Greg Ford - Wrestling With God
Today, what I’m gonna do is, I’m gonna tee up the wrestling match. We’re gonna start with God, okay? You know, he’s big. And then, us, okay, over here, and we’re quite a bit smaller. And to figure out what does this wrestling, what does it look like for us to come out onto the mat, to come out onto the carpet, and to wrestle with God? Okay? Here’s where we’re gonna start. We’re gonna start with what my buddy, Brian likes to call, «A sober self-assessment,» okay? So, we have to start with understanding both what God’s really like and then to understand ourself. So, let’s start with the sober self-assessment. I was in a meeting not too long ago with some of our leaders and somebody brought up the Dunning-Kruger effect. They brought it up. I never heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I was not familiar with it.
So, I was like, «What is it»? They tell me about it. And then I sorta became obsessed with it. I started watching all kinds of content on it and reading about it. If you’re not familiar with it, like I wasn’t, the Dunning-Kruger effect is basically this phenomenon studied by this one guy named Dunning and another whose name was… You guys are on it. You guys are on it today, alright? Dunning and Kruger found out that there’s actually a correlation between a person’s incompetence and their confidence. You would think the higher your competence would be the higher your confidence, but actually the more you know the more you realize you don’t know.
People that don’t know anything think they know everything, okay? In fact, this is how Dunning says it. He said, «In many cases, in many cases, incompetence does not leave people disoriented, perplexed, or cautious, instead the incompetent are often blessed with an inappropriate confidence, buoyed by something that feels to them like knowledge». This is why if you actually are competent in an area and you’ve heard somebody who knows nothing schooling you or lecturing you in something that they have no idea what they’re talking about, and you’re sitting there having to endure the moment.
Like, oh my goodness. This is why today at noon, games, football games are gonna kick off, and on their couches there will be people who couldn’t coach their way out of a paper bag, will sit there and hurl insults at coaches that make millions of dollars, ten of millions of dollars to do something, and there they go, «This idiot doesn’t have any idea». And they know nothing, okay? They’re highly incompetent and yet they take some of y’all, twenty-two men running around for three seconds and the quarterback throws an incomplete pass and they’re like, «This guy doesn’t know what he’s doing».
Okay, this is how this relationship works. In fact, here’s the chart, okay, of the Dunning-Kruger effect. So, you have confidence from low to high and then know nothing to expert, and you see what they have there is the peak of mount stupid, okay? The peak of mount stupid. It’s like this. If you’ve ever gone, you know, «I’m gonna start a business. It’s easy». You listen to one Gary Vee podcast and you’re like, «Let’s go, let’s go. What are we waiting on? We just gotta grind. We just gotta rise and grind. Team no sleep, dude. All I gotta do is just get a website, bro, and they’re flock to me now».
And so, you jump out and you’re at the peak of mount stupid. All of a sudden you go, «Kaboom». You come down here to valley of despair. You come down to the valley of despair then you go «Woah, this is way harder than I thought, way harder». And if in the valley of despair you will develop humility and you’ll wrestle through and be resilient, you’ll start to ascend up the slope of enlightenment and eventually the plateau of sustainability. But in that journey you start to realize the more I learn, the more I realize how much more I have to learn.
Friend, I would highly encourage you in your relationship with God, in your faith, in your reading of God’s word, to go ahead and understand the Dunning-Kruger effect to realize that through the process you’re gonna, like, get off of mount stupid, like go ahead and get, like, come up out of the valley, wrestle out of the valley of despair by actually wrestling your way to truth. In the Bible, in the New Testament, in 22 different verses in 8 different books, we see the word mystery, mystery. Paul talk about this. Paul and Jesus actually. Both refer to the mystery. Paul talks about the mystery of God through Jesus.
At one point Paul says, «The mystery of God revealed through Jesus in him are all treasures, hidden treasures». And we have to understand that even the nature of the Bible is, there is some mystery to it, and the more you read it, the more you’ll see that, which is why you gotta zoom in, zoom out, zoom in, zoom out, zoom in, zoom out and get a broader understanding. The Bible isn’t written as a manual step-by-step. It doesn’t start out verse one, «Hi, I’m God. Here’s my word. First, do this, second, do that, third, do that,» okay? There’s all kinds of stuff that’s embedded in there within the context, and the genres of the book, and the authors, and interpretation, and all this. It’s not this really clean manual like what you get when they on-board you at work. The whole thing is a Revelation of Jesus.
So if you’re not careful, again, you can be prone to missing the big picture of God. In the Old Testament, the Old Testament, very long book, if you zoom in, zoom out, zoom in, zoom out, you’ll see there were times that the nation broke their covenant with God, they messed up, they sinned, they developed idols, they did all of this stuff. And there are times that they were in this wrestling with God or this conflict with God, but you have to zoom out of the Old Testament and get way back and look at it and realize that simply the story of the Old Testament is God redeeming the nation over, and over, and over again. He just kept bringing 'em back. They’d mess up, then he’d bring 'em back.
And then the next generation, and he’d bring 'em back. And he just keeps bringing them back. He keeps bringing them back. And, «Let’s do a new covenant,» and eventually we get to the New Testament, but even within the New Testament there’s some mystery in there. Go ahead and embrace the mystery, embrace the mystery. Don’t go Dunning Kruger, mount stupid, you know it all, and you gotta power up and be ultra confident. Because if you do that you’re prone to missing some mystery. There’s mystery in there. Whenever you have mystery, you also have questions, questions. Questions are great. Questions are a sign of intelligence, by the way. Good questions. You have a smart little kid that’ll look up and go, «Why is the sky blue»?
Just the question, just the fact they asked that shows intelligence. «Well, how far is that cloud? What’s a cloud made of? What’s behind that cloud? What’s on the other side? What is outer», you know, they want, they’re inquisitive. It’s annoying when they’re like, why? You tell 'em to do something. «Why»? It’s a good question. So, they’re asking questions. Any environment that does not foster questions could use some growth. Any environment that stifles questions, like, «You can’t ask that question».
Have you ever been in an environment you ask a question and then the room got, the room got kind of thick, you know? You’re like, «Oh, I guess I can’t ask a question». Any environment that stifles down questions, mutes down questions, something’s not right there. Is there any question you can’t come to God with? Okay? If things are a mystery you should be able to ask questions. By the way, Jesus was a great question asker. Jesus recorded in the gospels asking 307 questions. A hundred and eighty three times Jesus is asked the question, only 3 times does he answer the question directly. A hundred and eighty out of 183 he answers a question with a question.
So, questions are good which means if there’s mystery and I have genuine questions, like when I come against my cognitive dissonance, «I don’t understand this. I don’t get this. Is that really true»? You’ll have a little thing that will creep in and become part of your thinking which is the word «Doubt». So, what do I do with my doubt? Now, this is where we have to really look into God’s word and not just zoom into a verse and do this, but to really look at it in it’s totality. I wanna take you, again, let’s fly, let’s get on a magic carpet ride here and fly through a few things in the book of Matthew, okay?
I’m gonna start in Matthew 7. Look what it says in Matthew 7:7,8, okay? So, let’s connect these dots. Matthew 7:7,8, «Ask, and it will be given to you. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, everyone who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened». In other words, let’s wrestle. Let’s wrestle with the mystery, the questions, and even the doubt. Just keep knocking it says. Okay. That’s Matthew 7, you got that? Matthew 14, seven chapters later. The disciples are now out in the middle of the night, they’re on the water, Peter steps out, and says, «Can I walk on water, Jesus»? And Jesus says, «Yes».
He walks out on the water. He’s literally defying the laws of physics. He’s walking on water. He sees waves. He sees wind. He’s like, «That’s a real wave, that’s real wind. It’s dark out here. I could die». And so, he begins to doubt. He begins to lose faith, and he starts to sink. And look what it says in verse 30, «When he saw the waves and the strong wind, he was terrified and began to sink. Look, 'save me, Lord'! He shouted. Jesus immediately reached out and grabbed him». Now, look next. «You have so little faith, ' Jesus said, 'why do you doubt me'»? Okay. «Why do you doubt me'? And they climbed back in the boat. The wind stopped, and the disciples worshipped him. 'you really are, ' he says, 'you really are the Son of God'»!
Now, he had doubt and part of Jesus helping him to work through his doubt was a wrestling with Jesus. He starts to sink. He cries out, «Help me,» which was some faith. And Jesus helps him up. And so, now, Peter at least had some progress like, «Oh, that was different». Like, he was empowered to walk on the water and he saved me in my situation. So you would think from there, Peter would have no doubt ever again, right? Nah, nah. Jesus is about to go to the cross and he goes, «Listen, I’m gonna die. Three days later, I’m coming back. It’s gonna be pretty gory but don’t worry, I’ll be back. And you guys are all gonna go into hiding. You’re all gonna deny me».
Peter’s like, Dunning Kruger. He’s like mount stupid. He goes, he’s like, «Oh no, no, no, no. Lord, I am so confident, okay? The rest of them will but not me, because I don’t doubt. I’m Peter». Peter is like Dunning-Kruger personified. I means he’s, you know, very confident that he’s got it right, and Jesus is like, «Peter, just wait». So, what happens? Peter gets out there, he gets afraid, he forgets everything, he starts to doubt, and in his doubt he denies Jesus. Well, Jesus does what he said he would do, he comes back, he comes back.
So, now you would think no more doubt 'cause not only did he save you when he was walking on water, but he died and rose again. And then, now all the disciples…by the way, every disciple went into hiding. All of them went into hiding. All of them doubted. Every last one of them doubted when Jesus was crucified. He comes back and then there’s doubting Thomas. Remember him? He’s like, «Well, I don’t care what y’all say, unless I put my finger in the nail scarred hands, I am not believing. I’m gonna go ahead and doubt. You can call me doubting Thomas all you want, I’m fine with that moniker. I’m», until I touch, okay, and Jesus shows up, he goes, «Go ahead,» and Thomas goes, «My Lord and my God». He’s now not doubting.
So, now, you would think all doubt is removed because these people have walked with Jesus. They’ve been out on the water with Jesus. They’ve seen Jesus resurrected. And now it gets to Matthew 28, Matthew 28, we’re about to get the great commission which is, you know, «Go into all the world, preach the gospel, baptize them in the name of the father, son, Holy Spirit». That’s Matthew 28:19,20 which we love to preach but what we don’t love to preach is Matthew 28:16,17. So right before the great commission.
Look at this. It says, «Then, the 11 disciples left for Galilee,» because Judas had hung himself, so there’s only 11 left. Eleven disciples left for Galilee. Look at this. «Go into the mountain where Jesus told them to go». Verse 17, «When they saw him, they worshipped him- but some of them doubted». How can you doubt? Jesus showed up on the water. Jesus died and rose again. You stuck your finger in his hand. And now, he’s getting ready to send you into the whole world, and it said, «Still some of them doubted».
Then, James writes the book of James, and he says in James 1: 5-8, «If anyone lacks wisdom, let him ask God, and he gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given to him». But look at this next part. «But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that’s driven and tossed by the wind. For that person must not suppose he will receive anything from the Lord: he is a double-minded man, unstable in all of his ways». Man, you read a verse like that and you’re like, «Whoo, I don’t wanna be double-minded. I don’t wanna be unstable in all my ways. I don’t wanna have any doubt». So the tendency is to go, «I don’t doubt».
What do you do with your doubt though? «Uhh, pretend like it’s not there. Am I allowed to doubt? Who’s this James guy anyway? Who’s this James guy think he is? Who is James»? Great question. James, according to Bible scholars, depending on who you read, James is one of three James. It’s either James, the son of Zebedee, who is one of Jesus' disciples, James, the son of Alphaeus, who is one of Jesus' disciples, or James, the half brother of Jesus. One of those three James that wrote this. «Don’t be double-minded, don’t doubt». All three of those James when Jesus was crucified went into hiding. So, it didn’t matter which James it was, they all hid, they all had doubt. Two of 'em, two of 'em were in Matthew 28 and were part of the worship team that doubted.
So, as James is telling us to not ever doubt or we’re double minded, understand what’s underneath that is that the way you get to place where your faith is strong enough that you stop doubting, is you’ve been willing to enter unto the mat with God and wrestle through your doubts every step of the way. Your Heavenly Father invites you out onto the mat. Come out onto the mat. James, James doubted. Peter doubted. God is a spirit. He’s given us his word. He’s a spirit and there’s mystery, and in the mystery there are questions, and in the questions there’s doubt.
And in all of that, if you’ll get out with your Heavenly Father, he will apply the right amount of pressure, give the right amount of grace. You’ll feel his presence. You’ll feel his power. You’ll work through, grow through things with him. And it’s in the wrestling, what’s God really like? He’s Abba, Dada, Abba Father who likes to wrestle with his children, to wrestle with you, wrestle through things, bring it to him. God’s big enough to handle your doubt. God’s big enough to handle your questions. God’s big enough to handle what you’re actually going through. What do you with your cognitive dissonance? This doesn’t make sense.
Bible says, «If ask anything in his name I’ll receive it,» but I ask something in his name and I didn’t receive it. It says, «Remove all doubt,» I removed all doubt. I did the very best I could to remove all doubt. If there’s more I can do to remove all doubt, I would have done it. I did everything I could do but it still didn’t, what do I do with that cognitive dissonance? Do I go Dunning-Kruger and pretend that I know everything and get more confident? Or do I go through what reality is, you go sometimes the valley of despair and go, «I don’t even know what I believe».
When you get to the place you don’t know what you believe and there’s a little bit of doubt in there, do you think that, do you think if I go out on the mat and tell God that, if I tell God that that he’s going to be offended by me? He’s gonna call me double-minded? He’s gonna shame me? Or do I think that God wants me to carry my doubt, my questions, and the mystery out onto the mat and go, «Let’s wrestle through this together». What’s God really like? Our word today is «Grace». That God has grace as you’re walking through the mystery of life to ask him any question and to bring your doubt to him and you wrestle through it and he’s not afraid of that. Don’t avoid him.
A few weeks ago, I preached on prayer and I shared a story, a vulnerable story for me, about my sons, basically. So, both of my boys are on the autism spectrum, and I talked about how my first son, when we found out he was on the spectrum, I prayed for him every night. I begged God to heal him, and he wasn’t healed. My second son, when we found out he was on the spectrum, without really think about it, I just didn’t really pray at all because at the time, and that message was basically about that, I kinda made a mistake to think the only purpose of prayer was to access God’s power. «God, you gonna heal him or what? If you’re not gonna heal him», don’t, you know, like, that’s all I prayed for was that.
And in that message I talked about some different dimensions, the prayer that I was missing out on. You can go watch that later. But what happened is I got into a place where I wasn’t really, for a while even wrestling with God about it. And God, I was interacting with God sort of like Shaylyn and I, my wife and I, interact with each other when we’re mad at one another. Like we’ve had a fight and we have to kinda move on and resolve but we’re still not happy. So, basically what we do is we try to take the high road but at the same time let the other person still know we’re upset. You know what I’m saying? So, it’s like, you know, you do like things like, you’re like, «Hey, I’m going to get the children some food. Would you like me to pick up anything for you while I’m out»?
Like, taking the high road but I’m not warm yet. You too classy for that? Nobody else? Okay. I was doing a little bit of that with God to be honest with you. It’s like, «Lord, I’ll be speaking to your children this week. Is there anything you’d like me to say? Anything you want me to communicate? I mean, I don’t need your help. I’ll do it all by myself but if you’d like to pitch in, we’ll be over here». Instead of entering onto the mat and wrestling through.
My friend Emily is here today, my friend Emily. What’s up Emily? So, Emily, okay, if Emily had the antidote for autism in full supply, no limit, no limit to her supply of the antidote, and my sons have autism, and I say, «Emily, can you give my son some supply? I’m not saying if you give to them you take away from anybody else 'cause you’re omnipotent. You have all of it. Could you help my sons»? And she’s like, «No». And I’m like, «Why»? And she’s like, «You’ll know some day. You’ll figure it out some day. It’ll all make sense». Like, «Why don’t you make sense right now, and go ahead and give 'em some of your supply»? And then, it feels like, «Okay, Emily, I’m begging you, I’m begging you as their father, I’m begging you to give them the supply. You’ve got plenty. You got an endless supply. I’m begging you, and I begged you every night,» and every night you went, «No, no. But it’ll all make sense some day».
I would not think you were good, so here I am with a question in this whole mystery, is God actually good? But then, I read James 1 and he’s like, «Don’t be double-minded. Tossed like the wind and waves. If you don’t have all this faith then you can’t expect anything from God», 'til I found about James. You were hiding when Jesus died. I’m gonna bring my doubt on the mat, wrestle with my father. I’mma bring my doubt. I think God can handle my doubt. I think God can handle any question. I don’t think God’s offended if I’m like, «God, I’m trying to reconcile between what I’ve walked through, what I’m feeling, and the fact that my friend Emily, if she had the supply, she would do it in a heartbeat. I have so many friends in this world, if they had, if they had the remedy, they would do it, and yet you, 'love your abba'»?
So, I go out on the mat. I’m so glad I did, so glad I did. In the months, weeks that I just even was willing to take the doubt or the question on the mat, I can tell you scriptures have opened up to me. I’ve seen things in God’s word I never seen before. There were dots that began to connect. There were some moments where I’m feeling his presence like I never have as I’m grappling through things like a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. And Greg, you’ve been hurting so bad because you think this is the beginning and end, and you’re only gonna see the boys in this state. And that you realize like, the way that the world is you don’t even remember what happened 15 years ago, 5 years ago. It was like, «What happened»? It’s like a vapor in the wind. We go, «Man, it feels like just yesterday my daughter turned 13. It feels like just yesterday I was going around in CVS».
It’s a fresh memory. Was that yesterday or was that, you know, 13 years ago? I mean, it just goes, it goes so fast. And you’re going, «Hey, this is a little part of life». And to then give me the hope that some day I’m gonna see my boys with no special need. I’m gonna see 'em in the perfection. I’m gonna see 'em in this, and the Lord just, and I’m out there with my father and I’m grappling, and wrestling, and he’s not pinning me down, and he’s not making me tap out. We’re in there connecting. We have a Heavenly Father who doesn’t mind wrestling through any question. He invites you out, invites you out on the mat. Don’t power up and go, «I have no doubt. I have no doubt».
That is foolish. That’s mount stupid. Get off of that. Take your cognitive dissonance to the Lord, «I don’t understand this. I don’t get this,» and wrestle with him and start to come up the slope of enlightenment. Come up to a better place and realize I have so much more to learn, and I have so… And see there are treasures hidden Christ. All of the treasures of God, it’s in there, so wrestle through it, wrestle through it. «Why do i», Jesus often would ask, «Why do you have such little faith»? We take it as shameful, oh and you’re going, «Why? Why is it that you have little faith? Why»? Good question. Wrestle through that. There’s some mystery in there. There’s some diamonds in there. Go ahead. Get out on the mat. Go ahead and get out on the mat. Come out, your father can handle it. He handle your doubt.
Quit powering up and acting like you don’t have any. Admit it, get it out. He’s cool with it. He’s gracious. His grace is big enough to handle your questions. There’s some places you can get to God that you won’t get if you just tip toe around him, if you bury things, if you learn to cope. God doesn’t want you to cope. He wants to get out and wrestle with you. Bring your doubt, bring the mystery, and bring the questions. I end with this. Maybe the most beautiful part, narrative in scripture, of what this looks like is another father in Mark 9 whose son had a special need. He was worried for his life.
He was worried for the life of his son and he goes to Jesus and he says in verse 22, «Have mercy on us and help us, if you can». Verse 23, Jesus says, «'what do you mean 'if I can'? Ask anything. Anything is possible if a person believes'. And the father,» look, the father said what I think I woulda said. In verse 24, he says, «I do believe, but help me overcome my unbelief. Help my unbelief». «I mean, I do, I do believe you but I have some doubt. I do believe you but I have some questions. I do believe you but there’s still some mystery I haven’t cracked the code on. I do believe, I do believe». And this man chose to wrestle with Jesus, to wrestle through the unbelief. «Lord, I believe but please help my unbelief».