David Reagan - Meredith on Heavenly Rewards
The Bible says we are saved by grace thru faith, and not by works. But the Bible also emphasizes the importance of good works and even says we will be judged of our works and receive rewards for them. Now how are to reconcile this? Stay tuned for an in-depth discussion of Heavenly rewards.
David Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus our blessed hope and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. I am delighted to have as our special guest on today’s program my pastor, Glenn Meredith. He is the pastor of Brookhaven Church in McKinney, Texas and he has been the pastor of that church for over 30 years. Glenn, welcome to Christ in Prophecy.
Glenn Meredith: Thank you, Brother Dave.
David Reagan: Well, we are glad to have you.
Glenn Meredith: It is a joy to be here.
David Reagan: Well, thanks.
David Reagan: Folks, I am also glad to have my colleague Nathan Jones here to help me interview. Nathan.
Nathan Jones: Great to be here. Good to meet you Pastor Glenn.
Glenn Meredith: Nice to see you brother.
David Reagan: Folks, Pastor Meredith is a very gifted communicator who is able to present the depths of God’s Word in simple to understand language. Last fall he presented a sermon about heavenly rewards that deeply impressed and blessed me. And I immediately invited him to share some of this thoughts with you. So Glenn let’s get right into this thing right now. The Bible says that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works, and I mean it says that point blank. And yet the Bible is full of passages, I think of one in Titus for example that talk about how important good works are, and how we are going to be judged of them, and how we are going to rewarded of them. How do you reconcile that?
Glenn Meredith: Well, just like you were saying in Ephesians 2:8-9 it talks about very clearly without any mistake that we are saved by grace through faith, that not of ourselves it is a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast. And yet the very next verse says, “For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works which He has before ordained that we should walk in.” So, the Bible is very clear to say that there’s not any way in the world that we could ever work our way to heaven. We couldn’t in a million years do enough good works to ever merit salvation from God. It is completely and totally by His grace. He gives us the gift of eternal life through His Son Jesus Christ. And when through faith we receive Jesus unto our life however Jesus comes in in the person of the Holy Spirit and He gives us a brand new heart. He gives us a brand new nature, He transforms us.
And one of the things He does is He gives us a desire to do something for Him; a desire to do good works. And so we are saved by grace, but that same grace that saves us transforms us into people who want to work for Him. The amazing thing is that God has all these works then that He’s planned for us in advance for us to do. And then an amazing thing about God is He is so good, not only does He save us by grace, does He motivate us by grace, He empowers us by grace. Then an amazing thing is He says, “And I’ll reward you for all that I am doing through your life.” It is an amazing thing. But one of these days we’ll have great rewards in Heaven as we follow the Lord.
David Reagan: You know I found in my experience that most Christians have heard so much preaching about salvation by grace through faith that they are not even aware of the fact that one day we are going to stand before the Lord Jesus Christ and be judged of our works, not to determine our eternal destiny.
Glenn Meredith: Exactly.
David Reagan: But to determine degrees of reward. I think most people are not aware that there is a day that is coming that we are going to be judged– for example how did we use our gifts to advance the Kingdom of God?
Glenn Meredith: Right. I believe that is so true. I think that is one of the areas where I think the Devil has really just blinded the minds of believers.
David Reagan: Yeah.
Glenn Meredith: I think he’s just lied to Christians. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked to Christian people and I’ll maybe they do something and I say, “Boy, great is going to be your reward.” And they go into this, “Oh, no, no, no, I won’t be rewarded.” And it’s almost as though if they think, they think if they think about the reward they’re not going to get a reward. They almost think as though that somehow God doesn’t want them to be motivated by the reward. And yet just the opposite is true, over and over again the Bible tells us that God is going to reward us. In fact some of the last verses of the Bible, Jesus says, “Behold, I’m coming quickly and my reward is with me.”
David Reagan: Yes.
Glenn Meredith: And so, God wants us to be motivated by reward.
David Reagan: Well, that’s I like to often put it this way that there is good news and bad news about judgment, the good news is that we are never going to stand before the Lord Jesus Christ and be judged of our works to determine our eternal destiny. That is never going to happen.
Glenn Meredith: That’s right.
David Reagan: But, we are going to stand before Him and be judged of our works to determine our degrees of reward. And along that line the Bible even indicates that there may be some people who would receive no rewards whatsoever except eternal life.
Glenn Meredith: That’s right.
David Reagan: Isn’t that right?
Glenn Meredith: It’s exactly right. It’s kind of a scary thing.
David Reagan: Over in what 1 Corinthians?
Glenn Meredith: 1 Corinthians chapter 3 He talks about that we’ll be judged and as by fire. And that our works will be judged and those works that are deemed valuable to God illustrated by gold, silver, and precious stones will last. And it says those who have those kinds of rewards will be rewarded. And then it says, others who have works characterized or illustrated by wood, hay, and stubble things; that are worthless to God in God’s sight it says, “It will be burned up, but they themselves will be saved yet as by fire.”
David Reagan: Yeah.
Glenn Meredith: What a tragedy.
David Reagan: An image of a guy being saved with his tail feathers burning up.
Glenn Meredith: Exactly right. Exactly right, made it to the end but that’s it. And too many Christians I think almost have the attitude that well that’s all I care about. If I just make it to Heaven they think I’ll be fine.
Nathan Jones: Well a lot of them are fearing the Judgment of the Just because they think that there is some kind of punishment. A lot of people are under this impression that they are going to Heaven, there will be a giant movie screen.
Glenn Meredith: Absolutely.
Nathan Jones: And every sin of their life is projected up there. Well that would make Heaven pornographic. You can’t have that in Heaven, that’s sin. None of that, Jesus’ blood covered our sins we are forgiven.
Glenn Meredith: Absolutely.
Nathan Jones: When we go up there it’s just a judgment for the works we did, how we responded to Jesus working through our lives. And I find so many Christians don’t know that.
Glenn Meredith: You’re exactly right. I remember one time when I was a teenager an evangelist said that very thing. There’ll be a giant movie screen and everything you ever done will be put up there. Well I’m telling you I wasn’t looking forward to that.
Nathan Jones: Not at all, no.
Glenn Meredith: That made me not want to go, I thought how humiliating.
David Reagan: Ok, then we’ve talked here a lot about judgment and rewards, but let’s begin to focus in a moment here now on rewards and what’s that all about.
Part 2
David Reagan: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our interview with Pastor Glenn Meredith about good works and eternal rewards.
Nathan Jones: Pastor Glenn you brought up Ephesians 2:10 about Christians know they have a purpose in life, God created us to do good works. But a lot of Christians don’t know that there are rewards that come along with those works, the work of Jesus through us and how we respond to it. Let’s share then what are some of these rewards that people can expect in Heaven?
Glenn Meredith: Nathan, I think that is one of the most important subjects we could talk about today because I believe so many Christians are under this false impression that they are going to get to Heaven one day and that everybody is going to be the same. That really no matter how you lived in this world that we are going to get there and Heaven is going to be the same for everyone. And I think they have come to that conclusion based on really their faulty logic, certainly not on the Bible. It’s almost like a person reasons within themselves, “Well if I get to Heaven and someone’s got more rewards than me then I would be jealous.”
David Reagan: Yes.
Glenn Meredith: Since there’s not going to be jealously in Heaven then therefore we must all be the same. And yet the Bible is very clear that there are a number of different ways that God rewards His people.
Nathan Jones: So, like how?
Glenn Meredith: For example He talks about crowns. I know that there are at least five different crowns that are talked about in the Bible. Talked about in 1 Corinthians chapter 9 it talks about what we might call the Victor’s Crown. Paul talks about in a race all the runners run but only one wins the prize and he exhorts the believers, “Run to win the prize.” And he says, “They do it, these runners in the games run to get a crown that is temporary, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.”
Nathan Jones: We are talking about an actual, physical crown on our actual physical bodies in Heaven?
Glenn Meredith: I think so.
Nathan Jones: Ok.
Glenn Meredith: But, we’ll see. But I thinks it true.
Nathan Jones: We’ll all be walking around with it.
Glenn Meredith: I think that crown is sort of a distinction.
Nathan Jones: Yeah.
Glenn Meredith: I think we’ll get to Heaven, it’s my opinion. I think we’ll get to Heaven and we’ll be able to look over and say, “Well there is a person the Victor’s Crown, that person ran the race that was set before them. They ran faithfully. They laid aside the weights and the sin that so easily besets us.”
David Reagan: Exhibited self-control.
Glenn Meredith: Yeah, exhibited self-control. So the Victor’s Crown. You have in 1 Thessalonians 2 it talks about the Crown of Rejoicing which seems to be the soul winner’s crown; the crown that designates those who won people to faith in Jesus Christ. You’ve 2 Thessalonians 4, one this ministry certainly is very familiar with when he talks about the Crown of Righteousness. The Crown of Righteousness Paul says will be given to me and to all of those who love His appearing. So, surely the staff of this wonderful ministry.
David Reagan: Amen.
Nathan Jones: We will be wearing them.
Glenn Meredith: All your partner’s that help support this ministry. People who tune in week after week because they long for the return of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Bible says it.
Nathan Jones: So we’ll be wearing multiple crowns possibly?
Glenn Meredith: I think possibly.
Nathan Jones: They’ll be stackable or?
Glenn Meredith: Absolutely. Well, I have no idea.
Nathan Jones: Now these are stephanos not diadems right? Stephanos meaning they are given to us. Whereas diadems means it is the ruler. God wears the diadem, but we wear the stephanos.
Glenn Meredith: That’s correct.
Nathan Jones: Ok.
Glenn Meredith: That’s my opinion. There is a fourth crown that is talked about in the book of James for example it’s called the Crown of Life. That crown is given to those who have been tested and who have been tempted and yet they’ve remained faithful to the Lord. Revelation talks about even faithful even unto death and Jesus says, “I will give you the Crown of Life.”
Nathan Jones: So the martyrs get a special crown.
Glenn Meredith: Martyr’s Crown. And then in 1 Peter 5 it talks about a crown for shepherds of God’s flocks, a Pastors crown.
Nathan Jones: You’ll get a special crown.
Glenn Meredith: Yeah, for faithful pastors, yes. So, you have all these different crowns and as you pointed out I believe that certainly it will be possible for some people to be living faithfully for God and winning souls and maybe they’ll get multiple crowns. But I imagine we’ll get to Heaven one day and that we will see these people walking and they have these crowns on and we’ll go, “Well that person won souls for Christ. And that person gave their life, the Martyr’s Crown for Jesus Christ.” So there are distinctions.
Nathan Jones: Besides crowns what will they be wearing? Is there rewards based on say clothing, styles of clothing?
Glenn Meredith: I don’t know we might.
Nathan Jones: You hear about white robes, you know and I’m, “Wow that sounds–“
David Reagan: Well it says here, “To her, the Bride of Christ, is given fine linen bright and clean that will reflect the righteous acts of the Saints.” So there may be some sort of emblems on robes or whatever that would indicate different things that we did in service to the Lord. I just think it is just going to be all kinds of rewards that are going to be given out.
Glenn Meredith: You know you think about perhaps different levels of glory that are somehow revealed in us.
David Reagan: Yes.
Glenn Meredith: He talks about in 2 Corinthians 4 these light afflictions that are but for a moment are working for us and exceeding eternal weight of glory. Romans 8 I reckon the sufferings of this present life are not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed to us.
Nathan Jones: Amen.
Glenn Meredith: Then you have the Bible teaches that we are going to reign with Christ.
Nathan Jones: Yeah, a lot of people write into this ministry and they are like, “What are we going to be doing during the Millennial Kingdom? What does the Bible say is a reward for believers?”
David Reagan: Well, yes, some of the rewards are going to be given out before we get to the eternal state in the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ.
Glenn Meredith: Exactly.
David Reagan: He said, “I’ll put one over one city, one over five, one over ten.” So I think during the Millennial reign you’re going to have every person who is in a position of authority on planet earth will be a person in a glorified body and we’ll be reigning over those in fleshly bodies. So every mayor, every governor, every president, king whatever Jesus will be Kings of Kings and Lord of Lords in Jerusalem. It says that David will be in his glorified body the King of Israel. And then we’re going to be scattered all of the world to reign but we’re going to have degrees of reigning authority and that’s part of the reward.
Glenn Meredith: I think that’s correct. Then you also add to that in Matthew 6 Jesus talked about lay up treasures in Heaven. So you’ve got different degrees of treasure. First Timothy 6 Paul is exhorting those who are rich in this world and he says, “Exhort, or command them to be generous, and to be rich in good works so that they may lay up treasures in Heaven which is a firm foundation for the coming age.” So you’ve got these people in Heaven one day who are going to have different crowns. They’ve got perhaps different ways that the glory of God is revealed through them. They’ve got different authority that’s been given to them, delegated to them by the Lord Jesus Christ based on their faithfulness in this world in serving Him. You’ve got different amounts of treasure in Heaven. And then in addition to that this is astounding but in Matthew 5 for example Jesus says that some people in the kingdom will be called least in the kingdom and others will be called great in the kingdom. And he said those who do not obey God and who teach others to not obey will be called least in the Kingdom. Those who obey and teach others to obey will be called great. So, obviously some will be called least and some will be called great. Some have great treasures, some have little treasure or no treasure. Some have multiple crowns perhaps, some no crowns. So not everyone is going to be the same in Heaven there’s going to be distinction.
David Reagan: And incidentally with regard to those rewards I mentioned during the Millennium of degrees of reigning authority that will also carry over into the eternal state because we are told we are going to reign forever with the Lord Jesus Christ.
Glenn Meredith: Forever and ever.
David Reagan: So there is even going to be degrees of reigning authority in the eternal state.
Glenn Meredith: That’s exactly correct.
Nathan Jones: I liked what you said too about the glorified bodies that we’ll be in during the Millennial Kingdom that’s a form of reward that we will have a new, brand new body.
David Reagan: You better believe it.
Nathan Jones: But to me I think the most important is that we will dwell with our Heavenly Father forever.
Glenn Meredith: True.
Nathan Jones: I mean what a reward that God had to send His own Son to die to make that type of reward happen. To have fellowship with God like the Garden of Eden again forever. And to me that is the best. Who cares about my crown or not, I want to be God forever.
David Reagan: Well, another thing that occurs to me is that the Bible teaches that when you are born again that you are immediately given not only the indwelling of the Holy Spirit but the Holy Spirit gifts you in a supernatural way, you get some sort of supernatural gift. It may be where you’re talented, it may not be where you’re talented. For example I’ve seen singers who were great singers and when they became members of the Lord’s body He didn’t gift them there. They still are great singers but they could get up and sing the Lord’s Prayer and people applaud. Somebody who is gifted gets up and sings it and maybe doesn’t sing it perfectly but everybody is weeping at the end because they’re gifted by the Holy Spirit to touch people for Jesus. So we’re given gifts and we may be given additional gifts as we go along, and how do we use those gifts to advance the Kingdom? I think we are going to be judged on that. I gave you the gift of mercy how did you use it? I gave you the gift of administration how did you use it to advance my Kingdom? And along that line I think the Bible indicates that we going to be judged of the quantity of our works and the quality of our works and even the motivation of our works.
Glenn Meredith: That’s right.
David Reagan: I can imagine some person, world famous right now maybe a great television evangelist or somebody who is known all over the world and he stands before the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord says, “On the day that you were born again I gave you the gift of evangelism and you used it mightily to bring many people in the kingdom, but I knew your motivation. And your motivation was to get your picture on the front of Time Magazine and you did and so here is your reward, your picture of Time Magazine.”
Glenn Meredith: Yeah, exactly. Brother Dave I believe that is so important because I think that is where many Christians make the mistake. When you talk to Christians about rewards they often go, “Oh, no, no, no I’m not doing it for the reward.” Because they think that if their motive is to it for the reward that that disqualifies them. They misunderstand that Jesus in Matthew chapter 6 I believe it is He says, “Don’t do it for the praise of men.”
David Reagan: There you go.
Glenn Meredith: So the wrong motive is when I am doing these works so that people will look at me and say, “Isn’t he wonderful.” Then Jesus said that’s what wrong. But He says, “No, instead of praying in public where everybody thinks what a great prayer you are, go into your closet, pray in secret, your Father who sees in secret will reward you.” So Jesus says He’s going to reward you, go in there and do so He’ll reward you just don’t do it for the reward of men.
Nathan Jones: I think we’ll be Heaven and we’ll be surprised how some of the greatest names in teaching because of the lack of improper motive or whatnot creates a small crown. Whereas the little old lady no one knew about who filled the communion cups every weekend diligently will probably be staggering around Heaven with this massive crown.
David Reagan: There you go.
Glenn Meredith: Absolutely.
Nathan Jones: We’ll be surprised.
Glenn Meredith: He even says that on that day the least will be first, or the last will be first and the first shall be last. I think that is exactly right.
David Reagan: Well that is one of the reasons that I teach very strongly that people need to find out what their spiritual gifts are. And there are many ways to do that. I mean you can study the Word. You can talk to people who know you. You can talk to your pastor. You can take spiritual gift inventory tests to help you find out what are your gifts and use them to advance the Kingdom.
Glenn Meredith: Exactly.
David Reagan: Well, Glenn I know from the sermon that I heard you give that stirred me so much the part of it that really challenged me was the last part where you begin to talk about, will these crowns be temporary, handed to you and you just hand them back and that’s it, or will they be something that will be eternal in nature? So in just a moment I want to come back and discuss that.
Part 3
Nathan Jones: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy with our interview of Pastor Glenn Meredith on heavenly rewards.
David Reagan: Well, Glenn I want to kick off this section by just saying to you that the most fascinating part of your presentation that Sunday I heard you talk about heavenly rewards was the last section where you talked about whether or not these rewards would be something temporary or permanent. And the traditional teaching has always been that the rewards are very temporary that you receive them, you put them back at the feet of Jesus to honor Him and that’s it you walk away and that is the end of the rewards. Based I think primarily upon one scene in the book of Revelation 4 where it shows some fellows in Heaven who have some golden crowns and they put them at the feet of Jesus. So you didn’t share that view of it being temporary in nature and that was– really got me to thinking. So I want you to share with us your thinking about that.
Glenn Meredith: Well, and that had always sort of been my understanding. It was certainly was what I was taught, or at least what I kind of picked up through the years was that we would get these crowns perhaps if we’d live faithfully we would be given a crown perhaps at the Judgment Seat. But then very shortly thereafter there would be this great worship service there in Heaven, we’d take off the crown, we’d casted it at the feet of Jesus and then from that point on everything is just the same, we got nothing else.
Well as I was reading one day I’m looking for example at 1 Corinthians 9 where Paul is exhorting the Corinthians and believers to run this race to win this crown. And he says to them, “That the runners who run in the games run to get a crown that is temporary, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.” And so while it seems a little strange that his whole point there is don’t run for this temporary crown. Well if our crown, even our heavenly crown were temporary then that takes away some of the motivation I think of why we should strive for it.
But Paul says the opposite, he says, “You ought to run for this crown that will last forever.” You get over to 1 Peter 5 and he talks about the Crown of Glory that is given to faithful pastors and shepherds of the flock, and it says, “When the Chief Shepherd shall appear He will bring with Him a gift to you an unfading Crown of Glory.” That word unfading really means, perpetual, or forever and it’s the same word that is used earlier in 1 Peter where he’s talking about our inheritance in Heaven that is unfading and it is imperishable. And so I believe that the rewards are going to be permanent. I believe as you’ve already pointed out that this authority that we’re given to rule and reign is both in the Millennial Kingdom, but He also says that we will reign with Him forever, and ever. So I believe this authority is permanent.
David Reagan: What is wonderful to me is to think about the fact that we will have as he puts it the mind of Christ. I’m not sure what all that means, that’s a mighty big statement, but it says we’re going to have the mind of Christ. We’ll be in glorified bodies and that we will be in such a state that we will not be the least bit jealous, envious of any other person’s crown or any glory that is given to them. Instead we would want to go up and hug them and say, “I am so glad that you. It is so wonderful that you did all these wonderful things for the advancement of the kingdom.” Isn’t that wonderful to think of having an existence like that.
Glenn Meredith: Exactly. Well you think about how do you feel when your children or when someone that you love excels or does something that is honored? You are happy for them. Well, I think that’s how it’s going to be in eternity. We are going to love one another there, we are all part of the same family. And we are going to love one another there and I think that is exactly right. I believe rather than being jealous I think we are going to look and say, man I’m just so blessed by you.
David Reagan: I think in our fallen state right now it is hard to imagine that.
Nathan Jones: Yeah.
Glenn Meredith: Yeah.
David Reagan: Oh, man I’m just going to be consumed with jealously and envy.
Glenn Meredith: Yeah, that’s correct.
Nathan Jones: There’s a beautiful scene in the movie Chronicles of Narnia, and I think C.S. Lewis believes what you do that these crowns you keep, you use them as acts of worship you take them off and bow before the Lord but then you put them back on. There is one scene where the four children each get a crown and each get an area to rule and they are beautiful crowns they did such a good job in the movie. But you see them put them on again throughout what is the remainder of the movie. And we will continue to because we are all living examples of God’s workmanship through us, for eternal, we know we don’t get it then just give it to Him but that forever we are praising God based on the works that we did here. That’s a heavy burden to bear, but it is also a wonderful burden.
Glenn Meredith: And I really think what it all boils down to therefore that really what God says is that it really matters how we live our life now.
Nathan Jones: Yes, amen.
Glenn Meredith: And too many Christians I believe are just sort of passing through this world and not really intentionally trying to make a difference in the world. They are not using those spiritual gifts that God has given to them. They are not taking advantage of the opportunities that God lays before them. So, it is really important we get such a brief time, this life that we live is like a vapor that appears for a little while and vanishes away, and yet it has eternal ramifications. Not just where we’re going to spend eternity but really what our eternity is going to be like the reward that we will have. And I believe the service that will be performed for Christ there is all dependent upon how we live right now.
David Reagan: Well, I’m glad to hear you say that because I was going to ask you to wrap up this particular section by saying, “Well now what is the message?” Well you just gave the message. The message basically is that once you begin to believe in what the Bible really says about rewards and what it really says about good works you begin to be motivated even more than ever before to really get serious about being more than just a back pew Christian who sits there and absorbs and never does anything for the advancement of God.
Glenn Meredith: Exactly right. Exactly right.
David Reagan: Well, that is a tremendous message and I appreciate you sharing it with us.
Glenn Meredith: Thank you.
David Reagan: I remember the day that you delivered it I just got so excited. And then I wanted to put that together in a video album and found out that the camera didn’t work right that day.
Glenn Meredith: That’s exactly right.
David Reagan: So, anyway what we’re going to do though is we’re going to tell people in a few minutes how they can get a copy of this particular item which is entitled, Heaven: Its Nature and Meaning. And it contains three programs that we did about Heaven that people have always been enthralled by. Particularly one of them in there, “Will your Pet be in Heaven?” And we go into great detail about what all the Bible has to say about that and people just love to watch that program. In fact we have pets on the program. We even have a cat, and I don’t care for cats too much, but we had a cat so the cat lovers would be happy as well as the dog lovers. So we’ll be telling people in a few minutes how to get a copy of that.
Part 4
David Reagan: Well, Glenn I want to thank you so much for being our special guest. You have really been a blessing to us.
Glenn Meredith: Well, thank you brother, and I thank you for having me here today. It is so nice to get to meet you and your staff. And I would like to just take a moment to say to your viewers what a blessing you have been to me, my family, and our church that God led you and your sweet wife to join our Church. And sometimes people who watch programs like this they don’t get to be with the people up close and personal and I just want to say to your people, “He is the real deal.”
David Reagan: Well, thank you very much I appreciate that.
Nathan Jones: Praise the Lord. How can people get in touch with you? Do you mind looking into that camera and letting them know.
Glenn Meredith: You can contact me at our website at www.brookhavenchurch.com, and you can get in touch with us there, all our contact information is there on the website.
David Reagan: Well, once again I want to mention the video that we are going to tell you how to get in touch with–how to get a copy of and it is one that I am sure a lot of people really need to watch because most people think of Heaven as an ethereal place, disembodied spirits, floating around in a cloud playing a harp, worshiping forever, nothing very interesting to do. And this says, no, it’s for real, we are going to have bodies, we’re going to have crowns, we’re going to have meaningful things to do and so I encourage people to find out what Heaven is really going to be like according to the Word of God. Well, folks that’s our program for this week, I hope it’s been a blessing to you and I hope you will back with us next week the Lord willing. Until then this Dave Reagan speaking for myself and Nathan Jones saying, “Look up, be watchful for our redemption is drawing near.”