David Reagan - Christians and Politics
Should Christians vote? And if so, what should be their guidelines for voting? Should Christians move beyond voting to full scale participation in politics even running for office? Should Christians get involved in social issues like abortion, same-sex marriage and gambling? Or, should Christians focus entirely on sharing the Gospel? For some insightful responses to these questions stay tuned for an interview with a Christian member of the Kentucky State Legislature.
David Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope, and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. My colleague, Nathan Jones and I have a very special guest with us today. He is Tim Moore who is a part-time member of our staff. Welcome to the program Tim. Glad to have you.
Tim Moore: Thank you very much, Dave. Glad to be here.
David Reagan: Tim is a Colonel in the US Air Force Reserve, and he is also a commercial pilot and a member of the House of Representatives of the Kentucky Legislature. And in his spare time he serves as an Assistant Evangelist for our ministry, going out on weekends to speak about Bible prophecy at churches and conferences. Tim, tell us briefly about your background.
Tim Moore: Well, Dave, I was born in Kentucky, lived in the Mid-West throughout my childhood years. Came back to Kentucky for High School and at age 17 I entered the Air Force. I became a pilot, as a matter of fact I was an instructor pilot for a number of years.
David Reagan: So, you didn’t go to college?
Tim Moore: Well, I did go to college I went to the Air Force Academy and spent four years there.
David Reagan: But that was later on?
Tim Moore: No, sir, at age 17.
David Reagan: Oh.
Tim Moore: I went straight into the Air Force Academy, four years of what is a military college. And then I went off to pilot training and became an instructor pilot. And spend 10 ½ years on active duty and decided to come home to Kentucky to continue serving in the Kentucky Air National Guard. And eventually hired on with a commercial carrier. And then continued serving as a pilot in the military, until this day I serve in the Reserves. And in 2006 as you indicated I ran for State Representative and have been serving in the Legislature since 2007.
David Reagan: So how many terms is that?
Tim Moore: Well I am in my fifth term right now. And that’s enough, but.
David Reagan: So, you don’t believe in term limits.
Tim Moore: I do actually believe in term limits. But I think that it should be universally applied.
David Reagan: There you go.
Tim Moore: So, yes, sir.
David Reagan: Well, you said you were in active duty. Where?
Tim Moore: I was active duty first at Columbus Air Force Base in Mississippi. And then at Grissom Air Force Base in Indiana. And then at Little Rock Air Force Base in Arkansas.
David Reagan: So you never got into combat or went overseas or anything like that?
Tim Moore: During my time on active duty I did go overseas with the military just flying a C-130, and my combat experience came later during my time with the Kentucky National Guard.
David Reagan: So, you were in logistics flying supplies over?
Tim Moore: Flying supplies all over the world; bullets, means, and personnel, yes, sir.
David Reagan: Ok. Well Nathan.
Nathan Jones: Fascinating. Good to have you on.
Tim Moore: Thank you very much, Nathan, glad to be here.
Nathan Jones: Now, I would like to know how did you get involved with Lamb & Lion Ministries? Where did you hear about us?
Tim Moore: Well, while I was up in Indiana, Dave came to speak at a little church. I say a little church out in the middle of the country. It was actually a large church and my wife and I thought, well this might be an interesting experience to go for the Sunday evening and we’ll kind of play it by ear whether or not we would go back every night. Well after hearing Dave on a Sunday evening we determined we would be back every opportunity that he was there during that conference. And it had such a tremendous exposure to the good message, and the good news that Christ is coming soon that we became lifelong supporters of Lamb & Lion, became Prophecy Partners.
David Reagan: In fact that was back in the early 80’s wasn’t it?
Tim Moore: That was actually in the early 90’s, no, sir.
David Reagan: Early 90’s?
Tim Moore: About when my daughter was born up in Indiana. Yes, sir.
David Reagan: Ok. Nathan you may not know this but one time when I was up there in Kentucky speaking and I went up there fairly frequently in those days. I went over to his parent’s house as I remember it in Nicholasville, Kentucky.
Tim Moore: Yes, sir.
David Reagan: And we had the whole clan there and we were eating lunch and having a great time. And suddenly he turned to me and said, “You know what you need to do? You need to start having conferences for your Prophecy Partners.” And I said, “Well, that is a great idea.” So, when I got back I discussed it with the staff. And as a result of his suggestion we started having Prophecy Conferences. And they were small. I mean they were held here at our headquarters and we could only seat about 50 people at that time.
Tim Moore: Yes, sir.
David Reagan: And so we held a whole series of them based on your suggestion.
Tim Moore: Well I have to give a shout out to my brother because he and I came up with the idea together. My brother Chris, who is also a Prophecy Partner and very committed to the message of the Lord coming soon. So, we’ve been very glad that that idea has sprouted into what today is a very large conference, through the years.
David Reagan: Yes, it has grown into where we have an 800-900 now.
Tim Moore: Yes, sir. The Lord has really blessed it.
David Reagan: Now, you have been going out for about a year?
Tim Moore: About a year and a half I’ve been going and speaking at various churches around the country and trying to get out the message that Christ is coming soon. And encourage people, motivate them not only to be looking for His soon return, but to be living expectantly.
David Reagan: And you’ve been doing another thing for us too, you have been taking groups to Israel.
Tim Moore: Yes, sir.
David Reagan: I think you like that, don’t you?
Tim Moore: I very much like it, yes, sir. I feel very at home in Israel. I live in the promise land east here in the United States, that being Kentucky. But, to take folks to the real Promise Land is a true joy.
David Reagan: Well, that reminds me of a pastor in Kentucky who wrote me one time and said, “When is the next time you are going to be in the Holy Land?” And I wrote him this long letter back, two pages telling you about all the information about our next trip to Israel. What the price of the trip was. How we would love to have him along. He called me a few days later and just laughing, you could hear him laughing all the way from Kentucky. He said, “David, when I asked you when’s the next time you’re going to be in the Holy Land I meant when was the next time you’re going to be in Kentucky.”
Tim Moore: In Kentucky, of course. Well, Lamb & Lion has had a tremendous ministry in Kentucky. Dave, you’ve come so many times that you have a number of folks who are plugged into this ministry and supportive and it has been a great blessing over the years.
David Reagan: Well, it sure has. I tell you I love Kentucky.
Tim Moore: Yes, sir
David Reagan: And not only because it is so beautiful but because we have so many really enthusiastic supporters there. People who are really living with an eternal perspective and looking for the Lord to come back at any moment.
Tim Moore: Praise the Lord! That is so true.
David Reagan: Amen.
Part 2
:Nathan Jones: Welcome back to our discussion with Tim Moore, our new Assistant Evangelist as we grill him about issues related to the involvement of Christians in politics.
David Reagan: Yes, we are going to grill him.
Nathan Jones: Grill him, yes, ahh.
David Reagan: He’s on the hot seat so we are going to really let him have it.
Nathan Jones: It’s what I dread.
David Reagan: Many Christians believe and I even known major Christian leaders who believe this, who believe that it is really improper for Christians to get involved in politics. Politics is a dirty business. Politics is for pagans. And the most that any Christian should ever do in terms of political involvement is vote. So, they would consider you I guess a pagan since you are a member of the Kentucky State Legislature.
Tim Moore: Well, sometimes you wonder about some of the goings-on in any legislative body, yes, sir, I understand that. But, no, I actually believe that Christians have a responsibility to be salt and light in every sphere of human endeavor. Whether it be the business community, academia, even the church, and obviously politics is another realm that has great influence on a number of folks and makes major decisions for our society. So, it is a critical area where Christians should be salt and light.
David Reagan: You mentioned salt and light that is right out of the words of Jesus.
Tim Moore: Yes, sir.
David Reagan: He said we are to be salt, and we are to be light. We are to stand for righteousness.
Tim Moore: Amen.
David Reagan: And Brother let me tell you if we don’t do it nobody is going to.
Tim Moore: Well sometimes I think Christians today are very frustrated in the direction our society, and our culture is going. But, if we are not willing to engage in the mechanisms of influencing that culture. I’ll use another example the media, sometimes we have media productions that are very paganistic but yet we need more Christians to be engaged in that endeavor so that we have positive light shining forth in that arena as well. No different than politics.
David Reagan: Well you know this last year we have a Bible conference each year and this last year one of our speakers was Tim Wildmon from American Family Association. He made a comment in that presentation that really stuck in my mind. He said, “I don’t understand Christians who say that we should obey the law, that Christians should obey the law, but we should leave the law making to pagans.”
Tim Moore: No, I absolutely reject that. As a matter of fact you know all you have to do is go back to our own founding documents. And people say well we should obey the law and obey the governing authorities. And Jesus Himself through Paul’s writing makes it very clear in Romans 13 that we should be in subject to governing authorities. But our own Constitution the first three words are “We the People.” So our founders established our government based on the authority given to them. And the government continues today based on the authority given to it by we the people. So, as part of this nation, and part of the citizenry Christians have a responsibility to influence because we have the perspective of truth.
David Reagan: I know one thing from my study of the Scriptures and I’ve written about this is that whenever a person gets involved in politics in the sense of becoming a member of a City Council, a State Legislature, a School Board, any kind of political position Satan moves them up on his hit list.
Tim Moore: Oh, I believe that.
David Reagan: And he goes after them because he is determined to control all governing bodies. And so he comes after them with bribes, with corruption, with all kinds of special temptations. And that is one of the reasons I believe we are told that we are to pray for those who are in positions of power.
Tim Moore: Amen. The same way that we should be praying for those who are in positions of responsibility in the spiritual realm, purely whether they are ministers of youth ministers, other folks who have great responsibility. We should be up lifting them in prayer because they also rise on Satan’s hit list, I’m convinced.
Nathan Jones: Then as Christians what should guide us into voting? Because every election season we get inundated with e-mails of people they don’t want to know how to vote, but they want to know whether they should vote or not. As if their God given right, or Constitutional right I should say to vote isn’t really there as a Christian.
David Reagan: But even more important to me are the ones who call in and say, “Well who should I vote for?” It is like they don’t have a clue?
Tim Moore: Well there is a responsibility that we as Christians have to be informed. And not only about the matters before us in an election timeframe but on going about what is happening in our culture and how we can impact it. So, we first and foremost should be informed about biblical truths, and then we should apply those not only in our lives but in every other sphere of influence where we have impact. So, I very much agree I think you had a guest here just a few days ago Mr. Rafael Cruz who said that there is guidance in Scripture on how we should look for who to vote for. And who should get our vote and what kind of things we should use to consider how to vote. And that is found in Exodus 19:21 where it says that Jethro, Moses’ father-in-law came and said, “You should appoint people over the folks to help you govern. And they should be men who will first of all fear God, second of all should know truth, and third of all should never pursue dishonest gain.” So the first key point when we are determining who to vote for is someone who fears God.
David Reagan: Yes.
Tim Moore: Someone who respect the ultimate authority not being the vote themselves, or even some kind of manmade law. But they know that they are eternally accountable to God almighty. And secondly, they should be absolutely committed to pursuing truth. You know Jesus Himself when He stood before Pilot and Pilot asked Him, “Who are you? And for what reason are you here.” And Jesus said, “I came into the world that I might testify to truth.” And obviously Pilot was facing and speaking with Him who represents truth, who is all truth. But Pilot scoffed and said, “What is truth?” And too many today don’t believe in the ultimate truth as revealed in Scripture. And so we need to make sure that as we consider who to vote for and what issues to support that we are pursuing God’s truth. I’ll give you an example from some of the things happening today. Anyone who doesn’t understand that the destruction of innocent unborn children is ungodly, unholy, unrighteous, and evil is not conversant with truth. God abhors the murder of innocent millions in our nation. Anybody who doesn’t understand that marriage was a covenant relationship created by God that we should defend and support in terms of a union between one man and one woman.
David Reagan: One of the foundations of society.
Tim Moore: Amen. If they do not understand that then they are not conversant with the truth as revealed in Scripture. So, many of our Prophecy Partners and viewers will be aware of something called the Manhattan Declaration; which was a three-prong conviction to where anyone who signed on as a Christian as a believer said we would uphold the dignity of human life, the sanctity of marriage as a relationship between one man and one woman, and the right of religious liberty in this nation. Those are three truths that come straight out of the pages of Scripture and can be a clear and easy guide for us as we determine who to vote for and how to interact.
Nathan Jones: And yet Christians tore the Manhattan Declaration apart as an ecumenical movement. Or when you have two candidates running and neither of them are Christians how do Christians vote? Because I think when elections like that happen Christians step back and say, “Neither of them are Christian I can’t vote for them.” And then usually the more greater of two evils ends up getting elected. How do they vote then?
Tim Moore: Ok, well, first of all I would hope that Christians would be motivated in a circumstance like that to say, “Alright we didn’t have a good choice in this particular election. Next time I am going to become engaged either to support someone who would bring forth the right kind of values, and would represent the right truth.” Or, if the Lord leads I hope that more Christians would be inspired to step into that realm to serve not because they have a desire again to pursue the dishonest gain that sometimes come with corruption. But because they are convicted that if there is no one else here am I, Lord send me if necessary to serves as you would see fit. And a number of folks that have stepped into this realm will say that exact thing. I was not inspired because I wanted to do this but I felt convicted that the Lord had called me to impact even in the political realm.
Nathan Jones: That’s great you don’t like the candidate, run yourself.
Tim Moore: Run next time. Yes, sir.
Nathan Jones: Yeah.
David Reagan: Or pray for God to provide one.
Tim Moore: Here, here.
David Reagan: You know I think this issue is so important.
Tim Moore: Very much.
David Reagan: Because I think it is one of the reasons our nation is in the condition that it is in today.
Tim Moore: Yes, sir.
David Reagan: People who have the kind of attitude and I’ve seen this everywhere. Well I am going to vote for this candidate because of his skin color. I’m going to vote for this candidate because of his skin color. I am going to vote for this candidate because I’m a union member and the union.
Tim Moore: Or because of a party affiliation.
Nathan Jones: Or gender now.
David Reagan: I am going to vote straight Democrat, or straight Republican. It just goes on and on and on. I know of a church here in the Dallas area where the pastor got up in this last Presidential election and he didn’t say to vote for this man or that. He said, “Vote according to God’s Word. How do they stand on abortion? How do they stand on gambling? How do they stand on same-sex marriage? How do they stand on Israel?”
Tim Moore: Here, here.
David Reagan: And as everybody was going out, this was a huge church one of the leaders of the church, one of the deacons stood in the hallway there and said in a loud voice, “Well I’ll tell you what. I don’t care what the pastor says I’m going to vote the way my union boss tells me to vote.”
Tim Moore: Oh, heaven forbid. No.
David Reagan: That’s the way, that is why we are in the condition that we’re in.
Tim Moore: Yes, sir. No, we should be guided by the Holy Spirit. And it is easy to say that but it is difficult to really hear the Holy Spirit unless you are grounded in the Word of God.
David Reagan: Yeah.
Tim Moore: And so, God has given clear direction. I just read from Exodus, or cited I paraphrased from Exodus what God said through Jethro, very wise council for the kind of people who would be able to lead and rule over the people of Israel. Well the same principles apply today. Folks, who are committed first all of all; to fearing God, to honoring the truth as revealed in Scripture, and then not pursuing dishonest gain. And those three qualifications alone would rule out a number of folks who seek public office in our land today.
David Reagan: What about Christians getting involved in social issues? Or moral issues like demonstrating in front of an abortion clinic, or doing something of that nature?
Tim Moore: Well if Christians aren’t involved who will be?
Nathan Jones: Yeah.
Tim Moore: And how will these issues ever be advocated in a truthful and godly manner? And so there is a right way to go about advocating, or as you say demonstrating. Obviously our first inclination should be to pray. Pray not only for the victims for instance of abortion but for even the perpetrators of that heinous crime and the murder of these innocent children.
David Reagan: Yes, and I would add to that to pray that the Lord would show me what I should do about that issue. For example take abortion the Lord may call you to stand out in front of an abortion clinic and demonstrate. He may call you to be a sidewalk counselor...
Tim Moore: Here, here. Yes.
David Reagan: ...for young women who are trying to decide. He might call you to write letters to the editor. He may call you to write letters to the state representatives or go visit them. He may motivate you to adopt children.
Tim Moore: Yes.
David Reagan: There are so many different ways. We are called in different ways.
Tim Moore: Well and the beautiful thing even on that issues when I first ran I had been very avidly pro-life all of my life. But I came to realize that in addition to advocating for the changing of laws and policies in this nation we also do need to recognize as I just mentioned that some who are involved in that industry, and have no doubt it is an industry that makes huge amounts of money.
Nathan Jones: Billions.
Tim Moore: Some of them are caught up in the lie that has been perpetrated by our culture. And so, we need to pray for them. And thirdly, there are a number of young folks both men and women who have chosen, very poorly, to have an abortion and regret it for the rest of their life. They are victims in another sense.
David Reagan: That’s right.
Tim Moore: And we need to share the very good news that Jesus Christ forgives, restores, and heals. And so I’m grateful that in Kentucky we have wonderful organizations like Silent No More that get the word out that there is healing and restoration possible through the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Nathan Jones: And all done in love.
Tim Moore: Yes, sir, in love always.
David Reagan: Don’t you sometimes just get to the point where you are so frustrated though trying to get things done through the political system?
Tim Moore: Well, yes, but again I serve not to a particular end in a political system, I serve the Lord. And so, the ultimate goal is not to achieve an end even though we fight very hard to do so. But to bring glory and honor to Christ. And so the result really we leave up to the Lord, but the advocacy and the hard work goes in because that is what we are called to do.
David Reagan: I know that you do get frustrated at times because I remember one time you called me and told me about a situation where you had a group of people there who were against abortion, and who had run on anti-abortion platforms. And a crucial vote was coming up and one of those guys voted the other way.
Tim Moore: It happens all the time.
David Reagan: And when you asked him why? And he said, “Well the Governor called him and said if he would vote with the Governor the Governor would give him an office with a window.”
Tim Moore: People sell out for things that you would be shocked at. Yes, that is very disappointing to have folks who would claim during an election cycle that they are pro-life, or pro-traditional Christian values, or anything else and get to the Capital or get into another avenue of endeavor and fail to live up to that. It happens in my capital all the time. Folks who claim that they are pro-life every campaign fail on that issue, time and time again. But, again we go back to the three qualifications perhaps they don’t have a healthy enough fear of God in what the eternal ramifications of the hypocrisy really is. So, I pray for them as well.
Nathan Jones: Well Tim.
David Reagan: I’m going to ask him something.
Nathan Jones: I’m sorry, go ahead.
David Reagan: What do you consider to be some of the most disturbing trends in America today?
Tim Moore: Well, I think many of us as Christians see the direction our society is moving, and we see that we are leaving our Christian heritage, and embracing time and again what I would call paganism. And that bothers us to the core, and it should. And yet, that’s not probably what disturbs me the most, because Scripture is very clear that as the end times draw near the world will turn away from godly principles. And it will abandon the things that have made us great even as a nation. And so, the world is going to become more and more ungodly approaching the time of Christ’s return. So, this is no surprise to us as we understand Bible prophecy. What is disappointing, and you said frustrating is that more and more Christians are either apathetic or unwilling to be engaged. You said already a lot say, ah, that is politics. I’ve heard people say, “Well you can’t expect any more out of politicians they all lie, so I don’t even consider it a foul in that regard.” We should never give in to the lie that there is a realm that we should accept anything but honesty and truthfulness. Nor should we remove ourselves from the arena. If we’re not willing to be salt and light how can we possibly be surprised when our culture, our laws, our national system of government moves in such a tremendously wrong direction. It is because Christians are not engaged, and we are called to be engaged. I very much agree with Abraham Kuyper, who was, and I say it wrong it is Kiper actually but he was a Prime Minister in Europe also a very committed Christian. And he said, “There is not one square inch in the whole domain of our human existence over which Christ who is sovereign over all, does not declare, ‘Mine!'” In other words we have to be...
David Reagan: That’s good.
Tim Moore: ...the salt and light. But also make sure that we represent the King of kings. You know many people think politics has no business in the Christian faith. And yet, over and over again in the Holy Word of God He sent prophets to who? To the kings. He interpreted dreams of kings that dealt with kingdoms and with the nature of international politics. And so the same God who cares enough about each of us to count the hairs on our head, also has in His sway the fate of nations. So, He very much cares national policies and where nations are headed because over and over again He reached out and sent prophets to correct them in the past. I believe He is still doing so today.
Part 3
:David Reagan: Welcome back to our conversation with Tim Moore, our new Assistant Evangelist. For those of you who may have tuned in late Tim is a Colonel in the US Air Force Reserve, he is a commercial pilot, and he is a member of the Kentucky Legislature. And he represents our ministry when he goes out on weekends to preach and teach about Bible prophecy to churches and conferences.
Nathan Jones: Tim you and I share the same passion for Bible prophecy.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Nathan Jones: Maybe you can explain to our folks here how we know we are living in the season of the Lord’s return?
Tim Moore: Well, I think the signs are multiplying all around us constantly. And one of the signs relative to the realm of politics is as we witness our own nation turning away from Israel. I’ll use that as the prime example.
Nathan Jones: Oh, that’s huge.
Tim Moore: And who would have dreamed just a few years ago that we would abandon Israel? But that is exactly what the current administration is doing. And it breaks out heart, and yet it is fulfillment of Bible prophecy because Scripture says in the end time all nations will turn against Israel. So, I think that whether you look at the signs in our own culture, the signs globally, or the signs of all the nations including ours turning against Israel it absolutely proves that we are living in the season of the Lord’s return.
David Reagan: Well you know I wrote a book a few years ago, not very long ago entitled, “Living on Borrowed Time.”
Tim Moore: Yes.
David Reagan: And it was really about the signs of the times. And I sent out a questionnaire to 22 different Bible prophecy experts including Nathan Jones. And I asked them to tell me: “What do you think is the most significant sign that we are living in the season of the Lord’s return?” I expected them all to say Israel. But, they identified that as the single most, single most important individual sign. But, they said overall the greatest sign could be summed up in one word, convergence. And our friend who has been on this program many times, Ron Rhodes really emphasizes that in his writing. Now, Nathan what do you mean by convergence?
Nathan Jones: All the different signs, increase in lawlessness, increase in natural disasters, the world going against Israel, so many different signs that they are all happening in greater frequency and intensity the closer we get to the Lord’s return. So, not just a few signs but all the signs coming together.
Tim Moore: Yes.
David Reagan: Yeah, well, in the past often people have said, “Well we are living in the season of the Lord’s return.” But you didn’t see all the signs, there were one or two, or three of four or something like that. But we see them all converging right now. And certainly the ones relating to Israel are the most important; they are back in the land, they are being regathered from all over the world, they are back in the City of Jerusalem.
Tim Moore: Yes.
David Reagan: And the whole world is coming against them just as Zechariah said. And you know I would preach that and people would say, “Well that certainly will never include the United States of America.”
Tim Moore: No, it does include the United States of America today, tragically. And that is the perception of folks in Israel, I can assure you having gone there just this last year. They are very glad for us to come, but they realized that our nation has begun to abandon them in the policies being hoisted by our current Administration. A lot of people regarding laws say, there ought to be a law. But until the Chief Lawgiver comes to restore true justice, yes, we do have to advocate but we have to have His law written on our hearts as believers.
David Reagan: Tim, thanks for being with us today. Folks, Tim is available to be with you. He can come to your church and speak, come to conferences and speak and you can contact him through our ministry. That is our program for today. I hope it has been a blessing to you and I hope you will be back with us next week the Lord willing. Until then this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb & Lion Ministries’ saying, “Look up, be watchful, for our redemption is drawing near.”