to be judged because of Hamas. Well, one of the most well known descendants of Esau is a guy by the name of Amalek. And Amalek is the first person to attack the children of Israel when they left Egypt and God says he will forever be at war against Amalek. And one of the reasons why God hates Amalek is that Amalek attacked the women, the children, the weak, the stragglers, the helpless, the defenseless. He is the embodiment of the spirit of racism, oppression, and antisemitism in every generation. And that's why God says to the children of Israel, the first thing you're to do when you into the land, one of the first things, is to wipe out Amalek and they didn't. And because King Saul disobeyed that command, kingship was stripped from him, given to David and why was this so important? Because the most famous descendant of Amalek is Haman. The first person in the Bible that wanted to commit genocide against the Jewish people and this is why it's so important. Where was Haman from? Persia. Persia is modern day Iran. And who is behind Hamas, pulling the lever, making this happen? Both Hamas, Hezbollah, all these terrorist groups. It is Iran.

Dr. Jack Graham: No question.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Haman has risen again, the spirit of Haman, which is the spirit of Amalek, is in our world today. And this is what we're seeing going on before our very eyes.

Dr. Jack Graham: And when you think about Israel under attack throughout the generations, and you go back to the episode you just described when Haman... I've got a sermon on that. I think I called it The Horrible Hanging of Hateful Haman. I might have borrowed that from someone, who knows. But, you know, Haman ended up getting in it the neck and died on his own gallows that he erected for the Jewish people. But in that story, of course, is the story of Esther and if I perish, I perish. And who knows, if you come to the kingdom for such a time as this. So, as I was speaking earlier, this is a time for courage.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: That's right.

Dr. Jack Graham: And if you're only one, be that one. If you're a minority as Esther and Mordecai were, a minority in the Christian community, stand up, stand out. Be willing to be bold, to be courageous, to be brave in the midst of this. This is not a time for cowardice. This is not a time for compromise in the church. But when you think about it, you know, it's one of the, you're an apologist, Jeremiah. When you think about one of the evidences for the Bible and the Christian faith, the fact that God has chosen the people of Israel, they have persevered. I mean, all the ancient tribes of the Hittites and the Amorites, and the Jebusites, and all the ites that were there and yet, we don't meet any of these. And yet, we meet Jewish people everywhere in the earth. And the fact that Israel even exists today, according to the providence and plans and purposes of God. But the fact that Israel is being attacked in such a way, what other explanation? I mean, it's a small country. It's a minority people. It's not that they, you know, are very brilliant, very bright. We know all the stories of Jewish people, how they've impacted science and influenced the world. You know, so not to minimize, but just in the sheer smallness of the population and the land itself, why do all these people want to kill the Jews of all people? Do you have an answer for that, Rabbi?

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Yeah, yeah, I mean again, I think...

Dr. Jack Graham: It's God, right?

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Yeah, I mean it's, again, they hate God and so like, and as I was praying and meditating on this, you know, what came to mind was the enemy hates what God loves, anyone that God loves.

Dr. Jack Graham: That's so good.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: And he wants everything that God has.

Dr. Jack Graham: Mm-hm.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: And so that's so important. He wants everything God has because Hamas' justification, the original justification for this massacre into Israel you know, was that Jewish people were being allowed to pray on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. The holiest site for Jewish people. The place where Abraham offered Isaac. The place where the first and second temple stood. The place where Jesus went and worshiped. And so many things in his life happened in the courtyards or in the temple. They don't want Jews on the Temple Mount praying, why? Because that's the place where God says he was gonna ever put his name. And so the enemy wants to usurp God and he wants his name to be in the place where God says, my name is gonna be there. And the place where God says, he is gonna be worshiped the enemy says, no, no, no. You're gonna worship me in this place.

Dr. Jack Graham: Mm-hm.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: And so he hates Israel because they represent God's promises, they represent his faithfulness, and he wants to take everything for that reason.

Dr. Jack Graham: Well, and let's just be forthright in what we believe. We are dealing with a religion that spawns this kind of behavior. And we're not saying that every Muslim is a terrorist, of course. But all these terrorists are Muslims. They're radicals, radicalized, whatever you want to call them, this group, in terms of their religion. But something that is born of it, it's a false religion. I'm just gonna say it like it is.

Jeremiah Johnston: Right.

Dr. Jack Graham: So this is what you get when you have a false religion. And Islam is a false religion.

Jeremiah Johnston: That's right.

Dr. Jack Graham: And so now, you know, they have the Temple Mount, you know the place you described as designated for the worship of God. So you have idolatry on the Mount. And again, I've been there many times as well. I prayed at the Western Wall. I've been on the Temple Mount and I'm telling you, when you walk on the Temple Mount and you sense an evil presence there at the mosque, at the Dome. And it is palpable. And the anger that exists there, you can feel it. And all because Jewish people want to pray and reclaim what is rightfully theirs. So, I mean, that's going a long way to say, you know, we have to accept the fact that there's true religion and false religion. Our faith is the faith of our fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Joseph, and Daniel, and Jesus. The God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Which is true religion.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Well, think about this connection, right? Hamas occurs first time in connection to the flood. As you mentioned, Genesis chapter six. Hamas, the group that perpetrated this evil they called their operation the Al-Aqsa Flood. They actually used the flood. Right, so they're actually connecting their operation with flood and Hamas, connected back.

Dr. Jack Graham: That seems like God's joke to me. I mean, it's like only God could cause them to be so foolish.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Right? But then on top of that, when you look at what the word Hamas means, yes it means violence, but it means violence against the innocent. Which we clearly saw. It's connected to sexual immorality. It's connected to idolatry. It's also connected to kidnapping women and taking them hostage and abusing them. Which is exactly what happened. It's used of a surprise attack, okay, where we see in the Bible Hamas is describing Simeon and Levi's attack against the town of Shechem after they rape the daughter and it's called. So we see that, it's called Hamas against them. And then it's also used of lying in Deuteronomy. And so we see that Hamas is lying, they lie. They lied about this attack on the hospital, it wasn't Israel that bombed the hospital, that's been verified. It was they themselves that did it by accident. So, lying, idolatry, abduction, abuse by women, attack against the innocent. They are embodying everything biblically that's associated with this word Hamas.

Jeremiah Johnston: I want you to speak for a moment to Christians, because it's not that Jesus was a Jew. Our savior is Jewish. And this is why we stand with the modern state of Israel, with Israel. We believe God is not done with Israel. So can you speak to believers about how we can be better informed and just remind us, we serve a Jewish savior.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's so important to understand, you know, Jesus said salvation is of the Jews. And I think one of the things that we forget is one of the greatest sacrifices the Lord ever made was, yes, his death on the cross, but the incarnation was as great a sacrifice as his death on the cross. God came in human form. Forever now he's the only 200% person to ever exist. 100% God and 100% man.

Dr. Jack Graham: Ah, I like that! I've never said it that way. That's a good way to say it.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: And he suffered shame and rejection and everything we could have imagined. But only, you know, more so. When he comes in the incarnation, he inextricably ties his fate to the fate of humanity. But more specifically, he comes as the son of David, the son of Abraham. That means he inextricably ties his fate to the destiny of Israel. He is the king of the Jews. He still has a human nature, he still has his humanity. So it's not that Jesus was Jewish, he still is Jewish. He is the king of the Jews. He's coming back to Jerusalem to rule and reign. So, we can't love Jesus and not love the people who Jesus descends from and is connected to.

Dr. Jack Graham: Yes. And we, it is. And we, you know, we love Jesus and the Jewish people that gave us our Messiah. You know, I tell Jewish friends, I say it publicly, I say it privately. Look, we as followers of Jesus, we're not asking you. When we talk to them about faith and trusting in Yeshua, the Messiah. We're not asking you to convert to our Gentile faith and religion. We have converted. We have been grafted in. If you want to get theological with Paul, but we have been received and we are part of the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ, which is, you know, Jewish people gave us the Bible we have now. I mean, I'm writing a book right now called The Jesus Book, and it's all about the authority and accuracy of the Bible and the application of the Bible in our lives. But, you know, in it I say, look, you know, thank God for the inspiration, and the inerrancy and fallibility. But this primarily came through Jewish writers and Jewish people, both Old Testament and New Testament. So we we're eternally grateful as Gentile believers and followers of Jesus for the Jewish people.

Jeremiah Johnston: That's right. And Pastor, I want you to speak to the Abrahamic Covenant and make sure our audience understands that I have two artifacts here with us. We have a scroll that reflects a 1000-year-old tribe hand. This was actually smuggled out of Iraq in tires, in rubber tires when Saddam was persecuting the Jews. We have another artifact of Jewish persecution, and this is a bronze coin from the second century. Pastor, you were talking about the idolatry on the Temple Mount. Hadrian, in order to exterminate the Jews, renamed Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, renamed the city. And this coin was stamped in the honor of this renaming of Jerusalem. But the Scripture says something interesting, doesn't it, about the Abrahamic Covenant, and I want you to explain that because there are some Christians, I think, watching that aren't familiar with the pastor. And why would you take it seriously?

Dr. Jack Graham: And I would probably should defer to the Rabbi on this. But I mean, from my perspective Genesis 12, God called out Abraham out of the Ur of the Chaldeans. He was he was a pagan, worshiping pagan deities. And probably the moon God and all the rest, so he was an idolatry. And God spoke to him one starry night and said, I'm choosing you to be the father of many nations. And as the stars are in the sky, innumerable, this is will be your heritage, your history going forward. And that is when God said, I'm going to bless you, Abraham, and your kin. And ultimately the line came through Isaac and Jacob and Joseph. But it’s clear that God chose his people, Israel. And what is the great passage in Deuteronomy? Rabbi, when it says that that God chose actually chose the Jewish people as his own, his own particular possession. And so, we as Christians believe in that covenant. And you say, well, I thought we lived in a new covenant. Yes, Jesus gave us a New Testament and a New covenant, but that does not cancel God's promises to his people, right? If God had somehow walked away from His promise to his children, God would be a liar and God cannot lie. And so, perpetually, eternally, Israel is the land that God has given His people. And one day when Jesus returns, we will all be united with Him who trusted him and receive him as Messiah.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: I think that's such a great point and I think to understand, I think this is one of the reasons why Matthew begins his gospel with the genealogy of Jesus. And one of the interesting things there is that there's four women in the genealogy of Jesus. And traditionally first century genealogies didn't contain women in them. Well, why are these women there and what do they have in common? They're all gentile women because it took Jew and Gentile to birth the line of the Messiah, and it's going to take Jew and Gentile together in Jesus to birth the Kingdom of God on Earth as it is in heaven. And I think that's why it is so important for us to understand that. I think that it took Ruth and Boaz to birth the line of David, and it's going to take us working together. And the enemy doesn't want to see Jews and Christians unite in Jesus because he knows that when we do, we become an unstoppable force for change and transformation in the world. And we fulfill John 17 Prayer. Jesus prayed that these and those would be one as he and the Father are one. Who are these? These were the Jewish disciples. Who were those? Those were the nations that we're going to believe as a result of the Great Commission. Then Jesus goes on to say, He prays that we would be one, as He would be with one with the Father. Then, you will be perfected in unity and the world will know the Father sent me. The world will not be W-O-N until we are O-N-E in Jesus. Until we are one, Jew and Gentile, and Jesus, the world will not be won for the Lord.

Dr. Jack Graham: Love that. I love that. And of course we as followers of Jesus, we want our Jewish friends to know and love Him as well. And, you know, we care deeply. And the Apostle Paul, who was Jewish, of course, but he said in the book of Romans that I would in effect, he said I would be willing to die and go to hell if my Jewish brothers, kinsman, could go to heaven. And what a powerful statement. Now, thank God none of us have to die and go to hell for somebody else to go to heaven. Jesus did that. He paid the price. But Paul, in Paul's passion for the Jewish people, he cried out in this way. And I would just say we should have that same passion. Jesus did tell us to go into the world and evangelize, beginning at Jerusalem. That was primarily Jewish people. The early church was made up of Jewish followers of Jesus. And so then the conflict came as a result with the religious authorities and so on. And through the years, then, you know, the conflicts developed between Christians and Jews. And that's a whole other program. Another time and another discussion. But I do want to be clear, You know, we want everyone to know Jesus. We want everyone to follow Jesus. So maybe in a few words, how should we as Christians, what should our posture be towards Jewish friends in terms of sharing our faith?

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's why it's so important to understand and what we're talking about here today. I think one, there's that just saying, because Jewish people have been persecuted historically in the name of Jesus. For Jewish people to see Christians standing with Israel, praying, caring concerning that begins to establish the connection. But there's something more. You know, one of the things that we write about is how in many ways, you know, the story of Jesus is foretold old as symbolically as a type in the story of Joseph,

Dr. Jack Graham: Yes!

Rabbi Jason Sobel: right?

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Joseph was rejected by his brothers. Well Israel rejected Jesus. The brothers, they stripped him of his tunic just like Jesus was stripped. Sold, both were sold for silver. The brothers don't recognize them the first time they come down to Egypt, they only recognize in the second time. This is all Israel turning to Jesus and the second coming.

Dr. Jack Graham: So powerful a witness of the gospel.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: But at the same time, when the brothers come down, they're not recognized Joseph the first time. Why? Because he walks like an Egyptian. He talks like an Egyptian. He's unrecognizably Jewish. It wasn't till Jesus. It was until Joseph took off his Egyptian garment, spoke to them in Hebrew, Ani Yosef, that they recognized who he was. Unfortunately, historically, Jesus has been stripped of his Jewishness and has been made an Egyptian. And he's unrecognizably Jewish. The Jewish people don't recognize... like literally growing up. I thought Jesus was a nice Jewish boy who became a Roman Catholic. Because I didn't know any Jewish kids by the name of Jesus with mothers by the name of Mary.

Dr. Jack Graham: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: So we need to put him back in his Jewish contacts and show how he is the fulfillment of everything that Moses and the prophets spoke of. And I think that is foundational.

Jeremiah Johnston: Something your ministry has done so well. We want to encourage you to look at the teachings of Rabbi Sobel on his website, but talk about the big idea of your new book, Signs and Secrets of the Messiah. What I find so refreshing about your ministry, your scholarship, the Voice, you're helping us see Jesus in full perspective of his Jewishness. And we have so much more interpretive precision in the Bible when we do that. We know how to follow Jesus better. And so talk to us about this exciting new book that I see on the top of the list right now. I know it's in a lot of people's hands. Tell us why God led you to this book right now.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for asking. I mean, I think one of the main reasons is because we live in a world where there is so much hopelessness, so much fear and so anxiety. And if you just look at the situation from a natural perspective, it is pretty hopeless. But when you understand we have a supernatural God...

Dr. Jack Graham: Aman!

Rabbi Jason Sobel: ...who is above all these situations and circumstances, this is what gives us hope. So we wrote this book because we want to give people hope. And we think the miracles are key in understanding who Jesus is because what he did for the people who were healed, He wants to do for us. You know, one of the miracles we talk about in the book is the healing of the man at the pool of Bethesda who could not walk for 38 years. If there's a detail in the Bible, it's there for a reason. Why 38 years? Deuteronomy tells us Israel wandered in the desert for 38 years because of their unbelief. In the desert 40, but 38 because of their unbelief. And so what Jesus is saying to this man is, look, I know you've been stuck for 38 years. It seems like nothing is going to change. But let me tell you, if you have faith in me, you don't have to remain stuck. You don't have to die like Israel did in the wilderness because of their disobedience. If you believe you don't have to die in the desert, but you can get up, take your bed, walk and enter into the promise. There is hope. And hope is the belief that your future is going to be better than the past. And I believe our future can be better than our past, in Yeshua, Jesus.

Dr. Jack Graham: Amen. I hope you heard that. The hope that we have in Yeshua, Jesus, is that our future is better than our past. And I like to say that our future is in God's hands, that He knows the future He holds us and our future in Christ in His hands. So our hope is not if so, maybe so, think so, iffy so. It is know so, because we have this hope in, the blessed hope, the return of Jesus Christ. And when all these things come to pass as we're seeing them today, they're frightening, it's discouraging, it's depressing. When you see it is hard to watch. I know if you've been watching any of this, it's just so hard to watch. It's hard to hear. It's just it is more than gut wrenching. It is. It's just it's so, so bitter. And yet, you know, we look up because we know that we have a hope and a future, as Israel does, as promised in Jeremiah 29:11, that we have a hope and a future with Christ. In the mean time, we want to bring a hope and a future to people, including Jewish people, and including people in Israel. So we are setting up a fund. It's an Israel crisis fund. And there is a number that we want to give you. If you'd like to be apart of this, our church is fully behind it here. That you can text "Crisis" the word "Crisis". C-R-I-S-I-S to this number, 59789. You can also visit my website, If you can find information as to how you can help. We have partners, wonderful friends who work with people in Israel. And delivering humanitarian, food, groceries, clothing, physical aid and help, but also spiritual hope. To bring hope to people. And so that's what we'll be about. We'll be connecting with our partners. These are all great people who have legitimate ministries in Israel and we're going to be partnering with these at PowerPoint in order to get the word of God's love and God's grace to people there. So, Rabbi, thank you so very much for joining us today. I hope we can do this again.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Absolutely, would love to.

Dr. Jack Graham: I mean, I've known of you and have respected you, but just being with you is even much, much better. And I can't wait, personally, to dig in to the latest book. And you can go to his website as well for his books. We're putting that on the screen. But this one is called, Mysteries of the Messiah: Unveiling Divine Connections Between Genesis and Today. I often say when Jesus walked on the road to Emmaus with those two disciples, he showed them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Rabbi Jason Sobel: That's right.

Dr. Jack Graham: With Moses and the prophets, so from the patriarchs to the prophets Jesus is there and walking with us. You can't unhitch the Old Testament from Jesus and man, the church, and the Bible. Because God has given us his word. So, thank you for joining us. Jeremiah, it's a pleasure to see you, always. And Rabbi, let's do it again soon.
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